{"article":{"id":25286,"heading":"Professor Francis A. Boyle calling for preventive impeachment of George W. Bush","author":"ziggy","created":"2003-01-06 02:59:42","modified":"2013-11-10 23:48:02","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:48:02","article":"
\r\n Impeachment due to lies pertaining to one's private member?  High crimes\r\n indeed!  Granted, Clinton was no angel and the Republicans attempted to\r\n take him out on the sex issue because Clinton was nearly as corrupt as the\r\n current Bush gang, and going after anything other than the petty sex issue\r\n would actually cut close to home.\r\n

Today, there's a growing number of people contemplating impeachment\r\n proceedings against George W. Bush and gang.  <\/p>\r\n

Professor Francis A Boyle worked with the late Congressman Henry Gonzalez\r\n to draft impeachment articles against George H. W. Bush.  Now, he's\r\n letting people in Congress know that he's willing to help any of them that\r\n will stand up and enforce the rule of law.  He makes the case that U.S.\r\n is violating international law, particularly the Bush doctrine of preemptive\r\n war, which in his words reads like a Nazi strategy document.  He also\r\n makes the case that the \"Ashcroft police state\" is also grounds for\r\n impeachment.  <\/p>\r\n

Professor Boyle believes there are large numbers of Congress members that\r\n are seriously disturbed about what Bush is intending to do in Iraq, and what\r\n is going on with the nascent police state.  <\/p>\r\n

He's proposing six articles of impeachment.  Listen to the radio show\r\n to learn more.\r\n<\/p><\/div>\r\n

The radio show below comes from http:\/\/www.radio4all.net\/proginfo.php?id=6140  \r\nPicture credit here.<\/p>\r\n

See the bottom right corner for playing or downloading the mp3.<\/p>\r\n\r\n \r\n
\r\n  \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
R.I.S.E.\r\n - Special Edition:
\r\n Preemptive Impeachment<\/b><\/td>\r\n 		Length:<\/b>\r\n 58:00<\/b><\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n \r\n <\/table>\r\n <\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Summary:<\/b><\/td>\r\n Prof. Francis A Boyle calls for the impeachment of Bush, Cheney,\r\n Rumsfeld & Ashcroft. He offers his legal services FREE to any member\r\n of Congress willing to introduce articles of impeachment.<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Featuring:<\/b><\/td>\r\n Prof. Francis A. Boyle, Kellia Ramares<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Type:<\/b><\/td>\r\n Regular Show<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Recorded:<\/b><\/td>\r\n 12\/24\/02<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Recorded At:<\/b><\/td>\r\n Urbana IL, & Oakland CA<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Producer:<\/b><\/td>\r\n Kellia Ramares<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Uploaded\r\n By:<\/b><\/td>\r\n Kellia Ramares<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Uploaded On:<\/b><\/td>\r\n 01\/04\/2003\r\n <\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Keywords:<\/b><\/td>\r\n Boyle, impeachment, Nuremberg, Iraq, war crimes, Ramares, Bush, police\r\n state, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Cheney, war<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Restrictions:<\/b><\/td>\r\n No excerpting\/modifying without permission.
\r\n For non-profit use only.
\r\n See notes.
\r\n <\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
Notes:<\/b><\/td>\r\n \r\n

Please let me know if you run this by emailing kellia@rise4news.net
\r\n
\r\n Self-contained. No anchor script needed.
\r\n For more information in R.I.S.E. and on impeachment, please visit\r\n http:\/\/www.rise4news.net
\r\n <\/p>\r\n <\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n

 \\;<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
Preemptive\r\n Impeachment<\/b><\/td>\r\n Language: English<\/b><\/td>\r\n  <\/b><\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n \r\n <\/table>\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
Seg<\/b><\/td>\r\n Title<\/b><\/td>\r\n Length<\/b><\/td>\r\n File\r\n Info<\/b><\/td>\r\n Download<\/b><\/td>\r\n Play<\/b><\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n
1<\/td>\r\n  <\/td>\r\n 58:00<\/td>\r\n 64 kbps MP3 (26.55 MB)<\/td>\r\n FTP
\r\n HTTP<\/td>\r\n 		Play<\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n \r\n <\/table>\r\n <\/td>\r\n <\/tr>\r\n<\/table>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","summary":"58 minute radio show, mp3 for streaming or download","numcomment":36,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/2003\/01\/willy.jpg","filesize":"24.6 kibibytes","article_url":"\/news\/2003\/01\/25286.php","image":{"original":"\/uploads\/2003\/01\/willy.jpg","small":"\/uploads\/2003\/01\/willy.jpgthumb.jpg"}},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":25290,"heading":"Jan. 18th demo","article":"I assume that Professor Francis A Boyle has contacted former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark about impeachment a strategy to throw a monkey wrench into the rise of a police state and the war on Iraq. Boyle talks about Clark in the interview. \r\n\r\nThe groups organizing the massive January 18 national protest against the war should talk to Boyle, if they haven't already -- to get this impeachment idea at the forefront of the demonstrations. Boyle is on to something. This could be the single best chance to stop the war. Success will not be judged by actual impeachment, but by how the process helps restore some true democracy in our land (and it's beyond the Supreme Court ;-)","author":"ziggy","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-06 04:30:59","modified":"2003-01-06 04:30:59","fileurl":""},{"id":25291,"heading":"Wow! Talk about wishfull thinking!","article":"Henry Gonzalez was one of the heroes\r\nof the house. His likes will not be seen\r\nfor a long time. I remember him trying to\r\nalert the C-Span audience time after time\r\nabout the criminal enterprise going on around\r\nhim. Wasn't he in the JFK motorcade in Dallas?\r\nAfter he warned Jack about the danger he saw\r\nin the trip to the world trade mart?\r\nAsking the other paid stooges to have his stones\r\nis like spitting into a hurricane. Good luck.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-06 05:05:01","modified":"2003-01-06 05:05:01","fileurl":""},{"id":25292,"heading":"yeah, but...","article":"Heck Sheepdog, there's no sense in letting cynicism control our actions. I'm just as cynical as you, I suspect, but there's a real possibility that this whole thing can be one of the more effective focusing points to put pressure on plutocracy gone amuck.\r\n\r\nI would define success as marginal improvement, not actual impeachment. \r\n\r\nFor example, even preventing the use of tactical nuclear weapons is one very material measure of success. If you look at what Daniel Ellsberg is saying these days, here's pounding the table about how the peace movement was the single biggest reason why Nixon didn't use nukes in Indochina. \r\n\r\nUse of nukes today is an extreme example, which makes it easy to prove my argument -- any and all pressure from all sides is a good thing. \r\n\r\nThere's something to be said about how dark it gets before dawn. Power is so out of control in the US that maybe enough good people in power will hear the voice of conscience? There are some segments of the power structure making what the Bush administration could only deem "counterproductive" statements to the press (like some in the CIA saying that the CIA is getting pressure to lie about intelligence reports on Iraq). \r\n\r\nSheepdog, take note from Toto: The Wizard of Oz isn't as powerful as he seems and we can pull back the curtain if we don't let cynicism kill our ability to organize. ","author":"ziggy","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-06 05:30:52","modified":"2003-01-06 05:30:52","fileurl":""},{"id":25293,"heading":"Yes","article":"Forgive my attitude, it\u2019s these times.\r\nI stand corrected. We do need to show some \r\nforce of resistance and impeachment is a good \r\nstart. However, I hold little hope of the\r\ncongress ever showing any moral strength.\r\nWe need to light a real fire under their buts\r\nany way we can. Good luck and I meant it.\r\nSorry about my negative outlook but so far\r\nI ain't been wrong yet. Hoping to be; more than\r\nyou know. I remember the Monty Python \u2018Life of\r\nBrian\u2019 song, \u201c Always Look on The Bright Side of Life\u201d\r\nWhile fixed to the cross.\r\nImpeach, hell; they should hang for treason.\r\nI\u2019ll bring popcorn for everyone even if it bankrupts me.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-06 06:01:09","modified":"2013-11-10 23:48:02","fileurl":""},{"id":25295,"heading":"And then...","article":"We can hang all their toady sycophantic\r\nlackeys on the same gallows.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-06 06:13:05","modified":"2003-01-06 06:13:05","fileurl":""},{"id":25296,"heading":"With...","article":"...good hemp rope.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-06 06:15:49","modified":"2003-01-06 06:15:49","fileurl":""},{"id":25380,"heading":"HOW TO BE A REPORTER","article":"\r\nI'm trying to find out about this Boyle person. I don't want to wait about a DAY downloading a 25 MB file that probably won't download on my connection anyway. \r\n\r\nAn actual reporter would give us some FACTS about Boyle, such as:\r\n\r\n where is he a professor?\r\n\r\n how can we contact him?\r\n\r\n is there a web site associated with this?\r\n\r\nIf you're going to purport to tell the news, actually tell some.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Geeesh","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-08 05:37:25","modified":"2003-01-08 05:37:25","fileurl":""},{"id":25381,"heading":"don't be a rude, a simple question will do","article":"

Normally I do make sure to include contact information and further biographical\r\nmaterial.  I simply forgot to do that with the above.  But it's quite\r\neasy to find that sort of thing.  For example, by simply typing his name\r\ninto google you get the a number of listings (click\r\nhere<\/a> to see them), and that includes on the very first screen, near the\r\nbottom, his official bio page (click\r\nhere<\/a>).<\/p>\r\n

Sorry, but you're tone is pretty darn rude.   You need to think\r\nabout that.  <\/p>\r\n","author":"ziggy","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2003-01-08 06:47:09","modified":"2003-01-08 06:47:09","fileurl":""},{"id":25382,"heading":"by the way","article":"The above is an editorial as far as my comments go, as well as a pointer to news -- a radio interview found elsewhere, and for which I provided full citation. You are not only snide, but you incorrectly classify my article, demonstrating your journalism savvy.\r\n\r\nYou're correct. I should have provided biographical information or a link to his bio in the original article. For that I apologize. ","author":"ziggy","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-08 06:56:09","modified":"2003-01-08 06:56:09","fileurl":""},{"id":25385,"heading":"more info","article":"

R.I.S.E. added a web page about Boyle's radio interview after I wrote the\r\neditorial above.  There's not much there at the moment, but perhaps it will be\r\nupdated later.  You can visit that page by clicking\r\nhere<\/a>.<\/p>\r\n

The R.I.S.E. radio show is an internet-only show,\r\nand Kellia Ramares uploads the mp3 files to radio4all<\/a>\r\noften (use the search engine there), and it's streamed elsewhere.  You can look at the R.I.S.E.\r\nwebsite.<\/a>  Ramares works with KPFA, but to the best of my knowledge\r\nR.I.S.E. is entirely her brainchild and 100% independent.<\/p>","author":"ziggy","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2003-01-08 07:41:49","modified":"2003-01-08 07:41:49","fileurl":""},{"id":25419,"heading":"Simple","article":"http:\/\/www.law.uiuc.edu\/faculty\/DirectoryResult.asp?Name=Boyle,%20Francis\r\n\r\nHere is the information you were looking for concerning Professor Boyle.","author":"Simple Simon","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-08 21:17:38","modified":"2003-01-08 21:17:38","fileurl":""},{"id":25457,"heading":"Standard sized web banner","article":"

If you have a website and want a standard banner to use on it, this one comes\r\nfrom the Houston Independent Media\r\nCenter<\/a>.  You can click to this page, the R.I.S.E.\r\nImpeachment page<\/a>, or what have you.<\/p>

<\/p>","author":"Houston","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2003-01-09 10:16:30","modified":"2003-01-09 10:16:30","fileurl":""},{"id":25459,"heading":"Preemptive impeachment","article":"\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<\/head>\r\n\r\n

Preemptive\r\nimpeachment
\r\n<\/b><\/font>Law\r\nprofessor stands ready to draft articles for any member of the House<\/i><\/b><\/font><\/p>\r\n

By\r\nK\u00e9llia Ramares
\r\n<\/b><\/font>Online\r\nJournal Contributing Editor<\/font><\/p>\r\n

http:\/\/www.onlinejournal.com\/Special_Reports\/Ramares010403\/ramares010403.html<\/a>\r\n<\/p>\r\n

While\r\nthe United States will constantly strive to enlist the support of the\r\ninternational community, we will not hesitate to act alone, if necessary, to\r\nexercise our right of self defense by acting preemptively against such\r\nterrorists, to prevent them from doing harm against our people and our country .\r\n. .<\/i><\/font><\/p>\r\n

\u2014The\r\nNational Security Strategy of the United States of America<\/font><\/p>\r\n

January\r\n4, 2002\u2014"We sentenced Nazi leaders to death for waging a war of\r\naggression," says International Law Professor Francis A. Boyle of the\r\nUniversity of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. By contrast, Prof. Boyle wants merely\r\nto impeach George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft for\r\ntheir plans to invade Iraq and create a police state in America.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Boyle\r\nis offering his services as counsel, free of charge, to any member of the House\r\nof Representatives willing to sponsor articles of impeachment. He is experienced\r\nin this work, having undertaken it in 1991 for the late Rep. Henry B. Gonzalez\r\n(D-TX), in an effort to stop the first Persian Gulf War. It takes only one\r\nmember to introduce articles of impeachment. Of course, it will take many more\r\nthan that to vote for impeachment, which will culminate in a trial in the\r\nSenate. Boyle is confident that, once the articles are introduced, others,\r\nincluding Republicans, will co-sponsor them. But we <\/i>have to convince our\r\nRepresentatives that impeachment is necessary for the country and politically\r\nsafe for them. This non-violent, constitutional process may be our best way of\r\nstopping World War III and saving our civil rights.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Grounds\r\nfor<\/b> Impeachment<\/b><\/font><\/p>\r\n

Article\r\nII Sec. 4 of the Constitution states that: "The President, Vice President\r\nand all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on\r\nImpeachment for and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and\r\nMisdemeanors." Boyle says that waging a war of aggression is a crime under\r\nthe Nuremberg Charter, Judgment and <\/i><\/font>Principles<\/font><\/a>.<\/font><\/i>\r\n"It's very clear," he adds, "if you read all the press reports,\r\nthey are going to devastate Baghdad, a metropolitan area of 5 million people.\r\nThe Nuremberg Charter clearly says the wanton devastation of a city is a\r\nNuremberg war crime."<\/font><\/p>\r\n

The\r\nUnited States is a party to the Nuremberg Charter, Judgment and Principles,<\/i>\r\nand thus is constitutionally bound to obey them. "The Constitution, in\r\nArticle 6, says that international treaties are the supreme law of the land here\r\nin the United States of America. So all we would be doing here, in this\r\nimpeachment campaign," Boyle says, "is impeaching them for violating\r\ninternational treaties, as incorporated into the United States Constitution, as\r\nwell as the Constitution itself."<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Bush\r\nCabal Repudiates<\/b> Nuremberg Principles<\/b><\/font><\/p>\r\n

We\r\ndon't have to wait for the devastation of Baghdad to impeach the Bush cabal\r\nbecause they have already repudiated the Nuremberg Charter via the so-called\r\nBush Doctrine of preventive war and pre-emptive attack. "This doctrine of\r\npre-emptive warfare or pre-emptive attack was rejected soundly in the <\/b>Nuremberg\r\nJudgment, " Boyle says. "The Nuremberg Judgment . . . rejected this\r\nNazi doctrine of international law of alleged self-defense." The Bush\r\nDoctrine, embodied in the <\/font>National\r\nSecurity Strategy document<\/font><\/a>,\r\npublished on the White House web site,<\/i> is appalling, Boyle says. "It\r\nreads like a Nazi planning document prior to the Second World War."<\/font><\/p>\r\n

The\r\nFruit Doesn't Fall Far From the Tree<\/b><\/font><\/p>\r\n

As\r\nRep. Henry B. Gonzalez explained on the floor of the House in 1991, his articles\r\ncharged the elder Bush with:<\/font><\/p>\r\n

1)\r\nViolating the Equal Protection Clause by having minorities and poor whites, who\r\nwere the majority of the soldiers in the Middle East, "fight a war for oil\r\nto preserve the lifestyles of the wealthy."<\/font><\/p>\r\n

2)\r\nViolating "the Constitution, Federal law, and the UN Charter by bribing,\r\nintimidating, and threatening others, including the members of the UN Security\r\nCouncil, to support belligerent acts against Iraq."<\/font><\/p>\r\n

3)\r\nViolating the Nuremberg principles by conspiring to engage in a massive war\r\nagainst Iraq that would cause tens of thousands of civilian deaths.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

4)\r\nCommitting "the United States to acts of war without congressional consent\r\nand contrary to the UN Charter and international law." (This refers to the\r\nlack of a formal declaration of war, as required by the Constitution).<\/font><\/p>\r\n

5)\r\nCommitting crimes against the peace by leading the United States into aggressive\r\nwar against Iraq, in violation of Article 24 of the UN Charter, the Nuremberg\r\nCharter, other international instruments and treaties, and the Constitution of\r\nthe United States.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Boyle\r\nbelieves that the articles he drafted for Gonzalez' effort to impeach George H.\r\nW. Bush, the father, could still serve as a basis for impeaching George W. Bush,\r\nthe son.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Are\r\nthe People Ready for Another Impeachment?<\/b><\/font><\/p>\r\n

Impeachment\r\nhas the advantage of bypassing the U.S. Supreme Court, which illegally installed\r\nBush in the Oval Office. The same "Justices" would have the final word\r\non legal challenges to constitutional abominations, such as the USA PATRIOT Act\r\nand the Homeland Security Act, both of which the White House rammed through a\r\nCongress frightened by the September 11th<\/sup> attacks and the as yet\r\nunsolved anthrax attacks on Capitol Hill.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

But\r\nno matter how blatant the violations of constitutional, statutory and\r\ninternational law are, impeachment is still a political process. Republicans\r\ncontrol the Congress and many Democrats, fearful of being labeled "soft on\r\nterrorism" might be unwilling to challenge the Bush cabal. It would take\r\ntremendous public pressure to get a reluctant Congress to impeach. Still, Boyle\r\nthinks he can garner public support by adding an article of impeachment against\r\nJohn Ashcroft.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

 "We\r\nknow for a fact that there are Republicans and Democrats and Independents and\r\nGreens, even very conservative Republicans, such as Dick Armey and [Bob] Barr,\r\nwho are very worried about a police state." Boyle says that an article\r\nagainst Ashcroft would make clear "that we don't want a police state in the\r\nname of an oil empire."<\/font><\/p>\r\n

It's\r\nUp to Us<\/b><\/font><\/p>\r\n

Unfortunately\r\nfor the impeachment campaign, Armey has retired and Barr, who spoke out against\r\nsome of the most draconian proposals for what eventually became the USA PATRIOT\r\nAct, was defeated in the Republican primary. Boyle is still waiting for the one\r\nmember of Congress willing to introduce articles of impeachment when the 108th<\/sup>\r\nCongress convenes on January 7.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Since\r\nBush has indicated that he is not likely to go to war before the end of January\r\nor early February, Boyle thinks we have a month to stop the war by impeaching\r\nthe chain of command: Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, along with police state\r\nenforcer Ashcroft. Time and the Internet are advantages Rep. Gonzalez did not\r\nhave in 1991, when the Persian Gulf War was launched the day after he introduced\r\nhis articles.<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Boyle\r\nis asking the public to push for impeachment in two ways. First, <\/font>contact\r\nyour own member of Congress<\/font><\/a>\r\nto urge him or her to introduce articles of impeachment, and tell the member\r\nthat he or she may <\/font>contact\r\nProf. Boyle<\/font><\/a>\r\nfor assistance in drafting the articles. Second, demand impeachment by engaging\r\nin non-violent direct action, in exercise of your First Amendment rights to free\r\nspeech, peaceable assembly and petition for redress of grievances. Boyle was\r\npleased that 100,000 people marched around the White House last October 26 to\r\nprotest the impending war on Iraq. But he says one million<\/i> people need to\r\npeaceably take to the streets with signs, banners and voices shouting,\r\n"Impeach Bush!"<\/font><\/p>\r\n

 "The\r\nbottom line: it's really up to you and to me to enforce the law and the\r\nConstitution against our own government," he says. "We are citizens of\r\nthe United States of America. We have to act to preserve the republic that we\r\nhave, to preserve our Constitution, to preserve a rule of law. This is our\r\nresponsibility as citizens. We simply can't pass the buck and say 'Oh, some\r\njudge is going to do it somewhere.' It's up to us to keep this republic."<\/font><\/p>\r\n

Copyright\r\n\u00a9 2003 K\u00e9llia Ramares. For fair use only.<\/i><\/font><\/p>\r\n

Listen\r\nto K\u00e9llia Ramares' full interview of Prof. Francis Boyle at <\/i><\/font>R.I.S.E.\r\n- Radio Internet Story Exchange<\/font><\/a>.\r\nAlso, <\/font><\/i>shop\r\nthe R.I.S.E. online store<\/font><\/a>\r\nfor impeachment paraphernalia.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\r\n","author":"K\u00e9llia Ramares","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2003-01-09 11:25:14","modified":"2026-10-25 17:02:53","fileurl":""},{"id":25464,"heading":"Simple","article":"\u201cGrounds for Impeachment\r\nArticle II Sec. 4 of the Constitution states that: "The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Boyle says that waging a war of aggression is a crime under the Nuremberg Charter, Judgment and Principles. "It's very clear," he adds, "if you read all the press reports, they are going to devastate Baghdad, a metropolitan area of 5 million people. The Nuremberg Charter clearly says the wanton devastation of a city is a Nuremberg war crime."\r\nThe United States is a party to the Nuremberg Charter, Judgment and Principles, and thus is constitutionally bound to obey them. "The Constitution, in Article 6, says that international treaties are the supreme law of the land here in the United States of America. So all we would be doing here, in this impeachment campaign," Boyle says, "is impeaching them for violating international treaties, as incorporated into the United States Constitution, as well as the Constitution itself."\u201d\r\n\r\nA little problem, here. Who is waging a \u201cwar of aggression\u201d? The United Nations granted Iraq a cessation of hostilities based upon certain stipulations. In UN resolution 688, the United Nations called upon all member nations to do whatever they could to end the massacre of Kurds and Shiite Muslims by the freshly-defeated Iraqi army. The United States and England established the "no fly" zones to protect these populations,and to aid in the humanitarian effort to these populations. Iraq responded by attacking allied aircraft, and continues to attack them to this day. This is an act of war, and a violation of the agreement made with the UN. Essentially, the Gulf War is back on. This being the case, the learned professor can now return to arguing that Hawaii should be freed from the United States.\r\n","author":"Simple Simon","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-09 16:33:05","modified":"2013-11-10 23:48:03","fileurl":""},{"id":25474,"heading":"unfortunately","article":"The US\/UK have muddled even the original "intent" of the no fly zones" - a means to protect Iraqi Kurds (in the north) and Iraq’s Shi’a population (in the south), However, that has not been the case.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.globalpolicy.org\/security\/issues\/iraq\/flyindex.htm\r\nhttp:\/\/www.ccmep.org\/2002_articles\/Iraq\/122202_casualties_of_an.htm\r\n","author":"Marc","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-09 19:18:28","modified":"2003-01-09 19:18:28","fileurl":""},{"id":25476,"heading":"Simple","article":"Regardless of the subsequent use of the No Fly zones, Marc, their establisment was in compliance with and approved by the United Nations. The United Nations has never asked that they cease to be enforced. The Iraqi's violation of these zones and repeated attacks on Allied aircraft are acts of war which render null and void the cease fire agreement. No "aggresive war" is being launched. ","author":"Simple Simon","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-09 19:34:17","modified":"2003-01-09 19:34:17","fileurl":""},{"id":25477,"heading":"To a point","article":"I can understand you line of thinking, Simon. But i think this all stems from a failure in US policy all the way back to the first Gulf War (or at least the start of the war which has never really ended). I was in agreement with US and international retalitation against Iraq after they invaded Kuwait. I strongly feel that those were acts of aggression and that it was a failure of the US, UN, and international community to not remove Saddam Hussein at that time for his basic anschluss, or direct invasion of a foreign and internationally recognized sovereign nation. That should be recognized universally since WWII. however, that opens up the window on other countries, including the US, who have invaded (sometimes legitimately, sometims not) sovereign nations since WWII. The no fly zones were irrelevant when the US\/UK allowed Turkey to bomb Kurdish villages in Northern Iraq. \r\nhttp:\/\/www.geocities.com\/CapitolHill\/Senate\/7891\/us_alow_turk_kurd.html\r\nhttp:\/\/www.workers.org\/ww\/kurdsbombed.html\r\nhttp:\/\/kurdistan.org\/Washington\/washburn5.html\r\n\r\nGiven the duplistic nature by which the American government has handled and continues to handle the Kurds, the argument of our "protecting" the Kurds is moot. A more succint observation would be that we are protecting the land for ourselves and\/or Turkey.","author":"Marc","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-09 20:04:49","modified":"2003-01-09 20:04:49","fileurl":""},{"id":25479,"heading":"FICTION","article":"Quoting Simon:\r\n\r\n"Regardless of the subsequent use of the No Fly zones, Marc, their establisment was in compliance with and approved by the United Nations"\r\n\r\nThis is absolutely false. The UN NEVER approved of, or voted on, the establishment of No Fly Zones. They were a unilateral creation of the US and supported by Britian.\r\n\r\nThe No Fly Zones are there to allow the US access to territory for a future invasion, as well as to run near daily bombing raids over Iraq in order to provoke a response. It is very similar to the Gulf of Tonkin incident the US provoked and then fabricated prior to the Vietnam war.\r\n\r\nFrom Eat The State:\r\n\r\n"The no-fly zones are not sanctioned by the U.N., but were created unilaterally by the U.S., Great Britain, and France in 1991 under the pretext of protecting the Kurds in the north of Iraq and the Shiites in the south. But in 1996, France pulled out of the coalition, citing its belief that the U.S. ultimately has no humanitarian intentions in enforcing the no-fly zones. Recently, our staunch ally, Turkey--which is allowing us to use its runways and air bases--has also criticized the daily bombing runs. Even the New York Times admits that the no-fly zones are a sham: "In fact, no U.N. resolution created the restricted zones." (NYT 2\/25\/99) Further, the U.S. Air Force has a clear policy of not allowing its pilots to come under significant danger of attack in the no-fly zones: whenever a plane is targeted by radar, U.S. fighter jets immediately and thoroughly destroy the suspected radar site--and numerous other targets--in a retaliation that's completely out of proportion to the "crime."\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/eatthestate.org\/03-25\/BombsAway.htm\r\n\r\n\r\n000","author":"000","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-09 21:10:14","modified":"2003-01-09 21:10:14","fileurl":""},{"id":25489,"heading":"Where is Hanibal, now that we need him?","article":"\u2018Our\u2019 Government.\r\nWho the hell do they think they represent?\r\nYes, this dangerous, provocative and downright hostile action\r\nis typical of the belligerent attitudes expressed before the start of WWII . The apologists will say that \u2018democracy now exists\u2019 in these\r\ncountries. Japan, Germany The Soviet people and all the other\r\ndirect recipients of death unleashed on non combatants might\r\nsay the price was too damn high..\r\nWe sure were lucky.\r\nDon\u2019t ever count on luck. Or Power.\r\nWe too can be \u2018touched\u2019 it wouldn\u2019t take much in this tinderbox of technology and delicate support structures ( look at the medical and transportation logistics involved in maintaining a civil society \r\nunder a single one of a number of weak links being destroyed) such as food, power and communications upon which we\r\n depend, to create real problems. Will the sheep be stampeded \r\ninto martial law and a future of surveillance and \u2018proactive\u2019\r\nresponse?\r\nShall we allow the military into the gates of Rome?\r\nOld problems.\r\nOld Solutions. ","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-10 00:38:28","modified":"2013-11-10 23:48:03","fileurl":""},{"id":25491,"heading":"Oh yes..","article":"Forgive me for forgetting China, Philippines, Vietnam...\r\nToo much blood, while \u2018leaders\u2019 strings were pulled\r\nand much profit was made.\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-10 01:07:28","modified":"2013-11-10 23:48:03","fileurl":""},{"id":25527,"heading":"Simple","article":"000, you are half right. The No Fly zones were created unilaterally by the United States, Britain, and France. Shouldn't that properly be trilaterally? Anyway, they did so in compliance with and with the approval of the UN. The UN asked that it's member nations to do whatever they could to help end the suffering caused by the Iraqi army (which was bad at wars against armies, but real good at killing women and children). If the UN didn't like the establishment of the No Fly zones, why haven't they condemned them or asked that they be removed? Hmm, that's a mystery.","author":"Simple Simon","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-10 17:24:33","modified":"2003-01-10 17:24:33","fileurl":""},{"id":25532,"heading":"to some extent","article":"The intent was to protect the humanitarian works for the impoverished and attacked Kurds in the north. Attakcs on US\/UK aircraft are not, despite administration claims, a material breach of UN resolution.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/Iraq\/Story\/0,2763,843667,00.html","author":"Marc","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-10 18:53:07","modified":"2003-01-10 18:53:07","fileurl":""},{"id":25533,"heading":"not down with impeachment","article":"Worrying about impeaching bush is a waste of time. If we are going to get him out of office, do it through elections. Work on building up democratic systems, not heirarchical courts that priveledge lawyers and judges and end up with everyone being really pissed off.","author":"time management","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-10 18:57:32","modified":"2003-01-10 18:57:32","fileurl":""},{"id":25535,"heading":"Not so much time, as resources","article":"I do agree with the premise of doing it "through elections..." and "...building up democratic systems, not heirarchical courts," but would not the attempt at bringing up impeachment (and the reasons for it) bring into the mainstream most of the issues regular Americans are unfamiliar with? Regardless of the outcome (and I seriously doubt a sitting President in today's politics could be impeaced), would that not be worth the effort?","author":"Marc","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-10 19:14:05","modified":"2003-01-10 19:14:05","fileurl":""},{"id":25576,"heading":"name changed to resource management","article":"Time is a very valuable resource, that along with money should not be wasted. Any good ol' American campaign would be able to get out as much filth as possible. What sort of info couldn't be let out in a free-for all media mud fight that could be let out in court?","author":"time management","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-11 05:21:26","modified":"2003-01-11 05:21:26","fileurl":""},{"id":25599,"heading":"time\/resource management","article":"A good point. Time is, indeed, a very valuable resource. And it would be great to see some of these issues brought up in main stream media. But they (especially in America) are inherently commercial entities, so it has to sell, and someone has to pay for it. I think the problem, unfortunately, is that it is essentially political suicide for someone to run a campaign platform on this issue, at least at present. Entering it into historical record and legal court briefs, documents, and proceedings would be absorbed into case law and posterity, if not findings and prosecution (highly unlikely, but plausible).","author":"Marc","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-11 17:19:21","modified":"2003-01-11 17:19:21","fileurl":""},{"id":25821,"heading":"anyone see impeach signs at the protest?","article":"just curious","author":"jenny","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-13 18:00:27","modified":"2003-01-13 18:00:27","fileurl":""},{"id":25936,"heading":"impeach signs?","article":"I don't remember seeing any "Impeach" signs at the march, but there were plenty of the "Fuck Bush," "He's not my President," variety. I think impeachment sounds very romantic to those of us that despise him, but we would need democrats to stand up for this, and they've proven of late that they can't stand up for much. When Clinton was impeached the great Republican borg block stood up, together, unwavering.","author":"cass71898","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-13 23:44:47","modified":"2003-01-13 23:44:47","fileurl":""},{"id":26643,"heading":"Flashpoints","article":"\r\nFlashpoints had Professor Boyle on today. The archive isn't working just yet, but hopefully it'll play at some point:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.flashpoints.net\/","author":"ziggy","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-01-19 03:34:59","modified":"2003-01-19 03:34:59","fileurl":""},{"id":29156,"heading":"Professor","article":" Regarding the "glowing" report on Bush:\r\n NEVER have we had a more inept president than this thief who STOLE the election of 2000\r\nby running to the Supreme Court who handed him the presidency after committing treason by halting the counting of votes in Florida.His brother Jeb and Katherine Harris also committed crimes(still unpunished) by preventing lawful citizens from voting.\r\n The CRUX of the whole problem stems from this FACT. Since then,this bungling Idiot,in his arrogant manner,has proceeded to ruin our economy,acting like a gunslinger by initiating a DANGEROUS POLICY of preemptive strike against a nation who is NOT threatening us.\r\n NOTHING short of impeachment of G.W. Bush will solev the problem.\r\n","author":"John Delevoryas","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-02-16 00:29:25","modified":"2003-02-16 00:29:25","fileurl":""},{"id":29160,"heading":"The Charge is Treason","article":"The only official Oath of Office for any official of the government contained in the U.S. Constitution is the Presidential Oath of Office. \r\n\r\nIt reads:\r\n\r\n\u201cI do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.\u201d\r\n\r\nBy the acts of signing the \u201cPatriot Act\u201d which violates the 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 10th Amendments to the Constitution (The Bill of Rights) George W. Bush knowingly and willfully violated his Presidential Oath of Office, and stands condemned by his own words stating that he would let the Courts sort it out. His Administration submitted the bill and then without allowing time for a full reading or debate pressured Congress to pass the bill.\r\n\r\nHe is in undisputed violation of his sacred Trust. He should be Impeached, Tried in the Senate, and vacated from Office.\r\n\r\nHe should the be Tried for Treason.\r\n\r\nThe above line of reasoning would also apply in a second charge relating to the Homeland Security Act.\r\n\r\nWe can only speculate on his culpability in other crimes but I would point out that he has actively obstructed the investigation into the events of 9-11.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-02-16 02:24:58","modified":"2013-11-10 23:48:34","fileurl":""},{"id":29167,"heading":"A little bit Pregnant","article":"Certainly Clinton was execrable and should have been removed from office, but it has no bearing on the current matter.\r\n\r\nEither he stands in violation or he does not. There is no middle ground. There is no \u201ca little bit pregnant\u201d when it comes to Constitutional responsibilities.\r\n\r\nAnd ignorance is no excuse.","author":"Diogenes","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2003-02-16 02:37:10","modified":"2013-11-10 23:48:34","fileurl":""},{"id":29168,"heading":"Treason...","article":"...and murder.\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":25286,"mime_type":"image\/gif","created":"2003-02-16 02:37:33","modified":"2005-08-15 01:07:09","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/02\/bdi.gifzo3edd.gif","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2003\/02\/bdi.gifzo3edd.gif"}}]}