{"article":{"id":63688,"heading":"Hamas' Israeli Roots","author":"Cloak and Dagger","created":"2003-06-07 21:44:14","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:01","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:23:01","article":"
Israeli Roots of Hamas Are Being Exposed
by Dean Andromidas
Speaking in Jerusalem Dec. 20, U.S. Ambassador to Israel Daniel Kurtzer made the connection between the growth of the Islamic fundamentalist groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and Israel's promotion of the Islamic movement as a counter to the Palestinian nationalist movement. Kurtzer's comments come very close to EIR's own presentation of the evidence of Israel's instrumental role in establishing Hamas, and its ongoing control of that organization.
Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades—\"with the tacit support of Israel\"—was \"not totally unrelated\" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. Kurtzer explained that during the 1980s, when the Islamic movement began to flourish in the West Bank and Gaza, \"Israel perceived it to be better to have people turning toward religion rather than toward a nationalistic cause [the Palestinian Liberation Organization—ed.].\" It therefore did little to stop the flow of money to mosques and other religious institutions, rather than to schools.
According to the Dec. 21 Israeli daily Ha'aretz, Kurtzer made these extraordinary statements at a seminar on religion and politics sponsored by Oz V'Shalom-Netivot Shalom, a largely Anglo-American organization that promotes peace between Israelis and Palestinians. Rabbi Dr. Aharon Lichtenstein, the head of Har Etzion Yeshiva in Alon Shvut, who is an active advocate of a just regional peace, also spoke. Kurtzer said that as a result of the growth of Islam at the expense of education, there are now Palestinians who are \"determined terrorists that use religious beliefs in a perverted way to appeal to the masses.\"
Kurtzer said that cultural and religious interaction is potentially a way to \"build bridges.\" But instead, \"the perverted use of religion in the region is today becoming one of the great challenges for the years ahead.\" He said that there is no \"inherent component\" in Islam that advocates violence. But one of the five principles of Islam, jihad—resistance—\"in classic religious associations connotes religious belief and fervor, not violence.\" But extremists have distorted the meaning of jihad, so it now has a connotation of violence in the service of a religious purpose.
The Enemy of My Enemy Is My Friend
This statement is extraordinary given the fact that Kurtzer is a very senior diplomat, having held the post of Ambassador to Egypt just prior to going on to Tel Aviv. He is also an Orthodox Jew who is not shy of criticizing the extreme anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic views held by certain Arab circles. But Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon rarely grants the United States' highest representative in Israel an official audience.
The ambassador's comments are an acknowledgment of what any serious Middle East observers knows: Hamas has always been seen as a tool by which Israel could undermine the nationalist movement led by Palestinian Authority President and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Chairman Yasser Arafat. Similar statements by Arafat have been dismissed by Israel as \"cranky\" propaganda. In an interview with the Dec. 11 Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Arafat said, \"We are doing everything to stop the violence. But Hamas is a creature of Israel which at the time of Prime Minister [Yitzhak] Shamir [the late 1980s, when Hamas arose], gave them money and more than 700 institutions, among them schools, universities and mosques. Even [former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak] Rabin ended up admitting it, when I charged him with it, in the presence of [Egpytian President Hosni] Mubarak.\"
To the Italian daily L'Espresso, Arafat laid out the reasons for this support. \"Hamas was constituted with the support of Israel. The aim was to create an organization antagonistic to the PLO. They received financing and training from Israel. They have continued to benefit from permits and authorizations, while we have been limited, even to build a tomato factory. Rabin himself defined it as a fatal error. Some collaborationists of Israel are involved in these [terror] attacks,\" he said. \"We have proof, and we are placing it at the disposal of the Italian government.\"
On one level the support for Hamas is simply the application of the old saying, \"The enemy of my enemy is my friend.\" Indeed, in the minds of crude Israeli ultra-nationalists and fascists such as Sharon and his faction, this is indeed the case. Sharon is not interested in peace and therefore is not concerned that the violence and needless deaths of Israelis and Palestinians continue. In the Jan. 3 Ha'aretz, Yossi Sarid, chairman of the Meretz party, wrote, \"What does frighten Sharon ... is any prospect or sign of calm or moderation. If the situation were to calm down and stabilize, Sharon would have to return to the negotiating table and, in the wake of pressure from within and without, he would have to raise serious proposals for an agreement. This moment terrifies Sharon and he wants to put it off for as long as he possibly can.\" In contrast, Sarid said that Sharon understands \"that the terrorists and those who give them asylum are not the real enemies. Instead, the real enemies are the moderates.... You fight terrorists—a pretty simple operation—but you must talk with moderates, and this is a very tricky, if not dangerous, business.\"
More important for the survival of not only the Palestinian people, but especially Israel itself, is the dangerous role of the puppetmasters outside the region, who are manipulating both sides of this deadly game as part of their own demonic plans to spread the policy of a \"clash of civilizations.\" In this regard, Sharon, and his \"Greater Israel\" policy, is just as much a puppet as the Palestinian, strapped with explosives, who blows himself up at an Israeli bus station.
Two Decades of Undermining Arafat
Given the level of control that the Israeli intelligence services such as the Shin Bet and Mossad have been able to exert over the Palestinian territories during the last 35 years of Israeli occupation, the capability to manipulate militant and violent organizations, such as those associated with Hamas, should not surprise anyone familiar with intelligence and even routine police operations. This should be obvious, considering that Israel has routinely recruited thousands of collaborators and provocateurs among the tens of thousands of Palestinians who have passed through Israeli prisons in over 35 years of its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Most convincing is a comparison of the development of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and their antecedents, and the growing national and international legitimacy of the PLO and its undisputed leader, Arafat.
Hamas is an acronym for Harafat al-Muqawama Al-Islamiyya, or Islamic Resistance Movement. Its spiritual leader is Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, who, despite his fiery anti-Israeli sermons, has had an unusual relationship with the Israeli authorities. In 1973, Yassin established the Islamic Association—at a time when it was Israeli policy to promote what Ambassador Kurtzer refers to as the \"Islamic movement.\"
One might ask: Why should Israel promote an Islamic movement which later turns around and attacks it? How could the Israeli secret services be taken in by a Yassin? They weren't. The simple fact is, that the stated policy of Hamas is simply the flip side of Sharon's \"Greater Israel\" policy that refuses to seek a territorial compromise. The Hamas charter in 1988 stated, \"The land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations, and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it.... Peace initiatives, the so-called peace initiatives, are all contraray to the beliefs of Hamas, for renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion.\" In this rhetoric there is no room for a state of Israel—as there is none for a state of Palestine in Sharon's \"Greater Israel.\"
Israel's Hamas relations intensified after the Arab League, in 1974, decided to recognize Arafat and the PLO as the representatives of the Palestinian people—in effect, a government in exile. By 1979, top Yassin acquired an official permit from the Israeli government of Prime Minister Menachem Begin. This coincided with the signing of the Camp David peace treaty between Israel and Egypt. That treaty embodied detailed clauses calling for the establishment of a Palestinian Authority in the Occupied Territories, which would be the precursor for the Israeli withdrawal and the establishment of a Palestinian state. Gen. Ariel Sharon has been the chief proponent since this treaty was signed, of the policy of ensuring that these clauses would never be implemented. His chosen alternatives were war in Lebanon and the expansion of the Jewish settlements in the Occupied Territories. Sharon was helped by the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat by Anglo-American-controlled, Egypt-based Islamic terrorists.
`Policy of Strengthening Islamic Bodies'
Israeli toleration, if not initial sponsorship of the Islamic movement, has been acknowledged and well documented in Israeli sources. In 1997, the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies, at Tel Aviv University, published a study, \"Hamas: Radical Islam In A National Struggle,\" authored by Anat Kurz and Nahman Tal. It stated that the Islamic Association, \"the platform of which contained no nationalist clauses, obtained a permit from the Israeli Civil Administration in 1979 to conduct its activities. The permit was apparently consistent with the Israeli policy of strengthening Islamic bodies as a counterweight to Palestinian nationalist groups.\"
The rapid expansion of the Islamic Association led to clashes on the Palestinian University campuses in the Occupied Territories in the 1980s, betwen PLO-affiliated students and those associated with the Islamists. This expansion was aided by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, where Sharon hoped to solve the \"Palestinian problem\" by militarily crushing the PLO—which was then based in Lebanon—and by carrying out genocide against the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in impoverished refugee camps in Lebanon. Despite his orchestration of the massacre of thousands of Palestinians, including women and children, at the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps, Sharon failed to eliminate Arafat. Nonetheless, Arafat and the PLO were exiled to Tunisia, their influence severely weakened.
Sheikh Yassin, along with other Hamas leaders, was arrested in 1984, after it was discovered that the Islamic Association had maintained arms caches. But the organization was not banned. In fact, Yassin was soon released as part of an unprecedented prisoner exchange between Israel and Ahmed Jabril's PFLP-General Command. This deal, made with one of the most violent of all anti-PLO Palestinian groups at the time, was made in a period when the Mossad was busy assassinating the most moderate of PLO leaders.
Then, in 1988, the Islamic Association created Hamas as a direct alternative to the PLO, which had launched the first Intifada the year before. 1988 was also important because the PLO, at the 19th Conference of the Palestinian National Council in Algeria in 1988, accepted the United Nations Security Council resolution of 1947 calling for two states in Palestine. They also called for convening an international peace conference based on UN Resolutions 242 and 338, which established the land-for-peace concept. This was a de facto recognition of Israel by the PLO and Arafat. By the end of 1988, the Reagan Administration extended official recognition to the PLO as the official representative of the Palestinian people.
When Palestinian leader Abu Jihad began negotiating with Hamas, in an attempt to win its mass base over to the new policy, he was promptly assassinated by the Mossad.
Yassin, as all senior leaders of Hamas, is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the far-flung international Islamic organization with operations throughout the Islamic world. In the past, Anglo-American factions have not hesitated to manipulate the Brotherhood's various factions to destabilize secular Arab regimes. When Zbigniew Brzezinski launched the Afghan war against Russia in the 1980s, many of the Arab mujahideen fighters were recruited through Muslim Brotherhood-linked networks. The Muslim Brotherhood story fills volumes; the crucial point here is that Hamas, one of its branches, has traditionally stood in opposition to the secular nationalism of Arafat, the PLO, and its supporting governments.
Hamas has a peculiar organizational structure which contrasts sharply with that of the PLO. While within the West Bank and Gaza, Hamas exists as a broad political movement, its militant wings, the Izza-Din Al Qassam and Islamic Jihad, split-offs from the organization, are administered totally separately. These latter organizations, which are responsible for the attacks, are under the control of leaders who operate from abroad. Their offices are in London, where the group's magazine, Falatin Al Muslimah, is based; Jordan; Syria; and the United States, particularly in Virginia and Texas. Although Arafat has periodically tried to bring the popular base of Hamas into the Palestinian fold, the foreign-based military leadership has always opposed him.
This bifurcation dovetails with Sharon's strategy of launching brutal attacks against Hamas targets, in order to elicit the equally brutal response from Islamic Jihad and the Izza-Din Al Qassam. Thus Arafat, and diplomatic goals, are undermined, and the fires of civil war within the Occupied Territories are stoked.
The Anti-Oslo Terror Campaign Begins
The Oslo Accords marked the first glimmer of hope for a resolution of the Middle East conflict. And, the first suicide terrorist attack aimed at destroying it was not launched by Hamas or Islamic Jihad or another Palestinian faction. The first suicide attack was launched on Feb. 25, 1994, by Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein, when he entered the Mosque of Hebron and killed 50 Muslim worshippers as well as himself. Goldstein was a member of Kach, the terrorist organization founded by the late Meir Kahane, who also founded the Jewish Defense League in the 1960s in the United States. Kach, which is well connected to Sharon, is on the official U.S. State Department list of terrorist organizations.
The unprecedented massacre was calculated to set the stage for a suicide bombing campaign by Hamas and its split-off, Islamic Jihad, over the next year. In fact, it set into motion the \"cycle of violence\" that has yet to end. The Goldstein attack came at precisely the point when Israeli Prime Minister Rabin and Arafat began the formal implementation of the Oslo agreement which envisioned the establishment of a Palestinian state by 1998. The first Hamas-linked suicide attacks did not start until two months later, in April 1994, when Rabin and Arafat signed the agreement for the establishment of the Palestinian National Authority. The agreement called for the conduct of free elections throughout the territories—which would eventually establish the international legitimacy of the Arafat-led government.
But despite this terror campaign, which lasted for months under a massive crackdown by Arafat's security forces, the Rabin-Arafat alliance, although seriously weakened, was not broken. This alliance was finally broken with Rabin's assassination by an Israeli, on Nov. 5, 1995.
The next phase of attacks followed the \"targetted assassination\" of Hamas bomb-maker Yahya Ayyash on Jan. 5, 1996. Although said to be \"revenge attacks,\" they were in fact part of Hamas' campaign to get Benjamin Netanyahu elected Israeli prime minister. This was admitted by Ibraham Ghawshah, Hamas' official spokesman resident in Amman, Jordan. He said that it was part of their strategy to influence Israeli public opinon to bring down the entire Oslo process. The election of Netanyahu indeed fulfilled all their hopes, especially after he launched his own provocations, which not only brought about the pre-calculated Hamas response, but also brought the region several times to the brink of war.
This tit-for-tat campaign reached the height of insanity when Netanyahu, under the direction of Sharon, who was a member of his government at the time, launched a Mossad assassination attempt in 1997 against the Jordan-based Hamas official Khalid Mishaal. Not only did the attempt fail, but it led to Israel agreeing to release Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Yassin from an Israeli jail, where he had been under arrest since 1989. Yassin was allowed to return to Gaza to rally Hamas against the Oslo process in general, and Arafat in particular.
This pattern has continued to this very day. Netanyahu's downfall in 1999 led to the short-lived government of Ehud Barak, who despite much talking and negotiating, furthered the Oslo process not one iota. By the end of the Summer of 2000, the stage was set for Sharon's ultimate provocation, his Sept. 28 march on to the Islamic holy site Al-Haram Al-Sharif\/Temple Mount.
Since coming to power, Sharon has done everything to ensure the collapse of Arafat and the Palestinian Authority. If successful, it would either bring Hamas to power or lead to political chaos within the terrorities.
\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"Since coming to power, Sharon has done everything to ensure the collapse of Arafat and the Palestinian Authority. If successful, it would either bring Hamas to power or lead to political chaos within the terrorities.","numcomment":537,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2003\/06\/63688.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":108363,"heading":"Pah","article":"They are doing it for liberty How could you say such a thing? They wont be free even if the last jew falls because will still be oppressed by backwards and inadequate relgious laws that havent changed for the 21st century","author":"OGHR","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-04-21 20:15:49","modified":"2004-04-21 20:15:49","fileurl":""},{"id":108364,"heading":"can I ask","article":"How do you think Israeli would use its nuclear potential , considering how close together the israeli and palestinian settlements are?","author":"OGHR","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-04-21 20:20:31","modified":"2004-04-21 20:20:31","fileurl":""},{"id":63691,"heading":"Another good and related article.","article":"Fake Terror and the Road to War and Dictatorship: http:\/\/www.whatreallyhappened.com\/ARTICLE5\/index.html ","author":"Cloak and Dagger","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-07 21:46:19","modified":"2003-06-07 21:46:19","fileurl":""},{"id":63890,"heading":"It's all the JOOOOS' fault...","article":"...for dirtying the Arabs' air. \r\n\r\nThey should just march into the Med and save Hamas and the other Freedom Fighters the trouble.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 12:05:22","modified":"2003-06-09 12:05:22","fileurl":""},{"id":63911,"heading":""fresca" = "daveman" =...","article":"...assmole spamming the wire 24\/7 on behalf of his bushiite paymasters in sabotage of critical thinking - no counterarguments to speak of,only pathetic pseudosarcasm on their part.\r\n\r\nfuck them and fuck busharon.","author":"molehunter","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 14:00:45","modified":"2003-06-09 14:00:45","fileurl":""},{"id":63912,"heading":"Ahhh...","article":""...assmole spamming the wire 24\/7 on behalf of his bushiite paymasters in sabotage of critical thinking - no counterarguments to speak of,only pathetic pseudosarcasm on their part. \r\n\r\nfuck them and fuck busharon."\r\n\r\nAnd this, presumably, is the penultimate in philosophical discourse.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 14:43:22","modified":"2003-06-09 14:43:22","fileurl":""},{"id":63918,"heading":""daveman" has no arguments...","article":"...against the above posted article - ie against sharon as govt terrorist sponsoring spurring using hamas.\r\n\r\ntherefore it is quite right to say he spams the wire with baseless hogwash - and why? either he's crazy or he gets paid by the govt.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"jill","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 15:27:12","modified":"2003-06-09 15:27:12","fileurl":""},{"id":63920,"heading":"integration for andromidas","article":"also see:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.indymedia.org\/front.php3?article_id=325132&group=...","author":"researcher","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 15:32:44","modified":"2003-06-09 15:32:44","fileurl":""},{"id":63923,"heading":""jill" offers no proof...","article":"...for the above posted article.\r\n\r\nTherefore it is quite right to say she believes every wacko theory posted on imc - and why? either she's crazy or her tinfoil hat is on shiny side in. ","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 15:56:02","modified":"2003-06-09 15:56:02","fileurl":""},{"id":63925,"heading":"jill is not the author...","article":"...she agrees with the author because the author gives a hell of a lot of arguments.\r\n\r\nburden of proof in YOUR baseless accusations of crankiness against andromidas.\r\n\r\nyou really are a fuckin' moron.\r\n\r\ngo give bush another blowjob,moniker.","author":"davemanisa fool","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 16:08:44","modified":"2003-06-09 16:08:44","fileurl":""},{"id":63930,"heading":"Negatory, coward who...","article":"...won't pick a nickname.\r\n\r\nI don't have to give any reasons why I disagree; I'm not trying to convince anyone.\r\n\r\nAndromidas, and the people who agree with him, however, do have the burden of proof....which, as far as I've concerned has not been met.\r\n\r\nTake your cowardly obscenities elsewhere, yo-yo.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 16:26:18","modified":"2003-06-09 16:26:18","fileurl":""},{"id":63932,"heading":"daveman is wrong again","article":"there are many solid arguments in andromidas's essay - none in your crappy conments.\r\n\r\non yer hind legs,poodle - busharon under way...","author":"davemanisa fool","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 16:31:41","modified":"2003-06-09 16:31:41","fileurl":""},{"id":63937,"heading":"Ooohh...tough guy, huh?","article":"Yeah, that's the way to win converts to your cause!\r\n\r\nI repeat...the burden of proof is on you guys.\r\n\r\nAnd no matter how much you whine about it, I get to decide what convinces me...not you.\r\n\r\nOh, yeah...you're still a coward.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 16:43:46","modified":"2003-06-09 16:43:46","fileurl":""},{"id":63938,"heading":"you accuse you must prove","article":"you accuse andromidas,you must say why.\r\n\r\nor could it be that you can't?","author":"davemanisafool","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 16:46:16","modified":"2003-06-09 16:46:16","fileurl":""},{"id":63941,"heading":"Ridiculous","article":"Anti-Semitic rants like the one published above get a bit tiresome.\r\n\r\nDean Andromidas trots out the same tired rhetoric and tries to make it seem like a history lesson.\r\n\r\nThis line makes me laugh:\r\n\r\n"the growing national and international legitimacy of the PLO and its undisputed leader, Arafat. "\r\n\r\nThat shows just how far out of touch with reality Adromidas really is. Quite the opposite is true. There is a growing international recognition of the fact that Yassir Arafat is, was, and always will be a terrorist and not a statesman. \r\n\r\nThere can be no real peace in the middle eastern region until Arafat is finally and completely removed from a position of power and influence. \r\n\r\nMembers of Hamas, islamic Jihad, Al Queda, and other terrorists need to be hunted down and shot like the dogs that they are. They can never have a seat at the negotiation table. You simply don't negotiate with terrorists period.\r\n","author":"Bush Admirer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 17:44:17","modified":"2003-06-09 17:44:17","fileurl":""},{"id":63943,"heading":"Daveman, Fresca, et. al are all KOBE members.","article":"KOBE is alive and well on IndyMedia. They used to focus on Islamic forums, but now that they shut most of them down through harassment, they've turned to other targets. IndyMedia is now their target. Much information on KOBE has been published here and at other locations. Their physical location is known. It's been reported here. KOBE works out of Harbor City. Residents of LA could shut them down, but so far LA residents have proven themselves to be cowards.\r\n\r\nYes, KOBE is paid to do what it is doing.","author":"Stealth IP Worm","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-09 17:59:56","modified":"2003-06-09 17:59:56","fileurl":""},{"id":64015,"heading":""bushadmirer" the troll","article":"hey assmole=fresca=daveman:\r\n\r\neither you have arguments.or else shut the bloody fuck up.\r\n\r\nnow that you been exposed by the commentator here above me,you've grown suspiciously silent...\r\n\r\nthanx all troll chasers and exposers.","author":"fuckbushadmirer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 10:59:34","modified":"2003-06-10 10:59:34","fileurl":""},{"id":64022,"heading":"I like bukakke","article":"May I taste your semen?","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 12:22:18","modified":"2003-06-10 12:22:18","fileurl":""},{"id":64026,"heading":"Fresca, what color underwear are your wearing today?","article":"Let me guess, blue and white?","author":"Fred","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 12:46:03","modified":"2003-06-10 12:46:03","fileurl":""},{"id":64027,"heading":""fresca" the assmole","article":"unwelcome back,troll.\r\n\r\nreturn to sender (busharon)","author":"fresca sux","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 12:49:58","modified":"2003-06-10 12:49:58","fileurl":""},{"id":64039,"heading":"It's nice....","article":"...to command such attention and obsession.\r\n\r\nThank you.\r\n\r\nDon't let me down.\r\n\r\n9-11. The day the muslims hit us.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 14:03:05","modified":"2003-06-10 14:03:05","fileurl":""},{"id":64040,"heading":"fresca the asshole","article":"911:the day the traitor bush hit hit own people.\r\n\r\nback to the point:\r\nsharon is a yterrorist protecting hamas to perpetuate war and not give up the territories.\r\n\r\ndon't get emotional,"fresca"="bush Admirer"="daveman" etc","author":"fresca the asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 14:07:02","modified":"2003-06-10 14:07:02","fileurl":""},{"id":64043,"heading":"hehe..","article":""sharon is a yterrorist protecting hamas to perpetuate war and not give up the territories."\r\n\r\nThis one's a gem.\r\n\r\nAs much as I am for letting "palestine" become it's own state (and won't it be a beaut)..I can imaging that Sharon is not dying to give away two large chunks of Israel's land.\r\n\r\nBut oh well. Since Israel is the only side who ever makes overtures towards peace, I suspect they'll continue.\r\n\r\nIf only Sharon would stop protecting those wily Hamas savages.\r\n\r\nAnd, at the risk of being called racist, I formally will now refer to Hamas murderers as Towelheads.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 14:16:06","modified":"2003-06-10 14:16:06","fileurl":""},{"id":64060,"heading":"well then sharon is a towelhead","article":"...because he's the one who sponsored hamas since its inception as the article aptly shows.","author":"fresca mole sucker","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 16:12:00","modified":"2003-06-10 16:12:00","fileurl":""},{"id":64083,"heading":"Yeah I know","article":"Sharon also corked Sosa's bat and, turns out, was behind Laci Peterson's murder.\r\n\r\nYou got it!","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 18:31:12","modified":"2003-06-10 18:31:12","fileurl":""},{"id":64102,"heading":"Commentary","article":"Fresca: I beg you to reconsider your use of "towelhead", as it may indeed be perceived as racist.\r\n\r\nUse "splodeydope", instead...the only garment it refers to is the Dynamite Vest of Peace (tm). \r\n\r\nTo the coward: I don't feel any obligation to justify my opinions to cowards.\r\n\r\nStealth IP Worm: Ooooh...scary guy. Wow, you're an idiot. What is it around here, with all the self-styled hackers who can't hack their way out of a sauerkraut-soaked paper bag? Further, the arrogance: "We are SO right, the people who disagree with us must ONLY be one person, and he's a racist cyber-terrorist, too!" Here's a little hint that will get you through what you're using instead of a life: GET OVER YOURSELF. Do that, and I guarantee you'll be a lot happier.\r\n\r\n"now that you been exposed by the commentator here above me,you've grown suspiciously silent... "\r\n\r\nGeez, you yo-yo coward...you sound like you just craked the Walker spy ring. I repeat: get over yourself.\r\n\r\nBack to the (stupid) topic at hand: Sharon supports Hamas. That must be pretty confusing for you guys. On one hand, he's supporting your heroes, the Jew-killing Hamas, so he's a good guy. On the other hand, he's a Jew, so that automatically makes him a bad guy. What's a Jew-hating imc'er to do? ","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 21:40:54","modified":"2003-06-10 21:40:54","fileurl":""},{"id":64103,"heading":"fresca","article":"You left out Sharon's responsibility for the extinction of the dinosaurs and the sun eventually swelling and consuming the inner planets.\r\n\r\nDarn JOOOS!","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 21:43:16","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":64114,"heading":"Daveman","article":""Fresca: I beg you to reconsider your use of "towelhead", as it may indeed be perceived as racist. "\r\n\r\nYou'd be right if I was referring to human beings, but alas, creatures who would strap themselves with TNT and blow up in the middle of a crowd of innocent people, are NOT human.\r\n\r\nI would never refer to an Arab who was not involved with this or other heinous activities as a towelhead any more than I would refer to a Southern white who didn't hate blacks as a cracker.\r\n\r\nPoint well taken though.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 22:26:07","modified":"2003-06-10 22:26:07","fileurl":""},{"id":64118,"heading":"In that case...","article":"...we agree.\r\n\r\nIt's been real; I'm outta here. Hold down the fort 'til tomorrow, okay?","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-10 23:12:20","modified":"2003-06-10 23:12:20","fileurl":""},{"id":64143,"heading":"Absurdio ad Absurdum","article":"davie and frescaw between the 2 of them have produced ZERO in the way of valid arguments.\r\n\r\nTheir argumetation can be summarized as:\r\n\r\nTaunts\r\n\r\nSlurs\r\n\r\nFalse analogies\r\n\r\nCharicatures.\r\n\r\nBetween the two of them there is not one valid counter argument against what the article asserts.\r\n\r\nMakes you wonder don't it?","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-11 02:42:16","modified":"2003-06-11 02:42:16","fileurl":""},{"id":64147,"heading":"Not that I owe you anything...","article":"..but if you care to, read the THIRD post where I summarized my feelings on this ridiculous assertion and clearly pointed out where it's inane logic was.\r\n\r\nThese kind of stupid, ridiculous, feeble theories, which are so common around here are incredibly hard to respond to seriously.\r\n\r\nYour complaint that I or Daveman or whoever, make no valid argument against the original post is absurd. You say that as if the there was even a serious discussion going on. There wasn't. Simply because some asshole TYPED some nonsense about the mossad creating Hamas, of all the clearly nonsensical ideas, you think it's a critical debate all of a sudden.\r\n\r\nYou're an idiot. You really are an idiot. You have no ability to discern fantasy from plausiblity. Everything is fact if you read it from a source you've come to trust.\r\n\r\nAnyway, I trounced this nonsense days ago.\r\n\r\nBring on the next bit of foolishness.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-11 03:55:14","modified":"2003-06-11 03:55:14","fileurl":""},{"id":64167,"heading":"just thought you should know","article":"... a pompous ass about grammer and spelling, that it's, caricature. genius.","author":"because you have always been..","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-11 09:40:48","modified":"2003-06-11 09:40:48","fileurl":""},{"id":64169,"heading":"Correct spelling is not an indicator of intelligence.","article":"Many highly intelligent people are poor spellers. Einstein was famous not only as a genius, but as a poor speller. Many mildly retarded people spell very well. Some mildly retarded people have photographic memories. In many cases, there seems to be a trade off between surface accuracy and depth in understanding. This is why many normal people "take Rational Normal Person" as an example, would make good clerks and many intelligent people (e.g. Einstein) would make horrible clerks.\r\n\r\nIt is a sign of low intelligence to attach great significance to petty details such as spelling and transparent organization. Often higher levels of organization are not obvious. As such they appear disorganized to the unintelligent. This is why "Rational Normal Person" and fresca often claim to see muddledness when, in fact, they lack the intellectual equipment necessary to identify the more abstract level of organization present in a publication.\r\n\r\nMost of the brilliant people I have known have messy desks, messy cars, and messy homes. Most of the less intelligent people I have known are neat freaks. If you think about this, it makes sense. The unintelligent often need to physically organize their environment to make up for the structure that their mind lacks. Intelligent people often organize internally and are able to maintain mental references to the locations and details of physically disorganized items. In computer science the difference is analogous to that which is physically ordered (e.g. an array of data organized such that elements bearing some relationship are addressed sequentially) and logically ordered whereby references to such elements are organized while the elements themselves remain in their scattered locations. The former is more efficient for trivial operations (such as the petty logic of KOBE members) and the later is more efficient for complex operations (such as the deep thought processes of opponents to fascism).\r\n\r\nIf you were to take a KOBE member and deposit that KOBE into an unknown culture without prior training, the KOBE would flounder and panic (culture shock). If you were to deposit an anti-fascist into an unknown culture, chances are he or she would adapt quickly and figure things out. People of low intelligence prefer overt structure (law and rules). People of high intelligence prefer dynamic structure (principles and reason).\r\n\r\n","author":"Joe","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-11 11:12:33","modified":"2003-06-11 11:12:33","fileurl":""},{"id":64170,"heading":"Joe, joe joe","article":"Obviously you've copy and pasted the time-honored "Einstein was a bad speller so all bad-spellers are genius' " nonsense with some familiar names inserted to make it seem like you've come up with it on your own.\r\n\r\nNice try, but this particular gem betrays what a moron you are...\r\n\r\n"If you were to deposit an anti-fascist into an unknown culture,"\r\n\r\nDid you really write that? Are you actually so stupid that you thought that anyone that could be charcaterised as an "anti-fascist" (which, by the way, accounts for, oh about, all of the world's poulation) would have an innate leg up on solving the riddle of a foriegn culture over the likes of, gasp, someone like myself who was articulate and can spell?\r\n\r\nI suggest you clean your room and rethink this whole, "lexical disorganization = high intelligence" theory of yours. After all, this IS a forum for expression limited to ONLY the written word. Any "genius" hiding under bad grammar and spelling will not be exposed.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-11 11:39:44","modified":"2003-06-11 11:39:44","fileurl":""},{"id":64222,"heading":"fresca","article":"I like bukakke\r\nby fresca \u2022 Monday June 09, 2003 08:22 AM\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nMay I taste your semen?\r\n\r\nfresca, you are a sicko. Please take your sexual perversions elsewhere.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-11 15:22:06","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:04","fileurl":""},{"id":64291,"heading":"The original post...","article":"...is just more Jew-hating.\r\n\r\nThe author and those who agree with him are so unwilling to lay the blame for Palestinian extremists on the poor misunderstood murderous trash they feel the need to make up drivel blaming THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT IN THE REGION...who, not uncoincidentally, happen to be Jewish, for the most part.\r\n\r\nRepeat after me: democratic government, good; homicide bombers, bad.\r\n\r\nNow, you may all start whining about how you don't hate Jews, it's the occupation, they started it, Jewish agression, too poor to wage a real war, Mossad evil, Zionazis, blah blah, and similar trash that doesn't conceal your Jew-hatred but highlights it.\r\n\r\nDeny it all you want. You're lying.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 00:06:56","modified":"2003-06-12 00:06:56","fileurl":""},{"id":64318,"heading":"So of course the poor beleagered...","article":"...Israeli's are in such imminent danger that they have uproot insanely aggressive Orange Groves and Olive Groves.\r\n\r\nThe Motto of the Mossad: "By Way of Deception Thou Shalt Do War".","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 01:54:35","modified":"2003-06-12 01:54:35","fileurl":""},{"id":64330,"heading":"Oh, this is rich...","article":"Daveman, Fresca, et. al are all KOBE members.\r\nby Stealth IP Worm \u2022 Sunday June 08, 2003 01:59 PM\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nKOBE is alive and well on IndyMedia. They used to focus on Islamic forums, but now that they shut most of them down through harassment, they've turned to other targets. IndyMedia is now their target. Much information on KOBE has been published here and at other locations. Their physical location is known. It's been reported here. KOBE works out of Harbor City. Residents of LA could shut them down, but so far LA residents have proven themselves to be cowards. \r\n\r\nYes, KOBE is paid to do what it is doing.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nWRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.\r\n\r\nI dont give a shit if you burn Computers NLA down to the fucking ground. I dont have anything to do with them, and they dont have anything to do with me. I buy computer parts from them. I also buy cigarettes from 7-11, and I drive a Mercedes. I am fond of Haagen Dazs, and I like to eat at Rocky Cola on Pacific Coast Highway occasionally. I suggest that you organize a protest against all those entities as soon as possible. HOP TO IT!\r\n\r\nAlso, you ARE the laughing stock of Indymedia, and your foolish delusions dont fly here in California. So I am fresca, Diogenes, Daveman, Sheepdog, and whomever else you said? Have you made this brilliant deduction as a result of the 10 milligram increase in your Paxil prescription? \r\n\r\nYOU CANNOT SHUT KOBE HEADQUARTERS DOWN NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. Just forget it. You dont know who I am, where I am, and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do.\r\n\r\n","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"image\/gif","created":"2003-06-12 04:22:33","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:05","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/kobe1.gif","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/kobe1.gif"}},{"id":64339,"heading":"Annie, you are on the wrong thread!","article":"laughing....\r\n\r\nwhat a zoo!","author":"Just an helpful hint....","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 04:52:52","modified":"2003-06-12 04:52:52","fileurl":""},{"id":64348,"heading":"fresca the assmole","article":"the article aptly provides numerous arguments for the israeli right protecting hamas' leaders,aided by us\/uk.\r\n\r\nso either you got counterarguments or else shut the fuck up,motherfucking cia mole.","author":"fresca is an asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 16:13:09","modified":"2003-06-12 16:13:09","fileurl":""},{"id":64350,"heading":""daveman"="fresca"=troll...","article":"...payed by the govt to spam critical thinking on indy 24\/7 with his senseless drivel.","author":"fresca is an asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 16:15:49","modified":"2003-06-12 16:15:49","fileurl":""},{"id":64361,"heading":"Spam","article":"\nthis is an old one, probably the oldest one. \ntwo posters getting into a fight totally off the thread. \nDid HAMAS SERVE AS ANOTHER TOOL OF THE CRIMINAL CABAL? \n","author":"observer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 17:20:47","modified":"2003-06-12 17:20:47","fileurl":""},{"id":64384,"heading":"Then perhaps...","article":"...you'd care to explain these incidents:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.haaretzdaily.com\/hasen\/spages\/302577.html\r\n"Israel Defense Forces sources\r\nsaid that the missiles were\r\nfired at a terrorist cell that\r\n \r\nwas about to launch mortar shells at the nearby\r\nNetzarim settlement. \r\n\r\nThe two dead were identified by sources in Hamas\r\nas members of the Islamic militant group's Iz a\r\nDin al-Kassam Brigades military wing."\r\n\r\nFirst the IDF fires at Rantisi, the Hamas second-in-command. Then they kill some more Hamas.\r\n\r\nHardly the way to treat valued employees, is it?","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 22:32:43","modified":"2003-06-12 22:32:43","fileurl":""},{"id":64389,"heading":"but daveman....","article":"It's the ultimate retirement program. Coming soon to a place near you.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 22:58:00","modified":"2003-06-12 22:58:00","fileurl":""},{"id":64404,"heading":"Y'know,","article":"...I just KNEW you guys would spin it that way.\r\n\r\nYou can't see the forest for the trees.\r\n\r\nAnd insist there ARE no trees.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-12 23:54:48","modified":"2003-06-12 23:54:48","fileurl":""},{"id":64448,"heading":"Just an observation.","article":"Notice how the Eagle in the KKKOBE Logo is Fucking the Flag.\r\n\r\nHow appropriate.\r\n\r\nAfter All KOBE is as American as NAZISM.\r\n\r\nAnd about as true to the ideals of the Revolution.","author":"Scarecrow","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-13 02:12:56","modified":"2003-06-13 02:12:56","fileurl":""},{"id":64490,"heading":""daveman" the assmole","article":"oh coincidence:\r\nthe rentisi-aimed missiles miss him \r\n first,2 warning missiles get fired near the car and precious time gets given to rantisi to flee nearly unhurt.\r\n\r\ninnocents die as usual+small fish as usual.\r\n\r\nusual sharon way to treat valuable emloyees.\r\n\r\nand yassin roams free.","author":"daveman is wrong","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-13 10:37:29","modified":"2003-06-13 10:37:29","fileurl":""},{"id":64492,"heading":"Hunting down and killing Hamas terrorists is the only way to go","article":"Hunting down and killing Hamas terrorists is the only way to go. \r\n\r\nThe only other options are:\r\n\r\n1\/ Leave them alone to do their killing as terrorizing as they please, or\r\n\r\n2\/ Negotiate with them. Negotiating with terrorists will get you nowhere (as we've seen from decades of attempted negotiations with Yasser Arafat).\r\n\r\nThe Israelis haven't done everything correctly (starting settlements was dumb) but going after Hamas terrorist leaders with helicopter gunships is the exact right thing to do. Hamas must be exterminated, period.","author":"Bush Admirer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-13 10:54:29","modified":"2003-06-13 10:54:29","fileurl":""},{"id":64498,"heading":"go tell sharon,bushadmirerror","article":"go tell sharon to target yassin and not let rantisi flee,asshole.\r\n\r\nafter aqaba had sharon not restarted the killings maybe things would be better now.","author":"bushadmirerror","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-13 12:00:43","modified":"2003-06-13 12:00:43","fileurl":""},{"id":64620,"heading":"Israel","article":"Israel is a country that retaliates against terrorist organizations that purposely kill innocent women and children.\r\n\r\nThe PLO is a government that supports terrorist organizations that purposely kill innocent women and children.\r\n\r\nThe Isrealis are the good guys here.","author":"Bush Admirer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 00:47:04","modified":"2003-06-14 00:47:04","fileurl":""},{"id":64653,"heading":"The "Good Guys" Speak","article":""We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"\r\n\r\n "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.\r\n\r\n "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.\r\n\r\n "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983. \r\n\r\nDavid Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. \r\n\r\n Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget." \r\n\r\n"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 04:46:04","modified":"2003-06-14 04:46:04","fileurl":""},{"id":64660,"heading":"Dio","article":"I bow to your Buddah nature.....","author":"systemfailure","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 07:21:19","modified":"2003-06-14 07:21:19","fileurl":""},{"id":64661,"heading":"The Dead only know one thing.....","article":"It is better to be alive.","author":"systemfailure","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 07:22:43","modified":"2003-06-14 07:22:43","fileurl":""},{"id":64683,"heading":"It's time","article":"There is becoming increasingly less room for discussion every day.\r\n \r\n\r\nThere is really only one truth to all of this.\r\n\r\nIf the "palestinians" lay down there arms there will be peace. If Israel lays down it's arms there will be no more Israel.\r\n\r\nThere is absolutely no evidence that the "palestinians", including the subhumans of hamas et.al, the leadership and even the general populace, want peace or are, at least, willing to do anything to accomplish it.\r\n\r\nThe terrorists remain unencumbered by leadership to commit genocide attack after genocide attack. It 's time for Israel to end this. There will be no peace until ALL of the racist and savge terrorists of "palestine" are annihilated. It is time for a cleansing. \r\n\r\nAny arguments apologizing for the "palestinians" and whining about their "oppression" and "occupation" simply don't wash. The de facto leaders and heros of "palestine"; hamas et.al. have designed all their actions to destroy peace. Why? Because they simply hate Jews and will not stop, if left unchecked, until Israel ceases to exist.\r\n\r\nOne can only hope that Israel and it's allies start seeing the animals of hamas, al aqusa brigade, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah as what they are. They are simply the enemy in a war and it's time to stop "talking" with them and simply kill them and their supporters wholesale.\r\n\r\nThis, by the way, has nothing to do with race. The people these murderers hurt the most are their own arab brothers and sisters who the knowingly keep trapped in a war. In fact, the most beautiful sight I could think of would be the picture of a small Israeli hand holding a small arab hand and together squeezing the trigger of a gun pressed against the temple of a hamas genocide bomber.\r\n\r\nIn no uncertain terms. It's time to stop talking and start killing.\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 12:21:13","modified":"2003-06-14 12:21:13","fileurl":""},{"id":64707,"heading":"That's right the solution...","article":"...to the Middle East is more killing, more bloodshed, more broken lives, more misery.\r\n\r\nSo goeth the JDL\/ADL\/JINSA\/AIPAC party lines.\r\n\r\nfrescaw's solution is the final one: Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, hate, kill some more, hate some more, kill again, hate again, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill!","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 14:58:32","modified":"2003-06-14 14:58:32","fileurl":""},{"id":64771,"heading":"And what ....","article":"..do you suggest we do with hams and murderous animals like them?\r\n\r\nI say kill them where they stand.\r\n\r\nPlease let us know your solution.\r\n\r\nYou are very quick to comdemn Israel for everything and to apologize for all actions of the "palestinians".\r\n\r\nTell us, Dio, what's your idea for peace.\r\n\r\nI hope you answer, but I'm not going to hold my breath.\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 23:20:28","modified":"2003-06-14 23:20:28","fileurl":""},{"id":64774,"heading":""Kill, hate, repeat ad infinitum"","article":"You screwed up, Dio.\r\n\r\nThat's the Hamas\/jihadist mantra.\r\n\r\nThe last line is:\r\n\r\n"...until there are no more Jews"","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 23:30:08","modified":"2003-06-14 23:30:08","fileurl":""},{"id":64776,"heading":"And the funny part, Dio...","article":"...despite all your support, all your professed love for the poor, downtrodden freedom fighters:\r\n\r\nThey'd like you either\r\n\r\n1. Converted to Islam.\r\n\r\n2. Enslaved.\r\n\r\n3. Dead.\r\n\r\nHow's that for gratitude, huh? Sheesh! Apologize for and support some people, and all it gets you is dead. Bogus.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 23:32:51","modified":"2003-06-14 23:32:51","fileurl":""},{"id":64778,"heading":"Opinions are like assholes","article":"What I wanna know is why is the cream of America found on this channel? There is so much that all of U people know.... Wow. \r\n\r\nWhy arent u people working for some government agencies or some charity group... or Disney cuz some of U are some really funny motherfuckers... \r\n\r\nFresca U fucking cow.. Walt Disney should have had ur imagination... If U wanna know answers to all ur questions go out and do some research. There is something known as reading or libraries. Maybe U have heard of them\r\n\r\nThis joke is for all of U experts on Islam ... ENJOY. \r\n\r\n\r\nThe Discussion\r\n\r\nA stranger is seated next to Little Johnny on the plane when the stranger turned to Little Johnny and said, "Let's talk. I've heard that flights will go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger. "\r\n\r\nLittle Johnny, who had just opened his book, closed it slowly and said to the stranger, "What would you like to discuss?" "Oh, I don't know," said the stranger. "How about Islam?" "Ok," said Little Johnny. "That could be an interesting topic. \r\n\r\nBut let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow and a deer all eat grass the same stuff. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you\r\nsuppose that is?"\r\n\r\n"Jeez," said the stranger, "I have no idea."\r\n\r\n "Well, then" said Little Johnny, "How is it that you feel qualified to discuss Islam when you don't know shit."\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 23:45:32","modified":"2003-06-14 23:45:32","fileurl":""},{"id":64785,"heading":"Just curious","article":"What knowledge of Islam is neccessary in order for me to observe that "palestinian" terrorists are bent on destroying all ALL of Israel. Is there some particular passage of the Koran that will make me understand why a group of people have repeatedly shown by their actions and their words to be only interested in the complete destruction of the state of Israel? Might you be able to explain a more oblique subtlety of your most peaceful religion that will illuminate why anyone should see hamas, et.al. and all those who support them as murderers who want anyhting BUT peace?\r\n\r\nWell?\r\n\r\nPlease Omar, shed some light.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 23:58:53","modified":"2003-06-14 23:58:53","fileurl":""},{"id":64786,"heading":"Oh, so that's how it is.","article":"You can read and research and still not know Islam, because you weren't "born" into it, huh?\r\n\r\nSeems you've had some unflattering things to say about other religions, though, Omar.\r\n\r\nBut how can that be?\r\n\r\nYou weren't born into them. So you can't intelligently discuss them.\r\n\r\nLadies and Gentlemen, it's Double Standards Days at IndyMedia!","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-14 23:59:08","modified":"2003-06-14 23:59:08","fileurl":""},{"id":64798,"heading":"You can always tell when frescaw is lying...","article":"...if it's typing it's lying.\r\n\r\nBoth you and davie misrepresent my position. This shows just how bankrupt your apologia for Israeli War Crimes is.\r\n\r\nfrescaw sez: "You are very quick to comdemn Israel for everything and to apologize for all actions of the "palestinians". "\r\n\r\nNotice the broad generality "everything" - if you want to offer a blanket slur and misrepresentation state in generalities.\r\n\r\nAs for apologizing for the actions of the Palestinians again this is a broad vacuous generality.\r\n\r\nI have made it clear in past Posts that I do not support attacks against civilian targets. In general I regard the attacks as counterproductive and just plain wrong - regardless of the provocation - and there has been plenty of that.\r\n\r\nAs for davie's commentary:\r\n"...despite all your support, all your professed love for the poor, downtrodden freedom fighters: \r\n\r\nThey'd like you either \r\n\r\n1. Converted to Islam. \r\n\r\n2. Enslaved. \r\n\r\n3. Dead. \r\n\r\nHow's that for gratitude, huh? Sheesh! Apologize for and support some people, and all it gets you is dead. Bogus."\r\n\r\nAgain the use of broad universal generalities. If you conditioned it with the word "some" it would be true as it stands now it is false.\r\n\r\nThe average Arab is like any other Human Being - they have needs, wants, and desires. Basically I believe most of them are willing to live in Peace. You do not however, win their support or assent by treating them as subhuman, stealing their land, destroying their homes and killing their children.\r\n\r\nIn any event we have gotten a long way from the original article which is that some of the problems now face by the Israeli's is blow back from their own double dealing. While I don't approve of the violence it is sadly poetic that the organization they created to undermine Arafat's PLO is now one of the more virulent strains of resistance.\r\n\r\n"As ye soweth so shall ye reap."","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 00:32:35","modified":"2003-06-15 00:32:35","fileurl":""},{"id":64800,"heading":"Enough of your blowhard whining about nothing","article":"Answer the damn question Dio, you whining blowhard.\r\n\r\nWhat is your solution for peace?\r\n\r\nAnd excuse me if "just plain wrong" didn't quite register as a condemnation of the terrorist monsters.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 00:36:14","modified":"2003-06-15 00:36:14","fileurl":""},{"id":64805,"heading":"I believe I hear...","article":"...a high pitched whine.\r\n\r\nAs always frescaw you accuse others of your own failings.\r\n\r\nThere is no short pithy answer to your question and you know it. That is, of course, why you asked it.\r\n\r\nA good start would be for Israel to stop stealing Palestinian Land, Killdozing their homes and Groves, and indiscriminately bombing without regard to who might be in the way.\r\n\r\nIsrael has the ability to cease it's provocations. Israel is in the position of power. That is why it is incumbent upon Israel to disestablish the Illegal Settlements for starters.\r\n\r\nHowever, actions speak louder than words. The actions of the Israeli Government do not indicate that it is really interested in any solution than the complete subjugation of the occupied Territories and expulsion of the original inhabitants. This is evidenced both in their writings and their actions. \r\n\r\nUnfortuanately their has been so much blood spilled on both sides, and injustices committed by both sides, that a cooling off period is needed. That is why it is essential to abandon the illegal settlements as a gesture of good faith. Treating the Palestinian People as People would be another requisite. Conversely the Suicide Bombings need to be stopped. However, recognizing that support for them is generated by Israel's own actions is necessary to get a handle on the problem.\r\n\r\nAs it stands now with all the blood and enmity that has been past it will take a minimum of a generation or more to heal. But it takes a willingness to stop the cycle of violence.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 01:03:34","modified":"2003-06-15 01:03:34","fileurl":""},{"id":64813,"heading":"i agree somewhat","article":""However, recognizing that support for them is generated by Israel's own actions is necessary to get a handle on the problem. "\r\n\r\nI've always said that the settlements must go. But realizing that Israel's actions are the result of genocide bombings is paramount.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 01:33:39","modified":"2003-06-15 01:33:39","fileurl":""},{"id":64815,"heading":"Misuse of terms to obfuscate...","article":"..."Genocide Bombings" my ass.\r\n\r\nFrom my World Book:\r\n\r\ngenocide, noun. \r\nthe systematic extermination of a cultural or racial group. \r\nEx. The theoretical basis for the practice of genocide existed in the corroding Nazi doctrine of race (V. H. Bernstein). \r\n\r\n(Mid 20th Century Coined from Greek genus "race" + CIDE.)\r\n\r\nAuschwitz was Genocide. Sacrifice Bombings are murder - or Guerilla Warfare.\r\n\r\nYour, I believe intentional, misuse of the word is just another example of your dishonest argumentation.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 01:47:33","modified":"2003-06-15 01:47:33","fileurl":""},{"id":64818,"heading":"Bravo Diogenes","article":"I am sure that anybody who is neutral will find that your arguments are very good and may I add very logical. As for FresCOW girl just GIVE UP. Its obvious u have no interest in finding a balanced view. I wont even answer your answer with a quote from the Koran because quite frankly your having so much trouble understanding what is being said so far I dont want to confuse ur lame ass\r\n\r\n"A tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye"\r\n\r\nPlease explain why it is ok for the Israelis to murder Palestinian civilians and the Palestinians to not respond like wise. I would like to add that I find both the practice of suicide bombings and the use of the armed forces for the murder of civilians as abhorent but what is food for the goose is food for the gander.\r\n\r\nThe whole shitty argument that U have stems from u trying to state that the palestinians kill and the israelis retaliate. YOU FUCKING SLUT do u think the palestinians are mad, u think they dont wanna live; is it so fucking easy to kill oneself. They are fighting for the right of self determnation. Let me make it simpler for ur corn eating heipher ass they are doing it for "Life liberty & pursuit of happiness" something that they are not enjoying right now, which should be clear to any body with half a brain cell. \r\n\r\nI think Patrick Henry said it best\r\n" I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! ... "\r\n\r\nThere are three times as many Arabs killed in this last intifada as jews and it is the Arabs who are the terrorists. As if someone wearing a uniform has the right to go and kill innocent people and someone who uses gorilla tactics to respond does not. are u really this stupid? Im really starting to think u are and this isnt some act. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 02:24:35","modified":"2003-06-15 02:24:35","fileurl":""},{"id":64819,"heading":"nope","article":"Hamas has sated that they desire to "kill jews wherever they may be found".\r\n\r\nthat's genocide. The bombings are attempts at genocide. Guerrilla warfare they are certainly not.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 02:25:56","modified":"2003-06-15 02:25:56","fileurl":""},{"id":64828,"heading":"Bullshit","article":""They are fighting for the right of self determnation."\r\n\r\nBullshit. Hamas and others like them don't give a fuck about "self-determination". They simply hate Jews. No different from the Nazis.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 09:45:03","modified":"2003-06-15 09:45:03","fileurl":""},{"id":64829,"heading":"By the way "omar"","article":""There are three times as many Arabs killed in this last intifada as jews and it is the Arabs who are the terrorists. As if someone wearing a uniform has the right to go and kill innocent people and someone who uses gorilla tactics to respond does not. are u really this stupid? Im really starting to think u are and this isnt some act. "\r\n\r\nAgain with this tired old argument. The fact that "palestinian" terrorism has brought the obvious Israeli retaliation and led to many deaths hardly casts the ill light on Israel. Every time one of your heros blows itself up in it's noble effort for "self-determination" it is responsible for whatever retaliation is meted out. Simply put.\r\n\r\nIf the "palestinians" lay down their aems there will be peace.\r\nIf Israel lays down it's arms there will be no Israel.\r\n\r\nYou know this is true you dolt.\r\n\r\nBut then I understand where you're coming from.\r\n\r\nYou. like all of your "peace-loving" Islamic brothers are willing to fight Jews to the last palestinian.\r\n\r\nOh Omar, it's great fun to watch you squirm and apologize for the subhumans in your camp.\r\n\r\nCarry on, zookeeper.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 09:57:59","modified":"2003-06-15 09:57:59","fileurl":""},{"id":64835,"heading":"anyone notice","article":"not only how bitter and hateful fresca is but the peculiar fashion in \r\nwhich it can't seem to get the idea or rant out in one post?\r\nOr the tendency to label anything that disparrages the resistance to\r\nthe brutal occupation of the IDF as againt jews?\r\n We fairly well know from whence fresca recieves its\r\npaycheck. \r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 11:56:59","modified":"2003-06-15 11:56:59","fileurl":""},{"id":64838,"heading":"Frescow u crack whore","article":"you really crack me up... :D I will get back to u an answer soon enough but just to ask u waht the fuck do u mean by if Israel puts down its arms there will be no israel. U think Israel will ever give up its arsenal of 200 nuclear war heads. There are no ifs and buts in life BIAAAATCH!!! if auntie had balls she would have been an uncle. Dont fool yourself and dont give such a stupid agrument. Israel should give back the territories that it stole during the wars and stop settlements on occupied land and should give palestinians the right for self determination. Otherwise there will never be peace in Israel. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 12:13:43","modified":"2003-06-15 12:13:43","fileurl":""},{"id":64839,"heading":"bushadmirer is an asshole","article":"israel under sharon does not crack down on hamas because it never targets ie protects yassin,an israeli creature.\r\n\r\nand lets rantisi flee.\r\n\r\nin sabotage of the peace process.","author":"bushadmirer is an asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 12:19:17","modified":"2003-06-15 12:19:17","fileurl":""},{"id":64842,"heading":"fresca is an idiot","article":"it is the israeli govt of sharon who's butchering jews by constantly proyecting and sponsoring hamas leader yassin. sharon is the worst traitor of jews.","author":"fresca is an idiot","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 13:01:54","modified":"2003-06-15 13:01:54","fileurl":""},{"id":64843,"heading":"cloak and dagger will you please...","article":"give us the original link\/source of the andromidas article?\r\n\r\nthanx","author":"cloak and dagger will you please","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 13:09:14","modified":"2003-06-15 13:09:14","fileurl":""},{"id":64886,"heading":"Omar","article":"I have to believe that you are a put on. Even the most staunch believer in the gutter philosophy of extreme Islam couldn't believe have of the nonsense you jabber on about. Either that or you simply are a very young idiot. Either way your views are irrelevant as they are one fantasy after the next.\r\n\r\nIsrael stole no land during any war. Arab racists lost it. \r\nIsrael should and does retaliate after every genocide bombing. What part don't you understand?\r\n\r\nYou're rooting for the wrong team there abdul.\r\n\r\nYou are very funny though so keep it up.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 23:44:32","modified":"2003-06-15 23:44:32","fileurl":""},{"id":64888,"heading":"don't forget","article":"this unsupported noise was brought to you by fresca, the jackel.","author":"mike L","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-15 23:55:52","modified":"2003-06-15 23:55:52","fileurl":""},{"id":64890,"heading":"By the way","article":""Israel should give back the territories that it stole during the wars and stop settlements on occupied land and should give palestinians the right for self determination."\r\n\r\nI've always said that the settlements should ALL be abolished and that Isarel should GIVE the territories in question to the "palestinians" as a show of faith. That said, no one can actually believe that that would lead to peace. Groups like Hmas don't give a fuck about these issues; they simply want to kill Jews and eliminate Israel.\r\n\r\nI'm all for letting the "palestinians" have there own state and let them sink or swim. However, ALL acts from Hamas et.al should be dealt with with an extremely heavy fist.\r\n\r\nThere, Now it seems we're in agreement.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 00:06:17","modified":"2003-06-16 00:06:17","fileurl":""},{"id":64913,"heading":"The instigators and participants...","article":"...should be dealt with by standard Law Enforcement - well armed Law enforcement.\r\n\r\nJust like you would deal with any other dangerous criminal.\r\n\r\nThey should be given a fair trial.\r\n\r\nAnd then hung.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 02:17:36","modified":"2003-06-16 02:17:36","fileurl":""},{"id":64917,"heading":"P.S. that includes...","article":"...armed "settlers" terrorizing their neighbors to drive them out or kill them.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 02:35:25","modified":"2003-06-16 02:35:25","fileurl":""},{"id":64936,"heading":"Agreed","article":""...armed "settlers" terrorizing their neighbors to drive them out or kill them."\r\n\r\nAgreed.\r\n\r\nNow I know we are constantly at each other's throat and rarely see eye to eye but, for the sake of this one question, please forget all that.\r\n\r\nDo you honestly think that groups like Hamas can be dealt with using purely law enforcement and a court system?\r\n\r\nI don't know. I have my doubts.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 09:42:55","modified":"2003-06-16 09:42:55","fileurl":""},{"id":64939,"heading":"You know the answer to that Fresca","article":"Dealing with Hamas in a legal\/court system is ridiculous.\r\n\r\nYou must hunt them down and shoot them. They're terrorists. Israel understands that. Dorky liberals do not.","author":"Bush Admirer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 10:47:47","modified":"2003-06-16 10:47:47","fileurl":""},{"id":64946,"heading":"Actually yes I do believe...","article":"...it can be handled largely with Standard Law Enforcement Procedures. It might require a Special Task Force on the model of Elito Ness's Untouchables, and some Special Ops People, but it could be done if the will existed.\r\n\r\nYou remove the head of the Snake and then it is a dead entity.\r\n\r\nHowever, as I have pointed out previously much of the support Hamas enjoys is the result of hamhanded and inhumane practices that are ongoing.\r\n\r\nYou don't win people's hearts and minds by crushing their spirit and stealing from them. This is not a problem which will be solved overnight. It would require a real desire to co-exist in peace well communicated. That is not occuring now. The most effective type of Counter-Insurgency is to remove popular support. You do that by PROVING that you do not mean evil by the people you are courting, and then making it safe to turn in the real criminals.\r\n\r\nThis is not an overnight solution, but it is a long term one which would work and would keep the problem in check.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 12:18:03","modified":"2003-06-16 12:18:03","fileurl":""},{"id":64951,"heading":"bushadmirer the asshole","article":"it is sharon who will not deal with hamas because he never targets yassin because he needs him like bush needs osama.","author":"bushadmirerthe asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 13:40:09","modified":"2003-06-16 13:40:09","fileurl":""},{"id":64955,"heading":"Geez","article":"Bush doesn't need Osama and Sharon doesn't need Yassin either.\r\n\r\nYou do need medication though.","author":"Bush Admirer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 14:39:21","modified":"2003-06-16 14:39:21","fileurl":""},{"id":64969,"heading":"religion","article":"I hope those guys wake up some morning and realize, "Wow. We worship the same god yet kill each other over slight details." Same goes for those Christians in this country and elsewhere who think all Jews or Muslims are going to hell (e.g., President "W").\r\n\r\nBest case scenario - everyone realizes religion for what it is...a social construction that can be useful for some, but is not important for others. Got ecumenicalism?","author":"Bertrand Russell","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 17:37:26","modified":"2003-06-16 17:37:26","fileurl":""},{"id":64973,"heading":"FresCOW","article":"Was it something I said? Ive never actually argued with a corn eating hieffer before so this is kinda fun. You can call me Abdul or Muhammad or any of the other beautiful names FRISK-M'-NUTS but to answer your question let me ask U another question?\r\n\r\n What came first? The chicken or the egg? How can U say any with certainity? its the same situation with this crises in Israel. To answer the question of who is at fault and from where this cycle started we need to see who made the first move. \r\n\r\nLets see now. People from Distant lands come to ur country and kick u out saying that their ancestors lived there a couple of thousands years ago so this is their land, they horde u into certain aeras, build their homes where ur homes used to be, carry out an active program of starving u of an economy, to keep u in a slavish state. You dont have freedom to move, freedom of speech, safety. Any fucking clown in a uniform can come to ur house search it without giving a reason, your women and children are raped, your religious places are desecrated by politicians looking for gaining popularity and you are treated as untouchables in your own backyard.\r\n\r\n I mean I Know your ancestors have already done this to Native Indians so you may not think anything worng with it but anybody who is looking for a better life will do anything to improve a very bad situation. But just for ur, and im sure very ugly, ass let me say once again I am against the taking of innocent life whether it is by terrorists or freedom fighters or armed forces. Your writing betrays you utter hatred for my religion and the very definite under dogs in this fight the palestinians. \r\n\r\nLet me ask u another question? Do U think George Washington was portrayed as a hero or a terrorist when he was fighting the war of independence. Im sure the media of the time would have portrayed him as a terrorist. The only people he would have been a hero to is the people for whose freedom he was fighting. It is the same thing with the Palestinians.\r\n\r\nSince u seem to refer to my religion a lot let me me know which religion u follow so that maybe I can take a pot shot or two at you HOLIER THAN THOU attitude. Once again let me repeat you can take an ass to the water but U cant make it drink and I refer to FresCOW in particular when I write that\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-16 18:19:25","modified":"2003-06-16 18:19:25","fileurl":""},{"id":65022,"heading":"Uh","article":""Lets see now. People from Distant lands come to ur country and kick u out saying that their ancestors lived there a couple of thousands years ago so this is their land, they horde u into certain aeras, build their homes where ur homes used to be, carry out an active program of starving u of an economy, to keep u in a slavish state. You dont have freedom to move, freedom of speech, safety. Any fucking clown in a uniform can come to ur house search it without giving a reason, your women and children are raped, your religious places are desecrated by politicians looking for gaining popularity and you are treated as untouchables in your own backyard. "\r\n\r\n\r\nNice try. Really. The rape fantasy was a nice touch as was the notion that no jews lived in the area to begin with and that those that came there didn't buy ALOT of land.\r\nFurthermore, leaving out the part where the ARABS came in and actually stole land was brilliant. \r\n\r\nAll in all a fine bit of fiction.\r\n\r\nI can't wait to hear your retelling of WW2.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 01:45:42","modified":"2003-06-17 01:45:42","fileurl":""},{"id":65027,"heading":"If we take this back far enough...","article":"...we can talk about whether the Caananites or the Hittites had a stronger claim.\r\n\r\nThe Jews were kicked out by the Romans. (Some of those Jews who had to head for cooler climes were my ancestors.) However, that was about 2000 years ago. The people who remained behind are the ancestors of the current Palestinians. They have as much right to claim the land upon which they were already living as anyone and a bit better than most.\r\n\r\nP.S. Had your morning Coffee yet frescaw? What time do you start 9 A.M.?","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 01:59:19","modified":"2003-06-17 01:59:19","fileurl":""},{"id":65028,"heading":"Not at all","article":""P.S. Had your morning Coffee yet frescaw? What time do you start 9 A.M.?"\r\n\r\nJust got home from work. 15 hours. Too many.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 02:04:34","modified":"2003-06-17 02:04:34","fileurl":""},{"id":65031,"heading":"Dio","article":""This is not an overnight solution, but it is a long term one which would work and would keep the problem in check."\r\n\r\nWell, as you've answered this question, and somewhat answered a question I've been asking for awhile now (what would be your peace plan?), I sincerely say "Thank You".\r\n\r\nI would back (as if I'd ever be asked) a chance at peace involving dismantling of ALL settlements, a heavy handed legal effort at dealing with the terrorists and some sort of territory for a Palestinian state. The only reason I hesitate on the issue of the land is because I question what is the BEST land scenario. It seems that creating a Palestinian that is bisected into two distinct areas will not start a fledging state out on the right foot.\r\n\r\nSo, what do you support the typical two stae solution involving the West Bank and Gaza and part of Jerusalem as Palestine or some other idea?\r\nPlease tell me.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 02:17:54","modified":"2003-06-17 02:17:54","fileurl":""},{"id":65056,"heading":"whats fair is fair...","article":"support armed enforcement against Israel for thier violations of UN security council resolutions, just like they did in Iraq.","author":"3200fps","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 09:35:49","modified":"2003-06-17 09:35:49","fileurl":""},{"id":65059,"heading":"NOW THAT WE'RE TALKING FOR REAL...","article":"** To Dio: you're talking about what the Romans did to the Judean Jews (meaning Jews of Judea, as the WHOLE Land of Israel was named at the time) as if it was one single isolated act and as if all the Jews were removed. This is very far from the truth.\r\nThe TRUTH is the Romans had expelled (from 70 AD to 135 AD) some Jews and sold out many more to slavery in foreign lands, yet tens of thousands of Jews REMAINED behind. \r\nAt 135 AD the Romans renamed Judea "Palestine" in order to disassociate the land from the Jewish people in the minds of the world. \r\nNow, to say these Jews were "the ancestors of the current Palestinians" is bulls**t.\r\nWhile it's true a few Jews were forcibly converted to Islam starting from the mid 7th century, their number is too small to matter. \r\nFurthermore, even most of the Arabs who settled starting from the 7th century in Palestine have been migrating to and from the land intermittently. As for the Arabs that were there under Ottoman rule - their ranks were very small.\r\nOnly the instant Jews began coming to the land en masse in 1882 and generating little by little economic prosperity did large numbers of Arabs from neighboring countries begin to flock to Palestine. THESE are the people now claiming to be a separate Palestinian nation and they definitely have LESS of a right to claim any of those lands as much as the Jews have. \r\nThe legal validity of the 1919 mandate with which Britain was entrusted, to grant the Jews a national home in both banks of the Jordan River has NEVER been superseded, notwithstanding the British betrayal of this mandate when they unilaterally gave away the east bank to the Hashemites. Back then there was not even as much as discussion about "Palestinian" nation forming; to the extent the Arabs in Palestine had national aspirations, they only wanted to be politically united with SYRIA as they had been defining themselves as "Southern Syrians". Also, the aftermath of Israel's 1948-1949 independence war witnessed the Jordanian kingdom conquering what is known today as the "West Bank" and illegally annexing it - until these territories were taken by Israel following Jordanian aggression during the 1967 Six Day War. In the 17 odd years during which Jordan occupied Judea & Samaria, a.k.a the "West Bank", and the Egyptians occupied the Gaza strip, the local Arab residents never demanded a Palestinian state. It was only when Israel became in charge that these people began launching a struggle under the banner of "Palestinian" nationality. \r\n\r\nI don't know which history books you've been reading, but the narrative in them is wrong, plain and simple.\r\n\r\nOh, some of the Jews you mentioned were MY ancestors. But I hope you realize our Jewishness has NO bearing on the issues at hand - a person must be committed to sticking to the truth regardless of his\/her religious affiliation.\r\n\r\n** To fresca: it's refreshing to read your healthy skepticism vis-a vis how exactly to carve out land to form an acceptably livable and peaceful Palestinian geographical entity. I'm afraid it cannot be done. The lesser of evils would be to establish a Palestinian state in Jordan. Heres why:\r\nI can't fathom what's so sacrosanct about the continuity of the Hashemite regime in Jordan. If there would be guarantees that the "Palestinians" be peaceful neighborsto Israel and won't discriminate against the non-Palestinian Jordanian population, I'd see no problem with the notion of the Hashemites being convinced by the Arab League to share power with the Palestinians in Jordan in order to make it a full fledged Palestinian country. Jordan is also a very big country, especially in comparison to ALL the territory on the west bank of the Jordan river. And if the Palestinians get rid of all the people "compromised by terror" who currently form their leadership, (Palestinian) Jordan could be made one day an economically prosperous country given all the aid from the EU and the US that would flow bountifully to prop them up. Remember, more than 3\/4 of the Jordanian populace are Palestinian as it is.\r\n\r\nAs for the Jewish settlements, I have a surprise for any serious observer who considers them illegal. ALL of them ARE legal (because of what I explained above), except several outposts. So I see no reason to dismantle them just to make some territories "Judenrein" (i.e. ethnically cleansed of Jews). Isn't it ironic that the Palestinians don't tolerate ANY presence of Jews in their midst yet are automatically trusted to live in their envisioned state in peace with their Israeli neighbors? Uprooting Jews from their homes in Judea, Samaria and Gaza (a.k.a the territories) is considered by most of the world a prerequisite for establishing peace, while many in the world overlook, and many others have forgotten that when Palestinians talk abut "occupied territories" they mean those "occupied" in 1948, not 1967. They've long been resorting to a tactic of telling the world they want the territories "occupied" in 1967, but still refer among themselves to the lands they lost in 1948. I believe what they tell each other in Arabic, not what they tell others in English.\r\n\r\nWatch this webpage for 900 tons of anti-Semitic garbage to rain down on me from the likes of Omar...you think I'm exaggerating?! Just take a peek at another webpage where a PRO-PALESTINIAN ANTI-ISRAELI JEW posted an article (evidently as some sort of moronic provocation) and immediately got called "a kike": http:\/\/jerusalem.indymedia.org\/news\/2002\/05\/42075.php (I Googled his name up and revealed his political leanings).","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 10:18:33","modified":"2003-06-17 10:18:33","fileurl":""},{"id":65060,"heading":"THE COMMENT BY 3200fps...","article":"is nonsense. \r\n(And if Israel was in violation of any security council resolutions, it was the Palestinians' fault.) \r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 11:09:05","modified":"2003-06-17 11:09:05","fileurl":""},{"id":65062,"heading":"bush admirer take your meds","article":"if sharon doesn't need yassin to sabotage the peace process you assmole still haven't explained why sharon doesn't target yassin for assassination.\r\n\r\nreply convincingly or shut the fuck up asshole.","author":" bush admirer take your meds","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 11:30:20","modified":"2003-06-17 11:30:20","fileurl":""},{"id":65065,"heading":"well, "jew boy" what about these lies","article":"UN Security Council Resolutions on Israel since 1948\r\nRes 101 (Nov 24, 53): Expressed 'strongest censure' of Israel for the first time because of its raid on Qibya.\r\nRes 106 (Mar 29, 55): Condemned Israel for Ghazzah raid.\r\nRes 111 (Jan 19, 56): Condemned Israel for raid on Syria that killed 56 people. \r\nRes 127 (Jan 22, 58): Recommended Israel to suspend its no-man's zone in Jerusalem.\r\nRes 162 (Apr 11, 61): Urged Israel to comply with UN decisions.\r\nRes 171 (Apr 9, 62): Determined 'flagrant violation' by Israel in its attack on Syria.\r\nRes 228 (Nov 25, 66): Censured Israel for its attack on Samu in Jordan. \r\nRes 237 (June 14, 67): Urged Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.\r\nRes 248 (Mar 24, 68): Condemned Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.\r\nRes 250 (Apr 27, 68): Called on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.\r\nRes 251 (May 2, 68): Deeply deplored Israel's military parade in Jerusalem and declared invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as its capital. \r\nRes 256 (Aug 16, 68): Condemned Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation'. \r\nRes 259 (Sep 27, 68): Deplored Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.\r\nRes 262 (Dec 31, 68): Condemned Israel's attack on Beirut airport destroying the entire fleet of Middle East Airlines.\r\nRes 265 (Apr 1, 69): Condemned Israel for air attacks on Salt in Jordan.\r\nRes 267 (July 3, 69): Censured Israel for administrative acts to change status of Jerusalem.\r\nRes 270 (Aug. 26, 69): Condemned Israel for air attack on villages in southern Lebanon.\r\nRes 271 (Sep 15, 69): Condemned Israel's failure to comply with UN resolutions on Jerusalem.\r\nRes 279 (May 12, 70): Demanded withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.\r\nRes 280 (May 19, 70): Condemned Israeli attacks against Lebanon.\r\nRes 285 (Sep 5, 70): Demanded immediate Israeli troop withdrawal from Lebanon.\r\nRes 298 (Sep 25, 71): Deplored Israel's change of status of Jerusalem.\r\nRes 313 (Aug 8, 72): Demanded Israel stop attacks against Lebanon. \r\nRes 316 (June 26, 72): Condemned Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon. \r\nRes 317 (July 21, 72): Deplored Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted from Lebanon.\r\nRes 332 (Apr 21, 73): Condemned Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.\r\nRes 337 (Aug 15, 73): Condemned Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty. \r\nRes 347 (Apr 24, 74): Condemned Israeli attacks on Lebanon.\r\nRes 425 (Mar 19, 78): Called on Israel to withdraw its forces unconditionally from Lebanon.\r\nRes 427 (May 3, 78): Called on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon. \r\nRes 444 (Jan 19, 79): Deplored Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peace forces.\r\nRes 446 (Mar 22, 79): Determined Israeli settlements as a 'serious obstruction' to peace, and called on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions. \r\nRes 450 (June 14, 79): Called on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.\r\nRes 452 (July 20, 79): Called on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.\r\nRes 465 (Mar 1, 80): Deplored Israel's settlements and asked all member States not to assist Israel's settlement programme.\r\nRes 467 (Apr 24, 80): Condemned Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.\r\nRes 468 (May 8, 80): Called on Israel to rescind illegal expulsion of two Palestinian Mayors and a Judge, and to facilitate their return.\r\nRes 469 (May 20, 80): Strongly deplored Israel's failure to observe the Council's order not to deport Palestinians.\r\nRes 471 (June 5, 80): Expressed deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.\r\nRes 476 (June 30, 80): Reiterated that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'.\r\nRes 478 (Aug 20, 80): 'Censured in the strongest terms' Israel for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'basic law'.\r\nRes 484 (Dec 19, 80): Declared it imperative Israel re-admit two Palestinian mayors.\r\nRes 487 (June 19, 81): Strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.\r\nRes 497 (Dec 17, 81): Decided Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demanded that Israel rescind its decision forthwith. \r\nRes 498 (Dec 18, 81): Called on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon. \r\nRes 501 (Feb 25, 82): Called on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.\r\nRes 508 (June 6, 82): Demanded Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and un-conditionally from Lebanon.\r\nRes 515 (July 29, 82): Demanded Israel lift its seige of Beirut and allow in food.\r\nRes 517 (Aug 4, 82): Censured Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demanded Isreal withdraw its forces from Lebanon.\r\nRes 518 (Aug 12, 82): Demanded Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon. \r\nRes 520 (Sep 17, 82): Condemned Israel's attack into West Beirut. \r\nRes 573 (Oct 4, 85): Condemned Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO Headquarters.\r\nRes 587 (Sep 23, 86): Took note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urged all parties to withdraw.\r\nRes 592 (Dec 8, 86): Strongly deplored the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.\r\nRes 605 (Dec 22, 87): Strongly deplored Israel's policies and practices denying human rights of Palestinians.\r\nRes 607 (Jan 5, 88): Called on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requested it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.\r\nRes 608 (Jan 14, 88): Deeply regreted that Israel had defied the UN and deported Palestinian civilians.\r\nRes 636 (July 6, 89): Deeply regreted the Israeli deportation of Palestinians. \r\nRes 641 (Aug 30, 89): Deplored Israel's continuous deportation of Palestinians. \r\nRes 672 (Oct 12, 90): Condemned Israel for violence against Palestinians at Jerusalem's Haram Al-Sharif.\r\nRes 673 (Oct 24, 90): Deplored Israel's refusal to cooperate with the UN. \r\nRes 681 (Dec 20, 90): Deplored Israel's resumption of deportation of Palestinians.\r\nRes 694 (May 24, 91): Deplored Israel's deportation of Palestinians and called on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.\r\nRes 726 (Jan 1, 92): 'Strongly condemned' Israel's decision to resume deportation of Palestinians from 'Palestinian territories... including Jerusalem.'\r\nRes 799 (Dec 19, 92): Deplored Israel's mass deportation of some 400 Palestinians and called for thir immediate return. \r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n\r\nand thats only to 1992.........","author":"3200fps","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 12:04:20","modified":"2003-06-17 12:04:20","fileurl":""},{"id":65071,"heading":"In answer to 3200fps","article":"Most of them, if not all, were orchestrated by the Soviet Union and\/or the Arab League so as to deny Israel its rights of military and diplomatic self defense at best, or to bring it to the brink of inihalation by Arab states and terrorists, at worst.\r\n\r\nDon't be surprised if the forseeable future witnesses a major overhaul of the UN by the US, as the former has been used lately to stick it to America; already back in the late 1950s\/early 1960's the US ambassador to the UN threatened to bolt it and form some institution in its stead. \r\n\r\nThe end of the Cold War saw a brief period during which the UN was more somewhat more balanced in its approach toward Israel (because of the demise of the Warsaw Pact), only to abandon this attempt at being balanced.\r\n\r\nSince its inception, Most of UN resolutions have nearly always discussed Israel and the "Palestinians". The Arabs have always excelled at hijacking the UN for their political befenit, because this organization rests on precarious foundations that constantly render it ripe for its hijacking by one political bloc or another; during most of its history that has been done by the Soviet bloc and the Arab league. The "non-aligned" bloc has always been manipulated by the Arabs.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 12:34:33","modified":"2003-06-17 12:34:33","fileurl":""},{"id":65076,"heading":"back to the point","article":"the point being: sharon and the israeli right created hamas to sabotage peace and the plo.\r\n\r\nand that's why sharon never targets yassin.\r\n\r\nto which bushadmirer the assmole still refuses to reply.","author":"sharon=hamas","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 13:08:37","modified":"2003-06-17 13:08:37","fileurl":""},{"id":65086,"heading":"last night was incredible","article":"I want the whole world to know (and you know who you are) that I have never been fucked so hard in the ass. You were incredible. I couldnt stop shouting "Palestine" with every thrust up my ass. I will never be the same again. Forget Israel. Viva le Palestine. ","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 15:25:49","modified":"2003-06-17 15:25:49","fileurl":""},{"id":65091,"heading":"fresca assmole take your meds","article":"and relax...your friends in the white coats are coming for ya.","author":"fresca take yer meds","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 15:57:10","modified":"2003-06-17 15:57:10","fileurl":""},{"id":65099,"heading":"United Nations primer (again and again)","article":"The laundry list of UN resolution above are either UN General Assembly resolutions or Chapter VI Security Council resolutions. These resolutions mandate negotiations to resolve.\r\n\r\nChapter VII resolutions (of which none of the above are included) are the resolutions like 1441. These resolutions are self-enforcing, requiring the offending country alone to comply with their terms. The UN recognized, under Article 42 of the UN Charter, the need for special military measures to be taken if a Chapter VII resolution is ignored by an aggressor. Hence the war a few months ago.","author":"Kofi","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 17:48:18","modified":"2003-06-17 17:48:18","fileurl":""},{"id":65143,"heading":"Another interesting point...","article":"...Israel is recognized by the United Nations.\r\n\r\nAll ARab countries, with the exceptions of Jordan and Egypt, do not recognize Israel as a nation.\r\n\r\nSeems to me there's something wrong about member nations not recognizing other member nations.\r\n\r\nOf course, Israel-hating is all the rage at the UN these days. Hardly a week goes by they don't pass a resolution condemning Israel for breathing, while ignoring atrocities elsewhere in the world.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-17 23:44:24","modified":"2003-06-17 23:44:24","fileurl":""},{"id":65170,"heading":"Ive learnt my mistake","article":"For anybody reading this let me explain that I have realised that I have been incorrect in using the word Jew when talking about the people who carry out the attrocities in Israel. I will use the word Zionist now to describe them as that is more correct. \r\n\r\nJewboy I am a little busy right now and a little tired but I will read ur articles and get back to you with a fitting reply soon enough. I just happened to read the last paragraph in one of ur "writings" above, with my name in it, but am not bothered to read all of it right now. \r\n\r\nwait for it","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 02:14:12","modified":"2003-06-18 02:14:12","fileurl":""},{"id":65196,"heading":"In response...","article":"*** In reply to "back to the point" Monday June 16, 2003 09:08 AM bit:\r\n\r\nAs for the tripe of equating Sharon=Hamas, where that poster proceeded to argue that Sharon and the Right, in their quest to sabotage "peace and the PLO", etc., well... this is, to put it mildly, a gross inaccuracy.\r\nIt's true the Likud (the major Israeli right wing party to which Sharon belongs) nurtured the then nascent Islamic MOVEMENT in Judea, Samaria & the Gaza strip, a.k.a the "occupied territories" - a movement that later formed Hamas, in an attempt to sabotage the PLO, which was THE obstacle to the peace process at the time, in order to FURTHER THE PROSPECTS OF PEACE. The Likud was naive to think they could find an ally for peace's sake in the Islamic movement and their efforts were in vain, of course. \r\nThe reason Sharon never seems to target Yasin is that Israel fears the world public opinion PR ramifications of assassinating a leader considered "spiritual" - the international community has come to make a rigid distinction between strictly "military" leaders and strictly "spiritual" leaders, even if this distinction doesn't always bear scrutiny in actuality, and as if the latter can never pose security threats by their incitement, poisonous propaganda, etc. \r\nEvery other "cloack and dagger" theory in this bag is pure speculation (read: BS) on the part of those uttering it.\r\n\r\n***In response to Omar:\r\n\r\nYou're fooling no one except perhaps yourself. You know, or are supposed to know by now, that Zionism is the JEWISH national liberation movement. The fact Dio is an anti-Zionist or non-Zionist Jew doesn't entitle you to wave a magic wand and create a new "Zionist" creed. And you've learned NOTHING because you don't want to. \r\n\r\n"Atrocities"?? Maybe you feel guilty for all the atrocities perpetuated by your "Palestinian" and other Arab brethren against Israeli AND other Jews, and are projecting them on most of the Israeli Jews (namely everyone except the anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox and the most extreme left wing). \r\n\r\nGranted, the Israeli Jews have made and are still making some mistakes vis-a-vis its Arab citizens as well as the "Palestinians" in the "occupied territories" (and yes, a few random ISOLATED atrocities in the disputed territories a.k.a "occupied territories", which are NOT a matter of official OR unofficial policy and are condemned immediately thereafter almost IN UNISON), and Israel must correct them. But the onus is now on the Palestinians and the neighboring Arab countries to win the Jews' trust and prove they're worthy of being given any land, if parts of the "occupied territories" are considered for this end.\r\n\r\nI suggest you keep being busy with something else and spare us your vagaries and obscenities that are your "holy texts". You had done more than your fair share of plunging the debate into an asinine match of obscene anal rhetoric. If you can't bring yourself to accept historical FACTS - and I've left out some others unfavorable to Arabs and "Palestinians" - then you're called upon to never return. \r\n\r\nI certainly won't hold my breath. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 05:16:35","modified":"2003-06-18 05:16:35","fileurl":""},{"id":65197,"heading":"hypocrisy","article":"We need to enforce the UN security resolutions because they are too weak to uphold them.\r\nUSE THIS when you need a war for oil in Iraq.\r\n\r\nThe UN is useless and shouldnt be supported at all and needs to be revamped.\r\nUSE THIS to protect your friends in Israel.\r\n","author":"3200fps","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 05:18:41","modified":"2003-06-18 05:18:41","fileurl":""},{"id":65198,"heading":"another interesting wordplay","article":"Another interesting point...\r\nFOR CELEBRITY WORDPLAY\r\n\r\n\r\n...Israel's (claim to Palestinan land) is (not) recognized by the United Nations. \r\n\r\nAll UN countries, with the exceptions of USA and Israel, do not recognize (Jerusalem) as Israel's national capital. \r\n\r\nSeems to me there's something wrong about member nations not recognizing other member nations. \r\n\r\nOf course, Iraq-hating was all the rage at the UN back in the day. Hardly a week goes by they don't pass a resolution condemning Iraq for breathing, while ignoring atrocities elsewhere in the world.\r\n\r\nTHAT WAS A HOOT\r\n","author":"for daveman and the jewboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 05:25:37","modified":"2003-06-18 05:25:37","fileurl":""},{"id":65200,"heading":"The UN, Israel and "Palestinians", etc.","article":"3200fps wrote, quote:\r\n\r\n>>USE THIS when you need a war for oil in Iraq. \r\n\r\nWell 3200fps, Israel needs no war for Iraqi oil. That's another unfounded theory that has been floated around. Israel had never pushed the US to launch any military campaign against Iraq in order to gain access to Iraqi oil or for other purposes, for that matter.\r\n\r\nRegarding your assertion about the UN, I'm glad to see you concur. \r\n\r\n\r\n"for daveman and the jewboy" wrote, quote:\r\n\r\n>>...Israel's (claim to Palestinan land) is (not) recognized by the United Nations. \r\n\r\nI don't give TWO hoots about that. And you have it backwards: the "Palestinians" are the ones claiming land that was originally Jewish before they either stole it or illegally settled there during the illegal Jordanian and Egyptian occupation from 1949-1967 - there had been a few Jewish settlements in the "occupied territories" before Arabs destroyed them or and\/or drove out their residents during the 1948 war, such as (original) Kfar 'Aza and Kfar Darom.\r\n\r\n>>All UN countries, with the exceptions of USA and Israel, do not recognize (Jerusalem) as Israel's national capital\r\n\r\nThat doesn't make Israel less deserving of having Jerusalem as its capital.\r\n\r\n>>Seems to me there's something wrong about member nations not recognizing other member nations. \r\n\r\nI couldn't agree more. It's high time Israel gets treated fairly in the UN. Down with all UN anti-Israel discrimination.\r\n\r\nWhich wordplay are you taking about?","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 06:53:14","modified":"2003-06-18 06:53:14","fileurl":""},{"id":65201,"heading":"To the coward","article":"Your wordplay is lame. Your show will not be picked up for another season. In other words, "You ARE the weakest link...goodbye!"\r\n\r\nThe UN needs to be revamped? Undoubtedly. However, they need to revamp it somewhere else. The US out of the UN, and the UN out of New York!\r\n\r\n"Jewboy": Don't confuse Omar et. al. with the facts. They don't handle them very well, and they refuse to admit their veracity anyway. To do otherwise would be to acknowledge the carefully crafted veil of lies they've built is just that. \r\n\r\nLong live Israel!","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 07:57:38","modified":"2003-06-18 07:57:38","fileurl":""},{"id":65207,"heading":"Ditto","article":"I wholly agree! \r\n\r\nAmen Ve'amen Sela!!! \r\n(An extended form of saying "amen" found in the Book of Psalms.) \r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 09:28:36","modified":"2003-06-18 09:28:36","fileurl":""},{"id":65212,"heading":""jewboy" the asshole","article":"1- while the likud as you admit was sponsoring hamas,the plo had struck peace at camp david - it's to sabotage this peace that hamas was created by the israeli right.\r\n\r\n2-sharon doesnt give a fuck about pr issues,as proven by his constant assassinating innocent women and children.\r\n\r\n3-the fact that he doesnt target yassin because he needs an enemy not because he's spiritual is further proven by sharon letting hamas political leader rantisi escape unhurt from the alleged,faked attempt on his life - it was the sionists of the iht who reported that 2 warning shots were fired at rantisi and 30\/40 seconds were given to him to leave the car and flee to safety before the slaughter of the innocent started.\r\n\r\nsharon is the worst enemy and murderer not only of arabs,but also of jews - via his hamas pals.","author":"SHARON=HAMAS","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 10:15:57","modified":"2003-06-18 10:15:57","fileurl":""},{"id":65220,"heading":"No comment to this nitwit.","article":"Yet I'd like to inform the uninformed open minded by refuting this poltroon's lies:\r\n\r\n1> The Likud stopped funding Hamas long before the Oslo Accords (of 1993) were even negotiated.\r\n\r\n2> All the women and children who get hit during military retaliations against "Palestinian" terrorists are never targeted. The injuries and deaths of the former are unfortunate colatteral damage. This problem is exacerbated by 2 variables: A) the "Palestinian" areas are very densely populated, B) All the terrorist organizations do their utmost, in an ongoing fashion, to use the non-combatant population as live shields.\r\n\r\n3> If the nitwit maintains Sharon doesn't concern himself with PR, he's entitled to his opinion. This won't change the facts.\r\n\r\n4> The nitwit's narrative about what happened to Rantisi hardly even registers as a fairy tale. The true narrative goes like this: \r\nthe ammo fired at Rantisi's vehicle was poorly aimed and it ended up killing other folks while only wounding Rantisi. The choppers' pilots didn't see the man fleeing the vehicle was Rantisi, otherwise they would have finished him off. \r\n\r\nBtw, this is not the first incident of this kind - there were others in the past. At other instances the ammo used was too light, so as to try avoid harming non-combatants, only to prove ineffective as the target escaped wounded or unharmed. Many people around the planet are unaware of all the pains Israel takes to avoid killing non-terrorists. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 11:03:13","modified":"2003-06-18 11:03:13","fileurl":""},{"id":65226,"heading":"My newest alias","article":"I'm "Jewboy." Very clever, don't you think?","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 11:43:28","modified":"2003-06-18 11:43:28","fileurl":""},{"id":65227,"heading":"OOh, fresca...","article":"I wasn't aware. I employed the first alias I could think of. Let me stay with it. :-)","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 11:53:06","modified":"2003-06-18 11:53:06","fileurl":""},{"id":65229,"heading":"P.S. to the former message:","article":"Also, the various Israeli intelligence apparatuses made a mistake: the fact other people besides Rantisi were in the vehicle eluded them. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 12:01:28","modified":"2003-06-18 12:01:28","fileurl":""},{"id":65240,"heading":"I tried ....","article":"Dear Zionist little boy,\r\nlet me start by saying it makes no difference to me what U think or what U think I should do. Just to let you know I do have a life outside indymedia. As for ur self righteous crap and tons of information.... none of which quotes any sources..... thats what gives it credibility see, the only one ur fooling is U. But then since ur ancestors have been around for so long and so many bad things have happened to them and your from the chosen people, we should just take ur word for it and let u do just as u fucking please.... tch tch tch.. poor U. \r\n\r\nYeah Right!!!\r\n\r\nQuite frankly a lot of U people are on drugs if U think that governments do not fund people who might be "evil" but will help them in weakening or destroying a bigger threat. The US did it with Saddam Hussain in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Bush administration can lie about everythihng from election results to Enron but when it comes to foreign policy they will take the decision that is right for the people of the world. Believe that ull believe anything.\r\n\r\nnow for some of the gems u placed \r\n\r\nYou know, or are supposed to know by now, that Zionism is the JEWISH national liberation movement. Read this website jewboy \r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.netureikartauk.org\/neuberger.html\r\n\r\n2. "Atrocities"?? Maybe you feel guilty for all the atrocities perpetuated by your "Palestinian" and other Arab brethren against Israeli AND other Jews, and are projecting them on most of the Israeli Jews (namely everyone except the anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox and the most extreme left wing). \r\n\r\noh how I feel your pain. Yes everything is the palestinians fault. everything from the shuttle disaster to Al Gore losing the election is their fault. The Israelis have tanks and M16s while the palestinians have stones. Oh the poor poor israelis, oh how my heart should bleed for these murderers. what have they ever done to deserve all of this... gee I dont know maybe killed people, demolished homes, tortured people. Motherfucker why is it that when u kill arabs it is ok as collateral damage but when they take u out it is suicide bombing. Whats food for the goose is food for the gander. Oh but your jewish so u must be special. You shyould be allowed to kill and maim and displace without retaliation CUZ THIS WAS THE LAND OF UR ANCESTORS THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO. How could I not see the reasoning.\r\n\r\nDo u know how fucking stupid this argument is that this land belonged to your people a few thousand years ago thats why u have the exclusinve right to it. By any rule of law it is proposterous an d U expect me and any other person with hald a brain cell to buy that argument\r\n\r\n3. Granted, the Israeli Jews have made and are still making some mistakes vis-a-vis its Arab citizens as well as the "Palestinians" in the "occupied territories" (and yes, a few random ISOLATED atrocities in the disputed territories a.k.a "occupied territories", which are NOT a matter of official OR unofficial policy and are condemned immediately thereafter almost IN UNISON), and Israel must correct them. But the onus is now on the Palestinians and the neighboring Arab countries to win the Jews' trust and prove they're worthy of being given any land, if parts of the "occupied territories" are considered for this end \r\n\r\nSo U do agree that attrocities are taking place. I guess the only disagreement we have then is on the number of attrocities and the manner. Try these for size \r\n\r\nwww.halturnershow.com\/israeliatrocities.html\r\n\r\nFinally \r\n\r\nSeems to me there's something wrong about member nations not recognizing other member nations\r\n\r\nThere have been many instances when countries have been evicted from the UN or suffered sanction. The case of South Africa with Apartheid was one of them. See Jewboy U dont seem to be that clever. When member states commit attrocities the UN is supposed to take action. Did it occur to you that the US (because of the influence of its Jewish population) and Israel are like the soldier who wrote home saying the whole company was out of step except for him. \r\n\r\nITS ABOUT TIME THERE WAS A PALESTINIAN STATE. Any Jew would be a fucking idiot to not realise that and im quoting Thomas Friedman when I say this that Israel won the war in six days and has been in the seventh day since. any fool can see that the tactics are not working. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 12:49:44","modified":"2003-06-18 12:49:44","fileurl":""},{"id":65242,"heading":"jewboy the asshole","article":">> The Likud stopped funding Hamas long before the Oslo Accords (of 1993) were even negotiated. <<\r\n\r\nplease provide verifiable sourcing\/evidence\/linx for your dogmatic assertion or else shut the fuck up.\r\n\r\nmoreover,it was to sabotage camp david not oslo that hamas was created asshole.\r\n\r\nby the oslo time,hamas was up and running and ready to sabotage oslo and whatever future peace.\r\n\r\nsharon kills the innocent which proves he's not concerned with pr. either provide counterarguments or else shut the fuck up.\r\n\r\nthat the first 2 shots were poorly aimed is a figment of your imagination. it was the sionists of the iht who reported that after the first 2 shots 30 to 40 seconds were given to rantisi (so he could flee I add since there's no other reasonable explanation).\r\n\r\nyou are an asshole jewboy.\r\n\r\ncouldn't the cia afford a better spammer?\r\n\r\n","author":"jewboy the asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 12:57:03","modified":"2003-06-18 12:57:03","fileurl":""},{"id":65244,"heading":":D","article":"obviously not.","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 13:02:55","modified":"2003-06-18 13:02:55","fileurl":""},{"id":65255,"heading":"fresCOW","article":"I havent forgotten about you girl... I still think your a crack whore ;)","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 13:32:12","modified":"2003-06-18 13:32:12","fileurl":""},{"id":65301,"heading":"no spammer reply","article":"could it be that our "jewboy" assmole cannot reply?\r\n\r\nSHARON=HAMAS!","author":"jewboy the asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 15:06:10","modified":"2003-06-18 15:06:10","fileurl":""},{"id":65310,"heading":"tell your mommy Ill be right over","article":"Susie devoid of any intelligence,\r\nim not gay so cock sucking is an art that I am sure your more practiced at than me ;) right you slut. Freedom of Speech is guaranteed by the constitution of the United States bitch. If U dont like what u read here go join ur mum. Like I said ill be there soon enough.... but ill only bone her. You I wouldnt touch but u can watch and take pointers ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 15:22:34","modified":"2003-06-18 15:22:34","fileurl":""},{"id":65314,"heading":"Is Israel Blackmailing America?","article":"Is Israel Blackmailing America?: http:\/\/www.whatreallyhappened.com\/blackmail.html","author":"Cloak and Dagger","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 15:40:39","modified":"2003-06-18 15:40:39","fileurl":""},{"id":65318,"heading":"OMAR, THE VIRTUOSE...","article":">>As for ur self righteous crap and tons of information.... none of which quotes any sources.....thats what gives it credibility see,\r\n\r\nCorrect information can always stand by itself, it doesn't need any quotations to support it. You somehow think that if you dazzle us with multiple sources and\/or quotations your credibility will be bolstered. HA!! You've enclosed some interesting links, discussing them will be interesting.\r\n\r\n >>the only one ur fooling is U.\r\n\r\nNot by a long shot, judging from the postings I've seen since I joined this thread. Try being a bit more original. \r\n\r\n>>But then since ur ancestors have been around for so long and so many bad things have happened to them and your from the chosen people, we should just take ur word for it and let u do just as u fucking please.... tch tch tch.. poor U. Yeah Right!!!\r\n\r\nAgain, try being more original. You're chewing on the same tired self denial tactics. \r\n\r\n>>Quite frankly a lot of U people are on drugs if U think that governments do not fund people who might be "evil" but will help them in weakening or destroying a bigger threat. The US did it with Saddam Hussain in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Bush administration can lie about everythihng from election results to Enron but when it comes to foreign policy they will take the decision that is right for the people of the world. Believe that ull believe anything. \r\n\r\nMaybe you don't give a damn about how oppressed the Iraqi people and the Afghanis were under Saddam Insane and the Taliban, respectively. Their forceful removal was the only way of bettering these peoples' lots. \r\n\r\n>>Read this website jewboy http:\/\/www.netureikartauk.org\/neuberger.html \r\n\r\nOaaaah. Now the heat is on, baby...sweetie-pie, believe it or not, while I was typing the paragraph containing your name I was thinking of the Neturei Karta website, which, incidentally, I had read from a few weeks before...and I had a hunch somewhere in the back of my mind that you'd try this ruse. You "forgot" to mention a few crucial points:\r\n(A) Neturei Karta has long been in bed with the "Palestinians" because the former have been going to (almost) every possible length to oppose Zionism and Israel. For this reason (and possibly also others) they are ostracized by virtually all the Jews - even all the anti-Zionist ulta-Orthodox - with the possible exception of the Satmar Hassidim.\r\n(B) Neturei Karta have "bent" the truth about Judaism on any point where anything in it (as it had before the advent of religious Zionism in the late 19th century) could refute the "Palestinian" cause. They've been lying, distorting, telling half-truths...you name it. They've been doing so, because they try utilizing every trick in the book to help bolster the "Palestinian" cause AS A MEANS of negating Zionism and Israel; yet their assistance of "Palestinians" is NOT an end in and of itself, no matter what they'd tell you or what you think. (C) They have been attending all the demonstrations whose theme or sub-theme is anti-Israeli, no matter who their co-demonstrators are or how ANTI-JEWISH they might be. So they've been compromising Jewish values that aren't necessarily Zionism related. They don't mind this, and that's why they're so wacky and ostracized by all other religious Jews. \r\n\r\n>>Yes everything is the palestinians fault. everything from the shuttle disaster to Al Gore losing the election is their fault. The Israelis have tanks and M16s while the palestinians have stones. Oh the poor poor israelis, oh how my heart should bleed for these murderers. what have they ever done to deserve all of this... \r\n\r\nYou should keep your tired old false myths, lies, melodrama and excessive cynicism to yourself. I'm not conned by this crap, nor are many others.\r\n\r\n>>gee I dont know maybe killed people, demolished homes, tortured people. \r\n\r\nGo to past postings by fresca and\/or daveman and\/or bushadmirer to reread why exactly, and try to stop whining while you're at it.\r\n\r\n>>Motherfucker why is it that when u kill arabs it is ok as collateral damage but when they take u out it is suicide bombing. Whats food for the goose is food for the gander. \r\n\r\nGo back to nursery school. Oh, did you penn the "Motherfucker" song for Prince a.k.a "the Artist"?\r\n\r\n>>You shyould be allowed to kill and maim and displace without retaliation CUZ THIS WAS THE LAND OF UR ANCESTORS THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO. How could I not see the reasoning. \r\n\r\n"Your highness", I should be your student!! You put every historian to shame!!!\r\n\r\n>>Do u know how fucking stupid this argument is that this land belonged to your people a few thousand years ago thats why u have the exclusinve right to it. \r\n\r\nYou're disinformation is too transparent and you have it almost reversed (because Jews have had rights to the land for millennia, i.e. for the interim). YOU and your ilk (80% of ALL the Arabs) have always considered all of it exclusive "Palestinian" patrimony and are startled at realizing an ever growing portion of public opinion is becoming aware of this, whereas many people know that most of the Jews have been willing to compromise over it. This compromise almost materialized, but your faggot fat leader Arafat blew it up. \r\n\r\n>>By any rule of law it is proposterous an d U expect me and any other person with hald a brain cell to buy that argument \r\n\r\nI haven't been trying to convince you of, and I don't expect you and your ilk to buy, shit. As far as international law is concerned, Judea, Samaria & the Gaza strip have been disputed territories as of June 1967 notwithstanding your semantic acrobatics. I'm stating these facts to the benefit of fair people unlike yourself and your "entourage", i.e. people with at least a 1\/4 of a brain cell. \r\n\r\n>>So U do agree that attrocities are taking place. I guess the only disagreement we have then is on the number of attrocities and the manner. Try these for size http:\/\/www.halturnershow.com\/israeliatrocities.html \r\n\r\nYou're right for a change. The number of atrocities is much smaller and their manner is much more benign than you'd have me and others believe. Conversely, let's check what your brothers have done: I think one example of the savagery of your beloved "Palestinian" brethren will suffice. Here it is: http:\/\/212.150.177.135\/lynch\/linch0.html (click the "CLICK HERE FOR MORE PICTURES OF THE LYNCH (difficult to see) link, then click on each picture to enlarge it!). Make no mistake, there are many other websites, from various non-Israeli or non-Jewish sources who exhibit these and worst photos, where you can see 2 Arabs holding their internal organs aloft!!!\r\n\r\n>>See Jewboy U dont seem to be that clever. When member states commit attrocities the UN is supposed to take action. Did it occur to you that the US (because of the influence of its Jewish population) and Israel are like the soldier who wrote home saying the whole company was out of step except for him. \r\n\r\nI suppose you think your anal rhetoric makes you clever, you chucklehead. You're giving me a school-grade lecture on how the UN operates, huh? Continue to blow air.\r\n\r\n>>ITS ABOUT TIME THERE WAS A PALESTINIAN STATE. Any Jew would be a fucking idiot to not realise that...\r\n\r\nThat could have already materialized, fuckwit. Problem is, too many in your camp do NOT want it, as can be ascertained from their musings and conduct alike.\r\n\r\n >>and im quoting Thomas Friedman when I say this that Israel won the war in six days and has been in the seventh day since. any fool can see that the tactics are not working. \r\n\r\nYou can shove your quotation book up your ass. Ha, another worthless pearl of wisdom from a pro-Palestinian "journalist" (i.e. occasional American policy "doctor" and setter as well) who masquerades as a pro-Israeli Jew. But then I know where he's coming from (pun intended), he's been working in one of the most unreliable international and American newspapers for a l-o-n-g time. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 15:47:02","modified":"2003-06-18 15:47:02","fileurl":""},{"id":65323,"heading":"JEWBOY the whore","article":"- "jewboy" the whore still refusing to address 8:57 am:\r\ncould it be that he can't?\r\n\r\n-the taliban and saddam were created by the us under reagan you asshole.\r\n\r\nnow go give bush another blowjob.and get aids.","author":"jewboy the whore","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 15:54:29","modified":"2003-06-18 15:54:29","fileurl":""},{"id":65334,"heading":"Read a better book","article":""the taliban and saddam were created by the us under reagan you asshole."\r\n\r\nNo the US did not create these movements; you are deluding yourself to maintain your anti-american agenda. However, the thing I don't understand, if you were so against this "us policy" why are you so against changing it?\r\n\r\nIt is easier to hate, than to understand.\r\n","author":"Now!","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 16:07:19","modified":"2003-06-18 16:07:19","fileurl":""},{"id":65340,"heading":""now" is an asshole","article":"you still refusing to address 8:57 am,jewboy with another nick.\r\n to maintain tha talibam and saddam were not cia operations is to ignore mainstream history.\r\n\r\nthis policy has NOT been reversed:\r\n\r\nosama,omar,saddam are clearly still being protected by bush who refuses to capture or kill em.\r\n\r\njust like sharon wont get his creature yassin.\r\n","author":""now" is an asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 16:13:36","modified":"2003-06-18 16:13:36","fileurl":""},{"id":65344,"heading":"Oh, just a few more things...","article":"There are good commentaries on Israel, Jews and "Palestinians" by an Arab named Joseph Farah, an impartial observer who's already received loads of hate mail and death threats from his fellow Arabs because he has dared to expose the Palestinian "cause" for the hoax it is. It's on http:\/\/wnd.com\/, but I don't expect hefty loonies like Omar, "Cloack and dagger", "Jewboy is an asshole" and the rest of that clique to read Farah's commentaries on the topic. It would be too painful for them; they might get a nervous breakdown (or perhaps stick their heads out of their anus to gorge accusations in the way of Farah being paid by the Zionists to author these commentaries...) \r\n\r\nAnd...\r\n\r\n***" jewboy the asshole wrote", quote:\r\n\r\n>>please provide verifiable sourcing\/evidence\/linx for your dogmatic assertion or else shut the fuck up. \r\n\r\nSee what I told your Pal (pun intended) Omar on this.\r\n\r\n>>moreover,it was to sabotage camp david not oslo that hamas was created asshole. \r\n>>sharon kills the innocent which proves he's not concerned with pr. either provide counterarguments or else shut the fuck up. \r\n\r\nHere's one: shove your head back up your ass and leave it there.\r\n\r\n>>by the oslo time,hamas was up and running and ready to sabotage oslo and whatever future peace. \r\n\r\nGeez, I'm overwhelmed by awe, how did you manage to state this correct fact???!!! \r\n\r\n>>...(so he could flee I add since there's no other reasonable explanation). \r\n\r\nThere's no reasoning with someone of your preoccupation (no pun intended).\r\n\r\n>>couldn't the cia afford a better spammer? \r\n\r\nOops... today I forgot to take home the bi-monthly check from the CIA. it's awaiting me in my mailbox. \r\n\r\n***"jewboy the asshole" wrote, quote:\r\n\r\n>>could it be that our "jewboy" assmole cannot reply? SHARON=HAMAS! \r\n\r\n"jewboy the asshole" poltroon = HAMAS \r\n\r\n***"JEWBOY the whore" wrote, quote:\r\n\r\n>>now go give bush another blowjob.and get aids.\r\n\r\nOn one condition...that you suck your own mother's pussy and tits, and then fuck her for real.\r\n\r\n***One last thing to the Omar clique: see you tomorrow, now I must go do other things. I have a life too, not only Omar the "luminary" has one.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 16:26:50","modified":"2003-06-18 16:26:50","fileurl":""},{"id":65350,"heading":"whatever","article":""osama,omar,saddam are clearly still being protected by bush who refuses to capture or kill em"\r\n\r\nWhy?\r\nCan you even come up with anything other than say a personal attack.\r\n\r\n"just like sharon wont get his creature yassin"\r\n\r\nYep, the EU is protecting this Egypt terrorist, and Israel won't act unless they get a green light from the US.\r\n","author":"Say What?","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 16:38:46","modified":"2003-06-18 16:38:46","fileurl":""},{"id":65354,"heading":"to say what=jewboy=dickhead","article":"do you have counterarguments or just backfiring insults or jus articles of faith like "the eu is protecting yassin" - whom sharon could kill any time but refuses to so the cycle of violence can go on for ever just like bush refuses to get osama?","author":"say what=jewboy=dickhead","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 16:47:56","modified":"2003-06-18 16:47:56","fileurl":""},{"id":65361,"heading":"m","article":"a","author":"koran blows pigs","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2003-06-18 17:17:19","modified":"2005-08-15 01:32:11","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/toddler.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/toddler.jpg"}},{"id":65362,"heading":"m","article":"a","author":"koran blows pigs","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2003-06-18 17:18:19","modified":"2005-08-15 01:32:11","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/andy_explains_islam.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/andy_explains_islam.jpg"}},{"id":65365,"heading":"back to the point","article":"when the bushiite spammers run out of pseudoarguments,they typically start posting crap like the 2 photos above - backfiring dementia praecox.\r\n\r\nthe issue here is:\r\n\r\nsharon and the likud created hamas to sabotage all peace accords,as shown by thwe fact that sharon never targets hamas leader yassin for assassination - just like bush won't get osama.\r\n\r\nthe original post shows this aptly.","author":"back to the point","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 17:31:06","modified":"2003-06-18 17:31:06","fileurl":""},{"id":65374,"heading":"Hamas MOHAMMED: AN EXAMPLE of ISLAM\u2019 FOUNDER AND HIS TERRORISTIC MASS MURDERS","article":"\r\nWhen the prophet of Islam started preaching his new religion in Mecca, he was conciliatory to Christians and Jews. He told them, "We believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you, our God is the same as your God. "Surah 29:45. This attitude changed completely after he gained strength. Allah then tells him to \r\n"Fight People of the Book (Christians and Jews), who do not accept the religion of the truth (Islam), until they pay tribute (penalty tax) by hand, being inferior." Surah 9:29. \r\n\r\nRegarding Christians and Jews, it seems that Mohammed hated the Jews more. During his lifetime, Mohammed devoted much of his efforts to get rid of the Jews: "You (Jews) should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His apostle, and I want to expel from this land ( the Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it". Mohammed was quoted. \r\n\r\nAt that time there were in Medina three Jewish tribes. Two of them, the Qaynqa and the Bani-al-Nudair tribes, were besieged by Mohammed\u2019s men, blocking their access to food supplies, until they surrendered on Mohammed\u2019s terms, which were that their lives would be spared, that they must emigrate from Medina, and that they must deposit all their belongings at a certain place for distribution among Muslims. \r\n\r\nThe third tribe, Bani Quayza, was not as lucky. After the war of the trench, in which Mohammed was besieged by the Qurayshites led, by Abu Sofyan, it was alleged that Bani Qurayza agreed to provide help from within to Abu Sofyan\u2019s forces. Although the alleged help did not materialize and the siege eventually ended, nevertheless, Mohammed never forgave them for their willingness to help his enemies. \r\n\r\nMuslims turned against Bani Qurayza and blocked their streets for twenty five days. \r\n\r\nThe Jewish tribe expressed readiness to accept the surrender terms which had been conceded to the other two Jewish tribes, namely cession of their belongings and departure with safe conduct. \r\n\r\nMohammed, however, would not consent to this, and instead appointed as an arbiter Saad iben Moaz, a man who was known to be on bad terms with Bani Qurayza. Saad ruled that all Bani Qurayza\u2019s men should be beheaded, that the women and children should be sold as slaves, and that all their property should be divided among the Muslims. \r\n\r\nTrenches were dug in the bazaar of Medina for disposal of the nine hundred Jewish bodies whom Mohammed had spent the night slaughtering. (See Ibn Hisham: The Prophet\u2019s Biography: vol 2 pages 40&41.) \r\n\r\nWow, just how poorly uneducated and evil do you have to be to believe that "God" would have talked to this intensely evil man... Say what you want, but I don't remember hearing about Jesus or Buddha killing the male population of an entire village then selling the women and children into slavery. Wonderful muhammad, what a sick joke. \r\n\r\nTo think these stupid muslims name their children after this asshole, pathetic.\r\n","author":"Liberals pray to Allah","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2003-06-18 17:50:03","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:10","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/suicidearafat.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/06\/suicidearafat.jpg"}},{"id":65390,"heading":"Internal Struggle","article":"Ha'aretz reports that Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian prime minister, has broken off "cease-fire" talks with Hamas. "Palestinian sources said the Abbas-Hamas meeting was canceled because the prime minister wants to reach an understanding on a cease-fire with his own Fatah faction before trying to do the same with Hamas leaders. He met with Fatah leaders in Gaza for two hours last night for this purpose, but did not achieve any concrete results."\r\n\r\nCan this guy really pacify his population if he can't even reach a ceasefire with himself?\r\n","author":"Ffutal","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 18:44:55","modified":"2003-06-18 18:44:55","fileurl":""},{"id":65418,"heading":"Who really owns Israel and Jerusalem","article":"I dont think that any one race or religion has a "birth right" to Jerusalem, Israel or the Middle East in general.\r\n\r\nOver 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital.\r\n The region was successively ruled by the \r\nHebrews [Jews], \r\nAssyrians, \r\nBabylonians,\r\n Persians, \r\nGreeks, \r\nMaccabeans, \r\nRomans, \r\nByzantines,\r\n Arabs, \r\nEgyptians, \r\nthe Crusaders, \r\nMamelukes, \r\nthe Turks -- 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) \r\nand then once again by the Jews in 1948.","author":"Sy$teMF@iLuRe","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 20:25:34","modified":"2003-06-18 20:25:34","fileurl":""},{"id":65428,"heading":"..","article":""I dont think that any one race or religion has a "birth right" to Jerusalem, Israel or the Middle East in general."\r\n\r\nI understand where your coming from, but point out that the Jews still do need a homeland.\r\n\r\nBut if we examine the other side, would the Islamic world really crumble if "heaven forbid" they lost Jerusalem. Of course not, yet Arabs complain\r\nBy their very reasoning the Germans have every right to attack the poles, because they lost land. Instead of say getting over it, and moving on> Oops, can\u2019t else that of a Muslim, guess that makes me the "great Satan" (what year are these people living in. \r\n\r\nThe problem is Islam itself. It has always been very assertive in its very own nature. So when Islamic society is confront by a more powerful one, it sort of just bangs its head into the wall and the cries about it. Most Arab nations are only hanging on to the illusion of self-sufficiency because of their oil revenues. When the oil age ends, they will hit the floor pretty damn hard.\r\n","author":"..","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-18 21:00:01","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:10","fileurl":""},{"id":65452,"heading":"Jewboy","article":""I wasn't aware. I employed the first alias I could think of. Let me stay with it. :-)"\r\n\r\nIt's all yours. I'm honored to be confused with you.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 00:24:20","modified":"2003-06-19 00:24:20","fileurl":""},{"id":65454,"heading":"And another thing","article":"Beyond the inanity of the original post and it's desperate attempt to actually lay the blame and responsibility for the actions of the subhumans of hamas, et.al. this thread illustrates something very well.\r\nThose who are obsessed with simply hating Israel (to the point that they actually fantasize that Israel is somehow attacking itself!) do so by hiding behind the incredibly transparent ruse of caring deeply about the plight of the poor oppressed "palestinians". \r\n\r\nAs has been pointed out a million times over on this board and others like it, the "left" seems to have actually no regard for ANYONE who isn't in some way at odds with Israel or the US. No one cares about the congo. No one cares about Indonesia. No one cares about the plight of arabs in Syria (the parking lot that was Hama). No one cares about araslavery in Sudan. No one cares about the murders of gays in Saudi Arabia. \r\n\r\nThe only concern is about a group of people who are in a struggle with Israel.\r\n\r\nWhy is that? Why such a narrow range of compassion and concern from a group that likes to wear their bleeding hearts on their sleeve? Could it be that, simply put, the typical "leftist" simply doesn't like Israel purely because Israel has prospered in a land where other groups have and are floundering? Or, maybe if Sharon wasn't so damn white he'd be harder to condemn. \r\n\r\nI think that's it. Israel is an extention of the US, so the theory goes, and since we are simply puppets of RICH WHITE GUYS then Israel must be selfish racist bastards as well.\r\n\r\nThat and, some of you are simply Jew haters.\r\n\r\nI don't know what the reason is, but one thing is for certain. The "palestinians" should be damn glad their "oppressors" are "WHITE" and Jewish, otherwise no one around here would have ever heard of them.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 00:41:27","modified":"2003-06-19 00:41:27","fileurl":""},{"id":65459,"heading":"Jewbag","article":""Correct information can always stand by itself, it doesn't need any quotations to support it"\r\n\r\nDID THIS FOOL REALLY WRITE THIS ON A DISCUSSION FORUM. Whats the color of the sky in your world Oh most wisest Jew that ever lived? I think you believe your some sort of expert.. Dont tell me your asking me to take your word for anything Jewbag. Even you cant be that stupid;.\r\n\r\n"Not by a long shot, judging from the postings I've seen since I joined this thread. Try being a bit more original"\r\n\r\nBy a long shot indeed. \r\n\r\n"Again, try being more original. You're chewing on the same tired self denial tactics"\r\n\r\nyou mean original like you? yep I ve read a lot of stuff in your listings that is really original. Your a disgrace to all big nosed people. Try looking at your listings jewbag before asking others to be more original. When a discussion takes place it is the TRUTH that matters not originality. See thats where ur fucking up but then your jewish. What does the truth have to do with you. Nobody has ever accused a jew f being a liar, or a thief or a cheat or penny pinching.........\r\n\r\n"Maybe you don't give a damn about how oppressed the Iraqi people and the Afghanis were under Saddam Insane and the Taliban, respectively. Their forceful removal was the only way of bettering these peoples' lots"\r\n\r\nTHIS ONE HAS TO BE MY FAVORITE. This motherfuckers a liar and a hypocrite. wow from everything that Jewbag has written so far it is so painfully clear he feels so much for all Arabs and muslims. im sure you must be heartbroken. Read the next excerpt for confirmation of his love for muslims.\r\n\r\n"You're disinformation is too transparent and you have it almost reversed (because Jews have had rights to the land for millennia, i.e. for the interim). YOU and your ilk (80% of ALL the Arabs) have always considered all of it exclusive "Palestinian" patrimony and are startled at realizing an ever growing portion of public opinion is becoming aware of this, whereas many people know that most of the Jews have been willing to compromise over it. This compromise almost materialized, but your faggot fat leader Arafat blew it up. "\r\n\r\nMy disinformation is too aparent? This motherfucker craxks me up. The next time you find something incorrect try attaching a link to some place where we can see your version of the truth a.k.a another lie.. Oh my bad the truth stands up for itself and doesnt need any "quotations" to support it. Which public is he talking about. This fools on crack. Hes making sweeping statements and doesnt have shit to show for it. HEY CRACKHEAD did U carry out these surveys yourself, where your talking of the public "knowing or becoming aware"\r\n\r\n"Oaaaah. Now the heat is on, baby...sweetie-pie, believe it or not, while I was typing the paragraph containing your name I was thinking of the Neturei Karta website, which, incidentally, I had read from a few weeks before...and I had a hunch somewhere in the back of my mind that you'd try this ruse. You "forgot" to mention a few crucial points: \r\n(A) Neturei Karta has long been in bed with the "Palestinians" because the former have been going to (almost) every possible length to oppose Zionism and Israel. For this reason (and possibly also others) they are ostracized by virtually all the Jews - even all the anti-Zionist ulta-Orthodox - with the possible exception of the Satmar Hassidim. \r\n(B) Neturei Karta have "bent" the truth about Judaism on any point where anything in it (as it had before the advent of religious Zionism in the late 19th century) could refute the "Palestinian" cause. They've been lying, distorting, telling half-truths...you name it. They've been doing so, because they try utilizing every trick in the book to help bolster the "Palestinian" cause AS A MEANS of negating Zionism and Israel; yet their assistance of "Palestinians" is NOT an end in and of itself, no matter what they'd tell you or what you think. (C) They have been attending all the demonstrations whose theme or sub-theme is anti-Israeli, no matter who their co-demonstrators are or how ANTI-JEWISH they might be. So they've been compromising Jewish values that aren't necessarily Zionism related. They don't mind this, and that's why they're so wacky and ostracized by all other religious Jews. "\r\n\r\n:D the POT calling the kettle black. Theyve been lying and cheathing and decieving.... I can see where poor you is being treated so badly. Once again you read the article. Why dont you counter their claims? its because you cant can U?\r\n\r\n\r\n"You should keep your tired old false myths, lies, melodrama and excessive cynicism to yourself. I'm not conned by this crap, nor are many others"\r\n\r\nlisten man sounds to me like your getting desperate ;) dont get other people involved. This discussion is between me and you. Your not a mind reader so dont speak for other people. Come on baby lets talk. Oh yeah and everything i am saying is sooooo incorrect and everything your saying must be the truth cuz I dont know.... ur the chosen one or people or whatever. Did anyone see Kung POW?\r\n\r\n"Go to past postings by fresca and\/or daveman and\/or bushadmirer to reread why exactly, and try to stop whining while you're at it. "\r\n\r\nOh my God. Just the people whose opinion I cared for. Hell if Fresca agrees with you then and shes just as big of a crack Whore then your really on a role with your arguments. Hey Crack Head I dont agree with what their saying either. why dont you go back and try reading what I have written in response to their posts... Get the fuck out of here U moron. Your just a dumb fuck with a lot of time on his hands. You might have some facts but no skills at putting them across. With a nose as big as yours u need to be twice or three times as careful as the normal crackhead cuz with each sniff you probably take in 9 times as much SNORTER.\r\n\r\n"Go back to nursery school. Oh, did you penn the "Motherfucker" song for Prince a.k.a "the Artist"? "\r\n\r\nNo the word just pops in my head whenever I read ur crap. No I didnt pen the song for prince but I am writng a song called Jewbags should be taxed cuz of their noses\r\n\r\n""Your highness", I should be your student!! You put every historian to shame!!! "\r\n\r\nI dont know about every historian but Ill be happy with you being ashamed. Then again you need dignity and self respect to feel shame and I doubt you have any of those virtues. \r\n\r\nI haven't been trying to convince you of, and I don't expect you and your ilk to buy, shit. As far as international law is concerned, Judea, Samaria & the Gaza strip have been disputed territories as of June 1967 notwithstanding your semantic acrobatics. I'm stating these facts to the benefit of fair people unlike yourself and your "entourage", i.e. people with at least a 1\/4 of a brain cell. \r\n\r\n1\/4 of a brain cell?? yeah i can see your point about being original. Answer this for me clever boy? what were these territories before the first world war, after and before 1948? Just answer the question. Dont give me an explanation. just answer the question. My kind :D any piece of original writing. Whats your kind? fair minded people?? Do u really want fair minded people to know the truth Jewbag. You and your "kind" will look really bad if that happens :P\r\n\r\n"I suppose you think your anal rhetoric makes you clever, you chucklehead. You're giving me a school-grade lecture on how the UN operates, huh? Continue to blow air."\r\n\r\nObviously your not coming across as very clever otherwise I would not have needed to explain the UN to you. chucklehead??? U fucking sausage jockey, you actually use that word\r\n\r\n"You can shove your quotation book up your ass. Ha, another worthless pearl of wisdom from a pro-Palestinian "journalist" (i.e. occasional American policy "doctor" and setter as well) who masquerades as a pro-Israeli Jew. But then I know where he's coming from (pun intended), he's been working in one of the most unreliable international and American newspapers for a l-o-n-g time. "\r\n\r\nMan this man has no links, no arguments, talks like hes an expert (riiiight) doesnt offer proof for his arguments and is now discrediting Thomas Friedman and the New York Times. Way to go Jewbag. We need more self righteous clowns like you in this world. Get your head out of the fucking ozone layer. Usually when people come up with stuff that they cant prove or site sources for it is known as fiction Jewbag. Walt Disney should have HAD YOUR imagination. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 01:06:39","modified":"2003-06-19 01:06:39","fileurl":""},{"id":65462,"heading":"..","article":"Omar,\r\n\r\nGet over it, so the Arabs haven't won a war in over 300 years. We won't hold that against you. But your efforts are self-defeating. No Jihad will ever succeed unless you are willing to strive for the progress that will advance the Muslim world to the point where it can be competitive with the west. The simply reality is this; we could conquer the Middle East if we wanted too. Your armies are a pitiful sight, more over; your Islamic army staffs still use outdated Russian tactics. It's like shooting fish in a bucket.\r\n\r\n"A Native American, an Arab and a cowboy, were sitting at bar, the native says my people were once many, and now are few. The Arab says my people were once few, but now are many. The cowboy says that\u2019s because we haven't played cowboys and Arabs yet!"\r\n","author":"..","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 01:34:04","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:10","fileurl":""},{"id":65464,"heading":"well","article":""what were these territories before the first world war, after and before 1948? Just answer the question. "\r\n\r\nOttoman empire....of course the Jews bought alot of the land so.....","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 01:51:17","modified":"2003-06-19 01:51:17","fileurl":""},{"id":65465,"heading":"By the way Omar","article":"Still waiting for a response to my earlier pot. Or maybe you've conveniently forgotten that.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 01:57:49","modified":"2003-06-19 01:57:49","fileurl":""},{"id":65471,"heading":"pot?","article":"You cant even spell you fucking Jew killer.","author":"angie","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 02:27:15","modified":"2003-06-19 02:27:15","fileurl":""},{"id":65475,"heading":"FresCOW","article":"the Japanese bought a lot of the land in the US in the 1980s, you dont see them claiming that this country is a colony of theirs do U. Buying a corner plot doesnt give U sovereignity over that land. Give me time Fresca I know you fighting for my attention but I can deal with only one scum at a time and Jewbag is the biggest scum so im dealing with him first. I havent forgotten about you ;)","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 03:19:56","modified":"2003-06-19 03:19:56","fileurl":""},{"id":65477,"heading":"for the record","article":"Im Pakistani ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 03:22:51","modified":"2003-06-19 03:22:51","fileurl":""},{"id":65478,"heading":""Liberals pray to Allah!"","article":"Regarding the "Hamas MOHAMMED: AN EXAMPLE of ISLAM\u2019 FOUNDER AND HIS TERRORISTIC MASS MURDERS" message: \r\nKudos to you for the great history lesson! You have brilliantly placed under ridiculous light the ludicrous Arab\/Islamic notion of considering the Jews "cousins".\r\n\r\nTwo thumps up! ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 03:39:58","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:10","fileurl":""},{"id":65479,"heading":"As for the "Internal Struggle" posting of 02:44 PM:","article":"Ffutal, let me thank you for enclosing that info. I won't bet on Omar reading it, much less giving a damn about it though. Incidentally, you've made a good choice by gleainng the story from Israel's LEFT-wing paper, which is actually an organ of the extreme left-wing party Meretz. So you didn't use a right wing source. \r\n\r\nExcellent! \r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 03:54:42","modified":"2003-06-19 03:54:42","fileurl":""},{"id":65481,"heading":"Sy$teMF, I know you ment well","article":"Sy$teMF, I know you ment well, but you left out some details: \r\n1> The Maccabeans were JEWS.\r\n\r\n2> In 1000 BCE King David purchased from Araunah the Jebusite, the last in the line of Jebusite (the tiny nation which resided in and controlled Jerusalem before King David captured and turned it into an Israelite area) kings the latter's threshing floor (2 Samuel, chapter 24, 20-25, Old Testament). The biblical narrative notwithstanding, the practical implication is King David actually bought Jerusalem from the Jebusites! So Jerusalem became Israelite property.\r\nAlso, do you really think all those conquerors cared so much for the city, much less wanted it as their capital? No! The Jewish people were the only nation who ever had it as capital city; even when it was occupied by foreign invaders and Jews weren't in control, they never ceased considering it a capital and aspired to regain and remake it capital city. This cannot be said of any other nation. This has remained so for 3003 years now...And which other religion even as much as tried purchasing Jerusalem?? Zilch.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 04:37:34","modified":"2003-06-19 04:37:34","fileurl":""},{"id":65483,"heading":"Concerning ".." by ".."","article":"Well done. Let me add to this that considering Islam's nature, any individual of reasonable intelligence would be compelled to conclude most Arabs and Moslims would have yearned to regain Mecca and Medina in the event a similar fate to Jerusalem's over the centuries befell them, at least as much as most Jews have been longing to regain control of their holy city. Don't forget Jews have never forbade gentiles from entering Jerusalem whereas Muslims always forbid Kaffirs from setting foot in their 2 holy cities. Gotta hand it to them to prove Islamic "tolerance". \r\n\r\nFurthermore, the Muslims have shown interest in and considered Jerusalem a holy Muslim zone only when someone else was ruling it, most notably Jews. conversely, at periods when Muslims controlled it, their religious and political interest nearly hit the floor. \r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 04:57:40","modified":"2003-06-19 04:57:40","fileurl":""},{"id":65485,"heading":"Fersca, to answer your 1st posting:","article":"Let me answer seriously: the gentile Sharon bashers wouldn't give a whit if Sharon were black and wouldn't let him off the hook, because the cardinal point is his Jewishness. You know, there are many black Ethiopian Jews in Israel. Anyone of them would have been hated if one were in Sharon's place.\r\n\r\n>>I think that's it. Israel is an extention of the US, so the theory goes, and since we are simply puppets of RICH WHITE GUYS then Israel must be selfish racist bastards as well. \r\n\r\nYou're right on the money with this one. \r\n\r\n>>That and, some of you are simply Jew haters. \r\n\r\nRight again. Most of them are at least closet Jew haters.\r\n\r\n>>The "palestinians" should be damn glad their "oppressors" are "WHITE" and Jewish, otherwise no one around here would have ever heard of them.\r\n\r\nI won't hold my breath to hear\/see their gratitude for it. I'd like to give my 2 cents about the Arabs' future in general and "Palestinian" future in particular: in a bit under a century from now, all the oil pools underneith Arab lands will dry up, ending their petroliem blackmail capacity. In the interim, they might wipe Israel out and massacre all its Jews. In his case, they will have gained "Palestinian" independence. But if this won't happen, the US might finally decide to kick the collective "Palestinian" as out of the Land of Israel and establish a state for them in Jordan. The diligent reader will notice I've already discussed this above. It'll be practicle because all the Arabists in Foggy Bottom will lose their raison d'etre.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 05:25:17","modified":"2003-06-19 05:25:17","fileurl":""},{"id":65486,"heading":"The question of right mindedness","article":"I forget who made the original quote, but I think it applies here......\r\n\r\nAn ideology is a closed system; there is nothing an ideology cannot explain. A closed system removes all doubts. It confers the armor of righteousness on those who believe, and shoves into outer darkness those who do not. The result is war."\u00a0 ","author":"Sy$teMF@iLuRe","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 05:44:30","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:10","fileurl":""},{"id":65492,"heading":"HERE'S TO DICKHEAD","article":">>You're a disgrace to all big nosed people. Try looking at your listings jewbag before asking others to be more original. What does the truth have to do with you. Nobody has ever accused a jew of being a liar, or a thief or a cheat or penny pinching......... \r\n\r\nHere you go folks, this knucklehead is actually dubbing Jews "big nosed people". How he knows I'm big nosed is beyond me. \r\n\r\n>>When a discussion takes place it is the TRUTH that matters not originality. See that's where ur fucking up but then your jewish.\r\n\r\nHe pretends to give a shit about truth, this arch falsehood spouter. The 2nd sentence is an affront to myself, Dio and all other Jews reading his comments. (Though I don't take it personally.)\r\n\r\n>>"Maybe you don't give a damn about how oppressed the Iraqi people and the Afghanis were under Saddam Insane and the Taliban, respectively. Their forceful removal was the only way of bettering these peoples' lots". This motherfuckers a liar and a hypocrite. wow from everything that Jewbag has written so far it is so painfully clear he feels so much for all Arabs and muslims. im sure you must be heartbroken. \r\n\r\nThis dickhead hasn't even tried suggesting an alternative in the way of improving the Iraqis' and afghanis' fortunes.\r\n\r\n>>The next time you find something incorrect try attaching a link to some place where we can see your version of the truth a.k.a another lie.. Oh my bad the truth stands up for itself and doesnt need any "quotations" to support it. Which public is he talking about. This fools on crack. Hes making sweeping statements and doesnt have shit to show for it. HEY CRACKHEAD did U carry out these surveys yourself, where your talking of the public "knowing or becoming aware" \r\n\r\nIt's not so much my being on crack like you are using a psychological self defense mechanism of denial. Perhaps I should go and try using crack, it's not as bad as being in a perpetual state of denial as you're in. Dickhead, I'm exercising my rights under the 1st amendment and will debate as I see fit. If you dislike it, you're more than welcome to shut your trap, i.e. stop addressing me. Oh, and he's probably been his entire life in the Berkley milieu of all the hyper-Liberals (what he considers "public"), he probably never stuck his head out his confined Liberal environment. \r\n\r\n>>Neturei Karta...Once again you read the article. Why dont you counter their claims? its because you cant can U? \r\n\r\nOur favorite dickhead expects my to quote their site line by line or paragraph by paragraph and write rebuttals...poor thing, he's unable to appreciate the logic in what I've written. \r\n\r\n>>"You should keep your tired old false myths, lies, melodrama and excessive cynicism to yourself. I'm not conned by this crap, nor are many others". listen man sounds to me like your getting desperate ;) dont get other people involved. This discussion is between me and you. Your not a mind reader so dont speak for other people. Come on baby lets talk. Oh yeah and everything i am saying is sooooo incorrect and everything your saying must be the truth cuz I dont know.... ur the chosen one or people or whatever. \r\n\r\nCockhead is deluding himself I'm getting desperate. That's something being played out only in his dick excuse for a mind. As for involving others - I've already said I'll bebate as I want; if you don't like it you can fuck off. He's so envious of the Chosen People...maybe he's among the People Chosen for Damnation by Virtue of Their Stupidity.\r\n\r\n>>[fresca, daveman, Bushadmirer] Hey Crack Head I dont agree with what their saying either. why dont you go back and try reading what I have written in response to their posts...\r\n\r\nOh, let me see, if cockhead disagrees with them, he reckons it reflects poorly on me... . But in response, I've already read your responses to them and found 99.999999% of the logic therein to be bullshit.\r\n\r\n>> You might have some facts but no skills at putting them across. \r\n\r\nIt's dumbfounding to read he's willing to concede I "might have some facts". I'm awestruck. One thing is certain, this dickhead puts his anal rhetoric across with flying colors.\r\n\r\n>>With a nose as big as yours u need to be twice or three times as careful as the normal crackhead cuz with each sniff you probably take in 9 times as much SNORTER. \r\n\r\nDear readers, remember the caution in the end of my original message? I spoke of anti-Semitic garbage which would be rained down on me by "his dick-iness" Omar. And sure enough it's happening. The cat's out of the bag :-). So much for his distinguishing between Zionists and "mere" Jews. That filth of his is an offense to every Jew reading his trash. I think every Jew here should chastise our dickhead for it.\r\n\r\n>>"As far as international law is concerned, Judea, Samaria & the Gaza strip have been disputed territories as of June 1967 notwithstanding your semantic acrobatics." what were these territories before the first world war, after and before 1948? Just answer the question. Dont give me an explanation. just answer the question. \r\n\r\nThis fuckwit has deliberately ignored that I've already outlined the legal status of Judea, Samaria & the Gaza strip during 1949-June 1967 in another posting, because he can't handle the truth, just as daveman said he wouldn't be able to. Our cockhead possibly whined to himself to the effect I've never laid out those facts. He obviously won't give a crap about my statement, but I'll tell everyone else: from international law's standpoint, before 1918 (when Britain ended the Ottoman a.k.a Turkish rule over Palestine) those territories were an integral part of Palestine, thet didn't have any legal status apart from all of Palestine's legal status. The Turkish Ottoman empire ruled Palestine (just one trivia detail: the Jews were reffering to Palestine as the Land of Israel, in Hebrew). Same thing with the period since WWI ended until May 1948. It's interesting to see our dickhead suddenly doesn't want to read an explanation - he has an abrupt impulse to read only bare facts with nothing to support them.\r\n\r\n>>Obviously your not coming across as very clever otherwise I would not have needed to explain the UN to you. \r\n\r\nI can't wait to read how he defends the anti-Semitic Durban hate-fest.\r\n\r\n>>Man this man has no links, no arguments, talks like hes an expert (riiiight) doesnt offer proof for his arguments and is now discrediting Thomas Friedman and the New York Times. Usually when people come up with stuff that they cant prove or site sources for it is known as fiction Jewbag. \r\n\r\nThis indoctrinated or self-indoctrinated liberal bleeding heart is deluding himself thinking that most or at least half of all the at-least-resonably intelligent Americans don't know the facts about the New York Times. As always, he resorts to the "links" hysteria, thinking I must employ links and other sources to discredit Friedman and that paper, inspite of all the facts that are there for any individual wanting to learn them. Yet he considers every utterance of Mr. Friedman on Israel\/Jews\/"Palestinians" holy writ, WITHOUT trying to offer any proof to validate the quote he gleaned from his quotation book. He swoops on such utterances like they were catch. It has never occurred to our cockhead, who demands Zionist Jews to cite every possible source that he must put his money where his mouth is. He knows how to talk the talk yet can't walk the walk. Is this not so, LOSER?? ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 07:24:59","modified":"2003-06-19 07:24:59","fileurl":""},{"id":65493,"heading":"Omar and Japanese land purchases","article":"Omar wrote on Tuesday June 17, 2003 11:19 PM, quote: \r\n\r\n>>the Japanese bought a lot of the land in the US in the 1980s, you dont see them claiming that this country is a colony of theirs do U. Buying a corner plot doesnt give U sovereignity over that land. \r\n\r\nThis knucklehead is incapable of understanding Jews came to Palestine not as nationals of other nations or countries but as mere Jews ("Zionists") and that they didn't go there in a quest to gain their native countries an ethnic or political foothold, and that those Japanese had done it for business purposes, they never had designs of gaining Japanese autonomy or establishing any other Japanese national entity in the States. But When Jews headed for Palestine to settle there for good ("making 'Aliyah'") they psychologically parted with their native nationality,if not also in practice. It was brilliant on his part to leave out the part that the Arabs in Palestine, boasting a political movement by far inferior to that of the Jews, certainly weren't entitled to sovereignity - by his ownstandards. \r\nKnucklehead, you've got to learn to get your analogies together. You're doing very poor in that department. Keep up with your delusions and denial of facts unfavorable to you.\r\n\r\n>>Give me time Fresca I know you fighting for my attention but I can deal with only one scum at a time and Jewbag is the biggest scum so im dealing with him first. I havent forgotten about you ;)\r\n\r\nDickhead is beginning to feel the heat. Why can't he deal with one than more peron at a time, isn't he resourceful enough to muster enough cacophonic rhetoric to shoot at numerous people in a single session? ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 16:33:45","modified":"2003-06-19 16:33:45","fileurl":""},{"id":65554,"heading":"Gosh, "Jewboy"...","article":"...you mean...and I can hardly type it...Omar hates Jews?\r\n\r\nGasp!\r\n\r\nCheer up. I'm sure it's nothing personal. He wouldn't dance any more joyfully if he learned you were killed by a homicide bomber than any other Jew.\r\n\r\nGeez...he'd make guards at Treblinka say, "Holy cow, fellah...you really hate Jews, don't you?"","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-19 22:09:38","modified":"2003-06-19 22:09:38","fileurl":""},{"id":65594,"heading":"Just wait","article":""Sy$teMF, I know you ment well\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Wednesday June 18, 2003 12:37 AM\r\n"\r\n\r\n\r\nWon't you be surprised. SFailure makes Omar look like a rabbi.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 00:01:19","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:10","fileurl":""},{"id":65602,"heading":"it makes my day...","article":"just to know I got under your skin you fucking faggot jewbag foreskin... Ill get back to you soon enough... 1st amendment rights... :D that is so pathertic.. Try the fifth buddy you might not look as stupid ;) Wait for my reply :D.. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 00:23:22","modified":"2003-06-20 00:23:22","fileurl":""},{"id":65605,"heading":"WOW","article":""fucking faggot jewbag foreskin"\r\n\r\nNice work! And from a paki no less.\r\nOmar, you've outdone yourself. Really.\r\nYour arguments have always been dismissed as nonsense and fantasies out of hand, but now you've demoted yourself to purely a figure of fun.\r\n\r\nScore one for the "peace loving" muslim!","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 00:26:40","modified":"2003-06-20 00:26:40","fileurl":""},{"id":65606,"heading":"By the way","article":"Still waiting omar.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 00:28:50","modified":"2003-06-20 00:28:50","fileurl":""},{"id":65613,"heading":"There should be a limit on posts on this thing... ?","article":"Jew bag get a fucking job... hehehe :D you have entirely too much time on your hands... wait for my reply :D it will be here soon enough. I think ull like it :D... unless ur paying to be here ... which would explain a lot... ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 00:52:34","modified":"2003-06-20 00:52:34","fileurl":""},{"id":65617,"heading":"FresCOW","article":"you crack me up U CRACK WHORE :D (pun intended :P) isnt it obvious I dont give a shit what U and the rest of the Israeli Brady bunch think. By the way you should get a job too. Are you always on this thing? Get a fucking life. Now im really sure ur a fat corn eating heiffer. I will get back to all of u but not at your pace. At my pace. Now please excuse me I do have a life to live :D hehehe LOSERS...","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 00:59:17","modified":"2003-06-20 00:59:17","fileurl":""},{"id":65618,"heading":"Hehehe","article":"Omar, you couldn't possibly care MORE about what we think. We gotcha. That's what's so much fun. Seeing you get all worked up when you every nonsensical racist diatribe is trounced.\r\n\r\nNow get back to that 7-11 and pull me a Slurpee.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 01:02:22","modified":"2003-06-20 01:02:22","fileurl":""},{"id":65620,"heading":"FresCOW","article":""pull you a slurpee"\r\n\r\nthats pretty funny... How about I just pull down my pants and let you earn enough money for your next hit ;) ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 01:13:19","modified":"2003-06-20 01:13:19","fileurl":""},{"id":65633,"heading":"So Omar","article":"What's your take on the Hama massacre?","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 02:07:47","modified":"2003-06-20 02:07:47","fileurl":""},{"id":65663,"heading":"Dicky Omar,","article":"when I read your foreskin drivel, even you surprised me, you pitiful ignoramus... . I mean, at the moment you had an acute urge to floor us with a rhyme. Anyone capable of dangling such balderdash couldn't ever get under my skin.\r\n\r\nNow I see you're doing quite a fine job yourself at taking the 5th...keep it up. As I initially stressed, I won't hold my breath. You're really not much of a challenge. Perhaps you should switch to another site or chatroom where the interlocutors are more ignorant than yourself.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 03:57:58","modified":"2003-06-20 03:57:58","fileurl":""},{"id":65667,"heading":"More about UN response to atrocities","article":"Earlier, Omar said: "When member states commit attrocities the UN is supposed to take action." He either had been brainwashed (he bothered telling us he's Pakistani, so it's an excellent bet he's inundated with Pakistani anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish propaganda) that it is Israel as an entity which always commits atrocities, or he overlooked my previous assertion that it is individuals or small groups of Jews who have committed atrocities in Judea, Samaria & the Gaza strip and are comdemned almost in unison by Israelis. But the paramount fact to bear in mind is the perpetrators are put on trial and punished. The UN is supposed, as far as memory serves me, to take action against member states only when they themselves commit atrocities or when they fail to penalize citizens who commit them on their initiative.\r\n\r\nFurthermore, contrast Israel's justice system with the "Palestinian": these Arabs commit atrocities daily but are hardly ever brought to justice by the PA to stand trial in their kangaroo courts. Even the condemnations coming from various "Palestinian" spokespeople concerning atrocities by their brethren are always contingent on condemning also those from the Israeli side (!): "I'm condemning this criminal act and others committed against the 'settlers' JUST AS I condemn 'Zionist' atrocities against our people".","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 06:07:23","modified":"2003-06-20 06:07:23","fileurl":""},{"id":65683,"heading":"little Jewboy","article":"no please I beg you.. do hold your breath. I told U ill get back to you soon enough... in the meantime Ill let you go get that job you were thinking of getting and like I said wait for my reply .... you poor little thing .... now ur an expert on "pakistani propaganda" too.... you just happen to know everything about everything dont you.... you should have been the Oracle in the Matrix film motherfucker ...... forget Disney you should start your own company called La La land.... ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 09:12:40","modified":"2003-06-20 09:12:40","fileurl":""},{"id":65685,"heading":"hey fascist fresca","article":"why you gotta talk shit bitch?\r\nAll you do is stir up mindless meaningless conjecture and never offer any solutions to any problems.\r\nEveryone here thinks your a joke.\r\nYou think Im a jew hater?\r\nEat shit and die.\r\nI seek to find a solution to the problem by provoking people to think.\r\nYou think because i am anti zionist i hate jews\r\nthat is bullshit.\r\nYou are the only totalitarian fuckhead here.\r\nI love all people and wish to end the mindless violence that has corrupted the middle east.\r\nIt is a question of two extremist factions forcing thier will \r\nupon a religious public.\r\nand you laugh.......\r\nfuck you bitch....\r\nAnYtImE.....","author":"Sy$teMF@iLuRe","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 09:16:36","modified":"2003-06-20 09:16:36","fileurl":""},{"id":65689,"heading":"Sy$teMF,","article":"As to fresca, I just wanna take exception to your 3rd line. \r\n\r\nI for one do not.\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 09:39:36","modified":"2003-06-20 09:39:36","fileurl":""},{"id":65696,"heading":"BACK TO THE GODDAM POINT","article":"no matter how much spam obfuscatio from our mole fresca=jewboy=daveman=bushadmirer etc on and on with the self-multis:\r\n\r\nthe author of the original post has aptly shown how sharon and the likud created hamas to sabotage the plo and peace - as shown by the fact that sharon never targets hamas leader yassini for a targeted assassination and let rantisi flee from the fake attempt on his life.","author":"BACK TO THE GODDAM POINT","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 10:52:31","modified":"2003-06-20 10:52:31","fileurl":""},{"id":65703,"heading":"Damn point indeed","article":"No matter how many times you repeat these lies, they'll never be taken for more than the genuine spam they are. However, if you repeat them often enough elsewhere, you might win converts to your theories. It won't happen here. If they were worthy of discussion, everyone would have focused solely on them. \r\n\r\nWhat you're really trying to do is malign Sharon at any cost. You may succeed somewhere else.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 11:22:44","modified":"2003-06-20 11:22:44","fileurl":""},{"id":65715,"heading":""jewboy" the liar","article":"either ya got counterarguments or else shut the fuck up and go back to sucking bush's dick.","author":""jewboy" the liar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 12:30:39","modified":"2003-06-20 12:30:39","fileurl":""},{"id":65718,"heading":"SMUT SMUT SMUT","article":"Can't you be just a tiny-winnie bit more original?\r\nYou've been using that tired "either-or" sentence since day 1 and it won't further your cause any more than it has. Myself, I'm getting really bored by you. Seems like desperate people abhor originality. I'm tiring even from exhortations to suck cock.\r\n\r\nYAWN","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 12:40:40","modified":"2003-06-20 12:40:40","fileurl":""},{"id":65726,"heading":"jewboy still refuses to reply","article":"...could it be that he can't?","author":"jewboy still refuses to reply","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 13:05:01","modified":"2003-06-20 13:05:01","fileurl":""},{"id":65739,"heading":"Jews behind everythin","article":"Jews, behind Hamas yeah that sounds right, I don't need any conformation. I also read somewhere that the Jews also started the Nazi movement. And since we all know they attacked us on 9-11. Every problem in the world can now be blamed on the Jews. Best of all, even if Hamas refuses to show it respects Israel's right to exist; and has no desire to make peace. (what we hate Sharon for) We can blame it all on the Jews. I love the world of hate, no need to think, just blame everything on the Jews. And if anyone doesn't like what I am saying, well then a Jew made me do it.","author":"Let's all hate the Jews","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 13:41:58","modified":"2003-06-20 13:41:58","fileurl":""},{"id":65750,"heading":"9:41 the assmole","article":"do you have any counterarguments to sharon=hamas as aptly shown by the original poster who quotes the orthodox jew daniel kurtzer an by the fact of sharon never targeting sheikh yassin for assassination - or else shut the fuck up and go give sharon another blowjob.","author":"9:41 the asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 13:58:43","modified":"2003-06-20 13:58:43","fileurl":""},{"id":65807,"heading":"cloak and dagger will you please","article":"...provide us with sourcing + original link for your interesting post?","author":"cloack and dagger will you please","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 15:09:42","modified":"2003-06-20 15:09:42","fileurl":""},{"id":65835,"heading":"another good source","article":"...for hamas\/sharon and the reflection on the sionist american media:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/sf.indymedia.org\/print.php?id=1619504","author":"another good source","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 15:49:56","modified":"2003-06-20 15:49:56","fileurl":""},{"id":65885,"heading":"well if daniel kurtzer said it...","article":"...THEN IT MUST BE TRUE:SHARON=HAMAS!!!!!!!","author":"SHARON=HAMAS","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 17:47:50","modified":"2003-06-20 17:47:50","fileurl":""},{"id":65907,"heading":"KOBE","article":"We hate Muslims. Join us.\r\n\r\n","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 18:20:21","modified":"2003-06-20 18:20:21","fileurl":""},{"id":65934,"heading":"sissie","article":""I seek to find a solution to the problem by provoking people to think."\r\n\r\nYes, these comments of yours are very thought-provoking:\r\n\r\n"why you gotta talk shit bitch?"\r\n\r\n"Eat shit and die."\r\n\r\n"You are the only totalitarian fuckhead here. "\r\n\r\n"fuck you bitch"\r\n\r\nYes, you've made me think.\r\n\r\nI think you're an idiot. ","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 21:24:51","modified":"2003-06-20 21:24:51","fileurl":""},{"id":65960,"heading":"enough of this nonsense","article":"The spirit and absurd implication of the original post notwithstanding, I'll now poke a few holes in this self indulgent and openly racist tripe.\r\n\r\n"Daniel Kurtzer made the connection between the growth of the Islamic fundamentalist groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and Israel's promotion of the Islamic movement as a counter to the Palestinian nationalist movement."\r\n\r\nIn as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not.\r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. "\r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No.\r\n\r\n"On one level the support for Hamas is simply the application of the old saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Indeed, in the minds of crude Israeli ultra-nationalists and fascists such as Sharon and his faction, this is indeed the case. Sharon is not interested in peace and therefore is not concerned that the violence and needless deaths of Israelis and Palestinians continue."\r\n\r\nClassic. All of a sudden Sharon is a peace-hating fascist and Israeli nationalist freedom fighters are "crude". Not the "palestinians" or hamas which have systematically derailed every peace process and continue to wage a war simply due to the fact that they hate another groups religion. And this is all some grand scheme of the Jews. More nonsense.\r\n\r\nBasically, the "author" would have us swallow the following:\r\n\r\nIsrael, at one point, supported the Islamic movement in "palestine" because it would weaken Arafats power base. Then...the author seems to leave this HUGE leap out of the equation...hamas and the other subhuman Islamic murder groups in "plaestine" start mysteriously blowing up in discos and busses. This was all part of the original plan, gowing back to at least 1973. The typist of the original post points to the phrase "not totally unrelated" as concrete proof of Israel designing a team of assasins with ALL Jews as the target. \r\nRight.\r\n\r\nI will agree with one thing however. The implication which cannot be avoided is that Israel's main crime was to allow the fermentation of the clearly barbaric Islamic fundamentalist movement. This nascent weed should have been ground down long ago. Israel's own tolerance of other religions has turned out to be it's greatest liability.\r\n\r\nNow, there it is. In as much as Israel chose not to kill ALL of the murderous islamic terrorists before they had a chance to breed is the extent to which they are responsible for hamas.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-20 23:01:27","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:12","fileurl":""},{"id":65983,"heading":"racist ass","article":""This nascent weed should have been ground\r\n down long ago. Israel's own tolerance of other religions has turned out to be it's\r\n greatest liability. \r\n\r\n Now, there it is. In as much as Israel chose not to kill ALL of the murderous\r\n islamic terrorists before they had a chance to breed is the extent to which they are\r\n responsible for hamas." \r\n\r\nHow charming.\r\n","author":"breed this","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 00:03:08","modified":"2003-06-21 00:03:08","fileurl":""},{"id":65988,"heading":"Now just wait one minute mister","article":"""This nascent weed should have been ground \r\ndown long ago. Israel's own tolerance of other religions has turned out to be it's \r\ngreatest liability. \r\n\r\nNow, there it is. In as much as Israel chose not to kill ALL of the murderous \r\nislamic terrorists before they had a chance to breed is the extent to which they are \r\nresponsible for hamas." \r\n\r\nTell me you aren't actually sticking up for these scumbags. There is nothing racist about praying for the slow death of an organized murderous hate group like hamas.\r\n\r\nYou need to pick your heroes more carefully animal.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 00:17:45","modified":"2003-06-21 00:17:45","fileurl":""},{"id":66014,"heading":"fresca wrong as usual","article":">>Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel.<<\r\n\r\nthis is what the original post said.\r\n\r\n"tacit SUPPORT",FRESCA. support.\r\nlearn to read.\r\n\r\nand: the most striking evidence that sharon protects hamas is his never getting yassin withhis targeted assassinations.\r\n\r\nto which you don't respond.\r\n\r\ncould il be that you can't?\r\n\r\n\r\njust like bush never seems to get osama or saddam etc.\r\n\r\nperpetual war needs excuses.you don't kill the excuses do ya when biz is so good.","author":"fresca wrong on all fronts","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 14:07:11","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:13","fileurl":""},{"id":66017,"heading":"DICKHEADS NEVER LEARN","article":"To the "9:41 the assmole" and "SHARON=HAMAS" cowards: \r\n\r\n(quotes)\r\n>>sharon=hamas as aptly shown by the original poster who quotes the orthodox jew daniel kurtzer and by the fact of sharon never targeting sheikh yassin for assassination - or else shut the fuck up and go give sharon another blowjob.\r\n>>well if daniel kurtzer said it...THEN IT MUST BE TRUE:SHARON=HAMAS!!!!!!!\r\n\r\nYou're too damn ignorant and stupid to realize a Jew's religious denomination doesn't bind him to a right wing political outlook. Mr. Kurtzer has been left wing as far back as the 1970s at least. He supports the extreme Israeli non-parliamentary left wing movement "Peace Now" which is Left to Labor. And when Mr. Begin came to the US on his first visit as Prime Mininster, Mr. Kurtzer refused to even shake hands with him. \r\n\r\nFresca had aptly demolished your arguments. He and I have shown that your concept of what constitutes facts, truth and proof wouldn't stand up even in a kangaroo court. If you can't accept fresca's explanations and reasoning then you're an imbecile of the highest order. So go both of you to Jimmy Carter and Clinton and give them each a thorough blowjob. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 14:17:58","modified":"2003-06-21 14:17:58","fileurl":""},{"id":66020,"heading":"uh, Mr. jewboy","article":"Can you bottle the acid just a toutch? It's tiresome.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 14:30:25","modified":"2003-06-21 14:30:25","fileurl":""},{"id":66022,"heading":"jewboy the dork","article":"the fact that kurtzer may be left-wing does not imply he's not telling the truth anout sharon=hamas.\r\n\r\nit's called elementary logic,asshole.\r\n\r\nand if you have no counterarguments neither your alter ego "fresca",then why doesn't bush fire you?\r\n\r\nhe can sure afford a better troll!","author":"jewboy the dork","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 14:37:56","modified":"2003-06-21 14:37:56","fileurl":""},{"id":66029,"heading":"fresca,","article":"you wrote, quote:\r\n\r\n<< The implication which cannot be avoided is that Israel's main crime was to allow the fermentation of the clearly barbaric Islamic fundamentalist movement. This nascent weed should have been ground down long ago. Israel's own tolerance of other religions has turned out to be it's greatest liability. \r\n\r\nCollectively, we Jews have a deep seated problem - too often we're naive to the point of gullibility. The Israelis hadn't done their homework prior to nurturing an Islamic movement as an alternative to PLO - they didn't take into account Islam's negating outlook concering Jews. \r\n\r\nThe reluctance to stamp out these Islamic wild weeds, even nowadays, betrays another deep seated Jewish problem: modern day Jews do not go as far as wiping out an entire population unless it's engaged in full fledged war as a regular army. When it comes to warring, Jews have a very distinctively "defensive" orientation. Theirs is not an "offensive" one. Many people on the planet are perplexed by Israel's reluctence in this case and many others, with excellent reason. This Jewish trait is an anomaly whose origins are historical and religious - after the Jewish defeat in the 135 AD, the Rabbis decided Jews should never revolt against the Romans again. This had become popular with the Jews in Palestine and increasingly made sense when their numbers dwindled further. But later on it had also become a deep seated and self defeating habit. Most of the Jews lived then in other lands, so they obviously never got form a Jewish army until the 20th century. But, had this problem arisen between 140 BCE and 66 BCE, when Jews had independence, and the present military technology had been around at that period, I bet my life the Jews would have inihalated them so fast other peoples' heads would spin. \r\n\r\nAll those "cloack and dagger" theories stem out of either ignorance vis-a-vis the collective Jewish psyche as I've outlined above or refusal to accept my above explanation, or both. A refusal to learn and accept such facts is an exercise in anti-Semitism. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 15:07:31","modified":"2003-06-21 15:07:31","fileurl":""},{"id":66032,"heading":"jewboy screws up again","article":"no need for jew-massmurderer sharon to wipe out all pal\u00f2estinians - he'd just need to wipe out 1:sheikh yassin.\r\n\r\ngame over.\r\n\r\nbut no - they do not want the war game over .- too profitable.\r\n\r\nso yassin roams free and the violence created by sharon prospers on.\r\n\r\nwith colin's blessing.\r\n\r\nplease stop your fake dialogues with your self-multiplied moniker "fresca" - you're pathetic.","author":"jewboy screws up again","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 15:18:54","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:14","fileurl":""},{"id":66033,"heading":"TO CLOACK AND DAGGER:","article":"Someone has already asked you twice now to provide us all with the source and original link for your initial post. I think it's a very reasonable request and my curiosity has also arisen. \r\n\r\nFor some unknown reason you refuse to do so. Do you fear the implications of giving them away or somethin'? I'm hereby joining the appeal and calling on you to\r\nPROVIDE US WITH SOURCING + ORIGINAL LINK FOR YOUR INTERESTING POST. \r\nPROVIDE US WITH SOURCING + ORIGINAL LINK FOR YOUR INTERESTING POST. \r\nPROVIDE US WITH SOURCING + ORIGINAL LINK FOR YOUR INTERESTING POST. \r\nPROVIDE US WITH SOURCING + ORIGINAL LINK FOR YOUR INTERESTING POST. \r\nPROVIDE US WITH SOURCING + ORIGINAL LINK FOR YOUR INTERESTING POST. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 15:21:19","modified":"2003-06-21 15:21:19","fileurl":""},{"id":66037,"heading":"for once i agree with jewboy","article":"cloak and dagger might be away or on vacation or whatever...\r\n\r\nanyway does anyone know where this original andromidas article originally appeared?\r\n\r\nhow about a google search jewboy mele?\r\n\r\nI'm sure bush provides you moleys with nexis and shit...\r\n\r\ncome on find this source for us and give us the link,so we can keep on firing on each other on a more solid basis.\r\n\r\nthanx in advance.I know your joining the request was not preposterous or was it....so show how serious you are.\r\n\r\ncheerio.","author":"i agrre with jewboy but...","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 15:40:18","modified":"2003-06-21 15:40:18","fileurl":""},{"id":66038,"heading":"To the screwie from 11:18 AM:","article":"At least your request was polite. But I decline. \r\n\r\nTruth of the matter is you and your ilk on this discussion are the quintessential pitifuls. I see you also spelled "pal\u00f2estinians" - you're probably European, not American at any rate. You're obsessed with Sharon. How about Begin, Shamir, Netanyahu? Get a life, loser. \r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 15:43:28","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:14","fileurl":""},{"id":66039,"heading":"jewboy screwboy","article":"I didn't know there was a european spelling for palestinian...your pseudolinguistics don't belong in my neckadawoods...\r\n\r\nI'm not obsessed with sharon - it's just sharon is the issue here whether you like it or not and no matter how many times you try to obfuscate the point:\r\n\r\nSHARON=HAMAS,just like bush never gets osama etc.","author":"jewboy screwboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 15:52:52","modified":"2003-06-21 15:52:52","fileurl":""},{"id":66042,"heading":"here comes the original source","article":"...jewboy's non-collaboration notwithstanding,here's the original source for the andromidas article:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/globalresearch.ca\/articles\/AND204A.html\r\n\r\nwhich in turn will link you on to a load of great sharon=hamas essays.\r\n\r\nthanx google.fuck you jewboy.","author":"here comes the source","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 16:09:13","modified":"2003-06-21 16:09:13","fileurl":""},{"id":66043,"heading":"Screwyou","article":"If you say Sharon is the issue, screwie, you must leave Osama and Hussein out. You've further obfuscated even your own morbid "point" beyond the point of murkiness. You must put your money where your mouth is, sissie. \r\n\r\nAs for forming equations, you don't know how to. The only logical one is SCREWIE=HAMAS.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 16:14:21","modified":"2003-06-21 16:14:21","fileurl":""},{"id":66045,"heading":"jewboy out of arguments","article":"you're wrong again hairsplitta:\r\n\r\ngovt terror is a global phenomenon in which sharon bush and blair plus their little satellites collaborate hand in glove - therefore it is perfectly legitimate to illustrate and explain how sharon uses yassin as a tool with the bush\/osama or bush\/saddam example.\r\n\r\none more thing:\r\n\r\nI think that if yassin osama saddam and the rest of them thugs haven't understood the neme of the game in 30 years or 25,then it's one of the 2:\r\n\r\nEITHER THEY ARE COMPLETE IDIOTS - OR,MORE LIKELY,THEY ARE CIA AGENTS PROVOCATEURS.","author":"jewboy out of arguments","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 16:20:41","modified":"2003-06-21 16:20:41","fileurl":""},{"id":66046,"heading":"here's some more","article":"backup linkography for sharon=hamas:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/globalresearch.ca\/articles\/SZA204A.html\r\n\r\n","author":"here's some more","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 16:29:13","modified":"2003-06-21 16:29:13","fileurl":""},{"id":66049,"heading":"Your darling, Dean Andromidas","article":"I've begun learning about Dean Andromidas. He's a journalist with the Executive Intelligence Review, a magazine published by CONSPIRACY THEORIST Lyndon LaRouche.\r\n\r\nThis is the first clue to suggest we're bickering over one of the "writings" of a bunch of paranoids who see conspiracies everywhere and conjure them into any issue they want when the mood strikes. \r\nBut I don't think this detail and others will enlighten people of your preoccupation, or at the very least make you start questioning Dean Andromidas's motives and thruthfulness.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 16:44:42","modified":"2003-06-21 16:44:42","fileurl":""},{"id":66055,"heading":"Quotes from Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.","article":"Here's a brief collection of LaRouche's morbid "pearls of wisdom":\r\n\r\n1. About Judaism: "Judaism is the religion of a caste of subjects of Christianity, entirely molded by ingenious rabbis to fit into the ideological and secular life of Christianity. In short, a selfsustaining Judaism never existed and never could exist. As for Jewish culture otherwise, it is merely the residue left to the Jewish home after everything saleable has been marketed to the Goyim." \r\n\r\n- "The Case of Ludwig Feuerbach", Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr., (under pen name L. Marcus), The Campaigner, December 1973 \r\n\r\n"America must be cleansed for its righteous war by the immediate elimination of the Nazi Jewish Lobby and other British agents from the councils of government, industry, and labor." \r\n\r\n- "A War-winning Strategy", Editorial, New Solidarity, March 1978 \r\n\r\n2. About Israelis: "Israelis. Can one punish sheep for being sheep? The Israelis have behaved with monstrous, worse-than-Nazi bestiality. But are not sheep bestial? Are not the Israelis behaving with the bestiality of terrified sheep, driven to homicidal psychosis by their won bestial fears? What can be done with such bestial Israelis, except to transform them from bestial sheep, to take them out of the kibbutz sheep-pens of psychosis, and employ the method of the Platonic dialogue to transform them into genuine men and women of reason?" \r\n\r\n- "Despite What Israel Has Done" Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr., The Campaigner, March 1978 \r\n\r\n3. About Zionism: "Zionism is the state of collective psychosis through which London manipulates most of international Jewry." \r\n\r\n- "Zionism Is Not Judaism" Editorial, The Campaigner, December 1978 \r\n\r\n4. Adolf Adolf Hitler: "The first, and most important fact to be recognized concerning the Hitler regime, is that Adolf Hitler was put into power in Germany on orders from London. The documentation of this matter is abundant and conclusive." \r\n\r\n- "Humboldt Versus Hitler", Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr., The Campaigner, August 1978 \r\n\r\n5. The Beatles: "The Beatles had no genuine musical talent, but were a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division (Tavistock) specifications, and promoted in Britain by agencies which are controlled by British intelligence." \r\n\r\n- "Why Your Child Became A Drug Addict" Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr., Campaigner Special Report, Copyright 1978 \r\n\r\n6. About Jazz: "Jazz was foisted on black Americans by the same oligarchy which had run the U.S. slave trade, with the help of the classically trained but immoral George Gershwin and the Paris-New York circuit of drug-taking avant-garde artists." \r\n\r\n- "The Racist Roots of Jazz", Back Cover, The Campaigner, September-October 1980\r\n\r\n* Remark: Gershwin was a JEWISH composer. \r\n\r\n* Comment: LaRouche is also EIR's founding editor.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 17:28:58","modified":"2003-06-21 17:28:58","fileurl":""},{"id":66081,"heading":"TO THE OBSESSION ADICTS:","article":"I think you all have subscriptions to the EIR magazine. Either that or you're all Larouche groupies. Perhaps "Cloack and dagger" is your clique leader because he uploaded the article here. \r\n\r\nIn any rate, the theory being touted by this article that you consider as gospel doesn't hold water. I'll never be convinced. I'm gleaning more details about Larouche and everything is beginning to make sense to me, like why you talk about Bush, Osama, Hussein etc. in the same beath you mention Sharon. \r\n\r\nI haven't heard yet from you, cowards. Just answer me one question now, would ya? Why have you fallen silent? ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 19:20:51","modified":"2003-06-21 19:20:51","fileurl":""},{"id":66107,"heading":"I wouldn't believe Lyndon LaRouche...","article":"...if he said the sun rises in the east.\r\n\r\nThe man is certifiable.\r\n\r\nBut since he hates Jews, he's A-OK with IMC, huh?","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 21:28:43","modified":"2003-06-21 21:28:43","fileurl":""},{"id":66110,"heading":"A nicely virulent counter attack.","article":"Your research staff is to be commended.\r\n\r\nThe best form of Black Propaganda is to take a writer's, or speaker's, words out of context and then quote selectively to paint the desired picture.\r\n\r\nHaving said that I am not a Larouche Fan I just found the article interesting and thought the Zionazi's would have a fit over it.\r\n\r\nThey did.","author":"Cloak and Dagger","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 21:50:24","modified":"2003-06-21 21:50:24","fileurl":""},{"id":66116,"heading":"This is so typical","article":"Sitting here reading all these posts, it struck as so typical that this charge would eventually surface. \r\n\r\nHow predictable that when faced with refutation after refutation from Jewboy, myself, daveman and others, the sheep around here would ultimately throw out this absurdity.\r\n\r\nIt's gotten harder and harder for the nuts (not simply liberals or leftists but just plain deluded) to apaologize and rationalize the actions of hamas et.al and those "palestinian victims" who wholeheartedly support them. So hard in fact, that someone eventually culls a missive from some dubious source at best, telling us all the true cause of all the violence. That the Jews, in essence, are attacking themselves for, as more than one complete IDIOT posted, huge profits.\r\n\r\nIsrael has formed a group of Islamic subhuman murderers and charged them with the mission of killing ALL JEWS and all those in close proximity to ALL JEWS. What's more, the proof of this theory is that Israel has failed to hunt down and kill the head of this group of animals. Faulty logic? Not even close. No logic at all. \r\n\r\nFurthermore, if and when Israel does in fact put down this scumbag, the sheep in the "hate Israel at any cost " camp will ponit to that as even more proof of Sharon's masterminding of hamas. After all what better way to throw of suspicion than to raise a false flag.\r\n\r\nThis thread has gotten ENTIRELY to much coverage based on how utterly non-sensical it is in it's implications.\r\n\r\nEVERY single element of it has been refuted over and over agin with virtually no effort by Jewboy and the rest of us.\r\n\r\nIt's simply silly.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 22:41:12","modified":"2003-06-21 22:41:12","fileurl":""},{"id":66118,"heading":"Stienfield II","article":"You sissys are actually getting into a slap fight, silly girls.\r\ndon't smear the lipstick, ladies ha","author":"Not an involved party","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-21 22:47:02","modified":"2003-06-21 22:47:02","fileurl":""},{"id":66222,"heading":"What do you know, fellas?...","article":"The arch hate monger "Cloak and Dagger" came out of his hiding place. \r\n\r\n"Black Propaganda"? Don't make us piss ourselves. I for one haven't taken LaRouche's above mentioned quotes about Israelis, Judaism and Zionism out of context, you pathetic loser. Nor have I tried painting pictures. That's your doing here (regarding Sharon and Likud), you sicko. You're out of excuses and about to hit rockbottom. There is ample proof on Google that Larouche is anti-Semitic. \r\n\r\n"Cloak & Dagger", you're overtly anti-Semitic and a filthy lowlife pig. Go give Arafat, David Duke, Mat Hale, Pat Buchanan et al. a blowjob. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 15:04:58","modified":"2003-06-22 15:04:58","fileurl":""},{"id":66224,"heading":"About Larouche and EIR magazine:","article":"The LaRouchites generally operate under front groups such as Food for Peace and the Schiller Institute, and publications such as the New Federalist and Executive Intelligence Review. (Read this paragraph and the rest here: http:\/\/www.publiceye.org\/larouche\/LaRouche_Theories.htm)\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 15:37:25","modified":"2003-06-22 15:37:25","fileurl":""},{"id":66231,"heading":"More on LaRouche","article":"* Here's a conspiracy site run by Lyndon R. Larouche: http:\/\/www.reviewjournal.com\/lvrj_home\/2002\/Oct-08-Tue-2002\/opinion\/19795105.html\r\n\r\n* Here is how LaRouche has tried to obcure his neo-Nazi Fascism in the eyes of the public: \r\nDuring the late 1980's the LaRouchites covertly sought to expand their contacts with the Left and attempted to link up with progressive groups. Many progressive researchers report that during this period they began to receive telephone calls from LaRouchian operatives suggesting joint work or offering documents or story ideas. \r\n\r\n* Fred Newman is self-hating Jew, a co-leader of a pro-Qaddafi pro-Arab terror cult called "New Alliance Party". This Newman started as an ally of Lyndon LaRouche! One Jew hater hooked up with another! \r\n Investigative journalist Dennis King, whose book, "Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism" was published by Doubleday in 1989, claimed that all of Fulani and Newman's organizations, including the All Stars Project, "have the political goal to further the power of Fred Newman and Lenora Fulani." (Read about Fulani here: http:\/\/jdo.org\/buchanan.htm).\r\n\r\n* 21st Century Science & Technology Magazine describes Larouche as a POLITICAL figure and a well-known major ECONOMIST... Lyndon LaRouche applies the method of the exact sciences, economics. The concept he puts forward is based on bringing the EXACT SCIENCES into the social sciences. So...he analyzes the Palestinians' and Israelis' behavior as well as phenomena as Zionism and the "Palestinian" cause by applying models of exact sciences. This is a GRAVE mistake, since people, religions, nations and conflicts do NOT lend themselves to such analysis methods. Seldom do people behave in rational patterns, let alone in the Middle East. So his choice of method is ludicrous. \r\n\r\n* US DEMOCRATIC Party PRESIDENTIAL pre-candidate for 2004, Lyndon R. Larouche played an initiating role in formulating what President Ronald Reagan announced on March 23, 1983 as the "Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) (!!!). Yet...he opposed the economic and related policy-matrices of the administrations of Presidents like Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Bush (most notably). (http:\/\/committeerepubliccanada.ca\/English\/LaRouchebio.htm). Seems to me this guy likes to have it both ways - a rightwinger who is also a "leftist" ,- a peculiar political brew, to put it mildly. No wonder he edits and publishes a conspiracy themed magazine. \r\n\r\nSince 1964-1972, he has been a leading organizer of the opposition to the 1964-1972 cultural paradigm-shift. On this account, he has become a leading target of bitter enmity from ideologues of such sundry New Age cults as the "rock-drug-sex counterculture," "post-industrial utopianisms" generally, and "neo-malthusian" forms of anti-scientific, "environmentalist" fads. As a result of that, he has been the target of sundry known efforts to eliminate him, even physically, by sundry official and private agencies inside the U.S.A. and abroad. Remark: this can explain why he's so obsessed with conspiracy theories regarding powerful GOVERNMENTS worldwide in general, and SHARON, in particular. \r\n\r\n* Please read also this link ("LaRouche exposed"): http:\/\/www.pcc-courieronline.com\/news\/111501\/larouche.html\r\nThis is a telling narrative of a college student who escaped from the LaRouche cult's clutches. \r\nBtw, it indirectly sheds light on the monsterous drivel I've read in this discussion. All the dorks posting here are probably either members of the various LaRouche organizations or fans. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-22 16:42:40","modified":"2003-06-22 16:42:40","fileurl":""},{"id":66386,"heading":"jewboy is wrong","article":"the issue is not personal,unwarranted attacks on dean andromidas.\r\n\r\nthe point is whether dean's article makes sense or not.\r\n\r\nand it does.personal,unwarranted ad hominem device is no replacemente for your lack of counterarguments,screwboy sucko - it only makes you look more like a fool.","author":"jewboy screwboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:15:09","modified":"2003-06-23 09:15:09","fileurl":""},{"id":66388,"heading":"screwboy on larouche","article":"will you please provide verifiable sourcing\/links to the quote you attribute to larouche or else shut the fuck up.","author":"screwboy on larouche","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:18:03","modified":"2003-06-23 09:18:03","fileurl":""},{"id":66390,"heading":"To the coward:","article":""the point is whether dean's article makes sense or not. \r\n\r\nand it does."\r\n\r\nOnly if you're looking for (additional) reasons to hate Jews.\r\n\r\n"...it only makes you look more like a fool."\r\n\r\nNo, it doesn't. You look like a fool for believing it.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:19:31","modified":"2003-06-23 09:19:31","fileurl":""},{"id":66391,"heading":"to screwboy=daveman","article":"hey moley:\r\n\r\nprovide verifiable evidence\/links that larouche hates jews or else shut the fuck up will ya baby.","author":"to screwboy=daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:20:23","modified":"2003-06-23 09:20:23","fileurl":""},{"id":66393,"heading":"this is the point where","article":"daveman\r\n(who posted the other two "inflammatory" comments)\r\nposts the links to "prove " himself right in the conversation with himself at 5am..........\r\nwhat a loser.","author":"i have conversations with myself","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:25:17","modified":"2003-06-23 09:25:17","fileurl":""},{"id":66395,"heading":"Nope, coward-boy.","article":"I post only under one name: daveman.\r\n\r\nYou, however, don't have the integrity to post under one name, because you're a coward. \r\n\r\nNor do I have to "provide verifiable evidence\/links that larouche hates jews or else shut the fuck up will ya baby" to satisy you. You can easily find evidence enough to suit yourself. "Jewboy" may provide you with links; discuss it with him. \r\n\r\nNow, do you understand? Or are you going to keep up the paranoid fantasy?","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:31:53","modified":"2003-06-23 09:31:53","fileurl":""},{"id":66396,"heading":"frescasshole","article":"only an asshole could have said that sharon can't target yassin because of vastity whan in fact yassin is livin' in full view and constant media spotlight in a strip of flat desert smaller than santa monica.","author":"frescasshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:32:50","modified":"2003-06-23 09:32:50","fileurl":""},{"id":66399,"heading":"frescasshole\/2","article":"as for osama - bothe german intel head august hanning and senator graham have repeatedly stated they know where osama is:\r\n\r\nyhe afghan\/paki border:\r\n\r\nis this maybe why bush the terrorist waged war...on iraq instead??????","author":"frescasshole\/2","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:35:38","modified":"2003-06-23 09:35:38","fileurl":""},{"id":66401,"heading":"frescasshole\/3","article":"as for saddam:\r\n\r\nsunni iraq where he's rumored to be hiding so as to justify continued us occupation of iraq is a strip of desert as big as la county - \r\n\r\nand 150000 reported us soldiers can't get him?\r\n\r\ngo give bush a better blowjob,idiot.\r\n\r\ncan bush really not afford a better indy spammer than this frescasshole retard?","author":"frescasshole\/3","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:38:24","modified":"2003-06-23 09:38:24","fileurl":""},{"id":66402,"heading":"coward-boy","article":""can bush really not afford a better indy spammer than this frescasshole retard?"\r\n\r\nExactly.\r\n\r\nThat proves he's not a "paid shill", as the typical Indymidiot would have us believe.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:49:19","modified":"2003-06-23 09:49:19","fileurl":""},{"id":66405,"heading":"screwboy evidence or shut the fuck up","article":"evidence that eir=larouche or shut the fuck up.\r\n\r\nfurthermore,I don't give a fuck about larouche.\r\n\r\nbut I do care for logical thinking and truth,and andromidas essay provides both - unlike you,moles.\r\n\r\n","author":"screwboy evidence or shut the fuck up","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:55:19","modified":"2003-06-23 09:55:19","fileurl":""},{"id":66406,"heading":"daveman=fresca=screwboy","article":"the fact that all you can come up with is a truckload of crap and no arguments worth the name is only proof that neither the bush terrorists nor their indy spammers pursue critical thinking or the truth. ","author":"daveman=fresca=screwboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 09:57:34","modified":"2003-06-23 09:57:34","fileurl":""},{"id":66411,"heading":"Interesting","article":""the fact that all you can come up with is a truckload of crap and no arguments worth the name... "\r\n\r\nFunny...you could say the same thing about the Left.\r\n\r\nYout estimation of a source's credibility is based solely on how much it vilifies Bush.\r\n\r\nThat's all.\r\n\r\nIf you found an article signed by Spongebob Squarepants that discussed how evil the Bush adminitration is, it'd be immediately posted in IMC , with the juiciest quotes on signs at the next protest rally.\r\n\r\nYour rabid willingness to buy into anything that underscores your belief in Bush's evil shows exactly how little credibility your cause has.\r\n\r\nCan you say, "Grasping at straws"? ","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 10:44:18","modified":"2003-06-23 10:44:18","fileurl":""},{"id":66414,"heading":"BACK TO THE POINTTTTT!","article":"daveman=screwboy=fresca:\r\n\r\nthe point here is sharon creating hamas as shown by his never targeting yassin to perpetuate the cycle of violence and the war dividends.\r\n\r\neither stick to the point or spare us your pathetic diversionary tactics,moley.","author":"back to the pointtttt!!!!!!","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 11:00:16","modified":"2003-06-23 11:00:16","fileurl":""},{"id":66425,"heading":"Back to the point yourself, coward.","article":"Sharon may have created Hamas.\r\n\r\nBig deal.\r\n\r\nNow he wants Hamas stopped.\r\n\r\nYou can't deny that. Well, you can, but it just shows how you attempt to justify your Jew-hatred.\r\n\r\n"daveman=screwboy=fresca" \r\n\r\nWhy does the fact that three people disagree with you frighten you so much you have to concoct a paranoid fantasy that they're one and the same person?","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 11:29:53","modified":"2003-06-23 11:29:53","fileurl":""},{"id":66426,"heading":"daveman is a dork","article":"1- sharon is not trying to stop hamas at all - because he never targets yassin and lets rantisi flee.\r\n\r\n2-daveman=fresca=screwboy=bush admirer etc.:\r\n\r\nthe odds that so many fascist assholes would be spamming indy 24\/7 out of their own pockets are truly scant,wuldn't you say?\r\n\r\nfuck off imbecile - get a life.","author":"daveman the dork","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 11:48:48","modified":"2003-06-23 11:48:48","fileurl":""},{"id":66429,"heading":"Coward","article":""1- sharon is not trying to stop hamas at all - because he never targets yassin and lets rantisi flee."\r\n\r\nRight. And if he did kill Rantisi, you'd be wetting your pants about that.\r\n\r\n"2-daveman=fresca=screwboy=bush admirer etc.: \r\n\r\nthe odds that so many fascist assholes would be spamming indy 24\/7 out of their own pockets are truly scant,wuldn't you say?"\r\n\r\nFascist? No. Prove it. Spamming? No. Prove it. Truly scant odds? No. It's a big country. Are you saying there's no room in IMC for dissenting viewpoints? Ever hear of freedom of speech? You know, the thing you want only for those who agree with you? \r\n\r\nWhat are you people afraid of? \r\n\r\n"fuck off imbecile - get a life."\r\n\r\nYou first, coward.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 11:56:59","modified":"2003-06-23 11:56:59","fileurl":""},{"id":66434,"heading":"daveman in denial","article":"you still refuse to respond as to why sharon never targets yassin and lets rantisi flee.\r\n\r\nwe know by now that you can't.\r\n\r\nas for you and so many other sharonites spamming - since you never come up with 1 decent argument - the wire 24\/7: \r\nyes there is another explanation:\r\n\r\nyou're bill gates' deranged sons!!!!!!","author":"daveman in denial","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 12:06:22","modified":"2003-06-23 12:06:22","fileurl":""},{"id":66449,"heading":"Im BACK!!!!....Did U miss me...","article":"just being sarcastic. Some of U motherfuckers need a God damn job especially the three JEW-kateers Fresca, faggot boy and daveman. In case your wondering I had a great Weekend and I will get back to ripping on you punks and bitches soon enough :D ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 16:42:25","modified":"2003-06-23 16:42:25","fileurl":""},{"id":66465,"heading":"A Memo to American Muslims (by an American Muslim)","article":"(for some reason, this was hidden\/censored at SF IMC)\r\n\r\nFrom the Islamic webist http\/\/:ijtihad.org\/memo.htm reprinted in Adbusters\r\n\r\nA Memo to American Muslims \r\n\r\nM. A. Muqtedar Khan \r\n\r\nIn the name of Allah, the most Benevolent and the Most Merciful. May this memo find you in the shade of Islam enjoying the mercy, the protection and the grace of Allah. \r\n\r\nI am writing this memo to you all with the explicit purpose of inviting you to lead the American Muslim community in soul searching, reflection and reassessment. \r\n\r\nWhat happened on September 11th in New York and Washington DC will forever remain a horrible scar on the history of Islam and humanity. No matter how much we condemn it, and point to the Quran and the Sunnah to argue that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people, the fact remains that the perpetrators of this crime against humanity have indicated that their actions are sanctioned by Islamic values. \r\n\r\nThe fact that even now several Muslim scholars and thousands of Muslims defend the accused is indicative that not all Muslims believe that the attacks are unIslamic. This is truly sad. \r\n\r\nEven if it were true that Israel and the US are enemies of the Muslim World, wonder what is preventing them from unleashing their nuclear arsenal against Muslims, a response that mercilessly murders thousands of innocent people, including hundreds of Muslims is absolutely indefensible. If anywhere in your hearts there is any sympathy or understanding with those who committed this act, I invite you to ask yourself this question, would Muhammad (pbuh) sanction such an act? \r\n\r\nWhile encouraging Muslims to struggle against injustice (Al Quran 4:135), Allah also imposes strict rules of engagement. He says in unequivocal terms that to kill an innocent being is like killing entire humanity (Al Quran 5:32). He also encourages Muslims to forgive Jews and Christians if they have committed injustices against us (Al Quran 2:109, 3:159, 5:85). \r\n\r\nMuslims, including American Muslims have been practicing hypocrisy on a grand scale. They protest against the discriminatory practices of Israel but are silent against the discriminatory practices in Muslim states. In the Gulf one can see how laws and even salaries are based on ethnic origin. This is racism, but we never hear of Muslims protesting against them at International fora. \r\n\r\nThe Israeli occupation of Palestine is perhaps central to Muslim grievance against the West. While acknowledging that, I must remind you that Israel treats its one million Arab citizens with greater respect and dignity than most Arab nations treat their citizens. Today Palestinian refugees can settle and become citizens of the United States but in spite of all the tall rhetoric of the Arab world and Quranic injunctions (24:22) no Muslim country except Jordan extends this support to them. \r\n\r\nWhile we loudly and consistently condemn Israel for its ill treatment of Palestinians we are silent when Muslim regimes abuse the rights of Muslims and slaughter thousands of them. Remember Saddam and his use of chemical weapons against Muslims (Kurds)?. Remember Pakistani army\u2019s excesses against Muslims (Bengalis)?. Remember the Mujahideen of Afghanistan and their mutual slaughter? Have we ever condemned them for their excesses? Have we demanded international intervention or retribution against them? Do you know how the Saudis treat their minority Shiis? Have we protested the violation of their rights? But we all are eager to condemn Israel; not because we care for rights and lives of the Palestinians, we don\u2019t. We condemn Israel because we hate \u201cthem". \r\n\r\nTO RECEIVE NOTIFICATION OF NEW ARTICLES \r\n\r\nJOIN GLOCALEYE EMAIL LIST \r\n\r\nMuslims love to live in the US but also love to hate it. Many openly claim that the US is a terrorist state but they continue to live in it. Their decision to live here is testimony that they would rather live here than anywhere else. As an Indian Muslim, I know for sure that nowhere on earth, including India, will I get the same sense of dignity and respect that I have received in the US. No Muslim country will treat me as well as the US has. If what happened on september 11th had happened in India, the biggest democracy, thousands of Muslims would have been slaughterred in riots on mere suspicion and there would be another slaughter after confirmation. But in the US, bigotry and xenophobia has been kept in check by media and leaders. In many places hundreds of Americans have gathered around Islamic centers in symbolic gestures of protection and embrace of American Muslims. In many cities Christian congregations have started wearing hijab to identify with fellow Muslim women. In patience and in tolerance ordinary Americans have demonstrated their extraordinary virtues. \r\n\r\nIt is time that we acknowledge that the freedoms we enjoy in the US are more desirable to us than superficial solidarity with the Muslim World. If you disagree than prove it by packing your bags and going to whichever Muslim country you identify with. If you do not leave and do not acknowledge that you would rather live here than anywhere else, know that you are being hypocritical. \r\n\r\nIt is time that we faced these hypocritical practices and struggled to transcend them. It is time that American Muslim leaders fought to purify their own lot. \r\n\r\nFor over a decade we have watched as Muslims in the name of Islam have committed violence against other Muslims and other peoples. We have always found a way to reconcile the vast distance between Islamic values and Muslim practices by pointing out to the injustices committed upon Muslims by others. The point however is this \u2013 our belief in Islam and commitment to Islamic values is not contingent on the moral conduct of the US or Israel. And as Muslims can we condone such inhuman and senseless waste of life in the name of Islam? \r\n\r\nThe biggest victims of hate filled politics as embodied in the actions of several Muslim militias all over the world are Muslims themselves. Hate is the extreme form of intolerance and when individuals and groups succumb to it they can do nothing constructive. Militias like the Taliban have allowed their hate for the West to override their obligation to pursue the welfare of their people and as a result of their actions not only have thousands of innocent people died in America, but thousands of people will die in the Muslim World. \r\n\r\nAlready, half a million Afghans have had to leave their homes and their country. The war has not yet begun. It will only get worst. Hamas and Islamic Jihad may kill a few Jews, women and children included, with their suicide bombs and temporarily satisfy their lust for Jewish blood, but thousands of Palestinians then pay the price for their actions. \r\n\r\nThe culture of hate and killing is tearing away at the moral fabric of the Muslim society. We are more focused on \u201cthe other\u201d and have completely forgotten our duty to Allah. In pursuit of the inferior jihad we have sacrificed the superior jihad. \r\n\r\nIslamic resurgence, the cherished ideals of which pursued the ultimate goal of a universally just and moral society has been hijacked by hate and call for murder and mayhem. If Binladen were an individual then we would have no problem. But unfortunately Binladen has become a phenomenon -- a cancer eating away at the morality of our youth, and undermining the spiritual health of our future. \r\n\r\nToday the century old Islamic revival is in jeopardy because we have allowed insanity to prevail over our better judgment. Yes, the US has played a hand in the creation of Binladen and the Taliban, but it is we who have allowed them to grow and gain such a foothold. It is our duty to police our world. It is our responsibility to prevent people from abusing Islam. It is our job to ensure that Islam is not misrepresented. We should have made sure that what happened on Sept. 11th should never have happened. \r\n\r\nIt is time the leaders of the American Muslim community woke up and realized that there is more to life than competing with the American Jewish lobby for power over US foreign policy. Islam is not about defeating Jews or conquering Jerusalem. It is about mercy, about virtue, about sacrifice and about duty. Above all it is the pursuit of moral perfection. Nothing can be further away from moral perfection than the wanton slaughter of thousands of unsuspecting innocent people. \r\n\r\nI hope that we will now rededicate our lives and our institutions to the search for harmony, peace and tolerance. Let us be prepared to suffer injustice rather than commit injustices. After all it is we who carry the divine burden of Islam and not others. We have to be morally better, more forgiving, more sacrificing than others, if we wish to convince the world about the truth of our message. We cannot even be equal to others in virtue, we must excel. \r\n\r\nIt is time for soul searching. How can the message of Muhammad (pbuh) who was sent as mercy to mankind become a source of horror and fear? How can Islam inspire thousands of youth to dedicate their lives to killing others? We are supposed to invite people to Islam not murder them. \r\n\r\nThe worst exhibition of Islam happened on our turf. We must take first responsibility to undo the evil it has manifest. This is our mandate, our burden and also our opportunity.\r\n\r\n","author":"M. A. Muqtedar Khan","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 20:52:44","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:17","fileurl":""},{"id":66466,"heading":"Thank you","article":"Mr. Khan, for that insightful essay. If more religious folks (of all faiths) were like you, it would be a much better world.","author":"B. Russell","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 21:17:21","modified":"2003-06-23 21:17:21","fileurl":""},{"id":66471,"heading":"Wow! What a great post!","article":"Reply to: M. A. Muqtedar Khan\r\n\r\nMr. Khan - That has to be one of the best posts I've ever read on Indymedia. You sir are a very enlightened and intelligent individual. I salute you.\r\n\r\nThanks for putting that up here.\r\n\r\nB.A.","author":"Bush Admirer","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-23 22:23:23","modified":"2003-06-23 22:23:23","fileurl":""},{"id":66484,"heading":"M. A. Muqtedar Khan","article":"Dear Khan, \r\ni really liked your post. It is hard on muslims but I agree that these are bitter pills that we need to swallow but they are half of the problem. Yes I agree that this country is great. In my mind there is no country better but Islam tells u to speak out injustice everywhere and of all kinds and the Palestinian issue is so critical.. there are thousands of palestinians dieing for their right for self determination. Just cuz im talking of Israeli injustice doesnt mean I dont agree that the muslim world is decaying under the rule of the worst kind of sons of bitches. Thats is another can of worms. Its a tough issue and it needs looking at but this page is about Israel and that is why that is being discussed. But thank u my brother I agree with U totally","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 00:27:04","modified":"2003-06-24 00:27:04","fileurl":""},{"id":66488,"heading":"This I disagree with","article":""But we all are eager to condemn Israel; not because we care for rights and lives of the Palestinians, we don\u2019t. We condemn Israel because we hate \u201cthem". \r\n\r\nNo this is not correct at all. We dont hate them. If today they were to stop crushing them I as a muslim would have nothing against them. I would welcome a State of Israel that will leave peacefully with a palestinian state as that would be the end of this story and I can stop feeling so bad for my Palestinain brothers getting slaughtered out there","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 00:36:32","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:17","fileurl":""},{"id":66530,"heading":"To the fucktard from June 22, 2003 05:18 AM:","article":"Here you go: http:\/\/www.totse.com\/en\/conspiracy\/institutional_analysis\/lhldefd.html\r\n\r\nThis is one quote of 2 or 3 I've found. Now shut the fuck up fucktard and go suck his dick.\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 09:46:21","modified":"2003-06-24 09:46:21","fileurl":""},{"id":66531,"heading":"To the fucktard #2 of June 22, 2003 05:20 AM:","article":"You're illiterate, so I won't bother (Your mom types for you. Don't forget to tell her "thank you".).\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 09:48:26","modified":"2003-06-24 09:48:26","fileurl":""},{"id":66532,"heading":"To fucktard #3 of June 22, 2003 05:55 AM:","article":"EIR=LaRouche indeed, fucktard. \r\n\r\nDon't make me die of laughter, chucklehead. You give much more than a fuck AND blowjob about LaRouche. Conversely, truth and logical thinking are anathema to you. Shut the fuck up and go suck Andromidas's dick and balls. \r\n\r\nI'm enjoying all this, otherwise I woudn't be here. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 09:51:29","modified":"2003-06-24 09:51:29","fileurl":""},{"id":66533,"heading":"To the "daveman=fresca=screwboy" fucktard:","article":""A truckload of crap" is one of your monikers, you cockhead. You don't care a whit about critical thinking and truth. \r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 09:53:35","modified":"2003-06-24 09:53:35","fileurl":""},{"id":66534,"heading":"TO ALL THE PARANOIA JUNKIE FUCKTARDS:","article":"YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL UNI-DIMENSIONAL FUCKWITS (AT BEST). \r\nYOU'VE GOT NOTHING ELSE TO DO DURING YOUR WAKING HOURS THAN SPAM THE NET WITH YOUR CONPIRACY SHIT. \r\nIN A SENSE YOU ARE *WORSE* THAN HAMAS, ISLAMIC JIHAD, AL-FATAH, ETC. NOT EQUAL TO THEM .\r\n\r\nYOU SHOULD FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE SET BY M. A. MUQTEDAR KHAN. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 10:01:17","modified":"2003-06-24 10:01:17","fileurl":""},{"id":66540,"heading":" M. A. Muqtedar Khan,","article":"let me thank you for publicly acknowledging as a Muslim that the US and especially Israel are NOT enemies of the Muslim world. You've unconditionally disavowed all the violent acts that have been, are and will be committed in the name of Islam. \r\nAs far as dealing with Kafirs is concerned, you've pointed to the positive parts in the Quran as the portions which should be invoked rather than others. I'm especially delighted to read about the source you cited vis-a-vis forgiveness. \r\n\r\nKudos for the sober acknowledgement that Israel indeed treats its Arab nationals better than they would be treated elsewhere in the Arab world. There are many "Palestinian" refugees throughout the Arab world (even after 36 or 55 years...), even in Jordan. But they are NOT afforded equal rights to the non-"Palestinian" population's. The Arab governments have been perpetuating their refugee status as early as 1948 so as to use them as political pawns against Israel. \r\n\r\nAs for Israel's discriminatory practices, let me inform you that many of them if not most are a corollary of Israel's attempts to remain a Jewish state rather than become another bi-national or Arab one. While I can see why Israeli Arabs are indignant about these practices, it must be borne in mind that the Jewish people has only one country and state whereas Arabs and Muslims have many, let alone the fact the Arabs residing in areas near Israel's surrounding countries aren't culturally distinguishable from their counterparts in those countries AT ALL. In any event, a certain degree of discrimination in the Jews' favor is unavoidable, regardless of many people's disagreement with this statement. This is why Israel will never adopt a US like constitution,- Israel is a unique nation state.\r\n\r\nYou demonstrate fortitude by pointing to how your Arab and other brethren condemn Israel (and Jews) because they hate them. Most Arabs indeed do NOT care for the "Palestinians" despite their being their own brethren. \r\n\r\nYou've brought up the topic of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The unfortunate truth is not only they indulge in committing homicidal suicide attacks, but also Arafat's military wing as well as the leftist organizations, such as PFLP do. And it seems like no matter how many Jews they manage to kill, their desire for our blood is never quenched. Had Israel not defended itself and been eliminating these terrorists whenever the chance appears - albeit guided by certain PR constraints - there would have been dozens of thousands, if not hundreds, of Jewish victims. What they've been doing since Sep. '00 is to attempt genocide against Israeli Jews. And they would have succeeded. \r\n\r\nYou deserve accolades for underscoring Islam is not about competing with or defeating Jews. \r\nI'm pretty sure you're conscious of the fact Jerusalem is much less holy to Islam than Mecca and Medina are. The Quran related how Muhammad had a Night Journey (either in a dream or in daydream) to "Al-Aqsa", which in actuality means the heavenly temple of MECCA (we Jews, btw, have a parallel Heavenly Temple to our own), yet the Arabs (and possibly most Muslims) deliberately interpreted it in a very fussy way to mean the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem (hence Al-Aqsa mosque) in order to gain control of the site where the holiest Jewish shrine had been. The Arabs ended up totally forbidding Jews from setting foot on the Temple Mount and trashing almost all the Jewish relics thereon. \r\n\r\nHaving said all the above, it must be observed that as long as the Wahabbi strain of Islam isn't snuffed out, many more Kafirs and Muslims alike will keep dying. \r\n\r\nI second Bush Admirer's words. \r\nAnd When the uni-dimensional scums on this discussion lump me together with him and spout their smutty musings, I wear them as a badge of honor. It means I'm in the right camp.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 12:03:26","modified":"2003-06-24 12:03:26","fileurl":""},{"id":66541,"heading":"P.S. to M. A. Muqtedar Khan:","article":"I meant to say you unconditionally DISOWNED violent acts. \r\nSorry for the confusion.\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 12:16:44","modified":"2003-06-24 12:16:44","fileurl":""},{"id":66544,"heading":"However, another Muslim is wrong.","article":"Omar can haze me as much as he wants, but he neglected to mention the "Palestinians" willingly began a murder campaign and must be prepared to pay the price as long as they carry on. Besides, no people achieves its independence without making many sacrifices for it. \r\n\r\nHe's also back to deluding himself - he denies most Arabs' and Muslims' hatred for Israel. This is pathetic! \r\n\r\nNote how he tries to convey an impression Israel and the Jews are the villain while the "Palestinians" are the victim - he has it reversed. All of his lovely tuned musings about Israel vis-a-vis a Palestinian state are absolutely detached from the reality of the past 3 years. He also ignores or is uninformed of how his Arab brothers wouldn't consider a Palestinian state by Israel's side an end of the conflict. \r\nHe also wants to believe the decay in the Muslim world is unrelated to its constant struggle against Israel. Wrong again. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-24 12:45:14","modified":"2003-06-24 12:45:14","fileurl":""},{"id":66772,"heading":"mr khan's fake shit","article":"mr "khan,I have no way to verify who the hell you are.\r\n\r\nbut your post clearly proves that you are an asshole:\r\n\r\nyou attribute to muslims an event - 911 - for which there is not one single shred of evidence that muslims did it - quite the contrary:\r\n\r\nall circumstantial evidence points to a govt terror act.","author":"mr khan's fake shit","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 10:49:54","modified":"2003-06-25 10:49:54","fileurl":""},{"id":66778,"heading":"screwboy wrong on larouche","article":"let me first praise screwboy for at least beginning to do his homework\r\n\r\nlet me also state that I don't give a fuck about larouche - once they tried to mess with me in front of the post office and it was just a pile of shit so I told them where to go.\r\n\r\nhaving said this,it doesn't mean all the quotes are wrong.\r\n\r\n>"America must be cleansed for its righteous war by the immediate elimination of the Nazi Jewish Lobby and other British agents from the councils of government, industry, and labor."<<<\r\n\r\nthis quote is wrongliy expressed in that it generalizes,but it is true that some of the worst criminals against humanity are jewish and are with the govt today:\r\n\r\nWolfowitz,Rumsfeld,Perle - even Powell has jewish ancestors.\r\n\r\nanyway what I hate about such quotes or level of discussion is the obfuscation:\r\n\r\njewishness has NOTHING to do with these pigs' crimes - it's corporate greed that moves them.","author":"screwboy wrong on larouche","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:03:40","modified":"2003-06-25 11:03:40","fileurl":""},{"id":66789,"heading":"more on larouche","article":"again,part of those larouche quote is crap - if they are authentic,because the site quotes second-hand.\r\n\r\nit's not a primary source.\r\n\r\nbut if authentic,the bs about jazz and the beatles is just dogmatic crap.\r\n\r\nand the quotes never come up with backup documentation.\r\n\r\nbut then again,they're taken out of context so I don't know.\r\n\r\nanyway:nowhere do these quote express hatred for the jews as you wrongly stated.\r\n\r\n\r\n"The first, and most important fact to be recognized concerning the Hitler regime, is that Adolf Hitler was put into power in Germany on orders from London. The documentation of this matter is abundant and conclusive." \r\n\r\nthis one quote though misses its mark only very narrowly:\r\n\r\nit is widely acknoledged among historians that part of the brit royal family had nazi sympathies.\r\n\r\nand: both grandpas of the current white house terrorist \r\nbush financed the nazi party,according to john loftus in his book the secret war against the jews and to:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/la.indymedia.org\/news\/2003\/06\/63596_comment.php","author":"screwboy screws up on larouche","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:21:13","modified":"2003-06-25 11:21:13","fileurl":""},{"id":66796,"heading":"screwboy is an asshole","article":">>EIR=LaRouche indeed, fucktard. <<\r\n\r\nprove it or go eat dick cheney,asshole.","author":"screwboy is an asshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:46:52","modified":"2003-06-25 11:46:52","fileurl":""},{"id":66798,"heading":"screwboy the mole","article":">>I'm enjoying all this, otherwise I woudn't be here<<\r\n\r\nso let's figure this out - you are enjoying your shit figures daily on indy 24\/7 at your own expense?\r\n\r\ndon't you have a dayjob?\r\n\r\nwow man you reaally must be bill gates' deranged son then - go eat him.","author":"screwboy the troll","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 11:50:44","modified":"2003-06-25 11:50:44","fileurl":""},{"id":66805,"heading":"BACK TO THE POINT,AGAIN!!!","article":"it's amazing the amount of obfuscation vomited here by our resident mole "daveman"="fresca"="jewboy" - he even self-multiplied as mr khan....\r\n\r\nanyway screwboy:\r\n\r\neither stick to the point you are still refusing to address,the point being:\r\n\r\nthe creation of hamas by the israeli right in sabotage of the peace process and of secular nationalist palestinians,as aptly shown in andromidas' article and as further proven by sharon never targeting hams leader yassin for assassination and letting rantisi flee in order to perpetuate the cycle of violence.\r\n\r\neither stick to the issue or shove you obfuscation up your ass,motherfucker.","author":"back to the point again!!!!!","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 12:08:44","modified":"2003-06-25 12:08:44","fileurl":""},{"id":66833,"heading":"more useful reding","article":"http:\/\/www.globalresearch.ca\/articles\/ZAR204A.html\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.globalresearch.ca\/articles\/STE204A.html\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.globalresearch.ca\/articles\/LIT204A.html","author":"SHARON=HAMAS","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 14:00:14","modified":"2003-06-25 14:00:14","fileurl":""},{"id":66879,"heading":"the moles gave up on this one","article":"what else did you expect - the loser has run out of pseudoarguments.\r\n\r\nafter reading the linx provided reader ask you this:\r\n\r\nhow come powell and the fucking eu always stigmatize only hamas but not the hamas founder,jew-massmurderer sharon?\r\n\r\nhow come the military wings of hamas and their press are based in London,Texas and Virginia and bush doesn't seem to care?","author":"moley gave up on this one","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 15:10:48","modified":"2003-06-25 15:10:48","fileurl":""},{"id":66963,"heading":"Gutless coward","article":"When you scrape together enough courage to post under a single handle, then maybe we can have a discussion.\r\n\r\nUntil then, crawl back under your rock.\r\n\r\nCoward.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 20:24:42","modified":"2003-06-25 20:24:42","fileurl":""},{"id":66976,"heading":"On behalf of Jews, an apology.","article":"http:\/\/www.frontpagemag.com\/articles\/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8535\r\n\r\nOur Apology\r\nBy Stephen Berger\r\nFrontPageMagazine.com | June 23, 2003\r\n\r\nFollowing the latest atrocity in Jerusalem, Secretary of State Powell urged the Palestinians to issue some form of denunciation. \r\n\r\nPrime Minister Mahmoud Abbas complained that only the Palestinian side is ever required to denounce terror. \r\n\r\nPredictably, the Palestinian denunciation later mumbles that they "deplore the murder of civilians on both sides." \r\n\r\nPerhaps the Palestinians have a point, and so to set the record straight, I do hereby denounce the following in the name of the Jewish people:\r\n\r\n1. All Jewish suicide bombers who have ever acted against Arabs. \r\n\r\n2. All Arab buses blown up by Jews. \r\n\r\n3. All Arab pizza parlors, malls, discotheques and restaurants destroyed by Jewish terrorists. \r\n\r\n4. All airplanes hijacked by Jews since 1903. \r\n\r\n5. All Ramadan feasts targeted by Jewish bombs. \r\n\r\n6. All Arabs lynched in Israeli cities; all Arab Olympic athletes murdered by Jews; all Arab embassies bombed by Jews. \r\n\r\n7. All mosques, cemeteries and religious schools fire bombed or desecrated by Jews in North Africa, France, Belgium, Germany, England or any other country. \r\n\r\n8. The destruction of American military, governmental and civilian institutions in Kenya, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Yemen - along with the murder of U.S.Marines and diplomatic personnel. \r\n\r\n9. All Jewish school books which claim that Arabs poison wells, use Christian blood to bake pita, control world finance, and murdered Jesus; or that Arab elders meet secretly to plot a world takeover. \r\n\r\n10. And I am particularly ashamed at the way my fellow Jews attacked the World Trade Center, Pentagon and civilian aircraft on September 11th and danced in the streets to celebrate the act. \r\n\r\nProf. Stephen Berger works at the Tel Aviv Medical Center.\r\n\r\n","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 21:51:03","modified":"2003-06-25 21:51:03","fileurl":""},{"id":66980,"heading":"oops","article":"And I am particularly ashamed at the way my fellow Jews attacked the World Trade Center, Pentagon and civilian aircraft on September 11th and danced in the streets to celebrate the act. \r\n\r\nDon't be ashamed. We're only human. Wont do it again\r\n(so blatantly antway) if we have to waste some more sheeple.\r\nHow about another loan?","author":"Can't blame us, we didn't do it.","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 21:58:21","modified":"2003-06-25 21:58:21","fileurl":""},{"id":66981,"heading":"and another thing about Powell","article":"He was in charge of covering up the Me Lai massacre and his son runs the FCC.\r\nHE has a degree in Geology, you know which rocks have oil and which dont.......","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-25 21:58:52","modified":"2003-06-25 21:58:52","fileurl":""},{"id":67005,"heading":"Jesus you people are thick","article":""the creation of hamas by the israeli right in sabotage of the peace process and of secular nationalist palestinians,as aptly shown in andromidas' article and as further proven by sharon never targeting hams leader yassin for assassination and letting rantisi flee in order to perpetuate the cycle of violence. "\r\n\r\nThis nonsense has been refuted, oh, about a dozen times so far in this thread.\r\n\r\nThe real travesty is that you idiots continue to embarrass yourselfs by insisting on beating a dead horse. \r\n\r\nThe premise is inane; has been roundly squashed by several people from every angle.\r\n\r\nGive it a rest. This one's DEAD.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 00:48:37","modified":"2003-06-26 00:48:37","fileurl":""},{"id":67006,"heading":"I give up","article":"you people have actually managed to bore me enough into leaving this place. Daveman, Fresca and Jewboy it was an bhonor cursing U out but I need to get back to the real world. I have realised that you people are just too stupid for me to deal with. Every thing that the arabs do is an attrocity and everything that the Israelis do is in retaliation. Keep fooling yourselves and keep trying to fool others. I would have liked to have carried on my discussions with U jewboy but two things and two things only stop me from doing that. Time or lack of and the mere fact that U have too many stupid things to say that need clearing up and I am certainly not bothered by your drivel. Your a nobody and always will be a nobody self righteous prick with a big nose.\r\n\r\nTo the rest I bid adieu. May God be the judge between us on who is the agressor and the victim. His justice is infinite and it will come soon enough. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 00:49:47","modified":"2003-06-26 00:49:47","fileurl":""},{"id":67007,"heading":"A man is known by the company he keeps...","article":"you people have actually managed to bore me enough into leaving this place. Daveman, Fresca and Jewboy it was an honor cursing U out but I need to get back to the real world. I have realised that you people are just too stupid for me to deal with. Every thing that the arabs do is an attrocity and everything that the Israelis do is in retaliation. Keep fooling yourselves and keep trying to fool others. I would have liked to have carried on my discussions with U jewboy but two things and two things only stop me from doing that. Time or lack of and the mere fact that U have too many stupid things to say that need clearing up and I am certainly not bothered by your drivel. Your a nobody and always will be a nobody self righteous prick with a big nose.\r\n\r\nTo the rest I bid adieu. May God be the judge between us on who is the agressor and the victim. His justice is infinite and it will come soon enough. On the Day of Judgement He will decide between the Israelis and the Palestinians. TIll then keep it real. Peace.","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 00:51:49","modified":"2003-06-26 00:51:49","fileurl":""},{"id":67010,"heading":"Whatever paki","article":"I actually wish you'd stick around. You are a perfect example of the young arab stupidity that plagues us all. \r\n\r\nGo spread your misinformed hate somewhere else then, if you must.\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, you are truly a hateful person of low intelligence so you probably will.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 01:21:26","modified":"2003-06-26 01:21:26","fileurl":""},{"id":67011,"heading":"by the way","article":""Your a nobody and always will be a nobody self righteous prick with a big nose. "\r\n\r\nYour attempt at even MORE racism (if that's even possible) betrays the most critical element of your delusion.\r\n\r\nAnd that is your illfounded and, frankly, stupid, belief that to defend Israel against subhuman breeders like hamas, one must be Jewsish.\r\n\r\nI'm not. Not even close. I just know right from wrong.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 01:25:55","modified":"2003-06-26 01:25:55","fileurl":""},{"id":67038,"heading":"GOOD RIDDANCE TO O-MAR IF...","article":"THIS ISN'T SOME KIND OF RUSE ON YOUR PART, O arch bigot O-mar. (note: O, mar. Your name befits you.) \r\n\r\nWhat you said reads to me like I've managed to run you out of this thread. \r\n\r\nIdiots like yourself reckon God must choose between Israelis and "Palestinians". This offers a fascinating insight into the workings of a Muslim anti-Semite extraordinaire.\r\n\r\nThe closest thing to the Day of Judgement will occur when the the Arab nations' crude oil pools dry up, then we'll see what detestable racist craphead homunculuses like yourself will say when their buddies at Foggy Bottom won't give a shit about oil interests anymore. \r\n\r\nI'll miss your comments for one reason alone: every now and then you've been diverting attention away from the inane balderdash the conspiracy molls, trolls and professional dorks spout here ad infinitum. \r\n\r\nYou've indeed aptly demonstrated a man is known by the company he keeps. Your thoughts are a pitiful embodiment of moral relativism, "evenhandedness" and pathetic attempts at political correctness. Only a cockhead that you are can produce such intensely loathsome rantings and ravings.\r\n\r\nO benighted narrowminded ignoramus dimwit, with his head perpetually up his rear, may peace come to your dark soul. Amen Ve'Amen, Hallelujah","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 04:21:58","modified":"2003-06-26 04:21:58","fileurl":""},{"id":67046,"heading":"To daveman, fresca, Bush admirer:","article":">>"The real travesty is that you idiots continue to embarrass yourselfs by insisting on beating a dead horse." \r\n\r\nThere's no way to reason with lunatics.\r\n \r\nNote how they're now trying to nitpick regarding LaRouche, EIR and those quotes in order to prove me wrong, only to end up further revealing their true anti-Semitic colors. \r\nThey are very rabid anti-Semite, pure and simple. \r\n\r\nTheirs is an upside down world. They can never grasp the depths of their insanity. They're in this for the business or the job - they're getting paid to upload all their tripe. \r\n\r\nPerhaps we should all ignore them by discussing any other topic. Any takers?","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 09:40:11","modified":"2003-06-26 09:40:11","fileurl":""},{"id":67074,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""Unfortunately, you are truly a hateful person of low intelligence..."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 12:19:24","modified":"2003-06-26 12:19:24","fileurl":""},{"id":67078,"heading":"What an assmole","article":"Trollmole, \r\neither provide counterarguments to fresca's or shut the fuck up and give O-mar a blowjob.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 12:27:19","modified":"2003-06-26 12:27:19","fileurl":""},{"id":67079,"heading":"^","article":"That's the level of (un)intelligent discourse I've come to expect from conservatives.","author":"anti-moron","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 12:37:19","modified":"2003-06-26 12:37:19","fileurl":""},{"id":67080,"heading":"^","article":"It's not that I'n conservative.\r\n\r\nI'm only imitating the style all the pathetic paranoid conspiracy junkies employ here. This seems to be the bon-ton here.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 12:44:52","modified":"2003-06-26 12:44:52","fileurl":""},{"id":67130,"heading":"I changed my mind","article":"You fucking faggots did U actually think bitch and a jew could run me off this thing. Fuck yeah Im a paki and I am so proud of it. A corn eating heffer like U FresCOW who doesnt know shit about shit, will actually think thats a bad thing. You are a racist. I told u its like the kettle calling the pot black. As for U jewboy I hope U enjoyed the two seconds where U actually think you ran me off.. hahaha... I told U ur stupid. I told U ur a self righteous big nosed prick. See U tomorrow fags and bitches where I will dig into U again... LOSERS ;)","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 15:36:02","modified":"2003-06-26 15:36:02","fileurl":""},{"id":67199,"heading":"I'm glad you're back","article":"Did you bring my slurpee?","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 20:42:15","modified":"2003-06-26 20:42:15","fileurl":""},{"id":67207,"heading":"Wow","article":"Omar, I gotta ask:\r\n\r\nWhat's it like hating someone for no other reason than their religion?","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-26 21:04:07","modified":"2003-06-26 21:04:07","fileurl":""},{"id":67248,"heading":"Cuz me","article":"I hate people not only for thier religion,\r\nbut also for thier nationality (like the French)\r\nand for their political views (all democrats suck)\r\nand pretty much what ever else Fox news and GW tell me is bad.\r\nI'm just a brainwashed american patriot.\r\n(but i would never get a real combat job because im too much of a pussy)","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 00:15:55","modified":"2003-06-27 00:15:55","fileurl":""},{"id":67255,"heading":"HA!!","article":"no I didnt for two reasons. One you need to go on a diet and secondly in case ur stupid ass has not noticed ur meant to pour them out yourselves. Please look at my previous offer for "pulling u a slurpee". My offer still stands :D","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 02:14:37","modified":"2003-06-27 02:14:37","fileurl":""},{"id":67258,"heading":"Daveman snf Jewbag","article":"None of U cock suckers (especially U Freca *HINT* are judge and jury. \r\n\r\nI dont hate anybody for their religion. I have a lot of friends and they come from all different religions, including Judaism. See the thing is if people like Jewbag wanna use unfair methods of arguing then Ill use whatever methods will get under their skin. \r\n\r\nIm not givig U an explanation im telling u how it is. \r\n\r\nNow when U have racist hoes like FresCUNT hypocritically act like they are not racsit then I give them a dose too. If Frescow had any self respect she would leave this site for good. Shes made to look too stupid. \r\n\r\nAS FOR JEWBAG I DONT HAVE THE FUCKING TIME TO ANSWER ALL OF UR SHIT SO FROM NOW ON ILL TARGET JUST THE ONE THAT Im bothered to answer, Jesus get a Job Jewbag. Some people just think their winning their arguments on this thing cuz even when their taking a shit their typing on this thing. \r\n\r\nNO MOTHERFUCKER\r\n\r\nMY time is as precious as urs isnt so im gonna rip your ass up with the vomit that I wanna target. Fucking glue sniffing shit stabbing sausage jockey\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 02:27:09","modified":"2003-06-27 02:27:09","fileurl":""},{"id":67265,"heading":"eyes rolling","article":"Omar, you are an idiot (shaking head) and an embarrassment.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 02:50:43","modified":"2003-06-27 02:50:43","fileurl":""},{"id":67275,"heading":"Now I'm relieved","article":"Oh good, we're still not discussing yet the dumb junk touted by the trolls and moles! So far so good!\r\n\r\nAh yeah, seems like O-mar doesn't hate Dio. But then, who knows? We'll never know what O-mar really feels about him...we can't get into his hate infested mind and decipher his true feelings toward Dio. The one think cock O-mar forgot is I've made him look like a laughingstock almost every time he tried getting under my skin (foreskin?).\r\nOnly now it hit me...our knuklehead doesn't hurl big nose epithets at me and has never implied he expects me to lie coz I'm Jewish. \r\nWhat a topsy-turvy world...O-mar projects his unfairness unto me. You, being the racist Jew hating knucklehead ignoramus that you are, cannot refute most of my arguments and try passing off your adversity as lack of time...hahaha!! Dummy. Your rear is now yearning for the head you stuck out...shove it back up. Your mouth needs replenishment for your next gorging session.\r\n\r\nI HAVE a job dickhead. The thing is you must get a GRIP. Godspeed.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 03:46:04","modified":"2003-06-27 03:46:04","fileurl":""},{"id":67307,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""...I've made him look like a laughingstock..."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." ","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 10:22:30","modified":"2003-06-27 10:22:30","fileurl":""},{"id":67325,"heading":"BACK TO THE POINT YEAH","article":"NO MATTER how many times the bushiit spammer-troll daveman=fresca=omar=screwboy etc. tries to obfuscate this thread with his baseless hogwash:\r\n\r\nthe point here continues to be:\r\n\r\nsharon=hamas,i.e. the israeli right created\/sponsored hamas as a trojan horse to fuck up the leftwing secular nationalist plo;\r\n\r\nand sharon is still using hamas as its tool today by refusing to target hamas leader sheikh yassin for assassination and letting rantisi flee.\r\n\r\njust like bush never targets osama or saddam etc:\r\n\r\nbecause govt terrorists worlwide need home-made fanatic assholes to sabotage peace and continue profiting from war.\r\n\r\nand if the mole keeps refusing to address this - well by now we know that he can't,but you can swat a flie and the bugger will keep comin' back to put it with Yorke - you just need to keep swattin'.\r\n\r\nthi whore by the handles "daveman" etc is payed to vomit his drivel on indy 24\/7 - so what did you expect,","author":"BACK TO THE POINT YEAH","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:17:48","modified":"2003-06-27 11:17:48","fileurl":""},{"id":67326,"heading":"Uh, look:","article":"apparently you're some sort of Islamist apologist - at any rate O-mar's resident apologist so far - and I wonder if all you intend to do here is take one statement about O-mar by myself, fresca and daveman at a time and refute it entering the title "Logical Fallacy" and then saying "unsubstantiated allegation", or perhaps you have other designs as well. \r\nIf you've opted only for the former, your postings will come across as ridiculous.\r\n\r\nAnyway, I disagree with your current argument and with at least half of your first - Omar IS a truly hateful individual whether you like it or not. The extent and nature of one's hatred can be told by his writings, and O-mar has written quite a lot so far.\r\n\r\nFor the meantime you haven't exhibited an impressive capacity of intelligent debate yourself. Your method of O-mar apology is lame.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:24:34","modified":"2003-06-27 11:24:34","fileurl":""},{"id":67328,"heading":"MY PREVIOUS POSTING","article":"My previous posting referred to the individual posting under "debate coach". \r\n\r\nI welcome his reply or anyone else's input on his method of apology. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:31:19","modified":"2003-06-27 11:31:19","fileurl":""},{"id":67331,"heading":"Thank you debate coach...","article":"fresca you stupid cow... why arent u out grazing in the fields? \r\n\r\n"Omar, you are an idiot (shaking head) and an embarrassment." \r\n\r\nWhen u shake ur head does the bell around ur neck make a lot of noise... im an embaressment? to whom? You dont know anybody I know. an embaressment to you??? YOU WISH. \r\n\r\nNow for my favorite faggot\r\n\r\n"Oh good, we're still not discussing yet the dumb junk touted by the trolls and moles! So far so good"\r\n\r\nhuh? what the fuck did U just say?\r\n\r\n"The one think cock O-mar forgot is I've made him look like a laughingstock almost every time he tried getting under my skin (foreskin?). "\r\n\r\nAh yes, oh indeed, good golly. You really are gay arent you? DUMMY? Did u actually use that word? under your foreskin? you should change your name to fagboy.This isnt the fantasy channel buddy. I thought you were homosexual but now im convinced. what will your boyfriend think if he found out about this fagboy?\r\n\r\n"Only now it hit me...our knuklehead doesn't hurl big nose epithets at me and has never implied he expects me to lie coz I'm Jewish" \r\n\r\ntold you you were stupid :D\r\n\r\n"What a topsy-turvy world...O-mar projects his unfairness unto me" \r\n\r\noh poor little jewish you. the whole world is out to get you and project thier unfairness unto thee. It has nothing to do with the fact that we can see and use our intellect. Yes we cant tell the difference between an army crushing civilians. We all dont know of Jenin, Nablus in Ramallah, we all dont know of the so called collateral damage that is cause everyday. poor poor u. must be so difficult to pull that trigger.\r\n\r\n"You, being the racist Jew hating knucklehead ignoramus that you are"\r\n\r\nSTOP CURSING ME...... like a little bitch :D hahahaha\r\n\r\n"cannot refute most of my arguments and try passing off your adversity as lack of time...hahaha"\r\n\r\nHAHAHAHAHAHhahahahahahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaHHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahaha.. \r\n\r\ndont kid yourself darling. It just takes a minute on google.com to type in ISRAELI ATROCITIES and I get all the information I need. Welcome to the information age. Thats the difference between me and U. Because U lie u think when everybody is talking their lying too. When i say I dont have time it means I dont have time to do the research to ANSWER ALL OF UR LIES. does that make sense fagboy\r\n\r\nNow im gonna take it easy on you cuz your such an ignoaramus kncukle head sandwhich :D have U hit puberty yet? \r\n\r\n"Your rear is now yearning for the head you stuck out...shove it back up. Your mouth needs replenishment for your next gorging session"\r\n\r\ndude here is a piece of advice. Stick to statistics and leaving the cursing to me ;)\r\n\r\n"I HAVE a job dickhead. \r\n\r\nSo u claim. \r\n\r\n"The thing is you must get a GRIP. Godspeed."\r\n\r\nthe only grip i need is around ur neck fagboy... hahaha. NOW GET BACK TO WORK SLACKER....\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:34:41","modified":"2003-06-27 11:34:41","fileurl":""},{"id":67332,"heading":"screwboy=omar etc...","article":"look cocksucker:\r\n\r\nnoone here cares about your self-multiplied monikers intended to show there's more than a right-wing wanker at a time on a site like indy - and to discredit muslims by ridiculizing them under aliases leke "omar" (what a cliche name - something less obvious next time please).\r\n\r\nall we're interested here is the point at issue:\r\n\r\nthe creation of hamas by the likud as stated by none less than us ambassador to israel kurtzer;\r\n\r\nand the ongoing protection accorded to hamas by sharon who refuses to target sheikh yassin for assassination.\r\n\r\neither stick to the point or you're only wastin' illegally-diverted taxpayers' money,you shitstick.\r\n\r\nkill yerself.","author":"screwboy=omar etc.","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:38:13","modified":"2003-06-27 11:38:13","fileurl":""},{"id":67333,"heading":"Help","article":"Could somebody teach me what "logic" is?","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:46:59","modified":"2003-06-27 11:46:59","fileurl":""},{"id":67335,"heading":"^","article":"I'm the real "Jewboy". \r\nThe previous message is fake.\r\n\r\nWho's the gutless coward hijacking my moniker?????","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:50:53","modified":"2003-06-27 11:50:53","fileurl":""},{"id":67338,"heading":"again never mind mole obfuscation","article":"they or rather he gets to the point of inventing someone hijacking his moniker...obvious,well-known pathetic tactics.\r\n\r\nwho do you think you can still fool shitstick.\r\n\r\ndo anything to obfuscate the point but it won't work - the point being:\r\n\r\nisrael created hamas as a counterweight to the leftwing plo 30 years ago - and is still using it as its tool as proven by sharon never targeting yassin for assassination - and killing hamas small fish to provoke hamas reaction each and every time there's a peace or truce to sabotage.","author":"never mind mole obfuscation","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 11:57:16","modified":"2003-06-27 11:57:16","fileurl":""},{"id":67341,"heading":"Dickhead O-mar","article":"">>oh poor little jewish you. the whole world is out to get you and project thier unfairness unto thee. It has nothing to do with the fact that we can see and use our intellect. Yes we cant tell the difference between an army crushing civilians. We all dont know of Jenin, Nablus in Ramallah, we all dont know of the so called collateral damage that is cause everyday. poor poor u. must be so difficult to pull that trigger. "\r\n\r\nYou're a fucking brainwashed indoctrinated bigot. No, scratch that. You're a caricature of an rif-raf 17 year old "Palestinian" firing an AK-47 during frenzied funeral processions and yelling "death to America, death to Israel!!!". \r\n\r\n>>"dont kid yourself darling. It just takes a minute on google.com to type in ISRAELI ATROCITIES and I get all the information I need. Welcome to the information age. Thats the difference between me and U. Because U lie u think when everybody is talking their lying too. When i say I dont have time it means I dont have time to do the research to ANSWER ALL OF UR LIES. does that make sense fagboy "\r\n\r\nSame as above.\r\n\r\nNow get the fuck off the dole and get back to your 7-11 shift, geezer.\r\n\r\nPS: you were asked what's your take on the Hamma massacre. I'd like to see it N-O-W! ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:04:06","modified":"2003-06-27 12:04:06","fileurl":""},{"id":67342,"heading":"as proven by the latest sharon murders","article":"iht.,today (from the nyt):\r\n>>an israeli military aircraft fired missiles into two cars wednesday,killing a man and a woman and wounding 15,including the intended target,a member of the military wing of hamas.<<\r\n\r\nagain the usual fascist sharon pattern of murder:\r\n\r\njust when the palestinians are finally coming together for a truce (>>...as israel and the palestinians were continuing efforts to work out a cease fire<<),sharon chooses to continue his targeted assassination bullcrap farce although in ther most recent poll 67% of israelis have expressed themselves against it.\r\n\r\nbut he provokes hamas by hitting small fish or medium fish as qawesme the other day but never ever the goddam yassin - sharon's best friend.","author":"as proven by the latest sharon murders","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:04:43","modified":"2003-06-27 12:04:43","fileurl":""},{"id":67345,"heading":" "debate coach".","article":"I'm still waiting for you to quit playing games such as hijacking my moniker and come on out to explain why you think your method of O-mar apology is "all that", and to hear if you intend on to be a one-pupose participant here.\r\n\r\nForget about cowardise and courage. Do you have intellectual honesty and integrity??? ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:18:01","modified":"2003-06-27 12:18:01","fileurl":""},{"id":67346,"heading":"right","article":""PS: you were asked what's your take on the Hamma massacre. I'd like to see it N-O-W! "\r\n\r\nAs I suspected, that particular atrocity doesn't count as it wasn't "perpetrated" by Jews or Americans.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:21:17","modified":"2003-06-27 12:21:17","fileurl":""},{"id":67348,"heading":"Nope","article":""You're a fucking brainwashed indoctrinated bigot. No, scratch that. You're a caricature of an rif-raf 17 year old "Palestinian" firing an AK-47 during frenzied funeral processions and yelling "death to America, death to Israel!!!". "\r\n\r\nHow many times do I have to use this line? THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK. HA!!! only death to Israel buddy. I love America. This my homeland motherfucker. Dont even for a second think that they are one and the same thing U fucking retard. \r\n\r\n"Now get the fuck off the dole and get back to your 7-11 shift, geezer. \r\n\r\n*yawn* I can see how your so original. \r\n\r\n"you were asked what's your take on the Hamma massacre. I'd like to see it N-O-W! "\r\n\r\nwhat r ur takes on the Jenin and Ramallah massacres? you would like to see it now???? use that line on your boyfriend and it just might get you somewhere. \r\n\r\n"Forget about cowardise and courage. Do you have intellectual honesty and integrity??? "\r\n\r\nDo you? Do u know what the words honesty and integrity mean? \r\n\r\nJOB SLACKER JOB :D","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:27:49","modified":"2003-06-27 12:27:49","fileurl":""},{"id":67350,"heading":"Hysteria, hysteria","article":">>"How many times do I have to use this line? THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK."\r\n\r\nI don't give a crap what you feel you must do. I can recall at least one other favorite line of yours - your infantile "Evenhandedness" punchline "WHAT'S FOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS FOOD FOR THE GANDER". (Laughter...)\r\n\r\n>>" HA!!! only death to Israel buddy. I love America. This my homeland motherfucker. Dont even for a second think that they are one and the same thing U fucking retard."\r\n\r\nAnd this comes from out favorite riff-raff cockhead who, while squirming in front of his Muslim fellow, vehemently denied he ("we") hates Israel. You're a grand infantile liar, O-mar. Everyone with a 1\/4 of a brain cell can see it. Yeah, we understand your predicament...DECISIONS, DECISIONS!\r\n\r\n>>"what r ur takes on the Jenin and Ramallah massacres? use that line on your boyfriend and it just might get you somewhere. "\r\n\r\nYour drag girlfriend will open up to you much more if you quit asking a queston instead of answering what you've been asked. Hey jerk stop thinking people are always trying to taunt and tease you. Answer the goddamn Hamma question already.\r\n\r\n<<"Do you? Do u know what the words honesty and integrity mean?"\r\n\r\nShut the fuck up, O-mar. I was asking your apologizer and STILL waiting for his reply. Butt out.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:47:28","modified":"2003-06-27 12:47:28","fileurl":""},{"id":67352,"heading":"omar","article":"Typical.\r\n\r\nYou actually don't even know what the Hama massacre is and you're too fucking stupid to do a simple search for it and try to hide your ignorance (I'll bet your searching now though, dolt).\r\n\r\nAnd as far as the "massacres" in Jenin and Ramalah...my take is this. There seems to be overwhelming evidence from international inspectors that these "massacres" simply didn't occur.\r\n\r\nTry again racist.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:50:09","modified":"2003-06-27 12:50:09","fileurl":""},{"id":67353,"heading":"omar=fresca=jewboy=etc.","article":"this moronic assmole continues his little game of self-multiplying and creating mock-arabs to deride...\r\n\r\nwhat an obvious pathetic obfuscator.\r\n\r\nas for his vain attempt at obfuscating the truth - fly-swattin' is what he gets each time he bugs us.\r\n\r\nthe israeli right not only created hamas 30 years ago in sabotage of secular peace-prone plo palestinians - \r\nno,sharon continues the hamas-tool policy by \r\nprotecting sheikh yassin from targeted assassination and letting rantisi flee and killing hamas smallfish or mediumfish to provoke hamas reaction and sabotage the peace process each and every time truce talks are in progress.\r\n\r\nlike most recently on wednesday when sharon killed another umpteen hamas smallfish,an innocent woman and wounded 15 innocent as usual - just when truce talks were in serious progress.\r\n\r\nand all this shows sharon a fucking fascist because according to the most recent poll 67% OF ISRAELIS oppose sharon's plocy of targeted assassinations and want it to stop.\r\n\r\nsharon is the worst jew-massmurderer since hitler.","author":"omar=fresca=jewboy=etc.","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:53:45","modified":"2003-06-27 12:53:45","fileurl":""},{"id":67354,"heading":"O-MAR...","article":"see you tomorrow. I gotta go do other things now.\r\n\r\nI wanna see your answer about the Hamma incident by tomorrow.\r\nNow go do your homework sweetie.","author":""Jewboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 12:58:02","modified":"2003-06-27 12:58:02","fileurl":""},{"id":67357,"heading":"Fagboy","article":""i don't give a crap what you feel you must do. I can recall at least one other favorite line of yours - your infantile "Evenhandedness" punchline "WHAT'S FOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS FOOD FOR THE GANDER". (Laughter...)"\r\n\r\nwhy are u laughing u idiot? was there a point to what U just wrote? when u figure it out please do let us know.\r\n\r\n"And this comes from out favorite riff-raff cockhead who, while squirming in front of his Muslim fellow, vehemently denied he ("we") hates Israel" \r\n\r\nWalt disney SHOULD have had ur imagination... squirming?? u crack me up. If I remember correctly I said that if Israel gave the palestinians their homeland I would have no problem with Israel. Dont put words in my mouth motherfucker and dont misquote me either u lieing son of a bitch.\r\n\r\n"You're a grand infantile liar"\r\n\r\nTHE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.... hahaha\r\n\r\n"Everyone with a 1\/4 of a brain cell can see it." \r\n\r\n1\/4 of a brain cell. Noone on this planet has a 1\/4 of a brain cell u idiot. The largest structure in the brain, the cerebral cortex is the headquarters of most human intellect (note fagboy and fresca are not human) - often referred to as "gray matter." The large surface area of the cortex houses two-thirds of the brain's 100 billion neurons in a thin layer, only slightly thicker than the peel of an orange\r\n\r\n"Your drag girlfriend will open up to you much more if you quit asking a queston instead of answering what you've been asked. Hey jerk stop thinking people are always trying to taunt and tease you. Answer the goddamn Hamma question already. "\r\n\r\nDo not use God's name in vain. Hey jerk stop thinking people are always trying to taunt and tease you. Answer the Jenin and ramallah question already.\r\n\r\n"Shut the fuck up, O-mar. I was asking your apologizer and STILL waiting for his reply. Butt out."\r\n\r\ntemper ... temper. You were asking MY apologizer and U want me to butt out. First of all little jewboy hes not my apologizer. He, like a lot of people on this thing cant stand U, in case U havent noticed. Secondly he, like a lot of people on INDY, can see ur a hypocritical little shit with a lot of spare time on his little hands, thirdly this is not Israel it is indymedia.org and I can say whatever the fuck I want to whoever the fuck I want and U cant do a damn thing about it.... SLACKER\r\n\r\n","author":"The one and only","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 13:14:39","modified":"2003-06-27 13:14:39","fileurl":""},{"id":67358,"heading":"Again..for the idiots and liars","article":"Sitting here reading all these posts, it struck as so typical that this charge would eventually surface. \r\n\r\nHow predictable that when faced with refutation after refutation from Jewboy, myself, daveman and others, the sheep around here would ultimately throw out this absurdity. \r\n\r\nIt's gotten harder and harder for the nuts (not simply liberals or leftists but just plain deluded) to apaologize and rationalize the actions of hamas et.al and those "palestinian victims" who wholeheartedly support them. So hard in fact, that someone eventually culls a missive from some dubious source at best, telling us all the true cause of all the violence. That the Jews, in essence, are attacking themselves for, as more than one complete IDIOT posted, huge profits. \r\n\r\nIsrael has formed a group of Islamic subhuman murderers and charged them with the mission of killing ALL JEWS and all those in close proximity to ALL JEWS. What's more, the proof of this theory is that Israel has failed to hunt down and kill the head of this group of animals. Faulty logic? Not even close. No logic at all. \r\n\r\nFurthermore, if and when Israel does in fact put down this scumbag, the sheep in the "hate Israel at any cost " camp will ponit to that as even more proof of Sharon's masterminding of hamas. After all what better way to throw of suspicion than to raise a false flag. \r\n\r\nThis thread has gotten ENTIRELY to much coverage based on how utterly non-sensical it is in it's implications. \r\n\r\nEVERY single element of it has been refuted over and over agin with virtually no effort by Jewboy and the rest of us. \r\n\r\nIt's simply silly.\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 13:21:36","modified":"2003-06-27 13:21:36","fileurl":""},{"id":67359,"heading":"your not fooling anybody jewbag :D","article":"I know ur still there reading INDYMEDIA :D I know your ass hasnt got a job... hehehe... cant fool us. \r\n\r\nFresca you still here? what the fuck for? isnt it very clear that the only person ur making sense to is U u stupid cow. \r\n\r\nHey Jewbag if u wanna prove ur not gay marry fresca. I think the cow is impressed by you. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 13:28:05","modified":"2003-06-27 13:28:05","fileurl":""},{"id":67378,"heading":""Jewboy"","article":"Watch out!!! "debate coach" is watching you from across the street with binoculars!!! Get back into your straightjacket, you paranoid psycho.","author":"anti-psycho","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 13:53:32","modified":"2003-06-27 13:53:32","fileurl":""},{"id":67386,"heading":"frescasshole\/umpteen","article":">>Israel has formed a group of Islamic subhuman murderers and charged them with the mission of killing ALL JEWS and all those in close proximity to ALL JEWS. What's more, the proof of this theory is that Israel has failed to hunt down and kill the head of this group of animals. Faulty logic? Not even close. No logic at all. \r\n\r\nFurthermore, if and when Israel does in fact put down this scumbag, the sheep in the "hate Israel at any cost " camp will ponit to that as even more proof of Sharon's masterminding of hamas<<<\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nevidence for your bullcrap? none,as usual.\r\n\r\nwell if you think that repeating your baseless hogwash ad infinitum will make it credible we have to tell you - it only makes you looke more like the fool\/tool you are.\r\n","author":"frescasshole\/umpteen","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 14:02:20","modified":"2003-06-27 14:02:20","fileurl":""},{"id":67395,"heading":"piss on the obfuscator","article":"..."jewboy"=fresca=daveman=omar...\r\n\r\nyer pathetically obvious self-multiplying + spamming shit on this thread has utterly failed moley - save the world - kill yerself,have a car crash or sth.\r\ntonight.\r\n\r\nback to the point:\r\n\r\nit was us ambassador to israel daniel kurtzer not a leftwing radical who pointed his finger at israeli rightwing sponsoring of hamas since its beginning - \r\n\r\njust like the us govt did with the taliban.\r\n\r\nand today:\r\n\r\nsharon perpetuates hamas violence by refusing to target for assassination the only person it would make sense to target:\r\n\r\nhams leader sheikh yassin.\r\n\r\nwho wants peace if you can profit from war?\r\n\r\njust like bush never gets mullah omar or osam or any of them friends of his. ","author":"piss on the obfuscator","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 14:09:20","modified":"2003-06-27 14:09:20","fileurl":""},{"id":67412,"heading":"Answer","article":"Stop ignoring the 8 innocent civilians who died in Jenin!","author":"To Jewboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 14:27:33","modified":"2003-06-27 14:27:33","fileurl":""},{"id":67415,"heading":"Omar","article":"Go ski off of Jewboy's nose, shitbird.","author":"Eric","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 14:30:04","modified":"2003-06-27 14:30:04","fileurl":""},{"id":67446,"heading":"shit on the obfuscator","article":"...=omar=govt spammer payde with illegally diverted taxpayers' money to soil indyla 24\/7.\r\n\r\nback to the point:\r\n\r\nsharon's ongoing tragic farce of the targeted assassinations carefully and deliberately avoids targeting the much-needede enemy sheikh yassin so as to perpetuate the violence and the sabotage of peace and of secular leftwing palestinians.\r\n\r\nmoreover it's a fascist policy in that it tramps the will of a vast majority of israelis (67% according to the latest poll) underfoot.\r\n\r\nand the self-multiplied troll instead of addressing these very real issues - which he can't - keeps on with his little obvious pathetic obfuscation games.","author":"eric=daveman=jewboy...","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 16:18:57","modified":"2003-06-27 16:18:57","fileurl":""},{"id":67470,"heading":"You forgot to add...","article":"Ned Lyle has so much time on his hands, sitting in that little shop that no one visits, that he can't help himself from creating a crowd of morons to make him feel less lonely. Perhaps we should all send him an email and ask how the whole gang in his head are doing?\r\n\r\nsarge@compnla.com\r\n","author":"KOBE SBM = Rational Normal Person = Eric etal","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 16:46:35","modified":"2003-06-27 16:46:35","fileurl":""},{"id":67499,"heading":"ROFL","article":""payde with illegally diverted taxpayers' money to soil indyla 24\/7. "\r\n\r\nMan, you get dumber with every post. And more deluded.\r\n\r\nTake a break from apologizing for the unevolved breeders of hamas and work on a new hairbrained theory. This one is getting tired and boring.\r\n\r\nYour insanity is not, however. You remain very amusing as always.\r\n\r\nMaybe try your hand at concocting an Israeli \/ 9-11 connection. Or maybe the secret Likud funding of Al Queda.\r\n\r\nC'mon...chop, chop...we need some new blood here!","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 17:43:29","modified":"2003-06-27 17:43:29","fileurl":""},{"id":67538,"heading":"to fresca and gehrig","article":"IMCP is back again\r\n\r\nGehrig, boycott sf-indymedia, why you bump all the time racist threads on sf-indy ?","author":"WELCOME BACK TO IMC PALESTINE DEBATE","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 20:59:25","modified":"2003-06-27 20:59:25","fileurl":""},{"id":67554,"heading":"Fresca ignore Omar","article":"I for one have no problems with marrying a woman with the intellectual superiority and morals of Fresca. I have found her to be intelligent and honest and I would welcome the chance to get to know her better; marriage or friendship","author":"Jewboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 22:08:28","modified":"2003-06-27 22:08:28","fileurl":""},{"id":67556,"heading":"I'm flattered","article":"I'm flattered Jewboy, but for the record, I'm a guy.\r\n\r\nNot sure where the fresca is female came from. I suspect it was a subtle use of juvenile sexism by Omar. I guess he thought I'd be offended. LOL.\r\n\r\nNot the brightest bulb on the 7-11 tree.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 22:13:19","modified":"2003-06-27 22:13:19","fileurl":""},{"id":67560,"heading":"I think im gonna throw up","article":"fresca had a sex change. that explains a lot. And it is flattered. Why dont u two get a room u sick fucks? Man this is disgusting. \r\n\r\nFeel some fucking shame and keep your private shit behind closed doors. You two ARE shit stabbing sausage jockeys. I dont think that jewbag is gonna let a twig and giggle berries stand in the way of true love. Move to Canada. Its legal for gays to marry there. just dont adopt any kids or try and have any either :D they will be stupid fucking kids :D\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 22:24:23","modified":"2003-06-27 22:24:23","fileurl":""},{"id":67562,"heading":"Good thing...","article":"...I'm not gay. Who knows when some member of the gutter cult of Islam might hunt me down.\r\n\r\nSuch a peaceful religion.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-27 22:29:58","modified":"2003-06-27 22:29:58","fileurl":""},{"id":67610,"heading":"if ur not gay then why are u flattered....","article":"ease out of the closet motherfucker; dont jump out. Even ur name is fit for a faggot but now that ur love for each other is out in the open why not celebrate it. After all I dont think Jewfag will mind marrying a woman of your integrity... hahahaha","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 01:51:50","modified":"2003-06-28 01:51:50","fileurl":""},{"id":67626,"heading":"yeah,yeah,yeah","article":"Still waiting to hear your thoughts on Hama and the peace-loving coping skills of Islam, Omar.\r\n\r\nStill searching?","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 03:39:13","modified":"2003-06-28 03:39:13","fileurl":""},{"id":67630,"heading":"The racist dolt O-mar...","article":"came back to class once more.\r\n\r\n>>"why are u laughing u idiot? was there a point to what U just wrote? when u figure it out please do let us know. "\r\n\r\nI'm laughing because you're an infantile dolt. You think you're fooling anyone by resorting to an alias, O-mar?\r\n\r\n>>"Walt disney SHOULD have had ur imagination... squirming?? u crack me up. If I remember correctly I said that if Israel gave the palestinians their homeland I would have no problem with Israel. Dont put words in my mouth motherfucker and dont misquote me either u lieing son of a bitch. "\r\n\r\nYou've already said a few pathetic, laughable things that don't square, you pitiful idiot.\r\n\r\n>>1\/4 of a brain cell. Noone on this planet has a 1\/4 of a brain cell u idiot. The largest structure in the brain, the cerebral cortex is the headquarters of most human intellect..."\r\n\r\nYou're the one who initially uterred the "anyone with 1\/2 a brain cell could see it" line. So you're barking up the wrong tree,- first and foremost you've got to teach yourself. \r\n\r\n>>"Do not use God's name in vain. Hey jerk stop thinking people are always trying to taunt and tease you. Answer the Jenin and ramallah question already."\r\n\r\nStop plagiarising and don't try teaching me religious ethics, especially not by hijacking my Ten Commandments for this purpose. They're mine, not yours. There's no question about Jenin and Ramallah. As for Jenin, you probably heard the news but insist on ignoring it since it doesn't jibe with your racist views about Jews and Zionism. \r\n\r\n>>"First of all little jewboy hes not my apologizer. He, like a lot of people on this thing cant stand U, in case U havent noticed. Secondly he, like a lot of people on INDY, can see ur a hypocritical little shit with a lot of spare time on his little hands, thirdly this is not Israel it is indymedia.org and I can say whatever the fuck I want to whoever the fuck I want and U cant do a damn thing about it..."\r\n\r\nSo far he HAS been your apologist. Secondly, you're speaking in many people's name without being authorized by them to do so. Thirdly, you can't prove what your dick excuse for a mind thinks many folks here feel about me. Lastly, I'm glad there's unfettered freedom of speech on this website. It enables dolty jerks like yourself to make a fool out of themselves to the fullest extent possible for all the public to see. And the public draws its conclusions about you.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 03:51:59","modified":"2003-06-28 03:51:59","fileurl":""},{"id":67631,"heading":"The fool O-mar fools himself","article":"(Response to O-mar's posting from June 26, 2003 09:28 AM)\r\n\r\nYou're no fucking psychic or clairvoyant, so stop purporting to know whether or not I have a job, knucklehead.\r\nYou're the juicer here. Prove you aren't! I think you suffer guilt from being a juicer.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 04:00:32","modified":"2003-06-28 04:00:32","fileurl":""},{"id":67632,"heading":""Anti-psycho",","article":"you're a Cartoon Network figure wanabee. You've yet to prove us you have a clean bill of mental health, you stupid simpleton. \r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 04:06:16","modified":"2003-06-28 04:06:16","fileurl":""},{"id":67633,"heading":"Who is Eric?","article":"Yet another anti-Semite. And a simpleton at that, too.\r\n\r\nEric, go suck David Duke's cock and balls, filthy swine.\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 04:16:39","modified":"2003-06-28 04:16:39","fileurl":""},{"id":67635,"heading":"Fresca, ignore "debate coach"","article":"This lowlife buffoon posted yet another fake message on my behalf on June 26, 2003 06:08 PM.\r\n\r\nThis wiesel is too affraid and intellectually dishonest to come on out and answer what I've asked him\/her. What a grand chucklehead this "coach" is.\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 04:26:56","modified":"2003-06-28 04:26:56","fileurl":""},{"id":67636,"heading":"O-mar. A Hindu apostate??","article":"(His posting from June 26, 2003 06:24 PM)\r\n\r\nThis O-mar has an obsessiom with cows. He has yet to prove fresca is a heifer or a cow. What gives??? - Perhaps he's a Kashmiri Hindu apostate who was converted to Islam by a Wahabbi Saudi Imam, yet can't get cows and their sex life out of his system. Old habits die hard, you know. \r\n\r\nWait a moment, dickhead O-mar. The phrase is actually "glue sniffing shit stabbing sausage jockey". Why did you drop the beginning, sucker? And while you explain your goof, prove fresca was wrong to brand you and idiot and an embarrassment by enlightening us about the meaning of this drivel. \r\n\r\nYou're throwing up all the time. Your thought process (lack thereof, to be precise) has nothing to do with it. You've already vomitted a few times during this session. Now stick your mouth back up your ass for replenishment.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 04:46:28","modified":"2003-06-28 04:46:28","fileurl":""},{"id":67638,"heading":"O, mar! Again?!","article":"(The June 26, 2003 09:51 PM posting)\r\n\r\nHave you managed to kick the cow addiction by now, or is this a temporary remission?!\r\n\r\nYou still haven't proven I'm gay. Your reasoning might be, judging by your postings thus far, that countering your lies, half truths, distortions, misinformation and propaganda and refuting them makes me qualify. \r\n\r\nIf that's your evidence, it's even a safer bet your favorite jerking off environment is to have your dick submerged in sewage in the process. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 05:00:58","modified":"2003-06-28 05:00:58","fileurl":""},{"id":67647,"heading":"Some more words to","article":"O-mar: \r\nyou're a very disturbed individual on top of what I and others have already said about you.\r\n\r\nYou're a genuine TRASHBAG. Tell us, have you been enjoying wallowing in the gutter? ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 08:10:46","modified":"2003-06-28 08:10:46","fileurl":""},{"id":67689,"heading":""Jewboy"","article":"Shut the fuck up and go rent out your nose for billboard space.","author":"daveman","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 12:24:58","modified":"2003-06-28 12:24:58","fileurl":""},{"id":67692,"heading":"above","article":"bad attempt at handle hijacking above.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 12:31:43","modified":"2003-06-28 12:31:43","fileurl":""},{"id":67701,"heading":"fresca","article":"That WAS me, you paranoid schizo.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 12:48:46","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":67783,"heading":"To everyone (including Dickhead O-mar and his "coach"):","article":"I'll now disclose something: my job hours are afternoon and evening, Sunday through Thursday. I stop posting when I need to head to work. I return from work and get some sleep. Afterwards I return to Indy in the wee hours of the next day - I like to see what others have posted and reply to more than a single poster. Then I take a long break from Indy and pursue other stuff. A few more hours later I return and take part in whatever happens here, provided it's not the LaRouchites posting their usual tired crap. On Fridays & Saturdays I have a different schedule as I wish. \r\n\r\nAs to O-mar's apologist, or should I say, his kindred soul dickhead, I hope most folks here have noticed his alias suggests he's a patronizing and condescending snob. Probably also an ultra-Liberal bleeding heart. When he's out of arguments and unable to defend himself and debate logically he starts expropriating monikers, like he's done to me and to daveman. I wouldn't be stunned if he's indeed a hyper-Liberal. I also think he has yet more naughty surprises in store for us. "debate coach", fuck off you and your ilk.\r\n\r\nFor the meantime though, there are 3 signs that give away a phony posting of mine: (A) A posting I deny. (B) One which features naughty humor or humor in general. (C) Those addressing myself containing stupid exhortations by the "coach" impersonating fresca, daveman, Bush Admirer and other people from the anti-Arab-stupidity camp. \r\n\r\nWatch out for more stunts from this "coach" asshole.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 14:46:03","modified":"2003-06-28 14:46:03","fileurl":""},{"id":67795,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""Even ur name is fit for a faggot "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 15:02:50","modified":"2003-06-28 15:02:50","fileurl":""},{"id":67818,"heading":"O-MAR !","article":"Your formerly kindred soul "coach" apologist has just slammed one of your arguments! Seems like the free ride he's given you is over. Disappointed? \r\nSeems like fairness is rearing its beautiful head on yet another front. \r\n\r\nWe're still awaiting your take on the Hama massacre. For ONCE, just once, could you please carry yourself as a serious debater and answer us?","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-28 15:26:47","modified":"2003-06-28 15:26:47","fileurl":""},{"id":67945,"heading":"10 fucking posts dude....","article":"im telling u this for ur own good. Get a life. \r\n\r\n"I'll now disclose something: my job hours are afternoon and evening, Sunday through Thursday. I stop posting when I need to head to work. I return from work and get some sleep. Afterwards I return to Indy in the wee hours of the next day - I like to see what others have posted and reply to more than a single poster. Then I take a long break from Indy and pursue other stuff. A few more hours later I return and take part in whatever happens here, provided it's not the LaRouchites posting their usual tired crap. On Fridays & Saturdays I have a different schedule as I wish. "\r\n\r\nactions speak louder than words & so u claim\r\n\r\n"As to O-mar's apologist, or should I say, his kindred soul dickhead, I hope most folks here have noticed his alias suggests he's a patronizing and condescending snob. Probably also an ultra-Liberal bleeding heart"\r\n\r\nstop talking like ur an authority & so u claim\r\n\r\n"For the meantime though, there are 3 signs that give away a phony posting of mine: (A) A posting I deny. (B) One which features naughty humor or humor in general. (C) Those addressing myself containing stupid exhortations by the "coach" impersonating fresca, daveman, Bush Admirer and other people from the anti-Arab-stupidity camp. "\r\n\r\nNie way to disown a posting & So u claim\r\n\r\n"Your formerly kindred soul "coach" apologist has just slammed one of your arguments! Seems like the free ride he's given you is over. Disappointed? \r\n\r\nHow do I know U didnt type that jewboy? It was probably you. \r\n\r\n"O-mar: \r\nyou're a very disturbed individual on top of what I and others have already said about you. "\r\n\r\nthis guy is special isnt he? Jewfag you're a very disturbed individual on top of what I and others have already said about you. Havent been reading this thing very thoroughly have u, U jobless fuck.... lol\r\n\r\nalso STOP CURSING ME LIKE A LITTLE BITCH. Your so pathetic... hahahaha.. Nothing like watching a gay man stand up for his partner. Admisrable the way you stand up for Fresca. Hey I might not like u as a human being but I will never stand in the way of true love... im sure Fresca is flattered by the way you stand up for him, her, it, whatever :D. But just a word of advice keep your private shit private.\r\n\r\n"We're still awaiting your take on the Hama massacre. For ONCE, just once, could you please carry yourself as a serious debater and answer us?" \r\n\r\nHow very convenient and selective of you. Why shouldnt we discuss the nablus and Ramallah massacres?\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 00:14:42","modified":"2003-06-29 00:14:42","fileurl":""},{"id":67949,"heading":"How did I think Fresca was a woman?","article":"Hey sausage jockey maybe the reason u came across as a woman was cuz of the following shit u wrote. Yeah buddy YOU ARE DEFINITELY NOT GAY\r\n\r\n1. want the whole world to know (and you know who you are) that I have never been fucked so hard in the ass. You were incredible. I couldnt stop shouting "Palestine" with every thrust up my ass. I will never be the same again. Forget Israel. Viva le Palestine. \r\n\r\n2. OOh, fresca...\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Tuesday June 17, 2003 07:53 AM\r\nI wasn't aware. I employed the first alias I could think of. Let me stay with it. :-)\r\n\r\nU usually speak like this oooohh Jewfag. Is this where the spark was lit :D ?\r\n\r\n"Sy$teMF,\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Thursday June 19, 2003 05:39 AM\r\nAs to fresca, I just wanna take exception to your 3rd line. I for one do not"\r\n\r\nyeah right ur not interested in each other\r\n\r\nYour perfect for each other. You love zionists, you have distorted realities, you suit one another and compliment each other, are both extremely racist and hypocritical. Hell U batty boys are a match made in HELL ;) \r\n\r\n10 fucking posts man. Whats the matter Jewfag cant hack it in the real world? Find comfort behind a keyboard and screen? Yur the odd one out arent U jewbag? Dont get the respect u think u deserve? Probably a stalker or mass murdeer in the making. All your postings do show a distorted vision of reality. Time to go to a psychiatrist buddy. These are disturbing signs :( \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 01:15:35","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:23","fileurl":""},{"id":67951,"heading":"put two and two together....","article":"Fresca u really are gay arent u and Im not kidding.\r\n\r\nYou picked a name like fresca which is a girls name, u argue for gay rights all the time, your flattered when Jewfag said that he wouldnt mind marrying u, you put posts where ur saying ur getting battered up the ass and U and Jewbag flirt on the net. Need I go on. \r\n\r\nFuck you really are gay. \r\n\r\nCongrats Jewfag UVE GOT URSELF A KEEPER. Maybe you two can get married and move to israel and hopefully youll get caught in some cross fire :D .... sausage jockeys","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 01:24:13","modified":"2003-06-29 01:24:13","fileurl":""},{"id":68060,"heading":"pathetic mole self-play","article":"daveman=fresca=omar=jewboy=debate roach etc. - \r\nwhat a self-playing wanker.\r\n\r\nwhat a waste of illegally duverted taxpayers' money.\r\n\r\nwhat a crime.\r\n\r\nsharon's ongoing tragic farce of the targeted assassinations carefully and deliberately avoids targeting the much-needede enemy sheikh yassin so as to perpetuate the violence and the sabotage of peace and of secular leftwing palestinians. \r\n\r\nmoreover it's a fascist policy in that it tramps the will of a vast majority of israelis (67% according to the latest poll) underfoot. \r\n\r\nand the self-multiplied troll instead of addressing these very real issues - which he can't - keeps on with his little obvious pathetic obfuscation games\r\n\r\njust a little reminder for the authentic reader.\r\n\r\nand now yassin announces a 3-month ceasefire - mmmm...an accord with the other palestinian factions - very well,let's see how sharon sabotages this one.\r\n\r\ncertainly now for the first time in 30 years yassin seems not to be playing sharon's game of peace sabotage.\r\n\r\nlet's wait and see.\r\n\r\nif the past is any indicator...\r\n\r\npeace be welcome though if this is real.\r\n\r\n","author":"pathetic mole self-play","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 11:11:47","modified":"2003-06-29 11:11:47","fileurl":""},{"id":68101,"heading":"Help me!!!","article":"I just saw "debate coach" watching me from outside my window! It's a conspiracy, I tell you!","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 12:27:57","modified":"2003-06-29 12:27:57","fileurl":""},{"id":68115,"heading":"screwboy take yer meds...","article":"but don't worry:yer friends in the white coats are comin'.\r\n\r\nI wouldn't be surprised now that if yassin relly has stepped out of the sharon-assigned line of peace sabotage,that now since he's become an enemy of the sharon policy,that sharon might finally decide to kill him now - because he's refusing to toe the line.","author":"screwboy take yer meds...","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 12:37:24","modified":"2003-06-29 12:37:24","fileurl":""},{"id":68128,"heading":"pathetic mole self-play","article":"You cockney fuck!! this isnt a bricklaying competition in Bricklane U shit stabber and get ur ass a fucking spell check u little shit. "illegally duverted funds", from who? ur mum?","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 13:05:43","modified":"2003-06-29 13:05:43","fileurl":""},{"id":68136,"heading":"send me ur resume","article":"I think we need a janitor at our office jewbag. We have computers in our office so u can get on indymedia when u get ur lunch break. Other than that there are many sites on line. You can post ur resume and\/or apply at\r\n\r\nwww.monster.com\r\nwww.AIPAC.com\r\nwww.israelemb.org\r\nwww.zionistjanitors.net\r\n\r\nI think everyman regardless of race, religion or sexual preference :D should have a job. How can u have self respect if U dont have a job right jewfag..... ? maybe youll know what its like to have a job when u actually get one... sorry didnt mean to hurt ur feelings. How are u gonna support fresca on dole? hes not going to be very "FLATTERED" :D\r\n\r\nSo what is ur take on the Ramallah massacre Jewbag? your not taking a break from Indymedia to give the illusion that ur looking for a job are you? \r\n\r\nYour not "by way of deception thou shalt make war" CAN U BELIEVE IT That is the motto of Israel's top agency. I dont know if they have website fagjew but im sure u would fit right into it too. Maybe that is why u are always lieing and trying to decieve people. \r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 13:41:54","modified":"2003-06-29 13:41:54","fileurl":""},{"id":68143,"heading":"we'll see","article":""and now yassin announces a 3-month ceasefire - mmmm...an accord with the other palestinian factions - very well,let's see how sharon sabotages this one. \r\n\r\ncertainly now for the first time in 30 years yassin seems not to be playing sharon's game of peace sabotage. \r\n\r\nlet's wait and see. \r\n\r\nif the past is any indicator... \r\n\r\npeace be welcome though if this is real. \r\n"\r\n\r\nI hope it works out. I doubt somehow that the swarthy breeders of hamas can go too long without indulging in their national sport of hatecrime.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 14:48:29","modified":"2003-06-29 14:48:29","fileurl":""},{"id":68148,"heading":"My eyes are bleeding","article":"I can't believe I just sat and read this entire page. And I honestly feel more stupid for having done so. When the argument deteriorates into gay and racial jokes, isn't it time to hang your hat?\r\nI'm going to try to make a couple comments, hopefully not too incoherently, since my brain is still spinning from all the bullshit I just endured.\r\n\r\nFirst, so you know where I come from, I am non religious. I also have no real political affiliations, and refuse to be labelled as liberal or conservative. I feel there is a much wider range of political shools of thought than simply those two.\r\n\r\nMy points:\r\nSharon and Arafat have both committed what I would consider war crimes in the past or present, making neither one fit to run a country imho. Hamas, obviously, is a terrorist faction and deserves to be treated as such.\r\nNeither side seems to be truly interested in peace. Case in point, during the recent peace talks, Israel sent helicopters on a assassination run, killing several innocent bystanders. Good negotiation tactic, eh?\r\nSomeone commented that the article above is BS because Sharon instigates a policy of tolerance. Please cite me even one example of this to support this argument. \r\nAnd, please, for the love of whichever god you worship, stop calling everybody and their brother anti-semitic. It is possible that someone can disagree with Israel without hating them. I know it's hard to believe. But we really don't all hate you just because we disagree with your actions sometimes. Get over it, the holocaust was 60 years ago.\r\nSometimes it makes me wonder if that's not just the fallback argument, the safety net if you will. Rather than debate the person you hide behind the racism shield.\r\nI do not hate jews. I do not hate muslims. But I think you're both being stupid because neither side is willing to back down on what it wants. In the same way I think Pakistan and India are stupid for doing the exact same think over Kashmir. It's pointless.\r\n\r\nOk, my flamesuit is on. Fire away. Do note, I will not respond to personal attacks, so don't waste your time typing them.","author":"The Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 15:06:48","modified":"2003-06-29 15:06:48","fileurl":""},{"id":68149,"heading":"The posting","article":"of June 28, 2003 08:27 AM is phony - not mine. O-mar's former apologist "coach" authored it. \r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 15:07:48","modified":"2003-06-29 15:07:48","fileurl":""},{"id":68150,"heading":"The posting","article":"of June 28, 2003 08:27 AM is phony - not mine. O-mar's former apologist "coach" authored it. \r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 15:08:18","modified":"2003-06-29 15:08:18","fileurl":""},{"id":68156,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""The posting of June 28, 2003 08:27 AM is phony - not mine. O-mar's former apologist "coach" authored it."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." \r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 15:17:22","modified":"2003-06-29 15:17:22","fileurl":""},{"id":68158,"heading":"Help me!!!","article":"I just saw "debate coach" watching me from across the street with binoculars! It's a conspiracy, I tell you!\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 15:23:07","modified":"2003-06-29 15:23:07","fileurl":""},{"id":68161,"heading":"sometimes","article":""It is possible that someone can disagree with Israel without hating them. I know it's hard to believe. But we really don't all hate you just because we disagree with your actions sometimes."\r\n\r\nYou're absolutely correct. Unfortunately, this is usually not the case around here. Otherwise we'd see alot more concern for ANY other groups besides ONLY the palestinians.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 15:42:31","modified":"2003-06-29 15:42:31","fileurl":""},{"id":68163,"heading":"Reply to Rev:","article":">>"Sharon and Arafat have both committed what I would consider war crimes in the past or present, making neither one fit to run a country imho. "\r\n\r\nWhile I respect your opinion concerning Sharon, we all must bear in mind he had already been punished in Israel in 1983 - the High Court of Justice forced him to step down from the office of minister of defense. He was guilty only of negligence insofar as not barring the Christian "Falanghas" militia from entering Sabra and Shatilla that fateful day when they (the "Flanges") set out to massacre "Palestinians" on their own initiative as a form of settling some score with the latter. But the point is that Sharon did NOT have pre- knowledge of their intention, so he wasn't guilty of war crimes in this case. Had he been, the High Court would have been much rougher on him. \r\n\r\n>>"Neither side seems to be truly interested in peace. Case in point, during the recent peace talks, Israel sent helicopters on a assassination run, killing several innocent bystanders. Good negotiation tactic, eh? "\r\n\r\nWrong Rev. Had Israel not been interested, it wouldn't sign the Oslo Accords to begin with. There are many other ways to prove you wrong on this count. \r\n\r\nSecondly, you have a blurred vision of the situation, due to anti-Israel slanted covering of the news which is almost always superficial too. What you dub "assassination" is in effect killing either "ticking bomb" terrorists, terrorists in action or their commanders. This is necessary to fight terror. As to bystanders getting killed, please read my postings from Tuesday June 17, 2003 07:03 AM, this hopefully will enlighten you. But remember I for one am not impressed by your sarcasm.\r\n\r\n\r\n>>"Someone commented that the article above is BS because Sharon instigates a policy of tolerance. Please cite me even one example of this to support this argument. "\r\n\r\nI don't know which person you refer to and not sure what you mean by a policy of tolerance.\r\n\r\n\r\n>>"And, please, for the love of whichever god you worship, stop calling everybody and their brother anti-semitic. It is possible that someone can disagree with Israel without hating them. I know it's hard to believe. But we really don't all hate you just because we disagree with your actions sometimes. Get over it, the holocaust was 60 years ago."\r\n\r\nI do make a distinction between one being anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic. You can also HATE Israel without being an anti-Semite. I suggest you go over all my postings so far - but you should realize when someone refers to Israelis as "Zionazis" or uses the "nose" epithet in a way that transcends mere humor, then he IS being anti-Semitic, like it or not.\r\n\r\nAs to the Holocaust, 6 million Jews were murdered for no other reason than being Jewish. It wasn't because they were Polish or German, for example. Not so the Christians murdered during WWII - they were killed in action as British, German, etc. soldiers, not as Christians. It would be best if you do your homework and study Jewish history and the period of the Holocaust in particular before you make such a callous statement. No, there's no way to "get over it". It's not simple as you're making it out to be here. If you were Jewish you would have though otherwise. You haven't walked yet a mile in my shoes, so you definitely have no right to exhort this. So, whenever I see a person acting anti-Semitically, I will call a spade a spade. Period.\r\n\r\n\r\n>>"Sometimes it makes me wonder if that's not just the fallback argument, the safety net if you will. Rather than debate the person you hide behind the racism shield. " \r\n\r\nWrong. see above.\r\n\r\n\r\n>>"I do not hate jews. I do not hate muslims. But I think you're both being stupid because neither side is willing to back down on what it wants. "\r\n\r\nYou're entitled to your opinion, yet we Jews, fyi, have been backing down most of the time and have been or been willing to give up all the time. Do you remember the prospective Camp David agreement of 2000? Israel was close to giving them 97% of Judea, Samaria & Gaza. You call that "neider side is willing to back down on what it wants"? Not attacking you, it's just you're abysmally misinformed. Please read also my posting "NOW THAT WE'RE TALKING FOR REAL..." of Monday June 16, 2003 06:18 AM to grasp the full scope of the territory we Jews have already compromised over. \r\n\r\nThank you.\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:07:36","modified":"2003-06-29 16:07:36","fileurl":""},{"id":68168,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""How do I know U didnt type that jewboy? It was probably you. "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:23:25","modified":"2003-06-29 16:23:25","fileurl":""},{"id":68169,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""The posting of June 28, 2003 08:27 AM is phony - not mine. O-mar's former apologist "coach" authored it. \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation. \r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." "\r\n\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation. \r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" \r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:27:00","modified":"2003-06-29 16:27:00","fileurl":""},{"id":68170,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""actions speak louder than words & so u claim "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:30:29","modified":"2003-06-29 16:30:29","fileurl":""},{"id":68172,"heading":"^","article":"That was me impersonating "debate coach." ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:40:34","modified":"2003-06-29 16:40:34","fileurl":""},{"id":68175,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""That was me impersonating "debate coach." \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:48:47","modified":"2003-06-29 16:48:47","fileurl":""},{"id":68178,"heading":"The following quote is a logical fallacy indeed:","article":"" ^\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Saturday June 28, 2003 12:40 PM\r\n\r\nThat was me impersonating "debate coach." "\r\n\r\nTry reading "Logic for ultra-Liberal Bleeding Heart Fascist Idiots" and then shove it up your ass.\r\n\r\nGodspeed.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:57:14","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:25","fileurl":""},{"id":68179,"heading":"^","article":"That was me impersonating "debate coach." \r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:57:50","modified":"2003-06-29 16:57:50","fileurl":""},{"id":68181,"heading":"Poor, little "Jewboy."","article":""...shove it up your ass."\r\n\r\nThat's about the level of (un)intelligent discourse I've come to expect from conservatives. ","author":"Critical Thinker","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 16:59:54","modified":"2003-06-29 16:59:54","fileurl":""},{"id":68186,"heading":""Critical Thinker"","article":"I ain't conservative and you haven't proved it anyway.\r\n\r\nYou also haven't proved you aren't in fact the "debate coach" wiesel masquerading as "Critical Thinker".","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:05:08","modified":"2003-06-29 17:05:08","fileurl":""},{"id":68191,"heading":"To the "coach" wiesel:","article":"Your following quote indicates you're confused - you've made your first tactical mistake, hopefully the first of many:\r\n"^\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Saturday June 28, 2003 12:57 PM\r\n\r\nThat was me impersonating "debate coach." "\r\n\r\nNot only do you lack morals and a scintilla of fairness in public debate, you're a confused idiot too.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:11:47","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68192,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""Not only do you lack morals and a scintilla of fairness in public debate, you're a confused idiot too."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." ","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:19:52","modified":"2003-06-29 17:19:52","fileurl":""},{"id":68194,"heading":"Whoops!","article":""You also haven't proved you aren't in fact the "debate coach" wiesel masquerading as "Critical Thinker"."\r\n\r\nA third grader just informed me that one can't prove a negative. I just can't help being stupid; I'm a conservative.\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:21:40","modified":"2003-06-29 17:21:40","fileurl":""},{"id":68195,"heading":"P.S. to the "coach" wiesel:","article":"** You see, I NEVER post in the form of:\r\n\r\n"Logical Fallacy\r\n\r\nby debate coach\r\n\r\n" xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation. "\r\n\r\nOR:\r\n\r\n"Logical Fallacy\r\n\r\nby debate coach\r\n\r\n"xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" "\r\n\r\n*** I suggest you bow out now for good and spare yourself additional embarrassment.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:22:11","modified":"2003-06-29 17:22:11","fileurl":""},{"id":68200,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""Logical Fallacy\r\nby debate coach \u2022 Saturday June 28, 2003 01:19 PM\r\n\r\n"Not only do you lack morals and a scintilla of fairness in public debate, you're a confused idiot too." \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations \r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" .\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:26:16","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68202,"heading":""Jewboy"","article":"Whoops!\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Saturday June 28, 2003 01:21 PM\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n"You also haven't proved you aren't in fact the "debate coach" wiesel masquerading as "Critical Thinker"." \r\n\r\nA third grader just informed me that one can't prove a negative. I just can't help being stupid; I'm a conservative. \r\n\r\nYou are stupid beyond words.","author":"Finkelstein","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:28:15","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68203,"heading":""Jewboy"","article":"Feel free to keep embarrassing yourself with your idiocy. You are quite amusing.","author":"Milton","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:34:05","modified":"2003-06-29 17:34:05","fileurl":""},{"id":68207,"heading":"P.P.S to the wiesel:","article":"*** I also never post silly messages like this one:\r\n\r\n"Whoops!\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Saturday June 28, 2003 01:21 PM\r\n\r\n"You also haven't proved you aren't in fact the "debate coach" wiesel masquerading as "Critical Thinker"." \r\n\r\n"A third grader just informed me that one can't prove a negative. I just can't help being stupid; I'm a conservative. "\r\n\r\nTHESE KIND OF MESSAGES ARE VERY EASY TO IDENTIFY AS BEING PHONY. \r\nMOREOVER, I PERSONALLY THINK YOU'RE EVEN MORE DISTURBED THAN O-MAR. \r\n\r\nBESIDES, YOU'VE YET TO PROVE I'M CONSERVATIVE. BRING IT ON ALREADY, OUT WITH IT, WIESEL!\r\n\r\n*** FINALLY, SUIT YOURSELF - GIVE ME PROOF YOU AND THAT "THINKER" ARE SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:40:20","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68208,"heading":"Whoops!","article":""*** FINALLY, SUIT YOURSELF - GIVE ME PROOF YOU AND THAT "THINKER" ARE SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS."\r\n\r\nA third grader just informed me that the burden of proof is on me. Will somebody please help me take my head out of my ass?\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:44:50","modified":"2003-06-29 17:44:50","fileurl":""},{"id":68209,"heading":"Dear Milton,","article":"If you read all the postings carefully you'll notice someone is constantly hijacking my handle.\r\n\r\nMyself, I have nothing to do with this stupid game. How can I prevent that "debate coach" wiesel from impersonating me? \r\n\r\nI hope you understand the problem now.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:45:13","modified":"2003-06-29 17:45:13","fileurl":""},{"id":68210,"heading":"One more thing, Milton","article":"Some very disturbed person a.k.a the "debate coach" wiesel is hell bent on confusing the reader, as you can see. This buffoon might end up making all the serious debaters abandon this discussion, or at least make no one taking me seriously anymore. \r\n\r\nHe's doing self-aggrandizement at my expense.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 17:52:30","modified":"2003-06-29 17:52:30","fileurl":""},{"id":68212,"heading":"The following message was","article":"THE "COACH" WIESEL IMPERSONATING MYSELF:\r\n\r\n"Whoops!\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Saturday June 28, 2003 01:44 PM\r\n\r\n"*** FINALLY, SUIT YOURSELF - GIVE ME PROOF YOU AND THAT "THINKER" ARE SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS." \r\n\r\nA third grader just informed me that the burden of proof is on me. Will somebody please help me take my head out of my ass? "\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:02:59","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68218,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""The following message was THE "COACH" WIESEL IMPERSONATING MYSELF:"\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies." \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:26:25","modified":"2003-06-29 18:26:25","fileurl":""},{"id":68224,"heading":"^","article":"That's a lie.\r\nTry reading "Logic for ultra-Liberal Bleeding Heart Fascist Idiots" and then shove it up your ass. Good luck.\r\n\r\nHey "Critical Thinker" wiesel or whoever, bring on your standard issue unfounded drivel response.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:38:09","modified":"2003-06-29 18:38:09","fileurl":""},{"id":68225,"heading":"Poor, little "Jewboy."","article":""...shove it up your ass." \r\n\r\nThat's about the level of (un)intelligent discourse I've come to expect from conservatives. \r\n\r\n","author":"Critical Thinker","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:39:59","modified":"2003-06-29 18:39:59","fileurl":""},{"id":68226,"heading":"^","article":"I was pretty sure you'd repeat your unfounded standard issue drivel and sure enough you did.\r\n\r\nSo far, wiesel, not only have you been behaving like a simple robotic automat, you also STILL haven't proven I'm conservative! That's evidently too much for a wiesel like yourself to handle.\r\n\r\nYou seem to think there's only 2 possible camps: conservative and non-conservative. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:48:23","modified":"2003-06-29 18:48:23","fileurl":""},{"id":68227,"heading":""Jewboy"","article":"That's rich, coming from an idiot who thinks that one can prove a negative. Please take your head out of your ass.","author":"Not a wiesel","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 18:51:48","modified":"2003-06-29 18:51:48","fileurl":""},{"id":68278,"heading":"so its settled then...","article":"wow... not a single remark :D feels so good just to shut u fuck ups... cant fool us... jobless fender benders","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-29 22:20:24","modified":"2003-06-29 22:20:24","fileurl":""},{"id":68322,"heading":"to everybody out there...","article":"Please help Jewboy get a job. Hes a special kid, aint U jewbag? This kids wasting the best years of his life in front of a computer when he could be out there, working, using his brain for something useful, like I dont know, cleaning floors. Didnt ur mum teach u its a bad thing to lie\r\n\r\n"While I respect your opinion concerning Sharon, we all must bear in mind he had already been punished in Israel in 1983 - the High Court of Justice forced him to step down from the office of minister of defense. He was guilty only of negligence"\r\n\r\nFor being actively involved in mass murder I can see ur point about him being punished. WoW the man must have really suffered. \r\n\r\nFor the record In 1982, Israeli Army was an occupying force in Beirut (Lebanon); according to the international laws they had the responsibility of protection of all civilians under their control. At that time the Israeli Army was under total control of Israeli Defence Ministry, and Ariel Sharon was the Defence Minister. He visited Beirut and pledged total support for the Israeli allied Lebanese Christian Militia. Ariel Sharon himself gave the green light to Lebanese Christian Militia to enter the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila in west Beirut, which consequently resulted in the massacre, torture and rape of hundreds of unarmed civilians, mainly women and children. \r\nThe Israeli Army was not only monitoring the camps and did nothing to stop the massacre, but as a matter of fact, they paved the path for Militias to enter the camps. They had their direct and clear orders from the Israeli Defence Ministry not to interfere and give free hands and assistance to the Lebanese Christian Militia. \r\n\r\n"But the point is that Sharon did NOT have pre- knowledge of their intention, so he wasn't guilty of war crimes in this case"\r\n\r\nYou lieing Son of a zionist bitch. Anybody who is familiar with the region knows that there was deep seated hatred and rivalry between the muslims and the christians of lebanon and there were many clues that would lead any ordinary person to believe that a mssacre would take place if the christians were given a free hand. It was Sharon who gave the order for the Lebanese militias to enter the camps\r\n\r\n"Secondly, you have a blurred vision of the situation, due to anti-Israel slanted covering of the news which is almost always superficial too. What you dub "assassination" is in effect killing either "ticking bomb" terrorists, terrorists in action or their commanders. "\r\n\r\nYour crazy Rev. everybody who doesnt agree with the mass murder of innocent civilians by an occupying force has a blurred vision of reality. Even the Belgian court that is trying the case of Ariel Sharon as a mass murderer must be filled with mad people cuz he already has been removed as ISRAELI DEFENCE MINISTER DAMMIT. \r\n\r\n"I do make a distinction between one being anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic. You can also HATE Israel without being an anti-Semite. I suggest you go over all my postings so far - but you should realize when someone refers to Israelis as "Zionazis" or uses the "nose" epithet in a way that transcends mere humor, then he IS being anti-Semitic, like it or not. "\r\n\r\n*yawn* whatever. never write a book man. \r\n\r\n"As to the Holocaust, 6 million Jews were murdered for no other reason than being Jewish." \r\n\r\nI disagree with this figure. Im sure many were killed but I dont agree with the figure of 6 million. It is unsubstantiated.\r\n\r\n"You haven't walked yet a mile in my shoes, so you definitely have no right to exhort this."\r\n\r\neven u havent walked a mile in your own shoes. You always on this damn thing\r\n\r\n"You're entitled to your opinion, yet we Jews, fyi, have been backing down most of the time "\r\n\r\nOH PLEASE. Please give me examples of where u have been backing down and ill show you ten where your talking out of ur ass. I love this guys sweeping statements. I think he realises most people arent bothered to give him the time of day and there fore checkout all of his lies thats why this fag thinks hes some sort of authoiry\r\n\r\nRead this motherfucker and decide if whats being offered is a joke or statehood U fucking zionist LIAR\r\n\r\nEssentials of the Camp David II Proposals by Israel \r\n\r\n1. Palestinian Statehood and Conditions\r\nA Palestinian state would be established in most of the West Bank and all of the Gaza strip, with these conditions: \r\n\r\nThe state would not have an army with heavy weapons, \r\nThe state would not make alliances with other countries without Israeli approval and would not allow introduction of foreign forces west of the River Jordan. \r\nIsrael would be allowed deploy troops in the Jordan Valley if Israel were to be threatened by invasion from the east. \r\nIsraeli aircraft could overfly Palestinian airspace. \r\nIsraeli would install early warning stations in the mountains overlooking the Jordan valley and other areas. \r\nPalestinians would control border crossings with Jordan and Egypt along with Israeli security observation. \r\nThe Israelis would retain management over water sources in the West Bank while approving a limited quota to the Palestinians. \r\nIsrael would lease areas in the Jordan Valley or maintain temporary sovereignty over them for up to 25 years. \r\n2. Refugees\r\nThe Palestine refugee problem would be solved in the following way:\r\n\r\nIsrael would not accept any legal or civilian responsibility for their displacement. \r\nIsrael would allow the return of around 100,000 refugees under \u201chumanitarian\u201d grounds in the form of family reunions and considers such a step as compliance with UN Resolution 194. \r\nAccording to one source, the Palestinian State would be limited in the number of refugees it could absorb to half a million refugees according to a fixed timetable. This is not confirmed by other sources and is problematic, since a much larger number of refugees, well over a million, already live in camps in Gaza and the West Bank. \r\nAn international fund would compensate refugees. Israel, the U.S. and Europe are to contribute. According to one source, this fund would also provide compensation to Jews who were forced to leave their possessions in Arab countries when they fled to Israel. \r\n3. Jerusalem\r\n\r\nPalestine would obtain sovereignty over suburbs in the north and the south of Jerusalem that would be annexed to the West Bank, including Abu Dees, Alezariye and eastern Sawahre. \r\n\r\nWithin East Jerusalem, in (Beit Hanina-Shuafat), there would be a civilian administration affiliated with the Palestinian Authority with the possibility of linking it to West Jerusalem through a municipality covering both sectors. The Palestinians would run a branch municipality within the framework of the Israeli higher municipal council while depriving them from planning and construction jurisdictions. \r\n\r\nThe proposals allowed for Palestinian, Arab, Islamic and Christian administration of holy sites in the old city of Jerusalem. The Palestinians would be allowed to hoist the Palestinian flag over the Islamic and Christian shrines along with a safe passage linking northern Jerusalem, which would be annexed to the West Bank, to those areas so that Palestinians and Muslims would not pass through lands under Israeli sovereignty. \r\n\r\n4. Land Area of Palestine\r\nThe initial area of the Palestinian state would comprise about 73% of the land area of the West Bank and all of Gaza. The West Bank would be divided by the road from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea and a corridor on either side of it. This would form two relatively large Palestinian areas and one small enclave surrounding Jericho. The three areas would be joined by a free passage without checkpoints, but the safe passage could be closed by Israel in case of emergency. According to Palestinian sources, there would be another division between the area north of the Ariel and Shilo settlements along the trans-Shomron highway built by Israel. \r\n\r\nIn later stages (10-25 years) Israel would cede additional areas, particularly in the mountains overlooking the Jordan valley, to bring the total area to slightly under 90% of the area of the West Bank (94% excluding greater Jerusalem). \r\n\r\nThe major settlement blocks adjacent to Jerusalem and in the Jerusalem corridor would be annexed to Israel: Efrat, Gush Etzion, Ma'ale Edumim. The town of Ariel and the corridor along the trans-Samaria highway would be annexed to Israel. The Jewish settlement town of Qiriat Arba would remain under Israeli administration in the heart of Palestinian territory, with a single road through Palestinian territory reaching it from the south. Isolated Jewish settlements including the settlement in Hebron, would come under Palestinian jurisdiction and would probably be abandoned. \r\n\r\nSOME CONCESSIONS U RETARDED MOTHERFUCKER\r\n\r\n"wE JEWS"\r\n\r\nspeak for ur self u little shit. I know many jewish people who would spit in your face for the liar and hypocrite u are. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 01:55:30","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68340,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""For being actively involved in mass murder... ". "The Israeli Army was not only monitoring the camps and did nothing to stop the massacre". "They had their direct and clear orders from the Israeli Defence Ministry not to interfere and give free hands and assistance to the Lebanese Christian Militia. " . \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" ","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 03:16:49","modified":"2003-06-30 03:16:49","fileurl":""},{"id":68341,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""You lieing Son of a zionist bitch.". "It was Sharon who gave the order for the Lebanese militias to enter the camps." . "everybody who doesnt agree with the mass murder of innocent civilians by an occupying force has a blurred vision of reality. Even the Belgian court that is trying the case of Ariel Sharon as a mass murderer must be filled with mad people cuz he already has been removed as ISRAELI DEFENCE MINISTER DAMMIT. ".\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" ","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 03:19:22","modified":"2003-06-30 03:19:22","fileurl":""},{"id":68343,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""It is unsubstantiated. " "even u havent walked a mile in your own shoes. You always on this damn thing." . " little shit." . "I know many jewish people who would spit in your face for the liar and hypocrite u are. " .\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" ","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 03:21:53","modified":"2003-06-30 03:21:53","fileurl":""},{"id":68345,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""...coming from an idiot who thinks that one can prove a negative. "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 03:25:41","modified":"2003-06-30 03:25:41","fileurl":""},{"id":68347,"heading":"Correct.","article":"I agree with "debate coach" on this. \r\nNot only that I'm not an idiot and he lacks poof I'm one, this "Not a wiesel" simpleton also purports to know I think anyone can prove a negative. I advise him to shove his head back up his ass and leave it there for good.\r\n\r\nAs to proving a negative. Perhaps it cannot be done in pure logical terms, but fortunately humans aren't dummies like robots or computers. Let's take one example.\r\n\r\nIn America every person is considered innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution tries proving him guilty during trial. \r\nLet's suppose it was backwards - every individual is considered guilty at the outset and he\/she tries proving innocence during trial. \r\nAnd suppose also the arraigned plans on trying to get away with his\/her crime by fooling everyone into believing he\/she was the bystander in the incident instead of the real one. When the trial begins, one can tease the arraigned saying: "prove you aren't the accused masquerading as the bystander." \r\nThis sentence is understandable and makes sense! \r\n\r\nWhat did I tell the "coach"\/"Critical Thinker" wiesel back then? Here's the entire posting:\r\n\r\n"Critical Thinker"\r\nby "Jewboy" \u2022 Saturday June 28, 2003 01:05 PM\r\n\r\nI ain't conservative and you haven't proved it anyway. \r\n\r\nYou also haven't proved you aren't in fact the "debate coach" wiesel masquerading as "Critical Thinker".\r\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\nNow you can see I DID make sense, to the wiesel's chagrin.\r\n\r\n I suggest "coach" and his entourage - if he has one - stop this narrow minded obsession with logics and let the rest of us have a normal conversation. Even O-mar knows better than resorting to such narrow minded games. \r\nI don't know if "coach" is a person masquerading as a computer or the other way around, yet it's painfully clear all it\/he can do is exercise the same tired posting mold over and over. It's really monotonic and terribly boring, let alone petty. \r\n\r\nThe diligent readers have probably noticed that the person posting under the "Critical Thinker" handle is the same one who initially posted under "anti-moron" - using the same key words. Gotcha wiesel!","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 04:13:51","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68348,"heading":"Enough","article":"Omar's post is simply too long and nonsensical to even finish so I stopped at this MINUMENTAL outright lie....\r\n\r\n\r\n"It was Sharon who gave the order for the Lebanese militias to enter the camps "\r\n\r\n\r\nThat's just plain crazy talk.\r\n\r\nOmar knows it's a lie, but being the good muslim that he claims to be, he feels it's his duty to try and float any and all anti-jew drivel.\r\n\r\nSo , what's your thoughts on Hama and it's bearing on the "peaceful" nature of Islam?","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 04:14:14","modified":"2003-06-30 04:14:14","fileurl":""},{"id":68380,"heading":"To our O-mar dickhead:","article":"You still haven't proven I'm gay. What you consider unequivocal evidence indicates you're a hefty imbecile if you really meant to prove my "sin" with it. At the risk of repeating myself, it's just as safe to assume your favorite jerking off environment is having your dick submerged in sewage. \r\n\r\n>>"For being actively involved in mass murder I can see ur point about him being punished. "\r\n\r\nO-mar couldn't care less about facts and truth when they stand in the way of his anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic hate agenda, what else is new? I may add he's also cognitively dissonanced regarding many facts about Sharon.\r\n\r\n>>"At that time the Israeli Army was under total control of Israeli Defence Ministry..."\r\n\r\nOur favorite knucklehead isn't aware that the Israeli military has always been answering to the Defense Ministry. \r\n\r\n>>"The Israeli Army was not only monitoring the camps and did nothing to stop the massacre."\r\n\r\nThe Israeli Northern Command General, Amir Drori, DID stop the massacre once he got word the Falanghas had been shooting many people and "clearing" houses. Had the Israeli forces been monitoring the 2 camps, General Drori would have ordered the massacre stopped in its tracks, early on. O-mar is lying. What else could have I expected?\r\n\r\n>>"They had their direct and clear orders from the Israeli Defence Ministry not to interfere and give free hands and assistance to the Lebanese Christian Militia. "\r\n\r\nTricky-dick O-mar is trying to pull a manipulation here. The Ministry of Defense allowed the military to supply the Falanghas only with illumination shells (since the operation started at night) and one tractor sans the operator - in order to enable them to destroy bunkers and tunnels there. Prior to the operation the Falanghists demanded things like supporting tanks, artillery and aerial assistance but were turned down by the Ministry and military.\r\n\r\n>>"You lieing Son of a zionist bitch. Anybody who is familiar with the region knows that there was deep seated hatred and rivalry between the muslims and the christians of lebanon and there were many clues that would lead any ordinary person to believe that a mssacre would take place if the christians were given a free hand. It was Sharon who gave the order for the Lebanese militias to enter the camps." \r\n\r\nYou're a fucking "Palestinian"-wannable lying male whore. You're the one lying through your bloody teeth. What you've wrote doesn't prove Sharon had pre-knowledge of any intention on the part of the Christian forces to commit a massacre, nor did you prove I was lying or wrong. You're such a pathetic imbecile given the fact you're sure what you wrote proves Sharon knew of their intention to massacre. \r\n\r\n>>"Your crazy Rev. everybody who doesnt agree with the mass murder of innocent civilians by an occupying force has a blurred vision of reality."\r\n\r\nPathetic bullshit rantings of a cynical knucklehead.\r\n\r\n>>"Even the Belgian court that is trying the case of Ariel Sharon as a mass murderer must be filled with mad people cuz he already has been removed as ISRAELI DEFENCE MINISTER DAMMIT. "\r\n\r\nSame as above. The stupidity your manipulations give away is staggering, cockhead. The Belgian court isn't currently trying him. You probably were on crack to have written a piece which doesn't even register as an Alisa in Wonderland fantasy. \r\n\r\n>>["Holocaust, 6 million Jews were murdered..."] "I disagree with this figure. Im sure many were killed but I dont agree with the figure of 6 million. It is unsubstantiated. "\r\n\r\nOK dickhead. let's say it's approximately 6 million but is usually rounded to 6 million. At least you quit while you were ahead of yourself and didn't try to say something like "only 800,000 or 1.2 million". Keep up with your silence on this point, tricky-dick. We have enough Holocaust denying pros as it is, we don't need to read the result of your "studies", you 7-11 "luminary".\r\n\r\n>>"even u havent walked a mile in your own shoes. You always on this damn thing."\r\n\r\nA chucklehead like O-mar can't help but jabber. I didn't except another outcome.\r\n\r\n>>" Please give me examples of where u have been backing down and ill show you ten where your talking out of ur ass. I love this guys sweeping statements. I think he realises most people arent bothered to give him the time of day and there fore checkout all of his lies thats why this fag thinks hes some sort of authoiry."\r\n\r\nSame as above.\r\n\r\nAs for the homunculus O-mar's "Essentials of the Camp David II Proposals by Israel" presentation: nice try, dickhead.\r\nI repeat, Israel was close to giving them 97% of Judea, Samaria & Gaza, to O-mar's chagrin. Ehud Barak proposed this to your faggot fat (spiritual) leader Arafa, as I once mentioned in another posting, but he turned it down, left Camp David and initiated a murder campaign against Israel (Sharon's visit on the Temple Mount was only the excuse the "Palestinians" used for initiating the hostilities). You, poor fucking "Palestinian" wannabee hate mongering O-mar may fool the naive into thinking Israel hardly offered them jack, yet the facts remain. \r\n\r\n>>"["wE JEWS"] speak for ur self u little shit. I know many jewish people who would spit in your face for the liar and hypocrite u are. "\r\n\r\nShove your Arab-wannable cockhead up your scabrous shitty butt and leave it there for good. I'll debate as I want, you poor excuse for a human-like gutter. If you ever come near me, I'll make you wonder why you ever started supporting the "Palestinian" cause. \r\n\r\nYou haven't refuted my theory you're a Kashmiri Hindu apostate, which may explain why you're so obsessed with cows and heifers on this discussion. Could it be you haven't because it's too painful? You're still a LOSER, no matter how hard you try shaking it off. \r\n\r\nKeep erupting, O grand young Arab riff-raff caricature. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 06:49:33","modified":"2003-06-30 06:49:33","fileurl":""},{"id":68405,"heading":">> let's say it's approximately 6 million<<","article":">> let's say it's approximately 6 million<<\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated allegation.\r\n\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 10:57:24","modified":"2003-06-30 10:57:24","fileurl":""},{"id":68410,"heading":"You're the liar","article":"and you fool no one by trying to deviate from your usual posting mold.\r\n\r\nYou're a sleazy anti-Semite and Holocaust deniar until you prove otherwise by renouncing this lie of yours. \r\n\r\nTry reading "History of the Jews for anti-Semitic Ultra-Liberal Assholes".","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 11:37:13","modified":"2003-06-30 11:37:13","fileurl":""},{"id":68411,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":"">> let's say it's approximately 6 million<<\r\nby debate coach \u2022 Sunday June 29, 2003 06:57 AM\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated allegation. "\r\n\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" \r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 11:40:02","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:27","fileurl":""},{"id":68413,"heading":"jewboy the dog(matic)","article":">>You're a sleazy anti-Semite and Holocaust deniar <<\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated allegation.\r\n\r\nTry Logic for Dummies.","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 11:45:33","modified":"2003-06-30 11:45:33","fileurl":""},{"id":68414,"heading":"If you really mean that...dickhead,","article":"then prove me my allegation is unsubstantiated, without pulling any stunts. \r\n\r\nI'm willing to give even a wiesel a chance to explain.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 11:50:06","modified":"2003-06-30 11:50:06","fileurl":""},{"id":68416,"heading":"debate coach the cow(ard)","article":"">>You're a sleazy anti-Semite and Holocaust deniar << \r\nUnsubstantiated allegation. "\r\n\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\n\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 11:57:51","modified":"2003-06-30 11:57:51","fileurl":""},{"id":68417,"heading":"burden of proof on screwboy","article":"- it's screwboy who made the unsubstantiated allegation that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust.\r\n\r\n-therefore it's screwboy who must substantiate his unsubstantiated allegation.","author":"burden of proof on screwboy","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:00:11","modified":"2003-06-30 12:00:11","fileurl":""},{"id":68419,"heading":"Nope.","article":"No comment to you. Go back to LaRouche and kiss his ass.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:04:13","modified":"2003-06-30 12:04:13","fileurl":""},{"id":68420,"heading":"Jewbag and Fresca sitting on a tree..","article":"K.I.S.S.I.N.G. Jewfag u have to be the biggest cocksucker on the planet and Fresca or whatever the fuck your name is Fresfag I will answer ur lies soon enough. rght now i have a J.O.B to take care off.... \r\n\r\nyou ignoramus magnamous chucklehead knucklehead sandwhich with a pepsi on the side stick ur mitzivah in the sewage of ur synagogue's backside \r\n\r\n....hehehe so thats how little bitches curse.\r\n\r\nWell thats just plain ridiculous. Whats Ridiculous is the fact that Frsfag you havent stepped out the closet yet... \r\n\r\nLATERRRRR....\r\n\r\n","author":"OMAR","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:06:55","modified":"2003-06-30 12:06:55","fileurl":""},{"id":68421,"heading":"Coward, coward.","article":"You think you're fooling anyone, dickhead?\r\nYou're not going to your 7-11 shift now. You'll be on Indy for the next few hours at least. \r\n\r\nHave you finished your homework, gutter surfer? \r\nNow tell us your take in the Hamma massacre. ","author":""Jewbag"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:11:31","modified":"2003-06-30 12:11:31","fileurl":""},{"id":68422,"heading":"screwboy won't answer","article":"...still refusing to come up with evidence for your unsubstantiayed allegation that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust...mmmmmmm...\r\n\r\ncould it be that you can't?","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:13:33","modified":"2003-06-30 12:13:33","fileurl":""},{"id":68423,"heading":"Oh really?","article":""If you ever come near me, I'll make you wonder why you ever started supporting the "Palestinian" cause. "\r\n\r\nWhy dont u tell me where u are and well see about that little jew boy ;). Dont play yourself bitch. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:14:16","modified":"2003-06-30 12:14:16","fileurl":""},{"id":68424,"heading":"yes im going to my 7-11 shift","article":"if that what makes u happy little jewboy but......atleast I got a job ... hahaha","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:16:41","modified":"2003-06-30 12:16:41","fileurl":""},{"id":68425,"heading":"O-mar scored","article":"one insignificant temporary victory over me...\r\n\r\nI erroniously typed one of the shitty epithets he always hurls at me for my alias. Don't get carried away though. I'm not devestated, nor will be.\r\n\r\nFACT IS, O-MAR, YOU REMAIN A *TRASHBAG*. YOU CAN'T ALTER THIS :D :-)","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:17:20","modified":"2003-06-30 12:17:20","fileurl":""},{"id":68428,"heading":"Bad attempt at hijacking handle","article":"on June 29, 2003 08:13 AM.\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:21:46","modified":"2003-06-30 12:21:46","fileurl":""},{"id":68430,"heading":"It's getting clearer","article":"Now we're beginning to place all the pieces together, O-mar. \r\n\r\nYou ARE a 7-11 "luminary". Now I can see why you do such lousy homework about intellectually charged issues. \r\nHold on to that job, sucker. There's a glass ceiling over your head. Well, at least you're happy...","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:28:55","modified":"2003-06-30 12:28:55","fileurl":""},{"id":68436,"heading":"See you tomorrow.","article":"See you tomorrow.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 12:59:25","modified":"2003-06-30 12:59:25","fileurl":""},{"id":68440,"heading":"back to jewboy...","article":">>"Secondly, you have a blurred vision of the situation, due to anti-Israel slanted covering of the news which is almost always superficial too. What you dub "assassination" is in effect killing either "ticking bomb" terrorists, terrorists in action or their commanders. This is necessary to fight terror. As to bystanders getting killed, please read my postings from Tuesday June 17, 2003 07:03 AM, this hopefully will enlighten you. But remember I for one am not impressed by your sarcasm." >>\r\n\r\nI always felt the US media was rather pro-Israeli in it's coverage. Certainly not complete, but the light they paint this conflict in comes off as very anti-palestinian to me.\r\n"Assassination" is defined as the planned killing of another human. It makes no distinction as to whether he is good or bad, terrorist or not. Just like the US assassinated Osama Bin Laden (we hope). Either way, my point was it was very bad timing on Israel's part to do this during a "peace" talk. Sarcasm or not.\r\n\r\n>>"I don't know which person you refer to and not sure what you mean by a policy of tolerance. >>"\r\n\r\nI wasn't sure either.. that's why I was asking. :) I think Fresca said it, at the very top.\r\n\r\n\r\n>>"As to the Holocaust, 6 million Jews were murdered for no other reason than being Jewish. It would be best if you do your homework and study Jewish history and the period of the Holocaust in particular before you make such a callous statement. No, there's no way to "get over it". It's not simple as you're making it out to be here. If you were Jewish you would have though otherwise. You haven't walked yet a mile in my shoes, so you definitely have no right to exhort this. So, whenever I see a person acting anti-Semitically, I will call a spade a spade. ">>\r\n\r\nSomehow I'm relatively sure you were born a long time after the 1940's, so you didn't walk this particular mile yourself either. Although I'm sure you've had it ground into your head on a daily basis by your elders.\r\nBelieve me, I am sympathetic to the feelings. I'm Cherokee, and I think I needn't go into the horrors my people were also subjected to. At least your culture is intact, your religion, your language. Ours is all but gone now. Even I cannot speak in Tsalagi, I'm shamed to admit. But I cannot let my sadness for the past interfere with the current world. Otherwise I'd be out hating people too. The first to go would be sports teams called "Redskins" and "Indians". At least you don't have the Jersey Jews, or the Kansas City Kikes to constantly remind you you're second class.\r\nRegardless, as I did not walk the trail of tears myself, and you did not walk into a gas chamber yourself, this is our past and a past best left where it is. I did not mean to offend btw.\r\nSince I'm so misinformed it seems, do you have any decent sites I may use to read up on? Recent Jewish history and etc?","author":"The Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 13:40:41","modified":"2003-06-30 13:40:41","fileurl":""},{"id":68442,"heading":"screwboy still in denial","article":"screwboy:\r\n\r\nstill waiting for your evidence for your unsubstantiated statement that some 6 million jews died in the holocaust.","author":"screwboy still in denial","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 13:44:24","modified":"2003-06-30 13:44:24","fileurl":""},{"id":68443,"heading":"Are you serious?","article":">>"...still refusing to come up with evidence for your unsubstantiayed allegation that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust...mmmmmmm... \r\ncould it be that you can't?>>"\r\n\r\nPlease tell me you are joking around to piss him off. Because god forbid you are so stupid as to believe it was all a big hoax.\r\nAre you one of those that also believes we never landed on the moon? Do you believe JFK was an alien?\r\nDo you wear tinfoil hats to keep out the alien mind control beams?\r\n","author":"The Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 13:48:22","modified":"2003-06-30 13:48:22","fileurl":""},{"id":68444,"heading":"Unsubstantiated...","article":"The only reason that there is now a question as to the number killed, is because a known anti-Zionist, Abu Mazen, made claims that the Zionist party lied about it. He was obviously hoping to undermine the party's credibility, and he provided no proof of what he claimed.\r\nEven Mazen himself, made the statement that no one can prove the numbers either way.\r\nSo the proof you ask for does not exist. And neither does the proof to deny it. So it's quite idiotic to argue about it.","author":"The Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 13:58:57","modified":"2003-06-30 13:58:57","fileurl":""},{"id":68482,"heading":""Jewboy"","article":""...the person posting under the "Critical Thinker" handle is the same one who initially posted under "anti-moron"..."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies."","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 16:15:14","modified":"2003-06-30 16:15:14","fileurl":""},{"id":68517,"heading":"so where did the figure of 6 million come from?","article":"so if it is unporven then who came up with the figure of 6 million. Hey Im a firm believer in honesty about peoples history but I certainly dont believe in lies even if they are for a "good cause". \r\n\r\nFor example 6,000,000 people killed over the four years is and average of 4110 people every day for the duration of the 4 years of the second world war. And we are talking of countries under nazi control so were talking of Germany, France, Belgium, Poland. \r\n\r\nDo U know what 4110 people ever day means. That is over 1000 people more than the people who died in 9-11 EVERY DAY FOR 4 years. Where are all of the mass graves? Every time someone has tried to question these figures the whole Zionist propaganda machine has stood up to cover thhis lie claming anybody who questions this HOAX is anti semite, the same fucking crap they shit out everytime someone questions them. \r\n\r\nWell there is only so much shit one can take. This same soppy story is pumped into the minds of every day citizens with programs and films and tv shows The nazis are the all time favorite villains. So that everytime something comes up where jewish acts in the present day are questioned the whole Holocaust shit is thrown in our faces. Well in case people didnt notice the Palestinians did not cause the holocaust. The Zionists have forced their claim on to the people of Palestine just as the white settlers forced their claim on this land over your ancestors Rev. \r\n\r\nAnd let someone stand up today and say that what happened to the Native Americans wasnt cruel and unjust. It is not poitically and morally correct. Well The Zionists hope that they can do the same thing to the Palestinians. steal their lands and over time force them to accept the situation. Well with all due respect Rev to your ancestors and I am sure they were brave and honorable people, the Palestinians are cut from a different feather and are not accepting the fact that a barborous army backed by the most savage politicians \r\n\r\n(some charged with War crimes against Humanity http:\/\/www.badil.org\/Press\/2003\/press284-03.htm ) \r\n\r\nlocally and in the US can force their destinity. \r\n\r\nI was always of the opinion Rev and correct me if I am wrong that good people when they have suffered try their best to make sure others do not suffer the way they did. NOT that because they have suffered they should be given a free hand to snatch and steal from others. Do I feel sorry for the jews that died during the second world war. The innocent ones yes. Do I feel sorry for innocent Israelis that die today. Yes just as I feel sorry (more so) for innocent Palestinians that die because they are the victims in this war and for sure are the underdogs. \r\n\r\nRegarding the media it is extremely biased against the Palestinians. I have very rarely heard the Palestinians side and I have never heard the interviews of the families of "colateral damage". Obviously this one sided coverage is not good enough for Zionists and little Jewboys. The man hates the New York Times need I say more and that paper has never been charged with being pro arab. \r\n\r\nnoe for the little one \r\n\r\n"Now we're beginning to place all the pieces together, O-mar." \r\n\r\nWho is "we"? You and Fresca :D glad to see ur still thinking him as "we"\r\n\r\n"You ARE a 7-11 "luminary". Now I can see why you do such lousy homework about intellectually charged issues."\r\n\r\n*YAWN*\r\n\r\n"Hold on to that job, sucker. There's a glass ceiling over your head. Well, at least you're happy..."\r\n\r\nIm very happy. You should try being happy some time. its a good feeling but you have to stop lieing to do that. GOD has come up with some rules for U to achieve that. Maybe they look familiar\r\n\r\nTHREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain\r\n\r\nSIX: 'You shall not murder.' WHOAAAA!!!\r\n\r\nEIGHT: 'You shall not steal.' \r\n\r\nNINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.' \r\n\r\nWell there is no commandment about lieing so I guess that explains a lot. No wonder ur such a talented Liar Jewboy and that is NOT a compliment\r\n\r\nNow about your job search.......\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 20:03:10","modified":"2003-06-30 20:03:10","fileurl":""},{"id":68530,"heading":"what happened to the "if u were ever meet me"","article":"1. "O-mar couldn't care less about facts and truth when they stand in the way of his anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic hate agenda, what else is new? I may add he's also cognitively dissonanced regarding many facts about Sharon"\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.badil.org\/Press\/2003\/press284-03.htm\r\n\r\n"2. Our favorite knucklehead isn't aware that the Israeli military has always been answering to the Defense Ministry. "\r\n\r\nso it was under the Defence Ministry at the time. What was your point again? \r\n\r\n"3. The Israeli Northern Command General, Amir Drori, DID stop the massacre once he got word the Falanghas had been shooting many people and "clearing" houses. Had the Israeli forces been monitoring the 2 camps, General Drori would have ordered the massacre stopped in its tracks, early on. O-mar is lying. What else could have I expected? " \r\n\r\nwhat a joke? You invade an area and u dont monitor it? Thats against the rules of engagement LIAR. And under international law an invading army is responsible for the safety of people it invades. LIAR. What are u General Dori's left nut. Reality on ground is he did not stop it. What the fuck would u know U joblesss fuck. \r\n\r\n"4. Tricky-dick O-mar is trying to pull a manipulation here. The Ministry of Defense allowed the military to supply the Falanghas only with illumination shells (since the operation started at night) and one tractor sans the operator - in order to enable them to destroy bunkers and tunnels there. Prior to the operation the Falanghists demanded things like supporting tanks, artillery and aerial assistance but were turned down by the Ministry and military."\r\n\r\nWhats the point here? \r\n\r\n"You're a fucking "Palestinian"-wannable lying male whore. You're the one lying through your bloody teeth. What you've wrote doesn't prove Sharon had pre-knowledge of any intention on the part of the Christian forces to commit a massacre, nor did you prove I was lying or wrong. You're such a pathetic imbecile given the fact you're sure what you wrote proves Sharon knew of their intention to massacre"\r\n\r\nSharons record after 1982 also speaks for his actions darling, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER. You cant go in and thousands of people die , you create that situation, ur partners are the murderers and U sit back and say OH I DIDNT KNOW. Fuck you you Zionist motherfucker. He is directly responsible. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-06-30 21:21:35","modified":"2003-06-30 21:21:35","fileurl":""},{"id":68545,"heading":"debate coach the liar","article":""...the person posting under the "Critical Thinker" handle is the same one who initially posted under "anti-moron"... \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation"\r\n\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies."\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 05:25:38","modified":"2003-07-01 05:25:38","fileurl":""},{"id":68551,"heading":"About Rev's comments.","article":">>"I always felt the US media was rather pro-Israeli in it's coverage. Certainly not complete, but the light they paint this conflict in comes off as very anti-palestinian to me.<<"\r\n\r\nIf you're talking about Fox News, I agree. If you meant CNN, I disagree. They have a pro-"Palestinian" slant. \r\n\r\n>>"Either way, my point was it was very bad timing on Israel's part to do this during a "peace" talk.<<"\r\n\r\nYou're wrong about this. Protecting people from the scourge of terror is (or at least should be considered) an issue independent of negotiations. A state doesn't have a moral (or another sort of) mandate to stand by idly and let its citizens get murdered and massacred. Its duty is to prevent the murders from occurring, regardless of certain talks getting compromised as a result. There's never anything called "bad timing" when a state must defend its citizens from getting murdered by unscrupulous terrorists. Suppose Afghanistan was where Mexico is and the US was in the course of being at peace negotiations with the Taliban gov. yet Bin-Laden, who runs a terror group of his own, Al-Qaeda, would constantly send "foot soldiers" across the border to Texas to murder and massacre civilians irrespective of the talks. Wouldn't you think your military had a right to try assassinate Bin-Laden and his lieutenants? I would think so, but you're entitled to disagree. \r\n\r\n>>"Somehow I'm relatively sure you were born a long time after the 1940's, so you didn't walk this particular mile yourself either.<< "\r\n\r\nYeah, but I was talking about the mile of being Jewish and having to constantly endure anti-Semitism (which is coupled many times with anti-Zionism) by most of the world - which many times means I and my fellow Jews have been and are subjected to many kinds of discrimination and unfair treatment almost worldwide. Please don't forget the assorted Holocaust deniers, at least one example of whom you've seen here. A Holocaust denier can be someone who casts doubts on the number 6 million even though there's historical evidence to it, or someone who questions any other known detail. \r\n\r\n>>"Although I'm sure you've had it ground into your head on a daily basis by your elders.<<"\r\n\r\nA huge mistake on your part. How you can be that sure about someone you don't know and have barely communicated (online of all forms of communication) with boggles my mind. I learned the issue from family, at school, and yes, a few personal tales by my elders. I've learned through my parents and independent research and at school Jewish history and anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism. \r\n\r\n>>"At least your culture is intact, your religion, your language. "<<\r\n\r\nThat's true for the most part, but not entirely.\r\n\r\n>>"...this is our past and a past best left where it is." <<\r\n\r\nThe problem is most of the world doesn't let it be the past. For example, Since the current Intifada's outbreak in Sep. '00, much of Europe have been awashed with anti-Semitism in a manner hitherto unknown since WWII. Remember this is just ONE example.\r\n\r\n>>"Since I'm so misinformed it seems, do you have any decent sites I may use to read up on? Recent Jewish history and etc?" \r\n\r\nThere's a good website about the Holocaust: http:\/\/www.ess.uwe.ac.uk\/genocide\/Holocaust.htm . Read this for history of the State of Israel: http:\/\/ms.essortment.com\/palestineislam_rkev.htm . On http:\/\/masada2000.org\/ read the portions titled "Who Are The Palestinians? What & Where is Palestine?", "Palestine?", "The Return to Zion", "The Question of Jerusalem And the Temple Mount". \r\n\r\n>>"The only reason that there is now a question as to the number killed, is because a known anti-Zionist, Abu Mazen, made claims that the Zionist party lied about it. He was obviously hoping to undermine the party's credibility, and he provided no proof of what he claimed.<< "\r\n\r\nYou're right about Abu Mazen indulging in Holocaust denial, yet he's only one of many, unfortunately. There's vast literary material that has been put out by Holocaust deniers. One Holocaust denier is David Irving whom Dr. Deborah Lipstadt branded "an apologist for for Hitler". Irving took her to court for libel and lost. \r\nIn regards to what Abu-Mazen claimed, he said the Zionist movement, not party. \r\n\r\n>>"So the proof you ask for does not exist.<< "\r\n\r\nWrong Rev. First and foremost, the Nazis kept meticulous records about the number of Jews they killed in their camps. Secondly, the number of Jews in Europe on the eve of WWII was known, as well as their number after it. You subtract the latter from the former and get the result you're after. \r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 07:24:49","modified":"2003-07-01 07:24:49","fileurl":""},{"id":68554,"heading":"This thread here","article":" "The people who carry out suicide bombings are not martyrs, they're war criminals, and so are the people who help to plan such attacks," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. "The scale and systematic nature of these attacks sets them apart from other abuses committed in times of conflict. They clearly fall under the category of crimes against humanity."\r\n\r\nWell-established principles of international law require that those in authority be held accountable when people under their control commit war crimes or crimes against humanity. Leaders who order such crimes, fail to take reasonable preventive action, or fail to punish the perpetrators are also responsible for such crimes. ","author":"Scottie","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 07:57:04","modified":"2003-07-01 07:57:04","fileurl":""},{"id":68557,"heading":"Is O-mar getting serious?","article":">>"so if it is unporven then who came up with the figure of 6 million."<<\r\n\r\nIt's proven and serious historians came up with it.\r\n\r\n>>" Hey Im a firm believer in honesty about peoples history but I certainly dont believe in lies even if they are for a "good cause". <<\r\n\r\nNo you aren't. One way to demonstrate this is you've ignored all the facts I've posted refuting the "Palestinian" cause you support so blindly. You certainly believe in lies for the sake of a bad cause.\r\n\r\n>>"For example 6,000,000 people killed over the four years is and average of 4110 people every day for the duration of the 4 years of the second world war. And we are talking of countries under nazi control so were talking of Germany, France, Belgium, Poland."<<\r\n\r\nYou're knowledge of WWII is a joke. 4 years? WWII was 1939-1945. Do you know how to add? And you're talking about only 4 countries...at least I'm getting a good laugh on your account.\r\n\r\n>>"Where are all of the mass graves? "<<\r\n\r\nTake a few days off from 7-11 and study the issue.\r\n\r\n>>"Every time someone has tried to question these figures the whole Zionist propaganda machine has stood up to cover thhis lie claming anybody who questions this HOAX is anti semite..."<<\r\n\r\nNot only the Zionists defend the truth from its enemies (one of them is you), knucklehead. The Jewish people care about this issue, not only the Zionists among them. Your pathetic attempt at Holocaust denial is a hoax, no doubt.\r\n\r\n>>"Well there is only so much shit one can take. This same soppy story is pumped into the minds of every day citizens with programs and films and tv shows."<<\r\n\r\nI couldn't agree more. I'm really fed up with the inane drivel of the fake "Palestinian" "plight", history, propaganda, lies, etc being peddled non-stop over the last 30 odd years.\r\n\r\n>>"So that everytime something comes up where jewish acts in the present day are questioned the whole Holocaust shit is thrown in our faces." <<\r\n\r\nOnce again you're whining and lying. \r\n\r\n<<"Well in case people didnt notice the Palestinians did not cause the holocaust." <<\r\n\r\nThat's not entirely true. Go read about Hajj Amin Al-Husseini.\r\n\r\n<<"The Zionists have forced their claim on to the people of Palestine just as the white settlers forced their claim on this land over your ancestors Rev." "Well The Zionists hope that they can do the same thing to the Palestinians. steal their lands and over time force them to accept the situation.". <<\r\n\r\nPathetic tired bullshit lies coming from a person named O-mar who refuses to face the truth.\r\n\r\n<<"Well with all due respect Rev to your ancestors and I am sure they were brave and honorable people, the Palestinians are cut from a different feather and are not accepting the fact that a barborous army backed by the most savage politicians (some charged with War crimes against Humanity) locally and in the US can force their destinity."<< \r\n\r\nO-mar is lying as usual. And he himself is a person with a very hateful mind and an avid deceiver in his "Palestinian" brothers' favor.\r\n\r\n<<"NOT that because they have suffered they should be given a free hand to snatch and steal from others." <<\r\n\r\nThe Jews in the Land and State of Israel haven't and aren't asking for other nation's permission to carve out their national wishes and destiny. Once again O-mar is lying. It's the other way around - his "Palestinians" have snatched and stolen Jewish land and property.\r\n\r\n<<"Do I feel sorry for the jews that died during the second world war. The innocent ones yes." <<\r\n\r\nO-mar's kneejerk "evenhandedness" reflex compels him to presume there weren't innocent Jews during WWII. This is balderdash.\r\n\r\n<<"...innocent Palestinians that die because they are the victims in this war...." <<\r\n\r\nO-mar is telling half the truth.\r\n\r\n>>"Regarding the media it is extremely biased against the Palestinians."<< \r\n\r\nNot totally true.\r\n\r\n>>"I have very rarely heard the Palestinians side and I have never heard the interviews of the families of "colateral damage". "<<\r\n\r\nSo it's evident O-mar never watched those interviews on CNN (which his brethren deridingly brand "ZNN" - "Zionist News Network"). \r\n\r\n>>"The man hates the New York Times need I say more and that paper has never been charged with being pro arab."<<\r\n\r\nAre you sure, O-mar? In any rate, it has never been pro-Zionist.\r\n\r\n>>"You and Fresca :D glad to see ur still thinking him as "we" "<<\r\n\r\nI meant all the serious readers and debaters.\r\n\r\n>>["There's a glass ceiling over your head. Well, at least you're happy..."] Im very happy. "<<\r\n\r\nGood. Because that's as good as it gets for you. ;-)\r\n\r\n>>"You should try being happy some time."<<\r\n\r\nI'm happy many times, regardless of the fact you can't notice.\r\n\r\n>>"'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain ..."<<\r\n\r\nStop plagiarizing and leave my Ten Commandments to me. Mind your Quran. If you're so proud about the Quran, you should be invoking it rather than my holy scriptures when you "try" lecturing me.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 09:44:54","modified":"2003-07-01 09:44:54","fileurl":""},{"id":68559,"heading":"no proof for the 6 million","article":">>So the proof you ask for does not exist<<\r\n\r\nso why do you keep repeating\/parroting the unsubstantiated statement that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust?","author":"no proof for the 6 million","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 10:17:03","modified":"2003-07-01 10:17:03","fileurl":""},{"id":68560,"heading":"Is O-mar becoming more civil?","article":">>"so it was under the Defence Ministry at the time. What was your point again?"<<\r\n\r\nThe point was it was totally unnecessary for you to say the Israeli military was under the Defense Ministry. It's like saying that in 1964 the US armed forces were under the Pentagon at the time. Ridiculous.\r\n\r\n>>"You invade an area and u dont monitor it?"<<\r\n\r\nThe Israeli military didn't invade Sabra and Shatilla, like it or not. The Falanghas were entrusted by the IDF with the mission of invading those camps. The IDF didn't monitor them. \r\n\r\n>>"What are u General Dori's left nut. "<<\r\n\r\nI'm someone who set out to counter the lies you spew here ad infinitum. Are you Arabs' left nut?\r\n\r\n>>"Reality on ground is he did not stop it. What the fuck would u know U joblesss fuck. "<<\r\n\r\nYou're a fucking 7-11 "luminary" arch liar. So I'm right, you ARE cognitively dissonant.\r\n\r\n<<"Whats the point here?"<<\r\n\r\nThe point is you're trying to back away from your argument that the Ministry of Defense ordered the military to "give free hands and assistance to the Falanghas." \r\n\r\n<<"He is directly responsible. "<<\r\n\r\nYet another O-mar-esque lie.\r\n\r\n<<"You cant go in and thousands of people die , you create that situation, ur partners are the murderers and U sit back and say OH I DIDNT KNOW."<<\r\n\r\nThe Falanghas went in and began slaughtering - something which was above and beyond what they were entrusted with. They created that situation. The IDF initially didn't know. You can revolt against these facts from here to eternity but they won't change, you "Palestinian" anti-Semite cockhead. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 10:19:07","modified":"2003-07-01 10:19:07","fileurl":""},{"id":68562,"heading":"screwboy we're still waitin'","article":"screwboy,we're still waitin' for your 6-million evidence - or is it that you're intellectually dishonest?","author":"still waitin' for 6-million evidence","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 10:23:34","modified":"2003-07-01 10:23:34","fileurl":""},{"id":68564,"heading":"^","article":"It's more probable you're intellectually dishonest.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 10:39:26","modified":"2003-07-01 10:39:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68565,"heading":"screwboy the dog (matic)","article":">>First and foremost, the Nazis kept meticulous records about the number of Jews they killed in their camps. <<<\r\n\r\n\r\npray tell:\r\nwhere are these records telling us the 6-million figure?\r\n\r\nor is this just another unsubstantiated statement?","author":"screwboy the dog (matic)","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 10:44:13","modified":"2003-07-01 10:44:13","fileurl":""},{"id":68567,"heading":"no sources for the 6 million","article":".>>> Secondly, the number of Jews in Europe on the eve of WWII was known, as well as their number after it. You subtract the latter from the former and get the result you're after. <<<\r\n\r\n\r\njust what numbers are you talking about?\r\n\r\nwhere are the sources for these numbers?\r\n\r\nor are you just being intellectually dishonest as usual?","author":"no sources for the 6 million","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 10:48:40","modified":"2003-07-01 10:48:40","fileurl":""},{"id":68569,"heading":"debate coach the moran","article":""screwboy the dog (matic)", "no sources for the 6 million.", "are you just being intellectually dishonest as usual?"\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations.\r\n\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 11:02:03","modified":"2003-07-01 11:02:03","fileurl":""},{"id":68573,"heading":"screwboy we're waitin'","article":"...for your evidence that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust.","author":"screwboy we're waitin'","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 11:35:32","modified":"2003-07-01 11:35:32","fileurl":""},{"id":68574,"heading":"Screwie the sissie","article":""Screwboy"\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 11:39:23","modified":"2003-07-01 11:39:23","fileurl":""},{"id":68578,"heading":"Evidence?","article":"We conservatives don't NEED no evidence. By the way, I'm the one who is impersonating "debate coach." That fucker handed me my ass and now I'm childishly trying to get back at the shitbird.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 11:57:52","modified":"2003-07-01 11:57:52","fileurl":""},{"id":68579,"heading":"screrwboy the parrot","article":">>>We conservatives don't NEED no evidence<<<\r\n\r\nunsubstantiated allegation.\r\n\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:01:02","modified":"2003-07-01 12:01:02","fileurl":""},{"id":68580,"heading":"Ultra-Liberal liars","article":""by "Jewboy"\r\n\r\nWe conservatives don't NEED no evidence. By the way, I'm the one who is impersonating "debate coach." That fucker handed me my ass and now I'm childishly trying to get back at the shitbird. "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations.\r\nTry reading Logic for Dummies.\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:06:59","modified":"2003-07-01 12:06:59","fileurl":""},{"id":68582,"heading":"so now we know","article":"so the 6-million figure is just a fabrication...unless screwboy comes up with substantiation for it.\r\n\r\ncould it be that he can't?","author":"the 6-million fabrication","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:14:48","modified":"2003-07-01 12:14:48","fileurl":""},{"id":68583,"heading":""Debate coach"","article":"was impersonating me indeed. \r\n\r\nIf he and his friends stop dubbing me "screwboy" and start posting only under one handle instead of using multiple stupid statements, and if they stop resorting to other kinds of nonsense, then we might have some kind of debate to speak of. \r\n\r\nTo those who chose the "debate coach" and "critical thinker" handles, know that the first seems to me very Orwellian given his conduct so far. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:15:30","modified":"2003-07-01 12:15:30","fileurl":""},{"id":68584,"heading":"^","article":"That was not me.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:17:17","modified":"2003-07-01 12:17:17","fileurl":""},{"id":68586,"heading":"screwboy drop the excuses","article":"...and come up with evidence for your unsubstantiated allegation about some 6 million killed or we'll have to conclude you are intellectually dishonest.","author":"screwboy drop your alibis","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:19:43","modified":"2003-07-01 12:19:43","fileurl":""},{"id":68587,"heading":"liar","article":"" by "Jewboy" \u2022 Monday June 30, 2003 08:17 AM\r\nThat was not me. "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:22:21","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:27","fileurl":""},{"id":68590,"heading":"Liberal idiots and liars","article":"" by "Jewboy" \u2022 Monday June 30, 2003 08:23 AM\r\nThere were 6 million killed because Fox News said so. "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:27:37","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:27","fileurl":""},{"id":68592,"heading":"Liberal dolts and liars","article":"" so the 6-million figure is just a fabrication...unless screwboy comes up with substantiation for it. "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations.\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:30:10","modified":"2003-07-01 12:30:10","fileurl":""},{"id":68595,"heading":"Obvious impersonification","article":"This was someone impersonating myself:\r\n\r\n" by "Jewboy" \u2022 Monday June 30, 2003 08:23 AM\r\nThere were 6 million killed because Fox News said so. "\r\n\r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:40:34","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:27","fileurl":""},{"id":68597,"heading":"screwboy we're still waitin'","article":"...for evidence for your unsubstantiated claim that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust.","author":"screwboy we're still waitn'","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:44:30","modified":"2003-07-01 12:44:30","fileurl":""},{"id":68598,"heading":"Conservative dolts and liars","article":"by "Jewboy" \u2022 Monday June 30, 2003 08:40 AM\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nThis was someone impersonating myself: \r\n\r\n" by "Jewboy" \u2022 Monday June 30, 2003 08:23 AM \r\nThere were 6 million killed because Fox News said so. " \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies."\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 12:44:38","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:27","fileurl":""},{"id":68600,"heading":"screwboy in denial","article":"still no evidence that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust...\r\n\r\n\r\ncould it be that you're an holocaust denier?","author":"screwboy in denial","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:02:26","modified":"2003-07-01 13:02:26","fileurl":""},{"id":68602,"heading":"To Mr. "screwboy in denial":","article":"Nope, screwie. \r\nThe issue here is that YOU are a Holocaust denier. \r\n\r\nEither that or you're an immensely disturbed sicko.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:07:24","modified":"2003-07-01 13:07:24","fileurl":""},{"id":68603,"heading":"See you tomorrow","article":"I'm heading to work.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:08:41","modified":"2003-07-01 13:08:41","fileurl":""},{"id":68610,"heading":"sure you are? :D","article":"you mean your off to look for work...lol. There is a difference and plus you dont need to tell us where ur going. No one is gonna miss u here. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:27:30","modified":"2003-07-01 13:27:30","fileurl":""},{"id":68614,"heading":"screwboy the holocaust denier","article":"...just won't come up with evidence that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust - is he a nazi?","author":"screwboy the holocaust denier","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:30:35","modified":"2003-07-01 13:30:35","fileurl":""},{"id":68617,"heading":"the family jew-els :D","article":"Has anybody noticed how the burden of proof for everything is on the person arguin with jewfag. Whether he makes a point or the person cursing him down, digging into him, making look like a fool :D. One thing is for sure this idiot is very entertaining. What an ass? I can honestly say I look forward to coming on to the net everyday just to curse him out. Then my day goes really smooth ...hehehe... Thanks Jewboy for always making my day. Good luck with the job search. Im praying for u...in Hebrew :D","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:37:23","modified":"2003-07-01 13:37:23","fileurl":""},{"id":68618,"heading":"the family jew-els :D","article":"Has anybody noticed how the burden of proof for everything is on the person arguin with jewfag. Whether he makes a point or the person cursing him down, digging into him, making look like a fool :D. One thing is for sure this idiot is very entertaining. What an ass? I can honestly say I look forward to coming on to the net everyday just to curse him out. Then my day goes really smooth ...hehehe... Thanks Jewboy for always making my day. Good luck with the job search. Im praying for u...in Hebrew :D","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:37:43","modified":"2003-07-01 13:37:43","fileurl":""},{"id":68619,"heading":"Funny as hell....","article":"I dont know who you are Omar but your funny as hell :)))","author":"Jason Turner","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 13:40:55","modified":"2003-07-01 13:40:55","fileurl":""},{"id":68628,"heading":"noone can prove","article":"noone can prove the 6-million figure for jews killed in the holocaust - \r\n\r\ncould it be that it's a lie,planted by wealthy jews to make more reparation money?\r\n\r\nI once read that the yad vashem institute in jerusalem - the sole center reportedly that holds documented records of jewish holocaust victims - only has 1,5 million names.\r\n\r\nso who invented the 6-million figure and why?","author":"no proof for the 6 million","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 14:07:07","modified":"2003-07-01 14:07:07","fileurl":""},{"id":68645,"heading":"ROFL!!!","article":"So it's come to this.\r\n\r\nEventually all the racist threads distill down to the ole' Holocaust denial.\r\n\r\nWell, you got us. All that crap about deathcamps and dead Jews is just another way for Rich Jews to make a buck.\r\n\r\nBeyond how embarrassing it is to even respond to such ultra right-wing lunacy (which always wraps around to Ultra left-wing lunacy) it serves a needed function.\r\n\r\nAt the point that the racists have been reduced to this "argument", the discussion is obliterated. \r\n\r\nReductio ad absurdum.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 15:24:47","modified":"2003-07-01 15:24:47","fileurl":""},{"id":68649,"heading":"frescasshole","article":"got any evidence for the 6-million figure,or is baseless hogwash what you're all about as usual?\r\n\r\nare ytou an holocaust denier?","author":"frescasshole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 15:33:10","modified":"2003-07-01 15:33:10","fileurl":""},{"id":68654,"heading":"what we do for entertainment without u jewboy?","article":"Since the slacker is out probably begging for food since he doesnt have a job :D im gonna do this one for him. I hope u wont mind "no proof for the 6 million" :D\r\n\r\n"noone can prove the 6-million figure for jews killed in the holocaust - "\r\n\r\nIts been proven over and over again, without any proof what so ever, you ignoramous kncuckle sandwhich. Your lieing through your backside even though what u are saying makes sense, U wanna be Palestinian male slut\r\n\r\n"I once read that the yad vashem institute in jerusalem "\r\n\r\nDONT TALK OF THE yad vashem institute its MINE not yours you hear me. and ur lieing. If everybody will pay close attention everyone knows that 6 million can be divided into 4 equal parts if u divide it by 1.5 million so HA!!!\r\nThey just started counting. You still havent proven that 1.5 million is NOT 6 Million . The burden of proof is with U as I dont need to prove anything ever. \r\n\r\n"so who invented the 6-million figure and why?" \r\n\r\nIf U pay close attention to the nearly 3 thousand posts that I have posted on this thing since yesterday you will find the answer in there somewhere you ignoramous sewage dweller. Go and take a cookie and eat it and stuff the crumbs in the backside in the sewage.\r\n\r\nAlso the figure of 6 million is proven although there is no proof. It is a historical fact and many Historians who happen to be a part of my imagination have attested to this fact. The only reason u cant see it is because your not intelligent enough to understand my reasoning as no proof is required. \r\n\r\nim off to work (on the corner of Broadway and 39th street) \r\n","author":"Omar :D","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 15:36:46","modified":"2003-07-01 15:36:46","fileurl":""},{"id":68655,"heading":"we would obviously pick on Fresca","article":"Fresca U still havent proven that ur not gay. The burden of proof is on you :D","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 15:38:34","modified":"2003-07-01 15:38:34","fileurl":""},{"id":68663,"heading":"omar:D thanx","article":"that 11:36 of yours above was real fun.\r\n\r\nfinally someone with sense of humor and wits on this thread.thanx for cheering me up.","author":"omar:D thanx","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 15:56:28","modified":"2003-07-01 15:56:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68698,"heading":"pleeeease....","article":"Come on Fresca, I'm waiting. I really hope u are gay, because I have the sudden urge to dip your ass in a cherry Slurpee and rub it all over me.\r\nI'll be at the 711 on Broadway until about midnight.","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 17:49:43","modified":"2003-07-01 17:49:43","fileurl":""},{"id":68703,"heading":"if you really need proof","article":"Here's a list of books that go over the death tolls, AND how they came about these numbers. Also next to each book lists the death toll that it comes to. You will notice there's quite a lot of them:\r\nQuoted below:\r\n____________\r\nIt's the most intensively studied event of the 20th Century, so the margin of error is not quite a wide here as for most of the other wars and oppressions on this page. Most historians agree that the death toll was about 50 million (including wartime atrocities). If you don't believe me, here's just a sampling of the books I have on hand: \r\nHaywood: Atlas of World History (1997): 50M \r\nKeegan, J., The Second World War (1989): 50M \r\nMessenger, The Chronological Atlas of World War Two (1989): 50M \r\nThe Times Concise Atlas of World History (1988): 50M \r\nJ.M. Roberts, Twentieth Century (1999): >50M \r\nUrlanis: 50M \r\nSoldiers: 22.0M \r\nCivilians \r\nIn camps, from Fascist terror: 12.0M \r\nFrom hostilites, blockade, epidemics, hunger: 14.5M \r\nFrom bombing: 1.5M\r\nDictionary of Military History (1994): 41M \r\nWallechinsky: 40-55M \r\nKinder, The Anchor Atlas of World History (1978): 55M \r\nHammond: 55M \r\nSivard, Ruth Leger, World Military and Social Expenditures 1986 (11th ed.): 38,351,000 (1939-45), not incl. 1.8M in Sino-Japanese War (1937-41) \r\nBrzezinski: \r\nMilitary: 19M \r\nCivilians, "actual byproduct of hostilities": 20M \r\nCivilians, Sino-Japanese War: 15M \r\nHitler's murders: 17M \r\nTOTAL: 71M\r\nRummel: \r\nEuropean War Dead (1939-45): 28,736,000 \r\nSino-Japanese War Dead (1937-45): 7,140,000 \r\nWar-related Democides \r\nHitler: 20,946,000 \r\nStalin: 13,053,000 \r\nJapanese: 5,964,000 \r\nChinese Nationalist: 5,907,000 \r\nAllied Bombing: 796,000 \r\nCroatian: 655,000 \r\nTito: 600,000 \r\nRomanian domestic democide: 484,000 \r\nChinese Communist: 250,000 \r\nHungarian democide in Yugoslavia: 78,000 \r\n[TOTAL: 48,733,000]\r\n[TOTAL (1937-45): 84,609,000]\r\nAVERAGE \r\nThe MEDIAN of these estimates is 50M. \r\nIf we add up the country-by-country medians (of total death tolls) we get: \r\nLEVEL 1: 47.35M \r\nUSSR: 20.0M \r\nChina: 10.45M \r\nPoland: 5.8M \r\nGermany: 5.5M \r\nIndia: 2.15M \r\nJapan: 1.9M \r\nYugoslavia: 1.55M\r\nLEVEL 2: ca. 3.8M \r\nLEVEL 3: ca. 0.25M \r\nTOTAL: 51.4M\r\nThe country-by-country medians for military personnel killed in the war are: \r\nUSSR: 10.0M \r\nGermany: 3.5M \r\nChina: 2.05M \r\nJapan: 1.5M \r\nUSA: 0.4M \r\nRomania: 0.3M \r\nYugoslavia: 0.3M \r\nUK: 0.28M \r\nItaly: 0.23M \r\nFrance: 0.21M \r\nHungary: 0.14M \r\nPoland: 0.125M \r\nTOTAL: 19.0M\r\n__________End quoted text\r\n\r\n\r\nAnd dealing with jews only:\r\n____________________\r\nExtermination of the Jews: \r\nReitlinger, Gerald, The Final Solution (1953): between 4,194,200 and 4,851,200 (this number is accepted by Kinder, The Anchor Atlas of World History (1978)) \r\nBrzezinski: 5,000,000 \r\nChirot: 5,100,000 \r\n3,000,000 in death camps. \r\n1,300,000 massacred. \r\n800,000 by dis.\/maln. in ghettos\r\nRummel: 5,291,000 \r\nGrenville: 5-6M \r\nDavies, Europe A History (1998): 5,571,300 (puts the minimum at 4,871,000 and the maximum at 6,271,500.) \r\nMEDIAN: ca. 5.6M \r\nNuremberg indictment: 5,700,000 (accepted by Britannica) \r\nGutman, Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (1990): 5,596,029 to 5,860,129 \r\nP. Johnson: 5,800,000 \r\nWallechinsky: "nearly" 6,000,000 \r\nUrlanis: 6M\r\n\r\n\r\nBut I suppose all these authors were really Jews right? They were all paid off by rich jews to say that, even though the evidence didn't support it.","author":"The Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 18:03:37","modified":"2003-07-01 18:03:37","fileurl":""},{"id":68720,"heading":"that was so funny...","article":""Come on Fresca, I'm waiting. I really hope u are gay, because I have the sudden urge to dip your ass in a cherry Slurpee and rub it all over me. \r\nI'll be at the 711 on Broadway until about midnight."\r\n\r\nthat was so funny. I was ROFL for ages. The dip your ass in Cherry Slurpee and rub it over me is a classic. :D \r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 19:32:59","modified":"2003-07-01 19:32:59","fileurl":""},{"id":68721,"heading":"break up the numbers...","article":"What your saying is just a repeat of what we already know, that people claims there have been 6 million deaths. I want the break up and proofs of these numbers. These numbers mean nothing on their own. ","author":"Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 19:41:01","modified":"2003-07-01 19:41:01","fileurl":""},{"id":68725,"heading":"well...","article":""Come on Fresca, I'm waiting. I really hope u are gay, because I have the sudden urge to dip your ass in a cherry Slurpee and rub it all over me. \r\nI'll be at the 711 on Broadway until about midnight."\r\n\r\n...I don't know... are you going to clean all the pork crumbs out of your beard first?","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 19:58:44","modified":"2003-07-01 19:58:44","fileurl":""},{"id":68775,"heading":"Omar","article":"In as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not. \r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. " \r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. \r\n","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:08:15","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68776,"heading":"Omar","article":"In as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not. \r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. " \r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. \r\n","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:08:24","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68777,"heading":"Omar","article":"In as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not. \r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. " \r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. \r\n","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:08:25","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68778,"heading":"Omar","article":"In as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not. \r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. " \r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. \r\n","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:08:26","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68780,"heading":"BIATCHHH","article":"In as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not. \r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. " \r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. \r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:08:43","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68781,"heading":"BIATCHHH","article":"In as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not. \r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. " \r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. \r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:08:46","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68782,"heading":"BIATCHHH","article":"In as much as this is even true, so what? Of course Israel would try and support a movement that would undermine the power of the monstrous PLA. Does that mean that Isreal set out to design a murderous group of Islamic terrorists bent on destroying Israel itself? Well what do you think? Obviously not. \r\n\r\n"Kurtzer said that the growth of the Islamic movement in the Palestinian territories in recent decades\u2014"with the tacit support of Israel"\u2014was "not totally unrelated" to the emergence of Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their terrorist attacks against Israel. " \r\n\r\nThe fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. \r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:08:48","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:28","fileurl":""},{"id":68791,"heading":"very good....","article":"Looks like this nick hijacking game is a free for all :D the monstrous PLO???? Now U know that that cant be the real slim shady :D Must be the little jewboy trying hard to make me look bad. Looks like he didnt find that job. oh well keep trying ;)","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-01 21:19:08","modified":"2003-07-01 21:19:08","fileurl":""},{"id":68901,"heading":"Dio...","article":"Are u the same guy who I praised a few weeks ago for his brilliant adition to indy. I have a lot of respect for U bro. I will discuss things with U tomorrow. I dont have the time right now. ","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 01:35:19","modified":"2003-07-02 01:35:19","fileurl":""},{"id":68906,"heading":"Hey O-mar","article":"I second the other anonymous. Even I started cracking up reading your spoof along with your other drivel. Keep up the humor!\r\n\r\nSo you said WWii lasted 4 years and was fought in 4 countries. The Nobel peace prize committee should grant you the math prize. :-)\r\n\r\nYou STILL haven't been able to refute any of the facts about Sabra & Shatilla. How could the mighty have fallen. :-(\r\n\r\nRemember, you've said you're happy with the glass ceiling over your head. And you surely know that's as good as it gets for you. Proof positive a loser can enjoy being one. ;-) \r\n\r\nSee ya, COCKHEAD","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 06:14:56","modified":"2003-07-02 06:14:56","fileurl":""},{"id":68909,"heading":"P.S. to O-mar","article":"TRASHBAG, you prayed for me "in Hebrew"...oh really?\r\nWhy don't you share with us now which words exactly - transliterate them here; I'll provide everyone with the translation. \r\n\r\nI've noticed you've kicked the addiction of referring to fresca as a cow or corn eating heifer...or is it a remission? \r\nSpeaking of which, you still must provide evidence to dispel the thesis you're a Kashmiri Hindu apostate. \r\n\r\nYou spoke of your "respect" for Dio and how he passed your "test" with flying colors. Will you start cussing him out soon if you realize he doesn't take your every sentence as gospel? ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 07:01:00","modified":"2003-07-02 07:01:00","fileurl":""},{"id":68910,"heading":"Back to Rev","article":"On a serious note, Rev: don't you have any comments or questions to me?","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 07:10:38","modified":"2003-07-02 07:10:38","fileurl":""},{"id":68911,"heading":"sorry..","article":">>"What your saying is just a repeat of what we already know, that people claims there have been 6 million deaths. I want the break up and proofs of these numbers. These numbers mean nothing on their own. ">>\r\n\r\nI'm sorry I don't have a handy internet link ready for you with all the information you want. You just might have to get off your ass, go to a library (as antiquated as that sounds) and actually check out one of the books I listed. I'm sure they will doubtless list their sources and means by which they calculated the death totals.","author":"The Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 09:14:20","modified":"2003-07-02 09:14:20","fileurl":""},{"id":68912,"heading":"not yet","article":"Not yet, I'm still reading. :)\r\n\r\nOh, I have to admit I got a chuckle or two from the slurpee comments myself. I give Omar credit for laughing along instead of getting angry.","author":"The Rev","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 09:24:55","modified":"2003-07-02 09:24:55","fileurl":""},{"id":68921,"heading":"See you tomorrow","article":"Rev, I'm off to work (wherever O-mar the luminary says).","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 13:00:42","modified":"2003-07-02 13:00:42","fileurl":""},{"id":68925,"heading":"By way of deception thou shalt fight war... NOT :D","article":""Even I started cracking up reading your spoof along with your other drivel. Keep up the humor! "\r\n\r\nIm glad to see that me and you have the ability to laugh at you.\r\n\r\n"So you said WWii lasted 4 years and was fought in 4 countries."\r\n\r\nIs that what I said? so lets do the math again. 6,000,000 people divided by 1825 days of the 5 years equals to 3288 people slaughtered in concentration camps. That is around 200 people more DEAD per day, than 9\/11, FOR 5 YEARS; FOR ONE YEAR MORE THAN I HAD STATED EARLIER. Where are the mass graves? Where are all those bodies\r\n\r\nAs for your second point it was a "deception" as i stated that for us to look at the jews that died we need to look at the countries that were under Nazi control AS THEY WERE CARRYING OUT THE EXTERMINATION and those were the main countries where the jewish populations resided. Im sorry I thought you would be intelligent enough to catch onto that fact. Should have known better.\r\n\r\n"The Nobel peace prize committee should grant you the math prize. :-)"\r\n\r\nThe nobel peace prize comittee should hire u as a janitor\r\n\r\n"You STILL haven't been able to refute any of the facts about Sabra & Shatilla. How could the mighty have fallen. :-( "\r\n\r\nStill trying to hard to get me to talk about what U wanna talk about. You have to be one of the most thickheaded people I have had a "conversation" with.\r\n\r\n"And you surely know that's as good as it gets for you. Proof positive a loser can enjoy being one. ;-) "\r\n\r\nno actually I dont know. Why dont you explain it to me? You have still not proven that I am a loser. The burden of proof is on you :D\r\n\r\n"See ya COCKHEAD"\r\n\r\nYou wanna see my Cockhead :D In your dreams u zionist fag. \r\n\r\n"you prayed for me "in Hebrew"...oh really? "\r\n\r\nyou really are that stupid\r\n\r\n"you still must provide evidence to dispel the thesis you're a Kashmiri Hindu apostate" \r\n\r\nYou still havent provided evidence U have a job, that ur a man, that ur not gay, that ur not an israeli spy, that your not on the dole, that u dont beg for food etc etc etc\r\n\r\n"You spoke of your "respect" for Dio and how he passed your "test" with flying colors"\r\n\r\nMy test with flying colors????? where did U get that? whats the color of the sky in your world again?\r\n\r\n"Will you start cussing him out soon if you realize he doesn't take your every sentence as gospel? "\r\n\r\nMy cursing is reserved for obnoxious people such as yourself and ur life partner Fresca, who still hasnt provided proof that he is not gay\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 13:19:19","modified":"2003-07-02 13:19:19","fileurl":""},{"id":68936,"heading":"cant fool us....","article":""Rev, I'm off to work (wherever O-mar the luminary says)."\r\n\r\nsure you are :D \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-02 13:51:33","modified":"2003-07-02 13:51:33","fileurl":""},{"id":69122,"heading":"Just in case ur wondering jackass...","article":"That is exactly what U sound like. The "you still havent proven that 1.5 million is not 6 million" line is all your arguments in a nutshell","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 00:23:40","modified":"2003-07-03 00:23:40","fileurl":""},{"id":69132,"heading":"Listen up","article":"Now, the Nazi didn\u2019t start killing outright, until early 1942 after Wannese, although many still died before. Although there were 30 concentration camps, there we five custom built extermination camps, Auschwitz being the largest. Although all five would never always be in operation every day. To give you are idea of the \u201cscope\u201d, Auschwitz was setting records near the end of the war in excess of 6,000 a day. So Omar you\u2019re good at math, what\u2019s 6,000 people a day for 3 years. Do forget to add the ones that weren\u2019t gassed, and just died of disease or starvation.\r\n\r\nThe 5.7 million figure given at Nuremburg, and there was another conversional study putting the figure at 4-5 million, I heard about, but failing to understand the degree of the holocaust is a limitation of yourself. However, a \u201cJewish trick\u201d is to refer to the deaths as 6 million Jews, in fact about 1 million of the victims were gypsies, not to mention the Socialists, Communists, and trouble making Germans.\r\n\r\nI also find it funny when \u201cyou people\u201d talk about \u201cgenocide\u201d and \u201cwar crimes\u201d you have no idea.\r\n\r\n\u201cWe no longer fear Hell, for we have already been there\u201d\r\n","author":"To Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 02:20:45","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:32","fileurl":""},{"id":69143,"heading":"Lazy O-mar still in denial","article":"*** First off, the lighter stuff:\r\n\r\n>>"Im glad to see that me and you have the ability to laugh at you. "<<\r\n\r\nYou're deluding yourself as usual. I can look at myself humorously. That's not to say I'm making fun of myself. The one I laugh at is you - and you never fail to provide me with fresh reasons.\r\n\r\n>>"My cursing is reserved for obnoxious people such as yourself "<<\r\n\r\nIt happens to be preserved to me now 'cause I'm the only person who exposes you for the fool you are. No other reason. \r\nShould someone else join the bandwagon, they'll be subjected to the same obnoxious musings of a lazy and hateful simpleton that you are.\r\n\r\n>>"whats the color of the sky in your world again?"<<\r\n\r\nMuch brighter than yours.\r\n\r\n>>"You still havent provided evidence U have a job, that ur a man, that ur not gay..."<<\r\n\r\nYou still must provide evidence to dispel the thesis you're a Kashmiri Hindu apostate.\r\n\r\n<<"no actually I dont know. You have still not proven that I am a loser."<<\r\n\r\nOK, so you've forgotten. Typical of a demented individual like yourself. I don't need to prove this - your musings speak volumes to this affect.\r\n\r\n<<"Still trying to hard to get me to talk about what U wanna talk about. You have to be one of the most thickheaded people I have had a "conversation" with."<<\r\n\r\nWhy don't you come on out and admit you don't wanna discuss Sabra & Shatilla anymore, instead of making excuses. From my end, also I regard the whole exchanges with you here as a "conversation" - you'll never learn a damn thing, even if you want to.\r\n\r\n<<"The "you still havent proven that 1.5 million is not 6 million" line is all your arguments in a nutshell."<< \r\n\r\nYou penned this nonsensical line and it seems to be the highest level of discourse you're capable of. Go back to clean the toilets at 7-11. \r\n\r\n*** Now the greater issues:\r\n\r\n>>"["you said WWii lasted 4 years and was fought in 4 countries."] "Is that what I said? so lets do the math again. 6,000,000 people divided by 1825 days of the 5 years equals to 3288 people slaughtered in concentration camps. That is around 200 people more DEAD per day, than 9\/11, FOR 5 YEARS; FOR ONE YEAR MORE THAN I HAD STATED EARLIER. Where are the mass graves? Where are all those bodies."<<\r\n\r\nYou're STILL a joker and deluded loser - and a demented one at that. You can't remember you said 4 years and 4 countries...you're currently at 5 years, ha!!...it's nice to have you as the clown on duty here. You always kid yourself every reader is dumb like you. I'll now provide some data but I don't expect it to sink in to your pathetic thick skull you ignoramus, gutter dweller or not. \r\n\r\n1. WWII was from 1939 to1945. Don't try to do the math - it's too hard for you and you don't wanna strain yourself. But the other readers know how many years that is.\r\n\r\n2. There are numerous unmarked mass (and non-mass) graves, ergo their location is unknown throughout Eastern Europe. There are many such that predate the decision on the so-called "Final Solution to the Jewish problem" in late 1941. I'm sure you'll still be wondering forever where the bodies are. I've come to expect this from you. As for the known mass graves, one of them is at Babi Yar near Kiev (in Ukraine) where a massacre took place. \r\n\r\n3. The Holocaust didn't begin with the death camps. The Nazis began perpetrating their murderous designs already in Sep1939 when they invaded Poland - they pressed the Jews into utmost inhuman forced labor, which took its toll on Jewish lives. Ghettos were set up During 1940-1942 in which all the Jews in Poland as well as many who had been transported from Austria, Germany and possibly other countries were crammed, where mortality rates were very high due to huger and diseases induced by the excessive density and horrific life conditions in them, in addition to being starved and subjected to abuse by the Nazis. When the Nazis launched their attack on the USSR 6\/22\/41, special SS units accompanying the Wehrmacht (regular army) murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews by shooting and operating "gass vehicles" (vehicles whose exhaust pipe had been turned in to the cabin as to suffocate the commuters). \r\n\r\nJews were transported from the ghettos to the concentration and death camps by trains that pulled CATTLE cars. Loads of Jews were crammed into every single car; the ride to the camps was very often lengthy and many Jews died of thirst and suffocation in the process. \r\nThose who weren't sent to the gas chambers in the camps upon arrival were either shot, hung, brutally flagged or worked to death; also, those who lost their sanity and opted to commit suicide (like by jumping on the electric barbed wire which surrounded the camps) are among the victims. \r\nAside from the above, the Nazis would randomly shoot Jews to death throughout the whole war and other Jews died of cold weather and diseases within the camps . \r\n\r\nAs for the victims of the death camps: their bodies were cremated in huge crematoriums that were operated by Jews who had been coerced into doing that. So nothing remained of their bodies - whatever didn't go up the chimneys turned into ashes. The ashes were either made into fertilizers or soap. Do you dig this, O-mar? (I don't think so.)\r\n\r\nIt's anyone's guess why you're waving the 9\/11 incident - where does it belong here? The fact you can't grasp the depth of the atrocity is your problem, not mine.\r\n\r\n<<" As for your second point it was a "deception" as i stated that for us to look at the jews that died we need to look at the countries that were under Nazi control AS THEY WERE CARRYING OUT THE EXTERMINATION and those were the main countries where the jewish populations resided. Im sorry I thought you would be intelligent enough to catch onto that fact. "<<\r\n\r\nWhat's all this mumbo-jumbo, dickhead? You're trying in vain to hide your own deception. \r\nThere were death and concentration camps scattered in most European countries. Examples: Hungary, Italy, Holland, Austria, France, Russia, Czechoslovakia, The Balkans and Baltic states (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania). Altogether there were more than 100 of them. So, O-mar, I'm glad to see you've come around to the correct way of viewing it as you say "for us to look at the jews that died we need to look at the countries that were under Nazi control AS THEY WERE CARRYING OUT THE EXTERMINATION". \r\n\r\nThe 2nd part of your statement is balderdash though. The Nazis conquered Denmark and Norway in April-May 1940, France and the Benelux in May-June 1940; Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Yugoslavia in October1940-May 1941. In short, you lazy ignoramus pathetic Holocaust denier, almost all of Europe had fallen under Nazi control during various stages of WWII and the Jews in most countries were sent to the camps. Even Libyan Jews were sent to death camps in Europe when the Germans occupied Libya (as well as Scandinavian and Greek Jews, for example). \r\nI'm not surprised you're way to dolty to grasp all this data (and too lazy to study them, too). \r\n\r\nBetter leave your head in your ass rather than pop it out and erupt with your usual anal rhetoric.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 06:05:32","modified":"2003-07-03 06:05:32","fileurl":""},{"id":69145,"heading":"of course","article":"you dont give a fuck about\r\nthe Jehovahs witnesses\r\nthe slavs\r\nthe homosexuals\r\nand the gypsies\r\nthat were also killed.\r\nonly the JEWS?\r\nYou have proven yourself to be a zionist and\r\nan enemy of free thought.\r\nGo back to fucking israel.\r\nnobody cares to hear your zionistic bullshit\r\nhere.\r\nFuck israel.\r\nLet it burn.","author":"anti-zionazi","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 06:24:16","modified":"2003-07-03 06:24:16","fileurl":""},{"id":69146,"heading":"To the anonymous:","article":"About 1\/2 a million gypsies were murdered in WWII, not 1 million. \r\nSecondly, the Christian Germans you mention were murdered indeed but Jews don't consider them part of the Jewish death toll and they have nothing to do with the Jewish Holocaust.\r\nThere's no "Jewish trick" at work here. What puzzles me are your motives behind this statement. Are you trying to downplay the Jewish death toll through the back door?\r\n\r\nApart from that I agree with your statements.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 06:48:07","modified":"2003-07-03 06:48:07","fileurl":""},{"id":69147,"heading":"To "anti-zionazi"","article":"The strain of conversation now is on the Jewish Holocaust, like it or not. Thus we're mostly discussing the Jewish victims. \r\n\r\nIf you don't like it you're more than welcome to get off this discussion because no one needs or cares for your racist rantings here. \r\nBetter yet, why don't you go back to the country YOU came from and fuck off. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 06:55:56","modified":"2003-07-03 06:55:56","fileurl":""},{"id":69149,"heading":"aw geez","article":"N30 Black Bloc Communique\r\n\r\nby ACME Collective 10:48am Sat Dec 4 '99\r\n\r\nA communique from one section of the black bloc of N30 in Seattle \r\n\r\nOn November 30, several groups of individuals in black bloc attacked various corporate targets in downtown Seattle. Among them were (to name just a few): \r\n\r\nFidelity Investment (major investor in Occidental Petroleum, the bane of the U'wa tribe in Columbia) \r\n\r\nBank of America, US Bancorp, Key Bank and Washington Mutual Bank (financial institutions key in the expansion of corporate repression) \r\n\r\nOld Navy, Banana Republic and the GAP (as Fisher family businesses, rapers of Northwest forest lands and sweatshop laborers) \r\n\r\nNikeTown and Levi's (whose overpriced products are made in sweatshops) \r\n\r\nMcDonald's (slave-wage fast-food peddlers responsible for destruction of tropical rainforests for grazing land and slaughter of animals) \r\n\r\nStarbucks (peddlers of an addictive substance whose products are harvested at below-poverty wages by farmers who are forced to destroy their own forests in the process) \r\n\r\nWarner Bros. (media monopolists) \r\n\r\nPlanet Hollywood (for being Planet Hollywood) \r\n\r\nThis activity lasted for over 5 hours and involved the breaking of storefront windows and doors and defacing of facades. Slingshots, newspaper boxes, sledge hammers, mallets, crowbars and nail-pullers were used to strategically destroy corporate property and gain access (one of the three targeted Starbucks and Niketown were looted). Eggs filled with glass etching solution, paint-balls and spray-paint were also used. \r\n\r\nThe black bloc was a loosely organized cluster of affinity groups and individuals who roamed around downtown, pulled this way by a vulnerable and significant storefront and that way by the sight of a police formation. Unlike the vast majority of activists who were pepper-sprayed, tear-gassed and shot at with rubber bullets on several occasions, most of our section of the black bloc escaped serious injury by remaining constantly in motion and avoiding engagement with the police. We buddied up, kept tight and watched each others' backs. Those attacked by federal thugs were un-arrested by quick-thinking and organized members of the black bloc. The sense of solidarity was awe-inspiring. \r\n\r\nTHE PEACE POLICE\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, the presence and persistence of "peace police" was quite disturbing. On at least 6 separate occasions, so-called "non-violent" activists physically attacked individuals who targeted corporate property. Some even went so far as to stand in front of the Niketown super store and tackle and shove the black bloc away. Indeed, such self-described "peace-keepers" posed a much greater threat to individuals in the black bloc than the notoriously violent uniformed "peace-keepers" sanctioned by the state (undercover officers have even used the cover of the activist peace-keepers to ambush those who engage in corporate property destruction). \r\n\r\nRESPONSE TO THE BLACK BLOC\r\n\r\nResponse to the black bloc has highlighted some of the contradictions and internal oppressions of the "nonviolent activist" community. Aside from the obvious hypocrisy of those who engaged in violence against black-clad and masked people (many of whom were harassed despite the fact that they never engaged in property destruction), there is the racism of privileged activists who can afford to ignore the violence perpetrated against the bulk of society and the natural world in the name of private property rights. Window-smashing has engaged and inspired many of the most oppressed members of Seattle's community more than any giant puppets or sea turtle costumes ever could (not to disparage the effectiveness of those tools in other communities). \r\n\r\nTEN MYTHS ABOUT THE BLACK BLOC\r\n\r\nHere's a little something to dispel the myths that have been circulating about the N30 black bloc: \r\n\r\n1. "They are all a bunch of Eugene anarchists." While a few may be anarchists from Eugene, we hail from all over the United States, including Seattle. In any case, most of us are familiar with local issues in Seattle (for instance, the recent occupation of downtown by some of the most nefarious of multinational retailers). \r\n\r\n2. "They are all followers of John Zerzan." A lot of rumors have been circulating that we are followers of John Zerzan, an anarcho-primitivist author from Eugene who advocates property destruction. While some of us may appreciate his writings and analyses, he is in no sense our leader, directly, indirectly, philisophocally or otherwize. \r\n\r\n3. "The mass public squat is the headquarters of the anarchists who destroyed property on November 30th." In reality, most of the people in the "Autonomous Zone" squat are residents of Seattle who have spent most of their time since its opening on the 28th in the squat. While they may know of one-another, the two groups are not co-extensive and in no case could the squat be considered the headquarters of people who destroyed property. \r\n\r\n4. "They escalated situations on the 30th, leading to the tear-gassing of passive, non-violent protesters." To answer this, we need only note that tear-gassing, pepper-spraying and the shooting of rubber bullets all began before the black blocs (as far as we know) started engaging in property destruction. In addition, we must resist the tendency to establish a causal relationship between police repression and protest in any form, whether it involved property destruction or not. The police are charged with protecting the interests of the wealthy few and the blame for the violence cannot be placed upon those who protest those interests. \r\n\r\n5. Conversely: "They acted in response to the police repression." While this might be a more positive representation of the black bloc, it is nevertheless false. We refuse to be misconstrued as a purely reactionary force. While the logic of the black bloc may not make sense to some, it is in any case a pro-active logic. \r\n\r\n6. "They are a bunch of angry adolescent boys." Aside from the fact that it belies a disturbing ageism and sexism, it is false. Property destruction is not merely macho rabble-rousing or testosterone-laden angst release. Nor is it displaced and reactionary anger. It is strategically and specifically targeted direct action against corporate interests. \r\n\r\n7. "They just want to fight." This is pretty absurd, and it conveniently ignores the eagerness of "peace police" to fight us. Of all the groups engaging in direct action, the black bloc was perhaps the least interested in engaging the authorities and we certainly had no interest in fighting with other anti-WTO activists (despite some rather strong disagreements over tactics). \r\n\r\n8. "They are a chaotic, disorganized and opportunistic mob." While many of us could surely spend days arguing over what "chaotic" means, we were certainly not disorganized. The organization may have been fluid and dynamic, but it was tight. As for the charge of opportunism, it would be hard to imagine who of the thousands in attendance _didn't_ take advantage of the opportunity created in Seattle to advance their agenda. The question becomes, then, whether or not we helped create that opportunity and most of us certainly did (which leads us to the next myth): \r\n\r\n9. "They don't know the issues" or "they aren't activists who've been working on this." While we may not be professional activists, we've all been working on this convergence in Seattle for months. Some of us did work in our home-towns and others came to Seattle months in advance to work on it. To be sure, we were responsible for many hundreds of people who came out on the streets on the 30th, only a very small minority of which had anything to do with the black bloc. Most of us have been studying the effects of the global economy, genetic engineering, resource extraction, transportation, labor practices, elimination of indigenous autonomy, animal rights and human rights and we've been doing activism on these issues for many years. We are neither ill-informed nor unexperienced. \r\n\r\n10. "Masked anarchists are anti-democratic and secretive because they hide their identities." Let's face it (with or without a mask)--we aren't living in a democracy right now. If this week has not made it plain enough, let us remind you--we are living in a police state. People tell us that if we really think that we're right, we wouldn't be hiding behind masks. "The truth will prevail" is the assertion. While this is a fine and noble goal, it does not jive with the present reality. Those who pose the greatest threat to the interests of Capital and State will be persecuted. Some pacifists would have us accept this persecution gleefully. Others would tell us that it is a worthy sacrifice. We are not so morose. Nor do we feel we have the privilege to accept persecution as a sacrifice: persecution to us is a daily inevitability and we treasure our few freedoms. To accept incarceration as a form of flattery betrays a large amount of "first world" privilege. We feel that an attack on private property is necessary if we are to rebuild a world which is useful, healthful and joyful for everyone. And this despite the fact that hypertrophied private property rights in this country translate into felony charges for any property destruction over $250. \r\n\r\nMOTIVATIONS OF THE BLACK BLOC\r\n\r\nThe primary purpose of this communique is to diffuse some of the aura of mystery that surrounds the black bloc and make some of its motivations more transparent, since our masks cannot be. \r\n\r\nON THE VIOLENCE OF PROPERTY\r\n\r\nWe contend that property destruction is not a violent activity unless it destroys lives or causes pain in the process. By this definition, private property--especially corporate private property--is itself infinitely more violent than any action taken against it. \r\n\r\nPrivate property should be distinguished from personal property. The latter is based upon use while the former is based upon trade. The premise of personal property is that each of us has what s\/he needs. The premise of private property is that each of us has something that someone else needs or wants. In a society based on private property rights, those who are able to accrue more of what others need or want have greater power. By extension, they wield greater control over what others perceive as needs and desires, usually in the interest of increasing profit to themselves. \r\n\r\nAdvocates of "free trade" would like to see this process to its logical conclusion: a network of a few industry monopolists with ultimate control over the lives of the everyone else. Advocates of "fair trade" would like to see this process mitigated by government regulations meant to superficially impose basic humanitarian standards. As anarchists, we despise both positions. \r\n\r\nPrivate property--and capitalism, by extension--is intrinsicly violent and repressive and cannot be reformed or mitigated. Whether the power of everyone is concentrated into the hands of a few corporate heads or diverted into a regulatory apparatus charged with mitigating the disasters of the latter, no one can be as free or as powerful as they could be in a non-hierarchical society. \r\n\r\nWhen we smash a window, we aim to destroy the thin veneer of legitimacy that surrounds private property rights. At the same time, we exorcize that set of violent and destructive social relationships which has been imbued in almost everything around us. By "destroying" private property, we convert its limited exchange value into an expanded use value. A storefront window becomes a vent to let some fresh air into the oppressive atmosphere of a retail outlet (at least until the police decide to tear-gas a nearby road blockade). A newspaper box becomes a tool for creating such vents or a small blockade for the reclamation of public space or an object to improve one's vantage point by standing on it. A dumpster becomes an obstruction to a phalanx of rioting cops and a source of heat and light. A building facade becomes a message board to record brainstorm ideas for a better world. \r\n\r\nAfter N30, many people will never see a shop window or a hammer the same way again. The potential uses of an entire cityscape have increased a thousand-fold. The number of broken windows pales in comparison to the number broken spells--spells cast by a corporate hegemony to lull us into forgetfulness of all the violence committed in the name of private property rights and of all the potential of a society without them. Broken windows can be boarded up (with yet more waste of our forests) and eventually replaced, but the shattering of assumptions will hopefully persist for some time to come. \r\n\r\nAgainst Capital and State, \r\n\r\nthe ACME Collective \r\n\r\n"Peasant Revolt!" \r\n\r\n-------------\r\nDisclaimer: these observations and analyses represent only those of the ACME Collective and should not be construed to be representative of the rest of the black bloc on N30 or anyone else who engaged in riot or property destruction that day. ","author":"art","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2003-07-03 07:35:33","modified":"2005-08-15 01:32:18","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/07\/mnblkjhb.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/07\/mnblkjhb.jpg"}},{"id":69151,"heading":"that was a good point anti zionist...","article":"Dear little jewboy as always you are amusing. See I admit I am a little lazy; I admit it. I am simply not bothered to doll out the history of the second world war when the point of discussion is something else. You have a knack for clinging onto useless information that has nothing to do with the argument AT THE TIME and in doing so U change the subject. The line that most amuses me is \r\n\r\n"There are numerous unmarked mass (and non-mass) graves, ergo their location is unknown throughout Eastern Europe" \r\n\r\nThats like saying there is a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow. Well how the fuck are u gonna prove it to me if you dont have data that backs your point and how on God's earth can u put on a number on something that you dont know about. As usual your logic is no logic at all. \r\n\r\nIll get back to your shit soon enough. I need to get ready and go for my 7-11 shift.. LOL :D","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 07:42:01","modified":"2003-07-03 07:42:01","fileurl":""},{"id":69152,"heading":"corporate crime","article":"A16 Anarchist and Anti-Capitalist Activities\r\n\r\nMassive Rally and Non-Violent Protest at the IMF & World Bank in Washington DC Sun-Mon April 16-17, 2000 \r\n\r\nUpdated: April 22, 2000\r\n\r\nThousands of anarchists are coming to Washington, DC for the April 16 weekend of anti-IMF\/World Bank actions. Listed below are some of the anarchist activities that we know about. If you are from outside D.C. and like to get involved, or if you have questions, please send an email to dc@lists.tao.ca. We recommend that you check out the official A16 Mobilization website \r\n\r\nIf you or your anarchist group\/organization supports the April 16 Mobilization, please sign on to the official A16 endorsement and\/or the anarchist call to action. \r\n\r\nJUST ADDED! Increased unity is one of the signs of the change in tide - endorsing the RA-CB call \r\n\r\nNEWS| PICTURES | LEGAL | THANKS AND KUDOS\r\n\r\nEVENTS\r\n\r\nBlack Bloc March\r\n\r\nThere will be at least two anarchist\/anti-capitalist black bloc marches. One on each morning of April 16 and 17, 2000. \r\n\r\nSunday, April 16th, 2000\r\nWashington, DC\r\n6 AM @ Rock Creek Park \r\n26th street between M st. and Penn. Ave.\r\n\r\nWe will be marching in our own bloc, but we will be part of the larger direct action march. The marching band will be part of this too. \r\n\r\nMaps will be provided next week for out of town folks. \r\n\r\nPlease bring puppets, banners, flags, drums, kazoos and supplies. \r\n\r\nMasking up is recommended. We don't want to help the police out who will be videotaping and photographing the actions for future use. \r\n\r\nWe will probably repeat this on Monday morning, but plans may change. \r\n\r\nConvergence\r\n\r\nPlease keep in mind that there are other official A16 events and meetings taking place during this time, mostly at the Convergence Center. Most of these things are anarchisitic, so you all are encouraged to attend them. I believe there will be nightly Convergence meetings, which affinity groups can send delegates too. THESE ARE THE MEETINGS WHERE THE DIRECT ACTION ON A16 AND A17 WILL BE PLANNED! If the specifics on A16 have seemed rather vague, it's because the planning of the direct action has been put off until the week before the event, so out of towners can be involved. \r\n\r\nAlso, there will be puppetmaking at the Convergence space that week. \r\n\r\nAnarchist Marching Band \/ Chaos Marching Band\r\n\r\nSunday, April 16 and Monday, April 17 \/ Location and time TBA \r\n\r\nYes, there will be an anarchist marching band at A16! We plan to have a marching band just like the one they had in Seattle, only much bigger. The band will probably march with the Black Bloc. If you want to participate, bring musical instruments (not valuable ones) such as horns, drums, plastic buckets, and kazoos. There will be an anarchist flag corps and people with banners. For more information, or to let us know you want to be involved, please contact Dave at duffy@dojo.tao.ca \r\n\r\nAnarchist Soccer League Match\r\n\r\n\r\nThe Anarchist Soccer League - DC will be hosting a huge soccer match on Saturday, April 15th, at Fort Reno Park (near the TENLEYTOWN Metro station). Time will be announced. The ASL welcomes all anti-authoritarian soccer players to join us for an afternoon of fun. There will also be some spontaneous ASL matches on the streets of D.C. during the IMF\/WB actions. Just keep an eye out for the bouncing soccer balls! \r\n\r\nThere will be a massive street soccer game throughout the actions around the World Bank\/IMF buildings. \r\n\r\nA16 Guerilla Gardening\r\n\r\nOn the week of April 8-16 people will be flooding D.C. to shut down the meetings of the IMF and World Bank. The meetings will be shut down. And just as important, in the energy of the streets a new vision will be formulated. Alternatives will be explored... \r\n\r\nRevolutionary gardeners from around the world will liberate greenspaces in central D.C. by transforming them into organic free community gardens. Eliminating our dependance on international agribusiness and the global financial institutions which control our food supply us the first step towards freedom. Bring your gardening tools, saplings, sprouted vegetables and all your friends as we free the greenspace and build the new society within the shell of the old. \r\n\r\nfor more info or to be an affinity group contact person write to: a16gg@mailcity.com \r\n\r\nA note of explanation to fellow anarchists on the strategic value of guerilla gardening in D.C. If Anarchism in the United States is to make the transition from a Revolutionary embryo to a mass movement, it must move beyond rhetoric and purely destructive action and present viable empowering alternatives to corporate Amerika that can appeal to working people with families. We must be creative enough that they cannot credibly label us as terrorists, and militant enough that they cannot ignore us. Guerilla gardening does both these things. Reclaim the Streets, the radical anti-road movement in England is organizing guerilla gardening all over London for the May 1 Action. We have to shatter the spectrum of choice defined by the corporate media--Coke\/Pepsi, Republican\/Democrat, police state\/chaos--and show that empowered communities and localized organic food production are real and achievable options, but it's going to take a tremondous act of will to get there. See you in the streets- \r\n\r\nConcerts and Other Events\r\n\r\nHere are 4 events we have planned for the week of April 8-A17: directions to the events at bottom. all events either at WILSON CENTER or LA CASA, both are in the Mt Pleasant neighborhood of DC. \r\n\r\nApril 8\r\nPunk Show\r\nat the Wilson Center- 15 and Irving Streets NW, DC\r\n$5 all ages 6PM\r\nDiscount (FL, 3rd to last show ever)\r\nRiver City High (VA)\r\nNo Lie Relaxer (DC)\r\nThe Insurgent (political punk from NY)\r\n\r\nTuesday, April 11th, 8pm\r\nA talk by Northern California Earth First Activist Alicia Littletree\r\n$3-$5 donation to benefit the speaking tour\r\nPresented by Positive Force DC 703-276-9768\r\n@ La Casa\r\n3166 Mount Pleasant Street \r\nNW Washington DC\r\n\r\nAlicia Littletree is a Northern California Earth First! organizer who worked closely with Judi Bari in the front-line sstuggle to defend the ancient redwoods. The two were political comrades and close friends, and Alicia learned the ins and outs of the bombing case accompanying Judi to court dates and speaking events, and working with Judi on the case itself. Since Judi Bari's death from breast cancer in 1997, Alicia Littletree, Darryl Cherney, and others from the Redwood Summer Justice Project have continued to pursue the civil rights lawsuit against the FBI, and the only real investigation of the still unsolved bombing. Littletree will talk about the link between corporate timber and the FBI in framing Judi Bari and Darrl Cherney for the bombing, as well as the recent escalation in the use of force against enviromental activists across the country. please forward to all apllicable lists. Metro directions to the event: take the greenline to Columbia Heights stop. walk up Irving Street and cross 16th Street, walk down to Mount Pleasant Street (make right) La Casa is on the left about a block down. \r\n\r\nApril 15\r\nA16 Party\/Concert @ The Wilson Center 7pm\r\n$5 all ages\r\nwith political\/topical folk singers:David Rovics (Boston) and Jim Page (Seattle) \r\nplus a punk band or 2 \r\n\r\nApril 17\r\nat La Casa 7pm\r\nfood not bombs canned food benefit\r\n$5 or $4 w\/ 2 cans of food ALL AGES\r\nOperation Cliff Clavin (reunion tour, last chance too see. awesome political poppy punk band from Indiana)\r\nCrispus Attucks (DC)\r\nThis Bike is a Pipe Bomb (FL, acoustic punk)\r\nplus punk folk\/acoustic singer David Durrando\r\n\r\nAll events end around 11pm so you can ride subway home\r\nAll events are DIY and volunteer run. \r\n**no one turned away for lack of funds** \r\n\r\ninfo:\r\nMetro directions:\r\nThe Wilson Center\r\ntake green line to Columbia Heights stop\r\nthe stop is at 14 and Irving\r\nwalk UP one block to 15 and Irving\r\nThe center will be on your left\r\n\r\nLa Casa (about 2 blocks from Wilson Center)\r\ntake the greenline to Columbia Heights stop. \r\nwalk up Irivng Street and cross 16th Street, walk down to Mount Pleasant \r\nStreet (make right) La Casa is on the left about a block down. \r\n\r\nwrite for directions by car or walking--- SWEAZL@AOL.COM \r\n\r\nthanks.\r\npeace,\r\nWade \r\n\r\nCopWatch\r\n\r\nWe are asking that activists bring cameras and recording equipment to the actions, not just to document them for the alternative media, but to help us monitor police conduct. If you decided to do Cop Watch during the actions, be advised that in certain circumstances it is useful to take pictures of the cops before they try and do something. If you can get close up pictures of uniformed or undercover cops, please take them, because we'll post them online at a public cop database website. \r\n\r\nLOGISTICS\r\n\r\nHousing\r\n\r\nThe housing situation for the weekend of A16 will be really tight. If you have friends or family in the Washington, DC area, we encourage you to contact them first. If you need crash space, please use the housing form at the main A16 website. There are campgrounds located nearby. If you are a Wobbly coming to A16, the D.C. Wobs are arranging housing for fellow Wobs. You can contact them at \r\n\r\nFood\r\n\r\nMore details later. Please bring your own supply of liquids for the days of action. \r\n\r\nShitwork\r\n\r\nWe strongly encourage out of town anarchists to pitch in and help out with shitwork that needs to be done during the weekend of the action. These tasks range from cooking to child care to media work to poster making. If you come to Washington, we expect you to help out. This is not a weekend for standing around and comparing patches. \r\n\r\nA16 Anarchist and Anti-Capitalist Activities\r\n\r\nMassive Rally and Non-Violent Protest at the IMF & World Bank in Washington DC Sun-Mon April 16-17, 2000 \r\n\r\nUpdated: April 22, 2000\r\n\r\nThousands of anarchists are coming to Washington, DC for the April 16 weekend of anti-IMF\/World Bank actions. Listed below are some of the anarchist activities that we know about. If you are from outside D.C. and like to get involved, or if you have questions, please send an email to dc@lists.tao.ca. We recommend that you check out the official A16 Mobilization website \r\n\r\nIf you or your anarchist group\/organization supports the April 16 Mobilization, please sign on to the official A16 endorsement and\/or the anarchist call to action. \r\n\r\nJUST ADDED! Increased unity is one of the signs of the change in tide - endorsing the RA-CB call \r\n\r\nNEWS| PICTURES | LEGAL | THANKS AND KUDOS\r\n\r\nEVENTS\r\n\r\nBlack Bloc March\r\n\r\nThere will be at least two anarchist\/anti-capitalist black bloc marches. One on each morning of April 16 and 17, 2000. \r\n\r\nSunday, April 16th, 2000\r\nWashington, DC\r\n6 AM @ Rock Creek Park \r\n26th street between M st. and Penn. Ave.\r\n\r\nWe will be marching in our own bloc, but we will be part of the larger direct action march. The marching band will be part of this too. \r\n\r\nMaps will be provided next week for out of town folks. \r\n\r\nPlease bring puppets, banners, flags, drums, kazoos and supplies. \r\n\r\nMasking up is recommended. We don't want to help the police out who will be videotaping and photographing the actions for future use. \r\n\r\nWe will probably repeat this on Monday morning, but plans may change. \r\n\r\nConvergence\r\n\r\nPlease keep in mind that there are other official A16 events and meetings taking place during this time, mostly at the Convergence Center. Most of these things are anarchisitic, so you all are encouraged to attend them. I believe there will be nightly Convergence meetings, which affinity groups can send delegates too. THESE ARE THE MEETINGS WHERE THE DIRECT ACTION ON A16 AND A17 WILL BE PLANNED! If the specifics on A16 have seemed rather vague, it's because the planning of the direct action has been put off until the week before the event, so out of towners can be involved. \r\n\r\nAlso, there will be puppetmaking at the Convergence space that week. \r\n\r\nAnarchist Marching Band \/ Chaos Marching Band\r\n\r\nSunday, April 16 and Monday, April 17 \/ Location and time TBA \r\n\r\nYes, there will be an anarchist marching band at A16! We plan to have a marching band just like the one they had in Seattle, only much bigger. The band will probably march with the Black Bloc. If you want to participate, bring musical instruments (not valuable ones) such as horns, drums, plastic buckets, and kazoos. There will be an anarchist flag corps and people with banners. For more information, or to let us know you want to be involved, please contact Dave at duffy@dojo.tao.ca \r\n\r\nAnarchist Soccer League Match\r\n\r\n\r\nThe Anarchist Soccer League - DC will be hosting a huge soccer match on Saturday, April 15th, at Fort Reno Park (near the TENLEYTOWN Metro station). Time will be announced. The ASL welcomes all anti-authoritarian soccer players to join us for an afternoon of fun. There will also be some spontaneous ASL matches on the streets of D.C. during the IMF\/WB actions. Just keep an eye out for the bouncing soccer balls! \r\n\r\nThere will be a massive street soccer game throughout the actions around the World Bank\/IMF buildings. \r\n\r\nA16 Guerilla Gardening\r\n\r\nOn the week of April 8-16 people will be flooding D.C. to shut down the meetings of the IMF and World Bank. The meetings will be shut down. And just as important, in the energy of the streets a new vision will be formulated. Alternatives will be explored... \r\n\r\nRevolutionary gardeners from around the world will liberate greenspaces in central D.C. by transforming them into organic free community gardens. Eliminating our dependance on international agribusiness and the global financial institutions which control our food supply us the first step towards freedom. Bring your gardening tools, saplings, sprouted vegetables and all your friends as we free the greenspace and build the new society within the shell of the old. \r\n\r\nfor more info or to be an affinity group contact person write to: a16gg@mailcity.com \r\n\r\nA note of explanation to fellow anarchists on the strategic value of guerilla gardening in D.C. If Anarchism in the United States is to make the transition from a Revolutionary embryo to a mass movement, it must move beyond rhetoric and purely destructive action and present viable empowering alternatives to corporate Amerika that can appeal to working people with families. We must be creative enough that they cannot credibly label us as terrorists, and militant enough that they cannot ignore us. Guerilla gardening does both these things. Reclaim the Streets, the radical anti-road movement in England is organizing guerilla gardening all over London for the May 1 Action. We have to shatter the spectrum of choice defined by the corporate media--Coke\/Pepsi, Republican\/Democrat, police state\/chaos--and show that empowered communities and localized organic food production are real and achievable options, but it's going to take a tremondous act of will to get there. See you in the streets- \r\n\r\nConcerts and Other Events\r\n\r\nHere are 4 events we have planned for the week of April 8-A17: directions to the events at bottom. all events either at WILSON CENTER or LA CASA, both are in the Mt Pleasant neighborhood of DC. \r\n\r\nApril 8\r\nPunk Show\r\nat the Wilson Center- 15 and Irving Streets NW, DC\r\n$5 all ages 6PM\r\nDiscount (FL, 3rd to last show ever)\r\nRiver City High (VA)\r\nNo Lie Relaxer (DC)\r\nThe Insurgent (political punk from NY)\r\n\r\nTuesday, April 11th, 8pm\r\nA talk by Northern California Earth First Activist Alicia Littletree\r\n$3-$5 donation to benefit the speaking tour\r\nPresented by Positive Force DC 703-276-9768\r\n@ La Casa\r\n3166 Mount Pleasant Street \r\nNW Washington DC\r\n\r\nAlicia Littletree is a Northern California Earth First! organizer who worked closely with Judi Bari in the front-line sstuggle to defend the ancient redwoods. The two were political comrades and close friends, and Alicia learned the ins and outs of the bombing case accompanying Judi to court dates and speaking events, and working with Judi on the case itself. Since Judi Bari's death from breast cancer in 1997, Alicia Littletree, Darryl Cherney, and others from the Redwood Summer Justice Project have continued to pursue the civil rights lawsuit against the FBI, and the only real investigation of the still unsolved bombing. Littletree will talk about the link between corporate timber and the FBI in framing Judi Bari and Darrl Cherney for the bombing, as well as the recent escalation in the use of force against enviromental activists across the country. please forward to all apllicable lists. Metro directions to the event: take the greenline to Columbia Heights stop. walk up Irving Street and cross 16th Street, walk down to Mount Pleasant Street (make right) La Casa is on the left about a block down. \r\n\r\nApril 15\r\nA16 Party\/Concert @ The Wilson Center 7pm\r\n$5 all ages\r\nwith political\/topical folk singers:David Rovics (Boston) and Jim Page (Seattle) \r\nplus a punk band or 2 \r\n\r\nApril 17\r\nat La Casa 7pm\r\nfood not bombs canned food benefit\r\n$5 or $4 w\/ 2 cans of food ALL AGES\r\nOperation Cliff Clavin (reunion tour, last chance too see. awesome political poppy punk band from Indiana)\r\nCrispus Attucks (DC)\r\nThis Bike is a Pipe Bomb (FL, acoustic punk)\r\nplus punk folk\/acoustic singer David Durrando\r\n\r\nAll events end around 11pm so you can ride subway home\r\nAll events are DIY and volunteer run. \r\n**no one turned away for lack of funds** \r\n\r\ninfo:\r\nMetro directions:\r\nThe Wilson Center\r\ntake green line to Columbia Heights stop\r\nthe stop is at 14 and Irving\r\nwalk UP one block to 15 and Irving\r\nThe center will be on your left\r\n\r\nLa Casa (about 2 blocks from Wilson Center)\r\ntake the greenline to Columbia Heights stop. \r\nwalk up Irivng Street and cross 16th Street, walk down to Mount Pleasant \r\nStreet (make right) La Casa is on the left about a block down. \r\n\r\nwrite for directions by car or walking--- SWEAZL@AOL.COM \r\n\r\nthanks.\r\npeace,\r\nWade \r\n\r\nCopWatch\r\n\r\nWe are asking that activists bring cameras and recording equipment to the actions, not just to document them for the alternative media, but to help us monitor police conduct. If you decided to do Cop Watch during the actions, be advised that in certain circumstances it is useful to take pictures of the cops before they try and do something. If you can get close up pictures of uniformed or undercover cops, please take them, because we'll post them online at a public cop database website. \r\n\r\nLOGISTICS\r\n\r\nHousing\r\n\r\nThe housing situation for the weekend of A16 will be really tight. If you have friends or family in the Washington, DC area, we encourage you to contact them first. If you need crash space, please use the housing form at the main A16 website. There are campgrounds located nearby. If you are a Wobbly coming to A16, the D.C. Wobs are arranging housing for fellow Wobs. You can contact them at \r\n\r\nFood\r\n\r\nMore details later. Please bring your own supply of liquids for the days of action. \r\n\r\nShitwork\r\n\r\nWe strongly encourage out of town anarchists to pitch in and help out with shitwork that needs to be done during the weekend of the action. These tasks range from cooking to child care to media work to poster making. If you come to Washington, we expect you to help out. This is not a weekend for standing around and comparing patches. \r\n\r\nA16 Anarchist and Anti-Capitalist Activities\r\n\r\nMassive Rally and Non-Violent Protest at the IMF & World Bank in Washington DC Sun-Mon April 16-17, 2000 \r\n\r\nUpdated: April 22, 2000\r\n\r\nThousands of anarchists are coming to Washington, DC for the April 16 weekend of anti-IMF\/World Bank actions. Listed below are some of the anarchist activities that we know about. If you are from outside D.C. and like to get involved, or if you have questions, please send an email to dc@lists.tao.ca. We recommend that you check out the official A16 Mobilization website \r\n\r\nIf you or your anarchist group\/organization supports the April 16 Mobilization, please sign on to the official A16 endorsement and\/or the anarchist call to action. \r\n\r\nJUST ADDED! Increased unity is one of the signs of the change in tide - endorsing the RA-CB call \r\n\r\nNEWS| PICTURES | LEGAL | THANKS AND KUDOS\r\n\r\nEVENTS\r\n\r\nBlack Bloc March\r\n\r\nThere will be at least two anarchist\/anti-capitalist black bloc marches. One on each morning of April 16 and 17, 2000. \r\n\r\nSunday, April 16th, 2000\r\nWashington, DC\r\n6 AM @ Rock Creek Park \r\n26th street between M st. and Penn. Ave.\r\n\r\nWe will be marching in our own bloc, but we will be part of the larger direct action march. The marching band will be part of this too. \r\n\r\nMaps will be provided next week for out of town folks. \r\n\r\nPlease bring puppets, banners, flags, drums, kazoos and supplies. \r\n\r\nMasking up is recommended. We don't want to help the police out who will be videotaping and photographing the actions for future use. \r\n\r\nWe will probably repeat this on Monday morning, but plans may change. \r\n\r\nConvergence\r\n\r\nPlease keep in mind that there are other official A16 events and meetings taking place during this time, mostly at the Convergence Center. Most of these things are anarchisitic, so you all are encouraged to attend them. I believe there will be nightly Convergence meetings, which affinity groups can send delegates too. THESE ARE THE MEETINGS WHERE THE DIRECT ACTION ON A16 AND A17 WILL BE PLANNED! If the specifics on A16 have seemed rather vague, it's because the planning of the direct action has been put off until the week before the event, so out of towners can be involved. \r\n\r\nAlso, there will be puppetmaking at the Convergence space that week. \r\n\r\nAnarchist Marching Band \/ Chaos Marching Band\r\n\r\nSunday, April 16 and Monday, April 17 \/ Location and time TBA \r\n\r\nYes, there will be an anarchist marching band at A16! We plan to have a marching band just like the one they had in Seattle, only much bigger. The band will probably march with the Black Bloc. If you want to participate, bring musical instruments (not valuable ones) such as horns, drums, plastic buckets, and kazoos. There will be an anarchist flag corps and people with banners. For more information, or to let us know you want to be involved, please contact Dave at duffy@dojo.tao.ca \r\n\r\nAnarchist Soccer League Match\r\n\r\n\r\nThe Anarchist Soccer League - DC will be hosting a huge soccer match on Saturday, April 15th, at Fort Reno Park (near the TENLEYTOWN Metro station). Time will be announced. The ASL welcomes all anti-authoritarian soccer players to join us for an afternoon of fun. There will also be some spontaneous ASL matches on the streets of D.C. during the IMF\/WB actions. Just keep an eye out for the bouncing soccer balls! \r\n\r\nThere will be a massive street soccer game throughout the actions around the World Bank\/IMF buildings. \r\n\r\nA16 Guerilla Gardening\r\n\r\nOn the week of April 8-16 people will be flooding D.C. to shut down the meetings of the IMF and World Bank. The meetings will be shut down. And just as important, in the energy of the streets a new vision will be formulated. Alternatives will be explored... \r\n\r\nRevolutionary gardeners from around the world will liberate greenspaces in central D.C. by transforming them into organic free community gardens. Eliminating our dependance on international agribusiness and the global financial institutions which control our food supply us the first step towards freedom. Bring your gardening tools, saplings, sprouted vegetables and all your friends as we free the greenspace and build the new society within the shell of the old. \r\n\r\nfor more info or to be an affinity group contact person write to: a16gg@mailcity.com \r\n\r\nA note of explanation to fellow anarchists on the strategic value of guerilla gardening in D.C. If Anarchism in the United States is to make the transition from a Revolutionary embryo to a mass movement, it must move beyond rhetoric and purely destructive action and present viable empowering alternatives to corporate Amerika that can appeal to working people with families. We must be creative enough that they cannot credibly label us as terrorists, and militant enough that they cannot ignore us. Guerilla gardening does both these things. Reclaim the Streets, the radical anti-road movement in England is organizing guerilla gardening all over London for the May 1 Action. We have to shatter the spectrum of choice defined by the corporate media--Coke\/Pepsi, Republican\/Democrat, police state\/chaos--and show that empowered communities and localized organic food production are real and achievable options, but it's going to take a tremondous act of will to get there. See you in the streets- \r\n\r\nConcerts and Other Events\r\n\r\nHere are 4 events we have planned for the week of April 8-A17: directions to the events at bottom. all events either at WILSON CENTER or LA CASA, both are in the Mt Pleasant neighborhood of DC. \r\n\r\nApril 8\r\nPunk Show\r\nat the Wilson Center- 15 and Irving Streets NW, DC\r\n$5 all ages 6PM\r\nDiscount (FL, 3rd to last show ever)\r\nRiver City High (VA)\r\nNo Lie Relaxer (DC)\r\nThe Insurgent (political punk from NY)\r\n\r\nTuesday, April 11th, 8pm\r\nA talk by Northern California Earth First Activist Alicia Littletree\r\n$3-$5 donation to benefit the speaking tour\r\nPresented by Positive Force DC 703-276-9768\r\n@ La Casa\r\n3166 Mount Pleasant Street \r\nNW Washington DC\r\n\r\nAlicia Littletree is a Northern California Earth First! organizer who worked closely with Judi Bari in the front-line sstuggle to defend the ancient redwoods. The two were political comrades and close friends, and Alicia learned the ins and outs of the bombing case accompanying Judi to court dates and speaking events, and working with Judi on the case itself. Since Judi Bari's death from breast cancer in 1997, Alicia Littletree, Darryl Cherney, and others from the Redwood Summer Justice Project have continued to pursue the civil rights lawsuit against the FBI, and the only real investigation of the still unsolved bombing. Littletree will talk about the link between corporate timber and the FBI in framing Judi Bari and Darrl Cherney for the bombing, as well as the recent escalation in the use of force against enviromental activists across the country. please forward to all apllicable lists. Metro directions to the event: take the greenline to Columbia Heights stop. walk up Irving Street and cross 16th Street, walk down to Mount Pleasant Street (make right) La Casa is on the left about a block down. \r\n\r\nApril 15\r\nA16 Party\/Concert @ The Wilson Center 7pm\r\n$5 all ages\r\nwith political\/topical folk singers:David Rovics (Boston) and Jim Page (Seattle) \r\nplus a punk band or 2 \r\n\r\nApril 17\r\nat La Casa 7pm\r\nfood not bombs canned food benefit\r\n$5 or $4 w\/ 2 cans of food ALL AGES\r\nOperation Cliff Clavin (reunion tour, last chance too see. awesome political poppy punk band from Indiana)\r\nCrispus Attucks (DC)\r\nThis Bike is a Pipe Bomb (FL, acoustic punk)\r\nplus punk folk\/acoustic singer David Durrando\r\n\r\nAll events end around 11pm so you can ride subway home\r\nAll events are DIY and volunteer run. \r\n**no one turned away for lack of funds** \r\n\r\ninfo:\r\nMetro directions:\r\nThe Wilson Center\r\ntake green line to Columbia Heights stop\r\nthe stop is at 14 and Irving\r\nwalk UP one block to 15 and Irving\r\nThe center will be on your left\r\n\r\nLa Casa (about 2 blocks from Wilson Center)\r\ntake the greenline to Columbia Heights stop. \r\nwalk up Irivng Street and cross 16th Street, walk down to Mount Pleasant \r\nStreet (make right) La Casa is on the left about a block down. \r\n\r\nwrite for directions by car or walking--- SWEAZL@AOL.COM \r\n\r\nthanks.\r\npeace,\r\nWade \r\n\r\nCopWatch\r\n\r\nWe are asking that activists bring cameras and recording equipment to the actions, not just to document them for the alternative media, but to help us monitor police conduct. If you decided to do Cop Watch during the actions, be advised that in certain circumstances it is useful to take pictures of the cops before they try and do something. If you can get close up pictures of uniformed or undercover cops, please take them, because we'll post them online at a public cop database website. \r\n\r\nLOGISTICS\r\n\r\nHousing\r\n\r\nThe housing situation for the weekend of A16 will be really tight. If you have friends or family in the Washington, DC area, we encourage you to contact them first. If you need crash space, please use the housing form at the main A16 website. There are campgrounds located nearby. If you are a Wobbly coming to A16, the D.C. Wobs are arranging housing for fellow Wobs. You can contact them at \r\n\r\nFood\r\n\r\nMore details later. Please bring your own supply of liquids for the days of action. \r\n\r\nShitwork\r\n\r\nWe strongly encourage out of town anarchists to pitch in and help out with shitwork that needs to be done during the weekend of the action. These tasks range from cooking to child care to media work to poster making. If you come to Washington, we expect you to help out. This is not a weekend for standing around and comparing patches. \r\n\r\n","author":"anarchist","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2003-07-03 07:51:27","modified":"2005-08-15 01:32:18","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/07\/mnblkjhb.jpg3j2q2h.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/07\/mnblkjhb.jpg3j2q2h.jpg"}},{"id":69159,"heading":"O-mar has only 1 point now","article":">>"See I admit I am a little lazy; I admit it. I am simply not bothered to doll out the history of the second world war when the point of discussion is something else....You have a knack for clinging onto useless information that has nothing to do with the argument AT THE TIME and in doing so U change the subject. "<<\r\n\r\nYou're partly right about the diagnosis of your denial problem but as usual are trying to obfuscate by searching for fictitious causes. \r\nYou see, I don't mean it personally, but there's no way else to tell you this. Most serious folks who know WWII and the Holocaust don't even see fit to try reasoning with someone like you. Your pitiful attempts to get away with the unfounded nonsense you spout about the topic at hand are way too transparent to go unnoticed. \r\n\r\n >>"The line that most amuses me is "There are numerous unmarked mass (and non-mass) graves, ergo their location is unknown throughout Eastern Europe". \r\nThats like saying there is a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow. Well how the fuck are u gonna prove it to me if you dont have data that backs your point and how on God's earth can u put on a number on something that you dont know about. As usual your logic is no logic at all."<<\r\n\r\nWhy don't you go visit Yad Vashem or a Holocaust Museum in the US and look at the pictures. There are photos where Jews stand near the graves they had dug beforehand, while SS soldiers shoot them point blank. The Jews fall into those graves and the SS troops bury the bodies. \r\nFrom what I recall, at least the country where each photo was taken is mentioned or known. Perhaps the exact district or county is known too. In any rate, these graves were never marked. Kapeesh? \r\nHaving said all this, I don't expect you to actually go visit a Holocaust museum because you're afraid of the prospect of proving yourself wrong; this would force you into quitting playing games with yourself.\r\n\r\nIt's common for people like you, who have immense difficulties making logical arguments about a topic they're uncomfortable with, to accuse the other side of making no sense. \r\n\r\nI know you'll come back from 7-11 and smear shit all over my arguments rather than speak to the point.\r\nThat's you.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 09:48:15","modified":"2003-07-03 09:48:15","fileurl":""},{"id":69180,"heading":"fresca fuck off","article":"this is not about whether the holocaust happened or not - this is about the unsubstantiated allegation that 6 million jews were killed in it.\r\n\r\nwhere does that figure come from?\r\n\r\nwhat's the evidence for it?\r\n\r\neither stick to that point or go give sharon another blowjob,jewb...\r\n\r\noooops,I meant "fresca".","author":"fresca fuck off","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 11:58:12","modified":"2003-07-03 11:58:12","fileurl":""},{"id":69191,"heading":"still no proof","article":">>>Auschwitz was setting records near the end of the war in excess of 6,000 a day.<<<\r\n\r\nunsubstantiated allegation.\r\n\r\nTry reading Logic for Dummies.","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:08:47","modified":"2003-07-03 12:08:47","fileurl":""},{"id":69198,"heading":"To "still no proof" et al","article":"Let me ask ya, seriously: \r\nyou've never denied you're ultra-Liberals. Are you? \r\n\r\nQuestion #2: do you like Nazis?","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:21:18","modified":"2003-07-03 12:21:18","fileurl":""},{"id":69211,"heading":"for jewboy = fresca","article":"will you please come up with the evidence for the unsubstantiated allegation yhat some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust?","author":"for jewboy=fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:35:31","modified":"2003-07-03 12:35:31","fileurl":""},{"id":69212,"heading":""still no proof" et al:","article":"I'm still waiting to see the answers the questions I've posed to you. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:38:33","modified":"2003-07-03 12:38:33","fileurl":""},{"id":69214,"heading":"diogenes is wrong","article":">>The fact that the Islamic world flat out hates jews was "not totally unrelated" as well. Again, does this in any way illustrate that hamas is a creation of Israel. No. <<\r\n\r\nthen whay would israel support as kurtzer said an islamic movement that flat out hates jews as you said?\r\n\r\nif not to sabotage the pla and the peace process?\r\n\r\nas further shown by sharon never targeting hamas leader sheikh yassin for assassination.\r\n","author":"diogenes is wrong","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:39:17","modified":"2003-07-03 12:39:17","fileurl":""},{"id":69215,"heading":""still no proof" et al the dog(matics):","article":"" "Jewboy"=fresca "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation.\r\nFor more on logic at your level, try reading "Logic for Dummies" \r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:41:51","modified":"2003-07-03 12:41:51","fileurl":""},{"id":69222,"heading":""still no proof" et al:","article":"Please answer me whether you're ultra-Liberals and like Nazis or I'll have to conclude the answer to both is yes.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:49:23","modified":"2003-07-03 12:49:23","fileurl":""},{"id":69227,"heading":""still no proof" et al","article":"still isn't answering the 2 questions I've asked them. \r\n\r\nCould it be they can't?","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:57:06","modified":"2003-07-03 12:57:06","fileurl":""},{"id":69228,"heading":"It's 7-11 time...","article":"See you tomorrow.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 12:58:41","modified":"2003-07-03 12:58:41","fileurl":""},{"id":69230,"heading":"Gang up","article":"Ok, maybe it was somewhere that I read there were there were 1 million or so non-Jewish victims Gypsies and others. Either way, I was not trying to downplay, the Jewish suffering; instead, I just feel it is important to understand that not all the victims were Jewish and that a holocaust can happen against a minority at any time, if we are not careful.\r\nMy \u201cJewish trick\u201d was my attempt at being an anti-Zionist bastard; however I must admit I am not very good at it.\r\n\r\nAs for Omar and all the other holocaust denials, short of perhaps showing them a picture of 6 million dead people, which will be hard, since most were cremated, or let the read all the \u201cTotenbuch\u201d from each camp which nicely documented most of the murders. Everyone has that kind of first hand information on them right? A near impossible task, if they are not willing to read other works on the subject. Better just to make fun of their military impotence. \r\n\r\nMost Arabs have no concept of a \u201ctrue\u201d genocide or what a holocaust actually entails; hence they refuse to believe it. The look at their own suffering, and say we lost 2,000 people in Lebanon, no way the Jews could lose 6,000,000. Then they cry about the civilian casualties in Iraq, like it is the greatest crime in the world, and yet the whole war in Iraq, had the same death toll as say a \u201cgood\u201d day in WW2. Perhaps we need to give them a demonstration. Let\u2019s add the word \u201cfirestorm\u201d to their vocabulary, Maybe Mecca needs to cease to exist and then maybe they will start to appreciate why the west, could and has conquered the world, but wishes to avoid war, because we have seen its full horror.\r\n\r\nThis sort of reminds me of Hamas, \u201cthere will be no cease-fire, we don\u2019t even have a word for it\u201d Israel launches a few helicopter attacks, starts to kill a lot of their leaders, and oh my god, they want a \u201chunda\u201d it appears they did have a word for it along. \r\n\r\nI mean they blame the US for supporting Israel, yet remain to dumb to understand that the US is also holding Israel back. I wonder do they really think that IDF would have a problem taking out Syria, Jordan, and Egypt, as they have done it before with Sherman tanks. If they ignored the \u201crules of war\u201d as the Arabs are content to do, I would see very little trouble in creating a \u201cgreater Israel that rules the Middle East. Damn Yanks holding back Sharon.\r\n\r\nStill you have to love the Paki\u2019s at least they understand the truth, and they named their capital after it. \u201cIslam Bad\u201d\r\n\r\nDebating for Dummies\r\n\u201cSo and so said so\u201d is a substantiated allegation, try reading the reports first.\r\n","author":"Not Annyomous","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 13:03:28","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:33","fileurl":""},{"id":69232,"heading":"8.41 is wrong","article":"that "jewboy" = "fresca" is indeed arguable:\r\n\r\n1.how many right-wing idiots would be spamming a site like indyla at once?\r\nand out of their own pockets?\r\n\r\nand evry day?\r\n\r\nclearly thi is an ochestrated thing,payed for by the govt,\r\nand these shills are taking turns in shifts on indyla;\r\n\r\nbut that there would be more than 1 at the same time on just 1 indy site is doubtful.\r\n\r\nit's more likely one per shift,self-multiplying its monikers.\r\n\r\nanyway be it one or two what's very likely is that he's a pro mole.","author":"8.41 is wrong","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 13:03:43","modified":"2003-07-03 13:03:43","fileurl":""},{"id":69233,"heading":"We got 'em, now kick them when their down!","article":"Ok, maybe it was somewhere that I read there were there were 1 million or so non-Jewish victims Gypsies and others. Either way, I was not trying to downplay, the Jewish suffering; instead, I just feel it is important to understand that not all the victims were Jewish and that a holocaust can happen against a minority at any time, if we are not careful.\r\nMy \u201cJewish trick\u201d was my attempt at being an anti-Zionist bastard; however I must admit I am not very good at it.\r\n\r\nAs for Omar and all the other holocaust denials, short of perhaps showing them a picture of 6 million dead people, which will be hard, since most were cremated, or let the read all the \u201cTotenbuch\u201d from each camp which nicely documented most of the murders. Everyone has that kind of first hand information on them right? A near impossible task, if they are not willing to read other works on the subject. Better just to make fun of their military impotence. \r\n\r\nMost Arabs have no concept of a \u201ctrue\u201d genocide or what a holocaust actually entails; hence they refuse to believe it. The look at their own suffering, and say we lost 2,000 people in Lebanon, no way the Jews could lose 6,000,000. Then they cry about the civilian casualties in Iraq, like it is the greatest crime in the world, and yet the whole war in Iraq, had the same death toll as say a \u201cgood\u201d day in WW2. Perhaps we need to give them a demonstration. Let\u2019s add the word \u201cfirestorm\u201d to their vocabulary, Maybe Mecca needs to cease to exist and then maybe they will start to appreciate why the west, could and has conquered the world, but wishes to avoid war, because we have seen its full horror.\r\n\r\nThis sort of reminds me of Hamas, \u201cthere will be no cease-fire, we don\u2019t even have a word for it\u201d Israel launches a few helicopter attacks, starts to kill a lot of their leaders, and oh my god, they want a \u201chunda\u201d it appears they did have a word for it along. \r\n\r\nI mean they blame the US for supporting Israel, yet remain to dumb to understand that the US is also holding Israel back. I wonder do they really think that IDF would have a problem taking out Syria, Jordan, and Egypt, as they have done it before with Sherman tanks. If they ignored the \u201crules of war\u201d as the Arabs are content to do, I would see very little trouble in creating a \u201cgreater Israel that rules the Middle East. Damn Yanks holding back Sharon.\r\n\r\nStill you have to love the Paki\u2019s at least they understand the truth, and they named their capital after it. \u201cIslam Bad\u201d\r\n\r\nDebating for Dummies\r\n\u201cSo and so said so\u201d is a substantiated allegation, try reading the reports first.\r\n","author":"Not Annyomous","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 13:04:14","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:33","fileurl":""},{"id":69238,"heading":"9.03 whatcha talkin'about?","article":">>read all the \u201cTotenbuch\u201d from each camp which nicely documented most of the murders<<:\r\n\r\nwhat are they and most of all:\r\nwhere are they?\r\n\r\nas it is,yours is just another unsubstantiated allegation.\r\n\r\ntry reading LOgic for Dummies.","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 13:08:29","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:33","fileurl":""},{"id":69282,"heading":"fresca","article":"I suspect that YOU are here to discredit the right.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 14:04:18","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":69317,"heading":"so much pain...","article":"im back from my 7-11 shift to tear u punks and bitches up. :D f\r\n\r\nfresca U little ho ;) wassup bitch... you little slut. I see your out to just annoy people. Maybe u need to get bummed again while screaming Palestine at the top of ur lungs again little gay boy for hire. \r\n\r\nHolocaust deniers??? who is denying the holocaust little gay boy? just because we have a problem with the numbers little cock sucker. WHo is to say that 1.5 million is a holocaust and 6 million isnt. Stop trying to prove ur fucking childish points u little shit and get ur ass back to work; yeah u got it.. go work the curb.\r\n\r\nnow for "Not anyonymous"\r\n\r\n"My \u201cJewish trick\u201d was my attempt at being an anti-Zionist bastard"\r\n\r\nyou only got the bastard part right. try harder at the anti-zionist\r\n\r\n"As for Omar and all the other holocaust denials"\r\n\r\nwhere did I deny the holocaust? Cant U motherfuckers read?\r\n\r\n"short of perhaps showing them a picture of 6 million dead people, which will be hard, since most were cremated"\r\n\r\nmost were cremated and every time an effort was made to make sure that not even the bones would remain. poof!!! just like that everything disappears.Do u know how stupid u sound. I think the idea behind the holocaust was to kill people not make them disappear. Why would they do that? not to leave a trace :P \r\n\r\n"Most Arabs have no concept of a \u201ctrue\u201d genocide or what a holocaust actually entails; hence they refuse to believe it"\r\n\r\nThats cuz darling our people our not half as cold blooded killers as u are. It was the people of the Western Europe your ancestors and ur major allies ancestors who carried out this brutality.\r\n\r\n"Then they cry about the civilian casualties in Iraq, like it is the greatest crime in the world, and yet the whole war in Iraq, had the same death toll as say a \u201cgood\u201d day in WW2"\r\n\r\nI cannot believe this is a point for this jackass. Do u know how immoral and stupid u sound. Even one innocent death is too much. \r\n\r\n"Maybe Mecca needs to cease to exist and then maybe they will start to appreciate why the west, could and has conquered the world, but wishes to avoid war, because we have seen its full horror. "\r\n\r\nThis is a good one. The west is holding back because of the horrors of war :D Do u know how many conflicts this country has been involved in just in the previous century. and Which West? The one that was standing against u in the war against Iraq. Not everybody likes killing innocent people. \r\n\r\n"This sort of reminds me of Hamas, \u201cthere will be no cease-fire, we don\u2019t even have a word for it\u201d Israel launches a few helicopter attacks, starts to kill a lot of their leaders, and oh my god, they want a \u201chunda\u201d it appears they did have a word for it along. "\r\n\r\nis that what happened? where do u read the news? in the comic strips?\r\n\r\n"I mean they blame the US for supporting Israel, yet remain to dumb to understand that the US is also holding Israel back"\r\n\r\njust barely and lets add the US government is barely holding back Israel. \r\n\r\n" If they ignored the \u201crules of war\u201d as the Arabs are content to do, I would see very little trouble in creating a \u201cgreater Israel that rules the Middle East. Damn Yanks holding back Sharon. " \r\n\r\nMotherfucker ur not living in peace in what u have right now and your gonna take over us :D dont forget u little bitch that without the support of just turkey so many problems were created with the invasion. You think if we all joined together you could conquer us? Oh U and the West right? I got news for u little boy. In this game ur on ur own ;) \r\n\r\n"Still you have to love the Paki\u2019s at least they understand the truth, and they named their capital after it. \u201cIslam Bad"\r\n\r\nthe name is Islamabad not islam bad :D u illiterate idiot. cant u read? thats like saying "Not Anonymous " is "no anus" :D bakc to what u were doing child. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Omar","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 15:14:36","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:33","fileurl":""},{"id":69318,"heading":"frescassmole","article":">>you paranoid fool.<<:\r\n\r\nunsubstantiated allegation.\r\n\r\ntry reading Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n\r\nby the way:\r\n\r\nwe're still waitin' for your evidence for the 6-million lie.","author":"frescassmole","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 15:16:44","modified":"2003-07-03 15:16:44","fileurl":""},{"id":69322,"heading":"fresca's evidence","article":"here's your evidence\r\nby fresca \u2022 Wednesday July 02, 2003 08:45 AM\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust because Fox News said so.\r\n\r\n","author":"here it is","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 15:23:00","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:33","fileurl":""},{"id":69343,"heading":"shrinking toll","article":">>To try and erase the murder of 4.5 million Jews is a denial. >>>\r\n\r\nso now the unsubstantiated allegation that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust has become the unsubstantiated allegation that 4.5 million jews were killed in the holocaust...\r\n\r\none thing both fancy figures have in common:\r\na total lack of supporting evidence.\r\n\r\ntime to come up with it,jewb...ooooops,I meant "fresca".\r\n","author":"shrinking toll","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 15:58:56","modified":"2003-07-03 15:58:56","fileurl":""},{"id":69345,"heading":"Well actually","article":""so now the unsubstantiated allegation that some 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust has become the unsubstantiated allegation that 4.5 million jews were killed in the holocaust... "\r\n\r\nLet me help you with a little abstract thought and math tutoring.\r\n\r\nSix Million Jews died in The Holocaust. Contrary to your lack of acceptence and silly blindness to reams of proof, that is no less a fact than that the earth is round. Wanting proof in the absurd form of names, photos or a paper trail left by the nazis is childish. You know it and I know it. If you're sharp enough to operate a computer, you should be able to understand this.\r\n\r\nNow, here's where you're going to have to stretch yourself a bit. When omar and his racist ilk claim that 1.5 million Jews died he is denying the murder of the other 4.5 million. \r\n\r\n6-1.5 = 4.5\r\n\r\nSee. Not so hard is it?\r\n\r\nTry it yourself next time.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 16:12:29","modified":"2003-07-03 16:12:29","fileurl":""},{"id":69347,"heading":"still waitn' for proof","article":"...that 6 million jews died in the holocaust.\r\n\r\ngot no evidence,fresca?\r\n\r\nholocaust denier maybe? ","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 16:17:12","modified":"2003-07-03 16:17:12","fileurl":""},{"id":69377,"heading":"Here's your evidence","article":"6 million Jews did in the Holocaust because Fox News said so.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 17:00:37","modified":"2003-07-03 17:00:37","fileurl":""},{"id":69378,"heading":"Here's your evidence","article":"6 million Jews died in the Holocaust because Fox News said so.","author":"fresca","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 17:00:44","modified":"2003-07-03 17:00:44","fileurl":""},{"id":69419,"heading":"be careful","article":"This is dangerous ground.\r\nIf you try to refute or adjust any of these holocaust \r\nnumbers....you will be labeled a nazi.\r\nAny resonable discorse equating the gestapo style \r\ntactics of the israelli government will be treated harshly.\r\nThey will never respond with reason.\r\nThey will slice you down with ad hominem arguments.\r\nThe inflated death toll of the jews was propaganda to\r\nthe world so they could create a "jewish homeland" after WW2.\r\nMost people here have never been to Germany or Poland to see these "concentration camps".\r\nIf you did you will find theat it would have been impossible to murder 6 million.\r\nThe jews that died in "internment camps" similar to the ones like Manzanar in the US, died mostly to hunger, disease and other prisoners violence.\r\nThe toll is actually around 350,000 total.","author":"logic","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-03 20:10:41","modified":"2003-07-03 20:10:41","fileurl":""},{"id":69489,"heading":"Nonsense on "8.41 is wrong"","article":""how many right-wing idiots would be spamming a site like indyla at once? clearly thi is an ochestrated thing,payed for by the govt, and these shills are taking turns in shifts on indyla; "\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations. \r\nFor more on logic at your level, read Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 03:23:49","modified":"2003-07-04 03:23:49","fileurl":""},{"id":69491,"heading":"To "frescassmole"","article":""the 6-million lie."\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations. \r\nFor more on logic at your level, read Logic for Dummies.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 03:36:43","modified":"2003-07-04 03:36:43","fileurl":""},{"id":69493,"heading":"Jesus!","article":""frescassmole" tried impersonating "debate coach"! \r\n\r\nCould it be he and "debate coach" are one and the same?!\r\n\r\nI've also noticed how "debate coach" has been relaxing his rigid posting format lately. \r\nCould it be he's becoming more human?? \r\n","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 03:42:58","modified":"2003-07-04 03:42:58","fileurl":""},{"id":69494,"heading":"To "logic"","article":"No wonder arguments from you and your ilk are usually responded to with ad-hominem attacks and get torn down. \r\nYou don't have a green idea what you're talking about. Actually, you're awashed with propaganda though you're unware of it. Your statement about the Gestapo methods of the Israelis symbolizes it all.\r\n\r\nBefore pointing your finger at others you must make sure you have all your facts right. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 04:03:51","modified":"2003-07-04 04:03:51","fileurl":""},{"id":69500,"heading":"To "Not Annyomous"","article":"<<" I just feel it is important to understand that not all the victims were Jewish and that a holocaust can happen against a minority at any time, if we are not careful. "<<\r\n\r\nGranted, most of the victims in WWII weren't Jewish. But we must make a very clear distinction: \r\nmost non-Jewish victims were KILLED IN COMBAT while about 6 milion Jews and appr.1\/2 million gypsies were systematically EXTERMINATED for nothing other than being who they were. \r\nThe other millions hadn't been slated for extermination. \r\n\r\nIf you talk non-WWII genocides, we can't forget of course the 1.5-2 million Armenians who were butchered by the Turks starting 1915. Turkey has been fiercely denying this genocide - perpetuated by Muslims against Christians. \r\n\r\n<<"Maybe Mecca needs to cease to exist."<< \r\n\r\nI for one won't shed tears if this ever materializes. The Arabs have already trashed almost all the Jewish relics on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem - I'm talking about dozens of thousands of tons of rubble that have been trucked off from the Mount and dumped elsewhere.\r\n\r\nSo if Mecca, or at least the Ka'aba is obliterated, poetic justice will have been served.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 05:00:19","modified":"2003-07-04 05:00:19","fileurl":""},{"id":69517,"heading":"jewboy is an asshole","article":">>>about 6 milion Jews and appr.1\/2 million gypsies were systematically EXTERMINATED for nothing other than being who they were. >>>:\r\n\r\n\r\nany evidence for your umpteen unsubstantiated statement?\r\n\r\nintellectually dishonest maybe?\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 10:38:03","modified":"2003-07-04 10:38:03","fileurl":""},{"id":69519,"heading":"YAWN,","article":"YAWN, YAWN.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 10:42:16","modified":"2003-07-04 10:42:16","fileurl":""},{"id":69527,"heading":"jewboy:no prroof for the 6 million","article":"from jewboy: no proof for the 6 million.","author":"jewboy:no proof for the 6 million","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 11:08:44","modified":"2003-07-04 11:08:44","fileurl":""},{"id":69531,"heading":""no prroof for the 6 million" is an asshole","article":">>>no prroof for the 6 million<<<\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated statement.\r\nTry reading "Logic for Dummies".","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 11:13:41","modified":"2003-07-04 11:13:41","fileurl":""},{"id":69534,"heading":"Here's the proof:","article":"6 million were murdered because Fox News said so.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 11:16:29","modified":"2003-07-04 11:16:29","fileurl":""},{"id":69539,"heading":"To the Holocaust deniers:","article":"You still haven't answered fresca - he's asked you to prove the Crusades happened.\r\n \r\nProvide now evidence to substantiate the Crusades took place. And don't try your obfuscation tricks on me.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 11:21:48","modified":"2003-07-04 11:21:48","fileurl":""},{"id":69545,"heading":"jewboy:no proof for the 6 million","article":"crewboy:still no proof for your unsubstantiated allegation that 6 million jews died in the holocaust.\r\n\r\nholocaust denier maybe?","author":"screwboy:no proof for the 6 million","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 11:30:32","modified":"2003-07-04 11:30:32","fileurl":""},{"id":69548,"heading":"learn how to debate","article":">>>screwboy:no proof for the 6 million<<< \r\n\r\n2 unsubstantiated allegations.\r\nRead "Logical & Respectful Debating for Dummies".","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 11:40:34","modified":"2003-07-04 11:40:34","fileurl":""},{"id":69550,"heading":"screwboy:still waitin'...","article":"for proof for your unsubstantiated allegation that 6 million jews died in the holocaust.","author":"screwboy:still waitin'...","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:00:35","modified":"2003-07-04 12:00:35","fileurl":""},{"id":69551,"heading":"substantiated allegation","article":"by debate coach \u2022 Wednesday July 02, 2003 11:23 PM\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n>>"how many right-wing idiots would be spamming a site like indyla at once? clearly thi is an ochestrated thing,payed for by the govt, and these shills are taking turns in shifts on indyla; " \r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegations. \r\nFor more on logic at your level, read Logic for Dummies.>>:\r\n\r\nunsubstantiated allegation.\r\n\r\nmoles are argued for.\r\n\r\nyou do not respond. \r\n\r\n","author":"fresca=jewboy=daveman...","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:05:11","modified":"2013-11-11 00:23:34","fileurl":""},{"id":69552,"heading":"A one-sided dialogue?","article":""Jewboy" is still waiting for you Holocaust deniers to provide him with evidence the Crusades took place. \r\n\r\nDo you indend to debate respectfuly and stop labeling him "screwboy"?","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:07:32","modified":"2003-07-04 12:07:32","fileurl":""},{"id":69556,"heading":"screwboy still waitn'","article":"...for your evidence for your unsubstantiated allegation that 6 million jews died in the holocaust.\r\n\r\ncould it be that you have none?","author":"screwboy still waitn'...","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:15:35","modified":"2003-07-04 12:15:35","fileurl":""},{"id":69561,"heading":"Hey Nazis.","article":">>>unsubstantiated allegation that 6 million jews died in the holocaust. <<<\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation..\r\nTry reading "Respectful & Logical Debating for Simpleton Dummies".\r\n","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:25:54","modified":"2003-07-04 12:25:54","fileurl":""},{"id":69564,"heading":"Holocaust deniers,","article":"Provide me *now* with evidence the Crusades took place or I'll have to conclude soon you have none and are immoral and intellectually dishonest.","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:38:09","modified":"2003-07-04 12:38:09","fileurl":""},{"id":69566,"heading":"screwboy still waitn'...","article":"for you to come up with evidence for your unsubstantiated allegation that 6 million jews died in the holocaust.\r\n\r\ncould it be that there is none?\r\n\r\nno matter how much you try to obfuscate,you're nailed.","author":"screwboy still waitin'...","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:43:51","modified":"2003-07-04 12:43:51","fileurl":""},{"id":69572,"heading":"It IS substantiated, morons.","article":""Jewboy" has already told you the evidence is that Fox News said so. Why do you keep ignoring the evidence?!\r\nYou Nazis are the ones insisting on not trusting in the veracity of the proof. That's your problem, not Jewboy's.\r\nTherefore you are definitely intellectually dishonest, immoral and also taking turns spamming Indy 24\/7 with your Nazi shit in an attempt to obfuscate yourselves. And it's working darn excellent. \r\n\r\nYou're also labelling him "screwboy" because you're too stupid to appreciate evidence when it's put forward to you. How typical.\r\n Fuck you.","author":"debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:53:21","modified":"2003-07-04 12:53:21","fileurl":""},{"id":69573,"heading":"Logical Fallacy","article":""Six million Jews were NOT killed during the holocaust"\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated Allegation\r\n\r\nFor more about logic, see:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.intrepidsoftware.com\/fallacy\/toc.htm\r\n\r\nThat 6 million jews died during the holocaust is NOT, repeat, NOT debatable.\r\n\r\nDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD\r\nIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII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REAL debate coach","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:56:47","modified":"2003-07-04 12:56:47","fileurl":""},{"id":69575,"heading":"See you tomorow.","article":"The Holocaust deniers shouldn't forget: now I know they're intellectually dishonest. \r\n\r\nHowever, they had better prove until tomorrow the Crusades happened lest everybody else avoid debating with them altogether. ","author":""Jewboy"","parent_id":63688,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-07-04 12:58:49","modified":"2003-07-04 12:58:49","fileurl":""},{"id":69586,"heading":"no proof for the 6 million","article":"<