{"article":{"id":1648,"heading":"NY Times' Message: \"We Are Clueless.\"","author":"watcher","created":"2000-08-17 13:48:31","modified":"2000-08-17 18:41:07","last_modified":"Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:41:07","article":"

Source: NY Times, Aug. 16

Author: Neil Strauss

Headline:\"Protesters with no Message Except 'Let's not go home'\".

Random Quotes:





\"...they don't have a formal organization, membership, posters or agenda. But they are everwhere these days, causing all kinds of problems, chiefly because they don't want to go home and they want to be entertained.\"


\"...they made headlines at Woodstack '99 in Rome, NY when the festival ended unexpectedly early and the former Air Force base where it eas held erupted in arson and vandalism.\"


At the Rage show, \"...one LA resident said, as objects started flying, 'I came for a good time, and now I'm having one'. Was there anything in particular he was protesting? 'No', he said.\"


\"...Many of those interviewed before, during and after the confrontation harbored not a single political thought. 'I don't really have an opinion on the convention', said a 13-year-old Rage fan fro Torrance.\"<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"An article in today's Times lumps all protesters in the \"Neo-Woodstock-twenty-something-male-partier\" category.","numcomment":10,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2000\/08\/1648.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":1653,"heading":"Don't let them hear the end of it...","article":"I hope no one who sees this will let them go...\r\n\r\nto email a letter to the editor of the New York Times:\r\n\r\nletters@nytimes.com\r\n\r\nI have a problem about being put in the same group as some angry frat boys at a corporate rock concert....","author":"Brad","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 14:00:04","modified":"2000-08-17 14:17:13","fileurl":""},{"id":1659,"heading":"Maybe we are all clueless?","article":"Maybe we should quit this game of non-violent conformism and allow more of the kind of rioting we had in Rome, Ny for the Woodstock shenanigans. We are too bus being polite and thinking we are special for quoting Ghandi and allowing ourselves to be peppersprayed and beaten. The police state will out-wear any opposition as long as we play by THEIR rules and let them get us.","author":"anonie","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 14:28:53","modified":"2000-08-17 14:43:28","fileurl":""},{"id":1661,"heading":"Woodstock '99 as a role model?","article":"Suggesting we use Woodstock '99 as an example of how to act is simply ridiculous. Do you forget that many women were raped at Woodstock '99 in what the author of the previous statement calls \"shenanigans\"?","author":"Rachel","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 14:32:58","modified":"2000-08-17 14:45:48","fileurl":""},{"id":1662,"heading":"The other NYT poor too","article":"The front page NYT article about the police has some 3 seperate quotes from deleagtes about their views of police security and only interviews one protester.\r\n\r\nIt has no mention of the police marching down Olive street in column firing their weapons in the backs of retreating protesters and bystanders (which was out of view of watching delegates too).\r\n\r\nIt also doesn't mention that the first use of force by the police occurred before the concerts when anarchists tried to plant a flag i the fence and were repeatedly shot. The police initiated the use of projectiles and violence at about 6:30pm and we should keep that in mind.\r\n\r\nMany mainstream articles describe the police use of beanbags (actually lead powder bags) and rubber bullets as being fired against barages of concrete by protesters, which is completely untrue. The projectiles thrown were all at the south end of the fence while the police began to shoot people trying to leave the area at the north end. None of those police were ever attacked.\r\n\r\n(Excuse the typos, Im writing this at work and am rushed)","author":"sarin","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 14:35:45","modified":"2000-08-17 14:48:37","fileurl":""},{"id":1670,"heading":"who is clueless","article":"geez, again, ignorance must be bliss. to bad its not painful. it seems the nyt writers are the clueless ones. unfotunately, ignorance is profitable.","author":"ed reynolds","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 15:04:02","modified":"2000-08-17 15:18:18","fileurl":""},{"id":1686,"heading":"It's always the same damn story....","article":"The people are shut out of the process. They demonstrate. The cops crack down with ferocity resembling any dictatorship on Earth. The press reports it as a legitimate exercise in snuffing out a bad element. Everyone but a statistically undetectable minority\r\nbelieves them.\r\n\r\nThe LA Times did a similar hatchet job. \"What are they protesting?\"\r\n\r\nPeople, this is not working. The power structure will do what must to remain the power structure. It will continue to marginalize dissident elements and push the dialog relentessly to the Demopublican center. They'll cut down more trees (\"denies the anarchists a potential weapon\") and turn America into a prison, and Americans will gladly accept being prisoners.\r\n\r\nNew tactics are needed. Rioting at the cops will kill the movement, as well as many of the people in it. 30 different agendas will kill the movement. Tactics that give the other side semiotic ammo will kill the movement. Making the whole thing into a huge party, like they tried in the 60s, will kill the movement. Moral high-grounding and preaching to the choir, while the rest of the country remains totally ignorant of the doctrinal content will kill the movement.\r\n\r\nThis isn't working.\r\n\r\nLike it or not, there must be work done here, to sieze the dialog, insinuate into the language the way the Christian Right has, get out the word. The word is not out.\r\n\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nGet out the word\r\nTINA\r\n\r\n","author":"Hugh Stegman","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 15:36:00","modified":"2000-08-17 15:49:23","fileurl":""},{"id":1716,"heading":"Word Up...","article":"This is what I wrote to Mr. Strauss\r\n\r\n(this reflects my opinions and I would never speak for a group)\r\n\r\n********************************************************\r\n\r\nThis letter is being written in response to your article entitled, \"Protesters with no Message Except 'Let's not go home'\" (Source: NY Times, Aug. 16 Author: Neil Strauss). \r\n\r\nAfter reading Mr. Strauss' article I have reason to believe that he may not of been at the protests at all. I have a feeling that somehow he got confused and was actually inside the Democratic National Convention and\r\nmistakenly interviewed delegates as protesters. \r\n\r\nMy obvious sarcasm is stemming from the comments that he had made stating that these new protesters have no causes and are simply there to \"cause\r\nproblems\". Surprisingly, many newspapers including the NYTimes have already run articles on the many causes that these protesters support. With the huge\r\namounts of protest art work (ranging from puppets to placards) These causes are far more obvious in LA then they were in Philly. (due to the fact that Philly police confiscated many of the signs and puppets before they hit the streets). \r\n\r\nAnother item that distressed me from this article was his niave suggestion that these protests are somehow related to the riots and vandalism associated with Woodstock '99. The events of Woodstock '99 are an example of what happens when you combine angry frat boys, with drugs, no sleep, corporate consumer pseudo angst rock, bad security, and expect them to behave like the peace and love generation did before them. Woodstock '99 was a corporate sponsored testosterone party that just happened to go wrong. It was not a protest.\r\n\r\nThis new movement which Mr. Strauss quickly discredits is a very educated, non violent movement and I'm very proud to be a part of it. In response to\r\nthe outbursts (such as bottle and rock throwing by a few protesters) that have occured in the past few days I cannot say I completely condone this type of action. I will make the statement that police were created as public servants. Their duty is to, \"serve and protect\". I feel that the second police officers dawn riot gear and assault weapons they ascend from being public servants and become a military force. Their presence becomes threatening (can you imagine if the hippy protesters of the 60's had to stare down the barrel of a heavily armored urban soldier of today?). \r\n\r\nI hope that Mr. Struass will now take the time to interview a few more of these protesters. I'm sure that he will find that many of them feel very strongly about their causes (including education reform, Healthcare, helping the homeless, Prison reform, and getting corporate money out of politics and restoring a truer democracy). Maybe he could ask himself whether or not these wonderful delegates are willing to be shot at for their beleifs like these protetsers are.\r\n\r\nThank You for Your Time\r\n\r\n******************************************************\r\n\r\nNow everyone else should take the time and inform Mr. Strauss on their own views of the situation.\r\n\r\n","author":"Brad","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 16:31:55","modified":"2000-08-17 16:44:56","fileurl":""},{"id":1746,"heading":"Things to watch out for","article":"\r\n\r\n I think that in addition to creating our own media and appealing to the public that way, we must be awaire that because the corporate news is bending over backwards to discredit us, we can'tt give them the excuse. For example. I think that various actions could be disigned now around being humerously over clear to the point of rediculous huge spelled out cards stating the issues of corporate influence. This is not to say we aren't clear, I think the truth is that we are a little TOO clear about the problems and faults in this supposed democracy. I also think the media is disoriented because they can't really beleave what we stand for, it's too complex and radical for them.\r\n \r\n Nevertheless, \r\n I think it was a HUGE mistake to have that concert, ESPECIALLY to have RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE play for a number of reasons. The first is that they are CORPORATE ROCK, even though their lyrics are political. The second is they have followers who are rowdy, and aren't activists. Third, it gives the ENTIRELLY wrong impression to the people observing. AND THIRD< IT\"S JUST BAD MUSIC DESIGNED TO SELL< LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN CORPORATE CULTURE>EVEN IF IT\"S SELLING DISSSENT> I'm so angry at the d2k organizers for being so \"star-struck\" and STUPID to try to have some \"famous\" people come foward and strut their corporate stuff. WE DON\"T NEED THEIR HELP AND WE\"RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM OR ANY OTHER SELF-SELLING GROUPS> WE\r\nWANT ART AND CREATIVITY< AND beautey that we make OURSELVES. DIY (DO IT YOURSELF) God... I thought everyone KNEW this. \r\n\r\n Second, after the DNC we need to RADICALLY re-think the method and tactics of our lovely movemet\r\n or their won't be any movement left. This is a time for activism, absurdism, and festivals of resistance.\r\n Not dumb blowhard suito-musical groups. whew. just had to vent.","author":"Emma Wolfgirl","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 17:27:27","modified":"2000-08-17 17:42:03","fileurl":""},{"id":1748,"heading":"Things to watch out for","article":"\r\n\r\n I think that in addition to creating our own media and appealing to the public that way, we must be awaire that because the corporate news is bending over backwards to discredit us, we can'tt give them the excuse. For example. I think that various actions could be disigned now around being humerously over clear to the point of rediculous huge spelled out cards stating the issues of corporate influence. This is not to say we aren't clear, I think the truth is that we are a little TOO clear about the problems and faults in this supposed democracy. I also think the media is disoriented because they can't really beleave what we stand for, it's too complex and radical for them.\r\n \r\n Nevertheless, \r\n I think it was a HUGE mistake to have that concert, ESPECIALLY to have RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE play for a number of reasons. The first is that they are CORPORATE ROCK, even though their lyrics are political. The second is they have followers who are rowdy, and aren't activists. Third, it gives the ENTIRELLY wrong impression to the people observing. AND THIRD< IT\"S JUST BAD MUSIC DESIGNED TO SELL< LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE IN CORPORATE CULTURE>EVEN IF IT\"S SELLING DISSSENT> I'm so angry at the d2k organizers for being so \"star-struck\" and STUPID to try to have some \"famous\" people come foward and strut their corporate stuff. WE DON\"T NEED THEIR HELP AND WE\"RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM OR ANY OTHER SELF-SELLING GROUPS> WE\r\nWANT ART AND CREATIVITY< AND beautey that we make OURSELVES. DIY (DO IT YOURSELF) God... I thought everyone KNEW this. \r\n\r\n Second, after the DNC we need to RADICALLY re-think the method and tactics of our lovely movemet\r\n or their won't be any movement left. This is a time for activism, absurdism, and festivals of resistance.\r\n Not dumb blowhard suito-musical groups. whew. just had to vent.","author":"Emma Wolfgirl","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 17:28:04","modified":"2000-08-20 05:14:10","fileurl":""},{"id":1774,"heading":"heres what I fired off","article":" Its sad (but hardly surprising) to see a venerable institution like the New York Times debase itself so completely that it would see fit to print Mr Strauses ignorant fantasies as news.This is a prime example of the kind of anti democratic collusion between the media and the prison industrial complex that has tens of thousands of\r\npeople so angry that they are willing to take to the streets, and risk harrasment, tear gas, \"stinger rounds\", beatings, arrests, torture and imprisonment to speak their minds. \r\nThe thundering silence of the Times in the face\r\nof the the most important issues of our age will never succeed in keeping \r\nthese issues out of the public discourse,\r\nbut it may render the Times obsolete.","author":"grendel","parent_id":1648,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2000-08-17 18:41:07","modified":"2000-08-17 18:53:42","fileurl":""}]}