{"article":{"id":15695,"heading":"Anarchists clash with police during an attempted counter protest against Racists","author":"Pookie","created":"2002-03-25 08:01:03","modified":"2002-04-16 00:41:11","last_modified":"Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:41:11","article":"<p>March 23rd Westwood Federal Building Los Angeles <br><br> During a rally put on by the CCIR and American Patrol, two leading groups in a racist war against mexican immigrants,  anarchists from the SKAA (Southern Kalifornian Anarchist Alliance) attempted to counter attack with a shield line. After the shield line marched passed the parking lot of the federal building, the federal police moved in, telling them to drop their shields, and to get on their knees. The shield line deployed and a violent clash ensued between the police and anarchists. Ending shortly, the anarchists made a tactical retreat, with one of their group getting arrested. One demonstrator, and a police officer were minorly injured. It was reported later that the prisoner was released. The prisoner said that the arresting officer was impressed with the shield line, but the shield line \"fucked up\" when one of them fell, he said that the shield line should have done a diamond formation. The officer also showed sympathy with the anarchists, saying that if he was out of uniform, he would be there with us (How many times have we heard that before). Being sympathetic, the officer decided to release the young anarchist.  <br><br> The Final Days News Service <br>  <br> Brought to you by the SKAA <br>  <br> -Pookie<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"A account of the clash between the SKAA shield line, and federal law enforcefment","numcomment":18,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2002\/03\/15695.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":15712,"heading":"Chicken shit!","article":"Dear Black Bloc and Pookie,\r\nI want to let you know that I have a lot of respect for you and the Black Bloc.  A lot of us did not go (because of fear and apathy).  People on the Los Angeles anarchist list is all full of shit(including me)!  Even a lot of chicano nationalist groups are all just talk.  I know this because a lot of them are my close friends who I knew for over 10 years.\r\nI'm sorry for not coming.  I want to be honest with you- I was a chicken shit!  \r\nFrom-Some one who lives near by Luna SOl Cafe\r\n\r\nI give my love to all the Black Bloc and the young white anarchist  activist (because they practice what they preach and they are not scared).\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"I'm getting too old.....","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 00:48:22","modified":"2002-03-26 01:01:02","fileurl":""},{"id":15714,"heading":"Thanks But we Aren't \"The White Movement\"","article":"The majority of the people in bloc were people of color, and yes we needed more people there, and almost ended up getting fucked up and arrested. I'm not one who wants a white bloc, or a white movement, and though the bloc is definatley moving out of that direction, the activist movement in general (Anarchists, communists, and others) need serious improvement. The fact that no one but some anarchist youth showed up to counter protest a rally against Mexicans is very concerning. I'm sure people can learn a lesson from this, and actually start attacking issues of racism in our community. If we let them organize and rally, what will we let them do next, kill immigrants (Because they are allready doing that at the border)? These type of groups need to be attacked. They have grown in numbers, and the resistance to it was 9-12 anarchist youth. That is pathetic. The amount of time we found out about it didn't really give us the time to organize more people though. Thank you for your compliments, hopefully we will see you in the streets next time a event of this nature arises. \r\n\r\nANTIFA!\r\n\r\n-Agent Pookie","author":"Pookie","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 02:48:25","modified":"2002-03-26 03:01:02","fileurl":""},{"id":15719,"heading":"yah","article":" It was very discouraging to see no one there when we arrived. And yes, this situation could have been alot worse. Luckly, the bloc made a tactical retreat, which was a smart move at the time, considering there was only 7-9 of the bloc, and the perimeter of federal police started to close in as they began attacking the bloc and arrested one of the group. However, the bloc shouldn't have to retreat like this. But it was the only option the bloc had, and I think this is something that everyone needs to look at, so it doesn't have to happen again. There needs to be more future planing, training, and new tactics in the bloc to insure that the bloc is deployed more effectivly. 7-9 people isn't enough. There needs to be more. If the pig cowards have their tactics down, then we need to get ours down. I feel that we have enough potential - especially here in Los Angeles - to get at least 20-30 people in a bloc even with a 7 day's notice for a demonstration. Enough of the apathy. We can't be chicken shit about this anymore. If there's any ppl out there who are 'down' with the bloc, then don't hesitate to join up with the bloc. If you're concerned about getting your ass kicked, then it's time to start training. You need to get mentaly prepared before you can be pyscially prepared. It's not a playfight anymore. Every street is the front line.\r\n\r\n!viva la revolucion!\r\n\r\n","author":"anonymous","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 09:43:35","modified":"2002-03-26 10:00:04","fileurl":""},{"id":15720,"heading":"hahaha","article":"hey its funny reading this article and then what the americna patrol had to say... heres what the dumbass american patrol had to say---->\r\n\r\n\r\nTERRORISTS REPELLED BY FEDERAL PROTECTIVE SERVICE\r\n\r\nThe following is based on a number of eye-witness reports by rally goers:\r\n\r\nSometime after 1 PM, a phalanx of from ten to fifteen Mexican-appearing young males were seen approaching the rally, marching in single-file north on Veteran Ave. They were dressed in black and carried shields and signs, the sticks for which were sharpened to serve as weapons. Many were hooded. As the group reached the outskirts of the rally area where our porta-potties were located, they were confronted by officers of the Federal Protective Service. They were told to leave. A confrontation ensued and the federal officers begin fighting with the terrorists. One terrorist was arrested and the rest escaped by running from the scene.\r\n\r\nOne observer said the shields were lined with razor blades. Another said the terrorists had sword-type weapons.\r\n\r\nAmerican Patrol was assured by law enforcement that we would be protected. They asked that we not have our own security on site. I agreed. It was the right thing to do.\r\n\r\nAs happened on July 4, 2000, the men of the Federal Protective Service came to our aid and prevented injury or death. For that, we thank them. These are brave men, and they are on our side. I cannot say the same for the management of the General Services Administration, which I am now convinced is being run by anti-Americans.\r\n\r\nIn the final analysis, the appearance of these terrorists is yet additional proof that America is under attack, not only by Muslim extremists, but by invaders determined to place the American Southwest under thier jurisdiction.\r\n\r\n","author":"top secret","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 10:47:03","modified":"2002-03-26 11:00:05","fileurl":""},{"id":15721,"heading":"dissenting voice","article":"There's a reason why more people don't show up when American Patrol puts on another one of its racist rallies, and it isn't fear. We weren't afraid to show up and oppose them in '96, '97, '98 and 2000, when they took over Westwood every July 4. (In '99 we got the permit first, and in 2001 the federal government fooled everybody and didn't give any permits.) The trouble is, whenever there is fighting or any kind of trouble at these events, these racist clowns get much more media coverage than they deserve. This time, they hardly got any coverage at all, and I think it's because people like me ignored them. Yes, I made a conscious decision NOT to go and oppose them this year. I did not want to give them any more free publicity. With any luck, their rallies will get smaller and smaller, to the point of irrelevancy. (Well, OK, they're already irrelevant and a laughingstock.) \r\n\r\nWhile I respect all strugglers against fascism and racism, I do not agree with the philosophy of \"We go where they go.\" Conditions here and now are not identical to Nazi Germany in the 30's. The pro-immigrant side now has the momentum, not only in governmental circles but also in public opinion, and I don't want to squander that. Even right-wingers are now talking about \"legalizing\" the undocumented! This is something really important that affects real people's lives. What American Patrol does in public is NOT important, and affects no one's lives except their own. It must be really sad to be such a hate-filled person, viewing HUMAN BEINGS (mostly women & children) as a \"scourge\" or \"invasion\".\r\n\r\nPlease understand that I am not ignoring or minimizing Bush\/Ashcroft's attacks on freedom and roundups of Muslims and South Asians, and I will definitely attend rallies on those subjects. However, I am not willing to be led around by the nose by American Patrol & Co., because that's kind of like letting them set my agenda. \r\n\r\nIf conditions were a little different, like if American Patrol was more popular, I might think differently, and I might just be takin' the ol' RapidBus to Westwood again.....\r\n\r\nAlso, this may be unfashionable, but I am committed to non-violence. The last time we planned a counter-protest against American Patrol, I suggested that we train security monitors and come up with contingency plans to protect our people and innocent bystanders from physical harm. I was dismayed by the lack of interest. The macho guys sitting at the table with me all said, \"We're not turning the other cheek.\" (Oh, if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that!) It takes more courage to face your opponent without fighting than to wade in with hostile, stick-waving machismo. Beating up your opponents at a political protest does not do anything to help the cause, and people in Los Angeles are beginning to realize that, thank god.\r\n\r\nI send my best wishes to the guys who got arrested and hurt, I hope they are OK.\r\n\r\nTom  ","author":"Tom Louie","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 12:02:13","modified":"2002-03-26 13:00:02","fileurl":""},{"id":15722,"heading":"gender and direct action","article":"Direct physical confrontation is the only historically effective method of stopping racist fascist movements. I congratulate the small group that put this into practice here. Tom posted about his desire for pacifist methods and the machismo of direct action. I don't know how things are on the west coast, but on the east coast women make up a large and active part of our direct actions. Physical confrontation is a tactic. One of many. Linking this tactic to machismo or maleness is absurd (at least in my experience). If you want to call for pacifist methods, do so in terms of your beliefs and tactical analysis. Don't perpetuate the myth that men choose cetain methods and women choose others. Activism is based on principles and tactics. Not character traits based on gender myths. When we shut down the racists in York, PA not too long ago, anarchist women were in the streets leading the charge.\r\n\r\nDuke","author":"Duke","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 14:29:33","modified":"2002-03-26 15:00:03","fileurl":""},{"id":15724,"heading":"Yes it is out of fashion","article":"Didn't you know that pacifism is SOOOO 60's! God, your so retro Tom! HA!\r\nPlease dont perpetuate your sexist myths about how males take direct action, and females are passive. Some of the people in the bloc were female, and they were out there bravely fighting while you whined about turning the other cheek at home. I find it sad that you are directed by how much media attention groups get, and not that there actually is a group publically speaking out against Mexicans. Since 9\/11, anti immigrant assholes have been gaining support, and that was printed in the newspaper by your beloved media. We must show opposition\r\n\r\n-Rampage","author":"Rampage","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 20:18:13","modified":"2002-03-26 20:35:05","fileurl":""},{"id":15730,"heading":"What's out of fashion?","article":"You know, when I called myself unfashionable, I was just being facetious. The people themselves decide what's \"in\" or \"out\". When a demonstration is called by people who are tolerant of violence, people stay away. But people come, in the thousands, to non-violent demonstrations. And by \"people\", I don't just mean habitual activists. look at the numbers, and tell me: WHO is out of fashion?\r\n\r\nPhysical confrontation, the ONLY thing that has ever beat back racists and fascists? How about the civil rights movement of the '60s? What got more results then? Please give me some examples of when violence has ever made people's lives better. \r\n\r\nAm I wrong for taking lessons from the '60s? I was just a baby then, but I seem to remember that the movement got something done then. What have we won lately? This is not a generational debate. Most youth do not agree with you, and even if they did, youth aren't always right just because they're young, and old(er) people aren't always wrong just because they're old. If they're right or wrong, it's not because of the accident of when they were born. Please do not attempt to split us up, or stereotype people by age. All youth aren't in favor of confrontation, and all elders, sadly, aren't against violence.\r\n\r\nDisparaging the importance of the media: organizing a movement means getting the word out. Getting the word out means, in part, using (and hopefully not being used by) the media. Why struggle in the first place if you don't care about building the movement? \r\n\r\nAlso, please don't personalize this debate with invective. I said nothing disparaging about the folks who showed up Saturday. As for machismo, I can only refer back to what I have seen, over and over, many times. If women also participate in physical confrontation, that doesn't make it any less wrong. For that matter, it doesn't make it any less macho. There have been women all through history who have adapted to the tactics of men. Why should things be any different on the left?","author":"Tom","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-26 23:29:14","modified":"2002-03-26 23:44:57","fileurl":""},{"id":15744,"heading":"You are a piece of shit","article":"You are a sexist asshole. Adapted to the tactics of men? I'm glad to see that you think MEN invented fighting back, and MEN invented aggression. I guess wimmin just can't think of their own tactics, unless its passive. Cos you know, wimmin should be in the kitchen baking cookies and not out on the barricades where everyone is macho! Maybe if you broke out of your egotistical priviliged idealogy where you think that you are so much better than the people who 'sink to their level', you might understand that you are just full of shit. I suppose you are just so much better then those who fought against the Mexican army in Chiapas, or the 23 people who died recently in Argentina fighting for the right to live. Yes you dont use violence, but you would be singing another song if it was your life at stake wouldn't you. You can U-lock yourself to a soda machine and they bring out the JAWs of Life and put you in jail for a day. We have comrades that are rotting away in prison! Men and wimmin have been constantly bravely fighting on the barricades throughout the world using 'violence' so that we can have liberation, while you scum smear your face all over the media screaming about how ignorant we are, and how you cowards are the only ones who care about the issues. We are the ones risking our lives and liberty only to come back and hear you cowardly liberals condemn us. Your pathetic weeping for the 60's is a bunch of liberal trash that can get us no where. You speak from your priviledge. Non-violence has only cost the movement, the only good things that happend in the sixties was the afrikan guerrilla groups, not the drugged out pacifists who waved piece signs. The whole white movement of pacifists ended up becoming yuppies! Martin Luther King even admitted that, \"America will never be free, unless there is a shadow of a black man standing behind me with a moltov cocktail in white america.\" The sooner you figure out that this is a war, and not some silly parade where we throw around flowers and puppets, the better. People need to wake up and start taking this struggle seriously. Stop fucking around and get your shit started.\r\n","author":"Rampage + Sheila","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-27 07:14:46","modified":"2002-03-27 07:43:39","fileurl":""},{"id":15752,"heading":"Hey, Rampage + Sheila....","article":"you are abusive,\r\n\r\nyou are ignorant of history,\r\n\r\nyou are stereotyping not only me but everyone else who believes in non-violent resistance,\r\n\r\nand the tone of your response to me indicates how far you will go with your tactics. Way to reach out, people!\r\n\r\nAnd, yes, you are still MACHO. Violence has always been a MACHO tactic. Using physical force to intimidate or dominate someone, is MACHO. Calling someone a \"coward\" for believing in peace and respect for human life, is definitely MACHO, MACHO, MACHO. I am ashamed for you, not for myself.\r\n\r\nI'll show you what a coward I am. I will debate this issue with you in public, in any forum, caf\u00e9 or auditorium (as long as peace-loving people are allowed to attend, and not just your comrades). To accept my challenge, you will have to stop hiding behind your Internet identity. Oh yes, I'm such a coward that I always use my real name on the Net. I stand behind my beliefs, you know what I'm saying?\r\n\r\n\"Coward,\" huh? Gandhi, King, Tolstoy, Dorothy Day, Joan Baez, Jean Donovan, the women of Greenham Common, the Catholic Workers -- what a bunch of friggin' cowards, all of them. Honestly.\r\n\r\nHere's a history lesson, even though you don't respect history. People today have the time and freedom to protest because of the longest, most sustained non-violent campaign in history: the labor movement! Decades upon decades of strikes and labor actions, which have raised the material living conditions of ALL workers in the country, whether unionized or not. These days, when the most exploited workers, the undocumented workers, are able to fight back, they are most successful when they use non-violent labor tactics: strikes, boycotts and appeals to the public's conscience.\r\n\r\nSaying only armed resistance ever accomplished anything in the Sixties -- that's just ignorant. Did armed resistance smash segregation and bring about voting rights and affirmative action?\r\n\r\nYou remind me of a couple of fundamentalist Christians, so in love with your own ideology that you won't listen to anything anybody else has to say.\r\n\r\nYou don't even know me, so don't call me \"privileged.\"  ","author":"Tom","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-27 15:25:35","modified":"2013-11-10 23:43:19","fileurl":""},{"id":15754,"heading":"Impatience.","article":"I think that Tom definitely brings in valid points - on the other hand - Rampage and Sheila are right on as well. Unfortunately, it is just so common that we get completely heated up in these rhetorical discussions over violence\/non-violence - \"one way or the other.\" (It shouldn't be one way or the other) \r\n\r\nI feel that it is matter of when to fall in and when to fall out; a diversity of tactics is always important. We just forget that we are all involved in a struggle here, and I assume that our struggles are obvious reflections of our personal and collective expieriences.\r\n\r\nAnd let me attempt to make a distinction ....Violence has always been a macho tactic? I would agree that violence is largely perpetuated from men and we do live in a patriarchical world, but how can one propose that limiting ourselves to non-violent tactics ONLY, is the way to win in a Social transformation\/Revolution. I personally would rather focus on non-violent means, in terms of education, community organizing, etc, etc... yet, how do you get through to a system whose language is violence. What about Self-Defense? And if you think about it, Offensive actions can be looked at as self-defense as well. \r\n\r\nThis action against those who are anti-immigrant, by the blac bloc reminds me of a nice little piece of artwork that the ARA uses... A drawing of a bunch roots who connect into flowers that bear Swastica symbols. It also shows a hand rip these flowers, roots and all, out of the ground. I don't totally remember the words underneath the artwork, but it seem to convey that we must stop fascism before it really gets the chance to grow larger. Opposition is important, especially against those who are white supremacists. Tactics relate to the heat of a situation. Sometimes we make mistakes, other times we make wise choices. \r\n\r\nTom mentions the labor movement in terms of non-violent struggle... Well, if you think about it, the labor movement in this country has also had a history of violence. Haymarket? And it is not like these tactics were unsuccessful...\r\n\r\n\"Saying only armed resistance ever accomplished anything in the Sixties -- that's just ignorant. Did armed resistance smash segregation and bring about voting rights and affirmative action?\"\r\n\r\nTom starts this sentence out in good direction, because it is true that it wasn't just armed resistence that won victories during the sixties, but YES, armed resistence and offensive direct action did play a part in achieving some of those issues Tom spoke of. The Black Liberation Movement, for example, had to be offensive and defensive. What about the uprisings in many Urban cities around that time...?\r\n\r\nName calling is bullshit. This happens too often over debates such as these. If this continues, which it will, we should try to focus on being more principled and comradely.\r\n\r\nWe don't beat people with word to develop understanding.","author":"Austin Delgadillo","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-27 18:56:45","modified":"2002-03-27 19:17:50","fileurl":""},{"id":15757,"heading":"JUST DON'T DO IT.","article":"Quit yer bickerin' and remember to show up at the Federal Building on the 6th to support Raisethefist etc.  PEACE!","author":"fluke","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-27 20:03:27","modified":"2002-03-27 20:47:10","fileurl":""},{"id":15762,"heading":"don't close your mind","article":"i think its dumb to say violence or non violence is never right. how can anyone say they have the answers for everything and that they know what is always right...\r\n\r\noviously many times the black bloc has been used when it shouldnt have been just like many times peaceful protests should have been more energized and stood up for themselves when attacked.  i think both tactics work but in different circumstances.\r\n\r\nAt this point our movement is small and we are struggling with one another.  we need to work on outreach and putting out a positive message.    dancing with a brick in my hand to the drum beat of the revolution is the only kind of violence i want.  i don't want the revolution if its not a moment of joy and freedom.   we shouldnt be motivated by hatred we should be motivated by solidarity and justice!  i know its hard to overcome your hatred cuz we live in this fucked up society but we all have to overcome our own demons.\r\n\r\nwe must remain open to all tactics and ideas.\r\ni think a forum over this would be good.  \r\n\r\n","author":"agent oliver clothesoff","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-27 21:54:58","modified":"2002-03-27 22:44:47","fileurl":""},{"id":15767,"heading":"Labor movements","article":"Labor movement, NONVIOLENT? Not only at haymarket, but  whenever labor has used tactics such as strikes, they have been attacked by by the police and the privte armies hired by their employers. The Homestead Strike, The Pullman Strike, railway stikes, mining strikes, factory strikes, Labor has always been attacked by the police, the army, and by private security forces. Look at how korean autoworkers at the daewoo factory have been attacked by police lately, would you expect them not to fight back. all that workers have now has been bought with blood.","author":"Max","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-28 03:03:40","modified":"2002-03-28 03:18:20","fileurl":""},{"id":15792,"heading":"Machoness and the BB","article":"I guess the criticism of macho behavior in black blocs needs to be raised, but I think this criticism is a bit off target. While there is some macho behavior in black blocs, what we're really talking about is simple aggressiveness (aggro). This point was raised by War Cry one time when I was on an IMC radio show with her and Starhawk. I forget what they both said, but both pointed out that this was mainly aggro behavior that can be found at all kinds of protests. There are plenty of women who engage in this behavior during black blocs. When a group of women breach a police line, is that \"aggro\" or \"macho?\"","author":"Chuck0","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-03-29 00:58:35","modified":"2002-03-29 01:28:22","fileurl":""},{"id":15835,"heading":"Tom is right","article":"Tom is right.  Practice non-violence.  Lets all stay home and ignore the issue.  Turn  the other way when they strike us.  Rampage- I'm gonna suck your dick when I see you!","author":"Crack Smoker","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-04-08 14:15:26","modified":"2002-04-08 14:30:36","fileurl":""},{"id":15904,"heading":"Tom is a big SISSY","article":"Tom is a big sissy!\r\nHe is using non-violence to hide like a sissy.\r\nWe can't have too many sissy's in our movement.\r\n","author":"anti sissy","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-04-10 01:54:21","modified":"2002-04-10 03:00:02","fileurl":""},{"id":15939,"heading":"About Tom","article":"Hey I respect Tom.  I dont care what Tom says.\r\nI have nothing against Tom.  He has been around for a long time and sometimes it's a good idea to listen even if we disagree with him.  Tom is a long time activist and did a lot of shit.\r\nDon't worry Tom we are not against you.\r\nPlease understand that not all Anarchist thinks the same.\r\nFrom- :)","author":"blah blah blah","parent_id":15695,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2002-04-16 00:41:11","modified":"2002-04-16 01:00:02","fileurl":""}]}