{"article":{"id":21969,"heading":"us prefers extrajudicial kilings","author":"brian","created":"2002-11-09 05:33:47","modified":"2002-11-10 04:59:36","last_modified":"Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:59:36","article":"

Zap! Pow! The bad guys are dead. And they never knew what hit them. Living his presidency like Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan, George Bush etched another notch in his gun butt this week, blowing away six \"terrorists\" in Yemen's desert. Their car was incinerated by a Hellfire missile, fired by a CIA unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) or drone. Dealing out death via remote-controlled flying robots could be the spooks' salvation after the September 11 and Afghan intelligence flops. It makes the agency look useful. It is quick and bodybag-free. It is new wave hi-tech, a 21st century equivalent of James Bond's Aston Martin. And the hit had full authority, right from the top, judging by Mr Bush's comments. The president is keen on hunting down America's foes, on the ugly old premise that the only good Injun is a dead Injun. For redskin, read al-Qaida. It is part, he says, of his anti-terrorist war-without-end. All the world's a battlefield for Mr Bush. The United States of America, 001: licensed to kill.

Zap! Ping! Even as the bullets ricochet, it should be said there are some problems with this approach to international peacekeeping. For a start, it is illegal. The Yemen attack violates basic rules of sovereignty. It is an act of war where no war has been declared. It killed people, some of whom who may have been criminals, but who will never now face trial. It assassinated men who may have been planning attacks. But who can tell? It is, at best, irresponsible extra-judicial killing, at worst a premeditated, cold-blooded murder of civilians. And it is also, and this is no mere afterthought, morally unsustainable. Those who authorised this act have some serious ethical as well as legal questions to answer. That there is no prospect at all that they will, and no insistence by Britain or others that they do so, only renders ever more appalling the moral pit which gapes and beckons.

Zap! Crunch! So where next for the drones of death? What about Georgia or Turkey, where shady Chechens lurk? Russia would approve. Lebanon, Iran, or Gaza, as rehearsed by Israel's gunships? Or Finsbury Park perhaps? How would that feel? Stateless, gangster terrorism is a fearsome scourge. But state-sponsored terrorism is a greater evil, for it is waged by those who should know better, who are duty-bound to address causes not mere symptoms, who may claim to act in the people's name. As Alexander Herzen said in another age of struggle: \"We are not the doctors. We are the disease.\"

http:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/usa\/story\/0<\/a>,12271,834306,00.html<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"if the dead were CIA men, dn the killles were al-quaeda, this weld be called a terrorist act","numcomment":22,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2002\/11\/21969.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":21980,"heading":"A violation of sovereignty?","article":"No. . . The government Yemen wants to get rid of these scumbags too!\r\n\r\n From CNN: \r\n\r\nRumsfeld said the U.S.-Yemen relationship "has been a good one and it's ongoing." He noted that Yemen's President Ali Abdullah Saleh visited the Pentagon and agreed to cooperate in the war on terrorism. \r\n\r\n"As a result, we have some folks in that country that have been working with the government and helping them think through ways of doing things," Rumsfeld said.\r\n\r\nWhy is it so hard for you to believe that the people of Yemen want US help getting rid of these sob's??","author":"T-Mex","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 12:09:49","modified":"2002-11-09 12:09:49","fileurl":""},{"id":21989,"heading":"Solution","article":"Everyone T. Mex, Bush Admirer, Myself and everyone\r\nelse should be able to kill anyone anytime with these\r\nthings. What a wonderful world it would be.","author":"interested","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 16:01:16","modified":"2002-11-09 16:01:16","fileurl":""},{"id":21990,"heading":"Hmmm. . .","article":"I didn't say that. . . BA didn't say that. . . are you a member of NORML or something?","author":"T-Mex","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 16:35:31","modified":"2002-11-09 16:35:31","fileurl":""},{"id":21992,"heading":"Right-wing Fascists","article":"For T-Mex and Bush Admirer:\r\n\r\nYour kind would have done well in Nazi Germany or today in Sharon's Israel. Remember, there will be war crime tribunals for you pathetic warmongers. \r\n\r\nSo T-Mex believes that armed intervention by a foreign nation is perfectly legitimate whenever any two-bit dictator (read 'Dubya') decides he doesn't like the way someone thinks. Does that mean the Russians could send drones into America to go after enemies of their country? What would Bush say to that? How about China? Should China be able to send robots and drones into the U.S. to eliminate the Falun Gung?\r\n\r\nThere is a document called the U.N. Charter which SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS intervening in the internal affairs of other nations. But I guess dictators never really care much for rules of law, now do they?\r\n\r\nRemember Mussolini and Hitler? How about Pol Pot? Add George W. Bush to that list.","author":"Slacker65","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 16:50:10","modified":"2002-11-09 16:50:10","fileurl":""},{"id":22006,"heading":"Amnesty Questions U.S. Over Yemen Strike","article":"Amnesty Questions U.S. Over Yemen Strike \r\n \r\nNovember 08, 2002 12:01 PM ET \r\n\r\n\r\n(Reuters) - Human rights group Amnesty International wrote to President Bush on Friday to question Washington's role in a missile attack on al Qaeda suspects in Yemen. \r\n\r\nSix men suspected of membership of the militant Islamic network died in a car blast on Sunday that the United States said was due to a missile fired from an unmanned CIA aircraft. \r\n\r\n"If this was the deliberate killing of suspects in lieu of arrest, in circumstances in which they did not pose an immediate threat, the killings would be extra-judicial executions in violation of international human rights law," the London-based rights group said in a statement. \r\n\r\n"The United States should issue a clear and unequivocal statement that it will not sanction extra-judicial executions." \r\n\r\nThe attack, which the U.S defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, termed "a highly successful tactical operation," killed a leading suspect in the bombing of U.S. destroyer Cole two years ago. Seventeen U.S sailors died in the explosion in Aden. \r\n\r\nWashington blames Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network for the September 11 attacks on the United States as well as the Cole attack. \r\n\r\nA Yemeni official told Reuters on Thursday one of the six suspects killed was a U.S. national, which the United States said it could not confirm, and all six were "dangerous" members of al Qaeda. \r\n\r\nAmnesty said in Friday's statement it had also asked Yemen to clarify whether it had any prior knowledge of the attack. The Pentagon has praised the Yemeni government for cooperating with the United States. ","author":"Reuters","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 17:15:29","modified":"2002-11-09 17:15:29","fileurl":""},{"id":22011,"heading":"yeah","article":"yeah and the israeli's are doing such a bang up job aren't they? extra judicial assasinations have been really effective...in ensuring more terrorist attacks!","author":"prole","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 17:22:16","modified":"2002-11-09 17:22:16","fileurl":""},{"id":22015,"heading":"After the obligatory","article":"Nazi reference. . . \r\n\r\nSlackers post goes down hill from there.\r\n\r\nWhat has happened here is that a group of illegal combatants , responsible for a murderous act of sabotage and terror, were targetted and eliminated with the assistance and cooperation of another nation, Yemen.\r\n\r\nThese guys didn't rob a liquor store. . . they participated in an act of war against the United States. The suggestion that they should be hauled before a jury is laughable.\r\n\r\nAs is the suggestion that this violates the UN charter. Yemen has been cooperating with the US in tracking down and killing these sob's (something which not even the American Left has been willing to do!).\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"T-Mex","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 17:39:23","modified":"2002-11-09 17:39:23","fileurl":""},{"id":22016,"heading":"Myopic View","article":"Bush Admirer,\r\n\r\nYour thinking on this matter is of little importance. Bush needs that Iraqi oil, and has obtained the French, Russian, and Chinese vote in the UN Security Council by promising them each a share of the war spoils. Get a clue.\r\n\r\nYou've never met me, so how would you know what name is apppropriate for me?\r\n\r\nAs an above response noted, when you bomb people and torment them, it usually just makes things around the globe worse. War is not the answer to the world's problems. Peace is.","author":"Slacker65","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 17:42:53","modified":"2002-11-09 17:42:53","fileurl":""},{"id":22020,"heading":"Simple","article":"War is the answer to a lot of problems. You'll notice how well behaved the Japanese have been since 1945. ","author":"Simple Simon","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 17:54:40","modified":"2002-11-09 17:54:40","fileurl":""},{"id":22023,"heading":"Fascism, T-Mex style","article":"T-Mex,\r\n\r\nYou said,\r\n\r\n 'a group of illegal combatants , responsible for a murderous act of sabotage and terror...' \r\n\r\nDo you mean the CIA?\r\n\r\nAlso,\r\n\r\n'...they participated in an act of war against the United States. '\r\n\r\nYou have proof of their actions? Let's see it! We will never know what they did now. They have already been tried, convicted and executed by the CIA.\r\n\r\n'The suggestion that they should be hauled before a jury is laughable.'\r\n\r\nYeah, petty little simpletons like yourself never want to see a fair trial. That would be too much like right. Or too much like real justice. But assassinations are OK, as long as you're not a white male Republican. Shoot first, ask questions later? Am I correct in about your philosphy?\r\n\r\nFinally, you whine:\r\n\r\n'As is the suggestion that this violates the UN charter. Yemen has been cooperating with the US in tracking down and killing these sob's (something which not even the American Left has been willing to do!). \r\n\r\nOh yeah, Yemen is the height of principle on this one, G. And if Yemen was tracking them, why didn't they arrest them? Why didn't the Yemenis kill them? Don't they rule their own country? Or are they a puppet of the imperialist US of A? As far as 'Lefties' not 'tracking down and killing' people: how is this at odds with liberal philosphy? So were not blood-thirsty armchair warriors. What's the problem?\r\n","author":"Slacker65","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 17:59:57","modified":"2002-11-09 17:59:57","fileurl":""},{"id":22025,"heading":"Bad Taste","article":"Bush Sychophant,\r\n\r\nQuoting your own post is really egotistical. How about an objective source? Go to MSNBC (who are not objective, but obviously are more open-minded then yourself). There is an article today on the underlying oil policy guiding the Bush war effort. Many other more liberal sources have already made the correlation between the Bush policy and the Big Oil corps desires.\r\n\r\nWhy aren't we threatening North Korea, which has ADMITTED having nuclear (sorry, 'nucular' for Dubya fans) weapons? Iraq denies having weapons of wup ass proportions, and we threaten to attack them. North Korea admits it and we negotiate. What's the difference? ALL THAT OIL!!!","author":"Slacker65","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 18:10:29","modified":"2002-11-09 18:10:29","fileurl":""},{"id":22040,"heading":"is that what they teach you in the military","article":"you'll notice how well behaved the germans were after world war 1. or how the israelis and palestininians keep blowing the shit out of each other in acts of retaliation. just look at what 40 years of the cold war taught the russians about chechnya. three Indo-pakistani wars with one in the making, three punic wars. the list goes on. actually, if you think war is the answer for war then take a step back and look at the whole of human history. i think you might change your mind. ","author":"prole","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 19:22:35","modified":"2002-11-09 19:22:35","fileurl":""},{"id":22058,"heading":"Simple","article":"There is no peace without victory. After WWII, Germany and Japan were soundly defeated. Since that time, they haven't lifted a finger to flick a fly, despite generations of warrior culture.\r\n\r\nIn WWI, Germany was not beaten to the point of surrender. The fact that the Allies decided to press for an armistice instead of pushing for unconditional surrender resulted in the germ of the idea that Germany's armies had been 'stabbed in the back' by unscrupulous politicians. The lack of prosecuting the war to an indisputable end resulted in the backlash that facilitated WWII.\r\n\r\nDecisive war solves problems, and brings real peace. The 'peace' you profess is actually appeasement.\r\n\r\n","author":"Simple Simon","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 21:35:45","modified":"2002-11-09 21:35:45","fileurl":""},{"id":22063,"heading":"don't speak too soon","article":"german militarism is not dead yet. look at the expanding expenditure of the german armed forces. ironically enough, and this should teach something to american greens, this has occured fastest under the SPD-Green coalition government than under 16 years of conservative rule. they're deployed in 16 different nations. Germany is also one of the foremost proponents of a militarily independent europe. and while this can hardly be compared to the aggression of world war II, it does not rule out a repetition of it. germany has become one of the world's capitalist powerhouses with a set of interests that are increasingly divergent from that of the USA and some of its neighbors. diplomatic relations between the two countries are already in the toilet so deep it would take years to fix. don't be surprised if in their competition for resources and markets, these two rivals come into serious conflict.\r\nalso, there is debate in japan as to whether or not they should remove the pacifist amendment from their constitution to allow them to take part in combat. prime minister koizumi has also stirred up controversy within the last few months by visting a memorial to Japan's World War II dead. apologist publishing houses there have also begun issuing text books to schools that attempt to justify the war. \r\n","author":"red-baited","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 22:56:27","modified":"2002-11-09 22:56:27","fileurl":""},{"id":22068,"heading":"re: simplesimonsays","article":"because war provides peace, as you say, then it must be why sweden, norway, finland, canada, mexico, southamerica, russia, china, india, africa, switzerland...you get the point..mr. simpleton","author":"greenguy","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-09 23:34:17","modified":"2002-11-09 23:34:17","fileurl":""},{"id":22074,"heading":"t-mex","article":"advocates preemptive murder. Get them before they get you. Haw haw! Great idea t-mex. Glad to see you still honor rule of law. Pity you and the CIA are a bit late; the mafia has been doing this for years.\r\nThe good news is the US iron fist is out of the velvet glove. I can see every other country using this as an excuse to knock off their enemies.","author":"brian","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-10 00:32:06","modified":"2002-11-10 00:32:06","fileurl":""},{"id":22079,"heading":"velvet glove?","article":"Since when has the iron fist been gloved?\r\nThe only covering doing anything has been the cringing\r\nsniveling sycophantic media and it's lapdog servility in its job of disinformation and spin control. That's why the availability of this forum is so valuable and why it calls in so much cointelpro activity.","author":"interested","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-10 01:13:02","modified":"2002-11-10 01:13:02","fileurl":""},{"id":22101,"heading":"Less velvet, more fist","article":"like what glove? \r\n-For over 50 years, the US has been waging what has been described by ex-CIA agents like John Stockwell, the highest ranking agent to go public, as a Third World war. In other words: continuous terrorist insurgency against developing countries that have no ability to strike back in any meaningful way (until recently, that is).-\r\nhttp:\/\/uscrusade.com\/newsupdate\/viewnews.cgi?newsid1018871573,32315,","author":"interested","parent_id":21969,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-11-10 04:59:37","modified":"2002-11-10 04:59:37","fileurl":""}]}