{"article":{"id":56733,"heading":"The Patriot Act and Persecution of Sherman Austin (LA Weekly article)","author":"x","created":"2003-05-09 20:33:15","modified":"2013-11-11 00:22:23","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:22:23","article":"

It Must Have Been Another Country

by Steven Mikulan

The first PATRIOT Act passed Congress 45 days after 9\/11 when the smoke was still rising from the World Trade Center debris. So far, its sequel has not been formally introduced for debate, which is just fine with one Long Beach man facing jail time because of Act I. Sherman Austin, whose Valley home was raided early last year by the FBI and a joint anti-terrorist SWAT team of local law-enforcement agencies, has become something of a firsthand expert on the consequences of tripping the administration’s radar. The then-18-year-old anarchist ran the www.raisethefist.com Web site, which the government had long been monitoring before pulling the plug on it when the site ran a link to another Web page posting explosives and firearms information. Austin was not arrested or charged with anything then, but shortly after the raid he was seized with about two dozen people near New York’s Central Park during the February 2002 World Economic Forum protests.

Dreadlocks and a thin beard give Austin the appearance of a young Bob Marley, but his troubles with the U.S. government more resemble the travails of novelist Bernard Malamud’s persecuted character in The Fixer. Following his Central Park bust, Austin was whisked to a processing station near the United Nations, put in a detention cage at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, then bused back to a cell in Manhattan. He was served bread and oranges as men who identified themselves as FBI and Secret Service agents questioned him — Who did he come to New York with? Was he part of a terrorist agency? After 30 hours he was taken to a courthouse in Manhattan where G-men arrested Austin for “distribution of information relating to explosives” and where the feds tried to persuade a judge of the threat Austin posed to the republic.

“What the FBI said was totally bogus,” Austin says. “That I was a man on a mission, that I was going to blow up the Olympics.”

From Manhattan, Austin was driven to an Air Force base upstate, then flown to a federal prison in Oklahoma where, after 13 days in custody, he was finally kicked free when a prosecutor declined to file charges at the time. Half a year later, the government changed its mind.

“The prosecutors called and told my lawyers they didn’t want to let me off the hook,” Austin recalls, “because they’d spent all this money and paperwork on my case.”

Last September the prosecutor’s office and Austin’s lawyer worked out a plea arrangement in which he would serve only one month in custody and three years on probation. But in L.A., California Central District Judge Stephen V. Wilson threw out the agreement as too lenient and scheduled the trial for sometime in May 2003. At first Austin considered fighting the case in court, but was then told by a federal probation consultant that, with PATRIOT Act “enhancements,” his crime could land him 20 years if convicted.

“We’re like, Yeah, take any plea you can!” Austin says. His defense’s new proposal seeks a sentence in the same range as the first plea, and could get him anywhere between one and 12 months’ jail time, but he won’t know until he goes up before Judge Wilson on June 30. In the meantime, Austin waits, tending the raisethefist Web site and “keeping my distance” from the Long Beach police, who, he claims, regularly stop or follow him and make a point of letting him know they’re familiar with his name.

Austin’s case, like a few similar ones around the nation, has received almost no press attention or interest in a country whose citizens simply don’t want to believe such things are happening — or don’t care. It might remind some of us of the lines from an old Phil Ochs song about murder and legal violence in America:

I know that couldn’t happen here. Oh, it must have been another country — Yes, it must have been another land.

And yet it is happening here, because we are about as interested in what happens to some 19-year-old dreadlocked citizen as we are in a 13-year-old foreigner held in Guantánamo. The past, when viewed only as images, always seems outlandish, its crimes so avoidable. What Americans don’t realize, perhaps, is that our government’s innate taste for repression and intolerance has never gone away, it just wears nicer clothes and speaks softer — Bill O’Reilly for Joe McCarthy, PATRIOT Act II for Executive Order 9066. Then again, maybe we don’t care that our library visits could be monitored, or maybe we’ve always assumed the government had that right anyway. What are we thinking?



We Americans like to think we’d never allow our rights to be traded away and shake our heads at grainy photographs and newsreels of the soldiers, cops and politicians responsible for herding the Indians onto reservations, rounding up the Japanese for relocation camps and sending the Rosenbergs to the chair. What were they thinking? we ask in a brave, enlightened voice that slyly asks the same question of the persecuted as well.

We may soon be finding out the answer in our own responses to the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, known more colloquially as the PATRIOT Act II. When a draft of the new act was leaked in January to the Center for Public Integrity, it created an outcry that the war with Iraq and Oscar chatter quickly drowned out. Among other things, it calls for legislation that will place American citizens in the company of those hapless history-book victims, as well as on equal footing with Afghan prisoners in Guantánamo Bay.

It will permit authorities to legally abduct and “disappear” citizens pending charges; it will repeal current restraints preventing local police departments from spying on religious and political groups and give the government the power to obtain financial credit reports “without issuing multiple time-consuming subpoenas.” It will also authorize the government to strip U.S. citizenship from anyone who belongs to an organization it deems terroristic. And, of course, it will add the death penalty (always a plus in Mr. Bush’s eyes) to a new range of offenses. Oh yes, and Section 205 grants tax breaks to Cabinet members, Congress members and others who require bodyguards and security details. Can’t forget those tax breaks.

http:\/\/www.laweekly.com\/ink\/03\/25\/open-mikulan.php<\/a>



<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"http:\/\/www.raisethefist.com","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":".","numcomment":45,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2003\/05\/56733.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":56765,"heading":"L.A. Meekly","article":"Way to go Steven Mikulan! After spending your time during the bombing of Iraq attacking peace demonstrators for being dull witted lefties... you now come out strong in defense of the wing nut Sherman Austin and his silly anarcho playpen, "raise the fist."\r\n\r\nMove over Marc Cooper... Steven Mikulan contests your position as the Meekly's point man for what is authentically left. \r\n\r\nPerhaps now the L.A. Meekly can run an Ad to raise defense money for the twit Austin. There's plenty of room amongst all the Sex Ads in the back of the Meekly for such garbage.\r\n\r\nWow... after becoming famous for handing out bomb making recipes, Sherman can now boast about having been written up in the milk toast Meekly by one of it's treacherous liberal reporters. \r\n\r\nA pox on the Meekly... and a pox on "raise the fist."","author":"black-block head","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-10 00:17:54","modified":"2003-05-10 00:17:54","fileurl":""},{"id":56775,"heading":"heh","article":"How did I know you were going to be the first to comment on this article?\r\n\r\n","author":"rtf","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-10 01:32:35","modified":"2003-05-10 01:32:35","fileurl":""},{"id":56777,"heading":"Bogus, and then some...","article":"I don't quite understand how the Feds rationale. . .I've got several short tomes, that are freely available for anyone with the money to buy them, on how to build stuff that makes molotov cocktails pale in comparison. Take a look in any Soldier of Fortune magazine and you will see ads for Paladin Press and others that sell all sorts of information. \r\n\r\nHow is this any different than posting a link to molotov cocktail recipes? Can you say "political bullshit," children? I knew you could.\r\n\r\n","author":"Point","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-10 02:09:57","modified":"2003-05-10 02:09:57","fileurl":""},{"id":56781,"heading":"This is purely and simply...","article":"...a political persecution. The information he is charged with "illegally" distributing is freely available in most Public Libraries.\r\n\r\nI know he's scared and I don't know for sure what I would do but my personal inclination would be to fight it and take it to a Jury.\r\n\r\nLord knows with our corrupt legal system that he has no prayer of Justice.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-10 03:13:22","modified":"2003-05-10 03:13:22","fileurl":""},{"id":56997,"heading":"guesstimate of reasons","article":"As I understand it, the first bust was on "hacking" charges, and it ended in no arrest. I think that they just wanted his computer, and to case the place to get him on other crap.\r\n\r\nThe feds are playing dirty, and abusing their power.\r\n\r\nThe merits of rtf's site notwithstanding, the entire case is bogus, and more of the liberals and left should have rallied to support rtf. Unfortunately, I know a lot of liberals probably just shrugged rtf off as a website for angry young people, and in their advanced age, lacking any remaining empathy for angry young people, ignored the issue.\r\n\r\nIn doing so, they ignored a blatant case of police abuse of power... perhaps at their own peril.\r\n","author":"John Kawakami","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-10 18:45:23","modified":"2003-05-10 18:45:23","fileurl":""},{"id":57061,"heading":"We are not the only ones who have thought...","article":"...another's liberty worth defending.\r\n\r\n\u201cThose who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.\u201d \r\n--Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, No. 1\r\n\r\n\u201cHe that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.\u201d\r\n--Thomas Paine, Dissertation on First Principles of Government\r\n\r\n\u201cThe spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all.\u201d\r\n-- Thomas Jefferson","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 01:51:26","modified":"2013-11-11 00:22:26","fileurl":""},{"id":57090,"heading":"Cool quotes Dio","article":"Too bad the moron "black block head"\r\nWhen to great lengths establishing the premises to \r\nhis argument\r\nthat were based on an ad hominem style argument\r\nattempting to discredit the writer of the article\r\nrather than\r\naddress the core concept of the article relating\r\nto the erosion of the american constitution\r\nand \r\nthe failure of the system to protect its citizens that\r\nare supposed to be guaranteed \r\nthe freedom of speech\r\nfreedom of association\r\nand the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.\r\n\r\nunfortunatly "black block head"\r\nhad shown himself to be a \r\ntraitor to the constitution\r\nand a traitor to all americans.","author":"systemfailure","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 09:25:03","modified":"2003-05-11 09:25:03","fileurl":""},{"id":57107,"heading":"Thanks...","article":"...I do so love the spirit of Jefferson, Paine, and a few others. I am not government property and I intend to fight to the end to stay that way - NeoCons and Marxist-Totalitarians not withstanding.\r\n\r\nI agree with you on black-bloc head. But shouldn't it be "blockhead"?","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 12:45:57","modified":"2003-05-11 12:45:57","fileurl":""},{"id":57109,"heading":"Fuck you","article":"Fuck you sytem, you fuckin' loser.\r\nThe kid has dealocks AND a wispy beard.\r\nThat's grounds right there to lock up\r\nhis hippy ass on general principles.\r\n\r\nWe can debate the constitutionality of this\r\nall day long, but a larger truth is in place:\r\nthe little rat bastard is certainly getting what his\r\nkarma demands.\r\n\r\nMaybe now lil' sherman will get is bob marley lookin' head outa his ass and grow up.","author":"semtex","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 12:47:51","modified":"2003-05-11 12:47:51","fileurl":""},{"id":57132,"heading":"Gosh I did not realize...","article":"...that dressing in a way that some loser does not like was illegal.\r\n\r\nSeig Heil!","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 15:23:43","modified":"2003-05-11 15:23:43","fileurl":""},{"id":57212,"heading":"Hmmm","article":"Your garbled post notwithstanding, I'm sure you didn't realize this. You realize very little don't you.","author":"systemfailure","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 23:02:46","modified":"2003-05-11 23:02:46","fileurl":""},{"id":57220,"heading":"Whats up you fucking scumbag TROLLS","article":"Aint got nothin better to do than write under\r\nsomeone elses moniker?\r\nAfraid to put your own ass on the line and\r\nstate your own opinions?\r\nEat shit......\r\nFucking neocon troll motherfukers\r\nps\r\nTHE ABOVE TWO POSTS ARE TROLLS","author":"systemfailure","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 23:47:12","modified":"2003-05-11 23:47:12","fileurl":""},{"id":57225,"heading":"ya mean","article":""Aint got nothin better to do than write under someone elses moniker?"\r\n\r\nsorta like the guy who posts fake messages using bush admirer, simple simon, daveman, eric, and other names? you mean like that guy does?\r\n\r\n","author":"ya mean","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-11 23:52:21","modified":"2003-05-11 23:52:21","fileurl":""},{"id":57253,"heading":"More world-famous Indymedia double standards","article":"It's just a hoot when the conservatives are faked.\r\n\r\nBut when the regulars are faked, look at the hissy fits fly!","author":"daveman","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-12 02:42:15","modified":"2003-05-12 02:42:15","fileurl":""},{"id":57353,"heading":"Davegirl, what do you think of the article?","article":"Hey there stupid.\r\nWhy dont you read the article and then comment on it?\r\nWhat is your viewpoint on the Patriot act and about Patriot 2?\r\nHow about the unfortunate repression of Sherman austin?\r\nLooks like this is traitorous to the constitution,\r\nby domestic citizens....\r\nSo what are you gonna do about it?\r\nnothing?\r\nthats what i thought","author":"TFbayonnet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-12 23:08:20","modified":"2003-05-12 23:08:20","fileurl":""},{"id":57359,"heading":"Fuck Sherman","article":"Fuck that bedraggled dredlocked cocksucker.\r\nFuck his middle class whiteboy\r\nTrust fund ideals.\r\nHe made his bed and now he's got to sleep in it.\r\nIf Patriot Act brought this on then\r\nThank God for it.\r\nFinally a way to rid us all of these\r\nlosers.\r\nHopefully, lil'\r\nsherm will get raped in jail and\r\nconvert to Christianity","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-12 23:30:41","modified":"2003-05-12 23:30:41","fileurl":""},{"id":57393,"heading":"I take it in the ass","article":"I really like the feeling of a huge schlong in my ass.","author":"KOBE SBM","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-15 16:45:42","modified":"2003-05-15 16:45:42","fileurl":""},{"id":57395,"heading":"We must all rise up!","article":"Wake up fellow Americans! Our civil liberties are (still) under attack! Rise up and put down the fascists before we find ourselves under "detention"!","author":"Aurthor McBleatty","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-15 18:08:01","modified":"2003-05-15 18:08:01","fileurl":""},{"id":57613,"heading":"to TFBayonet","article":"TFBayonet , sherman isnt a middle-class white boy, dumbass. If youre so brave and sure of yourself why cant you say anything to anyones face instead of saying behind a computer moniter.","author":"p","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-16 19:21:45","modified":"2003-05-16 19:21:45","fileurl":""},{"id":57640,"heading":"huh?","article":""TFBayonet , sherman isnt a middle-class white boy, dumbass. If youre so brave and sure of yourself why cant you say anything to anyones face instead of saying behind a computer moniter."\r\n\r\nDid you even think about how ludicrous a statement that was considering you've posted it on a message board from your COMPUTER.\r\n\r\nYou are a moron.\r\nOh if only I could meet lil'sherm or yourself face to face.\r\nI'd LOVE to discuss these matters.\r\nAnd for the record, Sherman is in fact exactly as I've described him.\r\n\r\nLong live the Patriot Act. It's just too bad it took the filthy muslims attacking us to have it instated.","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-16 23:00:56","modified":"2003-05-16 23:00:56","fileurl":""},{"id":57684,"heading":"hello","article":"TFB, if you'd like to discuss these matters in person i'm more than happy to do so. I think it would be better that way since you'll at least get to see me face to face, and your arguments would then be a bit more valid after you know I ain't some middle-class white boy. Feel free to drop me an email, blackstarliberation@yahoo.com .. ","author":"rtf","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-17 08:38:03","modified":"2003-05-17 08:38:03","fileurl":""},{"id":57718,"heading":"Regardless of the pissing contest...","article":"...race in this matter is irrelevant.\r\n\r\nEither he is being shut down for political motives or he is not. Race has nothing to do with it.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-17 13:37:07","modified":"2003-05-17 13:37:07","fileurl":""},{"id":57729,"heading":"read again","article":""you know I ain't some middle-class white boy"\r\n\r\nToo bad for you.\r\n\r\nRegardless, I'm telling you that lil' sherm is a middle class white boy.\r\nI have no interest in your dubious lineage.","author":"TF Bayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-17 14:25:22","modified":"2003-05-17 14:25:22","fileurl":""},{"id":57840,"heading":"umm..","article":"uhm TFB, i AM sherman..\r\n\r\nAnd race does play a matter in this. It is absolutly relevant.\r\n\r\n","author":"rtf","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 00:57:09","modified":"2003-05-18 00:57:09","fileurl":""},{"id":57896,"heading":"RTF","article":"If you read through all the posts\r\nYou can see that my first post on\r\n\r\nby TFbayonnet \u2022 Sunday May 11, 2003 07:08 PM\r\n\r\nNOtice how "my" views drastically changed after i originally lent my support to shermans cause.......\r\n\r\nWas in support of Sherman and in opposition to the Patriot acts\/\r\nThere are alot of people on this page that TROLL other\r\npeoples monikers to discredit them and thier views.\r\n\r\nI support RTF 100% and support sherman austin.\r\nIts too bad that these TROLLS infringe upon anothers freedom\r\nof speech.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 07:08:05","modified":"2013-11-11 00:22:30","fileurl":""},{"id":57923,"heading":"exactly","article":""uhm TFB, i AM sherman.. \r\n\r\nAnd race does play a matter in this. It is absolutly relevant. \r\n"\r\n\r\nWhy you'd want to pretend to be some silly dreadlocked RATM fan with a website is beyond me, but knock yourself out.\r\n\r\nThe fact that sherm IS a middle class trust fund kid IS relevant. It illustrates the innate hypocrisy of his anti-elitism stanch. He couldn't be more priveleged.\r\n\r\nFuck him and you.","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 13:35:25","modified":"2003-05-18 13:35:25","fileurl":""},{"id":57961,"heading":"Trust Fund?","article":"Conservative trolls always say that leftitsts and anarchists are "trust fund" white kids. Maybe it's something about LA, but here, a lot, if not most, of the leftist activists (at least in the anarchist milieu) are working class (in the traditional image of joe sixpack), and not white. Many are poor or from marginal existences. Many are middle class, but few are rich or own property beyond their own homes. The color of anarchy in LA is mostly brown or tan. It might even be more jewish than anglo. It just reflects the reality of the region.","author":"johnk","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 16:06:19","modified":"2003-05-18 16:06:19","fileurl":""},{"id":57964,"heading":"whoa there son","article":"A) I'm simply stating a fact. Sherman IS a caucasion male from an upper middle class family who is the beneficiary of a trust fund. What is so hard to comprehend about that?\r\n\r\nB) At least here in LA, the picture of the "anarchist" is almost exclusively this same description minus the trust-fund.\r\n\r\nLeftist trolls always want to spin the ranks of the "anarchists" as working class people of color and it simply doesn't wash.","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 16:11:20","modified":"2003-05-18 16:11:20","fileurl":""},{"id":57982,"heading":"what?","article":"what? I have a trust fund? Shit, since when? I don't even have health insurance. Sorry i've never experianced a "privilaged" life-style like you have TFB. My mom was a single parent raising 3 kids on her own without any support while I was growing up, at times working 2 jobs at the same time. I was never pampered with continuous luxeries like you were. Unlike the "trust fund anarchists" you speak of, I don't get bailed outta jail when I get arrested, I can't hire private attorneys. and if I ever do get a little bit of money, it all goes to stupid court fees and fines from contiously getting fucked with by police.\r\nTFB, you don't know the first thing about me. You don't know how I was bought up in this world, or what my life style is. You're just a chump who's got nothin better to do than sit online and pretend he has a valid argument. \r\n\r\npeace\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"rtf","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 18:43:44","modified":"2003-05-18 18:43:44","fileurl":""},{"id":57984,"heading":"tfb is lying","article":"He's not even the real TFB, but an imposter.\r\n\r\nWhoever he is, maybe he's a wannabe "agent" for the cops. You know the type - the guy who becomes a rent-a-cop because he couldn't hack the entrance exam into the police academy. The team player who can't make the team. The coward who sides with the bullies who really despise him, because he's even more afraid of being alone.\r\n\r\nI know this stupid game. We played it in grade school - I call you names, so I can make you angry, and I've controlled your mind.\r\n\r\nAngry yet?","author":"johnk","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 19:15:13","modified":"2003-05-18 19:15:13","fileurl":""},{"id":57985,"heading":"tfb is lying","article":"He's not even the real TFB, but an imposter.\r\n\r\nWhoever he is, maybe he's a wannabe "agent" for the cops. You know the type - the guy who becomes a rent-a-cop because he couldn't hack the entrance exam into the police academy. The team player who can't make the team. The coward who sides with the bullies who really despise him, because he's even more afraid of being alone.\r\n\r\nI know this stupid game. We played it in grade school - I call you names, so I can make you angry, and I've controlled your mind.\r\n\r\nAngry yet?","author":"johnk","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 19:16:27","modified":"2003-05-18 19:16:27","fileurl":""},{"id":57986,"heading":"tfb is lying","article":"He's not even the real TFB, but an imposter.\r\n\r\nWhoever he is, maybe he's a wannabe "agent" for the cops. You know the type - the guy who becomes a rent-a-cop because he couldn't hack the entrance exam into the police academy. The team player who can't make the team. The coward who sides with the bullies who really despise him, because he's even more afraid of being alone.\r\n\r\nI know this stupid game. We played it in grade school - I call you names, so I can make you angry, and I've controlled your mind.\r\n\r\nAngry yet?","author":"johnk","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-18 19:19:11","modified":"2003-05-18 19:19:11","fileurl":""},{"id":58084,"heading":"Anarchy Forever","article":"What a sad excuse for a life when people have to TROLL other peoples monikers to try to discredit thier words.\r\nThe patriot Act 1 and 2 are direct violations of the constitution and hense invalid.\r\nThey directly usurp "habeas corpus" (as in Shermans case), and violate a persons first amendment right to freedom of association.\r\nForgo your right to a public trial.\r\nand\r\nYour right to question witnesses used against you.\r\nand\r\nFreedom of speech.\r\n\r\nTo the COINTEL cops out there.....go read the constitution that you are supposedly attempting to uphold.\r\nBut the true shame is that being a police officer today is really equatable to being a stupid idiot.\r\nI mean, these middle income white jackasses only make 40 K a year and try to act like thier job is so fuckin hard.\r\nBULLSHIT. \r\n There isnt that much violent crime in L.A.\r\nCrime is at its lowest stage since the 1970's.\r\n\r\nThese dudes are glorified brown shirts that only flex thier muscle to prove how inept thier brains are.\r\nTHEY roll around the streets looking to start shit with people. Big fat asses and fat bellies.\r\nProtect and serve....?\r\nYeah, right\r\nHarass and disturb.....?\r\nMore like it.\r\n\r\nSupport your local anarchist\r\nDefeat the State Run antichrist\r\n\r\nSherman AUstin is a political prisoner.\r\nSupport Raise the Fist.\r\n","author":"the real "TFBayonnet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 19:57:13","modified":"2003-05-19 19:57:13","fileurl":""},{"id":58093,"heading":"Anarchy Forever","article":"Support your local anarchist, because we're too socially outcast to follow even the simplest of rules.","author":"daveman","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 22:06:31","modified":"2003-05-19 22:06:31","fileurl":""},{"id":58103,"heading":"anarchy for anybody","article":"Do you know the difference between society and government?\r\nFollow the rules?\r\nI am too stupid to follow the rules?\r\n\r\nAN argument of equivication might state that YOUR president who is supposed to uphold and defend the constitution (a set of rules).\r\nPasses laws such as the Patriot acts (not following the rules of the constitution) and expects blind allegence.\r\n\r\nDO you really know anything at all daveman?\r\nYOUR president cant even follow the stupid rules of our society, so what does that make him?\r\n\r\nWhat does that make you?\r\n\r\n"Who is the bigger fool?"\r\n"The fool , or the one that follows him"","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 23:07:31","modified":"2003-05-19 23:07:31","fileurl":""},{"id":58106,"heading":"Quick question, TBF...","article":"Name one single long-lasting, stable anarchistic society.","author":"daveman","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 23:09:22","modified":"2003-05-19 23:09:22","fileurl":""},{"id":58112,"heading":"Well, there are so many","article":"Essentially all communities that co-opt human relationships.\r\nBefore governments, how did people survive?\r\nThey mostly operated on an anarchistic philosophy.\r\n\r\nThe tribes of Africa\r\nThe tribes of American Indians\r\nAmish communities\r\nMost Third world villages operate under "anarchy"\r\nMost people as thier own philosophy operate rather\r\nanarchisticly. \r\nWHy dont you burn down a store that makes you angry?\r\nWHy dont you kill a person for an argument?\r\nWHy dont you drive 100mph down a school st?\r\n\r\nIs it the law of the government, or\r\nthe law of human nature to try to protect others \r\nwithin our own society?\r\n\r\nWhat is stopping you daveman from doing the above mentioned things?\r\nThe LAw of the government\r\nor \r\nthe law of god\r\nor\r\nthe law of being human or human(e)?\r\n\r\nDO you know what anarchy means daveman?\r\nNot what your brainwashed professor told you...\r\nTrue anachism is based on a shared community that survive with the people living together harmoniously.","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 23:18:38","modified":"2003-05-19 23:18:38","fileurl":""},{"id":58117,"heading":"So how do you plan...","article":"...on setting that up in the US?\r\n\r\nGood luck; you'll need it.","author":"daveman","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 23:22:19","modified":"2003-05-19 23:22:19","fileurl":""},{"id":58122,"heading":"COol,","article":"Way to address the argument.\r\nTypical fashion of the daveman.","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 23:27:03","modified":"2003-05-19 23:27:03","fileurl":""},{"id":58125,"heading":"Then you admit...","article":"...the United States has no chance of being an anarchistic society.\r\n\r\nEverybody already knows that.","author":"daveman","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 23:31:32","modified":"2003-05-19 23:31:32","fileurl":""},{"id":58129,"heading":"nice fallacies though","article":"no chance eh?\r\nDid you reference the Amish communities?\r\n\r\nDid you look up the definition of anarchism?\r\nDidnt think so .\r\n\r\nIn your race to be "right", you rushed around and didnt bother to adequately engage the argument.\r\n\r\nYou resorted to the fallacy of "hand waiving"\r\n(claiming somthing is true or false, because "everyone" knows it to be the case).\r\n\r\nDo you know what social anarchy is daveman?\r\nAre you refering to anarchism in small rural communities?\r\nIn the Big cities?\r\nThe suburbs?\r\n\r\nOr do you just like to make "blanket statements", then sit back in your chair and smile becuase you know your "right"?\r\n\r\nIs that what this is about?\r\nBeing right?\r\nor \r\nis it about having a political\/philosophical conversation\r\nabout the pros and cons of anarchism in america?","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-19 23:39:38","modified":"2003-05-19 23:39:38","fileurl":""},{"id":58162,"heading":"uh do some reading imposter","article":""Did you reference the Amish communities"\r\n\r\nYou need to do a little research instead of shooting your mouth off.\r\nAmish communities are HEAVILY regulated from within and follow a very strict set of codes (laws) and ethics. The punishment for disobeying is no less strict to them then the ourt system would be to you or I. In addition, ALL criminal and viryually all civil laws and regulations from state and federal authorities apply to them as well.\r\n\r\nThey are, ironically enough, one of the absolute least anarchist society you could have mentioned.\r\n\r\nAnd rtf, I'll be sure and let sherm know he has an imposter.","author":"TFBayonet","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-20 03:30:28","modified":"2003-05-20 03:30:28","fileurl":""},{"id":58177,"heading":"To whoever","article":"Regardless of any successful anarchistic societies...\r\n\r\nRegardless of who knows it...\r\n\r\nAnarchism will never be instituted in the United States.\r\n\r\nPeriod.\r\n\r\nGranted, it works okay in small doses...the African tibes, for instance...where the main goal seems to be survival. But it will not work in a large, diverse society with complex goals and needs.","author":"daveman","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-20 07:47:14","modified":"2003-05-20 07:47:14","fileurl":""},{"id":58179,"heading":"Hmm....","article":"Anarchism in the US?\r\nProbally not.\r\nBut Davegirl.\r\nIn your other article you showed us how the "communists" were to come to power...\r\nCouldnt the anarchists do it the same way?\r\n\r\nLucky we have the constitution.\r\nThe last bastion and protector of individual civil rights,\r\nwhos lasting freedom is not only a beacon for\r\nall americans\r\n.\r\nThe fight for human rights is the light\r\ntowards which the whole world community observes.","author":"systemfailure","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-20 07:56:08","modified":"2003-05-20 07:56:08","fileurl":""},{"id":58256,"heading":"To whoever","article":"Is anyone here into scat or bukkake?","author":"daveman","parent_id":56733,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-05-20 14:35:22","modified":"2003-05-20 14:35:22","fileurl":""}]}