(IMC, AZ, SF)
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\r\nto all IMC participants,
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i am posting to your site in hopes of opening up constructive dialogue about the way our sites work and how we can make them more useful. here are some proposals for LA-IMC intended to start the ball rolling.
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\r\ndo you have any of the same problems \/ ideas for solutions? what can we do as concerned communities to implement much needed changes without becoming part of the problem?
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\r\nthanks,
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\r\nlynx-13
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\r\nhere's the proposals....
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\r\n1. maybe the more that members of IMC collectives use the public IMC newswires both generally and specifically to propose , discuss, and debate developments in IMC structure, the better the IMC will be.
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\r\n2. maybe improvements in the quality of interaction on the IMC website will be ongoing, hopefully for many years, through a continual process of adjustments rather than a sudden transition to a perfect solution.
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\r\n3. maybe problems arising from public participation in the site will in the long run be solved by giving people more options, not fewer.
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\r\n- - - la-imc should make clear that it understands that lack of transparency is a problem and that la-imc is presently not adequately transparent. la-imc should post minutes or notes or journalistic accounts of regular la-imc meetings in some very visible place on the front page of the site.
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\r\n- - - - la-imc should publicly post explanations of significant or total losses of function as soon as possible after the lapses occur. when explanations are unavailable for any reason, that should also be posted. these notices should tell imc users how they can help. all this info should be highly visible.
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\r\n- - - - each link in the \"latest comments about this article\" box should open to display a stack of comments selected BY THE COMMENTER WHO POSTED THAT COMMENT. the next link should open a stack selected by the next person. and so on.
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\r\n- - - - la-imc should make clear on the front page that it understands that anglo-centrism is a problem and that la-imc is presently and has always been anglocentric and la-imc should publicly seek help fixing this problem. if la-imc is not in consensus on this matter, some prominent space on the front page should be devoted to publicly discuss this important issue.
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\r\n- - - - a latest comments link should automatically appear at the bottom of every comment.
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\r\n- - - - la-imc should provide prominent space on the website for the Free Pacifica movement.
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\r\n- - - - kpfk has consistently given la-imc airtime. la-imc should reciprocate for kpfk
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\r\n- - - - banners should be changed regularly.
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\r\n- - - - center column should change at least every day. if orginal work by the collective is unavailable, then user posts should be selected and imported into the center column.
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\r\np.s. it seems like \"latest comments\" pages, like the one at la-imc, are being abandoned instead of improved. this is especially sad because the IMC was started in order to facilitate constructive interaction. the IMC has set the standard for alternative internet journalism networking and the only reason to turn away from interactivity at this point is in order to rob the IMC of some of its nascent potential. solutions to problems caused by so-called flame wars are abundant without abandoning the inspiring and legitimate demand for free, open, and constructive dialogue. internationally, IMC's could easily feature more and more useful, free, and constructive boards and forums that are interactive and journalistic. the abandonment of \"latest comments\" pages is a step away from interactivity, a step in the wrong direction.
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\r\nanticrisis
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\r\nlynx
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\r\nlatest comments<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","summary":"do you have any of the same problems \/ ideas for solutions at your IMC? what can we do as concerned communities to implement much needed changes without becoming part of the problem?","numcomment":13,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/2003\/08\/_more_options_not_fewer_.jpg","filesize":"35.9 kibibytes","article_url":"\/news\/2003\/08\/75485.php","image":{"original":"\/uploads\/2003\/08\/_more_options_not_fewer_.jpg","small":"\/uploads\/2003\/08\/_more_options_not_fewer_.jpgthumb.jpg"}},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":105319,"heading":"Support Transparency","article":"Please post minutes of your collective and working group meetings on the site. We'd greatly appreciate this. Despite the increase in funding we've received from the DHS, we still have to scramble to post confidential informants to your meetings, and the overtime we're paying is becoming prohibitive. \r\nWe - and your fellow taxpayers will be grateful. \r\n\r\n","author":"Los Angeles Police Department","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-03-19 08:50:18","modified":"2004-03-19 08:50:18","fileurl":""},{"id":110361,"heading":"oh right","article":"and Bush<\/a> wants transparent<\/a> democracies<\/a> in Saudi Arabia<\/a>, Qatar<\/a>, Kuwait<\/a>, Afghanistan<\/a>, Uzbekistan<\/a> etc etc.....\r\n\r\nand Iraq too<\/a>, right?\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"the noticer","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-05-16 18:06:33","modified":"2005-08-15 01:37:51","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/05\/topdown.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/05\/topdown.jpg"}},{"id":133265,"heading":"nice to see 'latest comments' is back!","article":"when did this happen?\r\ni haven't been around in ages....\r\n;)\r\n\r\n- lynx-14<\/a>\r\n","author":"lynx-14","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-20 22:11:58","modified":"2005-07-20 22:11:58","fileurl":""},{"id":75589,"heading":"a day of victory....","article":"a day of victory.... for the enemies of complex decentralized activism\r\n\r\nyesterday i wrote this:\r\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\np.s. it seems like "latest comments" pages, like the one at la-imc, are being abandoned instead of improved. this is especially sad because the IMC was started in order to facilitate constructive interaction. the IMC has set the standard for alternative internet journalism networking and the only reason to turn away from interactivity at this point is in order to rob the IMC of some of its nascent potential. solutions to problems caused by so-called flame wars are abundant without abandoning the inspiring and legitimate demand for free, open, and constructive dialogue. internationally, IMC's could easily feature more and more useful, free, and constructive boards and forums that are interactive and journalistic. the abandonment of "latest comments" pages is a step away from interactivity, a step in the wrong direction.\r\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\ntoday i notice that the "latest comments" page only displays the last six comments (instead of the usual..30?.. more?). no explanation as usual.\r\n\r\ni have put a lot of work into the la-imc, mainly trying to support constructive use of the more interactive and social features of the site. i have always felt that these free and interactive aspects of the site held the most exciting potential. i always figured that was exactly why these parts of the site were the focus of the most continuous attacks by political enemies<\/a>. \r\n\r\neventually, activists will create spaces for public exhanges that are both free and dignified. but for the time being, the los angeles independent media center is conceding to enemies of complex decentralized activism. that's a mistake.\r\n\r\na<\/a>n<\/a>t<\/a>i<\/a>c<\/a>r<\/a>i<\/a>s<\/a>i<\/a>s<\/a>\r\n\r\nlynx<\/a>\r\n\r\nlatest comments<\/a>","author":"lynx-13","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-08-05 04:01:21","modified":"2003-08-05 04:01:21","fileurl":""},{"id":75601,"heading":"some input, FWIW","article":"Lynx my friend, there are several good reasons this site is hurting. \r\nContinuous site failures, lack of transparency in the process and \r\nin my opinion the lack of supervision in the control of the problems I have listed several times in the past but have been ignored. \r\nAgain. \r\nThe distasteful and untouched racism, porn and of course the constant attacks of obvious psyops which serve to skunk the dialogue. Not wishing to give the impression that LA IMC should \r\nfollow the lead of SF IMC who are terribly trigger happy in their zeal \r\nto delete posts (which is why I stopped using it) that don't pass their criteria of acceptable posts, but to allow the participation of the \r\nreaders and posters in the process of 'editing'. \r\nI gave examples at San Diego and Portland of ratings and compost \r\nbins but no responce from the collective. \r\nDuring breakdowns or attacks, we get nothing in the form of information as to why and every time this happens the phone line is down. What's with that? I stopped trying after the first five times of receiving a disconnect message. \r\nUnable to attend your meetings because of distance and personal \r\nbusiness I feel (as I'm sure others do) excluded from the process. \r\nI'm sure that unpaid collective members are already up to their ears in weasels, but come on people, use the process of democracy to \r\ninteract with this board. \r\nAm I beyond the pale on this?","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-08-05 09:15:32","modified":"2003-08-05 09:15:32","fileurl":""},{"id":75695,"heading":"transparency needed at la-imc","article":"thanks for the response Sheepdog.\r\ni'm glad we are in agreement about this. \r\n\r\nin trying to get some more feedback about this i am finding out that the problem is more widespread than i thought. for example, AZ-IMC seems to have its share of problems too<\/a>.\r\n\r\nwe say an IMC should \"allow the participation of the \r\nreaders and posters in the process\" (your words). you'd think that would go without saying. elementary democracy. but as it is now, readers and posters are not even allowed to SEE the process, let alone participate. \r\n\r\ni think demanding that notes of regular LA-IMC meetings be posted is an important first step. if the \"collective\" is not just a trifling self-indulgence, then we can expect to win on that demand. \r\n\r\notherwise, the continued refusal of the \"collective\" to post notes of its meetings will be more and more damaging to the legitimacy of the groups decisions.\r\n\r\na<\/a>n<\/a>t<\/a>i<\/a>c<\/a>r<\/a>i<\/a>s<\/a>i<\/a>s<\/a>\r\n\r\nlynx<\/a>\r\n\r\nlatest comments<\/a>","author":"lynx-13","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-08-06 18:29:54","modified":"2003-08-06 18:36:49","fileurl":""},{"id":75714,"heading":" I mean, damn, lynx.","article":"Well duh! Examples....\n<<<<<<<<<<<<[( ! )]>>>>>>>>>>>>\ntango44\nby tanqueray ? Friday July 18, 2003 08:47 PM\nThey should just throw those sand niggers out the back of the plain.\n.............................................................................................................................\nluis\nby Douglas W. Franz ? Thursday April 24, 2003 10:13 AM\ndfranz2@hotmail.com \nBurn in hell, you damn spic!\n............................................................................................................................\njohn\nby Bush Admirer ? Wednesday April 02, 2003 02:19 PM\nFuck off, you towelhead.\n............................................................................................................................\nWow\nby sheepdog ? Friday March 07, 2003 07:39 PM\nPlease chill \nWow \nwith the anti semite \nrants on echo \nWe all hate Jews \nbut it's our secret \nhere\n............................................................................................................................\nOnce again...\nby WOW ? Friday March 07, 2003 07:31 PM\n9:34am Mon Aug 4\nHave I mentioned how much I hate the Jews? Cause I do...\n,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\nI wont give examples of porn left unattended but (maybe) you've\nnoticed them.\n...........................................................................................................................\n{then there are physical threats by the hacker psyco]\nNotice how quiet the newswire has been...\never since we raped that bitch Diogenes?\n............................................................................................................................\n[upon attempting to add comment]\nWarning: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '\/var\/lib\/mysql\/mysql.sock' (111) in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 24\n Warning: MySQL Connection Failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '\/var\/lib\/mysql\/mysql.sock' (111) in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 24\n Warning: mysql_db_query(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 35\n Warning: mysql_errno(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 107\n Warning: mysql_fetch_array(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 48\n Warning: mysql_close(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 52\n 0\n Warning: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '\/var\/lib\/mysql\/mysql.sock' (111) in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 24\n Warning: MySQL Connection Failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '\/var\/lib\/mysql\/mysql.sock' (111) in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 24 \n Warning: mysql_db_query(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 35 \n Warning: mysql_errno(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 107 \n Warning: mysql_fetch_array(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 48 \n Warning: mysql_close(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link resource in \/home\/httpd\/sf-active\/shared\/classes\/db_class.inc on line 52\n.....................................................................................................................................\n---and this is when the read process is even functional---\n<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[( ! )]>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \nand you want to know why the site is under used. \nThis is what a potential participant often gets at this board and it \nlooks like a hazardous cluster fuck. Is this your example of\ncollective cooperation? Get it together. This is almost as bad as Kill Radio.\notherwise this is a nice comment board. Sigh........\noh BTW, you can delete this rather irratated post if you want, I had to vent.\nThank you.","author":"why you're in the mud","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-08-06 20:00:56","modified":"2003-08-06 20:00:56","fileurl":""},{"id":75720,"heading":"problems and solutions at la-imc","article":"WANTED: freedom and dignity at LA-IMC<\/a>\r\nsome proposals<\/a>\r\nsimilar problems at AZ-IMC<\/a>\r\n\r\nthanks for responding 'why you're in the mud', but i don't understand your point. yes there is a lot of crap posted on la-imc. that is a solveable problem. it is just not a priority for the la-imc \"collective\". why not i don't know. it's worth thinking about who at the la-imc is reluctant to implement a solution that is consistent with open publishing principles and why. \r\n\r\nthe sense i get is that the la-imc \"collective\" doesn't really value the interactive aspects of the site. unless some of those people start to see the value of transparency and public discussions, no constructive action to improve the boards here is likely soon. \r\n\r\nall the same, the point of the proposals posted at the top of this thread is to prevent disruption of constructive la-imc dialogues and to do so with minimal or no interference by moderators.\r\n\r\nthis is do-able and activists will eventually do this. in any case, la-imc must post the notes of it's regular organizational meetings if it hopes to maintain it's reputation as a democratic organization. further failure to do so will inevitably be damaging to the legitimacy of decisions about la-imc. \r\n\r\nmiles and miles of disgraceful trash talking on the site may conveniently lower peoples expectations but that is not an excuse for failing to address legitimate concerns about transparency. \r\n\r\nla-imc participants should think carefully about where they stand on basic democratic issues of transparency, free speech, and participation.... and about who benefits from crisis.\r\n\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n\r\na<\/a>n<\/a>t<\/a>i<\/a>c<\/a>r<\/a>i<\/a>s<\/a>i<\/a>s<\/a>\r\n\r\nlynx<\/a>\r\n\r\nlatest comments<\/a>","author":"lynx-13","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-08-06 21:06:53","modified":"2003-08-06 21:40:29","fileurl":""},{"id":75747,"heading":"observe the proceeding comment","article":"I can't believe you didn't get my point, lynx.\r\nThis site has become a cluster fuck. Anybody, it seems, can do anything they want here and the collective doesn't seem to be able to wake up to that. Is anybody at the switchboard or are you so under maned that no one is there to monitor the comments? Or breakdowns? How about some answers? What can we do to help you out? Anything? What about the phone line? Giving us loops, for instance to previous comments doesn't make any sense to me. I don't get YOUR point sometimes.\r\nI gave you some very valid reasons why this site is 'in the mud'.\r\nWe're both speaking english, right?","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":75485,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-08-06 23:45:55","modified":"2003-08-06 23:45:55","fileurl":""}]}