During the ten month revolutionary struggle the goal of the vast majority of Libyans was to overthrow Qaddafi but the cynical left developed its own narrative for what they referred to as regime change. A regime change they opposed. They fought to extend Qaddafi’s rule just as they fight to extend Assad’s rule today.

They had no opinion on the struggle in Libya until NATO got involved, then “as they saw it” it was just another “War for Oil”, just another Iraq. As spectators to history, they declared “we’ve been through this movie before.” Usually that meant the rebels and the NTC where seen as agents of imperialism, and the depth and breath of the Libyan opposition was denied.

This was all done in the name of “opposing our own bourgeois” but its central foundation has been a cynical appreciation of the revolutionary movement of the Libyan people.

A year ago, this whole crowd was sure that NATO intervention would lead to a NATO occupation of Libya ‘ala Iraq or Afghanistan. Clearly that hasn’t happened. Those that predicted such NATO “boots on the ground”, and that’s what they meant at the time, where wrong. That did not happen.

That is just one thing, on top of many, many things they got wrong about the Libyan Revolution, but rather that admit they were wrong about that and maybe some other things and being so bold as to make a reappraisal of their views on Libya, they cling to those views.

They welcome any bad news from Libya and use it to support their view that the revolution in Libya is a bad thing and shouldn’t have happened. They find themselves quoting favorably from the MSM that has it’s own reasons for pouring cold water on post-Qaddafi Libya. They take every outbreak of violence and every injustice still happening in revolutionary Libya, blow it all out of proportion, and talk of “chaos” in Libya.

The post war violence in Libya is nothing like it was in Iraq, and for that matter still is 8 years latter. The electricity is still on in Libya. Schools are back in session, mail is being delivered, oil production is back up, Internet is back up, and people are getting back to work. But these anti-interventionists turned counter-revolutionaries only look for signs of “chaos.”

Over 2.7 million people have registered all over Libya for national elections on June 19th or early July [there is talk of a short delay as I write this] Misrata and Benghazi already had local elections. Libyans all over the world are registering at their still functioning embassies and all these people can talk about is “no functioning government” in Libya.

They still promote the view that the Libyan Revolution is a fake one ginned up by western imperialism and the National Transitional Council NATO puppets. So now I have some questions for these folks. If the Libyan Revolution was orchestrated by US imperialism and the NTC a NATO puppet regime:

1.) Why are there no NATO bases in Libya?

2.) Why are there no NATO troops in Libya?

3.) Why did they refuse to turn over the ‘so-called’ Lockerbee Bomber as demanded by the West?

4.) Why did they stop and expose the CIA’s special rendition program in Libya?

5.) Why is the revolutionary commander of Tripoli Head of the Military Council of Tripoli, Abdel Hakim Belhaj suing former British FM Jack Straw?

During the Libyan Revolution, the pro-Qaddafi forces, with help from Russia and Iran, developed this fantastic network of Internet websites and blogs that spread Qaddafi’s war stories far and wide so that they would be replicated so many times that they would be the first thing found by the search engines.

Now that the real facts of the situation in Libya last year are coming to light we are in a position to compare the Qaddafi lies, and those of his parrots with the reality on the ground. Let’s take just one example – the NATO March 19 bombing of Libya. From the AJE tapes released last month of phone calls between Qaddafi and his cronies we have this.

A crowd of hundreds, many wearing green to show their support for Muammar Gaddafi, gathered in Tripoli on March 20 for a mass funeral. They were burying dozens of civilians – some of them children – killed overnight in NATO airstrikes.

Or so they were told. Among the thousands of wiretapped conversations obtained by Al Jazeera are several which show this “funeral” was actually a bit of stage-managed propaganda, organized by Tayeb El Safi, one of Gaddafi’s most trusted henchmen.

The day before the funeral, El Safi and an unknown caller can be heard joking about a NATO airstrike which destroyed an office used by Gaddafi’s aides.

El Safi: They hit our location [laughter].

Caller: The office?

El Safi: Yes, the office. The office where we used to meet, the High Commission for Children.

Caller: No! [laughter] When?

El Safi: We need to put children there and take the media there in the evening. Tomorrow, let’s organize a huge funeral in Green Square [Martyrs’ Square]. We need to get some coffins. From here and there, you know what I mean. We need revolutionary youth with green flags and pictures of the leader.

El Safi and his aides moved ahead with the plan, but they encountered a problem: The cemetery they planned to use couldn’t accommodate the huge number of “martyrs” the government planned to bury.

Caller: The cemetery of Al Hani only has three available places.

El Safi: Okay, move them to Al Hansheer [cemetery]. Get ready, I’ll tell you now.

Caller: How many?

El Safi: 48 martyrs.

Witnesses would recall later that the funeral did seem a bit odd – that no family members showed up to mourn their dead relatives. “We didn’t know who they were. There were no death certificates. There were no relatives who later came for them,” Faraj Al Ghyriani, a Tripoli resident who attended the funeral, told Al Jazeera. “I know that inside the coffins were just people who died of old age, or mercenaries. They were so stupid that they had the same name on two different coffins.”

Global Research was one website that was quick to promote Qaddafi’s BS on this attack. Here is what Global Research had to say about this:

The Bombing of Civilian Targets

The objective is not to come to the rescue of civilians.

Quite the opposite. Both military as well as civilian targets have been pre-selected.

Civilian casualties are intentional. They are not the result of “collateral damage”.

Early reports confirm that hospitals, civilian airports and government buildings have been bombed.

Within hours of the air attacks, a Libyan government health official “said the death toll from the Western air strikes had risen to 64 on Sunday after some of the wounded died.” The number of wounded was of the order of 150. (Montreal Gazette, Gadhafi hurls defiance as allied forces strike Libya, March 19, 2011).

These deaths resulting from US-NATO missiles and aerial bombings are either denied or casually dismissed as `collateral damage`.

Workers World Party organized protests against this attack, completely buying the Qaddafi story. so did the ANSWER Coalition:

On March 20, thousands demonstrated in Los Angeles to say no to war and occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan. The demonstration was called by the Answer Coalition. Libya was clearly on the minds of everyone there and news of the criminal attack electrified the demonstration. The announcement of yet another imperialist war was booed and jeered as the words crawled across an electronic sign on CNN’s L.A. office.

The International Action Center distributed a statement denouncing the attack on Libya. The next day the IAC held an emergency demonstration at the Westwood Federal Building to demand an end to U.S., French and British bombing of Libya. Members of BAYAN-USA, the All African Peoples Revolutionary Party — GC, Unión del Barrio and Anti-Racist Action also participated. The action was covered by ABC, Fox, Telemundo and Univisión.

Now they are organizing protests against US intervention in Syria. I received a call just yesterday from the IAC calling on me to support Assad at their up coming pro-Assad Rally – No US/NATO War Against the Syrian People! Apparently the war that the Assad regime is currently waging against the Syrian people is not to be protested, only an extremely unlikely one by the US and NATO.
Assad is current slaughtering thousands of Syrians so naturally they are opposed to “regime change” just as they were when Qaddafi was killing Libyans. They wish he was still at it.

Some Qaddafi supporters insist things really are the way they saw them and there is a US occupation of Libya. Cynthia McKinney claims that US troops are about to land in Libya any minute, if they aren’t already there. She posted this explosive story on her blog on January 13, 2012:

Why is President Obama sending 12, 000 U.S. troops to Libya?

Hello fellow activists for peace,

It is with great disappointment that I receive the news from foreign media publications and Libyan sources that our President now has 12,000 U.S. troops stationed in Malta and they are about to make their descent into Libya.

This claim was immediately disputed by both Malta and the US embassy:

The US Embassy in a single line statement this morning reiterated the Maltese government’s statement categorically denying claims that there are US troops in Malta.

The government’s statement was issued two days ago after former US Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney said in a blog that “12,000 U.S. troops (are) stationed in Malta and they are about to make their descent into Libya”.

and ridiculed by a local Maltese blogger:

As a resident of Malta, I can guarantee her – and you – that this is untrue. There are no 12,000 US soldiers stationed on Malta. And trust me, this island is so small, I would have seen them. There isn’t enough space for 12,000 troops to hide, especially not if they have the typical soldiers’ equipment of tanks, artillery, helicopters et cetera with them. – To put things into perspective: the whole military of Malta is 2,140 troops strong. Even at the height of World War II, when Malta was hotly fought over as the central location in the Mediterranean, no more than 26,000 troops stationed on Malta.

Granted, I did see the USS Whidbey Island in port in Valletta last Friday, but this ship only has a crew of about 400 sailors.

Also, I can’t see why US forces would go to Libya now. Gaddafi is dead, Libya is liberated, the job is done.

Ms McKinney either has no idea about international politics and the state of the world, or she is one of these conspiracy gurus, or she doesn’t know where Malta is and confused it with something else. Either way, it’s very embarrassing for a former US Congresswoman to make these ridiculous statements.

Its been six months since Cynthia McKinney made her prediction and we are still waiting for those US troops to make themselves known.

I understand how the Libyan massacre needs to be papered over as something other than a willful assault upon the people of that nation by western terrorism but dear lord this is clumsy and heavy handed.
Who writes this stuff?

Is this what you call western terrorism? This is LIBYAN REVOLUTION!!! Are you insulting the Libyan People?

and the photo shows...what? Thousands of Libyans supporting Qaddafi. Not the terrorists which came in and began the massacres of blacks and loyalists.
You cannot cover blood with powdered sugar.

Libyan rebels massacre black Africans
The opposition forces in Libya are responsible for barbaric, pogrom-like massacres against black African workers.
http://wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/rebe-m31.shtml

The Battle For Libyan Oil Fields:

http://www.blissful-wisdom.com/the-battle-for-libyan-oil-fields.html

“Operation Libya” and the Battle for Oil


“Operation Libya” is part of the broader military agenda in the Middle East and Central Asia which consists in gaining control and corporate ownership over more than sixty percent of the world’s reserves of oil and natural gas, including oil and gas pipeline routes."



Libyan rebel movement has been backed by US and UK for nearly 30 years.

In other words, Gadhaffi is fighting revolutionaries who've been trained and armed by the West.


US / Israeli governments sent in mercenaries to create a Libyan crisis in February 2011




U.S. planned to attack 7 countries:

Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Iran

In an interview with Amy Goodman on March 2, 2007, U.S. General Wesley Clark (Ret.), reveals the United States government’s plan.

The photo shows thousands of Libyan people OPPOSING Gaddafi. The flag shown is the flag of the revolution. This just shows how ignorant you are.

As for any revolutions there were excesses. Gaddafi used poor African mercenaries to fight for him because he cannot rely anymore on his own people. When the revolution won some Libyans who suffered under the dictator turn their anger against his mercenaries.

If that is the US plan, then they have not succeded. Our oil is still in our hands.

A Response to Clay Claiborne’s “On the Left, Ghadafi’s Lies Live On” by Diana Barahona

There is so much to rebut in Clay Claiborne’s prolific writings in favor of NATO/U.S. military intervention that it’s hard to know where to begin. Claiborne, who has no academic credentials making him a Middle East expert, has published 95 opinion pieces supporting the overthrow of the Libyan government. This wouldn’t matter now except that he has moved on to supporting the NATO/U.S./Gulf Cooperation Council efforts to do the same thing to Syria.

First to address is his assessment of the human cost of the war. He throws around the figure of 30,000 dead without citing reliable sources. This figure is problematic since it comes from the new government, which has an interest in both emphasizing casualties suffered by government troops (half of the 30,000) and attributing the rest to civilians who allegedly died at the hands of the Ghadafi government.

None of this can be taken on face value.

Yes, thousands of people were killed in this war, and I consider government soldiers and police doing their job in repelling a foreign-backed overthrow to be victims as well. How many civilians did government forces intentionally kill? We don’t know, because many of these kinds of claims made by the opposition turned out to be complete fabrications after human rights organizations went in and investigated. We do know for a fact that NATO bombing deliberately targeted the families of government officials, which is a war crime, and that the opposition militias also murdered many civilians (approximately 300 in Sirte alone), either because they were seen as pro-government or because they were black-skinned foreign workers.




Yet, in spite of the claims of the new government that half of the dead were government troops, Claiborne claims that “Most of those 30,000 souls were Libyan civilians killed by Ghadafi with artillery, tanks, snipers and cluster bombs.” Making things up in order to justify one’s political position has no place in journalism, much less in left journalism.

In fact, the NATO war was not only more violent than Claiborne wants to admit, but the scope of foreign intervention was much more intensive. According to Manlio Dinucci, a geographer and geopolitical scientist and frequent contributor to Global Research:

“Over seven months, U.S. and NATO air forces carried out 30,000 missions of which 10,000 were offensive air strikes, using more than 40,000 bombs and missiles. Additionally, Special Forces were infiltrated into Libya, among them thousands of easily concealed Qatari commandos. They also financed and armed tribal groups hostile to the Tripoli government and supported Islamic groups what only months earlier were watchlisted as terrorists. The operation in its entirety was directed by Washington, according to the U.S. Ambassador to NATO, first under the rubric of AFRICOM and then of NATO, but always under direct U.S. command.”

The fact that anti-Ghadafi militias murdered many civilians, including the killing, torture and forced expulsion of up to 250,000 of African workers living in the country with their families, is not mentioned by Claiborne, even though these things are well documented.


According to Al Jazeera:

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/black-africans-come-under-fire-libya


“As fighting slows down in parts of the country, black Libyans and African labourers face chronic accusations of being Gaddafi’s hired mercenaries. NTC fighters have reportedly been rounding up and detaining accused mercenaries even if they are found unarmed.

“By some estimates, more than 5,000 black migrants have been detained in makeshift jails around the country, and others have faced beatings, revenge killings, and even mass execution. Mercenary fighters found armed have been summarily executed, according to reports.

“Most detainees maintain that they were not involved in fighting and are simply migrant workers detained without evidence.

“Black women in refugee camps reported night-time kidnappings and rapes by fighters though to be associated with the NTC. Officials with the National Transitional Council deny such reports.

“Partially in response to reports of race-based violence and detention in Libya, the African Union has refused to recognize the legitimacy of Libya’s interim government. It alleges that the persecution of blacks in the country amounts to human rights violations that fully delegitimise the post-Gaddafi leadership. …

“Before the Libyan uprising broke out earlier this year, the country hosted about a million black African workers, many of them employed in domestic work, construction, trash collection, and other low-wage jobs. Even before the fighting began, these workers faced widespread racism and discrimination.”




He also makes a big deal about people registering to vote, as if being allowed to choose only among candidates acceptable to the global capitalist elites meant anything.

However, Libya today remains fragmented, with tribal militias unwilling to put down their arms and accept the authority of the technocratic central government. This was entirely forseeable–in fact, the tribal structure of Libyan society was one factor that made it easy to overthrow the government, which had been in the sights of the U.S. global capitalist bloc for years. The article by Dinucci cited above concludes that, “The Jamahiriya of Gadhafi’s time, a strange hybrid of Proudhonian anarchy and autocracy, has given way to a liberal chaos where torture and murder have become the norm while the multinationals are on a permanent binge.”

The giveaway of Libya’s oil, the principal objective of the NATO powers, is no small matter. Libya’s oil was privatized in short order, with contracts allotted according to the number of bombing runs each country had made—France on behalf of Total, Spain on behalf of Repsol, Italy on behalf of Eni, England on behalf of BP and the U.S. on behalf on Marathon, Hess and ConocoPhillips. This will have the effect of reducing revenues to the new government, which will have to fill the funding gap by cutting social spending to the bone and taking out loans from the international financial institutions, like every other neoliberal state.

Finally, Claiborne’s “analysis” has absolutely no basis in sociology, Marxism, or even recent history. The United States is the leader of a global capitalist bloc of its own creation . It operates according to a game plan by which all countries are targeted for incorporation into this bloc, and if they don’t restructure through internal means, through the election of neoliberal governments that do the bidding of transnational corporations, they are incorporated by violence. High on the list of countries to assimilate are those with valuable natural resources.

This is not to say that sectors of the Libyan population (or the Syrian or Iranian population for that matter) don’t have legitimate grievances against their nationalist dictatorships. However, when their countries are targeted for regime change by foreign transnational capital and their own emerging domestic transnational capitalist class, any military alliance that government opponents make with these globalizing interests is an act of treason against their own people. This is a global class war and the United States and other NATO powers represent the interests of the transnational capitalist class, not the Libyan working class.





Following is a quote from one aspiring transnational capitalist:


“So Saddam wanted to prove to the whole world he was strong? Well, we’re stronger- he’s out! He’s finished. And Iran’s going to be finished and every single Arab regime that’s like this will be finished. Because there is no room for us capitalists and multinationalists in the world to operate with regimes like this. It’s all about money. And power. And wealth… and democracy has to be spread around the world. Those who want to espouse globalization are going to make a lot of money, be happy, their families will be happy. And those who aren’t going to play this game are going to be crushed, whether they like it or not!”



When Cynthia McKinney came to Los Angeles after witnessing the destruction of the NATO bombing campaign in Libya, it fell to a group of us to form a cordon outside to prevent Libyans from entering the event and disrupting it. One University of Southern California student, who claimed to be a socialist, repeatedly told me that “they” had been forced to “make a deal with the devil” (invite NATO to bomb) because Gaddafi was threatening a massacre in her parents’ native city of Benghazi. When I asked her how they were going to renationalize the oil once it had been privatized by the rebels, all she could say was that they would deal with that later. That is, the Libyan people were going to have to worry about getting rid of a foreign-backed, well-armed neoliberal government after the country’s only source of revenues had been given away to foreign oil companies.

This is the infantile thinking of those who claim to be on the left yet join in with the transnational capitalist class when it comes to “humanitarian intervention.”


http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=1043

Libyan names - Top names in Libya

2.78 %, ben saidane.
2.78 %, Kadia.


Your search - "Kadia ben Saidane" - did not match any documents.

Are the French better off a year after the French Revolution? Are the Americans better off after the American Revolution? Revolutions are not dinner parties. They cannot be so refined.

You expect Libyan people be better off immediately after a civil war. You must be dreaming.

Gaining political power from 42-year dictatorship by one man is just the beginning not the end.

Libya’s oil was privatized in short order, with contracts allotted according to the number of bombing runs each country had made—France on behalf of Total, Spain on behalf of Repsol, Italy on behalf of Eni, England on behalf of BP and the U.S. on behalf on Marathon, Hess and ConocoPhillips.

What is good in the state owning the oil fields when the whole state and the whole country is being owned (full control) by one man?

Which is worse? Well the Libyan people have decided. Who are we, outsiders, to say that they have made a mistake.

As the demonstrations have shown the revolution got popular support. These people have put their lives in danger. Are they stooge?

False Dichotomy

The fallacy of false dichotomy is committed when the arguer claims that his conclusion is one of only two options, when in fact there are other possibilities.

That 'one man' was using the profits to improve the lives of the working class.

Big oil uses the profits to enrich already rich foreign shareholders, as the above expose' points out.

The above expose' also points out how western imperialism bankrolled the whole sham.

- but never let the facts get in the way of state sponsored propaganda, better to ignore the facts and employ sound bites, and dog whistles

Free food, accomodation and healthcare without freedom. You can see that too in many countries. They are called prisons or mental institutions. Libya was a huge prison. Gaddafi was the Prison Master.

As the photo shows there were widespread support for the revolution. The Libyan people have spoken. Who are we to say that they were wrong in fighting the 42-year dictatorship. Please don't insult them.

As for state-sponsored propaganda, there were lots of them during Gaddafi's time. Just Google Image "Gaddafi Billboards" or "Gaddafi stamps" and you will see a lot of them.

the above expose' shows what the real issue is - oil.

- sound bites and dog whistles not withstanding..

The death toll of civilians shot right up there as soon as the 'freedom fighters' and their NATO air support ( massive sorties to destroy everything )arrived and has remained so.
It spelled and end to the great water project and the birth of a Pan African currency free of the IMF.
From the highest standard of living in Africa to another ruined nation under the foot of NATO.
Everything else is propaganda.

The real issue is DEMOCRACY.

The capitalists and foreign governments maybe interested in oil and other considerations. But for the Libyans, the issue is democracy. They did rise up to gain democracy. All other things are sound bites.

They no longer wanted to sit, kneel, lie down or beg on every Gaddafi's dog whistle.

it's all about privatization

for trans-national corporate profit

using the population as political pawns is just business as usual for them

if you look at that population's standard of living since the occupation, you see how it nosedived, just as it has everywhere else we've bombed for democracy so CEO's and rich shareholders can steal even more of the working poor's resources

it's part of the class struggle the upper classes are desperate to distract us from, so they use propaganda to pretend it's for the very people they are crushing under the heel of corporatism.

Are the French better off a year after the French Revolution? Are the Americans better off a year after the American Revolution? Revolutions are not dinner parties. They cannot be so refined.

You expect Libyan people be better off immediately after a civil war. You must be dreaming.

Gaining political power from 42-year dictatorship by one man is just the beginning not the end.

False Dichotomy

"The fallacy of false dichotomy is committed when the arguer claims that his conclusion is one of only two options, when in fact there are other possibilities."

repeating the talking point doesn't make it anymore true

and repeating the same fallacy tactic doesn't make it anymore valid

Your repitition doesn't make any sense at all.

On other hand my repetition answers your assertion that lives of Libyans were worse off than during Gaddafi's time,

Maybe true but what do you expect when they just emerge from a civil war?

Anyway, let us just agree to disagree.

Libya today remains fragmented :

http://politicsinspires.org/2012/04/federalism-in-libya-already-in-the-dustbin-of-history/


Libya’s oil was privatized :

http://pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/libya-open-for-business.html

The Global Satanic Government (The CIA), their Satan Worshiping Europoodles in The EU, and The CIA's Satan Worshipers Pretending to be Muslims the Pro Satanic Militants in The New Libyian Satanic Govt. joyfully, Fanatically, Unashamedly, Satanically, Sadistically and Ritually using Libyians for Target Practice on a Daily Basis in The CIA's Post 9-11 War on Islam in Libya with Fiendish Glee, as they The CIA's Pro Satanic Militants joyfully, Fanatictally, Unashamedly, Satanically, Sadistically, and Ritually Pledge their Undying Loyalty to Satan and their Loathing of Allah and The People of Libya, while they join ranks with The CIA's Satanic Saudi Salafist Miltants in Syria and join in on The CIA's War on Islam in Sryia, where Syrians Civilians like Libyian Civilians are being used for Target Practice left and right 24/7 as a Sacrafice to their False God Satan.

This long thread confirms the title: "Qaddafi lies live on after him"

hasbara and megaphone