LOS ANGELES, November 9, 2004 - At 7:50 PM two armored tanks showed up at an anti-war protest in front of the federal building in Westwood. The tanks circled the block twice, the second time parking themselves in the street and directly in front of the area where most of the protesters were gathered. Enraged, some of the people attempted to block the tanks, but police quickly cleared the street. The people continued to protest the presence of the tanks, but about ten minutes the tanks drove off. It is unclear as to why the tanks were deployed to this location. Uploaded here is video from the event.<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"video\/quicktime","summary":"Tanks on the streets of LA","numcomment":311,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/tanks-on-la-streets.mov","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2004\/11\/118865.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":118868,"heading":"still image from video","article":".","author":".","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-11-11 07:31:21","modified":"2006-02-18 21:19:05","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/11\/tank.jpeg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/11\/tank.jpeg"}},{"id":118873,"heading":"Disturbing","article":"This is truly the most disturbing thing i've seen in.... Well, 8 days.\r\n\r\nAny secondary source on this at all? Even a blog would be good.\r\n\r\n","author":"T","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-11 12:33:30","modified":"2006-02-22 09:04:35","fileurl":""},{"id":118876,"heading":"bah","article":"Just watched the video. Damn I hate ANSWER rallies","author":"Jeremy Savage","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-11 14:40:07","modified":"2004-11-11 14:40:07","fileurl":""},{"id":118877,"heading":"Welcome to the police state.","article":"while the rest of the sheep remained safely on the sidewalk a few of us brave souls were willing to put our lives on the line to protect our right to desent. what will do you when the time comes? ","author":"Baton guy","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-11 15:51:59","modified":"2006-02-18 17:56:46","fileurl":""},{"id":118882,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"....yes, what a cost-effective way of dealing with a non-existant threat....\r\n\r\n....well, there is a housefly in my kitchen, can I get some republican idiot to send an Apache helicopter to dispatch it?\r\n\r\n....just send the bill to the taxpayer.....\r\n\r\n ","author":"KPC","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-11 17:43:05","modified":"2004-11-11 17:43:05","fileurl":""},{"id":118884,"heading":"not so fast","article":"cmon people... there was a hostage incident at the mexican consulate earlier that SAME day. \r\n\r\nthey are both federal buildings! THINK\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.latimes.com\/news\/local\/la-me-hostage10nov10,0,4899107.story?coll=la-home-headlines","author":"getreal","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-10 11:46:14","modified":"2006-03-06 02:13:11","fileurl":""},{"id":118885,"heading":"tanks but no tanks","article":"Im sure the tanks were very successful against the "rebels" who probably were long gone--typical guerrilla manoeuver: retreat and wait...the "coalition" will find that the enemy they defeated will make peculiar reappearances...","author":"cathytrione","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-10 11:49:10","modified":"2006-03-06 02:12:49","fileurl":""},{"id":118888,"heading":"Where's the video","article":"The video link doesn't work. Is this just crap<\/b> or is it for real?","author":"Just Insanity","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-11-10 11:51:19","modified":"2006-03-16 08:30:42","fileurl":""},{"id":118889,"heading":"WHY IS THE MOVIE GONE?","article":"WHY iS THE TANK MOVIE GONE?\r\n\r\n","author":"tamara","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-10 11:55:40","modified":"2006-03-09 20:38:12","fileurl":""},{"id":118893,"heading":"Citizen","article":"I wasn't there at the Tuesday night demonstration in Westwood, but I did do some follow-up investigation this morning about the two armored vehicles.\r\n\r\nTurns out the West Los Angeles Veterans Administration was having a Veterans Day parade and celebration this morning (Wednesday). I drove over and walked in to the WLA VA to look around at 10:50am.\r\n\r\nLots of marching middle school ROTC "cadets" (including 11-to-14-year-old boys and girls from Mt. Vernon Middle School all in US Army uniform, some shouldering parade "rifles") and a high school band and antique cars filled with VAFW members. And two USMC Striker armored vehicles complete with 6 or 7 Marines in fatigues and body armor giving junior high ROTC kids and adults tours of the vehicles.\r\n\r\nI talked to one Marine with one of the "Striker" vehicles. He told me they had driven the vehicles up from Camp Pendleton the night before (Tuesday) on the freeway. Getting off the 405 Freeway North taking the Wilshire East (instead of WEST to the VA) offramp, they would have passed Wilshire and Veteran where the anti-war rally was underway protesting the attack on Fallujah in Iraq.\r\n\r\nI asked him if he was "rolling around Westwood" Tuesday night. He said, "Yeah, and we drove past that anti-war demonstration. We was lost. We're not from L.A. We didn't know where this place (WLA VA) was. We were trying to find it."\r\n\r\n"Did you drive around the block twice?" I asked.\r\n\r\n"Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice."\r\n\r\nThere was more conversation, but that was the gist of it from the Marine side concerning the armored vehicles. For what it's worth.\r\n\r\nI've also been receiving emails from friends who were at the rally who tell me the LAPD officers said they had no idea why the Striker armored vehicles had shown up.","author":"Steve","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-10 12:00:59","modified":"2004-11-10 12:00:59","fileurl":""},{"id":118894,"heading":"OH Marine Strykers","article":"Heh I was thinking Army Strykers. The Marines use a completly different set of Strykers.","author":"David","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-10 12:04:06","modified":"2004-11-10 12:04:06","fileurl":""},{"id":118895,"heading":"N o Way Jose","article":"Don't the Police ususally deal with those sot of incidents? John Mc Clean on holiday I take it. DUH","author":"bananaman","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-10 12:04:35","modified":"2004-11-10 12:04:35","fileurl":""},{"id":118896,"heading":"Follow up on 2 USMC Striker armored vehicles at Westwood Federal Building","article":"I wasn't there at the Tuesday night demonstration in Westwood, but I did do some follow-up investigation this morning about the two armored vehicles.\r\n\r\nTurns out the West Los Angeles Veterans Administration was having a Veterans Day parade and celebration this morning (Wednesday). I drove over and walked in to the WLA VA to look around at 10:50am.\r\n\r\nLots of marching middle school ROTC "cadets" (including 11-to-14-year-old boys and girls from Mt. Vernon Middle School all in US Army uniform, some shouldering parade "rifles") and a high school band and antique cars filled with VAFW members. And two USMC Striker armored vehicles complete with 6 or 7 Marines in fatigues and body armor giving junior high ROTC kids and adults tours of the vehicles.\r\n\r\nI talked to one Marine with one of the "Striker" vehicles. He told me they had driven the vehicles up from Camp Pendleton the night before (Tuesday) on the freeway. Getting off the 405 Freeway going north, they would have passed Wilshire and Veteran where ANSWER had called a rally to protest the attack on Fallujah in Iraq.\r\n\r\nI asked him if he was "rolling around Westwood" Tuesday night. He said, "Yeah, and we drove past that anti-war demonstration. We was lost. We're not from L.A. We didn't know where this place (WLA VA) was. We were trying to find it."\r\n\r\n"Did you drive around the block twice?" I asked.\r\n\r\n"Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice."\r\n\r\nThere was more conversation, but that was the gist of it from the Marine side concerning the armored vehicles. For what it's worth.\r\n\r\nI've also been receiving emails from friends who were at Tuesday evening's Westwood demostration. They report that the LAPD officers said they had no idea why the two armored vehicles had appeared and then disappeared.","author":"Steve","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-10 12:09:43","modified":"2004-11-10 12:09:43","fileurl":""},{"id":118898,"heading":"Who's Got the Video?","article":"Anyone seen another source?","author":"Eggie","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:22:45","modified":"2006-02-23 17:21:14","fileurl":""},{"id":118899,"heading":"Anyone ever heard of the Posse Comitatus Act?","article":"
One of the first principles of freedom is that the military and the police are separate. Police are civilians, and their job is to police civilians. The military is for the protection of our borders. I'm not sure if these alleged tanks were used to police the event, but the story gives this impression. It's recommended that all Americans read the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878<\/A> as we are seeing an exploding police state nationwide - the military is training and working with civilian police on too many occasions.<\/P>","author":"Michael Boldin","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-11-12 00:23:52","modified":"2006-03-01 20:05:59","fileurl":""},{"id":118900,"heading":"Lost Armoured Vehicles","article":"Lost eh? Hey about that! And right where a protest was happening!\r\n\r\nHOW CONVIENENT!\r\n\r\nIt's called a psy op. Test the waters. See the public and media response to tanks on the street...before you know it whole battalions of the things will be getting lost as the natives grow more restless.\r\n\r\nLost? Give me a break.\r\n","author":"Brendon","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:25:19","modified":"2006-03-01 10:45:53","fileurl":""},{"id":118901,"heading":"Did the two tanks look like this one?","article":"Did the two tanks look like this one<\/a>?\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.usmc.mil\/marinelink\/image1.nsf\/lookup\/2004927155839?opendocument<\/a>","author":"Steve","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:29:59","modified":"2004-11-12 00:29:59","fileurl":""},{"id":118902,"heading":"Wow...","article":"This is totally amazing. You know, they had a lot of reporting on the protest on tv early in the evening, but there was no late coverage and certainly no mention of tanks.","author":"Andrew Murphy","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:33:09","modified":"2004-11-12 00:33:09","fileurl":""},{"id":118903,"heading":"Uh ril Uhmerican","article":"Baa-Baa-Demlib Sheep must be from the South. And proud of it, too, I bet. A perfect example of the phrase, "Ignorance is Bliss."\r\n","author":"Let's kill dumb people","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:35:16","modified":"2004-11-12 00:35:16","fileurl":""},{"id":118904,"heading":"Police State? "No Tanks!"","article":"I believe that this is the FIRST time tanks have been deployed against peaceful demonstrators in Los Angeles... this sharp escalation, so obviously meant to suppress free speech, may also be a precedent for the entire country. There was absolutely no reason or excuse to deploy tanks against a law abiding crowd... except to INTIMIDATE the populace.\r\n\r\nSomeone posting as 'Steve' dismissed the incident, saying it was part of a "West Los Angeles Veterans Administration Veterans Day Parade". Excuse me but... the demonstration was held on Nov. 9th, Veterans Day is Nov. 11th. 'Steve' also noted that "LAPD officers said they had no idea why the two armored vehicles had appeared and then disappeared." Do you really think the LAPD would be clueless about TANKS rolling down Westwood Blvd.? Someone else posted that there was a "hostage incident at the Mexican consulate earlier that SAME day"... well then, why not post tanks in front of EVERY government building or foreign consulate in LA?, come on... TANKS were deployed in front of an antiwar demonstration and you dummies are making up excuses!\r\n\r\nThose tanks were parked there for one reason only... to show you whose 'boss' and what's in store for you if you step out of line.\r\n\r\nYes, you live in a 'free' country where you may exercise your 'rights' to freedom of assembly and freedom of speech... but you must first face tanks to do so! How many American citizens will be brave enough to claim their rights in the face of such force?\r\n","author":"Patriot","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:42:55","modified":"2004-11-12 00:42:55","fileurl":""},{"id":118905,"heading":"OFF! OFF! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!","article":"Nonsense replied Alice.\r\n\r\nLook, let's put the Fascist Republicans on one side and the Communist Democrats on the other, let them go at it, and hope there are no survivors.\r\n\r\nThe World would done a favor.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Jesuit","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:48:46","modified":"2004-11-12 00:48:46","fileurl":""},{"id":118907,"heading":"Ohio State","article":"Anybody that thinks this is no big deal must not remember Ohio. The problem is that the same morons that support bu$h believe nothing bad happened at Ohio State either. ","author":"steve","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 00:51:45","modified":"2006-02-23 17:21:29","fileurl":""},{"id":118909,"heading":"They were 'lost'? With GPS?","article":"The 'lost' explanation sounded plausible...til I thought of GPS positioning and route-finding. Why wouldn't such vehicles have that when it's already an option in many common-or-garden-variety cars? (I'm not trying to impeach the author who offered the explanation; it might be the correct one, in which case other questions arise)","author":"Mairead","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:03:17","modified":"2004-11-12 01:03:17","fileurl":""},{"id":118910,"heading":"STATEMENT FROM PROTEST ORGANIZERS","article":"STATEMENT FROM PROTEST ORGANIZERS\r\n\r\nHundreds Protest Attack on Fallujah and U.S. Militarism.\r\nA.N.S.W.E.R. Demo Draws Activists and Military Tanks\r\n\r\nHundreds of protestors converged on the Federal building in Westwood last night to demonstrate against the U.S. attack on Fallujah. Colorful signs, banners and placards lined the busy streets while the crowd militantly chanted "George Bush, we say no - the occupation has got to go!" and "The people of Fallujah are under attack. What do we do? Stand up, fight back!" \r\n\r\nThe A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition initiated last night's emergency demonstration. It was one of many coordinated actions that took place in cities across the nation protesting the new U.S. invasion of Fallujah. Activists and leaders from various progressive organizations attended, including members of Free Palestine Alliance, CAIR, Coalition for World Peace, Women in Black, U.S. Labor Against War, NION, ADC-LA\/OC and more.\r\n\r\nAs the demonstration was winding up, two large U.S. military tanks drove past the protestors on Wilshire Boulevard two times. The second time, the tanks stopped directly in front of a group of about 50 protestors for nearly five minutes. Police attempted to provoke a confrontation with the crowd, \r\nbut the people resisted. Instead, they chanted "Bring the Troops Home Now!" \r\n\r\nWe do not know where the tanks came from, where they were going or why they drove past the demonstration. It is an outrage to see military tanks rolling through the streets of Los Angeles.\r\n\r\nIf the tanks were meant to intimidate us, they failed. The resolve of the protestors to fight against the occupation was strengthened by their presence. The protestors stuck together and chanted loudly until the tanks sped away and the police dispersed. \r\n\r\nThe presence of military tanks on Wilshire highlights the need to step up the fight against U.S. militarism. The U.S. is the most highly militarized nation on the planet with a defense budget of over $700 billion. We must increase the struggle against war, occupation, racism and all forms of bigotry in the U.S and abroad.\r\n\r\nThe A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition has unveiled an action plan to deepen the struggle and further unite the antiwar movement so that it grows even stronger in the months to come. Please join us in building these exciting upcoming events in Los Angeles:\r\n\r\nPROTEST VIGIL TO BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!\r\nSat, Dec 18, 7 pm\r\nHollywood & Highland (NW corner)\r\n\r\nCOUNTER-INAUGURAL DEMONSTRATION\r\nThurs, Jan 20, 2005, 6 pm\r\nWestwood Federal Building (Wilshire & Veteran)\r\n\r\nMASS MARCH AND RALLY - GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION\r\nSat, March 19, 2005, 12 noon\r\nLocation TBA\r\nLos Angeles\r\n\r\nFor more info or to volunteer call 323-464-1636\r\nhttp:www.answerla.org\r\nanswerla@answerla.org","author":"ANSWER","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:05:24","modified":"2004-11-12 01:05:24","fileurl":""},{"id":118911,"heading":"ms","article":"God bless those protestors , america is behind you. Arizona is behind you , we are fighting our own war with the illegal invassion. Bush is a madman , and he is destroying this country. I am a Republican and a conservative and I never voted for the dictator , don't blame us , we have no idea who voted for him , well ,yes we do , the election was a fraud and the final part of the cuop has taken place. Stay in there if they want a battle let it begin here. We have the right to protest and protest we will.","author":"Ruth Slater","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:07:16","modified":"2004-11-12 01:07:16","fileurl":""},{"id":118912,"heading":"fresca","article":""Look, let's put the Fascist Republicans on one side and the Communist Democrats on the other, let them go at it, and hope there are no survivors. "\r\n\r\nFine by me.","author":"fine with me","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:09:24","modified":"2004-11-12 01:09:24","fileurl":""},{"id":118913,"heading":"Rev.","article":"Was @ Fed. bldg. on eve of 9th...\r\nCalling out words of war protest, several of the soldiers gave us the thumbs up. One person gave them literature on finding help to get out as they seemed to have an empathy for the cries of the crowd.\r\nBUT THEN an utterly moronic woman started screaming at them that they were murderers and baby killers and other foul verbal attacks. I gently shared with her the fact that the three men in the tank in front of us appeared supportive, then she screamed at me even more hateful sentiments...\r\nSo, like, didn't we learn anything from Viet Nam, mostly in regard to the importance of the human beings that are soldiers who have become caught in the middle of the nightmare? So many of the kids in the military today come from financial disadvantage and this was a way to be able to afford an education.\r\nTRUST ME, those KIDS IN THE TANKS are most likely scared to hell about what they are about to face.\r\nPeople irrationally screaming hideous accusations at soldiers are not helping, but are rather hurting the "cause". It isn't the soldiers that should be hated, go after our leadership with your words of anger, go after those who compel little boys to be forced into acts of war. ...Too bad someone doesn't ship Bush's daughters off to the front lines, wouldn't that make us all much more trusting of the President's resolve in sending other people's children to be killed?! \r\n","author":"Daniels","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:09:53","modified":"2004-11-12 01:09:53","fileurl":""},{"id":118914,"heading":"President","article":"Oh my god, that is the fakest tank I've ever seen. What you have their is a mocked up tank made by protestors, and then someone shot an extremely closed in shot with a camera. What is there, 3 people in the photo? That is a fake photo folks.\r\n\r\nThe same tactic was used during protests against the Vietnam war. Protestors would get 10 or 15 people to scream loudly and pack tightly as if they had no room, and then they would only take film from close in, and then claim there were hundreds of protestors that showed up when there were not.\r\n\r\nThat is a shameful piece of BS. No offense to any of you, it probably would fool most people. But I BUILD tanks, including Strykers and APVs and other vehicles for the US military, that is a fake POS folks, somebody should be ashamed of this ruse.","author":"American Rationalist Party","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:12:47","modified":"2004-11-12 01:12:47","fileurl":""},{"id":118915,"heading":"Patriot & other steve: just telling you what I did, saw, asked, and heard","article":"Hi. \r\n\r\nI'm not "dismissing" anything. I'm just telling you what I did, saw, asked, and heard this morning in West Los Angeles. \r\n\r\nWant to verify if there was a large Veterans Day parade and celebration at the WLA VA this Wednesday morning on 11\/10\/2004? There are ways to do that. For example....\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.gla.med.va.gov\/GLAcalendar\/calendarcode.cfm \r\n\r\nDo I think the US Marine Corps should be driving Light Armored Vehicles on the 405 Freeway or Wilshire Blvd.? NO. Very bad idea to begin with. \r\n\r\nDo I think their appearance at an anti-war rally whatever the reason is intimidating, worrisome, and not to be accepted? YES.\r\n\r\nDo I think the present US administration represents a clear and continuing danger to peace and democracy at home and abroad? YES.\r\n\r\nDo I think we need all the accurate and verified information we can get to devise effective strategy and actions? YES. \r\n\r\nWas locating those two armored vehicles in West Los Angeles all that difficult? No. I did after my Wednesday morning class.\r\n\r\nLike I wrote before... take my information for what it's worth. But please don't make me into a CIA psyops expert. That's wasted energy. \r\n\r\nThanks.\r\n\r\nIn peace and solidarity...","author":"Steve1","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:16:15","modified":"2004-11-12 01:16:15","fileurl":""},{"id":118916,"heading":"Irony lost on the plebs","article":"The irony of coalition forces, specifically American using a Bathist army to attack Fallujah is lost on the plebs. \r\n\r\nWhy don't we just get their commander and chief to lead them, I'm sure Saddam Hussein would stop them from being an uncontrollable rabble.\r\n\r\nWe could also get Osama Bin Laden and Abu Baka Bashir to do secret missions to thwart those ungrateful Iraqis, oop! I mean insurgency.\r\n","author":"Matt Hamon","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:21:49","modified":"2004-11-12 01:21:49","fileurl":""},{"id":118917,"heading":"Halo 2","article":"Does anyone else think the guy in the turret is dressed like Master Chief from Halo? Given that the tank is an obvious fake, and Halo 2 was released Nov 9, I'm laughing right now at this "story".","author":"Syphoon","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:26:24","modified":"2004-11-12 01:26:24","fileurl":""},{"id":118918,"heading":"Right on, "Rev" Daniels","article":"\r\nAgain, I wasn't there Tuesday, but if his report is accurate, then I couldn't agree more with Daniels. Really and effectively demonstrating peace takes discipline and brains and creativity and maturity and the presence and flexibility to turn opportunities to advantage, not just opposition. \r\n\r\nWe're all learning together.\r\n\r\n>>Daniels wrote:\r\n\r\nCalling out words of war protest, several of the soldiers gave us the thumbs up. One person gave them literature on finding help to get out as they seemed to have an empathy for the cries of the crowd.\r\n\r\nBUT THEN an utterly moronic woman started screaming at them that they were murderers and baby killers and other foul verbal attacks. I gently shared with her the fact that the three men in the tank in front of us appeared supportive, then she screamed at me even more hateful sentiments...\r\nSo, like, didn't we learn anything from Viet Nam, mostly in regard to the importance of the human beings that are soldiers who have become caught in the middle of the nightmare? So many of the kids in the military today come from financial disadvantage and this was a way to be able to afford an education.\r\nTRUST ME, those KIDS IN THE TANKS are most likely scared to hell about what they are about to face.\r\nPeople irrationally screaming hideous accusations at soldiers are not helping, but are rather hurting the "cause". It isn't the soldiers that should be hated, go after our leadership with your words of anger, go after those who compel little boys to be forced into acts of war. .","author":"Steve1","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:27:39","modified":"2004-11-12 01:27:39","fileurl":""},{"id":118920,"heading":"Posse Comitatus","article":"The Posse Comitatus Act, mentioned by Michal Boldin above, no longer means anything. While it originally forbade the military to be involved in civilian law enforcement, Ronald Reagan ammended it for the ridiculous "war on drugs". He effectively adding three words to it: \r\nunless ordered to.\r\n\r\nPosse Comitatus is now nothing more than a toilet paper smoke screen - there are no protections left that I am aware of to prevent us from a full blown totalitarian police state. \r\nCertainly not the morality of those running the show these days.\r\n","author":"Thom","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:32:52","modified":"2004-11-12 01:32:52","fileurl":""},{"id":118921,"heading":"What happened to the tank video","article":"Can someone direct me to where the video went to.\r\n\r\nI can not access it from my computer.\r\n\r\nthanks ","author":"RD","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:35:39","modified":"2004-11-12 01:35:39","fileurl":""},{"id":118922,"heading":"Lost LAVs","article":"Hey guys. Some people aren't going to be convinced that this was NOT an attempt to stifle expression, but this sounded fishy to me from the start. \r\n\r\nThursday is Veteran's Day and today is the USMCs 229th birthday. \r\n\r\nThe vehicles in question are LAV-25s, not Strykers or Coyotes. They're operated exclusively by the USMC.\r\n\r\nMilitary vehicles don't have route-finding GPS like a new Lexus. Military systems are generally far, far behind civilian systems. The primary processor in the F-22, for example, is about as powerful as an old 486. It takes years to develope these vehicles and they've got to commit to an operating system pretty early and go ahead and build it. The primary issue military GPS is still the old PLGR system from the mid-90s. No Marine LAV has a system up front programmed with maps of downtown LA.\r\n\r\nIf they were going to use armored vehicles for crowd suppression, the LAPD has V-100s and there are Army National Guard units with armor closer than Camp Pendleton, the nearest Marine base.\r\n\r\nTempest in a teapot, fellas, it's not to-the-barricades-with-your-Molotov-cocktails-time yet. Just some lost Marines.","author":"slowroll","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:43:18","modified":"2004-11-12 01:43:18","fileurl":""},{"id":118924,"heading":"LA VA Parade details","article":"Wednesday\r\nNov 10\r\n10:00 a.m.-\r\n12:00p.m.\r\nVA Greater Los Angeles Veterans Day\r\nParade\r\nVA West Los Angeles\r\nFor Info call (310) 478-\r\n3711\r\nVA West Los Angeles\r\n11301 Wilshire Blvd.\r\nLos Angeles, CA\r\nHospital Line","author":"Xmas","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 01:47:20","modified":"2004-11-12 01:47:20","fileurl":""},{"id":118942,"heading":"Repost of video","article":".","author":".","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"video\/quicktime","created":"2004-11-12 02:02:17","modified":"2006-03-01 10:47:45","fileurl":"\/home\/httpd\/la\/website\/uploads\/tanks-on-la-streets.mov"},{"id":118954,"heading":"some input","article":"A fire team can shoot out of the gun holes as this puppy does doughnuts on your new lawn.\r\nThese are wheeled (8) armor vehicles, not treaded. They are for urban and field use and they can sport a 130 mm gun. I have also seen the mock ups of Russian BMPs fitted with General Motors turrets and chain guns. I hope they solved that resonance rate of fire problem... \r\nThey should have been deployed by a carrier to destination. If they were for parade purposes. Reason being is that they are not freeway scooters and they are labor intensive service\/maintenance duty wise.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 02:08:09","modified":"2004-11-12 02:08:09","fileurl":""},{"id":118955,"heading":"consider this","article":"before you call someone dumb. please, make sure you spell things correctly, use words in the right places, and insert spaces.\r\n\r\nthats all. ","author":"the party we came for","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 02:16:07","modified":"2004-11-12 02:16:07","fileurl":""},{"id":118957,"heading":"reply to Rev post","article":"I agree with Daniels\u2019 Rev post about not blaming the soldiers and learning from what was done to Vietnam vets. Soldiers don\u2019t run the war, and the generals who do are carrying out directives from the current administration. It absolutely is important to be clear about what you are protesting and then direct it at someone who\u2019s in a position to do something about it, or at least in a position to correctly take blame. Especially if you\u2019re delivering your protest at shriek level, as the woman in his post was described as doing. Aiming venom at someone who isn\u2019t in charge isn't going to change anything, and doesn\u2019t really accomplish anything, except potentially lose people who might otherwise be on your side of the issue. ","author":"dkdale","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 02:18:20","modified":"2013-11-11 00:31:34","fileurl":""},{"id":118958,"heading":"So it begins...","article":"So it begins...","author":"George Rosenbaum","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 02:25:41","modified":"2004-11-12 02:25:41","fileurl":""},{"id":118962,"heading":"Capt. America: Seig Heil!","article":"Captain America: Seig heil, mein fuhrer! Let the killing begin!","author":"buffy","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 03:01:31","modified":"2004-11-12 03:01:31","fileurl":""},{"id":118964,"heading":"Screaming at soldiers and stopping tanks","article":" Like a couple of people have said, screaming at soldiers does nothing except make the soldiers think we're against them. They go back and tell their friends what jerks we were, etc, etc.\n\n BUT, to the person who criticized those who blocked the tanks' path: yes, those people risked very little in doing so, but for staying on the sidelines, congratulations on risking absolutly nothing for your beliefs (if you were even there).\n\n","author":"proberts","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 03:07:34","modified":"2004-11-12 03:07:34","fileurl":""},{"id":118965,"heading":"Rev.","article":"A post script:\r\nAfter I tried to share with my fellow female to have compassion for the soldiers who gave us the thumbs up, and she then lit into me with her venom, a man in the crowd re-acted in suit and began screaming at the soldiers with the same hostility... then another, then another; it started a wildfire of hate amongst a portion of the crowd and caused a sadness in the eyes of the boy\/soldier in the rear tank, possibly even some fear of us...\r\nHow sad. \r\nHow sad.\r\n\r\n","author":"Daniels","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 03:14:15","modified":"2004-11-12 03:14:15","fileurl":""},{"id":118967,"heading":"Mr","article":"Listen ppl, I know you americans rightly don't like foreigners (even aussies like me in a country that you basically own) telling you what to think.... but.... if you can't even decide if they were real tanks in a real street posing a real threat, then i would suggest strongly that that game is already won. just roll over and play dead for the nice republican commissars now please. and try to look ugly for the FOX news coverage. thanks.\r\n\r\n","author":"Author","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 03:30:23","modified":"2004-11-12 03:30:23","fileurl":""},{"id":118969,"heading":"Cali is 10 years ahead of the rest of the nation","article":"Is this what the rest of us have to look forward to? Do I smell a civil war along party lines? Such is life in the new Amerika!!!\r\n\r\npr","author":"poor richard","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 03:37:21","modified":"2004-11-12 03:37:21","fileurl":""},{"id":118973,"heading":"Tank Repellent","article":"I've read that gasoline and Quaker Instant Oatmeal in a (glass) Perrier bottle is pretty good tank repellent.","author":"anarchist","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 04:07:26","modified":"2004-11-12 04:07:26","fileurl":""},{"id":118975,"heading":"Something to prepare for...","article":"If the picture proves fraud it won't be too long before you see the real thing. ","author":"Eddie V.","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 04:29:12","modified":"2004-11-12 04:29:12","fileurl":""},{"id":118982,"heading":"please calm yo ass down","article":"Those were not TANKS, those where light armored vehicles LAVs or APCs (armored personel carriers) some police tactical units have one or two of these. http:\/\/www.fas.org\/man\/dod-101\/sys\/land\/lav-25.htm These were probably national guardsman out for a joyride (it's probably near a national guard armory)\r\n\r\nyou guys\/gals gotta practice your armored vehicle identification flash cards","author":"intel","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 04:52:07","modified":"2004-11-12 04:52:07","fileurl":""},{"id":118984,"heading":"How about Intimidation","article":"What do police need LAVs for in this situation? Intimidation. You know what intimidation is? It is an effort to curtail freedom of speech not to mention driving a tank (or parading a military unit) into an area of protest is a violation of the right of assembly. So you can try to distract from the issue by quibbling about details all you want, the facts speak for themselves.","author":"Jerzy","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 05:04:49","modified":"2004-11-12 05:04:49","fileurl":""},{"id":118985,"heading":"thermite make good repellent","article":"But is not safe so do not use without proper super vision by trained and qualified individuals. Soap suds work well with wheeled vehicles as do bee bees. Armor without infantry is fool hardy. ","author":"Greasy sock","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 05:18:48","modified":"2004-11-12 05:18:48","fileurl":""},{"id":118992,"heading":"Canadianguy","article":"The Canadian Government has decided to annex California. We have sent 3 of our 10 armored vehicles in to enforce discipline. If there is any dissent Celine Dion will sing the theme from Titanic on all radio stations until submission is complete. Get used to poutine and back bacon people, we've had enough and we're taking over. Also, we know how to swear in french.","author":"kobrien","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 05:56:15","modified":"2004-11-12 05:56:15","fileurl":""},{"id":118994,"heading":"OMG GOVERNMENT OMG FREEDOM","article":"Far to much tinfoil in this thread.","author":"Person","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 06:15:13","modified":"2004-11-12 06:15:13","fileurl":""},{"id":118996,"heading":"Info on the vehicle...","article":"The vehicle shown in this video is a General Dynamics Stryker MGS (Mobile Gun System). Read how this puppy is equiped:
\r\n"The Stryker Mobile Gun System variant consists of the basic vehicle with a General Dynamics Land Systems fully stabilized shoot-on-the-move Low Profile Turret. The turret is armed with a M68A1E4 105mm cannon with muzzle brake and an M2 0.50 calibre commander's machine gun. The Stryker Mobile Gun System can fire 18 rounds of 105mm main gun ammunition, 400 rounds of 0.50 calibre ammunition and 3,400 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition. Curtiss-Wright Corp's Vista Controls supplies the fully automated ammunition loading and replenishing system." <\/i>
\r\nMy only question, why in the hell would you need to deploy that much fire power to a small war protest? The answer of course is they didn't need to. Then why did they do it? Simple: Displays of overwhelming force are designed to suppress political dissent. It's been going on for hundreds of years. We just didn't think we would see this specific type of display on American soil designed to intimidate American voters. Well, I guess that's a police state for you. Get used to it, there's alot more where that came from.
My source for the Stryker information.<\/a>","author":"fred in phx","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-11-12 06:18:10","modified":"2004-11-12 06:18:10","fileurl":""},{"id":118997,"heading":"infoshop discussion","article":"http:\/\/www.infoshop.org\/inews\/stories.php?story=04\/11\/10\/0844742","author":"chicagoan","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-11-12 06:23:45","modified":"2004-11-12 06:23:45","fileurl":""},{"id":118999,"heading":"Tank Deployed to AntiWar Rally","article":"Story is also at www.DemWatch.blogspot.com and www.MyDD.com","author":"Debi White","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 06:27:34","modified":"2004-11-12 06:27:34","fileurl":""},{"id":119001,"heading":"none","article":"Those weren't 'tanks' they were Marine APCs. They were obviously on their way to another location and crossed paths with the protest. Apparently a lot conspiratorial overreactors seem to think it was planned. The Marines on the other hand looked befuddled about the whole thing. ","author":"none","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 06:35:16","modified":"2004-11-12 06:35:16","fileurl":""},{"id":119004,"heading":"Not a Mobile Gun System","article":"The vehicles at the protest weren't Mobile Gun Systems<\/a>, so the complaint about "why so much fire power" isn't really valid. As to whether the Marines were "deployed against protesters," I wouldn't call driving past on Wilshire a "show of force."\r\n\r\nRespectfully,\r\n\r\nAllan in SF","author":"Allan In SF","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 06:58:28","modified":"2004-11-12 06:58:28","fileurl":""},{"id":119005,"heading":"why the tanks?","article":" Why the tanks?\n \nSuch an over kill, all the wasted fuel to drive them there,wasted man power and time spent all for a handful of unarmed protesters,\nbut then it isn't their money they are wasting it is ours,we pay for all their childlish reactions to popcorn fart protests like they were on the front lines in Iraq or something.\nThis whole situation sucks big time!! \n\n Zed.","author":"Zed","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-11-12 07:00:17","modified":"2004-11-12 07:00:17","fileurl":""},{"id":119006,"heading":"Many of you people are idiots","article":"It's funny that in the vid, the protestors are screaming "bring the troops home now". Yet those troops were right there in front of them. It's also quite funny that whenever Liberals see military men and women, they lash out against them.\r\n\r\nStop pretending you give a hoot about "the troops". You don't. \r\n\r\n","author":"octavian","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 07:05:40","modified":"2004-11-12 07:05:40","fileurl":""},{"id":119007,"heading":"fake tank","article":">Oh my god, that is the fakest tank I've ever seen. \r\n\r\nI downloaded the video and you can see two tanks. They are very real! So much for these self proclaimed experts that "know" photos have been faked. Buddy go to the top of the page and watch the video. Then tell me your "expert" opinion. \r\n\r\nThat being said, these tank do not seem to be there for the protest. If they were it was a half ass way to do it. Parking them next to police cars across the street would have been more menacing. ","author":"xx","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 07:13:20","modified":"2004-11-12 07:13:20","fileurl":""},{"id":119010,"heading":"Robo Cop Response","article":"I a Non Commissioned Officer that was in the so-called tanks, which to be correct they are Light Armored Vehicles, I would just like to let everyone that has read your article know, we were not sent out in response of any protest. I do believe that in this country we all have the right to gather peacefully and voice our opinions. I take great pride in that, why else would I join the very thing that ensures us of that right. I mean the US Marines who have been safe guarding this nation from all enemies that would attempt to take those very rights the group last night was exercising. I would just like to add that there is nothing wrong with protesting a war you feel is wrong, but there is something very wrong, when during your protest of that war to wish harm on those young men and women who have sworn an oath to protect you and to make it so you can go out a voice your opinion. I think it is amazing how so many people protest us for doing our jobs. Did any of you know that in Iraq before we were there they would not gather to voice their dislike of Saddam policies do you think it because they like the policies... or maybe because they knew that if they did protest him tanks would show up and it wouldn\u2019t be because they took the wrong turn off the highway and need to find there way to a celebration of freedom, and to honor those men and women who serve the very people who protest them. They would be there to, an I am sorry to say, kill them. Well not in this country, not on my watch. So, please voice your opinions yell them out, but in the future don\u2019t jump to conclusions, and please for safety reasons don\u2019t jump in front a tank, or any type of armored vehicle it just not safe or very smart. I also hope that you would support your troops we would prefer to be home, but we don\u2019t leave until our job is done and done right because then the deaths suffered on both side are for nothing.\r\nI really hope that every who reads this will take the true meaning of my response. Which is I love this country, I love the people of this great place, I love the liberties we have, and I would fight against all who tried to take those liberties from us whether it be some rouge nation or if it where right here. We are not your enemy we are your shield we lay our lives down so you may be free.\r\nThank You \r\n ","author":"Joe Palacios","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-11-12 07:36:13","modified":"2013-11-11 00:31:38","fileurl":""},{"id":119011,"heading":"Mr.","article":"Wait, a second. wasn't this the same day as that Mexican standoff at the Mexican consulate? That is on Wilshire and MacArthur park, maybe the APCs were on their way back from that situation. I heard on NPR that they had armored vehicles at that incident.","author":"David Jordan","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 07:36:53","modified":"2004-11-12 07:36:53","fileurl":""},{"id":119013,"heading":"more about the Tanks","article":"These do not have shooting ports, none of them have 130mm that is bigger than what is on a Abarams Tank.\r\nthere are other variants \r\na Anti-Tank with Tows \r\na Mortor with 81 mm\r\na Logistics with nothing\r\na Communications agan no main weapon system","author":"LAV Marine","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 07:48:51","modified":"2004-11-12 07:48:51","fileurl":""},{"id":119014,"heading":"robocop 2","article":"thanks for the explanation, you guys looked lost, the cops looked kinda shocked too, and you werent putting up any aggresive signs the only aggression I saw was from the protesters who wanted to bring the troops home (if they cared for troops why did they lash out at you?) this is what the friggin left needs to understand it's stupid shit like this that turns people off to our movement. it takes more than just saying 'oh soldiers are just mindless robots'... the fact that this nco is on la indymedia is kinda cool to begin with.\r\n\r\nwell i think everyone is kinda in an edgy state because of the elections\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"intel","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 07:54:26","modified":"2004-11-12 07:54:26","fileurl":""},{"id":119015,"heading":"Tian An Men Square in Los Angeles?!","article":"Wow, I only thought Chinese goverment was the only one that sends tanks and troops to confront demostrators. \r\n\r\nI did not realize Los Angeles has became the next "Tian An Men" Square!\r\n\r\n","author":"tian","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 07:56:25","modified":"2004-11-12 07:56:25","fileurl":""},{"id":119018,"heading":"military does NOT "defend freedom"","article":"i would like to address this myth. the military, militarism, glorification of the military, military spending, and so on *do not* in any way, shape or form defend or support "freedom" (unless your idea of freedom is the shit we have now in the u.s.)\r\n\r\nthink about it: times of war are precisely those times where public debate, dissent, and individual liberty are most restricted. wars send poor people form one country to kill poor people in another country so a tiny group of people could benefit. there hasn't been a single goddamn war fought by the u.s. that has defended anybody's "freedom." what freedom was defended in 1898 by slaughtering filipinos and taking over cuba? what freedom was defended by dropping atomic bombs on civilians? what freedom was defended destroying entire societies and ecosystems in southeast asia, killing 5 million of its people, because vietnam wanted to be independent from colonialism? when has the u.s. military brought freedom to anyone, mcuh less its own citizens? i think the strongest argument you could make is world war 2, which gets hyped up and propagandized as the "good war" so that all future wars can be compared to it and thus justified. but the u.s. could ahve easily taken steps before that war ever broke out to avoid it from ever happening. study what the u.s.'s response was to fascism in spain in the 1930's. study what the u.s. had to say about hitler in his early years in power, calling him a "miracle" for his anti-union and pro-business policies.\r\n\r\nthis is not to insult people who are forced into the military because they ahve no other choice to get a job or pay for school, or because they are brainwashed into believing this patriotic bullshit. but we need to see the real issue behind u.s. military intervention, which is, and always has been, imperialism, not to defend anybody's "freedom."\r\n\r\nif you want to know whay we have most of the "freedoms" we have, it's because ordinary, poor, marginalized people organized themselves, put their bodies on the line, and got in the streets to demand change. don't ever forget that. the concept that our freedoms and rights are benevolently ahnded down from above, and that the military protects them, is one of the most violent barriers to real social change.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n"War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. \r\n\r\nThere isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism. \r\n\r\nIt may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. \r\n\r\nI suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service. \r\n\r\nI helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. \r\n\r\nDuring those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."\r\n\r\n- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n"The most violent element in society is ignorance." \r\n\r\n-Emma Goldman\r\n\r\n","author":"@","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:13:45","modified":"2004-11-12 08:13:45","fileurl":""},{"id":119019,"heading":"train them to use "mapquest"","article":"These kids need to be trained to use "mapquest." You can search for it on the web. It's very high tech, just like the web.","author":"more rational","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:19:42","modified":"2004-11-12 08:19:42","fileurl":""},{"id":119020,"heading":"pissed","article":"this country will be at civil war within a year. the winds are blowing. \r\n\r\ndo you know which side you're going to be on??\r\n ","author":"pissed","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:21:30","modified":"2004-11-12 08:21:30","fileurl":""},{"id":119021,"heading":"joe palacio","article":"maybe you should ask the reagan administration why they supported saddam hussein when he was at his worse. so much for the u.s. being concerned with "freedom."\r\n\r\n","author":"@","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:24:11","modified":"2004-11-12 08:24:11","fileurl":""},{"id":119022,"heading":"pissed","article":"why dont you shut your stupid ass mouth, nazi. are you pleased to see the military at all? \r\n\r\nfascist!\r\n\r\n","author":"pissed","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:24:39","modified":"2004-11-12 08:24:39","fileurl":""},{"id":119023,"heading":"pissed","article":"NOT YOU JOE...that last post was NOT in response to your post. that post was meant for some nazi warmonger waaaay earlier. \r\n\r\nyou made a great point about that asshole reagan.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"pissed","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:27:18","modified":"2004-11-12 08:27:18","fileurl":""},{"id":119024,"heading":"Mexican Consulate is NOT a Federal Bldg","article":"To the person who commented that the Mexican Consulate is a federal building..consulates are sovereign property, technically belonging to the country it houses. In the case of the Mexican Consulate, officially the property it sits on is considered Mexican land and law enforcement officials need the country's permission before entering. It is NOT a federal building.","author":"Double G","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:38:19","modified":"2004-11-12 08:38:19","fileurl":""},{"id":119025,"heading":"Uncertain","article":"Um, I'm not sure about whether or not "Steve" has a valid argument, but according to the California Department of Veterans Affairs, there *was* a Veterans Day parade today, Wednesday 10, which would match Steve's story. \r\n\r\nwww.cdva.ca.gov\/news\/vetsday2004.pdf\r\n\r\nIt's possible that Steve found out about the parade and created the story to match up with the calendar, and it's possible that the tanks really were there for the sake of intimidation, but it's also possible that Steve's story is true.\r\n\r\nWhile I don't like the idea of military being used to quell protest, I don't really believe that they'd choose to interrupt yet another protest at the Westwood Federal Building. Big deal. What good would it do? Protests at that building are a dime a dozen; you never even know what they're protesting anymore, but it's always something. For what little it's worth, I didn't see anything about it on the news, and whether or not the national outlets would pick it up, the local news stations would definitely be out there to scope out tanks if they were of significance. UPN and KTLA wouldn't pass it up over politics; it's a STORY. ","author":"Uncertain","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:53:17","modified":"2004-11-12 08:53:17","fileurl":""},{"id":119026,"heading":"Mexican Consulate","article":"Furthermore the article on the Mexican Consulate incident states that it happened Tuesday morning, so if the tanks really were trying to find the Consulate as implyed above they were at least 10 hours late.","author":"ame","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:54:00","modified":"2004-11-12 08:54:00","fileurl":""},{"id":119027,"heading":""shame"? "stop killing babies"?","article":"What the hell kind of taunts are those?\r\n\r\nHow about "JOIN OUR RESISTANCE".\r\n\r\n"HELP STOP THE WAR".\r\n\r\n"BUSH IS A LIAR".\r\n\r\nIn ANY large political movement, you *need* the support of the military. Sometimes, it's a feasible thing to get the military to turn against the administration. It happened in Vietnam, because there was a draft. I always thought that was one reason why the military doesn't like a draft.\r\n\r\nIf you can't get them to turn on their commanders, you can at least get non-compliance outside of battle situations. That's effective too.\r\n\r\nLike Daniels said, the soldiers have a class interest, and they generally don't relish going to war, particularly one of aggression.\r\n\r\nLet the commanders at Abu Ghraib blame the soldiers for fucking up. Let the VA hospital system allow vets to go homeless. Let's not be like those dirty military bureaucrats.\r\n\r\nHey Matt, how do you know that we aren't already buying cooperation from Saddam? If the "coalition" was serious, they would have offed him already. I think they kept him around for intel, and potentially to consult. They know him, and $probably$ $understand$ $what$ $makes$ $him$ $tick$. They can send him down to South America, maybe set him up at a resort where some Nazis are dying of old age.\r\n\r\nAlso, Sheepdog, maybe they modified a couple for parades, practice, and whatnot. Just an idea.\r\n\r\n","author":"more rational","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 08:59:23","modified":"2004-11-12 08:59:23","fileurl":""},{"id":119029,"heading":"errata","article":"Sorry, I meant "soldiers" turning against the administration. The military didn't go against it, but individual soldiers did. If they didn't in combat, because, well, you can't really do that because it's treason (and a pretty shitty thing to do to your fellow soldiers), they did afterward. Or they went AWOL, or CO. My point is that these actions are significant. They help build the peace movement. Usually, the harshest, most powerful critics of the military are people who served in the military.\r\n\r\nI'm never going to say those three loaded words, "support our troops," but please, try to understand our troops. Understand where they fit into the system, how they relate to the peace movement, and how they relate to our communities.","author":"more rational","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 09:26:35","modified":"2004-11-12 09:26:35","fileurl":""},{"id":119031,"heading":"USMC LAV not tanks","article":"Those vehicles are not tanks. As best as I can tell they look like Marine Corps Light Armored Vehicles, also known as the LAV-25. The LAV is an armored eight wheeled amphibious vehicle. It's main mission is recon and infantry transport. It's engine is in the front compartment and it has room for a squad of men in the rear. The standard gun turret has a 25mm automatic cannon and a co-axial 7.62mm machine gun.\r\n\r\nhere is a link http:\/\/www.1ofthefew.com\/lav25.htm","author":"Brad","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 09:50:26","modified":"2004-11-12 09:50:26","fileurl":""},{"id":119033,"heading":"It's not a Tank","article":"And it's not a "Stryker" fighting vehicle. It's a United States Marine Corps LAV III light armoured vehicle. It's main armament is a 25mm Bushmaster chain gun.\r\n\r\nIf anyone here honestly thinks the government is trying to violate the Posse Comititus Act, they're the dumbest person alive. The nearest Marine Corps base -- does anyone think the USMC drove a couple of LAV IIIs 80 MILES from Pendleton to L.A., hung around for ten minutes, then left? \r\n\r\nGet over yourselves, friggin' hippy tree-hugging idiots. ","author":"Abraxas","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 10:35:13","modified":"2004-11-12 10:35:13","fileurl":""},{"id":119034,"heading":"Call Bullshit Sorta","article":"OK, several things are wrong with the story although strangely enough, the gist of the story is probably true.\r\n\r\nFirst, it is spelled Stryker, not Striker.\r\n\r\nSecond, the Stryker is currently only fielded by the Army. A Marine driving a Stryker would be as out of place as an Air Force pilot steering a destroyer.\r\n\r\nThird, the vehicle in the photo of the original story is a LAV-25. LAV=light armored vehicle. The Marines do use the LAV-25 and has many of them at Camp Pendleton. They normally have three crew members and also carry six infantry so the gist of the story looks right. \r\n\r\n","author":"Douglas","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 10:53:28","modified":"2004-11-12 10:53:28","fileurl":""},{"id":119035,"heading":"teacher","article":"Right now USA is bombing Felluce FLAT.\r\n\r\nFor what? Because the Iraquis are defending their FREEDOM.\r\nAgainst an oppressive regime that has killed over HUNDRED THOUSAND of them.\r\n\r\nAccording to BBC, there are still 100,000 civilians in Felluce,\r\nlet's see how many of them survive the US atrocities","author":"teacher","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 11:30:55","modified":"2004-11-12 11:30:55","fileurl":""},{"id":119037,"heading":"Mr.","article":"Kill dumb people? Bah-bah Demlibs? You ,my friend, are the pot calling the kettle black. But that is right-winged logic. It's okay to hate, as long as you paint the other guy up as evil. I'll bet you're a good church-goin' saint.\r\nThat's what's wrong with our country ... not enough of you righteous, god-fearin' people to keep us heathenistic, hell-bound, pagan liberals beat into submission.\r\nThank you for your concern and understanding.","author":"T.McConnell","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 11:46:27","modified":"2004-11-12 11:46:27","fileurl":""},{"id":119039,"heading":"Intimidation Tactics","article":"This video APPEARS to be evidence of intimidation much like the protestors at he Republican National Convention recieved(but without the tanks). I just wish the insurgents (or as the French now call them Resistance Fighters) could see these types of protests going on in America so that they would know that not all Americans are in support of what this administration is doing to them and their country.","author":"kbfresh","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 13:34:04","modified":"2004-11-12 13:34:04","fileurl":""},{"id":119040,"heading":"California","article":"California.......the land of fruits and nuts. Answer is a completely useless organization. ","author":"Common Sense","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 13:54:54","modified":"2004-11-12 13:54:54","fileurl":""},{"id":119041,"heading":"Oh. an out of state opinion","article":"If you have no information excepting your uncalled for opinion; relax\r\nkeep your hands in your pocket, read the posts and STFU, Common Sense.","author":"Please","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 14:39:08","modified":"2004-11-12 14:39:08","fileurl":""},{"id":119042,"heading":"Lunacy","article":"California is known worldwide as being one giant rubber room","author":"Common Sense","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 14:47:42","modified":"2004-11-12 14:47:42","fileurl":""},{"id":119044,"heading":"Whether or not it is technically a tank in military parlance does not matter!","article":"Dear Sirs,\r\n\r\nThough I am respectful of your knowledge of military fighting vehicles, I respectfully disagree with the idea that this sort of action by our government should be dismissed on the basis that the story did not correctly taxonomize the military fighting vehicle used to intimidate peaceful protestors. Whether or not this vehicle is in fact a tank is of little matter, the fact is, that for civilians the intimidating effect is the same whether it be a LAV or a Abrahms tank. This was an unecessary show of force and one which truly should be denounced by persons on all sides of the Iraq war issue; we as Americans need to defend our rights at home as well as abroad. In response to the comment made regarding the relative sanity of Californians, I cannot comment on its validity, but regardless of the sanity of protestors does it justify the use of military force to shut them up?","author":"Civilian Casualty of the War on Civil Liberty","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 15:16:02","modified":"2004-11-12 15:16:02","fileurl":""},{"id":119046,"heading":"Tanks in Westwood","article":"This will be the new America.....the right wing Neo Cons expect a Revolution. They may even want one to decrease the population and get rig of undesirables.\r\n(the Good Guys) USA is A Faciest Dictatorship.....\r\nGOD is WATCHING...... BUSH supporters have BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS","author":"Kunundrum","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 15:28:03","modified":"2004-11-12 15:28:03","fileurl":""},{"id":119055,"heading":"No surprise","article":"Would anyone really be surprised if there were tanks, or LAVs or whatever they are, rolling down the streets of any town in the U.S.? Isn't that where we're headed, toward a facist police state? It must be what we want, since we've let it happen by being stupid and apathetic. Like Adlai Stevenson said 50 years ago, people get the government they deserve, and the ignorant bumpkins that comprise the majority of this country, the great unwashed Wal-Mart masses, have got exactly what they deserve. That's why I think it's time for smart people to get rid of dumb people, the evolved do away with the unevolved. One moment of pain, then bliss.","author":"Let's kill dumb people","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 16:43:20","modified":"2004-11-12 16:43:20","fileurl":""},{"id":119056,"heading":"You still don't get it","article":"The killing has been underway for centuries. The smart people are the problem if they have that annoying moral sense. They are the target of the culling process known as war.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 16:48:07","modified":"2004-11-12 16:48:07","fileurl":""},{"id":119062,"heading":"Ahem...","article":"No, truly evolved, aware people, those who keep their third eye squeeged clean, are not the problem, and that is who I believe Mr. Let's kill dumb people is referring to. Just being smart isn't enough, awareness must be there too. Our education system is failing, by design, to produce aware citizens, and that is why the lower classes vote heavily in favor of the rich and powerful - they are conditioned, through junk culture, to respond to primitive imagery, like Bush holding the Bible in one hand and the U.S. flag in the other while spewing lies. The poor, dumb, uneducated, unaware masses don't realize they're being manipulated....","author":"Bill Hicks","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 17:06:51","modified":"2004-11-12 17:06:51","fileurl":""},{"id":119063,"heading":"Yes, that's it!","article":"Yes, Mr. Hicks, thank you, that is exactly right! I don't really advocate violence, I'm a tree-hugging long-hair hippy frustrated at the direction this country is heading and I think people need to be shocked into thinking about what's really going on. 'Nuff said.","author":"Let's kill dumb people","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 17:17:26","modified":"2004-11-12 17:17:26","fileurl":""},{"id":119064,"heading":"Just Freaky","article":"\r\nI was among the protestors at the Federal Building on November 9th. I believe out nation faces profound risks and has lost its moral compass by adopting the Bush preemptive attack doctrine. His extraordinary and close-minded positions require extraordinary energy in opposition.\r\n\r\nWhen the "tanks" (okay LAV's) passed us the first time, we all just found it to be utterly bizarre. When they came back, it seemed way past bizarre. \r\n\r\nThe comment under the lead "Robo Cop" says he was in one of the LAV's and that their visit was not part of some intended "fly by" exercise. I'm glad that he weighed in here; it is comforting to know that some of the soldiers know we are out here and participate in the discourse.\r\n\r\nHe doesn't say what they were doing there. Maybe, they were on some other top secret mission to protect Westwood (or just a little too embarrassed to admit that they couldn't navigate LA streets). I don't really buy either of those explanations, but I suppose I still believe his statement that this was not intimidation directed at the protest (since that goal wouldn't make sense either).\r\n\r\nIn the middle of the incident, I did not perceive any animosity from the soldiers on the LAV's (they actually seemed friendly). I also want to note that the LAPD, who stepped in, were also controlled and professional. Young men in uniform are instruments to carry out the policies of our country's leadership. Although that makes most of them pawns for George Bush's wrongheaded plans, many of them (unlike their commander in chief) are conscientious and openminded citizens. We don't want to alienate them unnecessarily. They are faced with a dilemma that no American should be forced to deal with.\r\n\r\nIn my view, the protestors were (in general) not hostile to the soldiers either -- although everyone was anxious to make it clear that U.S. military vehicles don't belong at antiwar protests for any reason. Oh, of course, a few protestors can't resist overstating the message when faced with troops and military vehicles. Hey, most people who take some hours out of their daily lives to hold signs on public streets have deeply felt emotions.\r\n\r\nThis "incident" arose in the context of post-election 2004. The Bush Administration has made it all too clear that they will now be increasingly aggressive in pursuing their extreme right wing agenda, both domestically and abroad, while reaching across the political spectrum to reconcile with everyone who agrees with that agenda (huh?). \r\n\r\nSo, I guess the Westwood incident was probably just some freaky thing. That was this time. But, in an odd way, this does foretell where we are headed.\r\n\r\njas","author":"jas","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 17:35:05","modified":"2004-11-12 17:35:05","fileurl":""},{"id":119065,"heading":"Free Tickets to Fallujada","article":"Go join your other terrorists in Fallujada and get what you deserve.","author":"waltervee","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 17:36:25","modified":"2004-11-12 17:36:25","fileurl":""},{"id":119067,"heading":"It's not a tank","article":"Those aren't tanks... Those are strykers.","author":"Jimmy James","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 17:57:52","modified":"2004-11-12 17:57:52","fileurl":""},{"id":119068,"heading":"americas ignorance +","article":"
I agree with @ that the wars are nothing more than a big smokescreen by the leaders of this country to make gains for a few at the expense of the mass.\r\n Consider another angle in this current war on Iraq. It has been known for decades that the Caspian sea is a hotbed rich in petrolium and has become a focus of major exploration with the colapse of the soviet union. The eurasian states of the former USSR that stand to gain the most are the ones bordering this sea. They include Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, and Russia itself. Pipelines have already been laid from the Sea in Baku, Azerbaijan to its west most border with Armenia, crossing the northern border of Georgia, west to the Black Sea. Another line extends from Baku, Azerbaijan north along the sea and across the border with Russia, then breaks west to the west most border with the black sea. Still another starts in Tenzig, Kazakhstan following the Caspian around the sea to the north, then breaking west and finally continuing southwest across the border with its western neighbor Russia, terminating at Komsomolskaya, Russia. Another line is planned to run from the east coast of the Caspian sea in Krasnovodsk, Turkmenistan across the sea to the east bank of Baku, Azerbaijan then continuing west to Tbilisi, Georgia, Finally ending in Ceyhan, Turkey. Other routes are also under consideration, but I think if you look at a current world map you will be convinced as I am that this war is not about freedom for any one, but the greedy, ignorant, stupid american government, i.e. Haliburton, (Cheney) trying to take at least some control of this rich petrolium deposit. Does anyone see a connection between this war, the election results and the real reason that Bush Cheney started this war. I do and I hope you do to. Fight for Iraqi freedom, B.S.","author":"dacos","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 18:00:30","modified":"2004-11-12 18:00:30","fileurl":""},{"id":119070,"heading":"Coincidence","article":"It does matter, military parlance or not. The fact is that because they are wheeled vehicles, they don't need any special permission to roll on civilian streets (just like all of those National Guard\/Reserve Convoys), that's why the Police would have had no idea what was going on.\r\nThey were up from the San Deigo area, that they took a wrong turn off of the right exit is pretty likely.","author":"Neutral-guy","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 18:03:27","modified":"2004-11-12 18:03:27","fileurl":""},{"id":119071,"heading":"why?","article":"what did this change? will george w. bush stop the war now? sometime protesting just seems misguided and unproductive, but i guess someone has to do it. i mean i understand we cant let them get away with this shit, but isnt there a more productive way? one that will actually bring about change?","author":"jeff whitefield","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 18:03:42","modified":"2004-11-12 18:03:42","fileurl":""},{"id":119072,"heading":"mr","article":"Welcome to the new U.S.A WAKE UP AMERICA INFOWARS.COM","author":"nells","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 18:11:58","modified":"2004-11-12 18:11:58","fileurl":""},{"id":119073,"heading":"it was freaky","article":"I am the tanks author, you were right not to buy it we were there for a parade for the following day, and were lost la streets are a bit difficult to navigate and thank you for your very intellegent comments I thank you for being so kind to us we are your tools of freedom. I hope you continue to demand change I wouldn't have it any other way","author":"lost","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 18:12:37","modified":"2004-11-12 18:12:37","fileurl":""},{"id":119080,"heading":"Ms.","article":"See posting at blog Homeland Security Blanket Brings Heat<\/a>\r\n\r\nOther references and links are available there.","author":"Angela Lynn","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 18:53:45","modified":"2004-11-12 18:53:45","fileurl":""},{"id":119082,"heading":"JB","article":"For more info., you can go to:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.michaelmoore.com\/\r\n","author":"JB","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:07:37","modified":"2004-11-12 19:07:37","fileurl":""},{"id":119084,"heading":"i have doubts about the story","article":"Here's what I would do if I were driving the vehicle.\r\n\r\nI would pull over away from the crowd, and send a guy to talk to the numerous police, to get directions. Why hassle with the demonstrators?\r\n\r\nIf the driver was, indeed, lost, I think there was an element of harrasment in pulling over and stopping near the demonstration.\r\n\r\nNext time this happens, we need to get the name of their commanding officer, where they are stationed, and what division and\/or company they're in.","author":"more rational","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:19:51","modified":"2004-11-12 19:19:51","fileurl":""},{"id":119085,"heading":"Tanks at Protest","article":"There seems to be something that no-one has mentioned yet. The first being a reminder that this administration has proven its mastery of media manipulation. The second is that even a shortsighted, so-called christian (probably) would not react favorably to seeing armed and armored military vehicles being used on Americans.\r\n\r\nSo, keeping in mind the first item with the intent of taking care of the second, what better way to inoculate the media and their brain dead zombies by introducing tanks (for this purpose, it does not matter that they technically are not tanks) into the peace protest mix?\r\n\r\nFirst, you just put them there without having them really do anything. This gets people use to seeing them there and, gradually, images of Tienneman (sp?) Square dissipate.\r\n\r\nOnce that happens, you can actually start using them. They'll start out being used as barricades, etc. Eventually, some activists will get hot-headed and altercations will start.\r\n\r\nThis is when you\u2019ll see the true mastery at work. At first, the tanks will not be used to counteract any the altercations. This will lead to people speculating as to why the tanks weren\u2019t used. Once it gets into the mainstream that they should have just used them, they will be used. It will even be argued that the \u201cpeople\u201d wanted them to be used. (Of course, it will be the political theater hacks like Rush and Tucker that will make these arguments publicly.)\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s the kettle being brought to boil slowly.","author":"Murray","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:23:09","modified":"2013-11-11 00:31:38","fileurl":""},{"id":119086,"heading":"GPS","article":"Hey this vehicle the LAV -25 with a bushmaster cannon does not have a built-in GPS. The GPS we would use is a hand-held device that must be check out of an armory. Instead we did used map-quest which we all know is not very accurate. Do you really believe we were sent to intimidate you I think you are not being practical, and the parade was on the 10th, look it up? I am so trying to be understanding toward your cause, but you make it so hard with your rhetoric. You on one side calling troops murderers, poor dumb red necks and, how horrible our country is, and then the administration on the complete opposite you mean there is no compromise, no understanding you all are starting to make me sick and I mean both sides. Also, we all take offence to all the OH they are poor and do not know better. You think we get paid well here? You are so wrong, no one joins for money, it is something you obviously will never understand. FYI most of our unit are college graduates and come from affluent areas of Orange County and San Diego County so much for the dumb poor red neck myth.","author":"lost","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:24:19","modified":"2004-11-12 19:24:19","fileurl":""},{"id":119087,"heading":"GPS","article":"Hey this vehicle the LAV -25 with a bushmaster cannon does not have a built-in GPS. The GPS we would use is a hand-held device that must be check out of an armory. Instead we did used map-quest which we all know is not very accurate. Do you really believe we were sent to intimidate you I think you are not being practical, and the parade was on the 10th, look it up? I am so trying to be understanding toward your cause, but you make it so hard with your rhetoric. You on one side calling troops murderers, poor dumb red necks and, how horrible our country is, and then the administration on the complete opposite you mean there is no compromise, no understanding you all are starting to make me sick and I mean both sides. Also, we all take offence to all the OH they are poor and do not know better. You think we get paid well here? You are so wrong, no one joins for money, it is something you obviously will never understand. FYI most of our unit are college graduates and come from affluent areas of Orange County and San Diego County so much for the dumb poor red neck myth.","author":"lost","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:25:18","modified":"2004-11-12 19:25:18","fileurl":""},{"id":119088,"heading":"yes, smart people designed the war machine","article":"It wasn't dumb people who engineered the LAV.\r\n\r\nIt was a bunch of well-paid smart people.\r\n\r\nWhat you need are more smart people willing to say "no" to the development of the tools of death.\r\n\r\nDumb people didn't write USA PATRIOT, the Tax Cuts for the Wealthy, and Bush's deceptive campaign. Dumb people didn't invent Enron, or their complex money-hiding schemes.\r\n\r\nSmart, conservative lawyer\/accountant\/police-types did.\r\n\r\nThey very intelligently understood that they were the "overclass". The wealthy and powerful, who were threatened by the general prosperity, and did everything to keep thei wealth and power, and LIE to the people about the massive screwover they're pulling.","author":"more rational","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:30:37","modified":"2004-11-12 19:30:37","fileurl":""},{"id":119089,"heading":"come on","article":"Hey this vehicle the LAV -25 with a bushmaster cannon does not have a built-in GPS. The GPS we would use is a hand-held device that must be check out of an armory. Instead we did used map-quest which we all know is not very accurate. Do you really believe we were sent to intimidate you I think you are not being practical, and the parade was on the 10th, look it up? I am so trying to be understanding toward your cause, but you make it so hard with your rhetoric. You on one side calling troops murderers, poor dumb red necks and, how horrible our country is, and then the administration on the complete opposite you mean there is no compromise, no understanding you all are starting to make me sick and I mean both sides. Also, we all take offence to all the OH they are poor and do not know better. You think we get paid well here? You are so wrong, no one joins for money, it is something you obviously will never understand. FYI most of our unit are college graduates and come from affluent areas of Orange County and San Diego County so much for the dumb poor red neck myth.","author":"lost","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:32:02","modified":"2004-11-12 19:32:02","fileurl":""},{"id":119090,"heading":"Ms","article":"another source is here:\r\n\r\nDemocracy Now<\/a>","author":"Angela Lynn","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:39:01","modified":"2004-11-12 19:39:01","fileurl":""},{"id":119091,"heading":"oh yeah, they send the rednecks into combat...","article":"Sad to say, but my guess is that the genuine poor white folks with only a high school diploma were probably shipped out nice and soon.\r\n\r\nI mean, look at the color of the locals getting killed. They're pretty brown.\r\n\r\nIn Vietnam, African Americans, then in their own civil rights struggle, were killed disproportionately. In WW2, the 442nd company, composed of Japanese Americans (who were interned at the time) suffered a casualty rate of over 50%.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.english.uiuc.edu\/maps\/poets\/s_z\/stevens\/africanamer.htm\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/library.thinkquest.org\/CR0210341\/442nd\/splash442nd.htm","author":"more rational","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 19:52:55","modified":"2004-11-12 19:52:55","fileurl":""},{"id":119092,"heading":"you work for the enemy of freedom","article":"THIS IS NOT A MYTH... the united states military is owned by the global banking machine..so are you. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been killed by the U.S. military in Iraq alone...MURDER IS NO MYTH. \r\nIs it un-wise. or, "dumb" to join the military at this time based on insufficient knowledge of it's true mission in the middle-east? YES. \r\nIF YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE THERE TO PROTECT THE UNITED STATES.. THAT IS SAD.. VERY SAD BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING USED AS DECOY PAWNS IN THE GLOBAL AGENDA. You are actually serving to destroy what is left of America by equatting it to global oppression and war crimes.. You are part of the Global Reformation propaganda machine and you think you are patriots?The same agenda that will have Bush and the current military agenda written down as criminals in the history books. \r\nIf you were TRUE patriots you might be out on the streets with the people who are excercising the constitutional rights that your bosses are waging a war against. I am not judging the soldiers who are un-informed about the issue as "dumb rednecks" But i am making the OBSERVATION that you are pumped with propaganda and very MIS-INFORMED as to the history of U.S. imperialism and the GLOBAL BANKING INSTITUTION that owns you.\r\n"left" and "right" wings are both part of that same sick bird. THINK FORYOURSELVES. ACT FOR OTHERS.\r\nGood thoughts..good words..good deeds","author":"smaze one","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 20:02:19","modified":"2004-11-12 20:02:19","fileurl":""},{"id":119095,"heading":"President","article":"Okay, I saw the video, I'll admit, the vehicles looked very fake from the still shot, but upon further review, the vehicles are probably light armor vehicles, but they ARE NOT STRYKERS OR ABRAMS TANKS. Part of the reason why I initially thought they were fake was because they were so small, now I realize it was just a different vehicle, still...\r\n\r\nthey guy who thinks there is a global conspiracy is right, but the world bank isn't the source. The UN and the EU and other coalitions are trying to globalize the world under a socialist agenda, that is a fact. America's sovereignty, and it's ability to defend itself from anyone, anywhere, unilaterally if necessary, is a threat to those that want to push the socialist agenda. Why else is the media and hollywood and hippy musicians praising communist murderers and dubbing Bush a "devil" while guys like Saddam, Castro, etc get labeled as "victims"?\r\n\r\nWake up, communism isn't the answer, we proved that. Anyone who tries to feed you that crap is catagorically mis-lead. Socialism is the experiment that sounded great, but died miserably. Those 10 or 15 protestors need to go out and get a life.","author":"American Rationalist Party","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 20:21:28","modified":"2004-11-12 20:21:28","fileurl":""},{"id":119096,"heading":"President","article":"Oh yeah, and calling our soldiers misled rednecks, and then insisting we should do good deeds just goes to show how hypocritical you are, how twisted up and sick in the head you are, taht you are so self-righteous, you feel the need to force "good" on everyone. Wasn't there a certain Iraqi dictator just like that? Hmmm....","author":"American Rationalist Party","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 20:27:23","modified":"2004-11-12 20:27:23","fileurl":""},{"id":119103,"heading":"mr","article":"this looks like a stunt. i doubt the military would behave in this way...","author":"ukliberal","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 21:01:16","modified":"2004-11-12 21:01:16","fileurl":""},{"id":119104,"heading":"dear sad men of might","article":""Dictator" and "good" are opposite of each other. Be it Iraqi or American or Household. Prez- you make no sense.\r\nSELF RIGHTEOUS!!?...what the hell do you call "enduring freedom" asshole? \r\nI never advicated communism. And where is the fault in what i wrote? STOP HIDING BEHIND MINDLESS RHETORIC given to you by social engineers!!","author":"smaze one","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 21:05:44","modified":"2004-11-12 21:05:44","fileurl":""},{"id":119110,"heading":"Mr. mr","article":"neither the tanks nor the baton blow i took in the back by the cowardly Westside pigs for stopping them was staged. this was clearly a show of force by the US Army reserve unit in West L.A.","author":"Police State","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 22:38:02","modified":"2004-11-12 22:38:02","fileurl":""},{"id":119112,"heading":"Ohio State??? ummmm","article":"Ohio State??\r\n\r\nPlease review your history. You may be refering to Kent State.","author":"Gordo","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 23:07:59","modified":"2004-11-12 23:07:59","fileurl":""},{"id":119113,"heading":"Too Bad","article":"The Stryker is not a tank with tracks, heavy armor and a big cannon, but an Armored Fighting Vehicle with wheels, thin armor and a small cannon. It's amazingly similar to the Marine Corps' LAV (Light Armored Vehicle), only a bit bigger--surely worth the zillions it took to "develop" the same AFV in a bigger size.\r\n\r\nLook around and you'll notice our only Main Battle Tank is the M1A1\/A2 Abrams, and they're all in Iraq keeping us safe from WMDs and terists who hit us on 9\/11.\r\n\r\nAll war-loving, patriotic republicans should learn the differences between our tank and our AFVs so when you join up to fight this war you all love so much--you are all joining up, right?--you won't jump on the wrong one.","author":"Bah-Bah Demlib Sheep","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-12 23:20:21","modified":"2004-11-12 23:20:21","fileurl":""},{"id":119118,"heading":"Not all Dems are Idiots","article":"For the record, not all democrats and liberals are idiots like these protesters. Some of us actually agree that 'bringing the troops home' would be a mistake and realize the difference between bad presidential foreign policy and the good soldiers that serve in the military.\r\n\r\nProtests like these do nothing but build resentment for 'liberals.' \r\nThanks for damaging the cause, guys! Yeesh.","author":"dano","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 00:00:08","modified":"2006-03-23 20:19:14","fileurl":""},{"id":119120,"heading":"ex mind slave","article":"ahh, right and left wing part of the same bird of oppression from international money holders .. indeed .. let us remember the words of Rothschild. Everyone, find "secret weapons for silent wars" on the net and study the ideas presented. They may not be completely true, or wholesome and complete, but it provides the fuel to start the fires of cleansing. Money runs the world motherfuckers learn that, then start the search for truth. Socialism is another ploy to trick the people out of the wealth they hold in their soul as well as their land (which was bought out already, all that is left is the "human resources"), and capitalism is unabashed theft under the guise of wealth for all ... lol","author":"ex corporate share-cropper","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 00:04:49","modified":"2004-11-13 00:04:49","fileurl":""},{"id":119123,"heading":"The Kerry Demonazi "Dano"","article":"you are probably one the many Deomnazi's i ran into on the streets who told me i couldn't vote for Nader or that voting my conscience (Nader) was a vote for Bush. Now who are you going to blame? You don't have Nader to blame this on. how about the fact that Kerry is a right-wing democrat and people like you who believe the war "can be won" aren't needed on the protest line anyhow.","author":"Police State","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 00:11:16","modified":"2004-11-13 00:11:16","fileurl":""},{"id":119128,"heading":"Ms","article":"I live in L.A. and was there at the Demonstration.\r\nOn the same day some man took a woman hostage at gunpoint at the Mexican Consulate in the Federal Bldg.\r\nWe have been having protests on Wilshire in front of the Federal Bldg. in Westwood for a long time now.\r\nIn my opinion, the "tank presence" was a scare tactic-and we have had some high alert\/homeland security concerns at LAX lately. CA is a blue state and even though Mayor Hahn is a wuss, the residents and money on the westside rule that part of town. Many of those people are in the Entertainment business and DETEST BUSH. One thing the WH keep forgetting about CA, with 54 Electoral Votes - Los Angeles IS the economy in CA, we are a company town, with 4-5 major studios\/major networks that are international and MAKE TONS O' BUCKS every second of the day--our FED TAX BASE IS ENORMOUS--and the Governator is SURROUNDED BY DEMOCRATS IN SACRAMENTO-Including his Kennedy wife, Maria.\r\nThe REAL power people in Hollywood 'Toy with the hypocrites of D.C.' -- they have tremendous money and influence and HATE BUSH with a passion-that is why D.C. is always bashing LA and Hollywood.\r\nCA and other BLUE STATES are beginning to look into seceding from the Feds-afterall, the 2 coasts SUPPORT THE FED TAX BASE--THE RED STATES HAVE NO TAX BASE-THEY ARE VAMPIRES SUCKING OFF THOSE THEY SEEK TO RULE and RIDICULE.\r\nSCREW THEM! WE WILL LEAVE THEM HIGH AND DRY-LET BUSH WRITE THE RED STATES A BAIL OUT CHECK FROM HIS PERSONAL ACCOUNT! ","author":"Katrin Howard","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 01:08:54","modified":"2004-11-13 01:08:54","fileurl":""},{"id":119133,"heading":"PAC USCG (ret)","article":"As a former enlisted guy and a anti-war guy, frankly, I'm embarassed by the rhetoric here. How you expect to motivate the country is totally beyond me. Christ, a couple of guys who don't know LA, using a printout from Mapquest get lost and the next thing you know it's black helicopters and suspension of posse commitas. It's so clear that a alot of the antiwar movement simply has no idea how the military works, probably because it clashes with a closely held (and steel trap shut) mindset.\r\n\r\nThe only way we are going to be able to put our country, I repeat, OUR country back on track is to unite people and not fall prey to crazy-ass notions such as those expressed in this thread. This isn't the 30s and Spain or 68 and Vietnam. The crisis of today requires new, braver thinking and consensus across the strata of society.\r\n\r\nbtw, I live on the east coast, but was in LA last week on vacation. I depended on Mapquest and found myself lost any number of times! But I was in a rented mustang, not an LAV, I have to say.","author":"Mackensie","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 01:31:42","modified":"2004-11-13 01:31:42","fileurl":""},{"id":119142,"heading":"More on my Posse Comitatus Comment","article":"Just a quick clarification on my previous comment. First of all, I'm a Bill of Rights supporting old-fashioned conservative. I believe in the Bill of Rights, and laws such as the Posse Comitatus Act. I read someone's comment stating that is was implied by myself or another poster that the government was "trying to violate" this act, when in fact, my posting never said any such thing, and as far as I can see, Thom's posting just made a statement on how the Posse Comitatus act is all but dead - to which I agree. I just put that up there because I felt it was appropriate information in a time when we are seeing the military getting more and more involved in civilian law enforcement. Don't believe it's happening around the country? Well, you might want to research it, and suddenly we'll have a greater interest in the nearly-mothballed Posse Comitatus Act. If anyone feels I'm a tree-hugging liberal, or a pompous gun-toting conservative, feel free to email me directly - and I'll gladly banter with you. mboldin@populistamerica.com","author":"Michael Boldin","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 02:54:55","modified":"2004-11-13 02:54:55","fileurl":""},{"id":119145,"heading":"mr","article":"Hi, I'm actually on top of that LAV and we didnt know about your little protest. We were on our way to a parade that was going to happen the next morning. Please don't think this is a police state or we were sent to take you guys out. Before i go, why is it that there were people with signs saying bring the troops home, but then at the same time they were giving us the middle finger and telling us they wanted us dead and they themselves were going to kill us?","author":"guyontheturret","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 05:10:40","modified":"2004-11-13 05:10:40","fileurl":""},{"id":119146,"heading":"Why?","article":"Inspiromg as the image of Tinanmen Square became for public Chinese world relations, is this what the citizens of a free society should have to witness in the streets of the LA.? Where will we witness it next? Kansas City, Madison, Cincinnati, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland, Cuyahoga Falls, Iowa City, Chicago, New York, Seattle, New Orleans, Charlotte, Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tallahassee, Miami, or DC. Have we seen the future of free social dissent in this very tiny clip from laindymedia.com? \r\n\r\nThe image of the tanks against human beings changed the course of Chinese world relations. Is there hope that this image of tanks in the streets of LA will change the course of US relations to the world? Here's to the folks that had to feel this oppression and here's to their bravery for standing their ground.\r\n\r\nW-- We can only hope that this oppressive image will bring our newly elected administration to its knees literally and figuratively. W-- you owe the citizens of the US who witnessed this event and those who will not have the disdainful pleasure of witnessing it an apology. Shame on you, W, as a leader of the world's exemplary democracy, how do you ever expect to export your ideals of freedom and democracy when you have tanks combing small time protests in our neighborhoods?\r\n","author":"D","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 05:12:58","modified":"2004-11-13 05:12:58","fileurl":""},{"id":119147,"heading":"Why?","article":"Inspiring as the image of Tinanmen Square became for public Chinese world relations, is this what the citizens of a free society should have to witness in the streets of the LA.? Where will we witness it next? Kansas City, Madison, Cincinnati, Columbus, Akron, Cleveland, Cuyahoga Falls, Iowa City, Chicago, New York, Seattle, New Orleans, Charlotte, Atlanta, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Tallahassee, Miami, or DC. Have we seen the future of free social dissent in this very tiny clip from laindymedia.com? \r\n\r\nThe image of the tanks against human beings changed the course of Chinese world relations. Is there hope that this image of tanks in the streets of LA will change the course of US relations to the world? Here's to the folks that had to feel this oppression and here's to their bravery for standing their ground.\r\n\r\nW-- We can only hope that this oppressive image will bring our newly elected administration to its knees literally and figuratively. W-- you owe the citizens of the US who witnessed this event and those who will not have the disdainful pleasure of witnessing it an apology. Shame on you, W, as a leader of the world's exemplary democracy, how do you ever expect to export your ideals of freedom and democracy when you have tanks combing small time protests in our neighborhoods?\r\n","author":"D","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 05:14:22","modified":"2004-11-13 05:14:22","fileurl":""},{"id":119154,"heading":"Believe this","article":"I'm the second guy on the right. Our corporal received orders to route by the protest and we were directed to stop in front of you and then to go around the block and stop again. Don't believe any more of the anonymous comments you're reading here.\r\n\r\nBill McAndrews","author":"2nd guy on the right","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 07:02:43","modified":"2004-11-13 07:02:43","fileurl":""},{"id":119179,"heading":"THIS","article":"is exactly why the lunatic left has lost every last shred of credibility and is doomed to marginal loserville for the foreseeable future.\r\n\r\nPlease, keep it up!\r\n\r\nDEAN FOR DNC CHAIR!\r\n\r\n\r\nYEEEAAAAAAARRRRRGH!\r\n\r\n","author":"YourInnerAdult","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 14:04:38","modified":"2004-11-13 14:04:38","fileurl":""},{"id":119180,"heading":"This is by far...","article":"After reading this entire thing from top to bottom, I can safely conclude the following:\r\n\r\nThis is by far the biggest cesspool of ignorant, misinformed, left wing, liberal conspiracy theorists I have ever seen.","author":"X","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 14:13:03","modified":"2004-11-13 14:13:03","fileurl":""},{"id":119187,"heading":"This was all staged. It's Hollywood baby!","article":"I think everyone needs to calm down. Michael Moore featured this story at his web site on November 10 and 11. Moore is the master of propaganda. The information for this 'news story' was taken from one of the demonstrators, NOT a journalist or an unbiased witness. There is a video, filmed with a hand held camera. It's very interesting. I've seen it. It's blurry and hard to see some images, but I could not see ANY markings on these 'tanks,' nor could I see any markings on the 'soldiers' uniforms. I find this very suspicious. \r\n\r\nThe police only showed up to keep people off of the very busy street and away from heavy traffic. Number of police is three. Only heard the voice of one or two. Number of demonstrators was listed as 'hundreds' but only looked like maybe 25. Several people walking past or just watching, but do they count? Hundreds driving past, surely they do not count!\r\n\r\nDon't you all find it odd that there are no media pictures or stories on the wires or the local and national U.S. news about this incident? You think military tanks moving through Los Angeles, California would generate more press coverage. This story is very odd and it sounds like it was staged. Tanks do not just 'drive by.'\r\n\r\nHInt to this being planned and staged - - - if 'lost' as suggested, why didn't the 'soldiers' talk to the police that where there? The video shows three 'soldiers' per 'tank' and no one is talking.\r\n\r\nLos Angeles is Hollywood baby!!! This was all faked to get attention. Ummm, I think it worked! I hope this IS investigated. We'll all find out who was behind this stunt.\r\n\r\nShow me more factual independent proof, not just blogs or message boards. The police were there, check their reports of this incident. Oh, yeah, they're the boggy man too!!?!!","author":"Ida","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 15:03:30","modified":"2004-11-13 15:03:30","fileurl":""},{"id":119205,"heading":"ITS MASTER CHIEF","article":"Seriously the guy in the tank looks like master chief!","author":"Me","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 19:23:13","modified":"2004-11-13 19:23:13","fileurl":""},{"id":119207,"heading":"Staged? SUUURRE","article":"So Michael Moore is the "master of propaganda?" Too bad we have absolutely nothing to say about Ann Coulter's vile and filth. I guess you consider that thing "unbiased."\r\n\r\nGet over it. George the Murderer is turning this country into a theocracy and military dictatorship combined.\r\n\r\nHe didn't win either election. The first time he had his daddy's friends on the Supreme Court hand him his job and the second time his friends at Diebold gave it to him (funny how the head of Diebold, a die hard Republican, said LAST YEAR that he was "committed to devliering Ohio" for George in this year's election. The majority voted Kerry yet Georgie comes out the winner.\r\n\r\nSUUURRE!","author":"Dig","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 19:50:45","modified":"2004-11-13 19:50:45","fileurl":""},{"id":119208,"heading":"To Ida... YOU'RE AN IDIOT","article":"you want proof this was not staged? Perhaps you should come by my home sometime this weekend and take a look at the bruises i sustained because i stood down the tanks last Tuesday night? would that be proof enough for you you f-king coward.","author":"the guy standing down the tanks","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 19:54:23","modified":"2004-11-13 19:54:23","fileurl":""},{"id":119210,"heading":"Audio from Democracy Now","article":"MP3 file","author":"Report from the event","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"audio\/mpeg","created":"2004-11-13 20:11:19","modified":"2005-08-15 03:04:59","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/11\/d-now.mp3"},{"id":119217,"heading":"YOU NEED TO READ THIS","article":"I'LL TELL YOU ALL THIS, Y'ALL STUPID!!! THOSE MANIACS BLOCKED THE LAVS THEY WOULDNT LET THEM THROUGH. THEY ARE NOT SOLDIERS THEY ARE MARINES THEY WERE THERE FOR THE PARADE THAT WAS TO BE HELD THE NEXT DAY. THIS IS WHY AMERICA IS STUPID. YOU ALL SIT AROUND AND THINK OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND THAT YOUR LITTLE CAUSE AND PROTEST WOULD EVEN GET THE ATTENTION OF THE MARINE CORPS OR THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. GET OVER IT STOP TRYING TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT YOU LOSERS. NO ONE CARES IF YOU PROTEST OR NOT. YOU ALL MUST BE A BUNCH OF BORED PEOPLE WITH NOTHING GOING ON IN YOUR LIVES TO EVEN MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF THIS AND I BET THAT WHEN YOUR OLDER YOU'LL ALL TELL YOUR KIDS HOW THE EVIL GOVERNMENT TRIED TO RUN YOU OVER WITH TANKS... THEY'RE NOT TANKS!!!! SHAME ON EVERYBODY FOR TALKING BAD ABOUT THE MILITARY AND TELLING THEM TO DIE AND GO TO HELL. ITS BECAUSE OF THESE FINE YOUNG MEN THAT YOU CAN EVEN STAND OUT THERE AND PROTEST. YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PROTEST IN OTHER COUNTRIES. YOU ALL TAKE FOR GRANTED AND DO NOT APPRECIATE WHAT YOU HAVE.","author":"i was there!!!","parent_id":118865,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-11-13 21:22:10","modified":"2004-11-13 21:22:10","fileurl":""},{"id":119222,"heading":"More Police State measures","article":"I tend to side with Alex Jones from