{"article":{"id":18846,"heading":"leftist conservatism","author":"c. j. macq","created":"2002-09-06 05:54:31","modified":"2013-11-10 23:45:32","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:45:32","article":"<p>Leftist Conservatism <br>  <br> (part one: A personal perspective) <br>  <br> 9-05-02 <br><br>  <br>  <br> There is a crisis on the left.  <br><br> Ever since John Stuart Mill progressives and free-thinkers have been fighting for their right to be heard without censorship and to circumvent the &ldquo;I know what&rsquo;s good for you&rdquo; attitude of the capitalist elite. But the &ldquo;left&rdquo; have embraced their own elite and the rest of us be damned! <br><br> Please allow me to share but one personal experience concerning this issue that has happened to me over the last year. On 10-01-01 I wrote an article called Think About It which detailed strange coincidences of the events of 9-11 and brought up the possibility of U. S. governmental and corporate involvement in those events. I wrote the piece BEFORE the war and it&rsquo;s intent was to prevent us from ever going to war. I emailed the article to every media outlet and every progressive and social-justice organization I could find on the Net. With one exception I went completely ignored. <br><br> The exception was an anarchist web-site that I have long since forgotten but the reaction I received from the fellow was quite encouraging and appreciated. He was absolutely flabbergasted and enlightened by the points I raised. He kindly posted the piece on his web-site and I received one or two favorable responses and that was that. <br><br> During this time I tried to get involved with an organization called the ISO, the International Socialist Organization. I caught them just as they were preparing an anti-war campaign and I wanted to get involved in that too.  <br><br> I attended a public forum they arranged at UCLA. The turn out was great. Several people spoke and the rest nodded politely in agreement, all fine and good. Then I stood and spoke. I spoke the truth saying basically that our sympathies must not shift to the couple of thousand people who died in the attacks. We must maintain our focus on the 50 million American poor who suffer everyday at the hands of those who died and the many elitists just like them who are alive and well and who continue to profit from their attacks on the American people. More people die every week due to the poverty perpetuated and profited by Wall Street so, although its perfectly alright to mourn those who died on 9-11 lets mourn ALL who died on 9-11, including those who go ignored and forgotten&hellip; the American poor! I ended by reminding those in attendance that the targets chosen by the attackers were economic and military&hellip; absolutely fair game in any war. I never once condoned the attacks but merely put them in truthful and real perspective.  <br><br> If what I&rsquo;ve been told about the Alquieda is true they are every bit as bad as the targets they attacked. Being an enemy of my enemy does not make you my friend. Standing for compassion, truth, justice and equality is THE only thing that&rsquo;ll make you my friend. <br><br> I received an outburst of applause that surprised even me! No speaker received applause before I spoke and I sure as hell wasn&rsquo;t expecting any but sure &lsquo;nuff, there it was. But it didn&rsquo;t take long for a man saying he was a college professor, an elitist, to stand and basically trash everything I said taking much of what I said out of context, convoluting it and making it seem cold and cruel and the entire audience turned against me simply based upon the opinion of one man who claimed to be my superior because he had a degree hanging on his wall.  <br><br> For the life of me how could anyone claiming to be a supporter of social justice side with the thieves and liars at wall street and the warmongers at the pentagon over one of their own? It baffles me even today. <br><br> What I learned about myself is that although I suffer from the fear of public speaking, I have an incredible ability to move people through the passion and no-holds barred truth of what I have to say. <br><br> After that fiasco at UCLA I attended several more ISO meetings. I got up during the last meeting I attended and offered to share with them two pieces I&rsquo;ve written. One called Think Free, which proves the existence of a contemporary American police state written before 9-11 and the afore mentioned Think About It saying about the latter that this brings into question U. S. involvement in the events of 9-11 and this is exactly what we need to be concentrating on. This, better than any other argument, can prevent a U. S. attack upon the Afghan people. I was absolutely shunned and even taken aside and scolded! MY GAWD! There was at most ten people in room. All I was doing was sharing my ideas with those I believed to be my friends and who shared my concerns. But I was a nobody and not worth listening to. Not one person responded to either of my pieces although I had listed my phone number and email address at the end of each article. This lead to the conclusion that they believed me to be so worthless that they weren&rsquo;t going to read anything I&rsquo;ve written just out of spite and their false belief of their superiority over me! <br><br> I notified the national ISO office via email and they too refused to address my concerns not only about the articles but also about the way I was treated. Sounds like capitalism to me. As a matter of fact I&rsquo;ve been treated the exact same way by every capitalist organization or &ldquo;business&rdquo; I&rsquo;ve ever complained to. <br><br> During all of this I persuaded another web-site called &ldquo;victory is certain&rdquo; to forward Think About It to it&rsquo;s subscribers. This site basically forwards published progressive news items from the main stream press and other media sources. Although it was never done with any of their other forwards that they sent, they believed it necessary to put a disclaimer on my piece in essence saying this was a story from a nobody who pressured us into sending his article. He doesn&rsquo;t really have the intelligence to have anything important to say but here it is. I was just happy that they forwarded my piece. Again I received a few favorable responses and that was that for over 6 months. <br><br> A few months ago, around May I believe, even the main-stream press began to hint at these ideas that I so desperately tried to bring to the attention of the public  about 6 months before. Since I recognized a possible trend I quickly asked &ldquo;victory is certain&rdquo; if they would re-issue my story. They not only refused they completely ignored me. <br><br> So I found another web-site called &ldquo;yellow journalism&rdquo; to post it. But can you believe this?...this web-site refused to spell my name correctly! I notified them saying my name is spelled in all lower case at all times. DAMN! It&rsquo;s my fucking name&hellip; I&rsquo;ll spell it as I damned well please but they didn&rsquo;t care. What good is having your own web-site if you can&rsquo;t tell people what to do? Anyway, I let it go knowing the story was more important than their elitist prejudices. Again I received a few favorable responses and let it be known that I greatly appreciate every bit of constructive feed back I have ever received. <br><br> Then at the end of August 2002 &ldquo;Victory is Certain&rdquo; forwarded a piece about a man named Ruppert who had written a book that was making quite a splash in leftist circles covering the very issues that I raised nearly a year ago in Think About It. This man was going to a radio station called KPFK, located in North Hollywood, CA, to talk about this book. <br><br> I again notified &ldquo;victory is certain&rdquo; asking them to re-forward my piece this time directly referring to the Ruppert  forward they themselves sent to me and again I was completely ignored. <br><br> So I emailed 5 or 6 different administrators at KPFK telling them I had beat Ruppurt to the punch by nearly a year and asked them to set the record straight. Again I was ignored except by one person named Sonali. She responded by saying it was too bad I can&rsquo;t prove my claims but credit isn&rsquo;t as important as the story getting out. There are so many things wrong with that statement it ain&rsquo;t funny. She basically just called me a liar. I told her my proof was my word and if credit isn&rsquo;t important then why give Ruppert credit? Why give anyone credit for anything? Anyway, I sent her proof, naming web-site postings and sending a copy of the article. I never heard from her again. <br><br> Meanwhile I asked &ldquo;Victory is Certain&rdquo; if they wouldn&rsquo;t be so kind as to confirm to KPFK the fact that they forwarded my piece way back in October 2001. And lo and behold a miracle occurred&hellip; they responded! But alas they kept telling me.. I don&rsquo;t know what I can do&hellip; and finally after my third attempt with this person he replied by saying I don&rsquo;t have a copy of your piece&hellip; you send it to them! <br><br> UH?... I never once asked this person to send them a copy of the article&hellip; I merely wanted him to confirm when he had forwarded it and I got so frustrated at his inability to read simple English I exploded. He refused to tell the truth so I have given up on him.  <br><br> Meanwhile I have directly phoned Ruppert's organization itself and emailed them a copy of my article and SURPRISE!.... haven&rsquo;t heard a word from him. <br><br> So since all the administrators at KPFK have ignored me I emailed about 15 people who produce and or hosts programs at their station asking for help. Even contacting an organization called &ldquo;Democracy Now&rdquo; that actually has a large section on the front page of KPFK&rsquo;s web-site. Only two persons responded one saying she can&rsquo;t help because she only hosts a music program. She still could&rsquo;ve helped but chose not to interfere with the elitists who run the station. <br><br> The other response came from a host of a program called &ldquo;Community Voices.&rdquo; She explained that Ruppert gets special attention at the station because they already know him. She did not say it was right and for that I thank her. But still she refused to do anything to help fix the problem. She did ask me to send her an essay about the misery I suffer because of my poverty. She&rsquo;d like to eventually have me record it so she might play it on the air and I did so but as of yet I haven&rsquo;t heard a reply. <br><br> Finally, just yesterday, after leaving several voice messages for her to call me, I got a hold of the General Manager of the KPFK. When I mentioned Ruppert she sighed with admiration and said .. Ohhhh, Michael?.. like they were old friends. She blew me off referring me to the programming manager\/director. Although I haven&rsquo;t heard a final decision from him yet, I hope I&rsquo;m wrong but I bet he ignores me further, he rationalized the inhuman treatment of me by his staff by using his own life experience as an example. Basically what he said was he&rsquo;d been ignored and denied credit his entire life so now that he&rsquo;s in the position to do it to others he&rsquo;s going to take advantage of it (the old capitalist rational for perpetuating misery and injustice). I appealed to his sense of fairness saying now he has a chance to treat someone better than the way he&rsquo;d been treated. He finally agreed to read the article&hellip; (how nice) &hellip; and we&rsquo;ll just have to wait and see if he will decide to do the right thing, tell the truth and give credit where credit is due. <br><br> All of this had an easy solution; Apologize (the &ldquo;elite&rdquo; on the left are so rude. What ever happened to phrases like, thank you, I&rsquo;m sorry, your welcome, good job.) and then let me have my say. Ta-da!... problem solved. But instead they have reacted the very same way corrupt business leaders and government officials react; cover-up and deny, deny, deny. When are they going to learn?  <br><br> It&rsquo;s essential that it be understood that I am not claiming Ruppert stole my idea. I&rsquo;ll bet 1000&rsquo;s of people had the same suspicions about 9-11 that I had but I was the first to write about them. And from what I have read of Ruppert&rsquo;s book he has taken what I wrote and added many aspects to this issue that I would&rsquo;ve never been able to uncover. Good for him. <br><br> Also I have absolutely no complaint with what KPFK is doing in the community. I think they serve a good purpose and their existence is vital.  <br><br> I agree, for the most part, with everything the ISO claims to stand for. <br><br>  &ldquo;Victory is Certain&rdquo; does a great job and informed me of many things I would&rsquo;ve never been aware of otherwise. <br><br> And that professor at the UCLA anti-war forum made a point about the importance of declaring yourself a citizen of the world. He&rsquo;s right. <br><br> All I am doing is demanding the same respect and kindness from them that  I have given to them and that all humans deserve. All I expect is the truth.  <br><br> One difference about me that no else in this article can claim, except &ldquo;Victory Is Certain,&rdquo;  is that I WILL NEVER DEMAND OR EXPECT or even ask for money from anyone! I don&rsquo;t want your damned money! Money is for fools and is THE one cause of all the problems in the world. I will never profit from the misery of others. My ideas are for all regardless of your social status and ability to pay. <br><br> One conclusion I&rsquo;ve come to through my years of pain and struggle is that no one is better than you or me! And the only people we are better than are those who believe they are better than us and then we are better than them ONLY because they believe themselves to be better than us. <br><br> I have been ignored by the &ldquo;The Nation&rdquo;, &ldquo;Mother Jones&rdquo;, &ldquo;The Village Voice&rdquo;&hellip; the list is as long as my arm. They would all prefer to publish those same tired old writers who have absolutely nothing new to say; the doctor and Ph. D. dorks and ex-government fascists and reformed corrupt capitalists and professors&hellip; you know&hellip; the elite of the left.  <br><br> Common Cause only wanted my money. Green Peace only wanted me to beg for money for them. Every organization I have ever contacted says you can only participate in the social justice movement if you pay us! What kind of a damned socialist would ever say such a thing?  <br><br> We need to re-evaluate ourselves. We need to stop being hypocrites and start living like we&rsquo;re preaching. We need to set examples people &hellip; not rationalize our own selling out.  <br><br> And lastly we need to stop our own elitist attitudes. Capitalism is NOTHING but elitism. That&rsquo;s all it is. Socialism is nothing but the absence of elitism. Socialism has nothing to do with ownership of anything; not of the means of production, not of the press not of the society itself. How can a system where ownership is impossible be defined by ownership? Ownership is an abstraction, a capitalist concept. We cannot continue to define socialism using capitalist terms. We need to stop putting people on pedestals, Marx, Reed, Hoffman, Chomsky, Moore and yes, even Ruppert are the elitists of the left and no one else can get a word in edge wise. And all I can see is that the left have made no progress in the last 30 years. These elite the left worship so are doing something wrong yet blindly we follow them into the void of failure. <br><br> Elitism isn&rsquo;t about wealth it&rsquo;s about power and control. And conservatism isn&rsquo;t an ideology it&rsquo;s the acceptance, enforcement and perpetuation of the status quo and the social justice movement has become just as conservative within its own ranks as the fascists they claim to abhor.  <br><br> We social progressives have fallen into the capitalist trap of hero worship, covering up and denying our own mistakes and the perpetuation of failed ideas. We desperately need to embrace new concepts and strategies and welcome ALL who have contributions to make towards the goal of social justice. <br><br> c. j. macq <br>  <br> equality IS freedom! <br><br> (part 2 of this 2 part series will deal with the specific archaic concepts and tired old strategies  that the left refuse to let go of even as the ship is sinking.) <br>  <br> <\/p>\n","contact":"revolutionary_@excite.com","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"I am addressing my concerns about the left's propensity to perpetuate it's own elite and their failed strategies and ideas","numcomment":17,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2002\/09\/18846.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":18856,"heading":"Agree and don't agree","article":"I see your legitimate points, but I think you are wrong on many.  The leftist\r\nelite is actually David Corn, Marc Cooper and all the other morons who\r\nwrite for establishment publications like The Nation and trendy, urban\r\nrags like the L.A. Weakly and Village Voice.  Michael Ruppert is in the same\r\nboat as you and it makes me suspicious as to why you would include him\r\non your list when he is actually on the shitlist of the &quot;leftist elite&quot; simply because\r\nhe won't keep his mouth shut.  Corn, Cooper, and sometimes even Chomsky,\r\nare the occasionally spineless elite who get paid fat honorariums and salaries\r\nas they are chosen by the dominant powers to speak for and co-opt leftist and\r\ndissident opinion.  I tend to forgive Chomsky because he still has the balls\r\nto say what the others are too chickenshit to address.  So before you start\r\ncalling out the names of people who do put themselves on the line (like\r\nRuppert, and I'm glad you didn't mention Cockburn and Fisk) get a grip on\r\nwhat the real leftwing elite is in this country--the ones that ain't saying shit\r\n(especially now, post 911) and are just toeing the line for the right and the \r\nmoderate do-nothings.\r\n","author":"apache","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-09-06 20:52:36","modified":"2002-09-06 20:52:36","fileurl":""},{"id":18857,"heading":"egocentrism","article":"I feel for your struggle, but your obsession with getting credit for\r\nyour ideas about 911 come off as very egocentric and contrary\r\nto what being a leftist is all about.  Yes, Ruppert seems to be\r\nthe &quot;chosen&quot; spokesperson for 911 conspiracies and KPFK\r\nmay have shunned you, but look at their perspective.  Ruppert\r\nis somewhat elitist, but put in a position where he has to defend\r\nhis ideas at every turn and yes, its made him a little egocentric\r\nas well, but I think its a coincidence if you're implying that he is\r\ntaking credit for your insights on 911.  Alot of people have had the\r\nsame inclinations (including myself) but the way the capitalist\r\nmedia is set up, only one person is allowed to be the voice of \r\ndissent on certain issues.  Ruppert is allowed because there\r\nare very powerful journalists who think they know how to handle\r\nhim and discredit his name.  Others such as yourself, come out\r\nof nowhere and cannot be dealt with, so to the powers that be\r\nyou must be silenced (your mere existence is unacknowledged).\r\nKPFK has to defend their credibility and integrity at every turn since \r\nthere are right wing corporate wolves at every corner just waiting to take \r\nthat station down.  That is why they have to be tight about who they\r\nlet on the air and who they don't.  I feel for you, but don't fall into the\r\ntrap that you are regognizing in others.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"m. park","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-09-06 21:03:45","modified":"2002-09-06 21:03:45","fileurl":""},{"id":18859,"heading":"leftism elitism","article":"c.j.mackp\r\nThe left is just an extension of the right. They don't even know how to read. If the twoo other commentators had read your article properly, tehy would have realized that you didn't make any of the accusations. You even commended on Rupert. However, you are right. The left elite, like the elite on the right,is not about resolving the issues that we face. They both want us poor and voiceless so as they have some thing to write about and meke money with it. Remember all the stories and books and magazines, written about the situation of people all over the world, goes to sustain the life of the leftists. None of the money acquired from the sale of books or stories or fotos, goes to help any of the victims. It is just another industry. The poor - world over- is a source of income for the educate of the right or the left. Take Noam Chomsky, he is well read and well versed on the issues at hand. Do you see him talking about organizing the people against the state? Do you hear him calling on his students and supporters to create organizations to question the status quo? Every one of the academia, is not a Che Guevara. And we all know that it it difficult to make a revolution when you are well fed (and the left is too bloated on food and alcohool), the same that it is difficult to make a revolution if you are hungry.\r\nAlso the left is mostly run for and by the academic millieu. Hell you wouldn't catch a Noam Chomsky or any of the other self proclaimed left wing recognized name speaking in a labour hall to union workers or in the halls of the homeless.\r\nSo how obtuse can you get? The left is no different than the right. Their process is the same. The important is not the words. Just look at their action and the effect their action has.\r\nLook at the Green party in Germany. Once in power they even went to war.\r\nSo we are doomed. The new agers are no different and the vegan yoga are even involved in sexual scandals. There is no where one can run.\r\njay p.pick","author":"p.pick","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-09-06 23:37:07","modified":"2002-09-06 23:37:07","fileurl":""},{"id":18876,"heading":"thank you","article":"thank you all who have taken the time to respond to this important issue. \r\n\r\nBut remember I am not claiming Ruppert stole my ideas. Ruppert had actually little to do with the point I was making. I'm glad someone actually listened to what he had to say. My complaint wasn't with him... accept when he ignored me too.\r\n\r\nAnd as far as credit goes, i'd just as soon not recieve credit... i don't give a damn... but when credit id given then the correct credit must be given. \r\n\r\ncapitalists, as a matter of routine allow mistakes to be perpetuated... we seekers of social justice cannot follow that routine.\r\n\r\nplease look for part 2 of this 2 part series coming soon.\r\n\r\noh ya... each of you could help me, and the truth, by contacting KPFK and demanding that I be given the right to be heard\r\n\r\nthanks again one and all\r\n\r\nc. j. macq\r\nequality IS freedom!","author":"c. j. macq","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-09-07 19:51:10","modified":"2002-09-07 19:51:10","fileurl":""},{"id":23077,"heading":"chris","article":"I don't think that Chomsky leading and organising is the best use of his abilities.  His taken a vow of poverty would also not matter a whit.  He does state that to do something people should protest and organise and that to do nothing and stay at home and state that you (for example) do not support slavery is in fact supporting slavery. \r\nHe speaks at Universities but he has been at a number of public venues in Canada as well. I think that he is doing a great job of helping people to look at the world in a way that is not encouraged by the media and the majority, who protect the status-quo.\r\nHe can gather far more to the fight against capitalism by writing and speaking than by taking a vow of poverty and undertaking acts of civil disobideince. He is a respected professor of a very well known University and the fact that he states opinions that one would not normally hear from one, who has such privledge (as he recongnises) and as such a position carries more wieght than those, who are more easily labelled fanatics because of society's misguided view of their percieved lesser status.  I don't think that the criticism levelled against him above is correct- let me know if you agree or disagree","author":"chris","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-12-03 00:05:55","modified":"2002-12-03 00:05:55","fileurl":""},{"id":23087,"heading":"hereditary privileged chimp","article":"World salad from our favorite court-appointed simian:\r\n====================\r\n\r\n&quot;I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating.&quot;\r\n--U.S. News & World Report, April 3, 2000 \r\n\r\n&quot;Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning&quot;\r\n--Florence, SC, Jan. 11, 2000 \r\n\r\n&quot;Actually, I -- this may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like it. When I'm talking about -- when I'm talking about myself, and when he's talking about myself, all of us are talking about me.&quot;\r\n--Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000 \r\n\r\n&quot;It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it.&quot;\r\n--Reuters, May 5, 2000 \r\n\r\n&quot;I think we agree, the past is over.&quot;\r\n--On his meeting with John McCain, Dallas Morning News, May 10, 2000 \r\n\r\n&quot;Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometime until we get an objective analysis.&quot;\r\n--Meet the Press, April 15, 2000 \r\n\r\n&quot;If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and principles, come and join this campaign.&quot;\r\n--Hilton Head, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000 \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"join us","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-12-03 02:43:15","modified":"2002-12-03 02:43:15","fileurl":""},{"id":23091,"heading":"Tis the Season to be Stupid","article":"Personally I'd take a man who makes grammer errors, rather than a man who is mean and attacks others to save his own skin, and political career.\r\nI think you know who I'm talking about.  \r\nOf course we sit in judgement of his errors, and joke around.  But thinking back at the womanizer, cheater, and liar.  I'd take the man who makes simple grammer mistakes, to the man who would lie to even his closest advisors and the American people.\r\nFor once someone has lied, they have to keep lying, to cover up for the first lie.  \r\nSo who is to believe even what he says now, after he's out of office.  &quot;I tried my hardest to get Bin Laden&quot;.  Is that a lie, or the truth?\r\nAnd since the media, and everyone else said he was so smart, how in the world did he think that our forces, dressed as &quot;Ninja warriors&quot;, could sneak in and take out Saddam?  Even Bush your favorite bumbling idiot wouldn't think up something that stupid.\r\nAnd while we're talking about the so called smartest man to be President, why didn't he know the meaning of &quot;is&quot;?\r\n","author":"Jude","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-12-03 04:02:16","modified":"2002-12-03 04:02:16","fileurl":""},{"id":23093,"heading":"reich wing fixations","article":"I tell you what, Jude\r\n\r\nWhat if I provide you with a list of documented lies and cover-ups relating to the September 11 attacks?\r\n\r\nOr are more interested in what Bill did with his penis?","author":"I like orgasms","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-12-03 04:56:35","modified":"2002-12-03 04:56:35","fileurl":""},{"id":23094,"heading":"eg","article":"<table width=&quot;90%&quot; border=&quot;1&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;5&quot; bordercolor=&quot;#990000&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;>\r\n<tr><td bgcolor=&quot;#990000&quot;><p align=&quot;center&quot;><b><font color=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot; size=&quot;+1&quot;>Pet Goat Story - September 11, 2001 (realtime)<\/font><\/b><\/p><\/td><\/tr><tr><td>\r\n<p><b><font size=&quot;-1&quot;><object classid=&quot;clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000&quot; codebase=&quot;http:\/\/download.macromedia.com\/pub\/shockwave\/cabs\/flash\/swflash.cab#version=5,0,0,0&quot; width=&quot;150&quot; height=&quot;200&quot; align=&quot;left&quot;>\r\n<param name=movie value=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/goaty2yvhpb5.swf&quot;><param name=quality value=high><embed src=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/metafiles\/&quot; quality=high pluginspage=&quot;http:\/\/www.macromedia.com\/shockwave\/download\/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash&quot; type=&quot;application\/x-shockwave-flash&quot; width=&quot;150&quot; height=&quot;200&quot; align=&quot;left&quot;>\r\n<\/embed><\/object>JENNINGS:<\/font><\/b> Many thanks, Lindsay Grimm, who saw this occurring, at least the first--hesitate to call it an attack--the first incident. We'll continue to call it for now, and very much the second \r\none now. That's what it looks like, both of the towers in--twin trade towers are now on fire. We have no idea whatsoever the measure of casualties inside or the measure of damage inside, though you can only imagine it. \r\nThe New York City Office of Emergency Management said to us a short while ago they do not know what happened yet. <\/p><p><i>Want to check in very quickly with the president of the United States. \r\nJohn Cochran <font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>with the president<\/font> in Florida. John:<\/i><\/p><p><b><font size=&quot;-1&quot;>JOHN COCHRAN<\/font><\/b> reporting: <\/p><p>Peter, as you know, the president's down in Florida talking about education. \r\n<b> <i>He got out of his hotel suite this morning, was about to leave, reporters saw the White House chief of staff, Andy Card, whisper into his ear<\/i><\/b>. <i>The reporter said to the president, '<b>Do you know \r\nwhat's going on in New York?<\/b><\/i>' <b><font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>He said <font size=&quot;+1&quot;> <i>he did<\/i><\/font>, and he said he will have something about it later.<\/font><\/b> His first event is about half an hour at an \r\nelementary school in Sarasota, Florida. <\/p><p><b><font size=&quot;-1&quot;>JENNINGS:<\/font><\/b> Thanks, John. John Cochran <i>with the president<\/i><br><a href=&quot;http:\/\/emperors-clothes.com\/9-11backups\/abc911.htm&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>ABC \r\nTranscript @ Emperors Clothes<\/a><\/p><\/td><\/tr><tr><td bgcolor=&quot;#990000&quot;><p align=&quot;center&quot;><b><font color=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot; size=&quot;+1&quot;>Pet Goat Story - September 12, 2001<\/font><\/b><\/p><\/td>\r\n<\/tr><tr><td><p><i><b><img src=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/metafiles\/bush_cardwl2gsx.jpg&quot; width=&quot;228&quot; height=&quot;172&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;>Mr. Bush was informed that a plane had hit the World Trade Center<\/b><\/i><b><font color=&quot;#990000&quot;> \r\nin a telephone conversation with Ms. Rice<\/font> shortly <i><font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>before<\/font><\/i> walking into a second-grade classroom at the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, <\/b>Fla. White House officials said he <i>knew<\/i> \r\nonly that it was a single aircraft and <i>not necessarily<\/i> a terrorist attack. The president did not appear preoccupied until a few moments later, around <i><b><font color=&quot;#000066&quot;>9:05a.m<\/font><\/b><\/i>., when his chief \r\nof staff, Andrew H. Card Jr., entered the room and whispered into the president's ear about the second plane attack.At that moment Mr. Bush's face became visibly tense and serious. [...] <\/p><p>&quot;This is a difficult time for America,&quot; Mr. Bush said. Air \r\nForce One departed from Sarasota at<i> <font color=&quot;#000066&quot;><b>9:55 a.m<\/b><\/font><\/i>. <\/p><p><\/p><p>Bush Commits U.S. to Hunt Down Both Terrorists and Their Supporters, ELISABETH BUMILLER with DAVID E. SANGER<br>NYT, September 12, 2001<\/p>\r\n<\/td><\/tr><tr><td bgcolor=&quot;#990000&quot;><p align=&quot;center&quot;><b><font color=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot; size=&quot;+1&quot;>Pet Goat Story - December 4, 2001<\/font><\/b><\/p><\/td><\/tr><tr><td><p><font size=&quot;-1&quot;><b><img src=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/metafiles\/forgery2yodvl1.jpg&quot; width=&quot;300&quot; height=&quot;200&quot; align=&quot;left&quot;>THE \r\nPRESIDENT<\/b><\/font> (sic): Hi, Patricia; how are you? How old is Patricia?<\/p><p><b>Q<\/b>: Five, and Jordan is in 3rd grade. And Jordan has a question, if I could give him the microphone. <\/p><p><b><font size=&quot;-1&quot;>THE PRESIDENT<\/font><\/b> (sic): You bet. Your mother \r\nis relaying the Mike to you, Jordan. <\/p><p><b>Q:<\/b> One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for this country. And another thing is that, <i>how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?<\/i> (Applause.) <\/p>\r\n<p><b><font size=&quot;-1&quot;>THE PRESIDENT<\/font><\/b> (sic): Thank you, Jordan. <i><b>Well, Jordan, <font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>you're not going to believe<\/font> what state I was in<\/b><\/i> when I heard about the terrorist attack. I \r\nwas in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, <i>I was in<\/i> a classroom talking about a reading program that works. <i>I was sitting outside<\/i> the classroom waiting to go in, <b><i><font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>and \r\nI saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on<\/font><\/i><\/b>. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, <b><i><font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>well, there's one terrible pilot<\/font><\/i><\/b>. I said, it must have been a \r\nhorrible accident.<br><a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.whitehouse.gov\/news\/releases\/2001\/12\/20011204-17.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>Whitehouse.Gov<\/a><\/p><\/td><\/tr><tr><td bgcolor=&quot;#990000&quot;><p align=&quot;center&quot;><b><font color=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot; size=&quot;+1&quot;>Pet Goat Story - January 5, 2001<\/font><\/b><\/p>\r\n<\/td><\/tr><tr><td><p><b><img src=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/metafiles\/forgery1f7zvsx.jpg&quot; width=&quot;300&quot; height=&quot;221&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;>Q:<\/b> <i>What was the first thing that went through your head<\/i> when you heard that a plane crashed into the first building? <\/p>\r\n<p><b><font size=&quot;-1&quot;>THE PRESIDENT<\/font><\/b> (sic):: Yes. Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida. I had gone down to tell my little brother what to do, and -- just kidding, Jeb. (Laughter.) And -- it's the mother in me. (Laughter.) Anyway, I was in the midst of learning about \r\na reading program that works. I'm a big believer in basic education, and it starts with making sure every child learns to read. And therefore, we need to focus on the science of reading, not what may feel good or sound good when it comes to teaching children to read. (Applause.) I'm \r\njust getting a plug in for my reading initiative. <\/p><p>Anyway, I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- <i>well, first of all, <b>when we walked into the classroom, <font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>I had seen<\/font> this plane fly into the <font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>first<\/font> \r\nbuilding. <font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>There was a TV set on<\/font><\/b>.<\/i> And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane, \r\nor -- anyway, I'm sitting there, listening to the briefing, and Andy Card came and said, &quot;America is under attack.&quot; <a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.whitehouse.gov\/news\/releases\/2002\/01\/20020105-3.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><br>\r\nWhitehouse.Gov<\/a><\/p><\/td><\/tr><tr><td bgcolor=&quot;#990000&quot;><p align=&quot;center&quot;><b><font color=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot; size=&quot;+1&quot;>Pet Goat Story - September 10, 2002<\/font><\/b><\/p><\/td><\/tr><tr><td><p><img src=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/metafiles\/bush_cardwl2gsx.jpg&quot; width=&quot;228&quot; height=&quot;172&quot; align=&quot;left&quot;>[Kristen] BREITWEISER: \r\nI think what really initially started was I saw the picture of the president in, I think it was &#147;Newsweek&#148; or &#147;Time&#148; magazine, and I read the caption. And the caption said, you know, &#147;Andy Card \r\ntelling the president about the second plane.&#148; <font color=&quot;990000&quot;>And then I read that he proceeded to read for 25 minutes to the 2nd- graders. He was in a Sarasota school that morning for a reading program. And I read it again, and I \r\nthought it was, you know, misreported. And it wasn&#146;t<\/font>, and I got upset. I said, you know, this nation was under attack. It was clear that we were under attack. Why didn&#146;t the Secret Service whisk him out of that \r\nschool? He was on live local television in Florida. The terrorists, you know, had been in Florida. I mean, we <\/p><p>DONAHUE: Right.<\/p><p>BREITWEISER: And I-I am concerned. I want to know why the Secret Service \r\ndid not whisk him away. I want to know why he is the commander-in-chief of the United States of America, our country was clearly under attack, it was after the second building was hit. I want to know why he sat there \r\nfor 25 minutes.<br><a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.msnbc.com\/news\/806581.asp&quot; target=&quot;blank&quot;>MSNBC\/Newsweek<\/a><\/p><\/td><\/tr><tr><td bgcolor=&quot;#990000&quot;><div align=&quot;center&quot;><b><font color=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot; size=&quot;+1&quot;>Pet Goat Story - September 12, 2002<\/font><\/b><\/div><\/td><\/tr><tr><td>\r\n<p><b><font size=&quot;4&quot;><object classid=&quot;clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000&quot; codebase=&quot;http:\/\/download.macromedia.com\/pub\/shockwave\/cabs\/flash\/swflash.cab#version=5,0,0,0&quot; width=&quot;150&quot; height=&quot;200&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;>\r\n<param name=movie value=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/goaty2yvhpb5.swf&quot;><param name=quality value=high><embed src=&quot;http:\/\/www.sydney.indymedia.org\/local\/webcast\/uploads\/goaty2yvhpb5.swf&quot; quality=high pluginspage=&quot;http:\/\/www.macromedia.com\/shockwave\/download\/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash&quot; type=&quot;application\/x-shockwave-flash&quot; width=&quot;150&quot; height=&quot;200&quot; align=&quot;right&quot;>\r\n<\/embed><\/object>New York Post<\/font><\/b><br>September 12th 2002<br>Teacher relives moment Bush- and her kids- got the news <\/p><p>&quot;...at Emma E. Booker Elementary School, teacher Sandra Daniels \r\nrecalled yesterday how she and her class learned of the terror attacks-<i> when <b><font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>a Secret Service agent<\/font> rushed into the room<\/b> to inform the president of United States<\/i>.<\/p>\r\n<p>President Bush had been presiding over her reading class last 9\/11, when a Secret Service agent interrupted the lesson and asked, <font color=&quot;#990000&quot;><b>&quot;where can we get a television?&quot;.<\/b><\/font><\/p><p><b><i>&quot;The President <font color=&quot;#990000&quot;>bolted right out of here<\/font> and told me: &quot;take \r\nover&quot;<\/i><\/b>, Daniels told the Post yesterday...<\/p><p>...a short while later he came back and said, 'What we thought was an accident turned out to be a terrorist hijack.&quot;<br><a href=&quot;http:\/\/www.nypost.com\/09112002\/56883.htm&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;>NewYorkPost<\/a><\/p>\r\n<\/td><\/tr><\/table>","author":"parse the spin","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2002-12-03 04:59:25","modified":"2002-12-03 04:59:25","fileurl":""},{"id":23226,"heading":"thanks 'parse the spin'.....","article":"<a href=http:\/\/www.zmag.org\/content\/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2693>latest from Chomsky as of 12\/03\/02<\/a>","author":"lynx-11","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-12-06 00:36:17","modified":"2002-12-06 00:36:17","fileurl":""},{"id":23232,"heading":"Bush Admirer is stooopid","article":"Dear BA (does that stand for Bare Ass or Bush Admirer? same thing i guess),\r\n\r\nso, you moved down here from portland and san francisco to bring your venom to sunny southern california. i guess the troll killers up north got tired of your stooopidity and decided to pull your plug.\r\n\r\nwatching you attack chomsky is like watching GW Bush give a lecture on running a succesful company, or for that matter giving a lecture on anything that is coherent and has complete sentences! heh heh.\r\n\r\nfor others in the audience, please note BA's inability to provide footnotes, or any factual basis for his rhetoric. he simply resorts to ad hominen attacks, straw-man arguments, and emotionally potent oversimplifications (thanks chomsky for that one!). indeed, the notion of liberal bias is something that conservatives love to talk about in the media. well, Mr. Bare Ass and others in the room tonight, lets not forget who owns the media but very conservative corporations including dildos like Murdoch et al.\r\n\r\nBut i digress. Mr Bare Ass is a paid spammer, a troll that should not be fed by the likes of me and others on this board. Remember the scientologists that got paid to troll around http:\/\/www.xenu.net ? Well, you can read about it there i believe and at the New Times website when they were here in LA. The point is, is that the likes of Bare ASses from all over the place get paid to discredit people. Mr BA follows all the classic characteristics of such a bozo.\r\n\r\nohh, and in the case of the scientologist, she actually left scientology once she was exposed to the truth for such a long period of time. I suspect all the Bare Asses of the world will do the same the longer they linger. So, we can all kiss our Bare Ass goodbye!\r\n\r\ncheers,\r\n\r\nMr. Ill-logical\r\n\r\n","author":"ill-logical","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-12-06 02:58:09","modified":"2002-12-06 02:58:09","fileurl":""},{"id":23240,"heading":"an enormous surprise!","article":"\r\nDid you read the Orwellian Revisionists' version of the Pet Goat Story, BA?\r\n\r\nHave you seen the Booker Elementary Video of the resident reading the Pet Goat Storywhile New York burned?\r\n\r\nWhy do you think the New York Post composed an entirely fictional account fo the events for the 911 anniversary &quot;celebration&quot;?\r\n\r\nSince you have already been exposed for criticizing that which you are not familiary with, why do you continue to ignore the substance of arguments in favour of ad-hominem attack against the person responsible for producing the argument?\r\n\r\nFor example, I already mentioned that even the smartest people are prone to mistakes.  The mechanism of self-preservation responsible for the ego tends to discourage people from re-cognizing their own failures. This is a problem, since the recognition of error is a necessary step for developing the explanatory fitness of any theory.  A  *scientific* scholar should welcome the exposure of error.\r\n\r\nI could highlight a few Chomsky errors for you, but since they are mostly related to an area of inquiry in which I doubt you have much knowledge or interest--cognitive science--I''ll stick to the glaring error in &quot;911&quot; that I already mentioned:\r\n\r\n==============\r\nQ: Could you say something about connicance and the role of American Secret Service:\r\n\r\nA:  I don't quite understand the question. [!]  The attack was SURELY AN ENORMOUS SURPRISE TO THE INTELLIGENCE SERVICES OF THE WEST, INCLUDING THOSE OF THE UNITED STATES.\r\n\r\n-Chomsky, 911, pp 17-18.\r\n==============\r\n\r\n\r\nPlease parse the Pet Goat Story to all your friends!","author":"parse the spin","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2002-12-06 07:25:34","modified":"2005-08-15 01:01:15","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2002\/12\/bushknew.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2002\/12\/bushknew.jpg"}},{"id":23258,"heading":"thanks 'ill logical' and 'parse the spin'.....","article":"\r\n\r\n<a href=http:\/\/www.zmag.org\/content\/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2694> extended version of 12\/03\/02 Chomsky<\/a>\r\n\r\n<a href=http:\/\/www.fair.org\/reports\/journalist-survey.html>extensive study of media bias<\/a>\r\n\r\n<a href=http:\/\/www.a-zone.org\/mondragon\/pushback.html>Ward Churchill<\/a>","author":"lynx-11","parent_id":18846,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-12-06 19:39:33","modified":"2002-12-06 19:39:33","fileurl":""}]}