{"article":{"id":17060,"heading":"We Need Argentina-style Neighborhood  Assemblies in L.A.!","author":"Anti-Fascist","created":"2002-06-12 01:01:14","modified":"2002-06-14 00:52:17","last_modified":"Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:52:17","article":"<p>In the face of the U.S\/IMF induced economic crisis in Argentina, the people there continue to defy it and the government repression it also brought with direct-Democracy in the form of \"neighborhood assemblies\". <br>  <br>    While looking at articles on IMC U.K., I ran across this update from Argentina, documenting the continuation of neighborhood assemblies in the face of government repression and attacks. As the U.S. government continues to impose increasingly fascist policies on the people of L.A., can we follow Argentina's example and form neighborhood assemblies here to counter these government attacks\/repressions? <br>  <br>    Read about how they're doing it in Argentina here:<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"http:\/\/uk.indymedia.org\/front.php3?article_id=33440&group=webcast","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"  Let's try this here!","numcomment":9,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2002\/06\/17060.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":17062,"heading":"the extant & nacent LA neighborhood councils","article":"What about the neighborhood council plan that is allready in motion?  Of course it has its limits, but it could act as a springboard for real grassroots power.\r\n\r\nRead this article on LA Neighborhood councils.\r\nhttp:\/\/www.la.indymedia.org\/display.php3?article_id=9222\r\n\r\nAlso, Jim Smith recently posted this article about how the venice progressive community is attemting to stack a council to create a radical neighborhood council.http:\/\/www.la.indymedia.org\/display.php3?article_id=16951\r\n\r\nWhat do you think","author":"yeah!","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-12 02:37:44","modified":"2002-06-12 03:00:05","fileurl":""},{"id":17067,"heading":"Sounds Like a Good Start...","article":"  ...But to be anything like the Direct Democracy of the Neighborhood Assemblies of Argentina, they need to be more spontanious and autonomous;not beholden to the mayor, city council and\/or corporate funding. The funding process, as I noticed, can too easily be co-opted by corporate interests if neighborhood councils start getting lured by donations from corporate foundations offering large sums with equally large strings attached.\r\n\r\n     I'm looking at something more independent of the current city government\/economic structure-as in Argentina. Maybe a way can be found to move the Neigborhood Councils in that direction, like by making them more responsible for their own fund-raisng to keep them from running to the corporate foundations or the city, for example, and go from there.","author":"Anti-Fascist","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-12 23:42:32","modified":"2002-06-13 00:00:23","fileurl":""},{"id":17073,"heading":"interesting","article":"While I agree with you %110, I also disagree with you in both practicality and necessity.  Argentina's councils are bourne out of imediate crisis and (I assume) are more \"legitimate\" (big quotes) because of the crisis have an actual ability to take on a sense of legitimacy and power.  I ASSUME that they are more diverse and representative because of their immediate needs.\r\nMeanwhile, I wonder if starting such an alternative council hear outside of the system, while a worthy thought might be a pointless activity in academic anarchism. I dont mean this to be an insult, I mean this to be a debate...  Hear LA has given \"us\" a chance to organize political bodies in whatever way \"we the people\" feel appropriate and have actually vested them with power and money.  I see that this would be a more diverse and fruitfull excercise then the accademic and powerless ideal.  The only way they could ever claim legitimacy is through negation and critique of extant councils or through crisis.\r\nAnd I think that at least at the onset of the council system, or until they have proven to be tools for power not people, we can and should try to use this as an activist tool WITH POWER to push for our community needs.  This would be more then an excercise in anarchist ideology among those with like mind, it would be real experience in working with communities and diverse ideologies to try and realistically answer to the needs of the community (and also, because they are constituted by us- our critique would be a part of our institutional voice.)\r\n\r\nWhat do you think?","author":"yeah!","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-13 03:59:14","modified":"2002-06-13 04:55:36","fileurl":""},{"id":17074,"heading":"a suggestion","article":"I heard workers in argentina started to seize factories. Let's seize factories. ","author":"anarchoslangwithabang","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-13 04:55:33","modified":"2002-06-13 06:00:28","fileurl":""},{"id":17077,"heading":"Shouldn't Wait for a Crisis","article":"  We shouldn't wait for a crisis to happen before we try new approaches. Perhaps going ahead with the neighborhood councils as they are presently designed is good, but also we should form independent Neighborhood Assemblies(or something like them) to get our communities organized and prepared for a crisis which can occur at any time under this patently chaotic capitalist globalization. As the other poster noted, we should also be prepared to seize factories and other productive facilities in the event of a crisis, to minimize hardship and maximize the protection of everyone's human rights, because it's a fact the government won't.","author":"Anti-Fascist","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-13 12:29:47","modified":"2002-06-13 12:49:39","fileurl":""},{"id":17081,"heading":"hyperidealist","article":"The comparison between Argentina and the United States are unparallel, Argentina is in a major crisis, while the U.S is far far from that. Now as far hastening and crisis, I believe we can not wait around for a crisis to occur and radicals need to be a decisive factor in creating that crisis. However, to attempt anything on a large scale while the ruling class is strong and we are weak is not in the intrest of the people and will take a potentially good idea and run it into the ground.\r\n\r\nWill it create change\r\n\r\nI know this Argentina is admired distinctively in the Anarchist movement due to the whole anarchist idea of setting up collectives with out engaging the other side into fighting.( create social rev and defend it when it come under attack) however, how will you really be able to set up a collective, commune that is real and creates real change. the above posts gave no real insight on how you would avoid paying rent and bills, operating stores, maintaing relgious facilities and service busnissess. and also avoid the precense of police. I've heard anarchists have set up community patroles, but that will in know way prevent the police from trying to ruin any tpe of community. also for this to work how will it actually work in a community innvolving the masses and not just a number of activists.\r\n\r\nwhy argentina is different\r\n\r\nargentina is different for all the obvious reasons. there have been rotating door rulers, the middle class is in shambles, there's more class concious. but also to comment on argentina there is an impressive amount of people engaged in the bartering system, however, how many people are bartering because there is a need to, and there are no other options or because the they are politically concious and want to abolish capitalism and the state.\r\n\r\nus commune communities\r\n\r\nits a no win situation. why because it will not be tampered with by the people who rule as long as it is not making significant change. however, if it does make significant change it will be crushed by the police and army. just look at MOVE in philly 11 people dead and a decimated city block. i have yet to  read of a sufficent plan on how to defend these little urban commune collectives.\r\n\r\n\r\nstate power\r\n\r\n\" without state power every thing is an illusion\". although argentina is shinning example of the flaws of capitalism and inspiring resistance that is desprately needed, people commitees and communes have exercised real collectivity in Nepal. There much of the land is ran by the people, but this has been done only by armed masses getting rid of the police, landlords and sex slave traders. the slogan \" land to the tiller\" is a reality and people are conciously grappling on how to seize power nation wide\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"mlm","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-13 14:26:29","modified":"2002-06-13 15:00:27","fileurl":""},{"id":17089,"heading":"not a new idea","article":"I dont think that starting our own little dream councils is a new idea, isnt that what infoshops, the IMC and many other anarchist organizations allready do- build up a network of people who have experience working together to press for change and to ideally have a good process in order when the shit hits the fan (like that is actually a good thing- to have a body ready to take control when that happens.)\r\n\r\nNo, I think the new idea is being confident in our own critiques of power and justice and economy and trying to actuate them in the real.  Create a broad communty base that has anarchist ideas- but is also made up of liberation theology, unionist, homeowners- whomever happens to be atracted to the council.  An ideologically pure neighborhood council isnt a neighborhood, its an army barrack.\r\n\r\nAs for MOVE, what would have been the case if a radical group like MOVE had done thier thing in say-  berekely in 1969.  they may have still gotten the bomb- or not? the surrounding community may have been so supportive and integrated into their struggle that it would be suicide for any mayor or police chief to order the bombing.  \r\n\r\nWe have to create the conditions that will allow for more radical projects to flourish.  Right now, we have powerless neighborhoods and representation by one vote once in a while- what if the community held the power.  Yes, it might not be as radical as MOVE, but it would go a long way towards allowing MOVE to exist- or better towards uniting people into a meaningfull process that makes clear the conflicts and possibilities for all people beyond ideology.\r\n\r\nYeah, seize a factory!\r\nI read that last week there were wildcat strikes at the LAX McDonalds.  \r\n\r\n","author":"yeah!","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-13 21:01:38","modified":"2002-06-13 21:58:56","fileurl":""},{"id":17091,"heading":"still","article":"actually i dont think MOVE was radical enough and was as integrated the community as any anarchist community would be. Actually there was a tremendous amount of outcry from surrounding communities against the attack. I think you are giving the capitalists a little too much moral credit. I f there is something threating there structure they will do anything to dismantle it regardless and if you are not threating them than whats the point, its a clear sign you are not creating change for the people. the question of how all these factors will be meeted still hasnt been answered. IMCs, infoshops are great, obviously i partcipate, but it just a medium to report the change it does not create the change. it is a tool of communication that does not reach alot of people these collective communites should be designed for as well.","author":"mlm","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-13 21:58:55","modified":"2002-06-13 22:22:42","fileurl":""},{"id":17096,"heading":"well then","article":"\r\nIf you remember, the WTO protests in Seattle started off on a good tone partly because all the city-councilpeople and  much of the local government (left and right) declared early on their support for the protests and stated their opposition to the WTO.  A friendly environment was created for the more radical action.\r\n\r\n\r\nAll I am arguing for is the fact that the structure should be more then an anarchist club, and suggesting that by doing it in the nieghborhood council structure would be a great chance.  We have to be doing things in the real. I argued before that the argentina model wouldnt attract people because their is no crisis like argentina has.  I argue that doing it under the rubric of the council would create something because it has potency, and is of use to many people. What is the other choice, announcing dictats to a no one while gaining no experience in working with diversity?\r\n\r\nIm sure their are other options, but.... name one.\r\n\r\n\r\nWhether or not its done throught the councils or autonomously, if it challenges the system the man will try and crush it.\r\n\r\nWhether its done through the system or not, it needs to actually hook up with people's needs, their schedules and their reality.  This does not mean forgetting our ideals..","author":"yeah!","parent_id":17060,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-06-14 00:52:17","modified":"2002-06-14 01:06:35","fileurl":""}]}