{"article":{"id":65072,"heading":"Want to Protest an Oppressive Government? Move to Iran!","author":"Neil MacFarqhuhar","created":"2003-06-17 12:37:22","modified":"2004-12-15 02:00:08","last_modified":"Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:00:08","article":"

The Islamic Association, a national student organization, is not quite what its name suggests.

\"No organization can operate in this country without putting `Islamic' in its name,\" snorts the elected leader of one association chapter, before launching a group discussion about dismantling theocracy established by the 1979 Islamic revolution.

The tension pitting official Iran against the kind of society in which most Iranians want to live cuts through all aspects of life here, erupting regularly into violence.

The latest outburst has been playing out in downtown Tehran for nearly a week, with nightly violent clashes between those seeking greater freedom and those bent on maintaining the government.

The demonstrations continued tonight, although they were more subdued than the ones late last week.

The government, which on Saturday blamed \"thugs and hooligans\" for fomenting the violence, has begun arresting students and their supporters.

The unrest does not appear to be over. Today, President Bush ( news -web sites ), in Kennebunkport, Me., lent his support to the demonstrators, saying, \"This is the beginning of people expressing themselves toward a free Iran which I think is positive.\"

In Iran today, several hundred dissident intellectuals, including several clerics, issued a statement supporting the right of Iranians to criticize their government. Further, the statement denounced as \"heresy\" the possession of absolute power a reference to Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Finally, the Iranian Student News Agency reported that students planned to hold their first daytime demonstration at noon Monday in downtown Tehran.

The week's protests highlight the question of how long a group of aging clerics can impose their vision of an Islamic state on a nation 70 percent of whose people are under 30.

While some Iranians still believe in their theocracy, the majority want a sweeping transformation. They do not want to be told what to think, what to wear, what to read, what to watch and how to behave, and they are frustrated at the glacial pace of change.

Still, the demonstrations do not really pose a serious challenge to the mullahs, because opponents of the system lack a unifying figure or organization that can translate their demands into public pressure.

They thought they had found their champion in President Mohammed Khatami, but calls for his resignation along with cries of \"Kill all the mullahs!\" during the protests showed how disillusioned his former supporters have become, how angry that their votes made so little difference.

\"Six years ago everyone was persuaded that the Islamic Republic could stay and Mr. Khatami as a clergyman could be president and we needed some changes like freedom of speech,\" said Mohsen Sazegara, a former aide to Ayatollah Khomeini and a reformist journalist, speaking before he was detained today with his son on charges of incitement.

\"Now day by day people are becoming more radical in their demands,\" he added. \"People are saying everything must be changed.\"

But there is no collective vision of a viable alternative. \"The problem with reforms is that Iranians know what they don't want, but they do not know what they want,\" said Muhammad, a 24-year-old student. Many students interviewed did not want their full names or schools published, saying they feared subsequent harassment.

Mostly, young people here want the government to stop interfering in their day-to-day lives.

Faruda, a 20-year-old math major at an Isfahan university, was told to report to the campus morals committee last month.

\"They said I was talking to men too much,\" she said, and that her clothing was immodest.

They lectured her for three hours, Faruda said, handing her a list of 13 verses to read from the Koran about proper women's dress. \"I just listened; you can't argue back because it's the Koran,\" she said.

Men get into similar trouble. Students at the same university said a male student was cursed as an infidel and beaten by members of Baseej, a paramilitary government organization whose older members are the shock troops used to put down student demonstrations. His infraction? Walking down the dormitory corridor in his underwear.

Reformists point out that students in Tehran can hold hands in public now, but in the provinces even that liberty is denied.

\"It takes a lot of courage just to walk with a woman down the main street of Isfahan,\" said Payam, a 21-year-old with the shoulder-length hair that many male students grow as a form of protest.

\"We don't want a government that prescribes to us all the time what is good and what is bad,\" he added.

Activist students are struck by the fact that the revolution puts great emphasis on education, then seeks to veil their minds.

\"We should be able to criticize the government, the religion,\" said Hamed, a 21-year-old engineering major. \"If we want to be able to understand it, we should be able to criticize it.\"

Students concede that they are given far more leeway than society in general. Student journals published articles backing the American invasion of Iraq, for example, something impossible in the country at large.

But its the lack of change in society in general that grates on many.

Take this spring's mysterious ban on manteaux the coats women are supposed to wear in public. Their hemlines have been creeping steadily upward, to the point that they come much closer to long shirts than the black cloaks considered the ideal revolutionary hejab.

Suddenly in May all the manteaux shops in Tehran got a warning to stop selling short coats.

\"Recently the improper Islamic hejab of some women in the city has caused certain worries and social abnormalities,\" the letter began, warning store owners not to sell anything tight-fitting, above the knee or with slits.

The offending item disappeared from store windows, and many women stopped wearing the short pink or white cloaks, even though government agencies contacted by the Iranian press denied sending the letter.

\"We shouldn't listen, but we get scared, so you see a lot of women wearing darker colors these days,\" said Aliyeh Almoodayee, a 21-year-old graphics art student.

Abdollah Ramezanzadeh, the spokesman for President Khatami, said: \"They want to create the perception of fear. They are trying to do something to say they are powerful, but they cannot make real problems for people anymore.\"

Reformists believe that, with 48 million Iranians under 30, time is their ally. Change must come eventually.

There are, of course, those who support crackdowns.

\"Times are hard so young men have trouble getting married,\" said Fatimeh Ahmedi, a 40-year-old mother. \"The freer women become the more men would be tempted to get involved in immoral acts.\"

Such sentiments find their echoes among conservative students and others. In the office of the Islamic Students Society, the conservative counterpart of the Islamic Association, portraits of the late revolutionary patriarch Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini stare down from the wall in every room and his thoughts dominate the conversation.

\"We have an ideology in this country and it forms the center of all our dialogues,\" said Majdodin Muallimi, the secretary general of the society. \"What is more important than anything to us is our religion, our faith and our ideology.\"

Mr. Muallimi and others like him admit that the Islamic revolution has failed to get rid of government corruption or to create economic growth, as it promised to do, but they argue that Iranians still support the system. They point to the 80 percent participation of people in the last presidential election as proof.

Former stalwart supporters of the revolution like Hassan, a 65-year-old retiree from a government enterprise ( news -web sites ) in Isfahan, are tired of their votes being thus misrepresented. That is something Hassan would like to change.

\"The day the shah left the country was the happiest day of my life,\" he said. \"But these have become the worst days whatever they promised the revolution would bring was a lie. Unemployment is high, inflation is bad, the economy is bad, the society is full of addicts.\"

He and his wife and children joined millions who did not cast ballots in the February elections for municipal councils. Turnout in major cities hovered around 10 percent.

\"The political clerics took our participation as a approval for the system as a whole,\" said Hassan, adding that the clerics exploit religion just to hang onto power. \"So we decided not to go do any of that anymore.\"

Despite their rancor, Hassan and many of the students disagree with those, and there are some, who would like to see the United States force a change of government, as it did in Iraq.

They were dismayed by President Bush's praise of the demonstrations, believing that many Iranians will see his words as foreign meddling, strengthening the conservatives. Indeed, both the leadership and the press loyal to it have portrayed the students and their supporters as the paid tools of the United States.

They said that many people went into the streets at the behest of monarchist television stations, based in California and broadcasting to Iran via satellite. Those people, the government said, want the shah's son returned to power, a view most Iranians considered a joke.

Far better, many students and men like Hassan say, to leave the process of developing a democracy to the Iranians themselves.

\"We were taught to accept everything, not to ask why,\" Hassan said. \"Change will come with the new generation when we are all gone. Change will come with my grandsons, because they ask why about everything.\" <\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"http:\/\/story.news.yahoo.com\/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&ncid=68&e=1&u=\/nyt\/20030616\/ts_nyt\/youngiraniansarechafingunderagingclericsedicts","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"Want to protest against an oppressive government. Then you should consider moving to Tehran. In contrast to the USA, they actually do have an oppressive government over there. Young Iranians Are Chafing Under Aging Clerics' Edicts ","numcomment":62,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2003\/06\/65072.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":120273,"heading":"none","article":"Lol ! " Stealing oil " Lol ! Who the fu*k in The West " steals oil " ????? Ever hear of OPEC ? We PAY for oil . Even France and Chirac PAY for oil even though France gave Saddam $20 billion dollars worth of weapons AND gave Saddam nuclear weapons technology (and they gave nuke tech to Isreal) in exchange for France getting 25 percent of Iraq oil industry . ","author":"me","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-12-15 01:58:20","modified":"2004-12-15 01:58:20","fileurl":""},{"id":120274,"heading":"yes","article":"Who gives a shit ? If its not bad news about the yanks no one cares .","author":"me","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-12-15 02:00:08","modified":"2004-12-15 02:00:08","fileurl":""},{"id":65073,"heading":"How about this instead?","article":"Both the US Government and the Government of Iran are oppressive. Since I am an American, I should focus my energy addressing the injustices of the American Government and leave the question of Iran to the Iranians.\r\n\r\nSince my tax dollars enable Israel, the actions of Israel are as much my concern as the actions of the US. Therefore, I also protest against Israel. As for Iran, my tax dollars do not support Iran.\r\n\r\nIt's pretty obvious that fascists would rather see me wasting my energy assisting in their grand geopolitical goals (such as stealing Iranian oil). Too bad for the fascists, we aren't dumb enough to be their useful idiots.\r\n\r\nMary\r\nSupporter of Stop Fascism! and Devoy.\r\n","author":"Mary","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 12:43:47","modified":"2003-06-17 12:43:47","fileurl":""},{"id":65075,"heading":"Our government oppressive?","article":"Mary - You think our government is oppressive?\r\n\r\nYea, I guess you're right. We do have oppressive excess taxation, with our income being confiscated and squandered on worthless social programs. We ought to protest that.\r\n\r\nAnd we do have oppressive laws forcing some people to join labor unions against their will. We ought to protest that and demand that right to work laws be mandatory.\r\n\r\nBut I fail to get your point re Israel. In case you haven't noticed, the American public supports Israel overwhelmingly in the conflict with the Palestinians. That's because the PLO continues to support terrorist organizations. The American public will never support a terrorist regime like the PLO.\r\n\r\n","author":"Bush Admirer","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 12:59:11","modified":"2003-06-17 12:59:11","fileurl":""},{"id":65080,"heading":"Ayatollah a Go Go!","article":"It should be obvious to all... the next stop for Bu$h's "Middle East express" war train is Iran.\r\n\r\nThe news stories are starting to rise in the corporate press... "Iran is developing Nuclear weapons", "Iranian Students protest for freedom", "Iran accused of protecting terrorists", etc.\r\n\r\nThe U.S. has a long score to settle with Iran, but moreover... Iran has lots of OIL (unlike Syria or Korea). In the 1950's the U.S. acted to overturn the elected government of Iran and placed the Shah in control. \r\n\r\nKeep your eyes and ears open... Iran is next.","author":"non","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 13:25:16","modified":"2003-06-17 13:25:16","fileurl":""},{"id":65097,"heading":"Bush Lover? Ick!","article":"The US GOVERNEMNT supports Israel you piece of shit- do not attempt to speak for the American people-they may be idiots but they're not THAT idiotic. What a disgusting nom de pleure...I can smell you all the way up here...Maybe we could use some of those 'wasted' tax dollars on your re-education?","author":"M","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 17:18:32","modified":"2003-06-17 17:18:32","fileurl":""},{"id":65098,"heading":"CBS News poll","article":"This poll is from April 2002:\r\n\r\nBy a margin of five to one, Americans sympathize more with Israel. Fifty-two percent say that, while just 10 percent sympathize more with the Palestinians. Fifteen percent, however, sympathize with neither. ","author":"Newton","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 17:26:37","modified":"2003-06-17 17:26:37","fileurl":""},{"id":65152,"heading":"Mary","article":"America has a repressive government, huh?\r\n\r\nAre you prohibited from driving? From voting? Are you forced to cover your hair and face in public?\r\n\r\nWere you given a mandatory clitorectomy?\r\n\r\nNo?\r\n\r\nThen what are you complainin' about?","author":"daveman","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 00:00:22","modified":"2003-06-18 00:00:22","fileurl":""},{"id":65156,"heading":"Iran","article":"These Iranian mullahs are hopefully getting ready to take it on the chin, and that's great. The Iranian people deserve better than to be ruled by a bunch of nuts like those who held Americans hostages for 400+days. The news is reporting "students" uprising, but it's more than students. It's all people there who are tired of being told what to wear, when to get up, when to sleep, who to worship, how to worship, how to breathe, how to skip, how high to jump, what to say, how to say it, etc etc etc. regardless of their age, occupation and status.\r\n\r\nAnd to Mary... whatever, toots!!","author":"brigg","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 00:09:42","modified":"2003-06-18 00:09:42","fileurl":""},{"id":65175,"heading":"Ayotollah Ruhollah Homeneii...","article":"...another case of C.I.A. Blow Back.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 02:26:26","modified":"2003-06-18 02:26:26","fileurl":""},{"id":65185,"heading":"Another way to put this...","article":"...is we are not as repressive as Iran yet so shut up and do what you are told.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 04:16:40","modified":"2003-06-18 04:16:40","fileurl":""},{"id":65192,"heading":"did you know...","article":" that 9 out of 10 military men sympathize with other military men? Ill start listening to americans when they turn off their reality tv shows and football games and show examples of a little culture and maturity.","author":"thomaston","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 05:09:02","modified":"2003-06-18 05:09:02","fileurl":""},{"id":65202,"heading":"Well, gee, thomaston...","article":"...we'll be sure to rush right on out and overhaul our entire culture (or at least the small parts you object to) just so you'll listen to us.\r\n\r\nCould you do me a favor and turn down the "Arrogance" knob? It's set pretty high. The "Pompous" knob is set at about Dio's level, and we can tolerate that.\r\n\r\nThanks. ","author":"daveman","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 08:03:09","modified":"2003-06-18 08:03:09","fileurl":""},{"id":65203,"heading":"Further, your little statistic:","article":"Let's rephrase it, shall we?\r\n\r\n9 out of 10 people sympathize with people with similar experiences.\r\n\r\nThere! Now it doesn't matter if we're talking about the military, McDonald's fry cooks, deep sea fishermen, or arrogant-for-no-good-reason foreigners.","author":"daveman","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 08:07:54","modified":"2003-06-18 08:07:54","fileurl":""},{"id":65213,"heading":"daveman","article":" please overhaul it.","author":"arrogant armando","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 10:19:34","modified":"2003-06-18 10:19:34","fileurl":""},{"id":65225,"heading":"Did any of you...","article":"...see the latest episode of "The Bachelor?" It was so suspenseful!!! My panties got wet.","author":"daveman","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 11:33:38","modified":"2003-06-18 11:33:38","fileurl":""},{"id":65283,"heading":"CIA is evil","article":""...another case of C.I.A. Blow Back."\r\n\r\nFor god's sake man, you can't blame everything on the CIA! There are "bad" people in the world, but not all of them work at the CIA.\r\nAlthough I don't doubt some CIA involvement in the 1953 coup attempt, but make no mistake it was engineered by MI6, after all it was a British oil company that Iran tired to nationalize. After all the British did reject Persia\u2019s fair compensation terms.\r\n","author":"Everything is the CIA's fault","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 14:32:38","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:09","fileurl":""},{"id":65289,"heading":"The C.I.A. is a tool...","article":"...such a tool can be used for good or evil.\r\n\r\nWhat does the historical record show?\r\n\r\nMK Ultra\r\n\r\nOperation Mockingbird\r\n\r\nInserting Agent Provacateurs into Protest Movements.\r\n\r\nEngineering Putschs in support of American Business Interests? Somoza, Allende, Suharto anyone?\r\n\r\nSo, answer your own question.\r\n\r\nLook at the Facts not the Tom Clancy unreality.\r\n\r\nThey are not "Knights in Shining Armor". They are a tool; a tool that has been used for evil as often as not.\r\n\r\nThey have become the direct antithesis of Government in the Sunshine. They dwell in shadows, operate in shadows, and work for shadows.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 14:42:43","modified":"2003-06-18 14:42:43","fileurl":""},{"id":65294,"heading":"CIA is shit","article":"Is that all they have done since 47? wow they do suck, we should get rid of them.","author":"They suck","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 14:55:52","modified":"2003-06-18 14:55:52","fileurl":""},{"id":65295,"heading":"Indymedia sucks","article":"Isn't it amazing how these freaks are so quick to point out America's faults while ignoring multiple mass murders around the globe. Murders that America has nothing to do with.\r\n\r\nThey have no honor.","author":"indymedia crys like old women","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 14:57:43","modified":"2003-06-18 14:57:43","fileurl":""},{"id":65591,"heading":"Good point.","article":"America has the highest murder rate in the world","author":"Antisthenes","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 23:23:33","modified":"2003-06-19 23:23:33","fileurl":""},{"id":65616,"heading":"And.....","article":""They dwell in shadows, operate in shadows, and work for shadows."\r\n\r\n\r\n....you would prefer....?","author":"fresca","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 00:58:01","modified":"2003-06-20 00:58:01","fileurl":""},{"id":65645,"heading":"Haven't been here in awhile","article":"I haven't looked at this board for a few months and I still see the same morons posting the same idiotic bullshit on here. Don't you people have a life? If you hate the US so much then leave! We have a right to defend ourselves no matter what foreign policy was in effect over 20 years ago! What matters is now and the future. We must prevent terrorists from getting WMD's or let ourselves or our children or grandchildren face the consequences! Don't you understand that? And another thing, I like the majority of all Americans, am glad that a new Democratic government is being installed in Iraq, and I do not give a rats ass if they never find any WMD because the fact is that we did a huge favor to the Iraqi people by changing their government. Didn't you see the pictures of mass graves? I know some of you think that its OK for that since you don't live in Iraq. Well, I'm not only an American, but I'm also Human and I would like to see all people have the right to live out their lives without fear of a murderous regime killing them off because of their religion. ","author":"Pro-Terrorists must be re-educated","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 02:50:25","modified":"2003-06-20 02:50:25","fileurl":""},{"id":65883,"heading":"KOBE","article":"If you hate Arabs, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, and Koreans, come to Computers N.L.A. for a purely Aryan shopping experience. No funny accents at our shop. Just red blooded Americans.\r\n","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 17:45:28","modified":"2003-06-20 17:45:28","fileurl":""},{"id":66024,"heading":"usa=iran","article":"same fundamentalism:\r\n\r\nin alabama,by law blowjobs forbidden.\r\n\r\nin cali,screw under age and you're busted.\r\n\r\nin many states,sodomy is a crime.\r\n\r\nwhy go to iran? we are in iran already.","author":"usa=iran","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 14:52:30","modified":"2003-06-21 14:52:30","fileurl":""},{"id":66152,"heading":"Not exactly...","article":"in alabama,by law blowjobs forbidden. BAD LAW\r\n\r\nin cali,screw under age and you're busted. GOOD LAW\r\n\r\nin many states,sodomy is a crime. BAD LAW\r\n\r\nwhy go to iran? we are in iran already. WRONG\r\n\r\n*************************IN IRAN (under Islamic Law)*************************\r\n\r\nCommit adultery, get stoned to death\r\n\r\nGet caught stealing, have the right hand amputated\r\n\r\nCommit a rape, get castrated\r\n\r\nIn addition, the following is prohibited:\r\n\r\nWatching TV\r\nDrinking alcohol\r\nEating pork\r\nShowing more flesh than clothing\r\nHanging pictures of family or pets on a wall\r\nDisplaying posters of any type (unless religious in nature)\r\n\r\nIf you are a woman, add the following\r\n\r\nDisplaying the breast, or even cleavage of the breast\r\nDisplaying the legs above the ankle\r\nDisplaying your face (except your eyes, and in some cases ONE eye.\r\nWearing makeup\r\nWalking side by side with your husband\r\nLaughing in public\r\nShaming your family in any way.\r\n\r\nIf you were in Iran, ladies, your brother could actually legally KILL you if he thought you brought dishonor to your family.\r\n\r\n**********************************************************\r\n\r\nAll of this sound a little crazy? I agree with you. Its called Sharia Law, and it is the fundamentalist law of Islam. Verify it here: http:\/\/news.bbc.co.uk\/1\/hi\/world\/africa\/1893589.stm then do a search for Sharia Law, Koranic Law, or Islamic Law in any search engine. ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM IS SICK SICK SICK.\r\n\r\nGet educated, not fucking STUPID!\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 00:44:28","modified":"2003-06-22 00:44:28","fileurl":""},{"id":66442,"heading":"kobe is an asshole","article":"actually ya made me realize the us is even worse than iran:\r\n\r\nbecause in the us you can get the death penalty for NOTHING AT ALL - ya don't even need to commit adultery -\r\n\r\nsuffice you get caught and framed say in texas especially if minority - and poor - you get a fucking state lawyer who sleeps in court cuz on booze or worse - no fair trial - and finally governor fucking ayatollah bush denying grace and laughing at your repenting - or your innocence.\r\n\r\ncali under age sex prohibition is not a good law - it's bad because there's no reason at all against teen screwing - quite the contrary,it's healthy to have orgasms and love.\r\n\r\nexcept for you wanker mole pervert.\r\n\r\nbye dave...ooops,I meant "kobe".","author":"kobe is an asshole","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 13:11:47","modified":"2003-06-23 13:11:47","fileurl":""},{"id":66755,"heading":"If you are that stupid, you DESERVE what you get","article":""suffice you get caught and framed say in texas especially if minority - and poor - you get a fucking state lawyer who sleeps in court cuz on booze or worse - no fair trial - and finally governor fucking ayatollah bush denying grace and laughing at your repenting - or your innocence. "\r\n\r\nGOOD. Get your floppy ass off the street and into the jails I help support. That's what they are for. If you are poor for ANY other reason except disability, then somewhere along the line you FUCKED UP. There's just too much opportunity in this great country for any excuses. Besides, if you are stupid enough to be fucking somebody who is underage AND you are poor, you should rot in jail.\r\n\r\nPS: May name is not Dave, or Ned, or Tom or anyone who works at Computers NLA. I dont work at Computers NLA, and I have NEVER worked there.","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 09:37:15","modified":"2003-06-25 09:37:15","fileurl":""},{"id":66767,"heading":"kobe is wrong","article":">>GOOD. Get your floppy ass off the street and into the jails I help support. That's what they are for. If you are poor for ANY other reason except disability, then somewhere along the line you FUCKED UP. There's just too much opportunity in this great country for any excuses. Besides, if you are stupid enough to be fucking somebody who is underage AND you are poor, you should rot in jail. <<\r\n\r\ntha fact that you are poor for whatever reason does not imply you don't have a right to a fair trial just like anyone else.\r\n\r\nbut in this country the ojs murder on and get away with it;\r\nthe poor especially when minority go to their deaths without a fair trial.\r\n\r\nthe law is equal for all or it isn't a democracy.\r\n\r\nand that's the point.\r\n\r\nand again:under age fucking is highly commendable and natural.\r\n\r\nthat the poor are guilty for being poor is something you either prove or else shut the fuck up and go give the neocons another blowjob,con.\r\n\r\nbye dave....ooops,I meant "kobe".","author":"kobe is wrong","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 10:40:54","modified":"2003-06-25 10:40:54","fileurl":""},{"id":66775,"heading":"NAMBLA pervs at LA-IMC","article":""cali under age sex prohibition is not a good law - it's bad because there's no reason at all against teen screwing - quite the contrary,it's healthy to have orgasms and love."\r\n\r\nThe supporters of NAMBLA continue to try and chink away at the armour.","author":"gjj","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 10:56:42","modified":"2003-06-25 10:56:42","fileurl":""},{"id":66782,"heading":"what's nambla?","article":"sounds as if you're an assmole giJ - anyway either you come up with arguments against under age sex or backfiring insults will only make you look more like a fool.","author":"what's nambla?","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:06:31","modified":"2003-06-25 11:06:31","fileurl":""},{"id":66792,"heading":"Here's an argument against underage sex.","article":"Recently, in the parallel bizarro leftist dimension of our world, age of consent laws have been systematically done away with...\r\n\r\nA forty-two year old pedophile rapes your twelve year old daughter.\r\n\r\nYou call the authorities, but the rapist claims it was concensual.\r\n\r\nHer word against his.\r\n\r\nAnd you've got no legal recourse.\r\n\r\nIf you can't figure out why age of consent laws are a good thing, then you're an idiot.","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:25:36","modified":"2003-06-25 11:25:36","fileurl":""},{"id":66793,"heading":"left's call fool= truly wise","article":"The left calls me a fool. In doing that, I can rest assured in knowing that, in fact, I am truly wise.","author":"leftysarenincompoops","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:38:52","modified":"2003-06-25 11:38:52","fileurl":""},{"id":66795,"heading":"eric's bullcrap","article":"1- we are not talking about rape here - we're talkin' about consensual sex\r\n\r\n2->>Her word against his. \r\n\r\nAnd you've got no legal recourse. <<\r\n\r\nprove that you've got no legal recourse.\r\n\r\nfurthermore,rape unlike consensual sex leaves behind scars and other phisycal evidence.\r\n\r\na 12 year old may or may not be pubescent yet.\r\n\r\nlet's make it clear we are talking about teen sex - that is ,after puberty. pedophilia has nothing to do with this asshole.\r\n\r\nif 15ooo people a year die in car crashes nobody bans cars.\r\n\r\nyet for 1 rape every thousand consensual fucks you ban teen sex.\r\n\r\nfuck off dave...ooops,I meant eric.\r\nanyway mole,whatever.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"eric's bullcrap","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:44:18","modified":"2003-06-25 11:44:18","fileurl":""},{"id":66804,"heading":"I don't have to prove anything.","article":"Underage laws are just that. LAWS. The proofs have already been made. The contention rests squarely upon YOUR shoulders. Not mine.\r\n\r\nWhy do you draw the line at puberty? Why can't those that desire to do so, have sex with children? With toddlers?\r\n\r\nJust because an individual is post-pubescent does not mean that they are mentally or psychologically prepared for sex. 99% of them are not financially prepared for the consequenses of sex or child birth. If your permissive, liberal platform commends children birthing babies, then all I can say is that you're a twisted and disassociated human being. In short, sick.\r\n\r\nFortunately for the rest of us, you're pissing in a fan with your vituperations and vitriol.","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 12:00:00","modified":"2003-06-25 12:00:00","fileurl":""},{"id":66806,"heading":"eric the pervert","article":">>The proofs have already been made.<<\r\n\r\njust what proofs? either come up with them or shut the hell up idiot.\r\n\r\none does not should not fuck with toddlers or the prepubescent because they are not physically ready for sex.\r\n\r\nthis does not mean that there exists no child sexuality amongst children,which should be allowed to follow its free course.\r\n\r\nthe teens who are not mature for sex would not be forced to have sex.\r\n\r\nbut those who are ought to be allowed to.\r\n\r\nand it's up to the teens to decide not to perverts like you.\r\n\r\ngo eat bush now asshole.","author":"eric the pervert","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 12:14:00","modified":"2003-06-25 12:14:00","fileurl":""},{"id":66811,"heading":"Ooooooooo. Testy testy.","article":"The logical arguments of the champion of teenage promiscuity.\r\n\r\nThe law is the law. If you don't like them, tough shit. Your opinion doesn't matter.\r\n\r\nHAR!","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 12:28:27","modified":"2003-06-25 12:28:27","fileurl":""},{"id":66814,"heading":"eric in denial","article":"...still refusing to address any issue with arguments...mmmmm...\r\ncould it be that you can't?\r\n\r\nusa=iran.","author":"eric in denial","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 12:52:45","modified":"2003-06-25 12:52:45","fileurl":""},{"id":66818,"heading":"I'm not going to waste my energy on you.","article":"Where are YOUR logical arguments? I haven't seen even one. All I've seen from you is invective after ad hominem. When YOU decide YOU want a cogent dialogue, let us all know. Until then, you can keep pissing into that fan.","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 13:11:34","modified":"2003-06-25 13:11:34","fileurl":""},{"id":66832,"heading":"eric=kobe","article":"...assmole spamming the wire 24\/7 with self-multiplied monikers to make it seem there's more than 1 fascist weirdo at a time on a left-wing site...\r\n\r\narguments?\r\n\r\nI've provided plenty that the us is just another fundamentalist theocracy.\r\n\r\ncounterarguments on your part:none.\r\n\r\ncan't bush afford a better spammer?","author":"eric=kobe","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 13:55:24","modified":"2003-06-25 13:55:24","fileurl":""},{"id":66855,"heading":"eric = KOBE = Computers NLA","article":"Tired of KOBE SBM? Call Computers NLA of Harbor City. Keep calling them. Heck, visit them and make funny faces at the freaks that work there.","author":"Joe","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 14:50:16","modified":"2003-06-25 14:50:16","fileurl":""},{"id":66860,"heading":"No. Don't. Stop. Please.","article":"Oh no. Don't call Computers NLA. Please. No. Don't. Stop. Don't. Stop. Don't. Stop.\r\n\r\n","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 14:53:45","modified":"2003-06-25 14:53:45","fileurl":""},{"id":66863,"heading":"eric fuck off","article":"the issue here is: usa=fundamentalist theocracy =iran.\r\n\r\neither stick to it or shove yer mouse up yer ass,mole.","author":"eric the prickhead","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 14:57:15","modified":"2003-06-25 14:57:15","fileurl":""},{"id":66868,"heading":"Oooooo.","article":"A dominatrix. Into S&M. Kinky.","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 14:59:25","modified":"2003-06-25 14:59:25","fileurl":""},{"id":66872,"heading":"How to contact KOBE SBM at Computers NLA.","article":"You can contact my personal fan club president, KOBE SBM, at Computers NLA by calling THIS toll free number:\r\n\r\n1-888-266-7652\r\n\r\nI suggest that every time you see a post by KOBE SBM, you pick up the telephone and dial. Don't assume that someone else will do it. It's important to take action yourself.\r\n\r\nDon't worry about KOBE SBM claims that there is a trap on the line (something he claims to know while claiming to not work for Computers NLA). It is not illegal to call them and simply state, politely, that you think they should constrain this mentally ill fool's behavior.","author":"George W. Bush","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 15:04:17","modified":"2003-06-25 15:04:17","fileurl":""},{"id":66876,"heading":"eric's ongoing spam","article":"no adherence to the point.\r\n\r\nrefusal to address the issues.\r\n\r\npathetic would-be humor.\r\n\r\ngo give bush another one,craphead.","author":"eric's ongoing spam","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 15:07:20","modified":"2003-06-25 15:07:20","fileurl":""},{"id":66881,"heading":"Garbage In, Garbage Out.","article":"You get what you give, schmegma brain. I'm mearly an AI subroutine on a government computer out here in cyberspace with the prime directive of smashing leftists into cornmeal. What do you expect?","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 15:12:50","modified":"2003-06-25 15:12:50","fileurl":""},{"id":66884,"heading":"I expect for you to get cancer and die","article":"...no actually a car crash tonite or a heart attack is better - quicker and to the point.\r\n\r\ngo eat cheney's dick one last time.","author":"eric get cancer and die","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 15:18:19","modified":"2003-06-25 15:18:19","fileurl":""},{"id":66894,"heading":"Hee hee hee.","article":"The peacnik wants me to die tragically. Hee hee hee.\r\n\r\nIsn't he cute, folks?\r\n\r\nSilly anarchist. algorithms can't get cancer. And they can't drive either. Back to kindergarten you go!","author":"Eric","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 15:24:57","modified":"2003-06-25 15:24:57","fileurl":""},{"id":66950,"heading":"You have 100% solid proof","article":"That I am Kobe SBM don't you Steven?\r\n\r\nWell I would love to dispute your 100% but I have to go do things for a few hours.\r\n\r\nLMAO at Stevie and his 100%...","author":"Rational Normal Person","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 18:28:44","modified":"2003-06-25 18:28:44","fileurl":""},{"id":66951,"heading":"Talking to you is like talking to a dog or a parrot.","article":""If you are not connected to them, how do you know that no one is calling them?"\r\n\r\nJESUS CHRIST, IDIOT! I buy computer supplies from them for the company I work for. I am STILL buying computer supplies from them, and they have become friends of mine over the two years I have known them. We know each other by name. Even YOU know their names. My website used to be on their server. You started harassing them as a result of that. I talk to them often, and things which relate to you and your bullshit are relayed to me, or I ask them about it.\r\n\r\nI thought you were 100% absolutely sure that I was Dave Young, Stephen. WHO AM I TODAY? The "messages" posted on my website were not illegal, and any messages posted on my PUBLIC forum are not my responsibility. \r\n\r\n","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 18:38:53","modified":"2003-06-25 18:38:53","fileurl":""},{"id":67443,"heading":"Iran","article":"Iran is a leftists paradise.","author":"Trudy G.","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 16:15:26","modified":"2003-06-27 16:15:26","fileurl":""},{"id":67451,"heading":"trudy g the mole","article":"a real leftist considers iran and all theocracies the opiate of the people.\r\n\r\nbut for a bible-belt fanatic or similar who supports laws forbidding blowjobs in arizona,teen sex in cali,sodomy in many state,and obviously the death penalty for the poor without a fair trial in texas and elsewhere,iran would be a rel paradise - except they now need another profitable war so these bible wankers find it expedient to demonize their islamic equivalent.","author":"trudy g what a dork","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 16:24:05","modified":"2003-06-27 16:24:05","fileurl":""},{"id":67454,"heading":"^","article":""Welcome to my home," said the spider to the fly.\r\n","author":"perfect","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 16:27:59","modified":"2003-06-27 16:27:59","fileurl":""},{"id":67462,"heading":"thanx 12.24","article":"freedom for teen sex - the best vaccine against fascism.\r\n\r\nwilhelm reich lives on.","author":"abolish cali sex law","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 16:33:49","modified":"2003-06-27 16:33:49","fileurl":""},{"id":67666,"heading":"To "perfect"","article":"Would you like to lick my diseased snatch?","author":"Trudy G.","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 11:39:33","modified":"2003-06-28 11:39:33","fileurl":""},{"id":68412,"heading":"sodomy laws","article":"the supreme court has recently struck the texas sodomy law.\r\n\r\ngood.\r\n\r\nbut in too many states sodomy laws are still there:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.anairhoads.org\/politics\/gayrightstexas.shtml\r\n\r\n>>kansas missouri and oklahoma see acts of the same sex as criminal and enforce fines and prison time if caught.\r\n>>kansas has a 1000-dollar fine and 6 months of time.the same for missouri.but with an addtional 6 months.\r\n>>the strictest state is oklahoma,which holds the maximum of 10 years imprisonment if found guilty of sodomy.<<\r\n\r\n\r\nwanna protest an oppressive govt?\r\n\r\nmove to oklahoma...","author":"sodomy laws","parent_id":65072,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 11:41:25","modified":"2003-06-30 11:41:25","fileurl":""}]}