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Westwood Anti-Occupation Demonstration Pictures - Part 2 of 2

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Despite the one-day notice, about 400-500 people turned out to protest the day after the start of the second U.S. attack on the people of Fallujah. Mysteriously, two tanks arrived and were immediately surrounded by chanting demonstrators.

Westwood Anti-Occupa...
18_tankstoppedbydemonstrators2.jpg, image/jpeg, 760x570

Above: Tank Stopped by Demonstrators on Wilshire Blvd.

This story is the same as for part 1:

Despite the one-day notice, about 400-500 people came to the Westwood Federal Building on Tuesday night to protest the start of the second U.S. attack on the people of Fallujah, which had been officially launched on the previous day. To my own recollection, this is a record number for a demonstration called on such short notice.

As usual for such short-notice demonstrations at this location, most of the group stood on the sidewalk along Wilshire Blvd. waving signs and shouting to oncoming commuters in cars and buses, who frequently expressed their support by shouting and blowing their horns, and (much, much less frequently) expressed opposition. Smaller groups were stationed on each of the other three corners of the Wilshire and Veteran intersection, and as the lights changed some of these groups would parade across the intersection, making themselves still more visible to traffic.

About 7:30pm, two tanks barreled past going East on Wilshire, rounded the corner onto Veteran going South, and disappeared.

About ten or fifteen minutes later, two tanks (apparently the same ones) appeared again going East on Wilshire and stopped for the light there. Demonstrators immediately stepped in front of the lead tank, blocking its path, and started to chant "U.S. Out!" at the soldiers, whose heads and torsos were clearly visible and who evidently exchanged a few words with protestors.

The soldiers seemed amused and not really unfriendly. Unfortunately, a few of our protestors chanted "murderers!" at the soldiers, although in general I think we were more sophisticated than that, realizing that many soldiers are victims themselves who were recruited through propaganda, guile, and economic incentives that the very poor can find it difficult to refuse.

I have no idea why they were there, and neither did anyone else that I asked.

Both tanks were surrounded on three sides by protestors for about three or four minutes until the LAPD showed up and placed themselves between tanks and protestors, and cleared the protestors who were blocking the front tank out of the road. I did not witness any brutality as this occurred, nor am I aware of any arrests having been made.

The tanks then proceeded to turn right onto Veteran and disappeared from view.

Our protest continued following this incident. If sending tanks driving by was meant to intimidate us, it definitely did not succeed, and in fact had the opposite effect.

Thus, we citizens of conscience in Los Angeles have joined people around the world in expressing our public opposition to a U.S. policy of dealing death and mayhem to the citizens of Iraq in general and to those of Fallujah in particular.

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Tank Stopped by Demonstrators

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Tank Stopped by Demo...
19_tankstoppedbydemonstrators.jpg, image/jpeg, 760x570

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Tank Surrounded by Demonstrators

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Tank Surrounded by D...
20_tanksurroundedbydemonstrators.jpg, image/jpeg, 760x570

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Second Tank Approached by Demonstrators

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Second Tank Approach...
21_secondtankapproachedbydemonstrators.jpg, image/jpeg, 770x595

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Second Tank Surrounded by Demonstrators

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Second Tank Surround...
22_secondtanksurroundedbydemonstrators.jpg, image/jpeg, 770x542

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Tanks Surrounded by Demonstrators

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Tanks Surrounded by ...
23_tankssurroundedbydemonstrators.jpg, image/jpeg, 733x550

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Tank Commander Negotiates Terms of His Surrender

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Tank Commander Negot...
24_tankcommandernegotiatestermsofhissurrender.jpg, image/jpeg, 760x570

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Police Protect Tank from Demonstrators

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Police Protect Tank ...
25_policeprotecttankfromprotestors.jpg, image/jpeg, 733x550

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Crew of Second Tank that was Stopped by Demonstrators

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Crew of Second Tank ...
26_crewofsecondtankstoppedbydemonstrators.jpg, image/jpeg, 750x563

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Demonstrators Chant U.S. Out at Tanks

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

Demonstrators Chant ...
27_demonstratorschantusoutattanks.jpg, image/jpeg, 750x563

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U.S. Our of Iraq and Fallujah!

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 6:06 PM

U.S. Our of Iraq and...
28_usout.jpg, image/jpeg, 438x570

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SEE PART 1 OF THIS ARTICLE FOR MORE PICTURES

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 7:50 PM

Part 1 of this article can be accessed here:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/118925.php

For some reason, the main page linked only to part 2.

--IBEF

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maaaAAAan!

by gee Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 8:41 PM

I wanted to see tanks!

tsk...*sigh* calm yo ass down!

Those were not TANKS, those where light armored vehicles LAVs or APCs (armored personel carriers) some police tactical units have one or two of these. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/lav-25.htm These were probably national guardsman out for a joyride (it's probably near a national guard armory) big big difference between the two vehicles.

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a M242 25mm chain gun

by Sheepdog Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 8:51 PM

is not a pea shooter. And niether is a 7.62 machine gun.
The chasis can also mount a 130 mm gun turret.

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us out

by mike Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 10:11 PM

u.s. out of north america

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heres an info article

by chicagoan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 10:27 PM

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/11/10/0844742

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Reminds me of a joke

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 10:29 PM

Q. Why has there never been a coup in the United States?

A. Because there's no U.S. embassy there.

Hope this rule continues to hold!

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The

by Fool Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 10:35 PM

In checking around a few places I am comfortable with the knowledge that it was an iinnocent mistake. Apparently the tanks were in town for the upcoming holiday and was accoring to one report asking for directions. Of course I didn't discover this until after I had called my sister my father-in-law my partner a few friends and my stepson. My advise is before reacting do a little extra fact checking least you look like the fool.

The Fool

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tanks

by Joe Palacios Thursday, Nov. 11, 2004 at 11:39 PM

I a Non Commissioned Officer that was in the so-called tanks, which to be correct they are Light Armored Vehicles, I would just like to let everyone that has read your article know, we were not sent out in response of any protest. I do believe that in this country we all have the right to gather peacefully and voice our opinions. I take great pride in that, why else would I join the very thing that ensures us of that right. I mean the US Marines who have been safe guarding this nation from all enemies that would attempt to take those very rights the group last night was exercising. I would just like to add that there is nothing wrong with protesting a war you feel is wrong, but there is something very wrong, when during your protest of that war to wish harm on those young men and women who have sworn an oath to protect you and to make it so you can go out a voice your opinion. I think it is amazing how so many people protest us for doing our jobs. Did any of you know that in Iraq before we were there they would not gather to voice their dislike of Saddam policies do you think it because they like the policies... or maybe because they knew that if they did protest him tanks would show up and it wouldn’t be because they took the wrong turn off the highway and need to find there way to a celebration of freedom, and to honor those men and women who serve the very people who protest them. They would be there to, an I am sorry to say, kill them. Well not in this country, not on my watch. So, please voice your opinions yell them out, but in the future don’t jump to conclusions, and please for safety reasons don’t jump in front a tank, or any type of armored vehicle it just not safe or very smart. I also hope that you would support your troops we would prefer to be home, but we don’t leave until our job is done and done right because then the deaths suffered on both side are for nothing.
I really hope that every who reads this will take the true meaning of my response. Which is I love this country, I love the people of this great place, I love the liberties we have, and I would fight against all who tried to take those liberties from us whether it be some rouge nation or if it where right here. We are not your enemy we are your shield we lay our lives down so you may be free.
Thank You

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Draftee Nazi Military Was Just Doing Its Job

by Socialist Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 1:11 AM

The Nazi military was mostly draftees, unlike the volunteer Nazi USA military. It too was just doing its job killing human beings both in combat and as participants in perpetrating the Holocaust; the Wehrmacht did both.

A soldier by definition is a paid professional murderer. The reason the military teaches soldiers to use a gun is so that they will kill their fellow workers for the profits of the capitalist class. That is the only reason the military exists. It does not exist to promote freedom as it destroys freedom by definition. It exists to promote profits.

The story of the Nazi military perpetrating the Holocaust may be found in Masters of Death by Richard Rhodes, Random House/Vintage, 2002.

Be careful when you use German expressions. When Kennedy said ich bin ein Berliner, he was saying that he is a jelly donut!

The Judgment at Nuremberg is clear: Just doing your job is no excuse from responsibility for a soldier's murderous, in fact, genocidal deeds.

Until these soldiers are out of uniform for good, they are certainly murderers.

It is outrageous that the Los Angeles Veterans' Day parade apparently intended to use these tanks in their parade. It is certainly a good reminder of the profound waste of our tax dollars and the contempt the warmongers have for all of us.

As to getting in front of tanks, those tanks had no business being on our streets.

I have read stories of soldiers, both men and women, saying they had a choice between working at a pizza place and joining the military, and they chose the latter! Any civilian job is better than joining the military. It is insane for anyone to choose to be a murderer, which is all a soldier is. A soldier is just cannon fodder for the profits of the war profiteers.

As those of us who easily remember what it took to end the Vietnam war watch this latest round of stupidity, we know that it took over 58,000 body bags before Americans had enough. We wonder how many body bags it will take before Americans have enough of this latest blood for oil genocidal war.

It is long overdue that the workingclass soldiers learn not to fight the bosses' wars but to fight the bosses here at home to organize labor.

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They were tanks

by Anti-Fascist Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 2:22 AM

These were tanks as it is evident. Both have canons on them.

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Pssst...

by Arthur Frayn Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 7:26 AM

It's not a tank. See the wheels? Tanks don't have tires, they have caterpillar treads.

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Welcome to Amerika Comrad

by Ben Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 7:39 AM

RED DAWN BABY...GET USE TO IT !

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RESIST THE CRIMINALIZATION OF DISSENT!

by Charlie Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 8:55 AM
itsmindbogling@hotmail.com

In response to the fascist statements made by a member of an organized crime group, otherwise known as the US military, I would like to express my supreme disgust at him, and the other fascists who deployed the militant presence in the face of peaceful, an law abiding citizens. It is disgusting to know that he thinks that by patrolling the actions of a peaceful protest on the streets of one of the largest cities in the USA, in an armored and armed vehicle, that he is making the world a better and more “secure” place. The actions of the government at this protest is not only despicable and irreprehensible, but if fundamentally un-American!
This is just another blatant military and police action that attempts to justify a criminalization of dissent, a tactic that is being used coast-to-coast, in order that voices of resistance and opposition to the war are quashed and punished for expressing their first amendment rights. The number of those who oppose the war, and the criminal actions of police here in the United States will only increase because of actions such as this, and other countless instances of police brutality across the land. These types of attempts at suppression are not only ignorant and unjust, they are also futile. The harder the state will try to suppress dissent, the more citizens will slip through their fingers.
When the non-commissioned officer Joe Palacios states that he is just doing his job, and that he “love(s) the liberties we have, and I would fight against all who tried to take those liberties from us whether it be some rouge nation or if it where right here. We are not your enemy we are your shield we lay our lives down so you may be free.” That is a nice and heartfelt message, one that is a bit misguided. Too bad that his actions contradicts his words. If the US government, and the military, made it a regular habit of patrolling the streets in armored vehicles, and just happened to cross paths with the protestors on Tuesday night would be one thing. But that is not the case (and hopefully will never be), and the “chance” occurance, that in a city, as large as LA, that “armored vehicles” would be in the vicinity, is highly unlikely.
I am disgusted at the actions these occurred in LA on Tuesday, and I hope the citizens of LA, and in communities across the nation, do something to insure that this suppression of dissent will not happen again.
In resistance-
Charlie
Tucson, AZ, “refuse and resist!”

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TVProducer

by Patricia Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 9:00 AM
ppeart@msnbc.com 201-583-5697 1 msnbc plaza

Ich Bin Ein Fallujan - I am trying to reach you to discuss a television interview or at the very least viewing your tape - please email me at panvenus@verizon.net or pan2767@aol.com.

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Falluja burns, tanks roll in LA

by Paintball Johnny Federicci Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 9:05 AM
johnmarkk1960@yahoo.com

A sad a dismal verteran's day in little old america. The ordinary people Falluja are sealed into a death trap, as the guys and goons with guns duke it out. Great to see my tax dollars at work pulverizing the cradle of civilization into DNA material. Get the point? Object to the war and they send in the tanks. Photo-op? Goofy? A rather benign showing yes? Wait until the real rallies mass...when Falluja is taken a third, a fourth time...take to the streets, ya'll. For the ordinary peace mongering citizens of the world. Passionate,
patriotic, pacifist.

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Curious

by Concerned Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 9:05 AM

Looks staged. I have seen conflicting reports on this and Indy media about what they were, they're not big enough to be Strykers, yet I read a very empassioned post from a supposed marin noncom about how they were just lost Marines from a Marine stryker brigade.

And at least one close up photograph shows "Major Hiner" in civvy head gear.

I call bullshit until I see some corroboration from something other than alarmists. Last time I was in LA, I almost accidentally got into a NYC taxi cab and got hassled by copes in NYPD uniforms. Turns out they were filming Spiderman 2 next door.

And yes, I voted for Kerry, as I am sure someone will accuse me of being with the facsists.

People are so angry that you will believe everything anti government, and if someone raises a question about the veracity of your claims, you go "Bush and Ashcroft" on them. Be mindful of that when replying. I'm a skeptic, that's why I don;t believe ANYTHING I read without corroboration (especially the crap spewed by our current government).

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Uh, Hello?

by Imma Lefty Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 9:46 AM

Hello LA?

Today is Veteran's Day. The APC's probably WERE lost. But boy howdy, it just get's all you chickens squawking that they DARED to bring "tanks" into LA to intimidate a bunch of peaceful protestors! What propaganda! This is pure speculation and conclusion-jumping to extreme!

Think about it. Seriously, do you really think they need to bring in the military yet when the LA police force pretty much kicks ass whenever they are around? They don't need marines in LA when the cops are so well armed! Do you remember the Demo convention? That wasn't the Marines or National Guard beating on your heads!

I take the word of the soldier who wrote in, whose opinions I respect. I respect, yet I seriously disagree with many of his presumptions about who makes whom free, but then when I read later comments from a butthead who calls himself "socialist", it makes me want to drive a tank through LA myself; maybe through a couple of offices of various sectarians whose support of the same tank driving policies of various Stalinist regimes would make what happened last night look like a tour through Willie Wonkas Chocolate factory.

Get a grip people. Just because Bush won doesn't mean the next step is the gas chambers. You better start fighting the small battles for hearts and minds before you throw the baby out with the bath water.

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who going to do it

by tired of stupidity Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 10:02 AM

You are not going to ensure of the very liberties you have without us murderers, if we weren't around to do our job, you find so horriable, you would be in a nazi state do you even know what a nazi is I really don't think you do. I had a chocie to and I choose to protect your freedom so you can sit in you comfortable living room an call me a murderer Thank you

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Please don't demonize the soldiers

by Ayesha Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 10:23 AM
outspoken@outspokenclothing.com

...especially the ones who cared enough to post here. Remember Vietnam and the vets who suffered because protesters couldn't separate the soldiers (who didn't want to be there) from the imperialist government that sent them. I am not sayng soldiers shouldn't be held accountable for war crimes or intimidation, but please remember: Most of the young men and women in our military today are victims of the economic/racial draft. They come from poor and oppressed communities and joining the military feels like their only hope for a better life. So please, be understanding and keep fighting to BRING THEM HOME so they, and innocent Iraqis, don't have to die for rich bastards like Bush and his corporate buddies.

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Sorry to spoil your fun...

by Kurt Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 12:05 PM
kurt@team-wolf.org

I watched this movie of yours and something hit me. Why would the Marines dispatch 2 "Tanks" to quell a riot in LA. The main thing that got me thinking about this was the fact that "tanks" never perform any sort of policing action without proper infantry support (after all we have all seen Saving Private Ryan, and how simple it is to blow up a tank when you get close to it). Then I realized that wait, my unit wanted volunteers to go to LA to be in a Veteran's Day Parade riding around in an M2, the Army's version of the "tank" pictured in this movie.

Then I really got thinking about it, where did these Marines and their "tanks" (from now on we will call it an LAV) come from? The Marines don't have a lot of troops in the LA area. Actually I don't think they have any active duty bases.

Therefore there are only 2 possibilities here, they are reservists or they where participating in a convo (either a military move, or for a v-day parade) and got harassed by the protesters as they drove by.

Now say they are reservists called out to quell the riot as we are lead to belive. Just think about that for a second....

Marine Corp Reservists, just like Army and Air Force are all federally controlled. Yet riots is a state issue which mean Gov Arnold Schwarzenegger would have to activate the Army National Guard on to state active duty.

Overall, after viewing the film and reading the post on it, and using my knowledge of the military, I would have to say we are not getting the full story, are being herded into a decision. Just like Fox News is for the right, this article and movie are a prime example of leftist crap.

31C

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Hey rednecks

by nascarblue Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 12:39 PM

HAHAHA, I've got to laugh. People can be so stupid. No wonder Bush won. You all can't be that stupid. This is in front of the Federal Bldg lamebrains! And if you knew two sh#ts you would know about all the different types of armored vehicles. Even you armchair rednecks who's sole knowledge comes from Fox news, video games and movies should recognize these as APC's.One guy thinks this is a set up cuz its in LA. He hints that it's a movie set and because one of the soldiers has "Scott " brand goggles, the whole thing is BS. HEllo?!?! Soldiers going to Iraq are given flak jackets that were used in Vietnam and won't even protect them from shrapnel! The billionaire oil nazis that you all just elected can't even dish out for a new ceramic plated vest! But they can dish out billions for Halliburtons Kellogg and Brown Iraq Oil Supplies! First off, its Bush's federal policy to send the national guard to any protests. This was put into policy in 2000. Plus every protest has undercover federal agents sent immediately posing as fellow protestors. Get a clue. Secondly, how can you not support a soldier who names himself "tired of the stupidity" yet he can't even spell or form a complete sentence! No wonder you're in the army buddy. Rather than argue like angry pimply 14 year old rednecks, get some education! Go to iraq-today.com to get the REAL truth. Also BBC and The Guardian out of England arent bad , but you can forget about US news. BUSH LIED!

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Hey rednecks

by nascarblue Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 12:41 PM

HAHAHA, I've got to laugh. People can be so stupid. No wonder Bush won. You all can't be that stupid. This is in front of the Federal Bldg lamebrains! And if you knew two sh#ts you would know about all the different types of armored vehicles. Even you armchair rednecks who's sole knowledge comes from Fox news, video games and movies should recognize these as APC's.One guy thinks this is a set up cuz its in LA. He hints that it's a movie set and because one of the soldiers has "Scott " brand goggles, the whole thing is BS. HEllo?!?! Soldiers going to Iraq are given flak jackets that were used in Vietnam and won't even protect them from shrapnel! The billionaire oil nazis that you all just elected can't even dish out for a new ceramic plated vest! But they can dish out billions for Halliburtons Kellogg and Brown Iraq Oil Supplies! First off, its Bush's federal policy to send the national guard to any protests. This was put into policy in 2000. Plus every protest has undercover federal agents sent immediately posing as fellow protestors. Get a clue. Secondly, how can you not support a soldier who names himself "tired of the stupidity" yet he can't even spell or form a complete sentence! No wonder you're in the army buddy. Rather than argue like angry pimply 14 year old rednecks, get some education! Go to iraq-today.com to get the REAL truth. Also BBC and The Guardian out of England arent bad , but you can forget about US news. BUSH LIED!

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Joes Tank

by nascarblue Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 12:54 PM

Joe, now that's what I like to hear. It's nice to hear we have some guys with brains and tolerance. You make sense and I 100% support a soldier like you though I'm opposed to this war. Saddam is gone, no WMD's, those boys should have been pulled out of there last year. But with Bush and Cheneys oil agenda and billions invested in oil contracts, no one's leaving. SO for the past 10 months, gun happy rednecks have been going hog wild stealing everything in sight, shooting pedistrians and ambulances, dropping 1000 ton radioactive uranium bombs. Bush believes he's fighting a holy war and that this is the Rapture. In other words...Armaggedon.

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Kurt

by nascarblue Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 1:06 PM

You sure act like you know it all, but YOU KNOW NOTHING. Over and over in your LAV post you make mistakes. Don't you get it yet? 9-11? Bush? Bush is the real Bin Laden. Man people can be so ignorant. 1st off this is a real LAV. Secondly its in front of the federal bldg on Wilshire where since the 50's all large demonstrations and protests have taken place. As a matter of fact they had an anthrax terrorist threat as well as numerous bomb threats. In other words the building the were in front of houses the FBI, CIA, and who knows what else. Get it? Federal Building? Doh!

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LA Does Not Even Give Justice, Allow Burning of Courthouses

by Kurt Brown, veteran/forced injection Felony Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 1:58 PM
USA, the land that heaven forgot

It is ironic that those tank guys may be the next forced federal government experiments and yet they look as though they are prepared to kill Americans.

I was a federal bank examiner and noticed a murder labeled suicide by fed police of a FDIC director. I blew the whistle. I was attacked. I fled. I was found near the LA VA graveyard, broke and homeless with a U Haul.

The VA injected and then the fed had the LA superior court prosecute me and forced a felony plea while abusing me in jail. Now they do not even give the right to a trial by jury.

Burn the federal building in LA and then burn their court systems. Burn everything those bastards use to tie our hands, our necks, and our minds.

We are not a nation of justice. We are a nation under seige. Damn the regime. Let it burn, Democrat and Republican. They are at war with us. Pity their ignorant baton wielders and tank drivers. If they knew the enemy was hidden behind the plastic mask of Hollywood and DC, they would fire their weapons at the courthouses.

Any man can kill a woman in LA and get away with it if he can pay their judges. The tyranny spreads East down interstate 10.

Some say I am lucky to be alive after two attempts on my life and abuse you can only imagine. I would feel lucky had I never been born into the USA in the 1960's.

Hollywood should be trampled and burned everytime those tanks show up, and when that does not work, their courthouses with their judges who are guilty of war crimes should be decimated.

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Idiots-tanks have treads, not wheels

by Outlands Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 5:11 PM

Screaming "TANK!!" is just scare-mongering - call them what they area - "Armored Vehicles" or LAV-25's.

Lessee - tanks typically have treads like a bulldozer - the Striker/LAV-25 family vehicles have 8 wheels. Tanks typically have main guns of 75mm+, the LAV-25/Striker has a "hopped-up machinegun" of 25mm (roughly 1" and about twice as big as the standard .50 BMG M2 machine-gun. Tanks are typically transported by special truck or by rail, LAVs are driveable pretty much anywhere. (I should know, I was an anti-tank infantryman in the Marines.)

I would have thought they'd have a hummer escort or something, but who knows.

The hue and cry'ers don't seem to have really bothered checking into where the LAV's went next. Don't think they asked the protesters what went down, either. All just a "CONSPIRACY TO TAKE OUR RIGHTS!!!" Nope, not this time.

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Dear Dum Dum Leftwing Nutcases

by JoeRamone Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 5:20 PM
yourmother@bushrocks.com 01-011-5784-8544 Bush's White House

Dear Dum Dum Leftwin...
allyourbasebush.jpg, image/jpeg, 429x269

Dear Left wing radicals who lack the slightest smidgen of investigative journalism.

These "Tanks" were going to a VFW hall and were lost, the old men inside even asked the protesters directions.

Please get off the prozac, crack, or whatever else you are smoking, oh yeah, and take a bath while you are at it.

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To: TVProducer

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 5:42 PM

Patricia,

You want the guy who did the video, then, and that was not me, nor do I know who did it. You should leave a message on the page with the video. That guy has no name at all, so he should be easy to find - just search on the Internet :-) .

All that I have are the images posted to this site. I do have all of these images at a higher resolution, as those posted were reduced for presentation on Indymedia, but these are the best that I have otherwise.

if you want the higher resolution images, let me know by commenting on this page and they will be posted in full res as another article. An interview with me would be of no interest, as I am just a guy with a (rather basic) camera.

By the way, the "Ich Bin Ein Fallujan" monicker is a reference to Kennedy's speech at the Berlin wall where he famously said "Ich bin ein Berliner," by which he meant that he stood in solidarity with the people of Berlin against what he saw as the evil empire of the day (the U.S.S.R.). My intention is to communicate solidarity with the Fallujans, who are being victimized by what is undeniably the evil empire of today's world, with its myriad military bases encircling the planet.

--IBEF

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Um

by Justin Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 6:00 PM

That's insane that there were millitary vehicles in LA, let alone there by a protest.

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You have got gutts

by William Meadows Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 7:09 PM
READIT20032000@yahoo.com Carbondale, IL.62902

You folks have got a lot of courage to protest in the light of tanks and humvies. That is a lmost a powerful a statemnet as the guy standing in front of the tank in China. Some people else where are even to affraid to even get out and hold a sign up. Like here in Illinois that is about the extent of our protests.

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nascarblue

by Kurt Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 7:56 PM

I wish you would point out the mistakes I made "over and over again". I never said they were fake LAVs, I just said they were probably on their way to a parade.

The main point was why would "they" send 2 LAVs all the way from Oceanside when the LAPD has sufficent armored vehicles that can be used to quell protests of this size. If you stop and think about it, as a rational person such as yourself would, you would realize it does not make sense.

I won't even ask about why you think George W and Bin Laden have anything to do with Marines in LA.

Kurt.

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Mrs

by Susan Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 9:18 PM
Susa27@chartermi.net

Left wing nut cases?????looking for the VFW???
Ever hear of fascism??? That is what the good old USA has turned into??? Happen over the last four years??? NO...it has been gradual, but Mr. Bush kicked it up a notch or two real fast. Do we ALL have to be concerned??? you bet cha...unless you think the world will end soon. Which probably you do.

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fuck the ramones

by mimik Friday, Nov. 12, 2004 at 9:53 PM

hey joe ramone,
what the fuck is that sign you posted supposed to mean. the statement is totally nonsensical. is this supposed to be a quote from Bush? or is that simply the kind of mystificatory political propaganda that Bush supporters fall for these days?

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Remember who you are bashing...

by John Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 12:25 AM
jfares@mindless.com

Just remember, this "imperialist," "fascist" government and it's court systems are what give you the right to bash them, I'd say that's pretty damn free. Just step back from your viewpoints for a moment and think objectively. 51 million people cannot all be retarded. It's not statistically possible. AND, the world as we know it is not coming to an end under George W. He's not that powerful. The Democrats have another chance in '08. I can only hope they don't screw it up again with Hilary Clinton, and I might vote their way.

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Was it Veterans' Day?

by MikeS Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 1:38 AM

You might be making something out a mere coincidence. If someone bothered to check, they'll probably find the LAV-25s were deploying for a Veterans' Day celebration and stopped to check directions. Points to consider:

- Who in their right mind would send _just_ two LAVs to intimidate a protest? That would be against all doctrine for using light armored vehicles. And the fact that none of the crewmen seemed to be armed should tell us something, as well. If the authorities were concerned, wouldn't there have been swarms of cops out first?

- The use of federal troops for such a purpose would be big news (even if Marines are not subject to Posse Comitatus). It would have required a formal federal order under Title 10. And if they were reservists deployed for riot control, it would have taken a Governor's order under Title 32. Does anyone think this dinky protest would warrant such attention?

- As to why they stopped where they did? Hey, they stopped in front of a federal building! What better place to ask directions or to make a phone call? Where should they have stopped - a 7/11?

- I note that no one seems to have bothered to ask anyone in authority why they were there. A couple phone calls should have cleared it all up (or given more evidence of governmental menace). Has anyone thought to call the Public Affairs office at the nearest Marine base? Likewise, note that while it's mentioned that the crews spoke with the protestors in a friendly way, no one bothered to ask the protestors what was said. If they had, the probable words would have been something like, "Hey, do you know where the VFW is, around here?"

Are we done wasting bandwidth, yet?

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These were APC's not TANKS

by Gordon Scott Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 2:56 AM
gordsmail@shaw.ca 604.780.5850 Vancouver BC

Contrary to the writers description of these military vehicles, these were falsly described as tanks, in fact they are APC's Amoured Personnel Carriers.

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Distractions

by rojo y negro Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 7:41 AM

What distractions! The point is that there were armored vehicles at a demonstration. And some people want you to think that some lost Marines (they're not the brains of the military apparently) would stop by a fed building to ask for directions AT NIGHT!

Then, of course is the "you wouldn't have freedom" if it wasn't for the vets. When's the last time your right to vote, speak freely, or assemble was threatened by a foreign power? Now ask yourself, how often has it been threatened by the US government, and these "nice" troops, cops, and federal agents?

We don't have to demonize anyone, but we also don't have to get suckered into needless compassion for the agents of imperialism either.

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In Other Words...

by MikeS Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 9:17 AM

...don't try to introduce any other possibilities while I've got a good rant going! :)

rojo y negro wrote:

"What distractions! The point is that there were armored vehicles at a demonstration. And some people want you to think that some lost Marines (they're not the brains of the military apparently) would stop by a fed building to ask for directions AT NIGHT!

Then, of course is the "you wouldn't have freedom" if it wasn't for the vets. When's the last time your right to vote, speak freely, or assemble was threatened by a foreign power? Now ask yourself, how often has it been threatened by the US government, and these "nice" troops, cops, and federal agents?

We don't have to demonize anyone, but we also don't have to get suckered into needless compassion for the agents of imperialism either."


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ms

by Adrien Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 9:42 AM
eandubh@pacificnet.net

someone wrote:

. . . . . . ."Just remember, this "imperialist," "fascist"
government and it's court systems are what
give you the right to bash them, I'd say that's
pretty damn free."

WRONG! Neither the government nor the courts GIVE us our rights. They were laid out as self-evident in the Constitution, and as Jefferson and ther est predicted, it has taken constant vigilance to keep them from being destroyed by power-mongers. Every generation of citizens has produced enough freedom-minded people to fight for our freedoms - not in Iraq, right here in America.

. . . . . ." Just step back from your viewpoints
for a moment and think objectively. 51
million people cannot all be retarded.
It's not statistically possible.. . . . .

Maybe not retarded, but 51 million people can be the victims of an American education - PLUS the lies the Bush administration has used to drive us all into this ill-considered war against all the bad guys everywhere. A majority of Bush supporters don't know that Saddam had no link to Al Quaeda, nor any WMDs, etc. That's not retarded, but it sure is DUMB.

. . . ."AND, the world as we know it is not
coming to an end under George W. He's
not that powerful.". . . . .

NOT THAT POWERFUL!! The head of the wealthiest, most powerful empire in history! And one who has the advice of the neoconservative movement - bent on permanent hegemony - and the nutcake religious right - hell bent for Apocalypse! Gee, what does a guy have to do to be powerful these days, I wonder?

". . . . . .. The Democrats have another chance
in '08. . . . . ."

Yeah, by that time, Bushm Cheney, Halliburton and co. may have invaded two or three more of the administration's many targets, turned the Supreme Court over to the religious right wing extremists he loves, and pretty much canceled the Bill of Rights.

". . . . . .I can only hope they don't screw it up
again with Hilary Clinton, and I might
vote their way."

If we ever HAVE another legitimate election, that is. . . . . . . .because between electronic voting machines, a thoroughly propagandized electorate, an opposition party that knows all the tricks (roll over, play dead, heel, and sit pretty, I mean) - there's little enough reason to vote now. The vote is rapidly beginning to look like a complete sham.






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Now the real truth about the Bradleys...

by Jerry Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 10:40 AM

LOL... too funny

I work for PM Bradely on Ft Hood (so I'm in the know on this) and we've alredy heard about this through our e-mail.

Those Bradley were from the National Guard and were in a Veterans Day parade/ display some where in your area.

They were on there way back to the armory (where they are parked) when they passed your sudden "protest".

I wonder if the organizers knew of the route the Bradley were going to take and purposely staged your "quick" protest to be along its route.

Sounds to me like that s the real truth about the Bradley drive by and not some dark secret government conspiracy to crush you anti war types under tank treads... What a hoot, you guys will stop at nothing. I have my own opinion about the war in Iraq but I will always support our troops. The jerks that yelled baby killer or what ever only help freak'in Bush win his re-election. Too bad THEY didn't get run over...(just kidding)

Just my two cents worth...

P.S. do you have more pictures? We want to add them to our Bradley picture board...:-)

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Opps sorry folks...

by Jerry... Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 10:45 AM

Sorry Folks, those were the wheeled Stryker armored cars... Not the Bradley...

They kinda look the same from the top...:-)

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Treason is the crime!

by Gordon Soderberg Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 10:48 AM
gordonsoderberg@mac.com

These lost boys in their military toys don't get let out on the street without authorization. To use them in this way dishonors them and the constitution. Somebody gave them the keys and the orders to go and they did what they were told! Now their chain of command needs to held accountable for turning them out on the streets of L.A.

Bush and his KKKlan have committed many acts of treason. They should all get a fare trial, and then HUNG for treason and their crimes against humanity!

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armor no coincidence

by l.a. sucks Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 10:56 AM
none none none

has anyone ever seen armored vehicles in daily traffic? has anyone bumped into more that one or two protests in their life while driving, much less driven around the block and stopped to observe the protesters?

nobody is claiming this was an emergency deployment specifically to quell or disperse the demonstration, alongside ten bike cops. that doesn't mean we buy the "lost and asking directions" theory (who the hell seeks directions from a federal building after dark? don't they have radio procedures or a cell phone for asking directions of command? yes if otherwise or if simply embarrassed, in fact maybe they WOULD ask a 7/11.)

my guess? yes, most likely this was intentional theatre, not a freakish coincidence. 5 miles from the WTC, in a region filled with bases of all kinds, i have never seen armored vehicles in traffic. also, "old men"? that soldier pointing has body armor on. this is not a trucking run.

screw the coincidence theory. that's cover for mainstream media. "oh, stupid lost marines. miles from their intended route, happen to circle the block to stop at a protest. oh o.k., it's veteran's day. can't explain why i never saw this in dozens of prior parades...mere coincidence."

go away. they had orders. this was no joy ride.

because there is another historically important parade coming up at the inauguration and the administration badly want folks to stay home and has a history of both theatre and incredible brutality.

sure, the talk of civil war and secession is silly hyperbole. but they expect trouble or embarassment this january. the idea seems reasonable that they would find a legit way to saber rattle with a little armor, about like this much, but in a way that avoids NBC attention (hence the implausible veteran's day coincidence cover story ). it was intended that these vehicles' appearance would (a) circulate the left internet but (b) not make the news and cause centrist backlash, because rigorous journalists notice that it's veteran's day and don't want to sound like the conspiracy blogosphere.

this theory fits the information about perfectly. if it hadn't already happened, i would suggest they throw some similar "coincidence", given their needs.

here's NY Transfer's take:

A commenter over at MyDD had this to say on this story:

I live next to the Fed Bldg. Called the Times, got someone who basically didn't care. She thought it wasn't a big enough story for downtown to care to print it this morning.

So I called the Army Guard. According to a sergeant I called at HQ 40th Inf. Div M Arty (which I assume means artillery) I was told they were NOT tanks, but Amphibious Personnel Carriers that were going to be part of a static display at the VA facility on Wilshire. Why these APCs were in front of the Federal Bldg. is another matter, since the VA is on the other side of I405 from the Federal Bldg. and the APCs were headed east, away from the VA facility, not west, toward it. And there you have the "official" line from the Guard.


From: nytr@olm.blythe-systems.com Subject: [NYTr] "Tanks" in the Streets of LA Organization: ? Article: 196062 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Message-ID: bulk.1156348.20041111031613@chumbly.math.missouri.edu>

Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit

Much Ado about Not Much in Los Angeles:

The hysterical and non-informative posting on the Indymedia site says only:

Indymedia post - Nov 10, 2004 http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/118865.php

TANKS APPEAR AT ANTI-WAR PROTEST IN WESTWOOD

LOS ANGELES, November 9, 2004 - At 7:50 PM armored tanks showed up at an anti-war protest in front of the federal building in Westwood.

The tanks circled the block twice, the second time parking themselves in the street and directly in front of the area where most of the protesters were gathered.

Enraged, some of the people attempted to block the tanks, but police quickly cleared the street.

The people continued to protest the presence of the tanks, but after about ten minutes the tanks drove off. It is unclear as to why the tanks were deployed to this location.

- end item -

Why, before posting such amateurish stuff anonymously (which looks like it could well be disinformation or the work of a provocateur) didn't the poster simply make an effort to call the protest organizers, or god forbid The Authorities too, to find out what exactly went down according to both sides Whose demo was it? Who knows?

There is a video that goes with the post. The "tanks" appear to be one-lane-wide light armored personnel carriers. Not only are the protestors milling around calmly, but so are the cops, walking right in front of the gun turrets. Wow... must've been a really threatening display...

Someone actually did some work and picked up the phone to call LAPD and assorted military authorities and posted his findings on DailyKos. (But none of the folks out there in LaLa Land have reported on which demo this way, who organized it, or for those outside the city, precisely where it occurred.) Here's what the person with the energy to check it out learned:

DailyKos - Nov 10, 2004 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/10/185919/99

UPDATE: More info on LA Tank story posted by Chris Andersen Wed Nov 10th, 2004 at 15:59:19 PST

Following up on this diary.

An enterprising individual named David V. has been doing a lot of leg work to find out whata was going on with those "tanks" that stopped at an LA peace protest last night.

Here's what he's sent me so far:

1st e-mail:

Couple of things.

- I called the West LA station house. They say the tanks were indeed there. So we can put an end to the 'Photoshop' claims.

- The watch commander corrected that those are not tanks because they have no 'tracks'.

- The watch commander has no idea who the armored fighting vehicles belong to.

- The watch commander has no idea who called them in.

- The watch commander suggested to me that perhaps the 'vehicles were lost in getting back to the armory'

- I called the National Guard Armory on Federal. Lt. Jeff Kramer laughed uncontrollably at this suggestion that these vehicles were there because they were 'lost'. He also has no record of them having been there. I'm still waiting on an email back from him.

I can't reply to diaries yet- just thought you'd want to know.

David V.

2nd e-mail:

No reply from the Lt. yet.

You might also add that when I asked the watch commander for an incident log he said that there wasn't one.

3rd e-mail:

Just got this from the Lt.:

David,

These vehicles are called "LAVs" which is short for Light Armored Vehicles. The California National Guard does have two of them but they are not (and were not) anywhere near the Los Angeles area last night. One is in Northern California and the other was not near LA. Most importantly, ours are painted black and have a very specific mission that would not be employed in an urban environment.

The Marine Corps has LAVs as does DEA and the Dept of Justice. I cannot imagine that the Marine Corps would send LAVs by themselves all the way from Camp Pendleton or Twenty-Nine Palms (in the desert near Barstow) to Los Angeles unless they had been officially called out to deal with an emergency. This protest clearly was not that.

I cannot identify the people riding on the LAVs. They only appear to be wearing generic vehicle crewman helmets that allow in-vehicle communication and other non-specific (to military service) clothing.

I wish I could be of more help but that's all I can discern from the photo.

LTC Jeff Kramer

4th e-mail:

The DEA says "..no way. With reasonable certainty I can say they aren't ours."

So that leaves the FBI and Marines. Calls are out.

5th e-mail:

The Marines at Pendleton say:

"Well that's the first I heard of that. We are not running any exercises in State at this time. They could not have been ours."

Hmmmmmm. The FBI is all that's left.

So, exactly what was going on here still remains a mystery. Thanks a lot to David for tracking this stuff down. I'll relay more if I hear anything.

By the way, I know that technically these vehicles aren't considered "tanks" because they have wheels instead of tracks. But I am using the layman's definition of a tank which is a big, military style, iron plated vehicle, weighing several tons, with a big f*cking gun on the front and more than capable of crushing you if it drove over you.

The people on the receiving end of such a weapon would hardly to quibble over its technical name.

Update:

A commenter over at MyDD had this to say on this story:

I live next to the Fed Bldg. Called the Times, got someone who basically didn't care. She thought it wasn't a big enough story for downtown to care to print it this morning.

So I called the Army Guard. According to a sergeant I called at HQ 40th Inf. Div M Arty (which I assume means artillery) I was told they were NOT tanks, but Amphibious Personnel Carriers that were going to be part of a static display at the VA facility on Wilshire. Why these APCs were in front of the Federal Bldg. is another matter, since the VA is on the other side of I405 from the Federal Bldg. and the APCs were headed east, away from the VA facility, not west, toward it. And there you have the "official" line from the Guard.

My opinion is that this was most likely an accidental meeting of two groups that should never get within half a mile of each other. I have seen no evidence that there was anything intentional about the appearance of these "tanks" (what is it with this political correctness when it comes to identifying military vehicles?)

A definitive explanation would still be nice. Let's not start throwing up the barricades quite yet.

--- end DailyKos followup ---

For all we know, these were guys showing up with for a veteran's day show & tell in a couple of APCs who got lost in the big city. Since it's LA, maybe it was a stoned film crew out on the town. People are dying in Fallujah. News at eleven. -- NY Transfer.]

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They're Marines

by vet Saturday, Nov. 13, 2004 at 2:38 PM

Those are Marine Corps LAVs (light armored vehicles), most likely up from Pendleton, which is why the Army National Guard couldn't be sure about them.

They took a wrong turn on they're way to the Veteran's Day event, which would explain why they were on the wrong side of the freeway .

They were body armor and the helmets as part of the safety gear for operating the equipment, the same reasons race car drivers wear the flame retardent suits and helmets when they race, for safety.

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Mr

by Jeremy Stroud Sunday, Nov. 14, 2004 at 1:10 AM

Hmmmm, Tanks........ yeah. You would think that protestors would be informed enough to know that those weren't tanks. They were Bradley Infantry Fight Vehicles. Also known as Armored Personnel Carriers. Just goes to show you that protestors aren't exactly the brightest people in the world. And even less bright when they're pacifists.

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They aren't bradleys

by vet Sunday, Nov. 14, 2004 at 6:32 AM

Bradleys are tracked vehicles, have heavier armor and a completely different turret design. They are not Strykers either. Strykers do not have turrent and have a completely different body design. Additionally, the Marine Corps uses neither of those as armored vehicles, and from the driver's uniforms (digital cammies, lack of shoulder patches) they are clearly Marines.

See here

http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/7e931335d515626a8525628100676e0c/b54eb957c0d3b17a852562830058111b/$FILE/LAV25.JPG

Those are Marine Corps LAVs.

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arearranging deckchairs on Titanic - or whatever

by Adrien Sunday, Nov. 14, 2004 at 1:43 PM
eandubh@pacificnet.net

Who cares if they were tanks - designed for military action in rough terrain) or "light armored vehicles (designed for military use on urban streets)? Or Bradleys or Strykers or helicopters? And why should we in the peace movement spend our precious hours worshipfully studying military vehicles? WE don't love and admire them - we see them for the death machines they are. And the guys in them? They aren't heroes to me - they're just poor boys fighting in a rich man's war, as Steve Earl says. The fact is that the military vegicles, with their mounted guns, did amount to a sinister and threatening presence. The Federal Bldg in Westwood is the usual place of protest in L.A., incidentally. And if the poor marines or whatever were indeed, lost, their incompetence comes close to that of the National Guard pilot who bombed a grammar school in NJ last week. Is it any wonder that in Iraq they are always shooting up kids, women and old people? Or that they occasionally run over some family car? Or that they regularly shoot up weddings and ambulances? They're LOST, or course. THAT'S it.

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Read what Joe said below...

by Rik Sunday, Nov. 14, 2004 at 1:53 PM

Greetings.

Remember that the soldiers are NOT our enemies.

Were the soldiers our enemies, we would have reason to be overjoyed that more than 1,000 of them have died in this absurd war.

Many of the soldiers believe in their mission. Many do not.

Regardless, save your venom for those who live in comfort and have sent them to die, not those who have volunteered to go to Iraq to fight and sometimes die.

Blessings to all. May we get through these difficult times together, as human beings. May all men be are brothers and all women our sisters.

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Mr

by Pete E Sunday, Nov. 14, 2004 at 4:31 PM

Those are LAV-25 from the USMC. I used to drive a similar vehicle in the British Army. I am not sure what the fuss is here. I put it down to a vehicle commander with a sense of humor! There is no way that those guys are trying to be intimidating; they are just having a laugh at the sake of those dumb protestors!

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well then

by Sheepdog Sunday, Nov. 14, 2004 at 4:58 PM

long live the Queen.
Perhaps a laugh could be produced with a crowd of armed cizins...

Report this post as:

title

by Isaac Sunday, Nov. 14, 2004 at 9:05 PM

the soilders fighting in Iraq have awareness of action and consequence, and as such are by all means murderers, and in no way deserving of our respect.

Report this post as:

One who served

by Uncle_Dave Monday, Nov. 15, 2004 at 12:52 AM
darosejr@charter.net (951) 653-6300

Several things bother me about this article. Were the tanks, etc. really there to intimidate or were they just passing by. There is a Veterans Hospital just on the other side of the freeway. With Thusday being Veterans Day, I'm sure there was a program going on. This may have even included some tanks, etc.

Having been in the military and a Vietnam veteran, it really upsets me to see our troops maligned like they were during and after the Vietnam War. Our troops are doing what they are trained to do. They are also following orders. Please don't call these brave young men and women baby killers and the like. Soldiers have feelings too.

The brave protestors stayed a safe distance from the tanks. I didn't see anyone laying down in front of the tanks. I guess that only happens in China. The actions of that one man spoke many more volumes of courage than any demostrator standing on the sidewalk shouting obscenitives at the Service Men.

I especially liked the picture #28 with the signs telling the US to get out of every where. I wonder if any other countries would come to the aid of oppressed people.

I just returned from "ground zero" in New York City. I noticed an obvious absence of "protestors" there. There was a lot of room. You wouldn't even have to stand in the street. Is the trip too far? Or is that it is easier to protest thousands of miles away from any action or near places where thousands of Americans were killed. What's the matter? NO GUTS!!!

Report this post as:

One who served

by Uncle_Dave Monday, Nov. 15, 2004 at 12:56 AM
darosejr@charter.net (951) 653-6300

Several things bother me about this article. Were the tanks, etc. really there to intimidate or were they just passing by. There is a Veterans Hospital just on the other side of the freeway. With Thursday being Veterans Day, I'm sure there was a program going on. This may have even included some tanks, etc.

Having been in the military and a Vietnam veteran, it really upsets me to see our troops maligned like they were during and after the Vietnam War. Our troops are doing what they are trained to do. They are also following orders. Please don't call these brave young men and women baby killers and the like. Soldiers have feelings too.

The brave protestors stayed a safe distance from the tanks. I didn't see anyone lying down in front of the tanks. I guess that only happens in China. The actions of that one man spoke many more volumes of courage than any demonstrator standing on the sidewalk shouting obscenities at the Service Men.

I especially liked the picture #28 with the signs telling the US to get out of every where. I wonder if any other countries would come to the aid of oppressed people.

I just returned from "ground zero" in New York City. I noticed an obvious absence of "protestors" there. There was a lot of room. You wouldn't even have to stand in the street. Is the trip too far? Or is that it is easier to protest thousands of miles away from any action or near places where thousands of Americans were killed. What's the matter? NO GUTS!!!

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heard it before

by Sheepdog Monday, Nov. 15, 2004 at 8:16 AM

When I came back in '72, I was never spat upon, just met with uncomfortable shame and guilt. Mostly self generated by this spitting myth originated by the Pentagon Psyops to alienate the returning vets. And they're doing it yet again.

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Uncle Dave is just plain wrong

by Dave Monday, Nov. 15, 2004 at 8:26 AM

I take issue with Dave maligning the protestors. We are in a time that has similar tanks rolling through the streets of Faluja. Many people have been lead into a war against Iraq due to nonexistent weapons of mass destruction, no links to Al Qaeda, and against a Saddam Hussein that was strongly supported and put in power by the United States. The same United States that gave Saddam wind directions and weather reports when he was gassing the Iraqi people. I applaud the protestors and whether the tanks in Westwood were lost or not they are finding their mark in Faluja.

Report this post as:

soldiers and vets

by Adrien Monday, Nov. 15, 2004 at 11:12 AM
eandubh@pacificnet.net

I was in the antiwar movement during the Vietnam War. I never attended an antiwar demonstration, rally, or other major event where there were not at least a few Vietnam veterans, and they were always treated with respect, as important assets in our struggle to expose the truth and end the slaughter. They were conscientious men who did not glory in the three million dead we inflicted on that little nation. We might have been less polite to those who excused the massacres (such as My Lai)
or defended the absurd notion that vietnam posed some sort of threat to the US. Soldiers are as soldiers do. given the brainwashing that passes for an American education, and the obvious "poverty draft," I would expect many well-meaning young Americans to join the armed services. But to the extent that they are moral individuals, and intelligent enough to see through the propaganda, I also expect them to rebel against the inhumanity of our mission and actions in Iraq. I pity soldiers if they can't grasp the imperial nature of our war there - and recoil in disgust at those who participate in the humiliation and murderous oppression of the Iraqi people. The bottom line is that soldiers are not special people - not monsters; not heroes, not godlike, except in their power - they are people. They can be misled. They can be mean and ugly. Or they can be honorable individuals who resist and refuse the bestial task to which they've been sent. Let us judge them not by their clothes, but by their actions.

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Westwood Anti-Occupation Demonstration Pictures - Part 2 of 2

by eich bin ein fallujan Monday, Nov. 15, 2004 at 2:42 PM
kbrown@digitalhousing.net

who ordered these tanks? I assume they just don't travel around unassigned? Where to go for this information?

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Re: One Who Served

by Ich Bin Ein Fallujan Monday, Nov. 15, 2004 at 10:39 AM

Dave,

I'm not sure what people commenting may have said, but the article itself very clearly states that I don't know what the tanks were doing there. It is entirely possible that they got lost, and it is also possible that they were there to intimidate or to desensitize people to having tanks show up at protests.

The article also takes issue with those (very few) protestors who shouted denunciations at the soldiers.

Your idea that the U.S. comes to the aid of oppressed people is without any basis. Name the last time that happened. The U.S. invades other countries to further the aims of its ruling elites. That is a very consistent pattern.

In Iraq, the U.S. is building 14 permanent bases around the country that are going to be used by the U.S. In other words, long-term occupation is the goal. Iraqis realize this and are resisting. The U.S. response is repression, torture and mass murder. The former ambassador to El Salvador during the U.S. backed mass torture and murder there in the 80s, John Negroponte, is now our new consul in Iraq. Wake up and smell the rotting flesh.

--IBEF

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YOU FREAKIN' MORONS

by Insurgent Blues Wednesday, Nov. 17, 2004 at 6:40 PM
InsurgentBlues@aol.com

YOU FREAKIN' MORONS...read, pay attention.your jumping to conclusions. Im sure you were very exceited by the prospect of a "tank" showing up to your protest. You were thinking "headlines!! history!! wow, this will be just like Kent State! cool!!"
FIRST it was NOT a tank, It was NOT a "stryker"..it was a US Marine LAV. They were not familiar with LA, adn were looking for a staging area for the vet day parade.
SECOND, there is NO WAY, that the armament on that LA had ammunition. You were in no danger. I can assure you that the drivers of those LAV's can handle those thigns better than the bozo's that drive MTA buses around.
THIRD, The Marine Corps wouldnt have been called out to break up your piddly shouting match, and surely the Marines would have trouble with what they know is right, by taking away your civil rights..they just wouldnt do it.
I am a former-US Marine, and I served in those LAVs in the first Gulf War and Somalia.
LET THIS ONE GO...relax, they werent there for you idiots...

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"tanks" no threat...RELAX

by VOODOO DEMOCRACY Wednesday, Nov. 17, 2004 at 7:14 PM
voodoodemocracy@aol.com

hey guys, RELAX, stop spazzing out. These were NOT tanks sent to stop the protest. It was simply some Marines that were asked to take two LAV's up from Camp Pendleton to the Veterans Day Parade. Not EVERYBODY is familiar with LA streets. They just happened to come upon the protest. Wrong place, wrong time. ITS COMICAL ALMOST. Imagine what the Marines were thinking when they pulled up. Im a former US Marine, and I can tell you, that MOST Marines, that understand civil rights, would appreciate the freedom you have to protest, and would PROTECT IT. Dont bash them. They are only doing what WE pay them to do. Dont create some sort of conspiracy theory silliness out of this comical coincidence. RELAX. DISSENT = DEMOCRACY

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Make fucking certain

by Mark Wednesday, Nov. 17, 2004 at 7:15 PM

It doesn't happen again even if by accident.

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RATM

by RATM Thursday, Nov. 18, 2004 at 3:20 AM

RATM...
18_tankstoppedbydemonstrators2.jpgzaqbqm.jpg, image/jpeg, 760x570

THIS COUNTRY DOSE NOT JUST BELONG TO YOU....WE WILL PROTEST AND CONTINUE TO TELL YOU TO TURN OFF FOX TV AND THINK FOR YOUR SELF..IF YOU CAN GET PERMISSION FROM YOUR BASE TO BE ABLE TO THINK UP SOMETHING ON YOUR OWN...OR DO YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR YOUR THINKING POINTS E-MAIL FROM THE G.O.P.....SCARED WHITE MALES LOOKING FOR BLAME AND WANT EVERY ONE TO BE LIKE YOU THAT WAY YOU DONT HAVE TO THINK, KNOW, OR GROW....YELL ABOUT ABORTIONS THEN BE THE FIRST TO BUY A GUN.........RATM...HOW CAN YOU TALK ABOUT GROUPS OF PEOPLE YOU DONT EVEN KNOW ABOUT...OH THATS RIGHT YOUR REPUBLICAN YOU DONT KNOW YOU JUDGE AND BASE PEOPLE ON THE COLOR OF THERE SKIN....

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fresca

by uh, actually... Thursday, Nov. 18, 2004 at 4:56 AM

"THIS COUNTRY DOSE NOT JUST BELONG TO YOU...."

...it does.

Now don't you have some homework to do or a table to bus?

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OOPS, wrong turn?

by KhrowAngel Thursday, Nov. 18, 2004 at 10:35 AM

OOPS, wrong turn?...
kingdom_suffers_violence.jpg, image/jpeg, 1275x1650

Wow, you think its almost comical that the guy driving the tank doesnt know where the hell he's going? Our precise, well trained, intelligent, servicemen? cant navigate the streets of LA? but their competent to engage in a war across the world? maybe he should try my SECRET WEAPON in navigating the streets of LA, its called a THOMAS GUIDE! I guess that's why we're in Iraq...originally they were headed to Iran, (a legitimate threat to America) but because they didnt bother to check their Thomas Guide they made a wrong turn and ended up in Iraq instead...(oops, my bad!) & not wanting to stop and ask directions, (ya know y'all HATE to ask for direction!) they just did the next best thing and bombed the hell out of Iraq instead!!! Yea, would be comical if it wasnt so damn sad! the deception pulled on the people by a NEOCON GOVT. and puppet media, and by the fact that so many innocent civilians were caught in the crossfire, and an ancient civilization destroyed... if you think this tank just "accidentally" ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, well, then i stand by the facts, we're in WRONG WAR @ the WRONG TIME!

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Accept the LAV

by Marino Friday, Nov. 19, 2004 at 12:11 PM

They are here to liberate us.

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Hot air

by Concerned Vet Thursday, Jan. 06, 2005 at 10:21 PM

The person who wrote this article is very misinformed, and a complete idiot. He should go live in a country where people are not given the right to free speech. That would be the greatest gift to humanity

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Demonstration, Opinions & Actions

by Corsair Wednesday, Jul. 13, 2005 at 6:01 AM
rkarins@isp01.net

If the governments and citizens of these 'third-world' countries would step up to the plate and take repsonisiblity for what is happening in their own provinces, perhaps there wouldn't be a need to send US forces onto foreign soil.

The middle east is a breeding ground of hatred and misguided theological
beliefs - how about channeling your energy in a more positive direction,
such as education? Join the peace corps and go overseas to help build
an infrastructure in these areas so that these people have alternatives
to radical behavior.

How about pressuring your senators and congressmen in the hopes of
changing US policies overseas?

Why don't you protest the root cause (which, yes, does include US Foreign Policies) and not the men and women who are putting their lives on the line every day?

Expend your energy where it COUNTS and not at those that have no say
in the matter that they are involved in (read - enlisted service men and
women).

Oh, yeah, that would make too much sense, and interfere with your daily
all-natural poseur lunches with other misguided liberal jag-offs. Besides,
why uproot your life and champion yourself for change when it's easier
to make a poster and protest for a few hours, followed by lattes at the local
'hot spot' to discuss your triumphs.

Sheep are a dime a dozen. You don't impress anybody.

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KhrowAngel comments

by Corsair Wednesday, Jul. 13, 2005 at 6:15 AM
rkarins@isp01.net

Iran a legitimate threat? If thats the case, then we can say that
about a dozen other countries, so where does it stop?

Had we invaded Iran, you would crying that Iraq was the actual
threat. Why? Because you formulate your decisions based on
what you hear other people spouting - who don't know their
asses from a hole in the ground to begin with.

Here's a concept: how about doing your OWN research and then
coming to your OWN decisions, and not those of others that you've
heard at your social gatherings while wearing your uni-sex black-rimmed
glasses and retro wardrobe (that you spent a lot of money and time on
because thats the 'in-style' right now).

Uh, wait. Once again, this would make far too much sense, and, as we
all know, COMMON SENSE is in short supply when it comes to you
idiots.

Was Iraq a legitimate target? No. But we're there now, and we need to
start thinking about a way to get out of there without leaving a vaccum (no,
not the kind that is manufactured by Kirby or Dirt Devil, my directionless
liberal shit-head friend) that could plunge the area into a civil war.

The Thomas Guide comment was a pretty lame attempt at humor. It was
irrelevent to the subject and a far stretch at trying to connect the dots.
Go back to your poly-sci studies and caramel-lattes you mindless,
uneducated fuck-pole.

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OCCUPATION AGAINST A NATION

by ASHTON SMITH Wednesday, Dec. 14, 2005 at 11:08 AM

OCCUPATION AGAINST A...
gwb2.gif, image/gif, 190x246

Every so often the military comes to are school to brainwash students into joining the military. An incident occured not to long ago when a student was tricked into the army by a military pesonal. the military dude told him that he would get an XBOX to keep if he joined
the corp. His remark " well i got a free XBOX".
this proves how fucked up the system works.

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Correction to all of you un-educated people on military procedures.

by AK Monday, Jan. 16, 2006 at 11:26 PM

First off, I am a U.S. Marine Reservist and a UCLA student. I have lived in Westwood for 6 years and probably am the only one here able to clarify this rediculous discussion.
Second, by military law, no personnel, let alone APVs(armored personnel vehicles) are allowed to carry ammunition in a civilian area or in transportation through civilian areas. I myself have participated in a Veteran's Day parade in Long Beach in 2001, was carrying an M-16 with no clip nor ammunition.
Third, if you people doubt that they were simply lost, why don't you mapquest the Wilshire exit off of the 405N. There is one exit, for both east and west. On the east side is the federal building within one block, on the west side is the VA complex as well as an Army Reserve Unit where they were headed. I have seen videos of the APV's arriving and noticed not one of them making a gesture nor comment towards the protesters. In fact, if I were in their place, I would feel very uncomfortable seeing the situation they had created. On the other hand, the protesters began to heckle the poor young Marine's who were only doing their job to participate in a VETERANS DAY PARADE!!! Something that you all should have praised them for doing. YES VETERANS DAY PARADE, a parade honoring all of those who died for this country. The protestors, on the other hand took well advantage of the stiuation, stood in front of the vehicles and prolonged the situation to their own political ambitions.
A sad mishap turned into a fraudulent controversy.

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