{"article":{"id":67797,"heading":"Leftist take on 9-11 Conspiracists","author":"fresca","created":"2003-06-28 15:03:27","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:23","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:23:23","article":"

Published on Friday, June 21, 2002 by CommonDreams.org \r\nSeptember 11th: Conspiracy-itis \r\nby Marty Jezer \r\n \r\nI wanted to begin this column by saying that people who view politics through a filter of conspiracy are ignorant of history and how the world works, probably paranoid, and certainly intellectually lazy. Alas, some conspiracies really exist. \r\n\r\nFor example, take the Kennedy assassination. Though Oliver Stone in his film “JFK” got the conspiracy angle wrong (he blamed it, using flimsy evidence, on Lyndon Johnson), there is overwhelming documentation linking Lee Harvey Oswald to an eccentric New Orleans-based airplane pilot named David Ferrie. Ferrie worked for Mafia boss Carlos Marcello and ran guns to anti-Castro Cubans. The Mafia, which ran the gambling, prostitution and drug concessions in Havana before Castro sent them packing, like the right-wing Cubans, had a motive to get rid of Kennedy. JFK, after the failure of the Bay of Pigs, had no taste for another Cuban invasion. \r\n\r\nThe Mafia\/anti-Castro “who-shot-Kennedy” theory is backed by documented facts and transparent motives. Most conspiracy theories consist of isolated, and often unverifiable, facts, mixed indiscriminately with gossip, innuendo, half-truths, and found-documents that exist outside of any meaningful context. Most conspiracy theories are based on the hatred of one political group for another. When an atrocity happens, conspiracists construct a case in order to pin the blame on their rivals. \r\n\r\nSuch is the origin of the conspiracy theories, now flooding the internet, which attempt to link George W. Bush to the 9-11 terrorist bombings. Like the right-wing crazies who believe that the U.N. controls America and Bill Clinton killed Vince Foster, conspiracists on the fringe of the left believe that George W. Bush is responsible for the September 11 attacks. They believe he orchestrated the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in order to create a climate of fear so he could suspend civil liberties, stifle dissent, and then go to war to make Afghanistan safe for U.S. energy companies to build an oil pipeline. \r\n\r\nTo give the conspiracists credit, they are demon researchers, single-minded in tracking down every shred of information that might bolster their theory. What they lack is an ability (or desire) to evaluate evidence and place it into a real-world context. They can’t see the forest for the trees and can’t distinguish popple from a sturdy oak. Conspiracists see the world through their own mind-set. To conspiracists, everything has meaning, everything happens according to plan. But the world doesn’t work that way. People screw up. Egos and rivalry cause chaos. Organizations have conflicting agendas. The FBI and CIA really don’t talk to each other and aren’t very good at evaluating raw intelligence data. That’s life! \r\n\r\nOne of the difficulties in debunking conspiracy theory is that the debunker has to track down and disprove every alleged piece of evidence. Since conspiracy facts rarely exist in a coherent context, each must be tracked down and disproven separately. It’s a no-win situation. To ardent conspiracists, anyone who challenges their theory becomes part of a cover-up.<\/b> \r\n\r\nI myself don’t have the investigative passion to get into the arcane trivia of conspiracy nonsense. All credit then to David Corn, an upstanding journalist for The Nation who took the time to track down the assertions of the conspiracy theorists and found their evidence lacking in veracity and the major purveyors of the theory lacking in credibility. (See “9-11 X-Files” at http:\/\/www.commondreams.org\/views02\/0531-03.htm). \r\n\r\nI reject the conspiracy theory on broader grounds, because of the way the conspiracists misinterpret even their more truthful assertions. The conspiracists make much of the Bush family’s connection with the father of Osama bin Laden. Pappa bin Laden has more than 50 children. By fact and on principle, one should not blame a father for the evil of a son (and visa versa), but it suits the conspiracists to insist on a direct correlation. \r\n\r\nConspiracists say the war in Afghanistan was planned before it happened. Duh! The Pentagon has contingency plans for wars in every country. There’s a whole bureaucracy drafting those plans as their daily work assignment. And oil? Most foreign policy is geared to oil and other natural resources. And the Central Asian countries that have the oil want the pipeline as much as the oil companies. Never before has the United States needed to kill its own citizens in order to justify aggression against another country. \r\n\r\nMore to the point, evidence indicates that the FBI and CIA had information about a plot before Bush took office and did nothing. Was the Clinton Administration part of the plan, along with the FBI, CIA, FAA, and the airline industry? And why four planes? Why not just one? And why target a building with thousands of people in it when any symbol of America would stir patriotism and cause outrage? And why, if the government knew of or plotted the attack, didn’t the authorities pack the planes with undercover agents and stop the attacks as they started? What a coup that would have been. Bush could have parleyed that bit of heroism into election for life. \r\n\r\nThe conspiracists claim that Bush is a dim bulb, yet they give him credit for pulling off a complex and unprecedented attack. They claim, correctly I think, that he is only interested in protecting the rich; so why would he support an act that hurt the airline and travel industry and took the bottom out of an already declining stock market? \r\n\r\nIt doesn’t make sense, to put it kindly. Nine-eleven conspiracy theories are an ugly, ignorant and dangerous distraction from the real political problems that the policies of the Bush Administration represent. The fact that Bush is exploiting the situation for political gain doesn’t make him responsible for the situation itself; any politician would do the same. The conspiracists, to the degree they are identified with the left, will do more damage to the credibility of progressive politics than they will to the reputation of the Bush Administration. If I didn’t know any better, I would say that the emergence of the 9-11 conspiracy theory is a FBI plot to discredit the left. \r\n \r\n<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/html","summary":"Nice little articale from commondreams.org","numcomment":44,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2003\/06\/67797.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":67802,"heading":"Here's a conspiracy...","article":"Nineteen Saudis got into the US, trained to fly aircraft without landing them, kept their plans secret for more than a year, borded aircraft with weapons and fake ID, and used plastic knives to take over jets and crash them into US buildings. These Saudis were so stupid that they left the plans in the trunk of a rental car. They Feds were so lucky that within days of the event, despite the massive pile of rubble, they found the passports of the Saudis.\r\n\r\nYeah, tell me another one.","author":"Apple Pox","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 15:08:48","modified":"2003-06-28 15:08:48","fileurl":""},{"id":67821,"heading":"again","article":"One of the difficulties in debunking conspiracy theory is that the debunker has to track down and disprove every alleged piece of evidence. Since conspiracy facts rarely exist in a coherent context, each must be tracked down and disproven separately. It\u2019s a no-win situation. To ardent conspiracists, anyone who challenges their theory becomes part of a cover-up.","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 15:29:15","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:23","fileurl":""},{"id":67826,"heading":"Conspiracy theorists=LALA LAND CENTRAL","article":""! One of the difficulties in debunking conspiracy theory is that the debunker has to track down and disprove every alleged piece of evidence. Since conspiracy facts rarely exist in a coherent context, each must be tracked down and disproven separately. It\u2019s a no-win situation. To ardent conspiracists, anyone who challenges their theory becomes part of a cover-up."\r\n\r\nTruer words have never been spoken.\r\n\r\nIf you try and demonstrate to a conspiracy theorists that their theory is unfounded, that's further evidence to them that it is accurate, otherwise why would you be trying to convince them differently.","author":"here we go loopy-loo","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 15:33:50","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:23","fileurl":""},{"id":67830,"heading":"Muddled "thinking"","article":">Nineteen Saudis got into the US, trained to fly aircraft >without landing them\r\n\r\nThey weren't all Saudis and most of the hijackers were not pilots, just thugs.\r\n\r\n\r\n>kept their plans secret for more than a year, \r\n\r\nRegardless of who did the act, they would have had to keep the plan a secret.\r\n\r\n\r\n>borded aircraft with weapons and fake ID, \r\n\r\nBoxcutters is the theory. And interestingly enough, most used their real IDs.\r\n\r\n>and used plastic knives to take over jets and crash \r\n>them into US buildings. \r\n\r\nActually, they figure it was boxcutters (plastic knives are a result of 9\/11.\r\n\r\n\r\n>These Saudis were so stupid that they left the plans \r\n>in the trunk of a rental car. \r\n\r\nWhy not? Once the plan was executed, they wanted the world to know who did it. \r\n\r\n\r\n>They Feds were so lucky that within days of the event, >despite the massive pile of rubble, they found the \r\n>passports of the Saudis.\r\n\r\nThey didn't find them all, not much at all.\r\n\r\n-----------\r\n\r\nThere you go. Everything you said was wrong. No wonder you are muddle-headed enough to believe the Alternate Story. Do you ever read anything beyond what your conformist "alternate" group spoon feeds you?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Newton","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 15:38:29","modified":"2003-06-28 15:38:29","fileurl":""},{"id":67832,"heading":"well..","article":""These Saudis were so stupid that they left the plans in the trunk of a rental car."\r\n\r\nBeyond all your other misinformed fantasies, this one is a perfect example of typical CT nonsense.\r\n\r\nYou state this as if it in any way disproves or proves anything.\r\n\r\nFirst of all, why would you assume that Arab terrorists are above making mistakes of any sort?\r\n\r\nSecondly, why would they care if they are found out, through left behind evidence, if they are dead.\r\n\r\nThirdly, given that a terrorists main goal is to terrorize and leave a calling card if yoy will, why would this be at all unexpected.\r\n\r\nThe notion of passports and boarding the planes is too ridiculous to even go into.\r\n\r\nYou are simply a gullible fool.","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 15:41:59","modified":"2003-06-28 15:41:59","fileurl":""},{"id":67849,"heading":"9\/11 theories","article":" I don't claim to know what really happend on 9\/11, but before people write off everyone who thinks that the official explanation is not kosher as loons who think they have alien implants, they should do a search on yahoo or google under 9\/11 conspiracies. \r\nSome of thes sites raise some very troubling questions - like how come the so-called leader of the hijacker's wallet with identification just happened to be found on top of the Trade Center rubble? Why were not fighter planes scrambled? How did the badly trained terrorist "pilots" manage to fly high-speed planes right into the towers and, even more ashonishingly, into the relatively low Pentagon building? Professional military pilots have claimed that only someone with so-called top gun skills could pull off something like this. Why was there a run on airline stocks right before the tragedy? Why is there evidence that the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was actually shot down - including pieces of burned wreckage found eight miles from the crash site? And there are many more questions. No one should write off these sites without examining them.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 16:37:48","modified":"2003-06-28 16:37:48","fileurl":""},{"id":67857,"heading":"Typical Strawman","article":""like how come the so-called leader of the hijacker's wallet with identification just happened to be found on top of the Trade Center rubble? "\r\n\r\nExactly. This is a ludicrous claim. Please give some verifiable sources which show that this claim was ever even made. \r\n\r\nThe fabrication of an obvious absurd claim in order to shoot it down and use it as evidence of a conspiracy is a typical Strawman fallacy.\r\n\r\nClaims of finding the wallet on top of the rubble is simply more nonsense from the conspiracy crowd.\r\n\r\nProve me wrong.\r\n\r\nList some sources proving otherwise.","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 16:59:27","modified":"2003-06-28 16:59:27","fileurl":""},{"id":67858,"heading":"Well, I don't know.","article":"There are a lot of questions about 9-11 that definitely do need answering. But I don\u2019t think you listed the right ones, Meyer. If you asked 1000 people if they believe even the majority of stuff that they read on the internet, you might get one goofball to honestly answer in the affirmative. Truth is, the internet is chock-full of garbage. And by searching on the web for \u201cconspiracies\u201d on any subject, you\u2019re just going looking for trash. May as well go out back and dig through the dumpster for reading material.\r\n\r\nI for one believe wholeheartedly that Islamic Fundamentalists attacked us on 9-11. It\u2019s not that hard to fly and airplane. I bought a copy of Flight Simulator 2000 Professional and learned how to fly a 767. And before 9-11, it was easy to get ANYTHING you wanted onto an airplane. Once, I took a toolbag, complete with hammer, large crescent wrench, screwdrivers AND a utility knife right through security screening and onto a plane. Before 9-11 most people had a different attitude about hijackings. They assumed they could just sit tight, and most likely, the hijackers would just divert the flight to Havana or where ever, and eventually everyone would be okay. Not the case anymore.\r\n\r\nThe questions we do need to be addressing are not about conspiracies. They\u2019re about why this happened to begin with. Like:\r\n\r\nWhy do Islamic Fundamentalists hate America so much they would perpetrate such heinous acts of violence?\r\n\r\nWhy are our borders so open and our airports so unsecured that something like this could be allowed to happen?\r\n\r\nSure, anything\u2019s possible. Maybe GWB and company really did conspire to kill THOUSANDS of Americans in one fatal swoop; just so American companies could get a foothold in the Middle East and pump the oil dry. But for a reasonable person, that notion is just absurd. It seems just as likely to me, that Martians from outer space came down and shot high-powered ionic lasers at the towers just because they felt like it. If you\u2019re going to make accusations, especially accusations of that magnitude, accusations that point the finger at elected officials and people that most of us believe are trying to do what\u2019s in the best interests of the American people, don\u2019t you think you should do a little more than ask a bunch of outlandish questions? Don\u2019t you think you owe it to everyone that reads or listens to you to know and address the facts and be prepared to answer solidly and with hard undeniable evidence some of these questions and accusations you so readily are willing to make?\r\n","author":"Eric","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:03:45","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:23","fileurl":""},{"id":67860,"heading":"fresca & Eric","article":"Excellent questions. Problem is, it doesn't sell on Madison Avenue. There's just no way me and my comrades can sit around drinking and getting stoned while not blaming the fascist US government for all the worlds ills. Besides that, there's no money in it. You don't believe we do all this for free or for love of country or world community , do you? Hell, No!! Follow the money.","author":"leftists","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:10:02","modified":"2003-06-28 17:10:02","fileurl":""},{"id":67863,"heading":"You're doing an excellent job by the way.","article":"Don't think I haven't noticed. Almost as dedicated as me.","author":"Eric","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:14:44","modified":"2003-06-28 17:14:44","fileurl":""},{"id":67866,"heading":"To Eric...","article":"...yes there is a lot of bad info on the Internet, but nothing an intelligent and active reader can't figure out for themselves.\r\n\r\nThe Mainstream Presstitutes feel threatened, I do believe, by the Internet and for 2 Reasons:\r\n\r\n1. How dare people disregard us and go looking on their own and break our stranglehold on information flow.\r\n\r\n2. It threatens profits. Viewership of the Major Networks News, and in general, is declining precipitously. There was a time when about 90% of all people got their news from NBC, CBS, or ABC. No longer true. And they have the Ad Revenues to prove it.\r\n\r\nJust from my own experience - my TV is a dust collector. I have not turned it on in about 5 Months now.\r\n\r\nHowever, "Mystery!" will be back this year so I won't be able to keep it up on Thursday Nights.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:21:29","modified":"2003-06-28 17:21:29","fileurl":""},{"id":67871,"heading":"Have to agree.","article":"TV sux. And there is a lot of "programming" that is dealt to us by the major news networks. But I think it's a far stretch to claim it's a conspiracy.\r\n\r\nThey simply give us what we, collectively, want to hear. It's a shame really, but we bring it all on ourselves.\r\n\r\nAnd the internet could be a wonderful alternative, but its credibility is getting worse and worse by the moment. It's a lot of hard work trying to decipher internet reality from fiction! I commend anyone that is willing to go through that painstaking process. Most Americans don't have the time or the energy.\r\n\r\nI think there's really three groups of news consumers in America. Those that care and sincerely want to know the truth, those that could not care less, and those that want to be entertained. Most Americans fall in the tertiary category unfortunately.","author":"Eric","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:29:54","modified":"2003-06-28 17:29:54","fileurl":""},{"id":67877,"heading":"I have nothing against...","article":"...being entertained. However, the available programming on the Major's as you put it Sux.\r\n\r\nI can recall when there were some first rate, and intelligently written, programs on TV.\r\n\r\nPlayhouse 90\r\nThe Name of the Game\r\nSome of the Westerns were actually pretty good - I can still sing the Theme to "Have Gun Will Travel" - although I doubt you would want to hear me sing it.\r\nSome of the Comedies were even quite good - as opposed to the banal and sophomoric "Sitcoms" which are a pallid reflection of past glories e.g.,\r\nAdam's Rib\r\nBewitched\r\nSmother's Brothers\r\nand others that were actually entertaining and worth spending a few minutes on.\r\n\r\nSigh!","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:40:08","modified":"2003-06-28 17:40:08","fileurl":""},{"id":67879,"heading":"Nostalgia","article":"I guess we all long for the way things used to be, at times. But if there's a true conspiracy to be uncloaked, it is why TV sux so badly these days. Reality TV was somewhat interesting at first, but now it's just so syndicated and re-done and over-done, it's like Americans are junkies. Too much of what may have been a good thing. And it's like sit-com writers never put their hearts into their work anymore.\r\n\r\nBut I can think of a few in recent times that deserve honorable mention:\r\n\r\nCheers\r\nSeinfeld\r\n\r\n\r\nHmmm. Okay. Two.","author":"Eric","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:49:09","modified":"2003-06-28 17:49:09","fileurl":""},{"id":67881,"heading":"Oh.","article":"And "Love and Marriage" was pretty funny.","author":"Eric","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 17:52:07","modified":"2003-06-28 17:52:07","fileurl":""},{"id":67889,"heading":"Proof","article":" I don't have to prove anything to you; I already stated that I make no claim to know what happened on 9\/11.\r\nAll I suggested was that you keep an open mind and actually examine the so-called conspiracy sites before writing them off as nonsense - a concept that is obviously quite beyond you.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 18:12:23","modified":"2003-06-28 18:12:23","fileurl":""},{"id":67891,"heading":"except","article":""I don't have to prove anything to you; I already stated that I make no claim to know what happened on 9\/11. \r\n"\r\n\r\nThat's all fine and good, yet at the same time, you make statements such as the one regarding the ludicrous passport on the rubble trick.\r\n\r\nYou can't have it both ways.\r\n\r\nYou can't claim to have an open mind yet make statements obviously drawing conclusions.\r\n\r\nAnd let me ask you this mister "Open Mind".\r\nWhy is it that your "open mind" will entertain any sort of theory, evidence, conjecture or assumption except for the REMOTE POSSIBILITY that 9-11 was an attack by Muslim terrorists?\r\n\r\nIs it because, since we've been attacked by these terrorists regularly since, at least, 1982 in Beirut, that they must have gotten tired of it by now?\r\n\r\nYou'll go to such lengths to keep your "mind open" to every concievable permutation of theories and opinions concerning 9-11 except for one.\r\n\r\nWhy is that?\r\n\r\nWhy is the idea of 9-11 being a terorist attack so utterly and completely impossible for you to get your head around.\r\n\r\nAnd by the way, still waiting for the wallet in the rubble sources. You said it. You believe it. You better prove it.\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 18:22:16","modified":"2003-06-28 18:22:16","fileurl":""},{"id":67898,"heading":"Not true","article":" Somehow my statement that I don't claim to know what happened on 9\/11 becomes, to you, an utter refusal to examine the theory that it was a terrorist conspiracy. And the statement about the wallet is found on one of the websites, the value of which I urged you to decide for yourself by examining them.\r\n You seem to be a living representative of the failure of the American school system to instill critical thinking skills, and perhaps reading skills as well, in its students. No wonder we wound up with the Bushies and Reagan.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 18:40:05","modified":"2003-06-28 18:40:05","fileurl":""},{"id":67900,"heading":"Meyer you still didn't answer the question.","article":"Must be a conspiracy. Meyer fails to back up his allegations. Wallet on the rubble. Hmm. Only one conclusion: Meyer is a paid shill.","author":"Eric","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 18:44:39","modified":"2003-06-28 18:44:39","fileurl":""},{"id":67901,"heading":"Meyer, you're so full of shit","article":"You're a backpeddling coward,\r\n\r\nYou've been posting 9-11 CT bullshit or supporting other posts on here for weeks. You've NEVER posted one damn sentence where you've even remotely entertained the possibility of arab terrorism.\r\n\r\nWhat's more, you simply DID state the wallet nonsense as fact. You gave no link to any site. You threw it out there as if it was common knowledge. \r\n\r\nAnd let me hip you to something mister "open mind", critical thinking is NOT believing everything you WANT to believe.\r\n\r\nYou're in a corner mr "open mind".\r\n\r\nStop backpeddaling. Prove the wallet tripe you quoted as FACT.","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 18:52:14","modified":"2003-06-28 18:52:14","fileurl":""},{"id":67903,"heading":"The only conclusion","article":"is that you don't know how to read or that you are a troll intent on disrupting discussions on this board. Some of the 9\/11 sites state that the wallet was, conveniently for the defenders of the official line, found on the rubble - somewhat miraculously. I urged you to examine the sites yourself and judge whether they are worthy of being taken seriously. Why this wallet was found there (allegedly found there if you prefer) is one of the questions raised by the sites - a rather disturbing one, in my opinion. If you prefer not to have your preconceived opinions disturbed by ambiguities or contrary evidence, that is up to you. But I am not going to sit here and type up the same statements for you again and again. Maybe your problem is that you do too much talking and typing and not enough listening and reading.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 18:57:51","modified":"2003-06-28 18:57:51","fileurl":""},{"id":67905,"heading":"Meyer","article":"Ok...I'm going to start over.\r\n\r\nFirst of all I am going to sincerely apologize for berating you and insulting you. I want an actual discourse and I'm getting tired of the negativity. I can't control anyone else, but i'm going to try and reign in my cynical aggressiveness. I'm starting with you.\r\n\r\nI truly do apologize.\r\n\r\nSo here is my question.\r\n\r\nI have not been able to find such a site on my own through searching.\r\n\r\nCould you please give me the link to the one you saw?\r\n\r\nIf possible.\r\n\r\nThanks","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 19:02:07","modified":"2003-06-28 19:02:07","fileurl":""},{"id":67906,"heading":"sites","article":" A number of sites will mention the wallet story. I did a quick check and here is one that mentions it for sure: it has a typical, impossibly long web address but simply type in the key words who were the hijackers Dick Fojut on yahoo and it will come right up; it should be the first site listed. Who Were the Hijackers is the title of the site and Dick Fojut, not surprisingly, is the author. By the way, a better way than typing 9\/11 conspiracies to find sites is to type 9\/11 conspiracy. Needless to say, there will be hundreds, some arguing that there was no conspiracy (by the US) and others putting forth various theories on why there was.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 19:40:43","modified":"2003-06-28 19:40:43","fileurl":""},{"id":67907,"heading":"thanks","article":"Ok then. \r\n\r\nThanks Meyer.","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 19:43:23","modified":"2003-06-28 19:43:23","fileurl":""},{"id":67919,"heading":"consp. theoriracys","article":"consp. theories exist, some anyway. At least it's math. probable!! They open up avenues of questioning that most\/mainstream won't touch. course in the insidious hands of malcontents(muslim xtremists) this can be fireworks and spread outta+control . gotta deeal with, it,..i mean learn to diff...entiate--_--\r\n\r\n","author":"cuzin it","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 21:09:46","modified":"2003-06-28 21:09:46","fileurl":""},{"id":68070,"heading":"Eric","article":""Must be a conspiracy. Meyer fails to back up his allegations. Wallet on the rubble. Hmm. Only one conclusion: Meyer is a paid shill."\r\n\r\nI won't believe this until I see it on Fox News. They do all of my thinking for me.\r\n\r\n","author":"conservative","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 11:29:50","modified":"2003-06-29 11:29:50","fileurl":""},{"id":68079,"heading":"the govt's 911 conspiracy theory","article":"the only conspiracy theory about 911 is the govt 's - bnacked up by an impressive ZERO evidence.","author":"govt's conspiracy theory","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 11:45:15","modified":"2003-06-29 11:45:15","fileurl":""},{"id":68139,"heading":"New conspiracy","article":"The Easter Bunny exchanges coins for baby teeth.\r\n\r\nProve the Easter Bunny doesn't exist.","author":"Newton","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 14:13:40","modified":"2003-06-29 14:13:40","fileurl":""},{"id":68141,"heading":"except for...","article":""bnacked up by an impressive ZERO evidence."\r\n\r\n...those troublesome cellphone calls and videotaped confessions, amongst other.","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 14:46:22","modified":"2003-06-29 14:46:22","fileurl":""},{"id":68155,"heading":"Whoops!","article":"After consulting my copy of "Logic for Dummies," I just realized that one can't prove a negative. ","author":"Newton","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 15:14:26","modified":"2003-06-29 15:14:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68166,"heading":"HAR","article":"[-"bnacked up by an impressive ZERO evidence."\r\n...those troublesome cellphone calls and videotaped confessions, amongst other.]\r\nAll of which have been discredited and are being promoted repeatedly\r\nby yourself only. A.D.D.?","author":"Mr. HAR!!","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:17:14","modified":"2003-06-29 16:17:14","fileurl":""},{"id":68188,"heading":"Discredited?","article":"By who? Dio and a few other nuts?\r\n\r\nYou're going to have to do better than that.\r\n\r\nThe videotapes have been verified over and over and it's only a few simpletons at sites like this who can't accept the truth and claim they're phony.\r\n\r\nThe cellphone calls are obvious, unless you can explain how the "evil empire" somehow coerced the wives, friends and family members of the vivtims to go along with the ruse even after they lost their loved ones in the crashes.\r\n\r\nThat sure is some sacrifice on their part. But I guess all those common folk jumped at the chance to lie about recieving cell calls. Especially after knowing that the "government" was going to kill the people they loved in the name of oil.\r\n\r\nSure. That makes sense.\r\n\r\nOf all the evidence these two are simply irrefutable.\r\n\r\nIf not, feel free to give some verifiable sources.\r\n\r\nMaybe start with the famous "Ghost Riders in the Sky" fiasco which so many CT nuts point to which actually goes on to prove them wrong. You all are a very silly lot.\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:06:32","modified":"2003-06-29 17:06:32","fileurl":""},{"id":68199,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""The videotapes have been verified over and over and it's only a few simpletons at sites like this who can't accept the truth and claim they're phony."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." ","author":"debate coach","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:26:07","modified":"2003-06-29 17:26:07","fileurl":""},{"id":68216,"heading":"Proven Allegation","article":"Proven Allegation: Debate Coach has his head up his ass.","author":"Debate Coach Mentor","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:20:31","modified":"2003-06-29 18:20:31","fileurl":""},{"id":68217,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""Debate Coach has his head up his ass."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." Incidentally, the likes of Helen Keller could be YOUR mentor.\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:24:09","modified":"2003-06-29 18:24:09","fileurl":""},{"id":68351,"heading":"Discredited","article":"By who? Dio and a few other nuts? \r\n\r\nYou're going to have to do better than that. \r\n\r\nThe videotapes have been verified over and over and it's only a few simpletons at sites like this who can't accept the truth and claim they're phony. \r\n\r\nThe cellphone calls are obvious, unless you can explain how the "evil empire" somehow coerced the wives, friends and family members of the vivtims to go along with the ruse even after they lost their loved ones in the crashes. \r\n\r\nThat sure is some sacrifice on their part. But I guess all those common folk jumped at the chance to lie about recieving cell calls. Especially after knowing that the "government" was going to kill the people they loved in the name of oil. \r\n\r\nSure. That makes sense. \r\n\r\nOf all the evidence these two are simply irrefutable. \r\n\r\nIf not, feel free to give some verifiable sources. \r\n\r\nMaybe start with the famous "Ghost Riders in the Sky" fiasco which so many CT nuts point to which actually goes on to prove them wrong. You all are a very silly lot. \r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 04:30:20","modified":"2003-06-30 04:30:20","fileurl":""},{"id":68429,"heading":"Silly & Weak : REPOST","article":"Automatic, pointless and redundent.\r\nRefried spam.","author":"Smarmster","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:21:47","modified":"2003-06-30 12:21:47","fileurl":""},{"id":68432,"heading":"Discredited","article":"Refute it then. are you all really that lame that you give up on your dreams and fantasies so easily?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nBy who? Dio and a few other nuts? \r\n\r\nYou're going to have to do better than that. \r\n\r\nThe videotapes have been verified over and over and it's only a few simpletons at sites like this who can't accept the truth and claim they're phony. \r\n\r\nThe cellphone calls are obvious, unless you can explain how the "evil empire" somehow coerced the wives, friends and family members of the vivtims to go along with the ruse even after they lost their loved ones in the crashes. \r\n\r\nThat sure is some sacrifice on their part. But I guess all those common folk jumped at the chance to lie about recieving cell calls. Especially after knowing that the "government" was going to kill the people they loved in the name of oil. \r\n\r\nSure. That makes sense. \r\n\r\nOf all the evidence these two are simply irrefutable. \r\n\r\nIf not, feel free to give some verifiable sources. \r\n\r\nMaybe start with the famous "Ghost Riders in the Sky" fiasco which so many CT nuts point to which actually goes on to prove them wrong. You all are a very silly lot. \r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:37:13","modified":"2003-06-30 12:37:13","fileurl":""},{"id":68433,"heading":"ok, that's three....","article":"Spaming the same crap over and over.\r\nSomeone jog her .","author":"fresca is stuck in the rut.","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:42:02","modified":"2003-06-30 12:42:02","fileurl":""},{"id":68435,"heading":"And again as it seems to confuse you","article":"And again.\r\n\r\nIt's just too good.\r\n\r\nWhat part gets you all upset?\r\n\r\n\r\nRefute it then. are you all really that lame that you give up on your dreams and fantasies so easily? \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nBy who? Dio and a few other nuts? \r\n\r\nYou're going to have to do better than that. \r\n\r\nThe videotapes have been verified over and over and it's only a few simpletons at sites like this who can't accept the truth and claim they're phony. \r\n\r\nThe cellphone calls are obvious, unless you can explain how the "evil empire" somehow coerced the wives, friends and family members of the vivtims to go along with the ruse even after they lost their loved ones in the crashes. \r\n\r\nThat sure is some sacrifice on their part. But I guess all those common folk jumped at the chance to lie about recieving cell calls. Especially after knowing that the "government" was going to kill the people they loved in the name of oil. \r\n\r\nSure. That makes sense. \r\n\r\nOf all the evidence these two are simply irrefutable. \r\n\r\nIf not, feel free to give some verifiable sources. \r\n\r\nMaybe start with the famous "Ghost Riders in the Sky" fiasco which so many CT nuts point to which actually goes on to prove them wrong. You all are a very silly lot. \r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:44:26","modified":"2003-06-30 12:44:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68477,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""The videotapes have been verified over and over and it's only a few simpletons at sites like this who can't accept the truth and claim they're phony." \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations \r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." \r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 16:02:30","modified":"2003-06-30 16:02:30","fileurl":""},{"id":68480,"heading":"Then enlighten us","article":"If the tapes are phoney, then please cite the source of an expert who agrees with you. ","author":"Newton","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 16:12:36","modified":"2003-06-30 16:12:36","fileurl":""},{"id":68486,"heading":"And another thing","article":"Those tapes are authentic because Fox News told me so.","author":"Newton","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 16:32:28","modified":"2003-06-30 16:32:28","fileurl":""},{"id":76671,"heading":"HAHAHAHAHHAHA","article":"For those of you who think the government is up to something, I have a few things to ask and point out. \r\n\r\n>has anyone that has checked the message board accually looked at the flight path? (I had a hard time finding any)\r\n>>If they have, how much time where they off their designated path?\r\n>>>if they where off for a long time and did not respond to protocalls, how long do you think it would take the government to send an air defense weapon to destroy the plain? \r\n>>>>I can see where this is going, ( why would they kill so many people on a whim?) Why would they take down millions of people in middle eastern countries. \r\n<<<Has anyone who is reading this accually seen flight atendants? They would only need blunt objects to threaten a plane, while using guns would blow a hole in the plain causing depresurization. ","author":"turborage","parent_id":67797,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-08-12 01:38:14","modified":"2003-08-12 01:38:14","fileurl":""}]}