Israeli Military Hides Report Confirming Expanded Settlements
The Israeli newspaper Haaretz is reporting that the Israeli military is withholding the release of a secret study that confirms there has been rampant illegal new construction in dozens of Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Some of the expanded settlements has occurred on privately owned Palestinian land. Security sources familiar with the study described the study as "political and diplomatic dynamite." Sources in the Israeli military said the report is not being made public in order to avoid a crisis with the U.S. government.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/24/1412238

Palestinian Leaders Condemn Israel’s Attack in Gaza
Meanwhile Palestinian leaders are condemning Israel’s attack on the northern Gaza Strip that killed seven Palestinians on Monday. Hamas leader and Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh denounced Israel for launching the raid at the beginning of Eid, the holiday that marks the end of the Ramadan.

* Ismail Haniyeh: "These threats to invade comes as part of the overall escalation and the war which the Palestinian people are enduring but here I assure you that the Palestinian people will not be frightened by these threats and the people of Gaza Strip are steadfast against the occupation and in the face of the rising Israeli escalation."

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas described Israel’s killings on Monday as a "criminal massacre."
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/24/1412238

Why are 2.4 million Palestinians squeezed into this edge of land, suffering food and water shortages and indiscriminate extra judicial executions, facing the sea with no ability to move freely in or out? Because they like the view?
Ask BECKY. She knows all about it.

Why didn't Poles call Oscar Schindler "neighbor" "friend" or "partner"?

Is it because Schindler was a nazi invador feasting off the mysery of the vanquished Poles???

Nazis didn't just steal private property in Poland, but public lands too. And it was just as offensive for Nazis to steal Poland's public lands as it was for them to steal private property. Same for Zionist crusaders occupying Palestinian lands. Duh.

NOTHING showcases the prejudices of the Zionist's enablers more than when they call Palestinians the "neighbors" of Zionists crusaders.

One of the reasonsthe early reports out of Deir Yasin were so misleading is beacuse the Iraqi soldiers stationed there were dressed in woman's clothing.
This seems to be a time honored tradition in their culture:


Kidnapped AP Photographer Freed in Gaza -
Associated Press photographer Emilio Morenatti, 37, was freed unharmed Tuesday after a harrowing day in the hands of Palestinians who abducted him at gunpoint and dressed him in women's clothes to spirit him from one secret location to another.

Them's good eating! Seawater's real good for drinking, too.

Um, you got a **SOURCE** for this crap about Iraqi troops in Deir Yassin, zio-jerk-off?

Palestinians in Gaza don't suffer AS MUCH AS people in the Sudan suffer, so SOME people would use that fact to white wash the suffering that the Zionist's war of conquest does force onto the Zionist's chosen Palestinian victims.

AFTER Zionists stole the Palestinian's farms and orchards and graizing lands, Palestinians are left as a "begger state". Is that so suprizing??? AFTER Nazis stole Polish factories, Poles begged for work at Oscar Schindler's factory in Krackow.

Funding was misused by the Palestinian leaders whom Zionists could make deals with. After Hamas was elected, and Palestinian leaders were NOT as easy to buy off, funding for the Palestinians gets tanked.

Greenhouses? Donated??? Sorry, Zionists offered to sell those monuments of Zionist occupation to the Palestinians. And with all the bombing ZIonists have done in Gaza since the pullout (like when a rapist pulls out of his victims vagina to rape her anus, witness the lead article) , there is not much chance those greenhouses would still be standing today, had the Palestinians paid ZIonists for the structures. Nobody paid Nazis for the buildings and facilities they built in the lands nazis occupied.

Palestinians hardships (farms and orchards and hotels, etc stolen by ZIonists) are the fault of Palestinians??? Because they refuse to see that Zionists stole thier homeland and will not leave the Palestinian's homeland??? The very epitomy of scapegoating, that is.

Sorry, but I think the Palestinians know damned well that Zionists stole thier homeland and murder the Palestinians who would liberate thier own farms and orchards. And they don't see the ZIonist's occupation of thier farms and orchards as "peace and prosperity" any more than Krackow Poles saw Oscar schindler feasting off the mysery of the vanquished Poles as "peace and prosperity". Such scapegoating tactics being used over and over sure shows how willing SOME people can be to white wash the Zionist's chosen war of conquest.

9000000. Well, there are SOME people who think that Zionist occupation of palestine is a reason to liberate Palestine (farms orchards graizing land etc etc). And then there are SOME people who think, oops, I mean SOME people who FEEL that Zionist occupation of Palestine is a reason to appease and even support Zionist occupation of Palestinian lands. How prejudiced you are would determine which subset you belong.

800000 Zionists live (LIVE) outside of ZIonist occupied Palestine. they have shown the whole world , including the Zionist crusaders, that Palestinian farms, orchards, etc can be liberated without ANY Zionists getting harmed. All the ZIonists have to do is end thier bloodsoaked crusade, get out of all of Palestine, and NEVER torment the Palestinians again.

Arafat signed. Yes, he was one of the palestinians Zionists could buy off. And Vichy France legaly subjugated French people to Nazis by rule of thier law.

"Iseal's war of independance"?

Against whom??? English rulers left.

Zionist broak out of thier beachhead kibbutzes, which they established under English dictate, and proceded to steal the 54% of Palestine that 33 western interloaper states said the Zionists could steal. Palestinians resisted, so Zionist murdered the resisters and stole even more than the 54% of PALESTINE that 33 western interloaper states said Zionists could steal.

Zionists planting thier flags on Palestinian lands and murdering the Palestinians who resist the Zionist's western interloaper approved theft of Palestinian lands doesn't sound like the tipical war of independance.

If someone were to come into your home and takes your TV set god , then that person would be a THIEF, right??? We ALL know that much. And if you were to try to stop the THIEF from stealing YOUR TV set god, only for the THIEF to pull a gun and blow your brains all over your family and still steals your survivor's TV set god, then that THIEF becomes a MURDERER as well, RIGHT??? Ziionists are murderous thieves.

Zionists are still stealing Palestinians lands and still murdering Palestinians who dare to resist (as well as Palestinians the ZIonist crusaders decide are just i the wrong place) the Zionist's murderous theft of more and more Palestinian lands.

And of the THIEF who was trying to steal YOUR TV set god. What if you resisted and he killed you but then your son resisted and the MURDEROUS THIEF got killed. Would your son be called a MURDERER as Zionists call Palestinian freedom fighters??? And what if the MURDEROUS THIEF who tried to steal your survivor's TV set god brought his children along to learn how to be a MURDEROUS THIEVES (like new generations of Zionists have done since 1948, and EVEN AS YOU READ THESE WORDS in the west bank!!!) ??? If they got killed, the MURDEROUS THIEF would be blaimed for endangering his OWN kids just as HE endangered YOURS with HIS offensive actions.

The relativly tiny number of Zionist civilians made a good living on a disproportionaly large section of Gaza which they occupied. And Oscar Schindler made a good living too. When allied bombing virtualy stopped food transportation, gardens at Auschwitzs were able to feed the relativly few german guards.

You pick some odd things to ramble on about.

Not only did the greenhouse feed the Israelis , they allowed them to export fruit, vegetables and flowers across the world. It wasn't just for personal consumption. It was a business. A business, incidently, that employed 3500 Palestinians.
3500 Palestinians who are now unemployed and who are having trouble feeding their families.
Yep. Choices have consequences.

Prior to Israel's August withdrawal, the residents of Gaza's Gush Katif slate of Jewish communities ran greenhouses known for producing high-quality insect-free vegetables. The Gush Katif gardens featured some of the most technologically advanced agricultural equipment and accounted for more than $100 million per year in exports to Europe. The greenhouses also supplied Israel with 75 percent of its own produce.

Isn't it true that Palestine was destitute until Israelis made its desert bloom?

למאמר בעברית



As it will be proven below, this myth about Palestine and its people was concocted to romanticize the "Jewish return and redemption of the Promised Land". Ironically, what used to be a Palestinian desert as of 1948 is still a desert to this date, and most likely it will continue to be a desert for years to come.

Based on the CIA's online Worldfact Book, let's compare the Israeli and Lebanese agricultural production as of year 2000:


Israel Lebanon
Total land size 20,330 sq km 10,230 sq km
Arable land size 17% = 3,456.1 sq km 18% = 1,841.4 sq km
Population 5.94 million 3.64 million
Total GDP $110.2 billion (2000 est.) $18.2 billion (2000 est.)
Agriculture production 4% of GDP = $4.4 Billion 12% of GDP = $2.184 Billion
Online Profile Profile @ CIA Profile @ CIA

After adjusting Lebanon's statistics to reflect the size difference (in arable land size and demographics) compared to Israel's, Lebanon's agricultural production becomes $4.368 billion, which is little short of Israel's ($4.4 billion). While contemplating these facts, it's also worth noting the following facts about both countries:

* Most, if not all, of the Palestinian-Israelis (who constitute 20%-22% of the total population) are farmers who mostly reside in the most fertile Israeli areas, where agriculture was (and still is) their main profession for hundreds of years, click here for a map illustrating the concentration of the Palestinian-Israelis in Israel.
* The Lebanese infrastructure was devastated during the 1982-2000 Israeli occupation and its civil war. And if it wasn't for this devastation, Lebanon's agricultural production would have been much larger than $2.184 a year.
* Israel has been investing billions of dollars, mostly financed by U.S. taxpayers, to divert fresh waters from the Jordan River and Tiberias Lake. On the other hand, Lebanon has had no such good luck.
* The great majority of Israel's Jewish population are urban dwellers, who are mostly concentrated in and around the cities of Tel-Aviv-Jaffa, Jerusalem, and Haifa. It may surprise the reader that Israel has the highest rate of urban dwellers of any industrial country, click here for graph illustration.

In other words, since the Lebanese and Palestinian societies were very similar in many areas, then it's easy to conclude that Palestinians would have produced as much as the Lebanese if it wasn't for their dispossession by the Israelis.

It should be emphasized that the most zealous of Zionists will find it hard to disprove that Jaffa's citrus plantations were first planted, marketed to Europe, packaged, and harvested by mainly Palestinian Arab companies, click here for the proof. As early as 1891, Ahad Ha'Am (a leading Eastern European Jewish essayist) tried to open many Jewish eyes to the fact that Palestine was not a desolate place, he reported upon visiting Palestine for three months in 1891:

"We abroad are used to believe the Eretz Yisrael is now almost totally desolate, a desert that is not sowed ..... But in truth that is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult to find fields that are not sowed. Only sand dunes and stony mountains .... are not cultivated." (Righteous Victims, p. 42)

To get a detailed accounting of the agricultural production in Palestine for the season of 1944-1945, we will directly quote the British Mandate (who prepared two volume books, titled Survey of Palestine, for the United Nations in 1946-7) as follows:



Palestinian




Jewish




Total
Dunums Tons Value* Dunums Tons Value* Dunums Tons Value*

Grains


4,152,438 193,376 4,403,409 215,191 16,579 497,048 4,367,629 209,955 4,900,457
Vegetables 239,733 189,104 5,113,553 40,207 55,730 1,745,870 279,940 244,834 6,859,423
Fodder 23,970 20,827 156,847 119,578 176,525 951,178 143,543 197,352 1,108,025
Fruits** 355,709 73,320 3,139,374 37,217 21,398 1,379,620 392,926 94,718 4,518,994
Olives 592,546 78,287 3,320,320 7,587 1,182 53,235 600,133 79,469 3,373,555
Melons 120,304 135,634 969,630 5,675 7,193 83,975 125,979 142,827 1,053,605
Total 5,484,700 690,548 17,103,133 425,455 278,607 4,710,926 5,910,150 969,155 21,814,059



Percentage 92.8% 71.25% 78.40% 7.20% 28.75% 21.60% 100% 100% 100%

Source: Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for the United Nations, p. 323-327
* Value in Palestinian Pound
** Non-citrus fruits. Note that Citrus production totaled of 248,274 dunums of which 120,897 dunums were Jewish owned (Supplement to Survey of Palestine, p. 37)

and the animal population in accordance to data collected in the census carried out in 1942-43 was as follows;


Palestinian in 1943 Jewish in 1942
Cattle 219,400 28,400
Sheep over 1 year 224,900 19,100
Goats over 1 year 314,600 10,800
Camels 33,200 ---
Horses 16,900 2,200
Mules 73,00 2,500
Donkeys 105,400 2,300
Pigs 12,100 ---
Total 933,800 65,300



Percentage 93.46% 6.54%

Source: Survey of Palestine, prepared by the British Mandate for the United Nations, p. 331

As of now, it should be noted that 80% of the Palestinian people have continued to be dispossessed of their properties for the past five decades.

For the moment, let's assume that the baseless myth is true, the questions that many Palestinians ask are:

* Does that legitimize the outright theft of the Palestinian people's homes, farms, businesses, banks, cars, buses, schools, ... etc.? It should be noted that Palestinians owned and operated over 93% of Palestine's lands as of 1945, click here for a map illustration. In November 1947, the architect of the "transfer solution", Yosef Weitz, stated that the collective DISPOSSESSION of the Palestinian people was an inevitable outcome because of the high rate of land ownership among Palestinians. He stated:

"[most of the land] not Jewish-owned or even in the category of the state domain whose ownership could be automatically assumed by a successor government. Thus, of 13,500,000 dunums (6,000,000 of which were desert and 7,500,000 dunums of cultivatable land) in the Jewish state according to the Partition plan, only 1,500,000 dunums were Jewish owned." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 182)

* Could one legitimize the outright theft of the American New Yorkers' homes, cars, banks, schools, ... etc. since American Jews are the ones who converted New York City into the Worlds' financial and industrial metropolis? It's not only that Jewish Americans are the largest minority in New York City, they practically built it from ground up. In other words, if such an argument logically justifies dispossessing and ethnically cleansing the Palestinian people, why isn't it a good argument for collectively dispossessing and ethnically cleansing the American non-Jewish population in New York City?

This baseless myth, although an outright lie, attempts to paint a romantic vision for the "Promised Land" i.e. that it was destitute for 2,000 years until the "returning Jews" made its desert "bloom". It is sad to see how far this myth has been propagated in the Israeli school system and society in order to legitimize the continued collective dispossession of the Palestinian people.

You can't C & P this with out doing no reconfiguring, Clem.
Also, you can't plagiarize. Show links and sources.
tisk.

Palestinian produced foods are rotting because zionist occupiers prevented the Palestinians from shipping them out. That is the NOW.

And we are supposed to believe the Zionist occuiers would let food stuffs produced in the greenhouses improve the lives of palestinians when Zionists already let the Palestinian export crops rot?

Palestinians suffer because Zionists are murderous thieves of palestine's farms and orchards and graizing lands, and hotels etc. Trying to scapegoat Palestinians just showcases your own vile prejudices.

When Zionists occupied Lebanon in the 1980s, Zionists ransacked Lebanon of industrial equipment and destroyed orchards that compeated with the orchards ZIonists murdered Palestinians to controle.

Palestine was a desert??? Zionist enablers would have the braindead believe that Palestinians survived by eating sand.

Zionist propaganda is so pathetic, only the most prejudiced of souls would fall for it. Can you recall when Zionist propaganda monopolized the public's "understanding"??? Seeems like a thousand years ago since thier lies poisoned our souls.

Isn't it true that Palestinians never had either a state, nor any distinct culture or language of their own? למאמר בעברית



For the moment, let's assume that the Palestinian people should not have a country of their own because they have never had a state, then why should the peoples of Salvador, Guatemala, Congo, Algeria, ... etc. have the right of self determination?

It should be noted that none of these countries had a state prior to gaining independence, nor a distinct language or culture that set them apart from their neighboring states. In other words, even if it's true that the Palestinian people had neither a state, nor a distinct culture or language:

* Is that a good reason to confiscate their homes, farms, and businesses?
* Is that a good reason to block their return to their homes?
* Is that a good reason to nullify their citizenship in the country in which they were born?

According to historical facts, Zionism, as an ideology, evolved in response to the rise of Europe's nationalism and anti-Semitism in the late 19th century, especially in Tsarist Russia (Pale States), France during the Dreyfus affair, and Germany after WW I.

Similarly, Palestinian nationalism evolved in response to the presence of Zionism in Palestine, and most importantly because of the British intention to turn Palestine into a "Jewish National Home," see the Balfour Declaration for further details. These central facts were well articulated by David Ben-Gurion (Israel's 1st Prime Minister) and Moshe Sharett (Israel's 1st Foreign Minister) on many occasions. For example:

* A few months before the peace conference convened at Versailles in early 1919, Ben-Gurion expressed his opinion of future Jewish and Arab relations:

"Everybody sees the problem in the relations between the Jews and the [Palestinian] Arabs. But not everybody sees that there's no solution to it. There is no solution! . . . The conflict between the interests of the Jews and the interests of the [Palestinian] Arabs in Palestine cannot be resolved by sophisms. I don't know any Arabs who would agree to Palestine being ours---even if we learn Arabic . . .and I have no need to learn Arabic. On the other hand, I don't see why 'Mustafa' should learn Hebrew. . . . There's a national question here. We want the country to be ours. The Arabs want the country to be theirs." (One Palestine Complete, p. 116)

*

On May 27, 1931, Ben-Gurion recognized that the "Arab question" is a

"tragic question of fate" that arose only as a consequence of Zionism, and so was a "question of Zionist fulfillment in the light of Arab reality." In other words, this was a Zionist rather than an Arab question, posed to Zionists who were perplexed about how they could fulfill their aspirations in a land already inhabited by a Palestinian Arab majority. (Shabtai Teveth, p. xii, Preface)

*

As the number of Jews in Palestine (Yishuv) doubled between 1931-1935, the Palestinian people became threatened with being dispossessed and for Jews becoming their masters. The Palestinian political movement was becoming more vocal and organized, which surprised Ben-Gurion. In his opinion, the demonstrations represented a "turning point" important enough to warrant Zionist concern. As he told Mapai comrades:

". . . they [referring to Palestinians] showed new power and remarkable discipline. Many of them were killed . . . this time not murderers and rioters, but political demonstrators. Despite the tremendous unrest, the order not to harm Jews was obeyed. This shows exceptional political discipline. There is no doubt that these events will leave a profound imprint on the [Palestinian] Arab movement. This time we have seen a political movement which must evoke the respect of the world. (Shabtai Teveth, p. 126)

*

But Ben-Gurion set limits. The Palestinian people were incapable by themselves of developing Palestine, and they had no right to stand in the way of the Jews. He argued in 1918, that Jews' rights sprang not only from the past, but also from the future. In 1924 he declared:

"We do not recognize the right of the [Palestinian] Arabs to rule the country, since Palestine is still undeveloped and awaits its builders." In 1928 he pronounced that "the [Palestinian] Arabs have no right to close the country to us [Jews]. What right do they have to the Negev desert, which is uninhabited?"; and in 1930, "The [Palestinian] Arabs have no right to the Jordan river, and no right to prevent the construction of a power plant [by a Jewish concern]. They have a right only to that which they have created and to their homes." (Shabtai Teveth, p. 38)

In other words, the Palestinian people are entitled to no political rights whatsoever, and if they have any rights to begin with, these rights are confined to their places of residence. Ironically, this statement was written when the Palestinian people constituted 85% of Palestine's population, and owned and operated over 97% of its lands!

*

In February 1937, Ben-Gurion was on the brink of a far reaching conclusion, that the Arabs of Palestine were a separate people, distinct from other Arabs and deserving of self-determination. He stated:

"The right which the Arabs in Palestine have is one due to the inhabitants of any country . . . because they live here, and not because they are Arabs . . . The Arab inhabitants of Palestine should enjoy all the rights of citizens and all political rights, not only as individuals, but as a national community, just like the Jews." (Shabtai Teveth, p. 170)

* In 1936 (soon after the outbreak of the First Palestinian Intifada), Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary:

"The Arabs fear of our power is intensifying, [Arabs] see exactly the opposite of what we see. It doesn't matter whether or not their view is correct.... They see [Jewish] immigration on a giant scale .... they see the Jews fortify themselves economically .. They see the best lands passing into our hands. They see England identify with Zionism. ..... [Arabs are] fighting dispossession ... The fear is not of losing the land, but of losing homeland of the Arab people, which others want to turn it into the homeland of the Jewish people. There is a fundamental conflict. We and they want the same thing: We both want Palestine ..... By our very presence and progress here, [we] have matured the [Arab] movement." (Righteous Victims, p.136)
* In 1938, Ben-Gurion also stated against the backdrop of the First Palestinian Intifada:

"When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves ---- that is ONLY half the truth. As regards our security and life we defend ourselves. . . . But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict, which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves." (Righteous Victims, p. 652)
*

In 1936, Moshe Sharett spoke in a similar vein:

"Fear is the main factor in [Palestinian] Arab politics. . . . There is no Arab who is not harmed by Jews' entry into Palestine." (Righteous Victims, p.136)

So if the causes of Zionism had not risen, meaning European anti-Semitism, then Palestinian nationalism might not have evolved into what it is today. It's worth noting that the Palestinian people, prior to WW I, always identified themselves as being part of "The Great Syria" (Suriyya al-Kubra), however, that drastically changed when Britain intended to turn Palestine into a "Jewish National Home", see the Balfour Declaration for more details.

This declaration, which was made to the Zionist Movement in 1917, signaled the future dispossession and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people because it did not address their political rights. On the other hand, the declaration recognized the political rights of the "Jewish people" around the world, despite the fact that the Jews in Palestine were under 8% of the total population as of 1914 (Righteous Victims, p. 83). In that respect, Lord Balfour, who was the British Foreign Secretary and a self-professed Christian Zionist, stated in 1919:

"Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-old traditions, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder importance than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 [Palestinian] Arabs who now inhabit the ancient land." (Righteous Victims, p. 75)

In response to this declaration, the Palestinian people started to collectively oppose the British Mandate, Jewish immigration, and land sales to the Zionist movement.

Rather than dealing directly with the issues, sadly many Israelis and Zionists have chosen to ignore the existence of the Palestinians as a people. It should be emphasized that the hawk of all Israeli hawks, Ariel Sharon, has accepted the existence of a Palestinian state, in principle, in a portion of historic Palestine. Whether Israelis and Zionists like it or not, Palestine now exists as a postal code, international calling code, internet domain name, ...etc. in the heart of "Eretz Yisrael". The 8.5 million Palestinians are not going away, and the sooner Israelis and Zionists understand this simple message, the faster they shall start dealing with core issues of the conflict in a pragmatic way.

Finally, applying such logic is very dangerous since it would eliminate half United Nations' members overnight. It is simply not just to suppress the political, economic, and civil rights of the Palestinian people by claiming that they never previously had a state, distinct language, and distinct culture. Ironically, the Zionist movement has been encouraging Jews from all corners of the world to emigrate to "Eretz Yisrael", so that there is no real common denominator between all of these immigrants such as a common language, culture, country of origin, or even a unified interpretation of "who is a Jew".

"Palestinian produced foods are rotting because zionist occupiers prevented the Palestinians from shipping them out. That is the NOW."

So why are there reports all over Indymedia of Palestinians starving? Food rotting- Palestinians starving. Even a rocket sciencitist like you could figure out the next logical step.

Take your time. It will come to you.

Palestinians have basicly a plantation agriculture where they produce a few food stuffs that do the best in THIER homeland. try eating olives and drinking orange juice morning noon and night and malnutrition will chatch up to you pretty quickly. Duh.

And sure, we got your "point". You pre-supposed that Palestinians are not suffering 60 years because ZIonists are murderous thieves of palestinian lands, but because of tiny exaples you can sight. WOW. You have made it clear enough that you will write anything to scapegoat the victims of the Zionist bloodsoaked crusade. Be proud of your delusions. Noone else is.

Nyupe. PrionPartyy hit the nail perfectly. How many times do your Jedel mind tricks have to flop before you realize it's not **US** who are weak-minded??

Olives don't rot. Olives are prepared in such a way that they keep.

But it seems that you did acknowledge the truth about the greenhouses. So you are learning something. We are fufilling our purpose here!

is someone writing about starving Palestinians??? I know I didn't. But I guess the ONLY way you can attack my message is if you make it up. How pathetic it is to white wash the Zionist's offenses and sweep the Zionist crusader imposed suffering of Palestinians under the carpet with deceptions.

palestinian hardships, suffering of Palestinians, malnutrition which is a hardship and suffering which causes all kinds of health problems later.

Palestinians get killed by zionists crusaders. That Palestinians are not starving does not mean Zionists are something other than murderous thieves or that Democraps and republitrash support of the Zionist's bloodsoaked crusade is anything other than an offense.

Nazi occupied Danes were not starving either. Does that mean the nazi's invasion and occupation of Denmark was somehow (?) less of an offense?

Here's a bit about Lee nutcase Kaplan:
http://kaplanwatch.blogspot.com/

Lee Kaplan may be under investigation by the General Counsel of the House of Representatives for impersonating a Congress staffer:

Not the first time Lee has jumped into a conference call. (See for example
http://www.stoptheism.com/?M=&T=253 )
Not the first time Lee has claimed to be someone else (though if I were Lee
Kaplan, I would understand that temptation).

But this may be the first time he has done both and is in legal jeopardy
because of it.

A conference call arranged by Donna Baranski-Walker of the Rebuilding
Alliance for those concerned for justice in Palestine, and with the staff of
congressperson Anne Eshoo was hijacked by Lee (allegedly) who claimed to be
a staff person for Anne Eshoo. Somehow he got ahold of the conference call
info numbers, and logged on early. When people began to call up, he said
that he was a staffer from Eshoo's office and that the call was illegal, and
that it has been cancelled.

Last I heard, the House is sending someone to investigate.
Looks like crimes were committed here. Let's hope that justice will be
done.

More information about the incident is available at the Rebuilding Alliance blog:

A couple of weeks ago, we began our third teleconference with a senior staffer for Congresswoman Anna Eschoo. However, as participants convened, “Mr. Lee Mulberry” claimed that he was a member of Congresswoman Eschoo’s staff, said that the teleconference was illegal, and made derogatory remarks about our guest speaker from Gaza (”he’s a terrorist”) before we were able to restore order by muting his call. Because of this disruption by the rogue caller, the teleconference was re-scheduled.

After some detective work, we discovered that “Mr. Mulberry” was, in actuality, Mr. Lee Kaplan, who had previously contacted Congresswoman Eschoo’s staff insisting that such teleconferences were illegal. Contrary to his assertion, the staff’s legal counsel learned from Alliance for Justice and the California Association of Non-Profits that the Rebuilding Alliance has the “right and responsibility” to lobby (including conducting teleconferences) within the 501(h) guidelines established by the United States tax code. In response, Rep. Eschoo’s Chief of Staff, Mr. Jason Mahler, said “We take it very seriously [when] someone impersonates a member of staff and proceeds to insult our constituents” and opined that that Mr. Kaplan’s actions were “extremely unusual and likely illegal.” Thus, one outcome of Mr. Kaplan’s outrageous action is that the General Counsel of the House of Representatives is now investigating him for impersonating a congressional staffer.

So when you can't argue with your political opponents, harass and intimidate them... sounds like good ole Lee.

Two versions of the same story:

Palestinian gunmen holed up in a mosque escaped Friday as Israeli forces fired at a group of women who streamed to the scene to serve as human shields, killing one and wounding 10, the army and witnesses said. At least two of the escaping gunmen were disguised as veiled women.
The dead woman was one of several hundred who had heeded a call by Hamas militants to ring the mosque in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun. Their presence allowed the gunmen inside to escape, some reportedly wearing robes supplied by the women, ending their 19-hour standoff with soldiers parked outside in tanks and armored personnel carriers.

*******

A protest ensued by the village women
determined to break the siege and free their men who
were confined by the army inside one of the village
mosques. The women demonstrated and managed to give
free passage to the men inside the mosque. At least
15 injured women were received in the Al-Awda
Hospital, but two were shot dead by the Israeli army.

Women, huh? Fucking brave women, that's for sure. Facing live round ball fire. With an Army of these women I could rule the world.
ha ha ha ha ha
Think what they could do with some effective weapons.
israel should take serious steps to de escalate the violence before their own weapons are shoved up their collective zionist's asses.

"I know my waist is slender my fingers they are small
But it would not make me tremble to face the cannon ball."

My prediction: In two weeks this will be spun to demonize Israel for firing on unarmed women. The fact they were shielding gunman will be completely forgotten on Indymedia.

flesh and spirit that you will never crush, against fire and steel.
You can only kill them.

Oh, that's right. If israel kills a 'civilian' it is only a potential terrorist. The only deaths that are tragic are the deaths of israelis. As evidenced by the huge disparity in the ratio of 'civilians' that die.

Reuters - Fri Nov 3, 5:39 PM ET A wounded Palestinian woman lies on the ground as others run for cover after an Israeli tank opened fire at them at Beit Hanoun town in northern Gaza strip, November 3, 2006. (Suhaib Salem/Reuters)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/061103/photos_ts/2006_11_03t040719_450x263_us_mideast";>reuters via yahoo
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Palestinian gunmen holed up in a mosque escaped Friday as Israeli forces fired at a group of women who streamed to the scene to serve as human shields, killing one and wounding 10, the army and witnesses said. At least two of the escaping gunmen were disguised as veiled women.
The dead woman was one of several hundred who had heeded a call by Hamas militants to ring the mosque in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun. Their presence allowed the gunmen inside to escape, some reportedly wearing robes supplied by the women ( atime honored Islamic tradition, dating back to Deir Yassin) ending their 19-hour standoff with soldiers parked outside in tanks and armored personnel carriers.

Let's play a game:

I show you the evidence,
and you be the faith-based excuse-maker for Zion.

Is that kosher with you?

Tia, I thought you had said you wouldn't post previously hidden stuff?
Was this just a lie?

scroll up and see!

Or being very concrete and playing on a technicality. You said you wouldn't post previously hidden stuff and this picture was hidden on another thread...

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=186244#186336

In her heart of hearts, she probably secretly defines it the same way Jabotinsky did. She IS his ideological great-granddaughter, after all

I've counted 6 times you've repeated this crap. If thats not spam, what is?

Selective memory is par for course for bigots.
Gotta type a paper and get ready for a conference.
Won't hold my breath for tia to address her zionist bigotry...

Looks like you finally nailed the teflon librarian

I thought I;d 'nailed' her on the obvious 'expose' of the soft toy staged photo series amid the somewhere ruins, "planting".

Crypto-racism and aversive racism

Elmar Holenstein uses the term crypto-racism as a synonym what he calls "hidden racism".[5] while blogger Josh Marshall uses it in contrast to "closet racism" (usage example [1]).

Some scholars use the term "aversive racism" to refer to the “subtle, unintentional form of bias that is presumed to characterize a substantial proportion of White liberals” (Son Hing et al, 275).[6]

Because they have internalized liberal egalitarian values, aversive racists are motivated to experience themselves as being nonprejudiced, but at the same time have unconscious, unavoidable racist feelings or judgements of which they’re typically unaware (ibid). Aversive racists will express these racist feelings or judgements in situations where a non-racialized justification to do so exists. "Thus, aversive racists are able to discriminate without acknowledging their prejudice because they excuse or justify their behaviour on‘reasonable’ grounds” (ibid, 290). It's likely that most people living in a liberal democratic, racially-structured society are aversive racists.

Don't go throwing your arm out patting yourself on the back, there, hun'. Your "invincibility" does not arise from any virtue. On the contrary, it's the inevitable evolutionary outcome of the way the Horrible Mistake SELECTS FOR YOUR TYPE, i.e. people of the Rat Totem. Over the millenia of your unique affinity for the rat warrens called "cities," you've excelled at swimming over the other rats to get the cheese, that's all. This isn't really a thing one should swell up with pride about.

The Horrible Mistake despises all that is truly virtuous in humans. It's been conniving to exterminate those qualities from the beginning, replacing all of them with the creepy fake virtue called "being *smart*." It's been working its hideous magic on you longer than anybody, and you are clearly its crowning triumph...

Yes, you've survived this and that, etc., but here's the real question: will you survive YOURSELVES. Parasites/criminals can't live in a monoculture. They MUST have a hapless host to suck blood from. What are you going to do when you can't fool anybody anymore?

...and his GROTESQUE DOUBLE STANDARDS. Yeah, birds of a feather...

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/10/185833_comment.php#186830

Then why do you always use the words, "race-baiting"
You're getting technical. You can call it bigotry/racism/prejudice toward a religion. Either way.
Same shit and you know it. Just another case of hypocrisy. What's good for the goose is never good for the gander with zionazis.

Alaways point the finger at someone else, better than addressing the issue

to wit: Because they'd rather die defying the ravening monster called 'Israel' than live subjugated by it

Too bad you don't have their *soul* and their *guts*. If you did, maybe WWII wouldn't have gone quite so bad for you. Hitler *wanted* to do the same shit to the Slavs and Greeks, but he couldn't because they united behind fierce armed undergrounds he had to avoid, fierce undergrounds made up of HEROES who knowingly laid down their lives TO DEFEND THEIR PEOPLE. You could have done that, but evidently there was a crucial ingredient missing...

Yet again
More of theri true colors.
Zionism is religious-racial supremism.
How sad.
Maybe one day the heathen Muslims will be as civilized as the Joos.
Sounds very similar to the attitude of the white Christians toward the Native Americans--you know, the ones who raped and piliged the Americas

It's the fact that he's a SCREAMING ZIONIST PROPAGANDIST ASSHOLE that causes me dismiss his shit out of hand

http://www.pierrerehov.com/

Did you really imagine that shit would WORK?? Wow, you are getting so WEAK!!

Plus there's the way this asshole is the only "source" you were REALLY citing, isn't that right hun-neeeeee? You just recently watched his screaming asshole propaganda blitz, 'Suicide Killers,' didn'cha? Those academic journals, they don't really document your claim that "the 72 virgins that are the main motivating factor" in suicide bombings. You just pulled them outta yer ass. You have no idea what they conclude.

So now we have another exhibit in the 'Tia's a racist pig' showcase! I'll have to point this out to dawg!

This asshole works with Metula News, Israel's propaganda arm in France! He's one of the "French" zionist fanatics behind the "bebunking" of the Mohammed al-Dura "hoax"

A maniac like this is your idea of someone credible??? You need to go run your fucking brain through the dishwasher or something

And of course, the response to you is "an ad hominim is not a rebuttal. " Simply because he has an orientation one way or the other doesn't affect the accuracy of what he says. At least thats what i keep hearing about the "electronic intifada" and your other various propaganda organs .

What about these?

Suicide bombing: a psychodynamic view.
J Am Acad Psychoanal Dyn Psychiatry. 2006 Fall;34(3):523-30; discussion 531-4.

"Ordinary people" and "death work": Palestinian suicide bombers as victimizers and victims.
Violence Vict. 2005 Dec;20(6):603-23.

Talking to you is like talking to a flat -earther- do amount of proof- scientific, eyewitness, photographic- will ever be good enough

still naked on this thread is this question from Sharkey:
======
4. What is a Dhimmi?
========

A system that forces US citizens to pay tithes to racial-supremacist apartheid Israel without any consultation or approval.
http://www.dcdave.com/article5/061031.htm

I noticed something EXTREMELY interesting. The zionists of the 1940s harangued Hurley with a four-part argument that was virtually identical to one the trolls around here use now!

"The Zionists were basing their claim to the territory of Palestine on a number of reasons:

(1) their interpretation of Biblical references to Palestine as the homeland of the Jews;

(2) on the historic grounds that their ancestors had occupied the land until 1300 years previously;

(3) the Balfour Declaration, in which the British (in 1917) had staed that they "favored the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jews" (but with the proviso that the rights of the Arab inhabitants not be infringed upon), and

(4) the fact that the Jews of the world had many millions of dollars invested in Palestine.



take out the legal claim derived from the Balfour Deal and put in the one derived from the UN partition of 1948, and the argument matches precisely!

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/09/176775_comment.php#180780

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=169468#177662

This argument is a four-part religious/historical/ethical/legal *system* that these people are TAUGHT. It is SOOOOO creepy! The zio-whacks *claim* they all think differently, but this is clearly the opposite of the truth (as is usual for their claims). It's like there's an underground zionist "bible" out there that they all jackhammer into their brains morning noon and night

and the same 4 steps are here:
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mf1.html
the address will change....

MYTH
“The Jews have no claim to the land they call Israel.”
-------------------------
The Jewish people base their claim to the Land of Israel on at least four premises:
1) the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 2) the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people; [my friend said I could steal your home]
3) the territory was captured in defensive wars [war booty] and
4) http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1sam/18.html";>God [skydaddy] promised the land to the patriarch Abraham.
--------------------------

This status was originally only made available to non-Muslims who were People of the Book (i.e. Jews and Christians), but was later extended to include Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Mandeans, and, in some areas, Hindus[1] and Buddhists.[2][3] The status of dhimmi applied to millions of people living from the Atlantic Ocean to India from the 7th century until modern times.[4] Over time, many dhimmis converted to Islam. Most conversions were voluntary and happened for a number of different reasons. However, forced conversion did play a key role in some later periods of Islamic history, mostly in the 12th century under the Almohad dynasty of North Africa and al-Andalus as well as in Persia where Shi'a Islam is dominant.[5]

Dhimmis were allowed to "practice their religion, subject to certain conditions, and to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy" and guaranteed their personal safety and security of property, in return for paying tribute to Muslims and acknowledging Muslim supremacy.[6] Taxation from the perspective of Dhimmis who came under the Muslim rule, Cahen states, was "a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes"(but now lower under the Muslim rule[7])


"Cohen however notes that the historical evidence show that for example the Jews of Islam, especially during the formative and classical centuries, experienced much less persecution than did the Jews of Christendom. Cohen makes a detailed analysis of the factors that account for the constraints on the persecution and intolerance of Jews in Islamic world.[40]"

"in practice the actual treatment and social realities of the dhimma under Islamic rule were sometimes better than the written regulations would suggest."

Nevertheless, dhimmis sometimes managed to expand churches and synagogues and even build new ones, albeit at the price of bribing local officials in order to get permissions.[76] When non-Muslim houses of worship were built in cities founded after the Islamic conquests, Muslim jurists usually justified such evasions of the Islamic law by claiming that those churches and synagogues had existed in the earlier settlements. This logic was applied to Baghdad, which was built on the place of an eponymous Persian village, as well as to some other cities.[77]

Bernard Lewis states that there are two well-established myths available in the literature about the position of Jews in the Islamic world.[163] Mark Cohen calls them the "Myth of an interfaith utopia" and "countermyth of the Islamic persecution of Jews".

The first myth states that medieval Islam provided a peaceful heaven for Jews while Christendom relentlessly persecuted them.[164] 'A golden age of equality, of mutual respect and cooperation, especially but not exclusively in Moorish Spain'[163]

The other myth is the story of "dhimmitude" (a term coined by Bat Ye'or), of subservience and persecution and ill treatment.[163]

Lewis says these are myths and that like many myths, both contain significant elements of truth. According to Cohen they equally distort the past. The historic truth is in the middle of these extremes.[163][165]

Dhimmis were allowed to "practice their religion, subject to certain conditions, and to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy" and guaranteed their personal safety and security of property, in return for paying tribute to Muslims and acknowledging Muslim supremacy


Isn't this extortion?
Or as Tony Soprano would say "protection" money?


I love how this posting cut and pastes selectively from Wikipedia, yet id heavy handed in the editing department- for example this passage was left on the cutting room floor

Various restrictions and legal disabilities were placed on Dhimmis, such as prohibitions against bearing arms or giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims. Most of these disabilities had a social and symbolic rather than a tangible and practical character. Disarmed and unable to defend themselves in courts, dhimmis were vulnerable to the whims of rulers and the violence of mobs....

Most non-Moslems have been expelled from Moslem lands.
Now the forms of control used are considerably "less gentle"

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/11/187435.php

How did this happen?
How did an article about Israel expanding it's illegal-immoral settlements turn into a discussion about dhimmitude?

If "they do it, too" were an excuse, Hitler would be off the hook, right?

Why do the israel-philes always delfect back to those eee-vuuhl Moslems?

How did this happen?
It went from settlements to Poland to greenhouses to history to gaza to insults and fraud and back to history.

Its so limiting to think in a linear manner. try and expand your thought processes

oh look dafka
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
scroll :)

ouch I just burned my mouth on this pizza


it's quite a laugh see'ing the feeble attempts to frame and strawman


he never falls for it either, so why bother :)

Toady- you really are an idiot. You are a leech and a parasite. You have spammed that crap over 50 times in less than a week.

Proverb: Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness, lest you become like him"
I'll make an exception just this once.
Go back to the original thread

Notice this part ?

OKay
by I'll concede Sunday, Oct. 29, 2006 at 9:24 PM

Yeah- that wasn't very nice. I'll retract it.

paraphrasing Schtark naked racist:
-------------------
Americans are allowed to "practice their religion, subject to certain conditions, and to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy" and guaranteed their personal safety and security of property, in return for paying tribute to Zionists and acknowledging Jewish supremacy.
-------------------

Please explain, Zionist:
Why are American citizens forced -- without consultation or approval -- to pay tithes to http://history-bytes.blogspot.com/2006/10/not-sacred-abhorrent.html";>Israel?

(G_d's Kittens in Lebanon)

When you provide a direct response to my question I will answer your question directly, Zionist.
I know game theory backwards.

Now please explain:
Why are American citizens forced -- without consultation or approval -- to pay tithes to Israel?

I tend to place far less or even no emphasis on concepts like Ancestral memory

I believe that under the goal of actualization a person must break from the past and deal with the present otherwise the past becomes a crutch, an excuse to think and behave in negative ways

most any of us could reach back into our own past at any time for any reason and dwell in it while the present is neglected.

some people do the opposite - they worry excessively about the future and again the present is neglected..

Mental dysfunction takes many forms and patterns.. I believe zionism is a ready-made condition that people who are dysfunctional within certain parameters find a home in, like a mollusk shell it protects them from dealing with the realities, trials and problems that non-dysfunctional people are able to cope with


toward this end it would be advantageous to couch the study of zionism in modern psychoanalytic terms as has been done with conservatives

searching
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Question of Zion is divided in three sections: Zionism as Messianism, Zionism
as Psychoanalysis, and Zionism as Politics.

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/israel_studies/v011/11.1ottolenghi.html



She was discussing her latest book, "The Question of Zion," which takes a
psychoanalytic approach to Zionism and the Isreali-Palestinian conflict.

http://www.long-sunday.net/long_sunday/israelpalestine/index.html



In this book, Jacqueline Rose uses her political and psychoanalytic skills to
take an unprecedented look at Zionism

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=2-0691117500-1



The second applies a psychoanalytic perspective to Zionist thinkers and their ideas.

http://www.democratiya.com/review.asp?reviews_id=40



It might seem promising, therefore, to apply to Zionism the tools of psychoanalysis,
as Jacqueline Rose attempts to do in "The Question of Zion"(

http://www.nysun.com/article/12551

hmmm that's not a good link :)





Avner Falk: A Psychoanalytic History of the Jews - by Leon Rappoport


http://www.ideajournal.com/articles.php?id=21
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll check these out and see if anything good comes of it

I am often uncomfortable with some of the evangelical Christian Zionists.
The reasons:
1. They really are just interested in the sequel- in part two of the story. Israel is a means to an end. Our long term goals clearly diverge after a point. I seek to forestall the apocolypse- they seem to welcome it.
2. They will jump at any opportunity to try and convert you. I'm just fine with my secularism, thank you.

Zionism represents the "militarization of suffering," where any sign of passivity or weakness is regarded as a national disgrace.



But that rigidification of identity which the state justifies in terms of such a history, ensures that every catastrophe that happens to Israel becomes a confirmation of its view of itself. It leads to a fortification of the soul. This distressing overlap between the need to feel safe as a nation and the need to believe in yourself takes on the form of a repetition of trauma.

Here you really need a psychoanalytic distinction. Israel is now the fourth most militarily powerful nation in the world. It is a nuclear power. It is not in danger. The fear that Israel will be destroyed is groundless. But that does not mean that it isn’t real. The fear is real and it is understandable. This is the difficult territory: you have to say both things at once. But...when the fear becomes an identity that justifies itself by a violence that cannot acknowledge itself as violence, something has gone terribly wrong.



The best example in my book is the commandant in Gaza who steels himself in the battle against Palestinian children by remembering as he says, “the flames of the Holocaust”. This fortress mentality that Israel cannot relinquish means that it cannot see itself as the agent of violence. That is one of the effects of trauma: you can’t then see what you are capable of doing. You are always repeating a situation in which you are threatened and potentially destroyed.





Of course, Zionism is unusual in that it was a nationalist response of both the oppressor and the oppressed. Anti-semites and Jews both desired an answer to "the Jewish Question," and neither considered the displacement of an indigenous population to be an impediment or a concern. What is great about Rose's book is that she retrieves alternative voices within the jewish tradition, voices like Buber, Arendt, Lazarre, and Sholem - all of whom saw the injustice being done to the Arabs and dire consequences for the Jews themselves.





there is a "real" fear produced from the historical cycle of violence against the Jews and there is a concern for safety relative to suicide bombing. She is quite clear that such attacks are not a threat to Isreal's existence as a nation-state, but I think her point is that they trigger a knee jerk reaction that feeds upon past historical suffering. Thus many Isreali's are uable (or unwilling) to see the bombings as a response to an oppressive and humiliating occupation - they simply see is as part of the larger historical narrative of Jews being persecuted, this time by evil, fanatical "savages," etc.. Any sign of weakness reminds Isreali's of the humiliation of the holocaust - Jews "passively" being lead to slaughter. She has a great quote from Ben Gurion saying that he does not want to be identified with "those Jews," meaning those who did not resist the Nazis. It is really a fascinating book.





I do not think she discounts economic and geo- political motivations, but she is exploring the psyche of historical zionism, particularly as expressed in the writings of early leaders like Herzl and thnkers like Jabotinski.







Zionism is a propaganda miracle, and partly it was from paying attention to how fascists succeeded with theirs and replicating it. Cynicism really can't be counted out like this- just about every leading Zionist (besides Jabotinsky, who was a zealot, the genuine article) was openly a cynic and openly talked about how to use this fear of extermination to control and manipulate Jewish populations, even before the death camps. To treat Netanyahu as a naif who has never been to a shrink or known one...whose editor is equally a bumpkin oblivious to how the public statements of this Israeli clique leader will go over with American Jewish academics...it's very childish I think, strangely condescending to people clearly more powerful, better informed and wilier than the author, and the results can't be helpful. One cannot put a Military State on the couch, at least not before one establishes how this insitution, or nexus of institutions, resembles a person. As an explanation of how people, especially soldiers, are kind of won over to policies which are horrible for them and others - clearly we saw this with the US population really feeling persecuted by Sadam Hussein and everyone in the middle east and ready for a war of a extermination recently - it seems pretty obvious, but as an explanatgion of the policies of the State - she sets out to explain Israeli policy - and the deliberate manipulation of those people's whipped up fears and paranoia, it seems pretty lame and maybe something very much worse.






I have had countless conversations with Jews who say the dumbest things, like "arabs cannot be trusted," they "weren't doing anything with the land (Palestine)," or even the classic "arabs are primitive savages that must be dealt with as such."





But it cannot be denied that many Isreali's and diaspora Jews think that Isreal can do no wrong, that it can never be unjust, and certainly can never be publicly questioned. It is this experience that I think Rose effectively reveals and analyzes. The fact that the ruling elite in Isreal and elsewhere cynically exploit this common mentality does not make the mentality less effective or important.





I think most would be even quicker to support Israel if Israel was not a colonial expansionist genocidal military dictatorship. To blame these people for the policies of the state - to suggest the state is merely acing out their mishigas - is wrong.

There is something very dicey, with an ugly pedigree, about diagnosing The Jewish Neurosis as the cause of capitalist policies worldover, and it seems this is what Rose is doing. Trauma is not normally heritable in the human component of the Neurotic Entity. The Netanyahu clique has been expert at perpetually traumatizing the Israeli population, Jewish and Gentile, and pointing the fingert at a scapegoat: it does this well, but so does the US.






"That Israeli policy engendered suicide bombing was acknowledged by Rabin. Having originally promoted indiscriminate bombing of South Lebanon 'until there's nobody left there' - he was defence minister at the time - he finally came to the view that 'terror cannot be finished by one war; it's total nonsense.' By replacing 'PLO terrorism' with 'Shia terrorism', he acknowledged, Israel had done 'the worst thing' in the struggle against terrorism: 'Not one PLO terrorist,' he said, 'has ever made himself into a live bomb.'"




Rabin's mission was precisely to evade a peaceful negotiation, among other things by destroying the PLO and fostering Palestinian groups who used terrorism; this was how Israel was to achieve its geopolitcal and economic ends. It was not a silly plan; as we see it has worked.




Finklestein giving a different picture:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/14/1518230

"Mr. Rabin says, ‘Let's throw Arafat a life preserver, but on condition.’ And Dr. Ben-Ami puts it excellently, that “the P.L.O. will be Israel's subcontractor and collaborator in the Occupied Territories,” and I’m quoting Dr. Ben-Ami, "in order to suppress the genuinely democratic tendencies of the Palestinians.""





"As Dr. Ben-Ami's colleague, Avner Yaniv, put it in a very excellent book, Dilemmas of Security, he said, “The main problem for Israel was,” and now I’m quoting him, "the P.L.O.'s peace offensive. They wanted a two-state settlement. Israel did not.” And so Israel decides to crush the P.L.O. in Lebanon. It successfully did so."


If the State and its leaders really did want 'security' and not expansion and land acquisition, indeed we would have to conclude they are neurotic as Rose suggests, or incompetent, the other mainstream option. But they're not interested in security, and insecurity - for ordinary Israelis and Palestinians and Nicaraguans and Angolans - has always been of great service to their ends.





I think actually it is certainly 'The State' she is speaking of as psychopathic, because none of these individuals are violent personally, right? They can see their own violence; they're not above average domestic abusers or brawlers or rapists. That's a very convenient trauma, to exhibit itself only in politically and economically rewarding cases involving impunity, no? At least one would have to acknowledge the involvement of rationality at work there in deciding what is the most advantageous way to exhibit the effects of the trauma, and being able to instrumentalize the trauma's unwilled effects optimally in their calculated self interest, and control it completely in cases where exhibiting it would involve risk.

Zionism:
This was written over a thousand years ago


By the rivers of Babylon, we sat and wept, wept when we remembered Zion.

On the willows in its midst, we hung up our harps.

For there, those who held us captive asked us for songs. Those who tormented us demanded songs of joy: "Sing us a song of Zion!"

How can we sing the Lords song in a strange land?

If I forget you, Jerusalem, let my right hand forget its skill.

Let my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth if I don't remember you; if I don't prefer Jerusalem above my chief joy.

The Jewish liturgy is filled with such pieces. "Next year in Jerusalem " is a reoccuring theme.

I do believe in ancestral memory- The desire for a return to ZIon is deeply rooted in memory as well as tradition. I've know many elderly Jews who kept rocks or bags of soil from Israel- their intention was to be buried with it.

The way you're setting up the "present" as distinct and sacrosanct relative to "past" and "future" -- what makes you so positive this is such a great idea? Maybe your assumptions about time are more limiting than you realize.

The past is not a "crutch." It is a bottomless horde of wisdoms. Everything that is going apocalyptically wrong today, e.g. the unfolding death of the biosphere, is due to its callous abandonment in favor of the fever for the thing American future-worshippers call "progress" -- a secular variant of the biblical "promised land"

I understand you're a fan of Lyn Gerry's Unwelcome Guests. Me too.
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php?op=program-info&program_id=18494&nav=series&

Everyone, no matter what conceits they succumb to, follows a "religious" system of assumptions. Some people worship deities beyond themselves, others worship themselves above all else. Have you consciously chosen from belief's possibilities, or are you a puppet of beliefs that have chosen YOU?

Edward Bernays: "'Science' is a religion unto itself."

This thing you call "the psychoanalytic approach" -- WHAT IS IT exactly? Is it 'The Ultimate Truth' about humans or is it just another weapon in the elite toolbox? What makes you so sure it's better than the alternatives?

But I will remind you that the G-d of the Jews, the G-d of the Christians, and the G-d of the Muslims are all the same G-d.

We're all sons and daughters of Abraham

"Kevin MacDonald and his 'Culture of Critique.' " --- Thanks for the tip, TW. I'm half way through the online preface, and have discovered nothing so far that doesn't jibe with the historical and evolutionary record. I also read Pinkers' non-scientific critique of "Culture of Critique," which ends with the disclaimer: 'I haven't read the book and run the risk of being unfair in my critique.' [!] (paraphrased) I'm going to read the book... *** While Jews are portrayed as the quintessential victim in Holocaust iconography, the vast majority of non-Jews are portrayed as potential or actual anti-Semites. 'Righteous Gentiles' are acknowledged, but the criteria are strict. They must have risked their lives, and often the lives of the members of their families as well, to save a Jew. (C&C preface) *** *** Jews on Jews: Jews are Great Of the twelve billion people who have graced this earth, fewer than one hundred have earned the title of "Gentile Adored by My Jewish Grandmother." Mark Twain successfully infiltrated the order when he penned Concerning the Jews, an article discussing the intellectual prowess and survival skills of the Jewish people. The membership otherwise consists largely of Europeans who helped Jews during the Holocaust and political leaders who have gone out of their way to make peace with Israel. Three University of Utah anthropologists have done their darndest to reach that rarified group close to my grandmother's heart: Gregory Cochran, Jason Hardy and Henry Harpending collaborated on "The Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence," a paper recently accepted for publication in the Journal of Biosocial Sciences. In the article, they unveil a theory for why Jews have an average IQ that's one standard deviation above the European norm. If there's one thing that Jews love more than gentiles raving about Jews, it's Jews raving about Jews, which is probably why a lecture I attended last week was completely packed with Jewish blue-hairs. Steven Pinker, rock star cognitive scientist, bestselling author, and Yid-to-the-core, was to give his take on the paper, and the exiles from Egypt flocked to the Center for Jewish History on 16th Street for the occasion. Never one to miss a meeting of the Mutual Admiration Society, I flocked, too.... ***

Well. well hiding my comments?
Not a good sign for your side.

'I didn't quite follow that
by sugar and spice and everything nice Sunday, Nov. 12, 2006 at 9:32 PM

But I will remind you that the G-d of the Jews, the G-d of the Christians, and the G-d of the Muslims are all the same G-d.

We're all sons and daughters of Abraham'
-which was not hidden -
-and my reply which was hidden-
' didn't follow that'
by ahhh • Sunday, Nov. 12, 2006 at 10:21 PM

Didn't expect you could. Something about blinders and inability to self examine a dark and ugly blemish on a ideology of of victimhood and innocence. Like a god given 'no fault' racism. Unless the fault is on someone else. A chosen dogma. Comfortable and secure in its absolute denial.
You don't need a god, you need a soul.
-It seems you need a some honesty as well as a soul and the stomach for your racism, Sugar & spice.