{"article":{"id":35167,"heading":"BREAKING - BRITAIN BACKING OUT OF IRAQ WAR","author":"C\/O DIOGENES","created":"2003-03-13 03:58:51","modified":"2003-03-13 17:33:24","last_modified":"Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:33:24","article":"

Brits Backing Out?

March 11, 2003



Sources tell CBS News that Great Britain – America's closest ally – may find it politically impossible to commit its military to a U.S.-led attack on Saddam Hussein. And that could force the United States to go it alone in Iraq.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld hinted as much Tuesday.

\"To the extent that they are able to participate that would obviously be welcomed. To the extent they are not, well, there are workarounds,\" Rumsfeld said.

War in Iraq is now supported by fewer than 20 percent of Britons, and Prime Minister Tony Blair has told Washington he needs U.N. authorization, reports CBS News Correspondent Bill Plante.

So Britain is now talking about a new amendment to the draft resolution in the Security Council that would extend the March 17 deadline by as much as another ten days and would include strictly defined disarmament benchmarks – something the U.S. has opposed in the past.

\"The United Kingdom is in a negotiation and it's prepared to look at timelines and tests together,\" Britain's U.N. Ambassador Jeremy Greenstock said. \"But I'm pretty sure we're talking about action in March, don't look beyond March.\"

The White House said it didn't object to the tests, but made it clear that the time is limited.

\"What the president has said is that there is room for a little more diplomacy, but not a lot of time to do it. The vote will take place this week,\" said press secretary Ari Fleischer.

The Bush administration had talked of a vote as early as Tuesday, but with France and Russia threatening to veto the current draft resolution, and without the minimum nine \"yes\" votes, it held up action in the council.

Diplomats from six council nations considered swing votes – Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Guinea, Mexico and Pakistan – proposed Tuesday that Saddam be given 45 days to meet benchmarks and demonstrate that Iraq is disarming.

But that appeared out of the question for the United States and Britain.

\"It's not going anywhere, there's only one resolution on the table,\" one U.S. official said.

Under the proposed British amendment, Saddam would have 10 days to prove Iraq has taken a \"strategic decision\" to disarm, which could be done with a series of tests or \"benchmarks,\" council diplomats said.

If Iraq makes that decision, a second phase would begin with more time to verify Iraq's full disarmament, the diplomats said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Reacting to the possible British compromise, French diplomats said the resolution would still mean authorizing war, which France is unwilling to do. However, the French Foreign Ministry in Paris indicated it was open to new ideas.

\"It's a new development and the future will tell us if it is a significant development,\" said Foreign Ministry spokesman Francois Rivasseau. \"We've indicated we are open to dialogue.\"

Nonetheless, he stressed that the \"red line\" set out by France cannot be crossed: \"We want no ultimatum. We want no element of automaticity. And we've said we want what the inspectors say taken into account.\"

Russia's U.N. Ambassador Sergey Lavrov was equally adamant.

\"We see no reason whatsoever to interrupt the inspections and any resolution which contains ultimatums and which contains automaticity for the use of force is not acceptable to us,\" he said.

The U.S. has the support of Britain, Spain and Bulgaria, with Cameroon and Mexico reportedly leaning toward the U.S. position. But with Germany, Syria and Pakistan preparing abstentions or \"no\" votes, Washington is trying to appeal to Chile, Angola and Guinea.

While the diplomats debate a war with Iraq, the Pentagon pressed ahead with final preparations for waging war. On Tuesday, a new weapon was added to the mix: the biggest conventional bomb ever dropped from an airplane.

It is officially designated the Massive Ordnance Air Blast, or MOAB, although it has come to be called unofficially the Mother of All Bombs, a rough allusion to Saddam Hussein's claim before the 1991 Gulf War that that conflict would be the \"mother of all battles.\"

The Pentagon's newest and biggest weapon had to be tested before it can be used in combat. And at 21,000 pounds it promised to cause such a massive detonation that residents around the Florida bombing range had to be warned in advance.

The speed with which the Pentagon released video of the test was clearly intended as a warning to the Iraqi military of what they might face if it comes to war, reports CBS News National Security Correspondent David Martin.

\"The goal is to have the capabilities of the coalition so clear and so obvious that there's an enormous disincentive for the Iraqi military to fight,\" Rumsfeld said.

U.S. officials say there are already secret surrender negotiations underway with the commanders of some Iraqi military units. Rumsfeld says that before the shooting starts all Iraqi units will be given one last chance to give up.

\"They will receive instructions so that they can behave in a way that will be seen and understood as being non-threatening and they will not be considered combatants,\" Rumsfeld said.

What effect Tuesday's bomb test will have on the Iraqi will to fight remains to be seen, but the sight of a bomb so powerful that a parachute is needed to slow its descent and give the plane which dropped it time to get away from the blast can only demoralize Iraqi troops. It might also convince them to take shelter in the cities since the U.S. could never use a weapon that powerful anywhere near civilians.

In other developments:



Iraqi fighter jets threatened two American U-2 surveillance planes, forcing them to abort their mission and return to base, U.S. officials said. A Pentagon official said the decision to end the mission was made \"in the interest of safety.\" Iraq said the U.N. had apologized for the incident and called a \"technical mistake.\"



A spokesman for U.N. weapons inspectors says Iraq is destroying more of those banned Al Samoud Two missiles. No word on how many, though. Inspectors also visited a Baghdad factory that makes batteries and an aviation office in a northern city. Iraq, meanwhile, says any invaders would face death.



Americans are being urged to leave Oman and the United Arab Emirates. The State Department says it's due to \"heightened tensions\" and \"increased security concerns.\" The military has planes stationed in both countries prepared to attack Iraq if President Bush authorizes military action.

<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"It looks like the Protests have forced Phony Tony into an advance to the rear. A million protesters might have had a little to do with it.","numcomment":25,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2003\/03\/35167.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":35168,"heading":"Stuff it Trolls","article":"No more fig leaf of British "Support".","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 03:59:41","modified":"2003-03-13 03:59:41","fileurl":""},{"id":35172,"heading":"Simple","article":"Attention Diogenes:\r\n\r\nRumsfeld has retracted his statements.\r\n\r\nDon't you wish that you could retract yours?","author":"Simple Simon","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 04:35:53","modified":"2003-03-13 04:35:53","fileurl":""},{"id":35173,"heading":"Hate to pee on your parade but...","article":" \r\nRumsfeld Backtracks on British War Role in Iraq \r\n...\r\n"And, four hours later, Rumsfeld issued a terse two-paragraph written statement expressing confidence that the forces of America's most prominent ally would be side-by-side with U.S. troops should an attack take place."\r\n...\r\nhttp:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/wp-dyn\/articles\/A12774-2003Mar11.html\r\n\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 04:37:50","modified":"2003-03-13 04:37:50","fileurl":""},{"id":35178,"heading":"Reprieve","article":"If we can mobilize that many million for reprieve from war in Iraq alone, imagine how much bloodshed we can stop around the world. Building schools for conservationist engineers, and making sure food and land is cared for and distributed carefully. A victory in staving off this war, only brings us back to positive for a second. The continuing push for quality in labor and earth rights continues, and hopefully we will balance the scales of justice.","author":"mymicz","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 05:08:59","modified":"2003-03-13 05:08:59","fileurl":""},{"id":35179,"heading":"Headline","article":"BUSH DECLARES ABSOLUTE, MOST DEFINITE, FINAL, THE LAST OF ALL TIME, ONE MORE FOR THE GIPPER, A REAL FINALE, THE CRUX OF THE SUGAR CONE, THE ICING ON THE CAKE, LAST, LAST, LAST, LAST, LAST, LAST, FOR SURE, REALLY THE LAST ULTIMATUM\r\n","author":"Judge Notch","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 05:10:44","modified":"2003-03-13 05:10:44","fileurl":""},{"id":35186,"heading":"latest strategy","article":"in general it is a brilliant idea. Make chaos, \r\nmix messages, retract, blur lines, increase air-assault, \r\nchange targets, say "news to me"\r\nstudder, be strong, appear confused,\r\nscream, imply connections,\r\ntell everybody "it's okay, pray, just relax, go shopping," \r\nscream orange alert,\r\nretract. false alarm.\r\n be absolute. \r\nforget your speech. gut reaction is an ice breaker.\r\nbe bold, shoot from the hip, \r\ntell the world you can do go it alone, \r\nno more time needed,\r\nretract, stumble, \r\nsuggest that you'll consider 15, March deadline.\r\nscream, show some pictures of bombs, pray,\r\ntell tony it's okay you'll go it alone, retract, \r\nbe strong, terse, bold.\r\n\r\nyour crowd will turn apathetic and roll over, go for it.\r\nforget it about. play golf, sky-dive, invest, retire,\r\nfuck community\r\ninvolvement\r\n\r\nwrite a book about yourself.\r\n\r\n","author":"disorient","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 05:34:31","modified":"2003-03-13 05:34:31","fileurl":""},{"id":35188,"heading":"Hey!","article":">>in general it is a brilliant idea. Make chaos, \r\n\r\nHmmm sounds like maybe Rummy is an Anarchist?\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 05:51:37","modified":"2003-03-13 05:51:37","fileurl":""},{"id":35190,"heading":"I would think...","article":"...Rummy is chewing nails. Only time will tell but it is looking good. Blair has lost support from a large contingent of his own Back Benchers and the British Public is overwhelmingly opposed.\r\n\r\nWhile I would expect that there is some heavy duty strong-arming going on behind the scenes Blair is caught between Iraq and a hard place.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 06:07:56","modified":"2003-03-13 06:07:56","fileurl":""},{"id":35191,"heading":"Maybe.. maybe not","article":">>Only time will tell but it is looking good. \r\n\r\nNot necessarily. \r\n\r\nThe deposed alpha-male primate is the one that is most angry and dangerous.\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 06:12:49","modified":"2003-03-13 06:12:49","fileurl":""},{"id":35192,"heading":"DAMMIT","article":"I WANT MY GODDAMN COUNTRY BACK!!!!\r\n\r\nI'm not rich, my family won't be passing much of a heritage on to me, I'm not pretty, I'm not popular, and I'm not particularly smart... I have never been any of these things, the only two things in life that have ever brought me any pride at all are that I am stubborn and I am American AND YOU BASTARD SHITFUCKS WILL NOT ROB ME OF THAT!!!\r\n\r\nWho is prepared to defend their civil liberties to the death? I for one would rather die as a proud American than live as spineless thieving bastard warmonger.\r\n\r\nGo get your guns.\r\n\r\nAnd you shut the fuck up simon. I'm so sick of your shit. You and BA both can take your government handout paychecks and choke on them.","author":"Pissed Off in Ohio","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 06:19:49","modified":"2003-03-13 06:19:49","fileurl":""},{"id":35205,"heading":"err...","article":"I suppose that last statement doesn't really pertain to britian backing out much... I'm just so damn pissed off i don't know where to begin.\r\n\r\nThese halfbaked nazi-knockoffs think they can hijack our country and i'm sick of it.\r\n","author":"Still Pissed Off in Ohio","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 06:26:17","modified":"2003-03-13 06:26:17","fileurl":""},{"id":35207,"heading":"Define Nazi","article":">>These halfbaked nazi-knockoffs\r\n\r\nI understand your anger. But we've got a long way to go before we can be compared to the Nazis.\r\n\r\nHave you seen the Pianist? \r\n\r\nCan you see U.S. soldiers building the Warsaw Ghetto? No way.\r\n\r\nMax","author":"MadMax","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 06:40:17","modified":"2003-03-13 06:40:17","fileurl":""},{"id":35210,"heading":"Oh I dunno, I'd say We've Come a Long Way Baby","article":"Recent and not so recent events directly parallel the nazi rise to power. The similarities are so overwhelming it defies reason to think that people are not already up in arms.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.geocities.com\/onemansmind\/hr\/nazi\/Weimar02.html\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.commondreams.org\/views02\/0913-03.htm\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.rense.com\/general24\/operationnorthwoods.htm\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.weyrich.com\/political_issues\/reichstag_fire.html\r\n\r\n*** whistles as he cleans his gun ***","author":"Pissed Off in Ohio","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 06:52:48","modified":"2003-03-13 06:52:48","fileurl":""},{"id":35211,"heading":"Please explain","article":"Please describe these "similarities" in your own words.\r\n\r\nOr is this just some vague, incoherent, angst-driven conspiracy theory that you have clanking around inside your skull?\r\n\r\nDescribe it to me in your own words....","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 07:02:55","modified":"2003-03-13 07:02:55","fileurl":""},{"id":35214,"heading":"As would be obvious to a child of 12","article":"P.O.'ed - as you are probably aware, and I would like to point out for the edification of the gallery, Circus Maximus is trying to waste your time and hoping that you will give him an opening to plant a tinfoil hat on your head.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 07:14:26","modified":"2003-03-13 07:14:26","fileurl":""},{"id":35217,"heading":"Fuck You","article":"I'm done debating this shit with your sorry ass. You will not distract me with your bullshit. And whenever your shift is over and psimon and ba or whoever comes in to take your spot could you please spit in their traitorous face for me, and send my love? Thanks. While you're at it, please eat shit and die.\r\n\r\nAmericans, unite against the tyranny of the Bush administration!!!\r\n\r\nDo not be distracted by their bullshit! The time for debates is done.\r\n\r\nReal Patriots defend their rights!!","author":"Pissed Off In Ohio","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 07:18:26","modified":"2003-03-13 07:18:26","fileurl":""},{"id":35224,"heading":"Yep, keep 'm focused Di","article":"You wouldn't want ol' Ohio to actualy start thinking for himself. Can you do that Ohio? Or are you simply going to keep puking up the party line?\r\n\r\nKeep his anger focused on the bourgeois, Di.\r\n\r\nIt's THEIR fault he can't get a job. It's THEIR fault his children are starving.\r\n\r\nPoint your enlightened finger at T H E M. \r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 07:53:48","modified":"2003-03-13 07:53:48","fileurl":""},{"id":35230,"heading":"Well you're sure as hell not gonna be thinking for me.","article":""Or are you simply going to keep puking up the party line?" HAHAHAHA The idea that YOU would say that to ME is fucking hilarous. Holy christ... you should be doing stand up man.\r\n\r\n"his anger focused on the bourgeois" fuck the bourgwhatever. I could give a rats ass about rich people or their beemers. I'm focused on the bush administration and whoever pulls his\/their strings. And Di who?\r\n\r\nAnd it is their fault I can't get a job. They fucked up the economy so much there are no tech jobs left. Doesn't matter though, i'm not looking nor have I in many years. I am successful at what i do and I wouldn't have it any other way.\r\n\r\n"It's THEIR fault his children are starving." Spare me your information gathering bullshit. If you want to know if i have kids, just ask. No, I don't have any kids. I don't even have a girlfriend (go figure).\r\n\r\n"Point your enlightened finger at T H E M." Well THEY did it. THEY are STILL doing it. IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.\r\n\r\nFuck you. Traitor. You are not an American.","author":"Pissed Off in Ohio","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 08:20:43","modified":"2003-03-13 08:20:43","fileurl":""},{"id":35239,"heading":"Yep","article":">> Holy christ... you should be doing stand up man. \r\n\r\nI get that a lot {shrug}\r\n\r\n>>I'm focused on the bush administration \r\n>>and whoever pulls his\/their strings. \r\n\r\nI'm guessing big Oil's a part of it.\r\n\r\nWhat currency is the ONLY currency that Iraqi oil can be purchase with? - answer the Euro\r\n\r\nWhat's the currency that OPEC trades oil in? - answer the Dollar\r\n\r\nWhat happens if OPEC switches to the Euro - answer\r\nthe Dollar takes a huge nose dive and --on paper--, the U.S. treasury will effectively take on much more debt than this war will cost (on paper).\r\n\r\nThat's what I think this war is really about -\r\nAnd I think it's in our interest to win it.\r\n\r\nI don't think this is about Imperialist expansion - I think it's about holding whatever ground we've still got left.\r\n\r\n>>And Di who? \r\nDiogenes\r\n","author":"MadMaxim","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 08:58:34","modified":"2003-03-13 08:58:34","fileurl":""},{"id":35242,"heading":"I would rather be poor(er)","article":"Than have our government go on a crusade to stave off a depression for an extra few months\/year.\r\n\r\nAnd oil is only part of it. And I don't agree with that part of it at all, but its also (as I'm sure you know), to establish a foothold in the middleeast for further conquest, and to establish the bush mafia's ability to declare war on and invade anyone they feel like. It's also quite possibly to create enough international tension to incite *another* terrorist act against us, for the sake of declaring martial law so bush can avoid an election he could never win fairly.\r\n\r\nAnd I will die fighting that before i roll over and accept this shit. My America will not turn into nazi germany. I would rather be broke and hungry and maintain some shreds of honor and dignity than be on top of the pile, covered in shit and filth, thumbing my nose at the rest of the world as it starves to death.\r\n\r\nAnd you missed my point entirely regard diogenes. No one thinks for me.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nGive me liberty or give me a firearm, I am sick of this shit.","author":"Pissed Off in Ohio","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 09:12:12","modified":"2003-03-13 09:12:12","fileurl":""},{"id":35277,"heading":"British","article":"When will you Americans ever wake up?\r\nWhen will you see the truh of what your country really is doing to our world?\r\nWhen will you realise your cofee and bananas come from child labour?\r\nWhen will you allow another country to do what it wants?(France)\r\n\r\nC'mon then Yanks if we get our gov to say no, c'mon bomb us with your missles, blow me up in the name of McDonalds and exploitation.\r\nC'mon Americans lets start seeing those bombs drop, blowing up kids; what a moral war.\r\n\r\nYou Americans need to wake up, at least read alternative political idealogies, read the Communist Manifesto even if you hate it.\r\n","author":"by British citizen","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 16:24:16","modified":"2003-03-13 16:24:16","fileurl":""},{"id":35278,"heading":"Communist Manifesto?","article":"Who needs to read that? History has much more persuasive\r\nlessons to anyone interested in present trends of power\r\nand wealth and the methods used to advance and protect same.\r\nThis sounds weird to me.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 16:39:54","modified":"2003-03-13 16:39:54","fileurl":""},{"id":35284,"heading":"And of Course Circus Maximus Misrepresented my point","article":"If there is one consistent point in my postings, and there are more than one, it is that I do want people to THINK for themselves. That is why I addressed my comment to P.O.'ed - he is at least asking the right questions. And he seems to be coming at things from what I consider truly patriotic - what is good for the country as a whole not just a corrupt monied elite trying obsessively to protect first their own interests and rationalizing it as being in everybody's interest that they maintain their own personal fiefdoms.\r\n\r\nThat the Government lies has, unfortuanately, become a given. It is no longer speculation or that all purpose phrase used to cut off asking the tough questions - the Scartlet "C" Conspiracy Theory. Ooooooooh! Don't ask questions, shut up, take your Prozac and have another "Bud" Pud.\r\n\r\nI'm not buying and increasingly a lot of other people are not either.\r\n\r\nNever accept anything on Authority. Authorities can be bought - and we live in a day and age where they can be had pretty cheap. \r\n\r\nTake 911 for example. You really have 2 possible views:\r\n\r\nThe Government Story is Correct.\r\n\r\nOr \r\n\r\nThe Government Story is not correct.\r\n\r\nIt is axiomatic in Logic that given 2 mutually contradictory statements the one thing that we can immediately know with certainty is:\r\n\r\nOne or Both are false.\r\n\r\nI could expand on that but I'll leave it for people to think it through on their own.\r\nIt is deceptively simple sounding but it opens a lot of avenues.\r\n\r\nAnother one:\r\n\r\nGeorge Bush had no forewarning of 911.\r\n\r\nOr\r\n\r\nGeorge Bush had advance warning of 911.\r\n\r\nWhich is the true statement?\r\nWhy?\r\n\r\n\r\n911 - WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 17:07:34","modified":"2003-03-13 17:07:34","fileurl":""},{"id":35287,"heading":"Something to think about.","article":"Believe nothing merely because you have been told it.\r\nDo not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher.\r\nBut whatever, after due examination and analysis,\r\nyou find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -\r\nthat doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.\r\n\r\nGautama Siddhartha - the Buddha","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":35167,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-03-13 17:33:24","modified":"2003-03-13 17:33:24","fileurl":""}]}