{"article":{"id":113594,"heading":"Bob Avakian Video Presentation- July 8th Lemmle Theater","author":"Pipard","created":"2004-06-30 02:45:53","modified":"2013-11-11 00:30:17","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:30:17","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><body><p>n 2003 Chairman Bob Avakian delivered an historic talk in the United States. This 5-VHS or 4-DVD set, with Spanish translation, combines materials from two amazing events. <br><br> This talk, followed by questions and answers, is a wide-ranging revolutionary journey, covering many topics. It breaks down the very nature of the society we live in and how humanity has come to a time where a radically different society is possible. It takes us deep into the heart of the horrors we see around us &ndash; from the oppression of whole peoples and parts of the world to what underlies brutal wars of domination; why we live in a world where profound poverty, starvation and exploitation co-exists with unprecedented wealth. From the American nightmare to a sweeping vision of a whole new world, he breaks it all down, and shows how and why a radically different world can be brought forward. <br><br> If you&rsquo;ve ever questioned why Black people and others are oppressed in America, why some people work with their minds while others slave in back-breaking labor all their lives; if you&rsquo;ve wondered about the role of religion in society, or whether the problem is human nature; if you&rsquo;ve wondered why the spread of America&rsquo;s so-called freedom and democracy comes wrapped in war and deadly destruction; if you&rsquo;ve wondered if a better world is possible &ndash; you won&rsquo;t want to miss this talk. <br><br> This video\/DVD is full of heart and soul, humor and seriousness. It will challenge you and set your heart and mind to flight. <br><br>  <br>  <br> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br><br> BOB AVAKIAN is a creative and wide-ranging thinker who, at the same time, maintains a profound sense of the actual struggles, trends and sentiments among the masses, the movements of opposition, and society broadly. And, he is the leader of the RCP, USA, a Party which is seriously setting its sight on the seizure of power right within the U.S. itself, and the revolutionary transformation of society as part of the world proletarian revolution, and he is at the same time a very important leader of the international revolutionary movement and the international communist movement. He is one of those truly rare individuals who emerge only occasionally as an especially concentrated expression of the very best of what the revolutionary people and their struggles can forge and bring to the forefront at certain junctures in history. &ldquo;REVOLUTION: Why It&rsquo;s Necessary, Why It&rsquo;s Possible, What It&rsquo;s All About&rdquo; will allow you to spend a day with this unique leader. He will take you on a journey that can change your life. <br><br>  <br><br> Some comments from people who attended the talk: <br>  <br> &ldquo;It was like hearing Mao speak on the Long March.&rdquo; [A young Black proletarian woman] <br><br> &ldquo;If my people had a leader like this, we would have been free a long time ago.&rdquo; [A young worker from the Mixtec national minority of Mexico] <br><br> &ldquo;Quite frankly, many people have never heard anyone say the things Chairman Avakian said, or have ever heard anyone talk about this world, this social system, this society, and another possible society and way of living in the way he did before. This talk addressed questions that literally millions of people all over the world are agonizing over at this moment.&rdquo; [A communist artist] <br><br> &ldquo;He was showing the kind of system we live in and what it does to all humanity... he was inviting people to rise up their sights, their views and look at things at this moment of history we&rsquo;re in and the need to transform and change things.&rdquo; [A young construction worker from Latin America] <br><br> &ldquo;He speaks from the heart and at the same time with such a sweeping understanding, with total resolution, and not just with hatred for the bourgeoisie but confidence in the masses of people.&rdquo; [a young immigrant woman from South Asia] <br><br> &ldquo;A journey to be savored.&rdquo; [a veteran communist) <br>  <br> <\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"&quot;Revolution. Why it's Necessary!  Why it's Possible!  What it's All About!&quot;  \r\n July 8th - 7:30pm - Lemmle Theater - 1332 Second St.,  Santa Monica\r\nA Video Presentation of a series of talks given by Revolutionary Communist Party Chairman Bob Avakian. ","numcomment":35,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2004\/06\/113594.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":113600,"heading":"is this where my donation to not in our name went?","article":"Is this where some of that NION money was diverted?  ay ay ay\r\n\r\nFollow the money.","author":"more rational","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-06-30 04:07:45","modified":"2004-06-30 04:07:45","fileurl":""},{"id":113619,"heading":"Searching for Chairman Avakian","article":"I thought this guy was off in Paris. What's he doing, running the revolution from afar? He should stay there; he will only make the left look foolish if he comes back. Anyone who uses Stalin and Mao as role models in 2004 is entirely, completely, out of it. Unless he's being paid by the CIA to behave like a buffoon in order to discredit the anti-capitalist movement.\r\n       By the way, who is paying his bills in Paris? His daddy? His naive followers? Army Intelligence?","author":"Bewildered","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-06-30 14:31:53","modified":"2004-06-30 14:31:53","fileurl":""},{"id":113625,"heading":"Searching for Your Brain","article":"Mr. Avakian is not living in Paris, does not come from a privileged background--he's just a redneck with a brain, which the U.S. doesn't have too many of--and he does not support the legacy of Stalin.  The RCP is a &quot;revolutionary&quot; communist group that rejects the corrupt regimes of the former U.S.S.R, China, Cuba,\r\nand North Korea, and the conformist tendencies of \r\nother socialist organizations who tend to cop out and support democrats when push comes to shove.  The RCP supports NION, but is not the primary organization behind it.  And the RCP never provided a haven for snitches and CIA spooks either--don't need to comment on the other organizations that did.\r\n\r\nFor the simple-minded who will start to blather, &quot;But communism is evil--look at Stalin&quot;\r\n- Well, look at the capitalists of bush, clinton, et. al.\r\nand how many people have now died under their domestics and foreign policies; bush executed 152\r\npeople as governor of Texas; bush and clinton contributed to the death of 1\/2 million iraqis under \r\n13 years of sanctions; how many did Ike wipe out in Hiroshima and Nagasaki; Oh, and don't forget that the U.S. did business with a fascist capitalist dictator both in the past (Hitler) and a secular dictator in the present (Saddam).  Need I go on...Oh and we still do business with China even after they squash pro-democracy movements (they still have favored trade nation status)... Need I go on.\r\n\r\n&quot;But communism is dead...look at Russia...&quot;\r\nWhat am I supposed to be looking at?  Nothing more than another bourgeois communist government.\r\n\r\nReagan is dead.  Communism is still here.  Who were the only faction that continuously challenged Saddam in Iraq and really celebrated his fall?  CP Iraq.\r\nWho gave Saddam a list of communists in Iraq so he\r\ncould wipe them out?  The U.S.\r\n\r\nGet a clue lefties and move on...  ","author":"simple-minded lefties and righties suck","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-06-30 17:14:57","modified":"2004-06-30 17:14:57","fileurl":""},{"id":113627,"heading":"communism again?","article":"Every time communism fails the lie is the same;  &quot;That wasn't TRUE communism.&quot;\r\n\r\nDeluded fools.\r\n\r\nAs further evidence communism stinks, why don't all the communists in free countries get together and start their own commune?\r\n\r\n<CRICKETS CHIRPING>","author":"same old lies","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-06-30 20:08:47","modified":"2004-06-30 20:08:47","fileurl":""},{"id":113629,"heading":"Avakian doesn't like Stalin? Never would've guessed","article":"       Let's see; Avakian thinks that Mao ran a wonderful government and deserves to be emulated. Good old Avak also thinks that workers should rise up and install a regime like Mao's here in the US - presumably with Avakian holding the same position of supreme dictator that Mao had.  Now Mao himself was a big fan of Stalin, and he always maintained that he was a hero who made some serious &quot;mistakes&quot; (which presumably included murdering about 30 million people, exiling entire nationalities to Siberia, and delivering such a blow to the Soviet economy with his crash collectivization program in the countryside that Russia has not recovered from it to this day). Mao deliberately modeled his own government after Stalin's in many ways, and even imitated his lunatic collectvize the peasants campaign and his crash industrialization campaign with equally foolhardy schemes of his own - which ended, like Stalin's in the deaths of millions of people.  But Avakian loves Mao but rejects Stalin, according to one of our posters. Hmm, that seems a little, er, odd, doesn't it?  Could it be that good old Avak (or his C!A controllers) are in enough  contact with reality to at least know that a movement carrying the baggage of Stalin simply won't fly today? And that Mao's carrer as a Stalinist should not be emphasized? Or even that it should be denied?\r\n       By the way, what does good old Uncle Avakian think about the burning of books or the torture of people during the Cultural Revolution because of the alleged misdeeds of their biological ancestors? Sounds just like something out of the Middle Ages, doesn't it? Or perhaps something out of the 1930's  in the Soviet Union? And what does he think about Mao's support of Pol Pot? At the same time when the US was also supporting Pol Pot against Vietnam? \r\n       One last question: since it is a good idea to penalize people (in Mao's view) because their ancestors were reactionaries, where does that leave Chairman Avakian, the son of a federal judge? And where would that have left Mao himself,  if it was applied to him, since his father was a well-to-do peasant and something of an exploiter of his fellow peasants? Mao's father a kulak! What a scandal! We must not let the children, I mean the rank and file RCP members, ever know about this!","author":"Bewildered","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-06-30 20:54:59","modified":"2004-06-30 20:54:59","fileurl":""},{"id":113642,"heading":"rumors","article":"I heard that the RCP is really tiny in new york and on the east coast.  Is this true?\r\n\r\nThey're pretty big in LA compared to other red groups, because there's a lack of competition, except perhaps the IAC.  They also have the celebrity support via the Artist Network and RnR fronts.\r\n\r\nIt just makes me wonder about the motivations behind the big NION effort to go to NYC with LA folks.  I mean above and beyond getting more people there.\r\n\r\nWell, whatevah.  They at least try to organize the angry kids!  Though, it sometimes seems like &quot;radical cheerleaders&quot; when the RCYB all wear the same tee shirt.  &quot;Gimme an R!&quot;\r\n\r\nLet's channel that energy into channeling more energy!\r\n\r\nThere are other formations out there, and other organizations.  Maybe they don't have the same angry rhetoric, but, they are fighting for the same thing.\r\n\r\nUltimately, if you don't vote for a Democrat, or for Nader, who are you going to vote for?  RCP or WWP candidates?\r\n\r\nWhat are the chances for developing revolution in America anyway?  I'm serious.  I see the history of socialism in the US, and it seems to be a release valve for tensions.   We seem to displace domestic tension by moving work away from the core, and then importing more goods to keep the people pacified.\r\n\r\nWhat do you think?","author":"more rational","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 01:16:38","modified":"2004-07-01 01:16:38","fileurl":""},{"id":113664,"heading":"still simple-minded leftism and righties","article":"Still more with the stalin allusions, character assasination by associating Mr. Avakian with a particular class ancestry, highlighting the lapses in Mao's legacy, acting like as if other socialist organizations aren't composed of angry young people either, with IAC and NION t-shirts all over their people as well, etc. etc. etc.\r\n\r\nfor the stalinists: you're not telling me anything I don't already know, what's your point?  this nation was predicated on the genocide of native americans, which predates stalin, pol pot, et. al. but yet I don't here any critique of that in the simplistic logic of the &quot;he supported him supported him&quot; argument.  I don't here any refuting of IBM and Ford's support of the national socialist party of Germany, or I.G. Farben and Presscott Bush's continued support during WWII and the genocide.  I don't here any critique of how the U.S. provided a haven for the Ghelen Org and other S.S. who were allowed to bring their genetic science here and publish their articles in Margaret Sanger's medical journal.  I'm still waiting for some acknowledgement of the CIA's support of Saddam's rise to power and how about the creation of the Taliban.  Hell, I'll even entertain the flip side of stalin's attempt at genocide, like how he and the russian winter were the factors that defeated hitler's army as the U.S. waited 2 years to cross central Europe while Jews burned. \r\n- I don't deny that many in the legacy of marx come from the bourgeoisie and privilege, but what's your point?  How do you expect people to change if they don't renounce their class privilege?  Does the Anglo middle class in the anti-war movement renounce their privilege?  Yes, many who get it do, but others cling to their privilege or fall back on their xenophobia and prejudices when it comes to things like immigrant rights.  I appreciate answer's support of the recent immigrant rights march, but where were their members?  Hmmm.  I counted like 20 people with IAC t-shirts, where were all your white liberal friends.  Why can't KPFK create a diverse board without white liberals complaining about &quot;mexicans&quot; taking over?  Why did Armando Gundino have such a hard time becoming the first Chicano program director?  \r\nBetter yet, why is it that crap like David Icke is peddled during their fund drive, while certain DJs get chastised for playing Mr. Avakian on the airwaves?\r\nYes, I went on a tangent, but there are other things to be bewildered about other than the tired stalin stigma that's not only reinforced by former communists, but also the so called &quot;liberals,&quot; and the current establishment.  Hell, if I wanted to hear that argument again I would have tuned into FOXNEWS or AM talk radio.  \r\n\r\n&quot;Revolution is Not Possible in the U.S&quot;\r\n- Well no shit, especially right now.  A viable communist regime can't exist right now without being undermined by an imperialist country like the U.S., UK, France, or even Russia and China.  So its not simply that &quot;communism doesn't work,&quot; because it can't be allowed to develop under imperial juggernauts that perpetuate  transnational capitalism and its exploitative policies.  the mere word &quot;communism&quot; is so stigmatized without rationale in many quarters of the world that peasants are too afraid to learn what it really means, and thus, submit to the capitalist system that perpetuates their inability to merely secure food to eat.  \r\nBut Nepal is trying it out right now, with women at the forefront of its leadership, and thus, Colin Powell pays the anachronistic monarchy of that nation a visit to make sure they cockblock it (literally) at every corner.  \r\n&quot;Oh, but they're next to China..&quot;  And your point would be?  Even if they get supplies from the bourgeois party of Peiking, well duh, who else is going to help them?  The white supremacist mafia in Russia?  The white supremacist mafia in the U.S. who only sells arms to arabs like Saddam and israelis like Sharon who use them to wipe out their own people....\r\nGet back to me when you have a more rational argument there...\r\n\r\nAlso, many white liberals tend to invest too much in the here and now.  We are not talking about an immediate revolution, but laying the ground work for one that our children and grand children will be able to enact.  In native american tradition, its not just about survival now, but the survival of your offspring.  As the administrations of both parties continue to gut social security and the current governor of California just laid a fat debt on the child and grandchildren of this state's future, you may want to ask yourself what you really have done to secure your children's future.  How will they survive?  And I'm not talking about cars and university educations--the trappings of privilege nowardays.\r\n\r\nI'll admit, voting bush out of office is a good start, but kerry is still a part of the same ilk.  I like nader, but he just lost the green party candidacy.  I'll admit that maybe voting strategically now may be an answer (no pun intended), but what about the future.\r\n\r\nbefore the european colonizer brought disease, genocide, and pre-capitalist mercantilism to this country (predicated on christianity and lies to rob the native people of this land to create agricultural surpluses for world markets)  there was no such thing as private property, and leaders were voted in by a democratic vote, not bloodlines and heredity (we still have that, people, let's not be naive), and were the poorest people in the tribe.  women had rights too (and please stop if you think your going to go off on pre-columbian imperial empires like the aztecs in the south)...and before my reactionary colleagues start griping about &quot;they were wiped out by superior technology&quot;--well, not to sound too christian, but, what do you expect when one is driven by the demon of greed and racism...look at what the U.S. is doing in Iraq.\r\n\r\nas it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the future (that is if the U.S., the only country to use nuclear weapons, doesn't decide to kill us all because the capitalists can't make any more profits).\r\n\r\npeace...","author":"rationality is a construction","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 14:45:59","modified":"2004-07-01 14:45:59","fileurl":""},{"id":113667,"heading":"fuck communism","article":"this nation was predicated on the genocide of native americans, which predates stalin, pol pot, et. al. but yet I don't here any critique of that in the simplistic logic of the &quot;he supported him supported him&quot; argument. \r\n\r\n----- As another mainstream victim cultural marxism, you buy into this baloney that all was a utopian paradise in the Americas before the White Man showed up.  \r\n\r\n-------Far from the gentle proto-environmentalists depicted in today's liberal anti-history classrooms, American Indians were gaggles of warring tribes who practiced all manner of brutality against one another.  They didn't even have horses until Whitey showed up.\r\n\r\n------Besides, American Indians migrated here from Russia, so they are also non-indiginous.\r\n\r\n------They lost to the white man because their technology was inferior.  If they'd had an Industrial Revolution of their own, they could have blown up the Mayflower with cannon.\r\n\r\n------Lastly, all of that happened centuries ago.  Only the stupid take responsibility for events they had nothing to do with; to do so is to take on a needless burden of guilt.  Guilty white liberals are the dumbest people on earth.  The Indians of old didn't  complain about the &quot;unfairness&quot; of losing wars; they were, after all, warriors.  Only the modern no-balls AIM terrorist of today whines and complains.\r\n\r\nAs further evidence communism stinks, why don't all the communists in free countries get together and start their own commune? \r\n\r\n<CRICKETS CHIRPING>","author":"still the same old lies","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 15:22:00","modified":"2004-07-01 15:22:00","fileurl":""},{"id":113669,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"idiot: &quot;Lastly, all of that happened centuries ago.&quot;\r\n\r\nmmmm....exaggerating time to lessen your racist guilt?\r\n\r\n...one prerequisite you should make for posters is that they, at the very least, should be able to count....\r\n\r\n...complex thought being completely unavailble to republican, we should at least be fair....","author":"KPC","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 15:33:32","modified":"2004-07-01 15:33:32","fileurl":""},{"id":113670,"heading":"Wonderful Logic","article":"Hmm, let's see now. The fact that US corporations and political figures supported Hitler justifies the crimes of Stalin? Or makes it uncool to mention Stalin's mass murders? Why? And what does genocide against native peoples in North America by settlers have to do with questioning the RCP's acceptance of Stalinism\/Maoism? This makes on logical sense at all - or has the Second Great Helmsman, Chairman Avakian, declared logic a petty bourgeois vice that must be stamped out in the name of unity between the vanguard party and the working class?\r\n       On the issue of people being punished for the alleged crimes of their priveleged ancestors, I merely brought that up to point out the hypocrisy of the RCP glorifying the Cultural Revolution when both their US hero, Avakian,and Mao himself would have been purged if those standards were applied to them. Or are those two birds immune for some reason?\r\n     As far as KPFK goes, I don't know what kind of criticism program hosts are getting for playing Bob Avakian on the air. But the fact remains that he is frequently mentioned in the afternoon, and other RCP members are frequently interviewed. Can anyone imagine, if the RCP by some miracle actually took power in the US, RCP radio stations actually allowing \r\nnon-Maoist Marxist parties, left social democrats, or anarchists on the air? Not a chance. People fitting those three categories would be lucky if they escaped execution and were allowed to live out their lives in some labor camp in the Mojave Desert.\r\n     You think that people should censor themselves and never mention Stalin or the fact that the RCP follows Stalinist policies and accepts Stalinist\/Maoist political theories - theories that in the past have led to murder of genocidal proportions, economic failure, and political discontent leading to the outright restoration of particularly virulent forms of free market capitalism and exploitation? Well, forget it, pal. People have every right to be totally against capitalism and at the same time to be opposed to capitalism's first cousin - Stalinism. And to make that opposition known.","author":"Bewildered","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 15:45:44","modified":"2004-07-01 15:45:44","fileurl":""},{"id":113673,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"&quot;The fact that US corporations and political figures supported Hitler justifies the crimes of Stalin? Or makes it uncool to mention Stalin's mass murders? Why?&quot;\r\n\r\nYou idiot, are you so completely blinded by you bootlicking allegience to those who don't give a fuck about you that you cannot see what is obvious to all;\r\nthat you are wasting your time criticising a dead regime in a defucnt country that you do not live in and do not have a say in while you ignore the past and  current crimes of the extant government in the country you do live in and for which you are responsible.\r\n\r\nDo ya get it?  Will you EVER get it?\r\n\r\n...something tells me if you ever REALLY faced reality your head would fuckin' explode and the shit would be all over....both literally and figuratively.\r\n","author":"KPC","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 16:08:12","modified":"2004-07-01 16:08:12","fileurl":""},{"id":113676,"heading":"Criticiizing A Defunct Regime in a Dead Country","article":"Calm down. I'm afraid you missed the point entirely. I was not criicizing regimes that no longer exist, I was criticizing a political group in the USA (the RCP) which does indeed exist and would like us to accept discredited Stalinist\/Maoist programs and theories from the past. Comprende?  I've already pointed out the utter illogic of the statement that criticizing the crimes of Stalin and Mao means that the person voicing the criticism either ignores crimes like the extermination of native peoples or is actually in favor of them. Or did you fail to comprehend that as well?  Perhaps you are an example of people who graduated from disintegrating public school systems as capitalism moves into its death throes.","author":"Bewildered","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 16:57:19","modified":"2004-07-01 16:57:19","fileurl":""},{"id":113679,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"...calm down my ass, tovaritch...you're constructing a false argument in order to marginalize the RCP by floating boogeyman bullshit like &quot;death camps in the Mojave&quot;...\r\n\r\n...climb down of the high horse, asshole, no one is buying it.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"KCP","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 18:23:15","modified":"2004-07-01 18:23:15","fileurl":""},{"id":113680,"heading":"No one buying?","article":"What no one is buying is the horse manure peddled by the minor league Stalinists of the RCP. They would'nt have such a microscopically low membership if people were buying it - my guess that at least 10 percent of them are cops anyway - maybe more.","author":"Bewildered","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 18:29:35","modified":"2004-07-01 18:29:35","fileurl":""},{"id":113681,"heading":"Still Simple-Minded and Questionable Intentions","article":"The RCP has the largest membership of the CP organizations on the West Coast, as mentioned above by another socialist. Some of the other groups, with all due respect, like Freedom Road and CPUSA, insist on operating in secrecy, perhaps due to past CIA infiltration, but this tactic doesn't exactly encourage membership.  The RCP enjoys the support of other U.S. citizens, from scholars to professionals, and has the only bookstore that operates out of working class downtown L.A., with generous support among immigrants who have escaped the results of U.S. imperialism in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Mexico.\r\n\r\nMany of the RCYB are people of color who are obviously more intelligent than Mr. Bewildered Herd, who know their history and already know that stalin is no role model and Maoism can be extracted from its problematic history.  Nobody and no history is censored, except maybe anti-semitism and all that conspiracy mumbo jumbo peddled by other leftists who haven't learned about political economy.\r\n\r\nMr. Bewildered Herd gripes about the logic of my response and then imagines some orwellian communist future with concentration camps.  The only concentration camps in the desert are Manzanar and the others where the Japanese were interned during WWII. Learn your own history, please. Many of the RCP and RCYB are comrades with the anarchists and socialists that you insult in your own critique. Many have participated in the International Solidarity Movement, the anti-sweatshop movement, the gay rights movement, and the Justice for the Women of Juarez movement.  The youth are not gulliable and naive as you seem to believe they are.\r\n\r\nOh, and the KPFK thing, just ask Michael Slate and I think he \r\nwould disagree...\r\n\r\nYou seem so hellbent on discrediting the RCP that I would question your intentions. When you can offer some other alternatives to dialogue on, we can talk.\r\n\r\nPeace..\r\n\r\n","author":"man, you really are simple","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 19:00:47","modified":"2004-07-01 19:00:47","fileurl":""},{"id":113683,"heading":"CIA Infiltration","article":"Why would the CIA want to inflitrate the RCP? From what I can see, they or the FBI are probably running it. This outfit looks like it was founded for the purpose of making the left look like a laughing stock. \r\n     The RCP is for gay rights, eh? Well, that is fairly recent; they only supported rights for gays when they found out that their prior position that gays are bourgeois degenerates was costing them any hope of bringing in recruits. At one point the Log Cabin Republicans actually had a stand on homosexuality that was to the left or the RCP's.\r\n        There are not RCP labor camps in the Mojave Desert? Well, duh! You don't suppost that has anything to do with the fact that they have never held state power here, have you? (Guess what? They never will hold state power, either.) However, there are hundreds of  Stalinist and Maoist labor camps scattered over the countryside of the former USSR and China. However, I guess that we can rest assured that Stalinism and Maoism had nothing to do with the establishment of these camps, and we can also rest assured that the RCP, despite their loyalty to Mao and his lunatic &quot;thought&quot; would never dream of setting up such camps if they ever got power, eh? \r\n       By the way, why don't you tell us what you think of Mao's support of Pol Pot? Or his banning  of Shakespeare in China? Or his friendly alliance with Pakistan? Or his fawning over Nixon and Kissinger?  Or his insistence that, depite his &quot;mistakes,&quot; Stalin was a hero who deserved to be honored in China decades after his death? Or his argument that nuclear war wouln't be all that disasterous because enough Chinese would survive it to build &quot;socialism&quot; in the ruins? ","author":"Bewildered","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 19:35:14","modified":"2004-07-01 19:35:14","fileurl":""},{"id":113684,"heading":"&quot;Reparations&quot; look an awful lot like a boot in the ass","article":"mmmm....exaggerating time to lessen your racist guilt? \r\n\r\nGuilt?   For what?  Oh, I forgot, without &quot;guilt,&quot; the untalented have no way to get &quot;free stuff&quot; from those who do the work and create the wealth. \r\n\r\nIf guilty white liberals want to play that game, they should go right ahead, just make sure they pay &quot;reparations&quot; from their own bank accounts. \r\n\r\nAmerica is the Greatest Nation on Earth.  God exists.  Merit and hard work will always outrun sloth and static wealth.  I apologize for nothing and non-white races are owed nothing, except a fair shot at opportunity  and equal protection (not special protection) under the law.  \r\n\r\nSuccess in America goes to whomever can make products or services faster, cheaper or better; skin color and the rest of it is secondary.  \r\n\r\nGo see Stan in Accounting if you have any further complaints.\r\n\r\n","author":"fuck communism","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 19:52:31","modified":"2004-07-01 19:52:31","fileurl":""},{"id":113685,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"...OK...OK....jeez, for a &quot;guiltless&quot; racist, you certainly are doing a lot of crybaby blubbering...\r\n\r\n...ever think of doing therapy to address that po' white man's delusion you have?","author":"KPC","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-01 19:58:25","modified":"2004-07-01 19:58:25","fileurl":""},{"id":113696,"heading":"Mischaracterizations","article":"There are so many mischaracterizations on both sides of this debate, that something must be said. Before going into this I must say that I am not a spokesperson for the RCP, but I am familiar with their paper and to a lesser extent with their views.\r\n\r\nBoth &quot;more rational&quot; and &quot;bewildered&quot; are making some scandalous and I dare say, irrelevant assertions. \r\n\r\n1) Some of your accusations as to the nature of Not In Our Name come directly from rightwing attack stories from people like David Horowitz. My understanding is that the vast majority of activists in NION are not RCP supporters let alone members. But more importantly this whole line of attack you have brought out is irrelevant to any dealing with the content of what the RCP says and does, not to mention NION.\r\n\r\nI would refer those interested to this RW article dealing directly with the kind of assertions brought up by &quot;bewildered&quot; and &quot;rational&quot; : http:\/\/rwor.org\/a\/1239\/attacks.htm\r\n\r\nIf you'd like to read the kind of crap that David Horowitz and his ilk have to say I suggest you google it.\r\n\r\n2) The question of where Avakian lives is irrelevant. First of all his most recent speech, the one referenced in the above article, took place in the US. Second of all many leaders have been forced into temporary exile. Lenin was one, but there are many others as well. More fundamentally the issue is not where someone is but what their analysis of political realities is. If someone has to be in a place directly in order to be able to lead a movement, how far do you take that? I mean clearly a person can not be in two places at once, and there are differences between the regions of the US. Should we then wait for or demand leaders from every single region or county? I see geography as essentially irrelevant in any dealing of Avakian's leadership.\r\n\r\nBut in looking at his analysis I think it is worth while to read &quot;The New Situation and Great Challenges&quot; http:\/\/rwor.org\/a\/v23\/1140-1147\/1143\/ba-newsituation.htm\r\n\r\nThis piece sets out exactly what is going on in the world today. It cuts through the identity politics, the third-worldism, defeatism, and many more incorrect lines on what has happened and what will likely develop in the future with regards to current US policy. It is an analysis that is very clear and prescient, especially since it was first put out a mere couple of months after the 9\/11 attacks.\r\n\r\nTo simple-minded lefties and righties suck: The Iraqi CP was indeed slaughtered by Saddam at the behest of the CIA, but the Iraqi CP is not an organization worthy of the name of communists anymore. They are essentially sell outs and nothing is more indicative of this than there role in the &quot;interim government&quot; in Iraq today and there help to the occupation.\r\n\r\nJust to make the difference between Soviet or Chinese revisionism and revolutionary communists more clear I think it is worthwhile to point out that the Maoists of Afghanistan were all massacred by the Soviets when they invaded in the 80's. And their invasion was clearly a war of imperialism. As to the differences between the revisionists in China and the revolutionaries it is interesting to note that in 1966 over a million people crowded into Tienanmen Square and camped there for over a week demanding the ouster of the President of China. This was Liu Shao Shi. Instead of slaughtering all these people Mao supported them. In fact it was his unleashing of the common people, through the Cultural Revolution that allowed this event to take place and demanded that Party members be commanded by the people. In 1989 under the leadership of Deng Xiao Ping (who had changed the national slogan from &quot;serve the people&quot; to &quot;to get rich is glorious&quot;) thousands of people were massacred for daring to question the dictates of the Party.\r\n\r\nTo same old lies: Communism and revolution itself is not a static thing. The Paris Commune was one very early instance of Proletarian Dictatorship. It only lasted 6 months and very little was accomplished. 1917 was another instance, and despite many of the mistakes no one can deny that they made tremendous strides in liberating people, such as being the first to fully legalize abortion and recognize reproductive rights as a major part of women's liberation. \r\n\r\nBut to confuse latter day Soviet Revisionism with revolution is incorrect. And it is not to say that communism wasn't tried. It most certainly was and it was advance greatly, but ultimately it was defeated by other class forces, I look at these as minor set backs in a larger historical revolution where there are victories and failure for the people of the world. But it is not to say that any of these defeats are the end all be all, just as the bourgeois revolution in France was not defeated ultimately by Bonaparte.\r\n\r\nMore importantly the experience of China especially in the Cultural Revolution was the highest mark in the history of communism. It was the highest mark because it went the furthest on the path of revolution. They consciously tried to rearrange social relations. This included relations between men and women, the city and the country, peasants and workers, students and teachers. They had a new way of industrialising, which was not perfect by any means but of course all of this was the first time people had tried it. \r\n\r\nThe Russians had essentially attempted to build capitalist relations in their country thinking that once they had the economic base the contradictions in the superstructure would cease to exist. Thus they could say that with a nationalized economy the bourgoeisie no longer existed. But this was incorrect as Mao noted the bourgoeisie rises again from within the communist party. This is where class struggle must most forcefully be brought out, within the party itself. Moreover the Chinese attempts at industrialization, under revolutionary control, was much more even handed and in some ways much more environmentally conscious than that of the Russians. \r\n\r\nAnd yes you can find anecdotal evidence that says it was horrible, but you can find much more evidence to the contrary if you choose to. I would suggest reading any of William Hinton's books such as Fanshen or 100 Days War. \r\n\r\nAs for the crimes of Stalin, I don't know where I stand. One thing is for certain the numbers that people throw around are absurd. 30,000,000 people dead under stalin would have been something like 1 in 4 people. That just didn't happen. You go to Russia and the odd thing is that almost anyone who actually LIVED when Stalin was in control of the CPSU actually liked him and the system. It is important to note that books like the Gulag Archipelago were written long after the fact of Stalin's rule. And I think that Solzhenitsyn has effectively made himself to look the fool by suggesting that Stalin was responsible for 60 million deaths in Russia (that would have been over half the population). No country could suffer such a massive drain and still do the things the Soviets did going from nothing to having one of the strongest levels of production in the world by the time of Stalin's death (and this despite losing 20 million people to the Nazi invasion). I shouldn't have to add that the Nazi's were beaten by the Soviets not by the Americans or the British. \r\n\r\nAnd may I add as well that the Americans and the British knew exactly what was going on with the holocaust and had the ability to stop it or mitigate it but decided not too. This included not using their strategic bombers to take out the rail lines or the crematoria and turning back boats of jewish refugees. Instead they chose to fire bomb Dresden a civilian city with no military significance or production or troops (aside from allied POWs) killing hundreds of thousands. \r\n\r\nNot to mention they actually fueled the rise of Hitler as a force specifically to fight communism. Look at the things that Henry Ford had to say about Hitler and Mussolini and you will see that by in large the ruling class supported them to a great extent, until it got out of hand.\r\n\r\nBack again to the question of the Gulag there have been reports formed based on the Soviet Archives that show that prison population as a percentage of total population of the Soviet Union was actually very similar to that of the US today between 2 and 3 percent. Now I don't take that as a point of greatness on the part of Stalin, but I do think it serves to put your claims into scale. \r\n\r\nHere is one story that at least disputes the &quot;common sense&quot; on Stalin. \r\n\r\nUnfortunately some people who have access to the Soviet Archives get widely published and well funded while others don't. Is it any wonder that the larger amount of &quot;information&quot; on the Stalin period bolsters anti-communist claims. \r\n\r\nAlready I've spent too much time on the issue of Stalin. The biggest problem with percieving the question of Stalin as the all embracing test of communism is that it happened half a century ago and frankly the experience of the Soviet Union was quickly superceded by that of China which itself is soon to be superceded by a new upsurge of revolution around the world and hopefully here.\r\n\r\nThis is what the article that started this thread is about. Revolution is not only possible but necessary in THIS country. And Avakian is one of the few that recognizes that. If you disagree fine, but calling names and insinuating stuff is not the way to deal with things you don't like. It would be better to actually debate these issues.\r\n\r\nTo rationality is a construction: The Chinese government does not support the maoists in Nepal. They do not get any weapons from China. All there weapons are captured from the police and army forces of the king.\r\n\r\nI don't know if this looong post will help anyone, but I hope it does even if it is rambling and incomplete.","author":"dromedary","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 06:02:19","modified":"2004-07-02 06:02:19","fileurl":""},{"id":113697,"heading":"correction","article":"The story i wanted to link to that gives another account of the supposed genocide is here: http:\/\/www.chss.montclair.edu\/english\/furr\/vv.html\r\n\r\nsorry","author":"dromedary","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 06:10:21","modified":"2004-07-02 06:10:21","fileurl":""},{"id":113700,"heading":"and another thing","article":"still the same old lies said:\r\n\r\n&quot;----- As another mainstream victim cultural marxism, you buy into this baloney that all was a utopian paradise in the Americas before the White Man showed up. \r\n\r\n-------Far from the gentle proto-environmentalists depicted in today's liberal anti-history classrooms, American Indians were gaggles of warring tribes who practiced all manner of brutality against one another. They didn't even have horses until Whitey showed up. \r\n\r\n------Besides, American Indians migrated here from Russia, so they are also non-indiginous. \r\n\r\n------They lost to the white man because their technology was inferior. If they'd had an Industrial Revolution of their own, they could have blown up the Mayflower with cannon. \r\n\r\n------Lastly, all of that happened centuries ago. Only the stupid take responsibility for events they had nothing to do with; to do so is to take on a needless burden of guilt. Guilty white liberals are the dumbest people on earth. The Indians of old didn't complain about the &quot;unfairness&quot; of losing wars; they were, after all, warriors. Only the modern no-balls AIM terrorist of today whines and complains. &quot;\r\n\r\n\r\nThis argument is completely erroneous. The state of the indigenous population is irrelevant to the fact of near total genocide on the part of the colonialist US. Whether they fought amongst themselves or not does not excuse an entire people being virtually wiped from the face of the earth. But aside from this point it is a fact that the natives of this continent did not massacre each other on anywhere near the level that Europeans massacred them and that by in large their cultures were peaceful. The things that Columbus says about the natives of Hispaniola backs up the fact that many of the Natives that the europeans anhiliated were in fact living an almost idyllic life. \r\n\r\nI suppose the &quot;gift&quot; of horses somehow was a trade off to genocide?\r\n\r\nAs to Natives migrating here from Russia, 1) this is a theory not a fact. 2) the populating of this continent happened thousands of years before europeans ever showed up and 3) if this was an argument you could then turn around and say that since there is a theory that says all human kind originated from Africa we are all black and so there is no and there was never any oppression of black people or Africa. That is absurd.\r\n\r\nYes all this happened centuries ago and I don't think that people today have any direct responsibility in it, but to not see the way in which the history of things like the genocide against natives and the enslavement of Africans built our current situation and still effect our current realities is missing something very important. There are many correlaries between what the US did then to those people and what it continues to do today in places like Iraq or in the not to distant past in places like Vietnam and the Philipines (not to mention to its own citizens). And not to recognize this connection and take responsibility for todays realities as they have been formed through oppression of indigenous, black and others is to be reactionary and ultimately racist in my opinion.\r\n","author":"dromedary","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 06:32:51","modified":"2004-07-02 06:32:51","fileurl":""},{"id":113701,"heading":"rationality isn't a construction","article":"It's more like a few useful gears that are going to be left over when modernity implodes, spewing it's clockwork all over the place.\r\n\r\nI won't disagree about Kerry.  He's another rich guy.  In fact, I don't know if he will win.  The business cycle is improving, and if Bush can un-fuck himself, the gay-haters might drift back into his camp.\r\n\r\nriac, I'm not asking the questions or making the statements that you are answering.  I'm just hating on the RCP!  I'm not even hating on the *ideas* of the RCP, because, I haven't read the draft programme, nor do I plan to.  I get enough from the RW thanks.  It's the organization itself that I'm questioning.\r\n\r\nThe three worst things about Maoism... purging the bourgeoisie, the Red Army, and the spiffy uniforms.  Conformity sucks.  (My opinion today.)\r\n\r\nTo that defender of the west:\r\nThat whole &quot;technical superiority&quot; argument ignores the social aspect of technology: society produces technology.  The society directed R&D to produce killing technologies; the society kills with technology.  Europeans wiped out Aztec nations because they were better organized, socially, to produce technolgies to kill.\r\n\r\nLikewise, the Aztecs did the same to others.\r\n\r\nMy question -- is a society focused on killing better than others a better society?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nYou don't need to be a Maoist to read Mao.\r\n\r\nYou don't need to be a Marxist to read Marx.\r\n\r\n&quot;Maoism can be extracted from its problematic history&quot;...  can it really?  Capitalists argue for an idealized capitalism totally free of government intervention or the liberal correctives that help it along.  They're extracting capitalism from its problematic history of: slavery, child labor, death, poverty creation, and &quot;alienation.&quot;\r\n\r\nPolitical theory is not much without application.  Once applied, look a the compromises and results, then make a new theory.  That's the point of the dialectic.\r\n\r\n(I don't believe I'm arguing for using the dialectic.  I'm a new convert to the trialectic, the quadelectic, the electic-blanket, and the emotive cryelectic.)\r\n\r\nMaoism in practice is real Maoism.  Maoism in theory is just some ideas.  If Maoisim in practice screws up, the correct response isn't to compare it to the ideal, and criticize reality.  Instead, start looking for faults in the theory.  And stop calling it Maoism.  Give it a new name so people don't get confused about the theory under discussion.  Go for it and start calling it Avakianism.\r\n\r\nMaybe it would be called &quot;Maoism as applied to small revolutionary organizations with front groups.&quot;\r\n\r\nOr maybe &quot;The Network of Liberal Front Groups.&quot;\r\n\r\n&quot;Merit and hard work will always outrun sloth and static wealth.&quot;\r\n\r\nYou haven't tried to outrun static wealth. Old money beats out new money, and does it with less sweat.  That's the nature of capitalism, and why it's so offensive to so many Americans.\r\n\r\n&quot;Success in America goes to whomever can make products or services faster, cheaper or better; skin color and the rest of it is secondary. &quot;\r\n\r\nNor have you tried to exist as a nonwhite person.\r\n\r\n&quot;Both &quot;more rational&quot; and &quot;bewildered&quot; are making some scandalous and I dare say, irrelevant assertions.  &quot;\r\n\r\nHell yes my attacks are superficially irrelevant... but they're relevant to me, or I wouldn't have brought them up.  It's not my intent to be Horowitzian; but to be scandalous, sounds good to me.\r\n\r\nBy the way, nice article Dromedary.\r\n\r\nAs for myself... I'm waiting to be recuperated into the system, so I can rebel again.","author":"more rational","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 07:35:43","modified":"2004-07-02 07:35:43","fileurl":""},{"id":113707,"heading":"hillarious","article":"       Ah, Mr. Dromedary, what a comic you are. I didn't realize that the RCP was now recruiting among unemployed stand-up comedians in Hollywood coffee shops. Nothing like taking it to the people.\r\n        Mr. Dromedary isn't involved with the RCP (which probably means that his membership application hasn't been accepted yet.) He's also not a Stalinist, but he devotes his seemingly endless sermon to a frank defense of Mao's disasterous regime and a backanded defense of Stalin and his regime. \r\n(Dromedary isn't a supporter of Satlin; he justs likes to defend him and his policies because of their sheer intellectual appeal.)\r\n       Thirty Million people is not a fourth of the population who lived in the USSR between 1925 and 1953, when Stalin was doing most of his killing. At least not according to the petty bourgois math I follow; perhaps Bob &quot;Einstein&quot; Avakian has come up with a new people's math, analagous to Lysenko's biology.\r\nStalin was a mass murderer and an enemy of the working class. Anyone who claims that he &quot;doesn't know where I stand&quot; regarding this monster is either an ignorant fool or someone who sort of likes mass murder himself. Of course,  it is quite apparant from the rest of this guy's rant that he is not at all ambiguous about Stalin; he clearly supports him and his polices. Some one like Dromedary forfeits all right to be taken seriously morally and politcally when he defents Stalin.\r\n        Of course, we can all see that old Dromy makes no real attempt to defend Mao's mass executions, his thought control that led to the banning of Shakespeare and Chopin during the so-called Cultural Revolution, his belief that nuclear war might be for the best, or his fawning over Nixon and Kissinger. Nothing like a tacit admission that there is no sense in defending the indefensible.\r\n       Have a good time memorizing the Little Red Book, Mr. Dromy. It is so much easier than thinking. Maybe you will find something there that will help you defend Mao's defense of Pol Pot.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 13:07:03","modified":"2004-07-02 13:07:03","fileurl":""},{"id":113713,"heading":"life isn't fair, yo","article":"You haven't tried to outrun static wealth. Old money beats out new money, and does it with less sweat. That's the nature of capitalism, and why it's so offensive to so many Americans. \r\n\r\n------Your argument seems to be more against Mother Nature, then.  People are created equal, but not bestowed with equal gifts.   You might as well be jealous of Michael Jordan\u2019s abilities or Whitney Houston\u2019s pre-coke vocals.  There\u2019s lots of idiots out there I too have no idea why they\u2019re rich or famous.  Paris Hilton couldn\u2019t last a day working at McDonald\u2019s.   The world is an unfair place. \r\n\r\n-------The difference then, between the capitalist and communist, is the capitalist knows that as part of the system, if s\/he fulfills obligations to others and works hard, s\/he can be rewarded.  The factor the communist seemingly cannot abide is that  there are NO guarantees.       \r\n\r\n------ Financially, nothing stays static either.  90% of America\u2019s wealthy earned their money, versus a very few old-money scions.  There are also plenty of rich people at any given time who are losing all their money in bad investments or other poor choices.  \r\n\r\n----&quot;Success in America goes to whomever can make products or services faster, cheaper or better; skin color and the rest of it is secondary. &quot; \r\n\r\nNor have you tried to exist as a nonwhite person. \r\n\r\n-----And yet I write the truth.  America rewards hard work.  The philosophy you worship, taking from the wealthier and giving it to the less productive\u2014in essence, rewarding mediocrity with a measure of unearned money\u2014only creates dependency on government, in your case, the communist.  What\u2019s good for the Politburo was not necessarily good for the average Russian.\r\n\r\n-----As another example of why communism will never work, take Mike Tyson.  At one time he had 300 million dollars in the bank.  Now he sleeps on park benches.  You can give some people the whole world and they\u2019re such screw-ups nothing will save them.  Should everyone else be forced to pay at gunpoint  so \u2018Iron\u2019 Mike can get his once-opulent lifestyle back?\r\n\r\n-----Equality and freedom are eternal enemies, but on some levels they co-exist to bring greater opportunity to all.\r\n","author":"fuck communism","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 14:42:45","modified":"2013-11-11 00:30:18","fileurl":""},{"id":113714,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"idiot: &quot;Should everyone else be forced to pay at gunpoint so \u2018Iron\u2019 Mike can get his once-opulent lifestyle back? &quot;\r\n\r\n...gee, what a subtle, nuanced argument you have there....that certainly sums up socialism in a sentence...\r\n\r\n...I wonder if Tyson being black has anything to do with his failure...\r\n\r\n...but not his race, his CULTURE....","author":"KPC","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 14:47:36","modified":"2013-11-11 00:30:18","fileurl":""},{"id":113719,"heading":"Tyson Ear Bites","article":"-----Genius: &quot;Should everyone else be forced to pay at gunpoint so \u2018Iron\u2019 Mike can get his once-opulent lifestyle back? &quot; \r\n\r\nJerky:  ...gee, what a subtle, nuanced argument you have there....that certainly sums up socialism in a sentence... \r\n\r\n----Well, fucknuts, what else is it?  Robin hood?  Robbing Peter to pay Paul?  Socialism sucks and is a miserable failure ALL OVER THE WORLD.\r\n\r\nJerky:  ...I wonder if Tyson being black has anything to do with his failure....but not his race, his CULTURE....\r\n\r\n----Whitey didn't make him rape the women, or bite the ear.  If anyone could afford the best mental health care, it was Tyson.  It's all a damned shame.  \r\n","author":"fuck communism","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 15:38:03","modified":"2013-11-11 00:30:18","fileurl":""},{"id":113720,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"G-anus: &quot;Whitey didn't make him rape the women, &quot;\r\n\r\n...oh, yeah, I forgot,  it was his DEFECTIVE CULTURE....\r\n\r\n...and I'm still looking for where Marx was proposing stealing from the proletariat to keep prize fighters in opulence....","author":"KPC","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 15:52:09","modified":"2004-07-02 15:52:09","fileurl":""},{"id":113721,"heading":"robbing Peter to pay Paul","article":"Robbing Peter to pay Paul is what happens when medical practices charge you 14,000 dollars to do a routing operation that takes 20 minutes. It is when the billionaires who control public utilites push through rate hikes with political pressure so they can make even more obscene profits. It is what happens when fabulously wealthy companies like Walmart pay their employees miserable wages and in many cases no health benefits. It is what happens when wealthy ceos lay off hundreds or thousands of workers and then  ask for a pay raise as a reward for their &quot;accomplishments.&quot;  In short, it is what capitalism is. Capitalism was started in Britain on the profits made from the slave trade and piracy. That is what capitalism is still all about; that is why it has to be abolished.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 15:56:26","modified":"2004-07-02 15:56:26","fileurl":""},{"id":113724,"heading":"correction","article":"In my first message I meant to type routine operation.","author":"M.L.","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 17:05:24","modified":"2004-07-02 17:05:24","fileurl":""},{"id":113734,"heading":"Meyer London","article":"I would like to start with a question, what is the basis of your assertions? What is the source?\r\n\r\nAs far as the question of genocide in Russia it is highly doubtful and that was my only point in &quot;defending Stalin&quot;, that there is another side to the issue.\r\n\r\nTo tell you exactly why I think this we can go back to the question of population. Alright, so you are correct that 30 million was not 1 in 4 of the population of the Soviet Union it was a little more than 1 in 5. The population of the Soviet Union according to the 1926 census was 148 million people. The basis of the accusation of genocide comes from looking at this number and the rate of growth ESTIMATED by the stalinists themselves and comparing it to the 1937 census and claiming that because the population did not grow at the expected rate there was a genocide. \r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.databank.neu.edu\/census.htm\r\n\r\nThis is methodologically very questionable. To show how unrealiable this method is I would like to direct your attention to the current state of Russia's population. At no time during the Soviet Union, with the probable exception of the Nazi invasion, did the Soviet population actually DECLINE. But today it is estimated that the Russian population will be cut in half in 70yrs. According to many sources Russia loses between 500,000 and 800,000 people a year. http:\/\/english.pravda.ru\/society\/2001\/02\/22\/2666.html\r\n\r\n(if you have a problem with pravda just google &quot;russian population&quot; for 1,790,000 sources)\r\n\r\nWell using the methodology that claims Stalin's reign included genocide we would have to judge from these modern day facts that the currect government of Russia is performing genocide at a massively higher rate than the regime of Stalin.\r\n\r\nAgain I ask you what are your sources. Where does the number 30,000,000 come from? \r\n\r\nAs for defending Mao I fully recognize that foreign policy was not the strongest suit of the revolution in China. But I would also like to inform you that the Khmer Rouge were not Maoists, nor did they ever claim to be, and at the time thier fight was just. It wasn't until they got into power that they turned bad. But again I'm defending against accusations that don't seem to have sources. Where do you find a connection between China and Cambodia? How do you know what the nature of that connection was?\r\n\r\nAccording to this article even Noam Chomsky recognizes the myth of Cambodian genocide: http:\/\/www.rwor.org\/a\/v19\/910-19\/918\/polpot.htm\r\n\r\nThe contact between Nixon and China was in the context of an extremely threatening situation coming from the Soviet Union. It seems Mao decided that the SU was a bigger threat with its military on the border and its threats of nuclear war than the US was. I certainly question whether this was the correct move (I don't think it was) but I don't think it overshadows the rest of the Chinese Revolution's accomplishments.\r\n\r\nAs to the talk about not being afraid of nuclear weapons. I believe that this comment if it was made was made before China had nuclear weapons and was engineered to bolster the Chinese people's morale in the face of US and SU nuclear blackmail. Certainly it wouldn't need to be said after China had nuclear weapons. But if you could give a source for the claim you're making I would like to see it.\r\n\r\nAs to the banning of Chopin and Shakespeare, I know nothing of it, but Mao was not in charge of the cultural ministry, just as he wasn't in charge of the foriegn ministry. In fact many of your claims about Mao are based on an assumptions of a totalitarian structure with him at the top. I challenge you to prove that assumption.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"dromedary","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 19:56:31","modified":"2004-07-02 19:56:31","fileurl":""},{"id":113735,"heading":"Kuff Kommunism","article":"Hope:   &quot;Whitey didn't make him rape the women, &quot; \r\n\r\nDope:  ...oh, yeah, I forgot, it was his DEFECTIVE CULTURE.... \r\n\r\nHope:  The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Tyson for his crimes.  \r\n\r\nDope:  ...and I'm still looking for where Marx was proposing stealing from the proletariat to keep prize fighters in opulence....\r\n\r\nHope:  Ted Turner and Scottie Pippen are &quot;farmers&quot; and get paid over $100,000 in farm subsidies each year.  Just one of hundreds of examples of chaotic, criminal government, robbing Peter to pay off anyone who will keep it growing.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nRobbing Peter to pay Paul is what happens when medical practices charge you 14,000 dollars to do a routing operation that takes 20 minutes.\r\n\r\n----If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's &quot;free.&quot;\r\n\r\nCapitalism was started in Britain on the profits made from the slave trade and piracy.\r\n\r\n----Parts of Africa are still slave trading.\r\n\r\n That is what capitalism is still all about; that is why it has to be abolished.\r\n\r\n------You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater.  You've trained yourself to ignore any good that capitalism does.  \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n","author":"Richard Ramirez","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 20:08:35","modified":"2004-07-02 20:08:35","fileurl":""},{"id":113736,"heading":"fuck fuck communism putting words into my mouth","article":"I'm not a communist you nincompoop.\r\n\r\nYou're just an apologist for oligarchs and monarchists.\r\n\r\nOnce upon a time, only landed white men could vote.  Today, any citizen over the age of 18 can vote.  Once upon a time, there was slavery and poverty, and today, there is less, because people believe that all people have some right to get paid for their work, and get a fair shake in life.  This, bub, is democracy, and that's what I'm about, fuck communism.\r\n\r\nAs for communism never working, guess what?  I agree.\r\n\r\nAnd I also don't believe that capitalism worked.  It failed.  That's why we have social security, and a highway administration.  That's why we have welfare.\r\n\r\nLaissez faire reactionaries are ignoring history.  I invite them all to come work in my thread factory for the next twelve hours.  I will pay you $2 an hour for this unskilled labor.  Try to organize a union, and I'll have you shot as you walk home to your cardboard box.","author":"more rational","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 20:17:23","modified":"2004-07-02 20:17:23","fileurl":""},{"id":113740,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"...gee, I still don't get how Mike Tyson is a classic example of the failures of communism...\r\n\r\n...waiting for clarification, is there any hope?\r\n\r\n....nope.","author":"KPC","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-02 22:08:38","modified":"2004-07-02 22:08:38","fileurl":""},{"id":113753,"heading":"TCB","article":"I'm not a communist you nincompoop. \r\n\r\n---'fuck communism' is a handle.\r\n\r\nYou're just an apologist for oligarchs and monarchists. \r\n\r\n---Oh?  Because America has no monarchs and the oligs, while influential, can't erase *my* protection under the Bill of Rights.  The government is trying to, of course, but they're not Microsoft.\r\n\r\nOnce upon a time, only landed white men could vote. Today, any citizen over the age of 18 can vote. \r\n\r\n----The voting age should be bumped up to 25.\r\n\r\nOnce upon a time, there was slavery and poverty, and today, there is less, because people believe that all people have some right to get paid for their work, and get a fair shake in life. This, bub, is democracy, and that's what I'm about, fuck communism. \r\n\r\nAs for communism never working, guess what? I agree. \r\n\r\n---I know you don't agree with the following statement, but socialism and communism are the same animal.  Both demand subservience to the state, both demand an abolition or state-control-as-needed of private property and both believe a small committee (or large one) of &quot;managers&quot; is smarter than millions of citizens.   \r\n\r\nAnd I also don't believe that capitalism worked.\r\n\r\n---Then where did all this wealth come from?  \r\n\r\n It failed. That's why we have social security, and a highway administration. That's why we have welfare. \r\n\r\n----The highways were a DEFENSE project.  The welfare state was a mistake.  Social Security was good for its time but should either be phased out or offer more options to opt out.  \r\n\r\nLaissez faire reactionaries are ignoring history. I invite them all to come work in my thread factory for the next twelve hours. I will pay you $2 an hour for this unskilled labor. Try to organize a union, and I'll have you shot as you walk home to your cardboard box.\r\n\r\n---$2 an hour?  That's not even minimum wage.  Are you sure the factory is on American soil?  And the workers are all legal immigrants or citizens?\r\n\r\n","author":"f.c.","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-03 03:03:33","modified":"2004-07-03 03:03:33","fileurl":""},{"id":114140,"heading":"it was incredible","article":"I saw this DVD. This talk.\nAnd i have to say I am still trying to assimilate much of it. But i can say this much: it has really touched me, and my hopes for making something out of this fucked up world.\n\nThe talk was creative, electrifying, profound -- in ways I can barely get into here.\n\nLet me urge everyone to check this out -- with an open mind.\n\nRevolution is possible, and with people like Avakian involved, i really think it can mean something historic and new for humanity","author":"duper","parent_id":113594,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-07-14 20:15:16","modified":"2004-07-14 20:15:16","fileurl":""}]}