{"article":{"id":64734,"heading":"The Dog Ate My WMDs","author":"C\/O Diogenes","created":"2003-06-14 21:25:00","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:06","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:23:06","article":"

  The Dog Ate My WMDs

  By William Rivers Pitt

  t r u t h o u t | Perspective

  Friday 13 June 2003

  After several years teaching high school, I've heard all the excuses. I didn't get my homework done because my computer crashed, because my project partner didn't do their part, because I feel sick, because I left it on the bus, because I had a dance recital, because I was abducted by aliens and viciously probed. Houdini doesn't have as many tricks. No one on earth is more inventive than a high school sophomore backed into a corner and faced with a zero on an assignment.

  No one, perhaps, except Bush administration officials forced now to account for their astounding claims made since September 2002 regarding Iraq's alleged weapons program.

  After roughly 280 days worth of fearful descriptions of the formidable Iraqi arsenal, coming on the heels of seven years of UNSCOM weapons inspections, four years of surveillance, months of UNMOVIC weapons inspections, the investiture of an entire nation by American and British forces, after which said forces searched \"everywhere\" per the words of the Marine commander over there and \"found nothing,\" after interrogating dozens of the scientists and officers who have nothing to hide anymore because Hussein is gone, after finding out that the dreaded 'mobile labs' were weather balloon platforms sold to Iraq by the British, George W. Bush and his people suddenly have a few things to answer for.

  You may recall this instance where a bombastic claim was made by Bush. During his constitutionally-mandated State of the Union address on January 28, 2003, Mr. Bush said, \"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.\" Nearly five months later, those 500 tons are nowhere to be found. A few seconds with a calculator can help us understand exactly what this means.

  500 tons of gas equals one million pounds. After UNSCOM, after UNMOVIC, after the war, after the US Army inspectors, after all the satellite surveillance, it is difficult in the extreme to imagine how one million pounds of anything could refuse to be located. Bear in mind, also, that this one million pounds is but a part of the Iraqi weapons arsenal described by Bush and his administration.

  Maybe the dog ate it. Or maybe it was never there to begin with, having been destroyed years ago by the first UN inspectors and by the Iraqis themselves. Maybe we went to war on a big lie, one that killed over 3,500 Iraqi civilians to date, one that killed some 170 American soldiers, one that has been costing us one American soldier's life per day thus far.

  If you listen to the Republicans on Capitol Hill, however, this is all just about \"politics.\" An in-depth investigation into how exactly we came to go to war on the WMD word of the Bush administration has been quashed by the Republican majority in the House of Representatives. Closed-door hearings by the Intelligence Committee are planned next week, but an open investigation has been shunted aside by Bush allies who control the gavel and the agenda. If there is nothing to hide, as the administration insists, if nothing was done wrong, one must wonder why they fear to have these questions asked in public.

  The questions are being asked anyway. Thirty five Representatives have signed House Resolution 260, which demands with specificity that the administration back up it's oft-repeated claims about the Iraqi weapons arsenal with evidence and fact. The guts of the Resolution are as follows:



  Resolved, That the President is requested to transmit to the House of Representatives not later than 4 days after the date of the adoption of this resolution documents or other materials in the President's possession that provides specific evidence for the following claims relating to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction:

    (1) On August 26, 2002, the Vice President in a speech stated: `Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction . . . What he wants is time, and more time to husband his resources to invest in his ongoing chemical and biological weapons program, and to gain possession of nuclear weapons.'

    (2) On September 12, 2002, in a speech to the United Nations General Assembly, the President stated: `Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.Iraq has made several attempts to buy high-strength aluminum tubes used to enrich uranium for a nuclear weapon.'

    (3) On October 7, 2002, in a speech in Cincinnati, Ohio, the President stated: `It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons.And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons.'

    (4) On January 7, 2003, the Secretary of Defense at a press briefing stated: `There is no doubt in my mind but that they currently have chemical and biological weapons.'

    (5) On January 9, 2003, in his daily press briefing, the White House spokesperson stated: 'We know for a fact that there are weapons there Iraq.'

    (6) On March 16, 2003, in an appearance on NBC's `Meet The Press', the Vice President stated: `We believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons. I think Mr. El Baradei frankly is wrong.'

    (7) On March 17, 2003, in an Address to the Nation, the President stated: `Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.'

    (8) On March 21, 2003, in his daily press briefing the White House spokesperson stated: `Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly.all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes.'

    (9) On March 24, 2003, in an appearance on CBS's `Face the Nation', the Secretary of Defense stated: `We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established.'

    (10) On March 30, 2003, in an appearance on ABC's `This Week', the Secretary of Defense stated: `We know where they are, they are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad.'

  On June 10, 2003, Representative Henry Waxman transmitted a letter to Condoleezza Rice demanding answers to a specific area of concern in this whole mess. His letter goes on to repeat, in scathing detail, the multifaceted claims made by the Bush administration regarding an Iraqi nuclear weapons program, and deconstructs those claims with a fine scalpel. \"What I want to know is the answer to a simple question: Why did the President use forged evidence in the State of the Union address?\" the letter concludes. \"This is a question that bears directly on the credibility of the United States, and it should be answered in a prompt and forthright manner, with full disclosure of all the relevant facts.\"

  It is this aspect, the nuclear claims, that has led the Bush administration to do what many observers expected them to do for a while now: They have blamed it all on the CIA. A report in the June 12, 2003 edition of the Washington Post cites an unnamed Bush administration official who claims that the CIA knew the evidence of Iraqi nuclear plans had been forged, but that CIA failed to give this information to Bush. The Post story states, \"A senior intelligence official said the CIA's action was the result of 'extremely sloppy' handling of a central piece of evidence in the administration's case against then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.\"

  Ergo, it wasn't the dog who ate the WMDs. It was the CIA. Unfortunately for Bush and his people, this blame game will not hold water.

  Early in October of 2002, Bush went before the American people and delivered yet another vat of nightmarish descriptions of what Saddam Hussein could do to America and the world with his vast array of weaponry. One week before this speech, however, the CIA had publicly stated that Hussein and Iraq were less of a threat than they had been for the last ten years.

  Columnist Robert Scheer reported on October 9, 2002, that, \"In its report, the CIA concludes that years of U.N. inspections combined with U.S. and British bombing of selected targets have left Iraq far weaker militarily than in the 1980s, when it was supported in its war against Iran by the United States. The CIA report also concedes that the agency has no evidence that Iraq possesses nuclear weapons.\"

  Certainly, if citizen Scheer was able to read and understand the CIA report on Iraq's nuclear capabilities, the President of the United States could easily do so as well.

  The scandal which laid Bill Clinton low centered around his lying under oath about sex. The scandal which took down Richard Nixon was certainly more profound, as he was accused of misusing the CIA and FBI to spy on political opponents while paying off people to lie about his actions. Lying under oath and misusing the intelligence community are both serious transgressions, to be sure. The matter of Iraq's weapons program, however, leaves both of these in deep shade.

  George W. Bush and his people used the fear and terror that still roils within the American people in the aftermath of September 11 to fob off an unnerving fiction about a faraway nation, and then used that fiction to justify a war that killed thousands and thousands of people.

  Latter-day justifications about 'liberating' the Iraqi people or demonstrating the strength of America to the world do not obscure this fact. They lied us into a war that, beyond the death toll, served as the greatest Al Qaeda recruiting drive in the history of the world. They lied about a war that cost billions of dollars which could have been better used to bolster America's amazingly substandard anti-terror defenses. They are attempting, in the aftermath, to misuse the CIA by blaming them for all of it.

  Blaming the CIA will not solve this problem, for the CIA is well able to defend itself. Quashing investigations in the House will not stem the questions that come now at a fast and furious clip.

  They lied. Period. Trust a teacher on this. We can spot liars who have not done their homework a mile away.

---------

  William Rivers Pitt william.pitt@mail.truthout.org<\/a> is a New York Times best-selling author of two books - \"War On Iraq\" available now from Context Books, and \"The Greatest Sedition is Silence,\" now available from Pluto Press at www.SilenceIsSedition.com. Scott Lowery contributed research to this report.

© Copyright 2003 by TruthOut.org\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"After several years teaching high school, I've heard all the excuses. I didn't get my homework done because my computer crashed, because my project partner didn't do their part, because I feel sick, because I left it on the bus, because I had a dance recital, because I was abducted by aliens and viciously probed.","numcomment":77,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2003\/06\/64734.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":64737,"heading":"I Just Love...","article":"...the latest excuse: "Just you wait we'll fid them " or "It's a big country you think he just left them laying around"?\r\n\r\nThis of course ignores the fact that the Bush Junta said over and over and over that they knew for a fact that he had them "we've got solid intelligence, and it was upon that basis that we went to War and killed a lot of People and have had over 100 of our own kids come back in Body Bags. The only solid intelligence is the Blockheads that believed Duhbya.\r\n\r\nBUSH LIED, CHILDREN DIED. It really is that simple.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 21:33:33","modified":"2003-06-14 21:33:33","fileurl":""},{"id":64749,"heading":"A really good and well documented...","article":"...article detailing the repeated lies: http:\/\/www.hermes-press.com\/wmd_gate.htm","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 22:03:01","modified":"2003-06-14 22:03:01","fileurl":""},{"id":64879,"heading":"I read ur article Dio","article":"I learned a lot. Thanks","author":"Omar","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 22:24:13","modified":"2003-06-15 22:24:13","fileurl":""},{"id":64881,"heading":"our man in DC","article":"What a guy!\r\nBuild a scafold, bring the rope.","author":"Director of Criminals","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 22:31:58","modified":"2003-06-15 22:31:58","fileurl":""},{"id":64911,"heading":"Well Dressed","article":"Nothing like a good Neck Tie to set off a Suit. Or is that send off a Suit?","author":"Haberdasher","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 02:07:15","modified":"2003-06-16 02:07:15","fileurl":""},{"id":64919,"heading":"More of the Liars Lies","article":"Pinocchio rules:- lies that are never questioned\r\n\r\n\r\nWhat a Tangled Web We Weave . . .\r\n\r\n. . . when first we practice to deceive!\r\n\r\nUpdated: 06\/14\/03\r\n\r\nSimply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. \r\n\r\nDick Cheney\r\nSpeech to VFW National Convention\r\nAugust 26, 2002\r\n\r\n\r\nRight now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\r\nSpeech to UN General Assembly\r\nSeptember 12, 2002 \r\n\r\n\r\nIf he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world. \r\n\r\nAri Fleischer\r\nPress Briefing\r\nDecember 2, 2002 \r\n\r\n\r\nWe know for a fact that there are weapons there. \r\n\r\nAri Fleischer\r\nPress Briefing\r\nJanuary 9, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nOur intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\r\nState of the Union Address\r\nJanuary 28, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nWe know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more. \r\n\r\nColin Powell\r\nRemarks to UN Security Council\r\nFebruary 5, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nWe have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\r\nRadio Address\r\nFebruary 8, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nIf Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since (UN Resolution) 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us . . . But the suggestion that we are doing this because we want to go to every country in the Middle East and rearrange all of its pieces is not correct. \r\n\r\nColin Powell\r\nInterview with Radio France International\r\nFebruary 28, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nSo has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? . . . I think our judgment has to be clearly not. \r\n\r\nColin Powell\r\nRemarks to UN Security Council\r\nMarch 7, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nIntelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\r\nAddress to the Nation\r\nMarch 17, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nWell, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes. \r\n\r\nAri Fleisher\r\nPress Briefing\r\nMarch 21, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nThere is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And . . . as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them. \r\n\r\nGen. Tommy Franks\r\nPress Conference\r\nMarch 22, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nI have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.\r\n\r\nDefense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman\r\nWashington Post, p. A27\r\nMarch 23, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nOne of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites. \r\n\r\nPentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark\r\nPress Briefing\r\nMarch 22, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nWe know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. \r\n\r\nDonald Rumsfeld\r\nABC Interview\r\nMarch 30, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nObviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find -- and there will be plenty. \r\n\r\nNeocon scholar Robert Kagan\r\nWashington Post op-ed\r\nApril 9, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nBut make no mistake -- as I said earlier -- we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found. \r\n\r\nAri Fleischer\r\nPress Briefing\r\nApril 10, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nWe are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\r\nNBC Interview\r\nApril 24, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nThere are people who in large measure have information that we need . . . so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country. \r\n\r\nDonald Rumsfeld\r\nPress Briefing\r\nApril 25, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nWe'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\r\nRemarks to Reporters\r\nMay 3, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nI'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now. \r\n\r\nColin Powell\r\nRemarks to Reporters\r\nMay 4, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nWe never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country. \r\n\r\nDonald Rumsfeld\r\nFox News Interview\r\nMay 4, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nI'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\r\nRemarks to Reporters\r\nMay 6, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nU.S. officials never expected that "we were going to open garages and find" weapons of mass destruction. \r\n\r\nCondoleeza Rice\r\nReuters Interview\r\nMay 12, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nI just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden. \r\n\r\nMaj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne\r\nPress Briefing\r\nMay 13, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nBefore the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found. \r\n\r\nGen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps\r\nInterview with Reporters\r\nMay 21, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nGiven time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction. \r\n\r\nGen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff\r\nNBC Today Show interview\r\nMay 26, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nThey may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer.\r\n\r\nDonald Rumsfeld\r\nRemarks to the Council on Foreign Relations\r\nMay 27, 2003 \r\n\r\n\r\nFor bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. \r\n\r\nPaul Wolfowitz\r\nVanity Fair interview\r\nMay 28, 2003 \r\n\r\nIt was a surprise to me then \u2014 it remains a surprise to me now \u2014 that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there. \r\n\r\nLt. Gen. James Conway, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force\r\nPress Interview\r\nMay 30, 2003 \r\n\r\nDo I think we're going to find something?\u00a0 Yeah, I kind of do, because I think there's a lot of information out there."\r\n\r\nMaj. Gen. Keith Dayton, Defense Intelligence Agency\r\nPress Conference\r\n\r\n","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 02:54:15","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:07","fileurl":""},{"id":65048,"heading":"I'm convinced.","article":"A high school teacher, with no access to the intelligence on the subject, who has never been to Iraq, says there are no WMD.\r\n\r\nGood enough for me.","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 08:16:33","modified":"2003-06-17 08:16:33","fileurl":""},{"id":65051,"heading":"oh really...","article":"and when exactly were you in Iraq last(if ever)?","author":"3200fps","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 09:23:55","modified":"2003-06-17 09:23:55","fileurl":""},{"id":65066,"heading":"Of course Duhbya,...","article":"...the DESERTER, has never been their either and he says there are. Davie takes that as better than the Gospel of Luke.\r\n\r\nMore like the Gospel of Puke.\r\n\r\nBUSH LIED, CHILDREN DIED. It really is that simple.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 12:04:28","modified":"2003-06-17 12:04:28","fileurl":""},{"id":65070,"heading":"Maybe the WMD's are...","article":"...in a suit at the cleaners being dry-cleaned. Yeah, that's it! And they won't be back in Iraq until, say, after the next election. \r\n\r\nBush, Cheney and the CIA\r\nthe biggest terrorists in the world today!","author":"Brian OConnor","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 12:17:45","modified":"2003-06-17 12:17:45","fileurl":""},{"id":65190,"heading":"I just love the title of...","article":"...the article heading this Thread. It so eloquently encapsulates the logic and reasoning of the apologists for evil.\r\n\r\nThe Dog Ate My WMDs.\r\n\r\nIt just sums up so nicely all the arguments made by the people out supporting the Junta.\r\n\r\nBUSH LIED, CHILDREND DIED. It really is that simple.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 04:55:39","modified":"2003-06-18 04:55:39","fileurl":""},{"id":65204,"heading":"3200fps","article":"Most everywhere BUT Iraq, but does that matter?\r\n\r\nI have the sense to know to listen to people whose JOB it is to know. You, on the other hand, will take as Gospel the word of anyone who agrees with your particular insanity.\r\n\r\nAre you military, or just a tough-guy wannabe?","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 08:13:04","modified":"2003-06-18 08:13:04","fileurl":""},{"id":65206,"heading":"Why does WMD matter?","article":"I don't see why the WMD matter much. Everyone agrees that Saddam Hussein was an evil ruler, right? Does anyone disagree? He got what he deserved.","author":"Cheryl","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 09:17:12","modified":"2003-06-18 09:17:12","fileurl":""},{"id":65271,"heading":"Cheryl","article":"May I lick your diseased snatch?","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 13:56:19","modified":"2003-06-18 13:56:19","fileurl":""},{"id":65547,"heading":"I am not convinced","article":"Mr. Daveman wrote:\r\n\r\n"A high school teacher, with no access to the intelligence on the subject, who has never been to Iraq, says there are no WMD. \r\n\r\nGood enough for me."\r\n\r\n\r\nGood point.\r\nIn spite of the total air and ground control the allmighty US forces enjoy over Iraq, thousands of pimple-faced "Army Specialists" who are on site and do have access to the intelligence on the subject still have not found any WMDs after all this time.\r\n\r\nPerhaps it is time to send in high school teachers who haven't been to Iraq yet. \r\nEven if they don't find any WMD either, they stand a chance to be more useful to the Iraqi people than the barely educated, chest-thumping, uniformed kiddies.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Ziegler","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 21:38:56","modified":"2003-06-19 21:38:56","fileurl":""},{"id":65557,"heading":"right and wrong","article":"People hate to admit that....maybe they were wrong.\r\nThey will go to great lengths to cover themselves so they will not admit defeat.\r\nThere never were any WMD in Iraq.\r\nThe right wingers are so embarassed now\r\nand they wont admit that they were wrong.\r\nbecause if they did that, then the next question would be.\r\nWhat was the war really for?","author":"3200fps","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 22:19:37","modified":"2003-06-19 22:19:37","fileurl":""},{"id":65558,"heading":"Zeigler","article":"Sure. Send 'em in. Send Mr. Pitt first.\r\n\r\nSomehow I get the feeling he'll beg off, claiming a dental appointment.\r\n\r\nYou see, that's the difference between your typical "complain yet offer no workable solutions" Leftie and the "barely educated, chest-thumping, uniformed kiddies" who volunteer to serve their country. The Lefty is all talk; the people in uniform swore to serve and backed up that oath with action.\r\n\r\nAnd no, I don't consider "protest marches" action.","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 22:20:41","modified":"2003-06-19 22:20:41","fileurl":""},{"id":65561,"heading":"3200fps","article":""There never were any WMD in Iraq."\r\n\r\nHw did you arrive at that remarkable conclusion? Because none have been found?\r\n\r\nAmazing! By that logic, in 1491, America didn't exist, because it hadn't been found yet. \r\n\r\nThe dark side of the moon didn't exist before the Russians photographed it.\r\n\r\nGravity didn't exist before Sir Isaac Newton discovered its principles.\r\n\r\nNeed I go on? Do you see how ridiculous your point is?\r\n\r\nI doubt it.","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 22:28:52","modified":"2003-06-19 22:28:52","fileurl":""},{"id":65562,"heading":"Ahh....","article":"But do you consider "protest marches"\r\na legal right given to all citizens of america?","author":"3200fps","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 22:30:02","modified":"2003-06-19 22:30:02","fileurl":""},{"id":65565,"heading":"well then","article":"If the police here were going to raid your house for lets say drugs...no, no say ILLEGAL WEAPONS.\r\nWouldnt they need probable cause of some sort of evidence?\r\nAnd then if they raided that house and killed a bunch of people, then found no illegal weapons...\r\nWhat do you think would happen next?\r\nLAWSUIT AND HEADS WOULD ROLL","author":"3200FeetPerSecond","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 22:34:21","modified":"2003-06-19 22:34:21","fileurl":""},{"id":65579,"heading":"3200fps","article":"Certainly, protest marches are a Constitutionally-protected form of expression.\r\n\r\nBut in case you haven't been paying attention the last 10 months of so, they haven't done much good, now have they?\r\n\r\nPlus, is the average peace marcher willing to die for his cause? Yeah...right. The average soldier however, is. \r\n\r\nAnd in your scenario, a lawsuit would be in order. However, that kind of thing doesn't apply to nation-states. And once again, you fail to notice that SADDAM BEING GONE IS A GOOD THING. You, like the rest of the Indymidiots, would rather crap on Bush than admit a good thing happened for the Iraqi people.\r\n\r\nAnd I will take your lack of comment on my extension of your "logic" that you agree your point is goofy.","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 22:54:44","modified":"2003-06-19 22:54:44","fileurl":""},{"id":65583,"heading":"please list for the viewing audience","article":"They havent done much good.\r\nIt would depend upon your definition of what good means.\r\nThe protesters may have felt good to express thier constitutional rights. It may have felt good to expose thier feelings to an unknowing passerby. It may have felt good to see a majority of the world nations standing together for peace.\r\nDying for the cause?\r\nI think that some soldiers I knew had this to say:\r\nI dont want to die for my country\r\nI'll let the other soldier die for his.\r\n\r\nWhy wouldnt our democratic ways that we are trying to promote in Iraq apply to how we engage in war with them?\r\nSeems a bit one sided\r\nbut then again \r\n-----you're the all knowing\r\n"logic master"\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"3200fps","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 23:05:21","modified":"2003-06-19 23:05:21","fileurl":""},{"id":65626,"heading":"This verbal puffery...","article":""There never were any WMD in Iraq. \r\nThe right wingers are so embarassed now \r\nand they wont admit that they were wrong. \r\nbecause if they did that, then the next question would be. \r\nWhat was the war really for?"\r\n\r\n\r\n....Does not suggest a rich inner life.\r\n\r\nThe war was to get rid of WMD. Obviously.\r\nThe question really is, what did Sadam do with them as the UN fought to give him PLENTY of time?\r\n\r\nLord knows who has them now. But they'll turn up thanks to folks like you.","author":"fresca","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 01:54:54","modified":"2003-06-20 01:54:54","fileurl":""},{"id":65639,"heading":"Dear Daveman","article":"The appeal of the uniform\u00a1K aaah\u00a1K you\u00a1\u00a6ll look like these heroes at the movies, exuding male potency, you\u00a1\u00a6ll get girls, maybe a chance to get even with life when you never had the guts to take charge of it\u00a1K.\r\n\r\nThe greatest military people I have met shared, among other, a few common features:\r\nThey were humble.\r\nThey were educated, inside or outside the military.\r\nThey never generalized about the civilian being this, the military being that.\r\nThey never bragged about their rank, branch, exploits. \r\n\r\nCan you measure up them? I know, you don\u00a1\u00a6t need to.\r\n\r\nYou are confusing "volunteer to serve your country" with "have no other prospects in life" or "I'll look so virile in one of these uniforms" or "I'll get to steer one of these speedboats like in the ad". Pretty appealing if you are a teen I must admit.\r\nYes Daveman, enrolling in the army is serving your country. But there is so many other ways, look around you if you please.\r\n\r\nBecoming politically active, caring and being aware of your community, voting, educating the next generation and promoting more for all and less for a few are just as patriotic but aren\u00a1\u00a6t as rewarding as signing a paper sheet at the recruiter\u00a1\u00a6s. For many people enrolling, this will become an extended adult day care; I have enough examples to back up this assertion.\r\n\r\nIt is not the military\u00a1\u00a6s fault that it caters today\u00a1\u00a6s teenager wishes, it has just adapted to it. I want it all, I want it now, I don\u00a1\u00a6t want to put the effort and patience but I want all the recognition. \r\nHave you seen their ads? If they were a corporation they would be continuously sued for fraudulent advertising (what percentage of the recruits actually gets to fly the helo, become a SEAL etc). They make it look like you can choose, that all is possible, which is technically correct; but the truth is the majority of recruits don\u00a1\u00a6t get even close to their initial project. You may argue they didn\u00a1\u00a6t work hard enough, I give you that. \r\n\r\nYour defensive reply indicates that you must be a member of the armed forces. Taking the risk to appear nosy, may I ask you what is your personal contribution to the delivery of the \u00a1\u00a7workable solutions\u00a1\u00a8 you mention? It is ok if you don\u00a1\u00a6t want to describe your activity for obvious reasons, what may be interesting here is to ask yourself what the real motives are besides jingoistic platitudes made out of \u00a1\u00a7protect\u00a1\u00a8, \u00a1\u00a7oath\u00a1\u00a8, \u00a1\u00a7action\u00a1\u00a8, \u00a1\u00a7flag\u00a1\u00a8.\r\n\r\nLast week while sitting in traffic, I ventured myself asking other drivers what \u00a1\u00a7support our troops\u00a1\u00a8 or \u00a1\u00a7the power of pride\u00a1\u00a8 meant to them. After all, these statements were in plain sight of the following driver, so anybody affixing such a bumper sticker must have a strong conviction to share its content with others. There isn\u00a1\u00a6t anything wrong with the display of patriotism or what is perceived as such; what was disturbing was that among the 8 people I politely asked, none of them was capable to muster an explanation. It ranged from canned \u00a1\u00a7preserve our freedom\u00a1\u00a8 to racist invectives or simple \u00a1\u00a7uh?\u00a1\u00a8. Maybe I just didn\u00a1\u00a6t get lucky.\r\nSo here we are, putting tough-talk stickers and being incapable of making sense of them. Kind of reduces them to same level as the other vulgar Nike \u00a1\u00a7Just do it\u00a1\u00a8 stickers. Sad. This shows how much people in America have been conditioned to link symbols to emotions in a Pavlovian way.\r\nWe are so convinced we are the toughest people on the planet. Our contrived efforts to show it to the rest of the world are just the hallmark of our insecurity about it. \r\n\r\nI understand the frustration of our young \u00a1\u00a7specialists\u00a1\u00a8 in Iraq not finding anything; first told they would fight to protect their homeland about impending WMDs, then being shot by the people they \u00a1\u00a7liberated\u00a1\u00a8 and finding Iraqi Miracle-Gro as the closest thing resembling WMDs. Sorry Daveman, so far these are the facts.\r\nJust wait until they come home, hopefully complete and alive, to discover that besides medals and a short-lived hero\u00a1\u00a6s welcome, the ones who return to civilian life won\u00a1\u00a6t get the special treatment they think they deserve. Again, I speak from experience. \r\n \r\nYou are right, the Left is often all talk and not enough action, as much as the people in uniform are all about action, emotion and not much real-life thinking. Armies are good at one thing, blowing to pieces people or things; don\u00a1\u00a6t ask them to rebuild a country, this is sissy work, leave it to the UN.\r\n\r\nI hope you feel you got special attention now that I have written this long reply just for you. I actually work for a living and don\u00a1\u00a6t enjoy the vast amounts of free time the army seems to grant you to write all these posts.\r\nPerhaps that\u00a1\u00a6s all you are doing in your free time... not healthy Daveman. Tell me, is there other websites where you are as prolific as Indymedia or do you simply enjoy the attention of getting people mad by writing antagonistic posts? \r\n\r\nI have broken it in several paragraphs so you can conveniently quote me and insert your pertinent remarks in between, one of your favorite activities it seems\u0192\u00ba.\r\n\r\n\r\nEnjoy your long evenings,\r\n\r\nZiegler\r\n\r\n","author":"Ziegler","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 02:24:33","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:11","fileurl":""},{"id":65775,"heading":"My latest alias","article":"I'm posting as "Nessie." Pretty clever, don't you think?\r\n\r\nwww.kobehq.com","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 14:34:39","modified":"2003-06-20 14:34:39","fileurl":""},{"id":65817,"heading":"Daveman speaking for Iraqis?","article":"Daveman: 'the rest of the Indymidiots, would rather crap on Bush than admit a good thing happened for the Iraqi people...'\r\n\r\nHow pompous of you to speak for others. What gives you the qualifications to say that what happened to the Iraqi people was good for them? Is lack of electricity good? How about the lack of running water? Oil fires are good for you? DU munitions littering the countryside? You are both arrogant and ignorant.","author":"Brian OConnor","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 15:30:18","modified":"2003-06-20 15:30:18","fileurl":""},{"id":65908,"heading":"KOBE","article":"We support the killing of Muslims and niggers. Please visit our website. \r\n","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 18:22:21","modified":"2003-06-20 18:22:21","fileurl":""},{"id":65943,"heading":"Ziegler","article":""They never generalized about the civilian being this, the military being that."\r\n\r\nYou mean just like you're doing?\r\n\r\n'"have no other prospects in life" or "I'll look so virile in one of these uniforms" or "I'll get to steer one of these speedboats like in the ad"'\r\n\r\nGeneralizing like that is okay for you but not me, huh? Typical Indymedia double standards.\r\n\r\n"For many people enrolling, this will become an extended adult day care; I have enough examples to back up this assertion."\r\n\r\nShow them. For every example you give, I can give a hundred that show military members as responsible adults performing a vital service to their coountry.\r\n\r\n"It is not the military\u00a1\u00a6s fault that it caters today\u00a1\u00a6s teenager wishes, it has just adapted to it. I want it all, I want it now, I don\u00a1\u00a6t want to put the effort and patience but I want all the recognition."\r\n\r\nNot in the Air Force; I've seen many kids who joined for the wrong reasons and who refused to adapt get the boot. Which branch of the service is kissing slackers' butts, anyway?\r\n\r\n"...what percentage of the recruits actually gets to fly the helo, become a SEAL etc..."\r\n\r\nNpot many, granted. For every sexy and glamourous job, there are a hundred unsexy and mundane jobs...but without the boring stuff getting done, the helo won't fly and the SEAL won't get his job done.\r\n\r\n"Your defensive reply indicates that you must be a member of the armed forces."\r\n\r\nYes, I am, and I get defensive when people who have no understanding of the military feel qualified to denigrate it. Me, I'm in one of the Civil Engineering career fields, one that gets deployed second only to Security Forces. In the 6 years I was in deployable units, I was in the Middle East 14 months. I did a year in Korea, leaving behind my wife and 4-month-old daughter. I did 15 months in Oman, but was blessed enough to have my family with me. I've left every shop I've been in better than when I arrived. I've saved the government a great deal of money with my work, and made it safer as well. My training and experience has left me qualified to hold jobs in generator installation, operations and maintenance, hazardous waste management, facility management, and quality assurance. I could easily earn twice as much as I'm making now on the outside. But I choose to stay in the service...I reenlisted for 5 1\/2 years just yesterday. My commitment to my country means a great deal to me. Am I proud of my service? You bet your bippy. Am I arrogant? I don't think so...but you are free to form your own opinion.\r\n\r\nAgain, you make generalizations: You asked 8 people what they thought a bumper sticker meant, and then extrapolate how the country feels from that sample. Your conclusions don't deserve comment.\r\n\r\n"...the ones who return to civilian life won\u00a1\u00a6t get the special treatment they think they deserve."\r\n\r\nTrust me...they'll be happy just not to be called baby-killers by a bunch of Leftist peace-marchers whose idea of service to the country is waving signs and blocking traffic. That's all the special treatment they'd like.\r\n\r\n"...as much as the people in uniform are all about action, emotion and not much real-life thinking."\r\n\r\nHaven't seen much action OR thinking from the Left. It's all emotion...based of no facts. \r\n\r\n"I hope you feel you got special attention now that I have written this long reply just for you. I actually work for a living and don\u00a1\u00a6t enjoy the vast amounts of free time the army seems to grant you to write all these posts."\r\n\r\nWell, thanks for the unwarranted condecension, but I really have no particular feelings about your long post. I certainly don't feel "special", as you seem to think I should. I work for a living, too, and visit this vast wasteland only off duty. \r\n\r\n"Perhaps that\u00a1\u00a6s all you are doing in your free time... not healthy Daveman. Tell me, is there other websites where you are as prolific as Indymedia or do you simply enjoy the attention of getting people mad by writing antagonistic posts?"\r\n\r\nNope. There's a real life out here, and it's a lot of fun. There are other people in here who do need to try it out, though. \r\n\r\nOh, by the way...keep your arrogant attitude to yourself. I see no reason it's warranted.","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 22:21:47","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:12","fileurl":""},{"id":65950,"heading":"Give me a fucking break","article":"[Not in the Air Force; I've seen many kids who joined for the wrong reasons and\r\n who refused to adapt get the boot. Which branch of the service is kissing\r\n slackers' butts, anyway?]\r\n\r\nWhat the hell are you doing all the time, airman daveman?","author":"Please","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 22:36:27","modified":"2003-06-20 22:36:27","fileurl":""},{"id":65951,"heading":"Please yourself","article":"You don't have a clue about what I do.\r\n\r\nOne more idiot spouting off about things he's unqualifed to.","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 22:42:06","modified":"2003-06-20 22:42:06","fileurl":""},{"id":65956,"heading":"OneEyedMan","article":"Mmmm, judging by the clues you left around here, there's not much your mentally qualified to do...\r\n\r\n...and I don't think many of us around here would bother to strain a braincell thinking about it too much, except to say that your are probably overpaid.\r\n\r\n...what does a Caveman make these days, anyway?","author":"KPC","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 22:55:39","modified":"2003-06-20 22:55:39","fileurl":""},{"id":65973,"heading":"Wow, KFC!","article":"You managed to get through a three-line post without talking about your penis or spouting obscenities!\r\n\r\nYou feeling okay, man?","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 23:34:31","modified":"2003-06-20 23:34:31","fileurl":""},{"id":65991,"heading":"yyaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnn","article":"WMD bitching is so may, can you not find something else to generate ire towards bush. No one really cares that were not finding wmd. Besides violating his 1991 agreement, saddam, activiley supported terrorism. Isn't that enough. Keep trotting out this tired wmd argument and spinning your wheels so hard you dig a whole for yourselves.","author":"sleepy","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 00:40:05","modified":"2003-06-21 00:40:05","fileurl":""},{"id":65994,"heading":"amen","article":""Besides violating his 1991 agreement,"\r\n\r\nFunny how the real shills around here always seem to dance around this gem.","author":"fresca","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 00:46:15","modified":"2003-06-21 00:46:15","fileurl":""},{"id":65996,"heading":" activiley supported terrorism","article":"Yes we have some operatives in all corners of the world.\r\nWe're called the CIA and all our client intelligence (newspeak for state sponsored terrorists) and our well funded PR connections. Many of us trained the creatures that left a river of blood and pain in central and south america.\r\nWanna know how to place a charge on a school bus gas tank to\r\nturn the interior into a searing inferno?\r\nUse of physical and psychological torture or social control through acts of unspeakable brutality to promote a feeling of impotent misery? Just got another raise and more personnel.","author":"International terrorist. Call me Mr. Howdy","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 00:58:00","modified":"2003-06-21 00:58:00","fileurl":""},{"id":66001,"heading":"Our job","article":"Here in the CIA, we are for hire when the corporations\r\nrun into trouble.\r\nWhat ever it takes.","author":" International terrorist. Call me Mr. Howdy","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 02:18:27","modified":"2003-06-21 02:18:27","fileurl":""},{"id":66002,"heading":"Haven't found Saddam either","article":"Haven't found Saddam either. Yet.\r\n\r\nWhat would be easier to find? Substances buried in the ground or one of the most recognizable people on the planet?\r\n\r\nBoth will be found. But both will most likely require help from witnesses.","author":"Ted","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 02:21:44","modified":"2003-06-21 02:21:44","fileurl":""},{"id":66005,"heading":"Well Hell","article":"-What would be easier to find? Substances buried in the ground or one of the most\r\n recognizable people on the planet? -\r\nwe already know where the oil is, for god's sake.","author":"Mell","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 02:48:29","modified":"2003-06-21 02:48:29","fileurl":""},{"id":66083,"heading":"To Please","article":"Anyone who believes the davie is an ordinary "Airman" also believes in:\r\n\r\nSanta Clause\r\n\r\nThe Tooth Fairy\r\n\r\nBush's Claims.\r\n\r\nIf he is even in the Air Farce he is attached to an Intel Office doing PsyOps\/Disinformation.\r\n\r\nLikely he is just another paid schlmiel from Langely etc....","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 19:27:26","modified":"2003-06-21 19:27:26","fileurl":""},{"id":66105,"heading":"Diogones","article":"HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!\r\n\r\nYou are really too much.\r\n\r\nI see what you're using instead of reasoning, though. If I'm paid by the government to spread disinformation, it means you're onto the "truth", and therefore it lends credence to your wacko theories.\r\n\r\nGet this through your conspiracy-theory-addled brain: No one here is paid by public money to shoot holes in your crap. \r\n\r\nWe consider it a public service.\r\n\r\nWho knows...one day you may come to your senses.\r\n\r\nI really doubt it, but hope springs eternal.\r\n\r\nNow say it with me: "There are no shills at IMC".\r\n\r\nThere! That was easy, wasn't it?","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 21:24:00","modified":"2003-06-21 21:24:00","fileurl":""},{"id":66108,"heading":"Uh, davie...","article":"...if you really were here to change mind or even open them up you would not be dealing in, disinformation, misinformation, innuendo, and ad hominem attacks.\r\n\r\nThe one thing a paid shill would never admit to is being a paid shill. It destroys their credibility. What chaps your hide I suspect is that people are wising up and are becoming aware of your tactics, how to spot shills like you, and then to disregard anything they have to say.\r\n\r\nWhile it is a matter of curiosity it is to some degree irrelevant who signs your paycheck. You are here because you are paid to be here or you are a psychotic.\r\n\r\nThere is no third option.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 21:37:38","modified":"2003-06-21 21:37:38","fileurl":""},{"id":66111,"heading":"3rd option- both of the above","article":"But unconvincing as there are now, what, five weasels on this board?\r\nOr one really manic burn-out with multiples in battle for control.\r\nIt's so mediocre. They are weak and transparent reduced to mimic, hate and other methods to disrupt.\r\nThey instruct, yeah right. Like a belligerent drunk will instruct you\r\non some subject they are ignorant about and believe that you suffer\r\nworse on this than they do. \r\n\r\nWe know why they are here. Best to step over their little traps even when\r\nthey so invitingly make asses out of them selves.\r\n\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 22:01:44","modified":"2003-06-21 22:01:44","fileurl":""},{"id":66128,"heading":"Priceless","article":""You are here because you are paid to be here or you are a psychotic."\r\n\r\nCan I please get an Amen!\r\n\r\n\r\nThe irony of this statement is AMAZING!!!!!!!\r\n\r\n\r\nI mean, my God! This is just too much.\r\n\r\nSIMPLY LAUGHING OUT LOUD.","author":"fresca","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 23:36:46","modified":"2003-06-21 23:36:46","fileurl":""},{"id":66131,"heading":"Exactly Fresca!","article":"Maybe Dio and Sheepdog will explain to us why THEY are here.......","author":"Eric","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 23:41:22","modified":"2003-06-21 23:41:22","fileurl":""},{"id":66142,"heading":"why I'm here","article":"upon my overworked dieing love's mouth, I heard her say "get those bastards, Sheepdog"\r\nor was it " get those bastard sheepdogs..."(?) I'm not sure.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 00:04:10","modified":"2003-06-22 00:04:10","fileurl":""},{"id":66143,"heading":"hitin' the bottle again, eh sheepdip?","article":"Well, what the hell! It's Friday night!!!","author":"Eric","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 00:06:43","modified":"2003-06-22 00:06:43","fileurl":""},{"id":66146,"heading":"Sweeet Errric","article":"Nay, my son, but I will fire up a bong load in a few just for you.\r\nI","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 00:12:44","modified":"2003-06-22 00:12:44","fileurl":""},{"id":66147,"heading":"Visit me at home then","article":"Thats my IP\r\nso you can visit my computer in the wee hours of the\r\nnight\r\n\r\n\r\nHa H@hA\r\n\r\nhA HA H@\r\n\r\nH@ HA Ha\r\n\r\n","author":"Eric's IP is 68.212.64.23","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 00:22:37","modified":"2003-06-22 00:22:37","fileurl":""},{"id":66257,"heading":"Hee hee. Utterfailure thinks he's got my info!","article":"What's my IP right now, Enrique? It changes every time I get online!! I've never seen such excitement over such insignificant information!\r\n\r\nI'm flattered that you'd try, quite ineffectually I might add, to get my info, Enrique. Too bad I've already got yours, utterfailure. But if you want my address, just let me know. It can be arranged. I don't think I've got much to worry about, what with you being in Spain and all.","author":"Eric","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 21:14:49","modified":"2003-06-22 21:14:49","fileurl":""},{"id":66258,"heading":"little pee pee boys.","article":"Stop this at once! I shall tell your fathers if this persists> and they will\r\ntar both your butts. Take heed.","author":"Your mother's friend","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 21:22:59","modified":"2003-06-22 21:22:59","fileurl":""},{"id":66262,"heading":"Stick a sock in in, bitch.","article":"I've fucked all my mother's friends. And none of them were very good.","author":"Fascist Fred","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 21:25:16","modified":"2003-06-22 21:25:16","fileurl":""},{"id":66277,"heading":"pee pee boy.","article":"couldn't bring out the woman in them? That's because they were men","author":"You, the one with the potty mouth...","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 22:36:04","modified":"2003-06-22 22:36:04","fileurl":""},{"id":66282,"heading":"Originally I just came here...","article":"...to continue making life miserable for Bush Asskisser after I chased him off Portland Indymedia and found that there were a whole lot more shills here to beat up on. A wealth of imbeciles to use as instructional props.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 22:49:08","modified":"2003-06-22 22:49:08","fileurl":""},{"id":66294,"heading":"say say say","article":"What does it say about someone who has to pat their own selves on the back?\r\n\r\nWhat does it say about someone who must say out loud they think they are outdueling their opposition?\r\n","author":"michael & paul","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 23:28:26","modified":"2003-06-22 23:28:26","fileurl":""},{"id":66302,"heading":"Hard guys","article":"It took two of you to write that?\r\n\r\nWE GET HIGH. CHILDREN DIE.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 23:39:38","modified":"2003-06-22 23:39:38","fileurl":""},{"id":66308,"heading":"^","article":"non sequitur alert","author":"non sequitur","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 23:48:09","modified":"2003-06-22 23:48:09","fileurl":""},{"id":66310,"heading":"No brag, just fact.","article":"I did not write the above post.\r\n\r\nAs for dumb and dumber - the usual shill tactic - insult and innuendo.\r\n\r\nYawn.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 23:51:09","modified":"2003-06-22 23:51:09","fileurl":""},{"id":66313,"heading":"Just Fact","article":""What does it say about someone who has to pat their own selves on the back?"\r\n\r\nPeople who know they're good don't have to pat themselves on the back.\r\n\r\n"What does it say about someone who must say out loud they think they are outdueling their opposition?"\r\n\r\nIf they were outdueling their opposition, it would be obvious, they wouldn't feel the need to have to say it. \r\n\r\n","author":"jf","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 23:55:34","modified":"2003-06-22 23:55:34","fileurl":""},{"id":66315,"heading":"like, wow man","article":""What does it say about someone who has to pat their own selves on the back?\r\n\r\nWhat does it say about someone who must say out loud they think they are outdueling their opposition"\r\n\r\nthis one doesn't know about these weasels haveing to do this very \r\nself congratulatory dance in amonst their own circle jerk of ( did you \r\nnotice they seemed to all go on vacation at the same time?) hitler youth on their kamps...\r\nPlease, oh please get real.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 00:01:36","modified":"2003-06-23 00:01:36","fileurl":""},{"id":66319,"heading":"Really? People Take Summer Vacations?","article":""hitler youth on their kamps"\r\n\r\nNow, man, like going on vacation and taking a cruise or staying on a tropical island for a week is, like, hitler youth kamps, man.","author":"like, wow man","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 00:06:33","modified":"2003-06-23 00:06:33","fileurl":""},{"id":66363,"heading":"hey, I'm not finished","article":"Yes I know it's a personal question.\r\nStill is amusing that your fellowship had fun. Nice. With pay?","author":"But did you enjoy your circle jerk?!","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 02:08:47","modified":"2003-06-23 02:08:47","fileurl":""},{"id":66374,"heading":"Today I'm in Colombia","article":"Decided to drop in or a chat and see how the freedom fighters are doing.\r\nKeep the faith.\r\n\r\nOH and err-ic\r\n\r\nstill defending the constitution from behind a desk?\r\nHappy about your reenlistment promotion?\r\nStill Lying about being a SEAL.\r\njOkE.\r\nps\r\nyou need to repaint the fence outside of your house, it looks like shit.\r\nTell your wife she needs to lose a little weight.\r\nIf yOu OnLy KnEw\r\nHA h@ Ha\r\nha H@ hA\r\nhA h@ Ha\r\nSucKa!!!!!!\r\nbe in the US soon to check on a few things............","author":"Sy$teMF@iLuRe","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 07:04:06","modified":"2003-06-23 07:04:06","fileurl":""},{"id":66375,"heading":"OHH IMEAN DAVEGIRL","article":"Youll have to excuse me since your the \r\nSAME PERSON\r\nha H@ hA\r\nHA h@ Ha\r\nH@ ha HA\r\nps\r\nlose the glasses they make you look gay.\r\n","author":"systemfailure","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 07:07:38","modified":"2003-06-23 07:07:38","fileurl":""},{"id":66380,"heading":"sissiefailure","article":"Like I told Paul King, I understand why you think everyone who disagrees with you is the same person. Less frightening that way.\r\n\r\n"lose the glasses they make you look gay."\r\n\r\nI'm glad you find them attractive, but really, I'm hetero. ","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 08:46:01","modified":"2003-06-23 08:46:01","fileurl":""},{"id":66381,"heading":"i said","article":"they make you LOOK gay\r\nnot that you ARE gay\r\neric","author":"Sy$teMF@iLuRe","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 08:50:32","modified":"2003-06-23 08:50:32","fileurl":""},{"id":66384,"heading":"I stand corrected.","article":"And I'm not Eric.\r\n\r\nStupid.\r\n\r\nBut I guess you still find me attractive, huh? You didn't deny it.","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:07:50","modified":"2003-06-23 09:07:50","fileurl":""},{"id":66389,"heading":"i know you","article":"maybe i was in that car driving slow past your house, or maybe i was that guy next to you in the grocery store, or maybe i was that guy sitting in the corner of the bar watching you.\r\nI know that you are daveman=eric=simple simon.\r\nMy investigation of you is complete.\r\nYou are a fraud and a liar.\r\n\r\n","author":"S.F.","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:18:33","modified":"2003-06-23 09:18:33","fileurl":""},{"id":66394,"heading":"sissie, you really are a faliure.","article":""...maybe i was in that car driving slow past your house..."\r\n\r\nNot my house. You wouldn't be allowed near it.\r\n\r\n"...maybe i was that guy sitting in the corner of the bar watching you."\r\n\r\nI don't go to bars. \r\n\r\n"daveman=eric=simple simon"\r\n\r\nIf you keep on believing it, it makes the fear go away, doesn't it?\r\n\r\nWhat are you afraid of?\r\n\r\n"My investigation of you is complete."\r\n\r\nWho did you interview? The voices in your head?\r\n\r\n"You are a fraud and a liar."\r\n\r\nI don't lie. I don't have any reason to. \r\n\r\nOnce again, sissie: What are you afraid of?","author":"daveman","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:26:25","modified":"2003-06-23 09:26:25","fileurl":""},{"id":66452,"heading":"A good, balanced article (if that appeals to you)","article":"George F. Will: Proof of WMDs is crucial\r\n\r\nBy George F. Will\r\nPublished 2:15 a.m. PDT Sunday, June 22, 2003\r\n\r\nWASHINGTON -- An antidote for grand imperial ambitions is a taste of imperial success. Swift victory in Iraq may have whetted the appetite of some Americans for further military exercises in regime change, but more than seven weeks after the president said, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended," combat operations, minor but lethal, continue. \r\nAnd overshadowing the military achievement is the failure -- so far -- to find, or explain the absence of, weapons of mass destruction that were the necessary and sufficient justification for pre-emptive war. The doctrine of pre-emption -- the core of the president's foreign policy -- is in jeopardy. \r\n\r\nTo govern is to choose, almost always on the basis of very imperfect information. But pre-emption presupposes the ability to know things -- to know about threats with a degree of certainty not requisite for decisions less momentous than those for waging war. \r\n\r\nSome say the war was justified even if WMDs are not found nor their destruction explained, because the world is "better off" without Saddam. Of course it is better off. But unless one is prepared to postulate a U.S. right, perhaps even a duty, to militarily dismantle any tyranny -- on to Burma? -- it is unacceptable to argue that Saddam's mass graves and torture chambers suffice as retrospective justifications for pre-emptive war. Americans seem sanguine about the failure -- so far -- to validate the war's premise about the threat posed by Saddam's WMDs, but a long-term failure would unravel much of this president's policy and rhetoric. \r\n\r\nSaddam, forced by the defection of his son-in-law, acknowledged in the mid-1990s his possession of chemical and biological WMDs. President Clinton, British, French and German intelligence agencies and even Hans Blix (who tells the British newspaper The Guardian, "We know for sure that they did exist") have expressed certainty about Iraq having WMDs at some point. \r\n\r\nA vast multinational conspiracy of bad faith, using fictitious WMDs as a pretext for war, is a wildly implausible explanation of the failure to find WMDs. What is plausible? James Woolsey, President Clinton's first CIA director, suggests the following: \r\n\r\nAs war approached, Saddam, a killer but not a fighter, was a parochial figure who had not left Iraq since 1979. He was surrounded by terrified sycophants and several Russian advisers who assured him that if Russia could not subdue Grozny in Chechnya, casualty-averse Americans would not conquer Baghdad. \r\n\r\nBased on his experience in the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam assumed there would be a ground offensive only after prolonged bombing. U.S. forces would conquer the desert, then stop. He could manufacture civilian casualties -- perhaps by blowing up some of his own hospitals -- to inflame world opinion, and count on his European friends to force a halt in the war, based on his promise to open Iraq to inspections, having destroyed his WMDs on the eve of war. \r\n\r\nOr shortly after the war began. Saddam, suggests Woolsey, was stunned when Gen. Tommy Franks began the air and ground offenses simultaneously and then "pulled a Patton," saying, in effect, never mind my flanks, I'll move so fast they can't find my flanks. Saddam, Woolsey suggests, may have moved fast to destroy the material that was the justification for a war he intended to survive, and may have survived. \r\n\r\nSuch destruction need not have been a huge task. In Britain, where political discourse is far fiercer than in America, Tony Blair is being roasted about the missing WMDs by, among many others, Robin Cook, formerly his foreign secretary. Cook says: "Such weapons require substantial industrial plant and a large work force. It is inconceivable that both could have been kept concealed for the two months we have been in occupation of Iraq." \r\n\r\nRubbish, says Woolsey: Chemical or biological weapons could have been manufactured with minor modifications of a fertilizer plant, or in a plant as small as a microbrewery attached to a restaurant. The 8,500 liters of anthrax that Saddam once admitted to having would weigh about 8.5 tons and would fill about half of a tractor-trailer truck. The 25,000 liters that Colin Powell cited in his U.N. speech could be concealed in two trucks -- or in much less space if the anthrax were powdered. \r\n\r\nFor the president, the missing WMDs are not a political problem. Frank Luntz, a Republican pollster, says Americans are happily focused on Iraqis liberated rather than WMDs not found, so we "feel good about ourselves." \r\n\r\nBut unless America's foreign policy is New Age therapy to make the public feel mellow, feeling good about the consequences of an action does not obviate the need to assess the original rationale for the action. Until WMDs are found, or their absence accounted for, there is urgent explaining to be done. \r\n","author":"George Will","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 17:56:50","modified":"2003-06-23 17:56:50","fileurl":""},{"id":66632,"heading":"Another Us soldier was killed on Sunday","article":"A G.I. a day keeps Texaco away.","author":"Ike","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 16:57:13","modified":"2003-06-24 16:57:13","fileurl":""},{"id":66723,"heading":"prophetic speech","article":"Its not Vietnam.....\r\nIts just another oil company scam....\r\nSalute the flag for uncle Sam....\r\nJust take your money and\r\nplace your bets-\r\nITs Afganistan\r\n\r\nSo fix bayonnets \r\nCheck grenades\r\nGot enough bullets\r\nGot enough bombs to\r\nWipe out this place.\r\nWe're the infantry\r\nand the cavalry\r\nwatching bodies burn and people die.\r\n(repeat top) \r\nend\r\n\r\nwritten by Keith Morris\r\nCircle Jerks\r\n(1983)\r\n","author":"3200fps","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 05:46:08","modified":"2003-06-25 05:46:08","fileurl":""},{"id":67027,"heading":"3200fps","article":""someone weaker than you should rape you"\r\n\r\nMichael Gira\r\n1985","author":"SWANS","parent_id":64734,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 03:01:25","modified":"2003-06-26 03:01:25","fileurl":""}]}