{"article":{"id":116028,"heading":"An Open Letter of Conscience and Choice","author":"Robert Rabbin, et al.","created":"2004-08-24 02:33:03","modified":"2013-11-11 00:30:42","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:30:42","article":"<p>An Open Letter of Conscience and Choice <br>  <br> To All Spiritual, Metaphysical, Yoga, and Meditation Communities <br><br> by Robert Rabbin, Stephen Mitchell, Rabbi Michael Lerner, John Friend, Dan Millman, Riane Eisler, Tom Hayden, et al. <br><br> There are times in life when we must act. And when those moments come, we must act with our truest heart, our clearest mind, and our noblest intentions. <br><br> November 2 is such a time. On that day, we will take in hand one of the tools for social transformation. We will exercise our right to vote and our responsibility to voice our values and conscience. We will choose a new president and vice president. We, the signers of this letter, after full consideration, careful study, and deep reflection, endorse and recommend John Kerry and John Edwards for these offices. We urge all of you to vote for them. This is a matter of great importance and urgency. <br><br> The Kerry\/Edwards ticket is not perfect, and we have many serious disagreements with them, especially in the area of militarism and defense spending. But Howard Dean rightfully cautions us to not let perfection become the enemy of the good. In this election, we have two clear choices. By any standard or measure&mdash;policy, ideology, humanity, truthfulness&mdash;Kerry is better by far than George W. Bush, and Edwards is better by far than Dick Cheney. We believe their cabinet selections and their many other appointments, including to the Supreme Court, will be better by far than those of George W. Bush. We urge you to register and vote for John Kerry and John Edwards. <br><br> There are many reasons to not vote: cynicism, apathy, distrust of candidates, or the conviction that spirit transcends politics and we dare not risk our spiritual brightness by descending into the murky depths of political darkness and intrigue. But these are not legitimate reasons. It is an inappropriate spiritual response to our times to be socially aloof and politically uninvolved. The Dalai Lama encourages us, \"Sometimes we look down on politics, criticizing it as dirty. However, if you look at it properly, politics in itself is not wrong. With good motivation&mdash;sincerity and honesty&mdash;politics becomes an instrument in the service of society.\" <br><br> The self-evident fact of inter-dependence will not allow us to stand on the sidelines of life, to ignore what is happening in our own backyards. We live in society, and society lives in us. This awareness requires responsibility. This awareness requires participation. This awareness requires expression. <br>  <br>   <br>  <br> We all know from our studies, practice, and experience that the inner and the outer are more than mirror images of each other: they are each other. There is no separation, no difference, no distance between them. This is why the philosopher J. Krishnamurti said, &ldquo;The crisis is not out there in the world; it is in our own consciousness.&rdquo; A flower is not separate from its fragrance. <br><br> We have been refining our inner consciousness. We have been purifying our inner consciousness. We have been liberating our inner consciousness from the stranglehold of limiting and hurtful beliefs and images and concepts. For years, we have taken this &ldquo;hero&rsquo;s journey&rdquo; to inner truth, freedom, and wisdom in order to become whole and free. But we have not taken this journey for ourselves alone; we have also taken this journey for others and for our world. <br><br> It is not just for ourselves that we love wisdom and practice compassion, not just for ourselves that we pursue truth instead of falsehood, not just for ourselves that we ask those fearsome questions that lead to knowledge of the soul. No, it is not just for ourselves that we do this. We do it equally for others. Our very quest for wholeness of being is at its core a service to others. The Kabbalah reminds us, \"First we receive the light, then we impart the light. Thus we repair the world.\" And now it is time to begin healing this world, our world, in the same way we have sought to heal ourselves from the diseases of hatred, violence, and greed; in the same way we have sought to heal our own hearts of anger born of fear, and fear born of separation.  <br><br> Voting for John Kerry and John Edwards is a positive step towards this social healing. To be sure, it is just one step in a long journey, but one we should all take on November 2. <br><br> Signed (as private citizens, not as representatives of any organization): <br><br> Robert Rabbin, writer, speaker, creator of TruthForPresident.org <br>  <br> Stephen Mitchell, writer <br>  <br> Rabbi Michael Lerner, author, editor of Tikkun Magazin <br>  <br> John Friend, founder of Anusara Yoga <br>  <br> Dan Millman, author, teacher <br>  <br> Riane Eisler, author of The Chalice &amp; The Blade and The Power of Partnership <br>  <br> Tom Hayden, author, activist, former California legislator <br>  <br> Sharon Steffensen, yoga teacher, editor of YOGAChicago <br>  <br> Saniel Bonder, author, founder of Waking Down in Mutuality work <br>  <br> Judith Whitson, publisher, writer, lecturer, teacher <br>  <br> William W. Whitson, writer, speaker, retired Army officer <br>  <br> Jonathan Granoff, Esq. (Ahamed Muhaiyaddeen), author, screenwriter, speaker, activist <br>  <br> Larry Robinson, Vice-mayor, Sebastopol, CA <br>  <br> Tami Coyne, author, spiritual teacher <br>  <br> Pamela Miles, founder of Institute for the Advancement of Complementary Therapies  <br>  <br> Gilles Marin, author, founder of Chi Nei Tsang Institute <br>  <br> Raphael Cushnir, author, spiritual teacher <br>  <br> Stephen Dinan, author of Radical Spirit, progressive activist <br>  <br> Sandra Sedgbeer, publisher of PlanetLightworker &amp; Children of the New Earth <br>  <br> Connie Shaw, publisher of Sentient Publications <br>  <br> Laurie Schryver, psychic, teacher, progressive activist <br>  <br> Robert Skutch, author <br>  <br> Lee Skutch, psychologist  <br>  <br> Kanu Kogod, Ph.D, anthropologist, author, founder of Bridges in Organizations <br>  <br> David Lurey, yoga teacher <br>  <br> Debbie Milam, author, Reiki master, president of Unlimited Inspiration <br>  <br> Rev. Laura R. Davis, co-founder of Wisdom &amp; Wellness Expo, Reiki master <br>  <br> Rev. C.J. Davis, spiritual teacher, Reiki master, <br>  <br> Elizabeth Ann Bloom, president of Here There &amp; Beyond, Inc. <br>  <br> Mary Alice O'Connor, interfaith minister <br>  <br> Amy Kahn, yoga teacher <br>  <br> Gina Rabbin, psychic, life and business coach <br>  <br> Chetan Parkyn, author, spiritual teacher <br>  <br> Carolina Eastwood, author, spiritual counselor <br>  <br> Sister Mary Jude Jun, OSU is an Ursuline Sister <br><br> &copy; 2004\/Robert Rabbin\/All rights reserved <br><br> Robert Rabbin, the creator of this \"Letter,\" is a writer, speaker, and spiritual activist. He is the author of numerous books and articles, and the creator of TruthForPresident.org, an online spiritual activism resource. Visit: <a href=\"http:\/\/www.robrabbin.com\" rel=\"nofollow\">http:\/\/www.robrabbin.com<\/a>. <br>  <br> <\/p>\n","contact":"rob@robrabbin.com","link":"http:\/\/www.truthforpresident.org","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"Spiritual leaders and yoga\/meditation teachers endorse Kerry\/Edwards and urge voter registration and electoral participation.","numcomment":60,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2004\/08\/116028.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":116032,"heading":"The real deal","article":"  It's more than just that \u201cThe Kerry\/Edwards ticket is not perfect\u201d because Fascism with a smother face is still the death knoll of liberty and justice and it's still Fascism.  The merger of corporate and state policies whether or not one wears a brown shirt with swastika or an American flag pin, is Fascism.\r\n\r\nOne Big Property Party, Part One \r\nhttp:\/\/radio4houston.org\/takingaim\/takingaim040629.m3u \r\nOne Big Property Party, Part Two \r\nhttp:\/\/radio4houston.org\/takingaim\/takingaim040706.m3u\r\n\r\nopens with Real Player.\r\nWe are being played like a tin drum as we get herded like farm animals by fear of OUR government.  It's time to make it OURS again.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-08-24 13:15:53","modified":"2013-11-11 00:30:42","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/08\/flag.jpgk7xsss.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/08\/flag.jpgk7xsss.jpg"}},{"id":116049,"heading":"How did Ghandi...","article":"<HTML><HEAD>\r\n<META http-equiv=Content-Type content=&quot;text\/html; charset=iso-8859-1&quot;>\r\n<META content=&quot;MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458&quot; name=GENERATOR><\/HEAD>\r\n<BODY>\r\n<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>defeat the Brits<SPAN class=172140418-23082004> by \r\n<A \r\nhref=&quot;http:\/\/www.google.com\/search?hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=Ghandi+%22Making+salt%22&quot;>making \r\nsalt<\/A><\/SPAN>?<\/FONT><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Would Ghandi's tactics have worked against Nazi \r\nGermany?<\/FONT><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Why not?&nbsp; <\/FONT><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Because fascism declares that &quot;God is \r\ndead&quot;.<\/FONT><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When Right and Wrong become subjective - defined \r\nsolely by the will of&nbsp;<SPAN class=172140418-23082004>a \r\ntyrannical<\/SPAN>&nbsp;majority - then, so long as the collective agrees,&nbsp; \r\nmass murder becomes acceptable.<\/FONT><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>CS Lewis referred to this as <A \r\nhref=&quot;http:\/\/www.google.com\/search?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=%22Poison+of+subjectivism%22&quot;>&quot;The \r\npoison of subjectivism&quot;<BR><\/A><\/FONT><\/DIV><\/BODY><\/HTML>\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-08-24 15:46:43","modified":"2004-08-24 15:46:43","fileurl":""},{"id":116055,"heading":"apologists","article":"but lewis's arguments are far from convincing.  he often makes use of such artful apologetic dodges as the false dichotomy (e.g., Jesus as either son of god or madman, with no intermediate possibilities, such as his just having been plain wrong about himself).\r\n\r\nthere are many books available on ethics without the need of a deity.  i don't like pain, hunger, getting screwed over , etc., so i try not to inflict these things on others. similarly, i appreciate a helping hand when i'm down, so i do what i can for others.  it's rational, with no supernatural baggage.","author":"bert russell","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-24 17:23:57","modified":"2004-08-24 17:23:57","fileurl":""},{"id":116057,"heading":"Rationalization","article":"<HTML><HEAD>\r\n<META http-equiv=Content-Type content=&quot;text\/html; charset=iso-8859-1&quot;>\r\n<META content=&quot;MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458&quot; name=GENERATOR><\/HEAD>\r\n<BODY>\r\n<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><\/FONT>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><EM>&quot;it's <STRONG>rational<\/STRONG>, with no \r\nsupernatural baggage&quot;.<\/EM><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial size=2>Social \r\nDarwinism&nbsp;is&nbsp;quite rational.&nbsp;&nbsp;Very useful \r\nfor<\/FONT><\/SPAN><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial size=2>&nbsp;a \r\nrationalizing&nbsp;the implementation of the &quot;final \r\nsolution&quot;&nbsp;by&nbsp;expressing a &quot;will to power&quot;.&nbsp;<\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><EM>&quot;i&nbsp;don't like pain, hunger, getting \r\nscrewed over , etc., so i try not to inflict these things on \r\nothers&quot;<\/EM><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004>But, given that altruism is disposed of by \r\n<FONT face=Arial size=2>Dawkins &quot;selfish gene&quot;, how does the collective react to \r\nnon-conforming&nbsp;individuals - especially when confronted with a scarcity of \r\nreproductive resources?<\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial size=2>The selfish \r\ngene&nbsp;will always rationalize selfish behavior.&nbsp; <\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial size=2>The selfish gene is \r\nthe result of nature.<\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial size=2>Altruism thus \r\ntranscends nature.<\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial size=2>Altruism&nbsp;is \r\nSupernatural.<\/FONT><\/SPAN><\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><FONT face=Arial \r\nsize=2><\/FONT><\/SPAN>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><SPAN class=604480621-23082004><A \r\nhref=&quot;http:\/\/bible.gospelcom.net\/cgi-bin\/bible?passage=JOHN+3:16&amp;language=english&amp;version=NIV&amp;showfn=on&amp;showxref=on&quot;>&quot;For \r\nGod so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,...&quot; John \r\n3:16<\/A><\/SPAN><\/DIV><\/BODY><\/HTML>\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-08-24 19:09:04","modified":"2004-08-24 19:09:04","fileurl":""},{"id":116069,"heading":"social darwinism","article":"actually, social darwinism is neither rational nor scientifically tenable, in that it does not take into account the built-in inequities for members of lower socioeconomic strata as compared with the ruling class in our present economic system.\r\n\r\nas for those who are deviant or disobey agreed upon rules of society, they ought to be rehabilitated if possible, and if not, isolated from society.  what's the big deal, it's what we do now, except with an acknowledgement that the standards for accepted behavior (no murder, theft, rape, etc.) come out of a consensus of more or less ordinary folks instead of being imposed by fiat by moses, hammurabi, justinian, mohammed, whoever.  once people can accept that, it doesn't matter so much whether or not there's a god, because god is no longer necessary to provide moral guidance.\r\n\r\nps -- no need to quote the new testament...i've read it.","author":"bert russell","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-25 00:29:30","modified":"2004-08-25 00:29:30","fileurl":""},{"id":116070,"heading":"Then genocide is acceptable...","article":"...as long as there is a &quot;consensus of more or less ordinary folks&quot; that says so.\r\n\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-25 00:46:51","modified":"2004-08-25 00:46:51","fileurl":""},{"id":116073,"heading":"but...","article":"i don't know anyone personally, nor have i ever, who feels that genocide is an ok thing. racists and holocaust deniers, perhaps, but they are not ordinary people, are they!\r\n\r\nyour comment ignores my earlier statement that i (and many non-religious people) base morals, at least in part, upon what we like and do not like done to us.  i wouldn't want my entire ethnic group exterminated, again, at least in part, because it includes me!\r\n\r\ni'll let you have this one, madmaxim, because you have a flair for hyperbole, and i grow tired of this exchange.  please excuse that bit of ad hominem, and have a great day.","author":"bert russell","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-25 00:59:00","modified":"2004-08-25 00:59:00","fileurl":""},{"id":116076,"heading":"In Nazi Germany..","article":"<HTML><HEAD>\r\n<META http-equiv=Content-Type content=&quot;text\/html; charset=iso-8859-1&quot;>\r\n<META content=&quot;MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458&quot; name=GENERATOR>\r\n<STYLE><\/STYLE>\r\n<\/HEAD>\r\n<BODY bgColor=#ffffff><FONT face=Arial size=2>\r\n<DIV><BR>it was dangerous not to be - &quot;ordinary&quot;.<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>The chains of the collective, fascist, state.<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>&nbsp;<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>==============================<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>Ex 3:14<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou \r\nsay unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV><BR>John 8:58<\/DIV>\r\n<DIV>58 &quot;I tell you the truth,&quot; Jesus answered, &quot;before Abraham was born, <FONT \r\nsize=3>I am!<\/FONT> &quot;<\/FONT><\/DIV><\/BODY><\/HTML>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2004-08-25 01:57:01","modified":"2004-08-25 01:57:01","fileurl":""},{"id":116093,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"KPC 11:20\r\n\r\n69  &quot;And I say unto you, Minnie is a friggin idiot&quot;","author":"KPC","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-25 15:21:50","modified":"2004-08-25 15:21:50","fileurl":""},{"id":116145,"heading":"&quot;opens with Real Player.&quot;","article":"Yeeeeeeeea right. Like Imma use that bloated spyware on mah machine.","author":"Snoopdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 10:12:21","modified":"2004-08-26 10:12:21","fileurl":""},{"id":116146,"heading":"whatever","article":"If you're so frightened switch to Linux.  It's a robust system of firewalls.  What's the matter, don't want anybody to see all the porn on your 'hard' drive?","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 12:16:11","modified":"2004-08-26 12:16:11","fileurl":""},{"id":116149,"heading":"Your flippant attitude towards security is frightening.","article":"You obviously don't take security culture seriously. Just some advice, but if you don't watch your own back, ain't nobody gonna do it for you.\r\n\r\nHere, read up:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.radio4all.org\/aia\/sec_basics.html\r\n\r\n\r\nreaplayer is spyware. Any activist that uses it is a fool. The Feds probably know everything about you.\r\n\r\n","author":"snoopdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 13:27:18","modified":"2004-08-26 13:27:18","fileurl":""},{"id":116152,"heading":"'The Feds probably know everything about you.'","article":"what an idiot.\r\nof course they do.  To assume they don't is stupid.  Tell you what, you just keep hiding under your bed where you're 'safe' untill they come for you.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 13:59:02","modified":"2004-08-26 13:59:02","fileurl":""},{"id":116165,"heading":"&quot;To assume they don't is stupid.&quot;","article":"Speak fo yoself, nigga. The feds ain'got shit on me. I dont use bloatware encrypted with sniffers. Just a matta a time for they lock you up. Ask Sherman Austin, it happened to him.","author":"snoopdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 16:29:24","modified":"2004-08-26 16:29:24","fileurl":""},{"id":116169,"heading":"uh snoopie...","article":"You aint really black, you're just another bozo.  And I'm not hosting any stupid  white boy bomb info.   There aint no laws agin' what I'm doing. \r\nYet.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 17:55:36","modified":"2004-08-26 17:55:36","fileurl":""},{"id":116171,"heading":"&quot;aint really black&quot;","article":"Damn, ain't you seen nunna my videos?\r\n\r\nSumbudy cap dat cracka's white ass.\r\n\r\n\r\nShoot. He dont know a damm thang.","author":"snoopdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 18:51:38","modified":"2004-08-26 18:51:38","fileurl":""},{"id":116172,"heading":"I thought so...","article":"Like The People Who Do That said,  you're as black as Eminem.\r\nDickweed.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 19:00:54","modified":"2004-08-26 19:00:54","fileurl":""},{"id":116177,"heading":"so...","article":"Bump\r\nTo previous comment. \r\nhttp:\/\/la.indymedia.org\/news\/2004\/08\/116028_comment.php#116032\r\n\r\nWell worth a listen.\r\n\r\n One Big Property Party, Part One \r\nhttp:\/\/radio4houston.org\/takingaim\/takingaim040629.m3u\r\n One Big Property Party, Part Two\r\nhttp:\/\/radio4houston.org\/takingaim\/takingaim040706.m3u\r\n\r\nor hide under your bed.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-26 22:48:05","modified":"2004-08-26 22:48:05","fileurl":""},{"id":116205,"heading":"Sheepdog","article":"&quot;We are being played like a tin drum as we get herded like farm animals by fear of OUR government. It's time to make it OURS again.&quot;\r\n\r\nJust curious, but how do you propose we do that? Being that we're the feeble, helpless, herded, bewildered, timid, deer-in-the-headlights eyed masses?","author":"Leapfrog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 13:38:12","modified":"2004-08-27 13:38:12","fileurl":""},{"id":116211,"heading":"the insturmentality of change?","article":"First and foremost is the necessity to bury all the fractionalizing by outcasting the tactic of division, when it occurs; actively denouncing it and working seriously together despite the forces brought to bare that amplify emotional inconsequential differences.\r\nRace for instance.\r\nWe all are under this yoke and pointing out this fact and the consequences thereof like a life spent fearing the whims of government piloted by creatures of exploitation is essential to begin with.\r\nThen comes mobilization and direct action or inaction as in a general strike or boycott, on selected sectors of the machine.  Mostly, it must be a cultural revolution which views the possession of wealth\/power as the result of greed and criminal behavior as destructive irresponsibility.  Like a civilized person views rape or theft in which case it resembles.                   \r\nWe must shun persons who cherish wealth for its own sake and instead  cultivate an awareness of true worth.  The other road leads to tyranny... againts an inter-isolated mass of occupied people who are too involved in squabbling about small scraps left over from the pillage.\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 14:55:31","modified":"2004-08-27 14:55:31","fileurl":""},{"id":116215,"heading":"If I understand you correctly...","article":"Your method is:\r\n\r\n1. Put aside petty difference and unite for the common good.\r\n\r\n2. Mobolize and boycott the current government.\r\n\r\n3. Cultivate a cultural revolution where wealth is disparaged.\r\n\r\nAnything else? How long will this plan take to implement, and what will be the results?","author":"leapfrog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 15:13:40","modified":"2004-08-27 15:13:40","fileurl":""},{"id":116216,"heading":"That sounds a lot like Amish life.","article":"less all the Jesus talk.","author":"leapfrog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 15:20:22","modified":"2004-08-27 15:20:22","fileurl":""},{"id":116217,"heading":"well, damn...","article":"Who knows what a truly cohesive culture would be like, world wide with flourishing cultural evolution uninhibited by the sociopaths hooked on power endorphans or twisted environmental references killing their natural bond with the rest of humanity... but it could be beautiful.\r\nTime lines are always uncertain dependent upon ambient factors                 such as new technologies , or mistakes made by the rulers in                                being generally clueless about the true nature of humanity.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 15:23:11","modified":"2004-08-27 15:23:11","fileurl":""},{"id":116218,"heading":"That sounds a lot like Amish life","article":"The Amish are good people.   My grandfather was a surgeon and he told me they ALWAYS paid for his services, in cash, on time.  Even if the entire community had to raise the money.\r\nNuff said.\r\nWe don't have to limit technology to have a comfortable creative life as caretakers of this world upon which we belong.\r\nJust the waste and despoiling.\r\nWe can do better than this.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 15:40:01","modified":"2004-08-27 15:40:01","fileurl":""},{"id":116222,"heading":"It all sounds so pretty...","article":"but is it really possible?\r\n\r\nI'd like to elieve there's more than this too. But we're so tied up by the current system, which all can be rationalized to be tied to human nature and the essence of man. So much apathy out there. Won't the Sun supernova and end all life on this planet long before these meat-puppets jaunting about become self-aware and decide to polish up this turd we're cruising about the universe upon?\r\n\r\nDon't mean to sound bleak, but I don't see it in the cards for this race.","author":"leapfrog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 17:37:16","modified":"2004-08-27 17:37:16","fileurl":""},{"id":116223,"heading":"wow","article":"talk about jumping into the abiss.\r\nDid you ever see the poster that had a mouse giving the finger to an eagel bearing down on it?\r\n:>)","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 17:50:07","modified":"2004-08-27 17:50:07","fileurl":""},{"id":116225,"heading":"You Bastard","article":"-talk about jumping into the abiss [ abyss]\r\nDid you ever see the poster that had a mouse giving the finger to an eagel bearing down on it? \r\n:>)\r\nAuthor: Sheepdog-","author":"Spelling Police","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 17:53:24","modified":"2004-08-27 17:53:24","fileurl":""},{"id":116228,"heading":"Not the abyss.","article":"We've only got a few hundred years left. Maybe 1000 at the most. Better do something quick.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.exploratorium.edu\/climate\/primer\/index.html","author":"leapfrog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 18:23:05","modified":"2004-08-27 18:23:05","fileurl":""},{"id":116235,"heading":"philosopher doggie","article":"&quot;Time lines are always uncertain dependent upon ambient factors such as new technologies , or mistakes made by the rulers in being generally clueless about the true nature of humanity&quot;\r\n\r\nnew technologies from a shivering mass of equal proles working the fields?..and i guess most make mistakes about the true nature of humanity.\r\nit sure sounded good on 1st pass.","author":"Don Key","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 20:39:48","modified":"2004-08-27 20:39:48","fileurl":""},{"id":116243,"heading":"most make mistakes about the true nature of humanity","article":"Well, yes we do make mistakes.  But my mistakes won't kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions or billions of peace loving innocents.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 22:01:15","modified":"2004-08-27 22:01:15","fileurl":""},{"id":116252,"heading":"like anyone without power","article":"so your solution is to abolish positions of power?\r\nLook, i would love to do that, and abolish govts, but we're stuck with them(necessary crap). It's the necessary part we can't get around.\r\nyou don't really think anarchy would work, do you?","author":"Don Key","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-27 23:07:32","modified":"2004-08-27 23:07:32","fileurl":""},{"id":116255,"heading":"look...","article":"Only in a society that has found equilibrium with its needs and the burden it imposes on sustainable  resources with equitable distribution of same that anarchy will flourish.  Its time is not yet in this time of chaos.  Let's begin with a real democracy.  The worship of wealth is and always has been a vortex into which souls have been drawn.  Let us be aware of this and the attendant loss of fellowship this causes.\r\nThere are just too many forces in conflict driving the acquisition of material goods at the expense of survival to worry about putting the fine touches on a working utopia..\r\nI'm talking about sanity in correcting the sickness that has eaten the flesh and blood from the garden and its people.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 00:33:24","modified":"2004-08-28 00:33:24","fileurl":""},{"id":116263,"heading":"embrace the chaos","article":"Anarchy can't wait for the soup to simmer down.  Anarchy now is the spoon to stir it all up.\r\n\r\nAnarchy is the embrace of chaos, acceptance of difference, and the never ending negotiations based on mutual respect.  It's the destruction of the ego to create society, and the energizing of the self from participation in society.\r\n\r\nI'm more rational, but I like the mystical aspects of morality.  I like the idea of instant karma, and eternal retribution, and not only because I want to visualize Dick Cheney being speared by demons after he's decapitated in a freak necktie accident.  I just like the idea that, even in the unknowable, there's somthing that's right, and something that's wrong.... it's just not very clear.\r\n\r\nIn fact, I like the idea of something wrong, because I want to test the idea.  We're always finding out that what's wrong is now okay, and what was once just fine, is now not good at all.  These changes aren't merely the assertions of subjectivity, but changes that help clarify objectivity.\r\n\r\nSubjective decisions about what to observe will result in objective knowledge about reality.  This, in turn, alters subjectivity.  Do this over and over, faster and faster, and like a tiger chasing it's tail, everything blurs.\r\n\r\nAnd then, you end up with a plate of pancakes and butter.\r\n\r\nWhich brings us to Little Black Sambo, and racism in a subjective society, and blackness in India, and Gandhi, and salt, and the Britons being kicked out.  I always like anything that leads me back to the Britons being kicked out of a colony.","author":"more rational","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 07:23:13","modified":"2004-08-28 07:23:13","fileurl":""},{"id":116266,"heading":"Great advice, sheepdog.","article":">>The worship of wealth is and always has been a vortex into which souls have been drawn. Let us be aware of this and the attendant loss of fellowship this causes. <<\r\n\r\nAnd brush your teeth after every meal. Tooth decay is a bitch.\r\n\r\nOh yeah, and never look directly at the sun.\r\n\r\nOh and, always have ample lighting when you're reading. Don't wanna go blind.\r\n\r\nOh and wait thirty minutes after eating before going for a swim, else you may get cramps and drowned.\r\n\r\nNever fart in a crowded elevator. It's rude.\r\n\r\nMoney is the root of all evil. Oh wait, sheepdog already mentioned that.\r\n\r\nDon't drink too much coffee. And never before bedtime.\r\n\r\nThere's a fine line between love and hate. There's an even finer line between genius and insanity. The later can be defined, though, with a simple review of sheepdogs prose.\r\n\r\nDon't sit too close to the television.\r\n\r\nBe sure to drink your ovaltine. Don't give your kid a bee bee gun for Christmas. He may shoot his eye out.\r\n\r\nMasturbation leads to harry palms.\r\n\r\nIt's better to be thought a fool, then to type some blather up and post it on indymedia and remove all doubts.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nThere are just too many forces in conflict driving the acquisition of material goods at the expense of survival to worry about putting the fine touches on a working utopia.. \r\nI'm talking about sanity in correcting the sickness that has eaten the flesh and blood from the garden and its peo","author":"Phil O. Sepher","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 09:21:47","modified":"2004-08-28 09:21:47","fileurl":""},{"id":116267,"heading":"More great advice.","article":"Know the difference between shit and shinola.\r\n\r\nLord loves a workin' man.\r\n\r\nDon't trust whitey.\r\n\r\nSee a doctor and get rid of it.","author":"Navin R. Johnson","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 09:28:17","modified":"2004-08-28 09:28:17","fileurl":""},{"id":116272,"heading":" Axiomatic rhetoric for the blind and challenged.","article":"\r\n' It's better to be thought a fool, then to type some blather up and post it on indymedia and remove all doubts.'\r\n\r\nYou people could use your own advice.  Hey, if you're going to read what this humble dog types, it really doesn't seem like my problem.  Particularly in a question - response interchange.  I guess some people can't see the obvious and are annoyed by this when these ideas are surfaced.  They are not complex ideas.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 11:59:26","modified":"2004-08-28 11:59:26","fileurl":""},{"id":116273,"heading":"Sheepdogisms","article":"\r\napparently this one set him off.\r\n\r\nThe worship of wealth is and always has been a vortex into which souls have been drawn. Let us be aware of this and the attendant loss of fellowship this causes.\r\n\r\nThe truth is that this picture, which is built from the direction and control of the interests of their owners  of wealth being a virtue is not true.\r\nBut this doesn't stop the constant sea of propaganda to promote the opposite view point.  These things don't just happen by accident.  Wealth requires worship.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 12:45:24","modified":"2004-08-28 12:45:24","fileurl":""},{"id":116275,"heading":"&quot;set him off&quot;","article":"your axioms are simply cliches restated. This is what you spend your time doing. When someone asks you a question you don't know the answer too, just be honest and say so. To plagiarize other people's chliche axioms is rude, crude, and in bad form. Don't do it. For shame. Go hang your head.","author":"restated","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 13:15:04","modified":"2004-08-28 13:15:04","fileurl":""},{"id":116278,"heading":"&quot;But my mistakes won't kill&quot;","article":"You can't make any mistakes. Because you don't offer any solutions. Only banter and blather, mantras and \r\nmattoes.\r\n\r\nShibboleths won't get the job done.\r\n\r\nMoney is the root of all evil. Oh, that's rich.","author":"restated","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 13:22:16","modified":"2004-08-28 13:22:16","fileurl":""},{"id":116280,"heading":"&quot;doesn't stop the constant sea of propaganda&quot;","article":"You have nothing. Nothing. Nothing at all. To say.\r\n\r\nDo you?\r\n\r\nThe sea of propaganda promotes wealth?\r\n\r\nDesire for wealth is promoted by the have-NOTS. Those who obsess over wealth the most, are those who desire it the most.\r\n\r\nTry going a month without money.\r\n\r\nHuman nature is survival. Survival is greed. They are inextricably linked. \r\n\r\nWant utopia? Find a way to feed, shelter, clothe everyone and give them all everything they ever want. Either that or change the human gene and breed out the survival instinct.\r\n\r\nYou blather is nothing. It's weak. Hollow. Empty.\r\n\r\nMay as well be:\r\n\r\nWords words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words .","author":"restated","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 13:36:43","modified":"2004-08-28 13:36:43","fileurl":""},{"id":116282,"heading":"aw shucks","article":"next time you can use the ignore feature if you get so worked up by my blather....\r\nchuckle","author":"Sheepdog.","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 13:58:01","modified":"2004-08-28 13:58:01","fileurl":""},{"id":116283,"heading":"no wait.","article":"You want a special solution.\r\nOkay, here it is.\r\nEverybody has a special secret weapon of my design that used sub ether scaller weapondry in order to target any individual anywhere through the j axis.  It will be cheap and easy to make according to my web published design.  You made me do it.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 14:04:41","modified":"2004-08-28 14:04:41","fileurl":""},{"id":116285,"heading":"Okay.","article":"I just thought since you spend so much time barking about the problems that you might have some solutions.\r\n\r\n\r\nBark on, little bow-wow.","author":"R.E. Pete","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 14:19:38","modified":"2004-08-28 14:19:38","fileurl":""},{"id":116286,"heading":"solutions","article":"geez...\r\nI already have offered some.    The long solution and the short messy one.\r\nTrivializing them doesn't make them ineffective or maybe you just jumped in here to beat the rug.  Feel free to leave...","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 14:27:53","modified":"2004-08-28 14:27:53","fileurl":""},{"id":116289,"heading":"&quot;already have offered some&quot;","article":"No you haven't.","author":"R.E. Stated","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 15:12:32","modified":"2004-08-28 15:12:32","fileurl":""},{"id":116290,"heading":"&quot;already have offered some&quot;","article":"No you haven't. What you offered was empty worthless rhetoric. No wonder the feeble masses aren't listening to you. You're not saying anything. You're relationship with them is like Jimmy Hendrix to a white man. They can listen to you all day and still not hear you.","author":"R.E. Stated","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 15:15:08","modified":"2004-08-28 15:15:08","fileurl":""},{"id":116291,"heading":"&quot;Let's begin with a real democracy.&quot;","article":"Okay. I'll bite. How do we do that?","author":"R.E. Stated","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 15:21:55","modified":"2004-08-28 15:21:55","fileurl":""},{"id":116301,"heading":"Micromanagement Inc.","article":"I'm sorry if your vision is limited to instructions on a episodic, clearly diagrammed, printed sheet. \r\nI said it would be a cultural revolution.  I offered some VERY SIMPLE                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       paradymes that could be implemented given some IMAGINATION on anyone's personal level.  All it would take to start to effect change would be for the idea to spread.\r\nFor instance in regards to direct action for ostentatious displays of wealth:\r\nPoint and laugh ...the image that wealth grants someone with wisdom, is a steady under current in image control and needs to be shredded. \r\n One would target...\r\nIdiots driving New Empty hummers with one passenger ( themself )\r\nIdiots in or with V8 jet boats.\r\nIdiots who are concerned about conformist consumerism for status\r\n\r\nAnd for someone who generate meaningless BW you sure are engaged with me.  Okay I've noticed you.  When are you going to send me flowers?\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 17:59:49","modified":"2004-08-28 17:59:49","fileurl":""},{"id":116303,"heading":"Dear Sheepdog:","article":"and to all those that detest wealth. If you are all truly serious about how much you detest wealth, I will give you my P.O. Box address and you can make the checks out to me if you're feeling the need to lighten your bank accounts. Lead by example. Get rid of all that extra fiat currency you have laying around. I promise to use my new found wealth only for good.\r\n\r\nLet me know. K?","author":"floatser","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 18:21:40","modified":"2004-08-28 18:21:40","fileurl":""},{"id":116304,"heading":"Sweet Floatster...","article":"What I have ain't exactly Wealth.\r\nTell you what hombre, I'll Take half of everything I possess and put in into a general fund that the Rockefeller, Melon, Morgan, Bush, Kerry etc. Families also contribute into with the same percentage ( it should be more ) and that means 50%.    That means EVERYTHING.  Trusts, Tax exempt institutions, offshore holdings and accounts etc. etc. etc.\r\nThe common fund will be driven by popular referendum.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 18:32:53","modified":"2004-08-28 18:32:53","fileurl":""},{"id":116309,"heading":"good idea sheepdog","article":"Someone needs to fire Donald Trump's haircutter.","author":"more rational","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"image\/gif","created":"2004-08-28 19:40:08","modified":"2005-08-15 03:01:36","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/08\/trump.gif","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/08\/trump.gif"}},{"id":116314,"heading":"I'm with ya sheep!","article":"You set up the fund and go first, and I'm right behind you. Lead the way, chum.","author":"Jack Boot","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 20:19:02","modified":"2004-08-28 20:19:02","fileurl":""},{"id":116315,"heading":"&quot;Contribute 50% to a fund&quot;","article":"Already got dibs on that idea, sheepdog. Call it the Federal budget. We thank you for your contributions.","author":"Uncle Sam","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 20:25:30","modified":"2004-08-28 20:25:30","fileurl":""},{"id":116326,"heading":"Who?","article":"&quot; 'We' thank you for your contributions. &quot;\r\nI said everyone, not just the wage earners.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 21:41:18","modified":"2004-08-28 21:41:18","fileurl":""},{"id":116327,"heading":"wait a minute","article":"COMMON Fund for Everyday people!!!!!!!!!!!\r\nI knew it, of course---Commies--or socialist(more realistic) or even Liberals!! GREENS????!! or the nouveau pinkys?..is arnold in the house?\r\n","author":"near maniacal, driving, scumbag capitalist","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 21:41:46","modified":"2004-08-28 21:41:46","fileurl":""},{"id":116328,"heading":"this isn't a very friendly thread...","article":"but this is what happens when you threaten even with blather, the privileges of wealth and control.  And the idea of fair  resource distribution.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 21:52:10","modified":"2004-08-28 21:52:10","fileurl":""},{"id":116331,"heading":"uh oh---serious shit now","article":"justify this statement\r\n\r\n[ To plagiarize other people's chliche [sp]  axioms is rude, crude- ]\r\n\r\nThat's a serious charge without references to back it up.  I can't even type without being accused of quoting without acknowledgment.\r\nI Am Sheepdog.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 22:46:31","modified":"2004-08-28 22:46:31","fileurl":""},{"id":116333,"heading":"you said:","article":"&quot;money is the root of all evil&quot; or something thereabouts. It's cliche. Its shop worn. It's been done. Think up your own material.","author":"cheeng","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-28 23:14:02","modified":"2004-08-28 23:14:02","fileurl":""},{"id":116336,"heading":" '-or something thereabouts-'","article":"that correct.  You win.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-29 00:22:02","modified":"2004-08-29 00:22:02","fileurl":""},{"id":116346,"heading":"&quot;You win.&quot;","article":"Plagiarism can be the theft of intellectual property, not just the exact words.\r\n\r\nAnyway, do you now consider yourself such serious writer that you take accusations of plagiarism so gravely? From what I've seen of your work, you don't have much to worry about.","author":"cheeng","parent_id":116028,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-08-29 13:16:48","modified":"2004-08-29 13:16:48","fileurl":""}]}