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Israel set to attack Iran

by Digery Cohen Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2006 at 11:23 PM
digerycohen@yahoo.co.uk

With 200kg. nuclear warhead.

Israel set to attack...
dolphin-flag.jpg, image/jpeg, 220x275

Israel to attack Iran with 200kg. Nuclear Warhead.

Israeli navy to launch attack.

Israel has to make up for its defeat by Hezbollah.

Israel is now the laughing stock of The Middle East.

It has no deterrent power left and Hezbollah is about to start training and supplying Palestinians on The West Bank and Gaza.

Israel will soon be confined behind the ‘67 lines as required by UN resolution.

Israel has decided that the only way it can restore it’s deterrent is to attack Iran.

In May 2000, Israel secretly carried out its first test launches from two German-built dolphin class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. The missiles launched from vessels off Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean are said to have hit a target at a range of about 1,500 km [about 930 statute miles]. Israel is reported to possess a 200kg nuclear warhead, containing 6kg of plutonium, that could be mounted on cruise missiles.

A small nuke (200 kg.) is to be dropped on facilities at the Esfahan Nuclear Technology Centre (ENTC) These include a Miniaturized Neutron Source Reactor [MNSR] research reactor of Chinese origin with a capacity of 27 kilowatt thermal (kWt). China and Iran signed a nuclear cooperation agreement on 21 January 1990 that reportedly included the construction of a 27 MW plutonium production reactor at Esfahan.

This explosion will be sold as a self made Iranian accident which will allow The US to destroy all the remaining nuclear facilities in Iran for safety purposes.

How mad are Bush and Olmert?

This mad.
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I don't doubt that the Izzie-psycho-stanis are sorely tempted to do this

by TW Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 6:38 AM

...or that they're nuts enough to do it. But I don't think they will for the same reason the US didn't use nukes for global conquest, especially in the late '40s when it still enjoyed perfect nuclear supremacy. They were just as sorely tempted at least twice: to nuke China in order to claim invincibility in the Korean War (it's not 'deterrence' that's so crucial to maintain. That's a given for any country with nukes. What Israel's desperate to preserve is the **illusion** of its invincibility -- "resistance is futile"); the US was sorely tempted in the same way to nuke Hanoi. In fact it DID nuke Hanoi, if you think of it in terms of megatons delivered in one attack. The "Christmas Bombing" did the same thing an H-bomb would have, but for *political* reasons was done with conventional explosives. By this point, though, it was more out of whimpering desperation to force Vietnam's hand in the Paris peace talks. Nixon had already conceded victory to Mao by smoking his cock on worldwide television.

The US never did use its nukes after Japan (when the Japanese and Manhattan Project workers were the only ones who really comprehended it. Everyone else was prevented from doing so by a total news lockdown http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/05/1548255 ). Israel won't use them either for the same reason: any country that does this will commit political suicide, immediately taking Hitler's place as "Great Villain of History." Israel wouldn't "win" this way. It would lose for good

I don't think any country will ever use them in war again. They're actually so mega-horrible that there's no net benefit
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its be threatened, but

by will Iranian nukes be used? Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 7:07 AM

http://www.mosnews.com/money/2006/08/22/russiabushehr.shtml



Russia Enters Final Stage of Bushehr Nuclear Project in Iran
Iranian delegation arrived in Moscow on Tuesday, Aug. 22, for four days of talks as Russia plans to reach a final agreement to launch Iran's first nuclear reactor at Bushehr.

Iranian officials previously said that the talks would focus on a timetable to operate the first unit of the 1,000 kilowatt $1-billion light water facility.

The Iranian delegation will be hosted by Russia's state-owned company Atomstroyexport, which is responsible for building all of Russia's nuclear power plants abroad. Atomstroyexport plans to discuss its contract to build Bushehr's Unit #1.

As part of negotiations process the Iranian delegation will visit and tour the Kalinin nuclear power plant in Tver region in Central Russia.

The Bushehr plant was scheduled for completion by the end of the year but Iran and Atomstroyexport said in July that the launching had been pushed back to the second half of 2007.
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no nukes in Iran

by No nukes in Iran Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 7:12 AM

I'm more worried about the Israel nukes which it has in the hundreds.
Iran has no nukes.
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empty

by Empty Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 8:03 AM

Can you show us a source of your assertion that Iran is 'months away' from NUCLEAR WEAPONS?
The CIA, that muliti billion dollar/year intelligence agency says 9 *years* away with highly controlled technology that it doesn't have?
Oh, that's right, you Zionists are always pointing fingers away from Israeli nuclear weapons.
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And the US nuclear program had no Internation inspection

by OK Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 8:29 AM

whereas the Iranian nuclear program has been given intense inspections.
Conclusion -except for your Zionist lackeys- that Iran is not perusing a weapons program.
When is Israel going to open their nuclear programs and arsenal to inspection?
They wont.
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"iran- months away from nuclear capacity"

by TW Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 8:32 AM

Ah, bullshit. Your co-Izzie-psycho above just supplied an article that states they have yet to even BUILD their their first reactor unit, which will use Russian-supplied enriched uranium. They don't even have their own enrichment facility (required). Then there's setting up a bomb plant. Then there's developing a bomb. Then there's developing a delivery system...

We're talking years.

Spare us your straight-from-the-Jabotinsky-Memorial-Institute-of-Bullshitology-in-Tel-Aviv drivel on this

This is the same song you assholes sang us to get us to fight your enemies the last go-round. Fool me once shame on you... Your contempt for average Americans' intelligence is total, isn't it? Yeah, we're catching on, too.

And then there's your bald implication that they WILL use them. I just got done saying that any government would have to be totally off their rocker to do that, and now here you are playing 'moosh the stupid cow's brain,' telling me they ARE that crazy, and what's more booga-booga!! Hear me loud and clear: I don't fucking believe you. I've caught on to your contempt for my brain. Get used to it.

In this modern world, nukes have only one real purpose, and that's deterrence. I think it's Iran's imminent ability to keep you freaks from ever attacking THEM that's the real bug up your ass.
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Hey Wockswey

by TW Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 8:36 AM

Your either shilling for them or your a corn-fed fucking moron. There are no other possibilities. Go away
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"has Israel ever threatened to use theirs?"

by since you asked . . . Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 8:42 AM

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_07/004388.php#220612

Obviously, unofficial threats can be more explicit and more threatening than those issued by politicians -- especially those below which were published in credible publications like the Los Angeles Times or WorldNetDaily, and even those published by extremists like those at Masada2000.Org. (And such extremists are very powerful in Israel's political system.) Those issuing these threats obviously feel no fear of criticism or ostracism by either the Jewish or gentile communities, something which makes them more frightening.

In April 2002 Jewish academic David Perlmutter in the Los Angeles Times inferred Israel under some circumstances would launch revenge attacks against targets worldwide: "Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow--it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Sampson in Gaza? With an H-bomb? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. Or invite all those tut-tutting European statesmen and peace activists to join us in the ovens?

"For the first time in history, a people facing extermination while the world either cackles or looks away--unlike the Armenians, Tibetans, World War II European Jews or Rwandans--have the power to destroy the world. The ultimate justice?"

(snip)

* * * * *

See also:
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sounds to me

by Sure Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 8:44 AM

"a source at the UN International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) told AKI, speaking on condition of anonymity. "


Now that's what I call a reliable testimony.

And, could we all have some independent source conformation?
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666 BOLTON THE BUSH OIL WARLOCK on Arming IDF IAF SS NAZIS / Likud Brownshirts in IsraOil

by 666 BOLTON THE BUSH OIL WARLOCK Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 8:53 AM

666 BOLTON THE BUSH OIL WARLOCK : "Sorry to Oil the Arming of IDF IAF SS NAZIS / LIKUD BROWNSHIRTS / IRGUN ZVAI LEUMI TERRORIST with Nuclear Weapons and WMD's, the Phoney UN Resolutions, the Mohammed Cartoons, and the Comming War in Iran but Oil comes First. FILL HER UP ?????????"
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Yup, Wockswey's a shill

by TW Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 9:23 AM

Wockswey: "...then you probably think the UN inspectors are all 'zionists' too,dont you?"

No, I just think that like all right-wing fuckwads you cherry pick your "journalism," that's all. Has anybody ever so much as heard of ADNKronos International? It's a very mysterious operation. It sure looks like a pro-Israel bullshit sheet when you google it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=%22adnkronos+international%22&spell=1

maybe it's Berlusconi's way of giving Bush an oral high colonic

How on earth did you find this thing, Wockswey? Through Front Page Mag? You're looking more suspicious than ever now. How much are they paying you?
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Yup, Wockswey's a shill

by TW Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 9:23 AM

Wockswey: "...then you probably think the UN inspectors are all 'zionists' too,dont you?"

No, I just think that like all right-wing fuckwads you cherry pick your "journalism," that's all. Has anybody ever so much as heard of ADNKronos International? It's a very mysterious operation. It sure looks like a pro-Israel bullshit sheet when you google it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=%22adnkronos+international%22&spell=1

maybe it's Berlusconi's way of giving Bush an oral high colonic

How on earth did you find this thing, Wockswey? Through Front Page Mag? You're looking more suspicious than ever now. How much are they paying you?
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floating in deep space somewhere

by how's this? Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 9:49 AM

for a 'source'>
"especially those below which were published in credible publications like the Los Angeles Times or WorldNetDail"
wow, that confirms [or denies] everything you said.
Excellent journalism...
not
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incomprehensible Wednesday

by not... Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 10:07 AM

you not understand even simple english?
me talk even more simple for you.
then you understand?
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here goes

by Me Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 10:12 AM

You give us URL ?
for:
"especially those below which were published in credible publications like the Los Angeles Times or WorldNetDail"

Okay?
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Try and keep up here

by its from Nessies post on this page Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 10:18 AM

"has Israel ever threatened to use theirs?"
by since you asked . . . Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2006 at 11:42 AM

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_07/004388.php#220612

Obviously, unofficial threats can be more explicit and more threatening than those issued by politicians -- especially those below which were published in credible publications like the Los Angeles Times or WorldNetDaily, and even those published by extremists like those at Masada2000.Org.
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"credible" does not mean "true"

by look it up Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 12:14 PM

It means "capable of being believed."

The Washington Monthly, the LA Times and, alas even, WorldNetDaily, are not only capable of believed, but actually are believed, by far more people than not. This doesn't make everything, or even anything, they say be true. Only consistence with the empirical data can do that. But it does, by definition, make them credible. Proof lies in the existence of the belief itself, not in the truth of what is being believed. That "truth" and "credibility" are not synonyms, is recognized by far too many people. It causes them to judge the relative likelihood of any particular thing they hear being true, not on it's consistence with facts on the ground, but on it's source. This is bunk logic.

The Washington Monthly, the LA Times and WorldNetDaily are, though not always truthful, credibility to much of the Zionist, or any, propaganda mill's target audience, i.e. people too stupid to check the facts before they believe what they're told.

This credibility makes all three near to ideal places to make such threats as recounted above under the cover of deniable plausibility. This is SOP, and not just for the Zionist propaganda mill. America's own propaganda mill makes prodigious use of what legendary Cold War psy-warrior Frank Wisner used to call "The Mighty Wurlitzer". Why? Because it is tremendously effective.

The Zionist entity is thus able to have their threats believed, without ever having to make having made them be an official act. The threats aren't ex cathedra. On the "official" level, they can be denied, if necessary. Ergo, the Zionist entity is able to maintain, on the "official" level at least, the absurd fiction that it possesses no nuclear arms. For a variety of reasons, this is distinctly advantageous. All in all, this is a clever strategy. It's success, however, is predicated on the rest of the world, for its own various reasons, playing along with the fiction. Those days are numbered.
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This one's for you, TW

by concerned citizen Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 12:32 PM

Remember this when traveling this summer.


August 23, 2006 (CHICAGO) - Cook County prosecutors say a 29-year-old man traveling with his mother desperately didn't want her to know he'd packed a sexual aid for their trip to Turkey.

So he told security it was a bomb, officials said.
Madin Azad Amin was stopped by officials on Aug. 16 after guards found an object in his baggage that resembled a grenade, prosecutors said.

When officers asked him to identify it, Amin said it was a bomb, said Cook County Assistant State's Attorney Lorraine Scaduto.

He later told officials he'd lied about the item because his mother was nearby and he didn't want her to hear that it was part of a penis pump, Scaduto said.

He's been charged with felony disorderly conduct, said Andrew Conklin, a spokesman with the Cook County state's attorney's office.

Amin faces up to three years in prison if convicted.






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Racism, pro-israel, homophobia

by Reader Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 3:43 PM

I think any intelligent reader can see all they need to by looking at this (the posts where you call Mexicans "beaners"): and your "faggot" post. I don't have to top it off by hunting down your "nigger" post. You are a racist and a homophobe.
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Diatribes of hate by right wing racist LL

by Danus Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 3:49 PM

Here's a choice recent meltdown:
Jejn
by Lord Locksley Sunday, Aug. 20, 2006 at 7:10 PM

I have no intention of posting my personal info for some fanatic Jew hating faggot who for all I know just wants to engage in personal harassment......so I guess you and your fellow generic faceless nameless lefties will have to be content with watching little omar refuse to defend his mother's dirty pussy,. his two bit Arabian moon 'god' and that blood thirsty pedophile he calls his 'prophet'........same parameters......Marquess of Queesnbury rules....16 oz gloves

Here's another anti-Islam diatribe:
..........but I think little omar's preoccupation with sex comes from the way women are treated in his culture.....as little better than cattle who have few if any rights under Sharia law.....so he lives in denial about the fact that his so-called 'prophet' was a pedophile and he compensates for that horrific fact by calling everyone else's sexuality in question when that has nothing to do with the topic at hand......hoping he can goad others into some sort of little confrontation on his terms......well he got what he wanted this time.... now everyone on HIMC will be aware of the salient fact that he cant even defend the religion of his ancestors.......just another lapsed Muslim who has become enamored of weatern style life and forgets that his beloved Islam has been essentially Christianity's bitch for the last 500 years or so
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Diatribes of hate by right wing racist LL

by Danus Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 3:49 PM

Here's a choice recent meltdown:
Jejn
by Lord Locksley Sunday, Aug. 20, 2006 at 7:10 PM

I have no intention of posting my personal info for some fanatic Jew hating faggot who for all I know just wants to engage in personal harassment......so I guess you and your fellow generic faceless nameless lefties will have to be content with watching little omar refuse to defend his mother's dirty pussy,. his two bit Arabian moon 'god' and that blood thirsty pedophile he calls his 'prophet'........same parameters......Marquess of Queesnbury rules....16 oz gloves

Here's another anti-Islam diatribe:
..........but I think little omar's preoccupation with sex comes from the way women are treated in his culture.....as little better than cattle who have few if any rights under Sharia law.....so he lives in denial about the fact that his so-called 'prophet' was a pedophile and he compensates for that horrific fact by calling everyone else's sexuality in question when that has nothing to do with the topic at hand......hoping he can goad others into some sort of little confrontation on his terms......well he got what he wanted this time.... now everyone on HIMC will be aware of the salient fact that he cant even defend the religion of his ancestors.......just another lapsed Muslim who has become enamored of weatern style life and forgets that his beloved Islam has been essentially Christianity's bitch for the last 500 years or so
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I am shocked, my liege

by Tia Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 4:53 PM

Shocking. Simply shocking. The way to counter hate is with information, or with mockery, sarcasim or irony.... Hate is never the proper response to hate!

I am disappointed, my liege.
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excuse me

by Sheepdog Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 5:08 PM

what?
'Israel having its troops kidnapped'
They were captured in a fire fight in L:ebanon.
Sneaking in to do mischief.
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the Geneva Convention?

by Sheepdog Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 5:18 PM

classic zionist hypocrisy. When is Israel going to observe 'the Geneva Convention'?
About as soon as their sponsor, the U.S. government.
Again... kidnapped? Not hardly.
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talk to your 'leaders'

by Sheepdog Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 5:55 PM

Heck I don't know if the captured POWs from Israel are even alive.
They could have been home now if Israel would have released all the minors in Israeli custody, being deprived of their human rights.
But as we all know, Israel can do no wrong. Only non Israelis should be held to international standards and human rights.
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'unlawful combatants'.

by Sheepdog Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 6:29 PM

so you individuals were the ones who dreamed up this term.

Live with it now and quit wanking about it.
The shoe is on the other foot.
Israel should observe the GC before demanding it from their victims.
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Wrong again, Wock-O

by TW Thursday, Aug. 24, 2006 at 7:50 PM

"but of course [TW's] own viciious diatribes agains anyone who disagrees with him arent really 'hate' are they?..."

Oh yeah they are. Rest assured Locksley, I hate your fucking guts. You represent the loathesome cutting edge of a phenomenon that's been taking shape for six decades: a thick slice of the American middle class that's become lying criminal malicious spoiled adult infants / grotesque cowards who WILL. NOT. SEE. that their lives have become obscene displays of decadent excess; that in order for so many of you to have so much, 50 times your number around the world have been robbed blind at birth, doomed to a life that makes death seem enviable; that this GIGANTIC ATROCITY perpetrated by so many Marie Antoinettes and Viscomtes de Valmonts WILL. BE. AVENGED; that the hatred of yourselves now taking shape among the great towering force that is the world's cheated billions, this is only the Justice you so richly deserve just *beginning* to awaken.

This is what Ward Churchill meant by 'Little Eichmanns.' He was right. History is going to bear him out.

Degenerates like you are destroying EVERYTHING that was ever truly admirable and redeeming about this country, Locksley. The way Bush is overtly throwing all such legacies on a bonfire of berserk greed, this is just an avatar for all of you transacting your collective will. You assholes have cheated me -- cheated ALL decent Americans -- of the experience of finding our society whole and wholesome and thus worthy of the full investment of our hearts, and for this I hate all your fucking guts with a purple passion! You are disgusting abominations, petulant screaming infants kicking in bassinets while your Dominican nannies fret over that which can never be placated: your unresolvable spoiled-baby greed

*YOU* are why empires *always* fall

See, Wockswey, I don't buy into the cheesy knee-jerk pop morality of this incomparably brainwashed society, one canned precept of which is that hatred is by default just evil, insane, and unconditionally wrong. I think despicable selfish trash like you *should* be despised. I think it's completely cool to want to KILL YOU, and that every last one of history's finest hours has consisted of bloodbaths for people like yourself. I think these impulses to hate and kill your kind are the essential social manifestations of Justice Itself. If us decent folk could just succeed in ridding the planet of its infestation of Robbins Mitchells, we just might experience utopia!
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World Net Daily is a credible source

by according to Nessie! Sunday, Sep. 03, 2006 at 11:48 AM

"...especially those below which were published in credible publications like the Los Angeles Times or WorldNetDaily"


Oh, Nessie- you think World Net is credible? I'm going to quote you on that- you know I will. But I'll give you 5 minutes to weasel out first.

BTW, sweetheart, letters to the editor, even in "credible" sources, or quotes from people on the street, even in "credible" sources are not official policy statements. Nobody but you thinks so.
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Fox news is a credible source

by according to Tia Sunday, Sep. 03, 2006 at 12:48 PM

But we know that zionist propagandists will change their stripes, lie, distort and ally themselves with anyone who shares their pro-israel cause. It trumps all other values and principles they may purport to have.
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No source is completely accurate

by Becky Johnson Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 6:03 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

While some sources have a better track record than others, no source is infallible. All news sources contain errors, innaccuracies, and bias.

Some are open about their biases while others are more concealed.

therefore, the educated person needs to read news sources on all sides and blend the information together to try to get an accurate idea of the situation.

While FOX news painfully defends President George W. Bush endlessly, they don't publish misinformation as a matter of course. Many FOX reporters trumpeted the WMD's fraud prior to the Bush invasion of Iraq. These proved to be false. But even now, FOX admits those reports were false.

The BBC, which is funded by British taxpayers, is profoundly anti-Israel.

The New York Times has published many articles of questionable accuracy---including blaming Israel in afront page article on June 9th for killing a family of seven on a Gaza beach. This story ended up not being true.

What's a reader to do???

Read on all sides, read between the lines, and follow your own conscience and common sense.

Understand the individual biases of various sources and take them into account. But even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Truth can be found in even the most extreme publications.

And no source---not even Amy Goodman---is infallible.
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Information should be served buffet style

by not spoon fed Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 6:45 AM

"Truth can be found in even the most extreme publications"

"Read on all sides, read between the lines, and follow your own conscience and common sense. "

Bravo, Becky. And this is precisely why the concept of Indymedia and open publishing has so much potential in a democractic society.
An article is posted. Comments are posted in reply. A reader can follow sides of the discussion and form their own opinion.
Thesis- antithesis- synthesis.

The system fails, of course, when one side of the discussion is edited out. It borders on arrogence- it assumes the readership is unable or unwilling to decide on their own.

I've said it before- information is best served buffet style- you look at all the offerings, maybe sample a bit of everything, and then you chose the most appealling.
I am not interested in being spoon fed fillet of facts, pureed to remove offending chunks. I'm beyond that, thank you.

Tia

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there's information and discussion

by And Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 7:26 AM

And there's endless, mindless repetition of proven absurdities, which rely on the question as to whether the new reader will buy it. Then there is the forgeries, spam huge posts and annoying jibberish ect.
Yeah, editing sucks. For you,
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Indeed, Information is important

by Information is important Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 7:47 AM

Indeed, Information is important, and should be served "buffet style". In a "buffet", you have a choice and you go to the dish to eat what you want. If we want right wing pro-israel propaganda, we go to mainstream newsites, Fox, JPOST, etc. When we want an alternative "dish" we go to indymedia sites...
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Debunking myths

by Fanatasy is not reality, Tia Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 7:51 AM

Your boy, Scapegoated/autoblocked/etc. posted in arabic all day and night...
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Project Mockingbecky

by 'Tia has better things to do' Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 8:02 AM

how nice, still running interference at the front.
we should start by slice and dice w/ garnish.

ahem:

"No source is completely accurate ( don't get me started )
by Becky Johnson Sunday, Sep. 03, 2006 at 9:03 AM
Santa Cruz, CA.

While some sources have a better track record than others, no source is infallible. All news sources contain errors, innaccuracies, and bias.
( which is why you post most of your 'material' from israeli right wing lunatic sources as a matter of habit. )

Some are open about their biases while others are more concealed. ( which is why it's so easy to strip away the bias when it is so evident, a fact you seem to overlook when ever you post from the afore mentioned favored reference sites )

therefore, the educated person ( or perhaps thoroughly indoctrinated ) needs to read news sources on all sides and blend the information together to try to get an accurate ( meaning, of course, cherry picking from the twice mentioned previously favored sources to filter out all contention ) ) idea of the situation.

While FOX ( and the rest of the same ownership cartel ) news painfully defends President George W. Bush endlessly, they don't publish misinformation ( here we voyage far into the la la land of Peter Pan, because you CAN fly ) as a matter of course. Many FOX reporters trumpeted the WMD's fraud prior to the Bush invasion of Iraq. These proved to be false. But even ( because they said ' get over it' or 'move on' or 'this is history' or... etc. etc .etc... ) now, FOX admits those reports were false. ( in the dead of night quietly and briefly as I can really see Fox bashing its own MK Ultraesque 'news' programming.

The BBC, which is funded by British taxpayers, is profoundly anti-Israel. ( that's democracy for you Ms. BJ, so deal w/ it tell your zionazi enablers to cut all the sh*t out to resolve PR issues.)

The New York Times has published many ( continuously, you mean, but even they must do *some* reporting) articles of questionable accuracy---including blaming ( meaning reporting on the ground reports ) Israel in afront page article on June 9th for killing a family of seven on a Gaza beach. This story ended up not being true. ( how did they not die after being shelled by a PT boat? )

(Continue.)

What's a reader to do??? ( reach for the anti -gag medication, if you ask me )

Read on all sides, read between the lines, and follow your own conscience and common sense. ( "and let you conscience be your guide" ...la la - note the previous quotation was was from a Disney Production and all rights being waived hereby releases the poster from all damages )

Understand the individual biases of various sources and take them into account. But even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Truth can be found in even the most extreme publications. ( grafting monsterisms doesn't provide proper tone, IMOHO)

And no source---not even Amy Goodman---is infallible" ( thanks for the gifts of wisdom, Ms. BJ.
As always I thank you.)
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He started this arabic thing out of the clear blue

by That's simply not true, Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 8:15 AM

It's just like the rabid defenders of Israel always do---it's always "retaliation", right?
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to Tia

by Much better things to do Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 8:20 AM

I was being very considerate except for once or twice for spice.
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You defend this nut

by Simply not true Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 8:21 AM

Check out this link, the arabic spam by your boy was started totally by him (not in 'retaliation').
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Trolling spamfests

by Forgot the link, here it is Monday, Sep. 04, 2006 at 8:23 AM

http://la.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=176354#176616
And this is just one of his lenghty spamfests on one thread.
This guy spends more time on IMC's than all of us put together---he must sit at his PC from morning to night.
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Zionist War Crimes

by Not a Dhimmi No More! Wednesday, Sep. 06, 2006 at 4:50 PM

The First Post-Zionist War
Roni Ben Efrat, Challenge magazine, 4 September 2006

Three weeks after the cease-fire, the political situation in Israel may be described as one of imminent collapse. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz, and Army Chief of Staff Dan Halutz have fallen to the depths in public opinion. A full 63% of the people think Olmert ought to resign; 74% want Peretz's head, 54% Halutz's.

Israelis live today with a sense of failure. They search for the source of the "lapse" (mekhdal) - a term much used to describe the disaster of October 1973 (the "Yom Kippur War"). A protest movement of reservists has arisen, divided between those who demand a State Commission of Inquiry and those who call for the resignation of the "trio": Olmert, Peretz, Halutz. The movement is not, at this stage, political. It may easily fall into the hands of the Right, or it may disappear.

Amid the confusion, it is well to check where the real lapse lay.

Some commentators, here and abroad, have maintained that the war was planned. Perhaps they mean that Israel had a contingency plan for a future war with Hezbollah. That is likely. But the war began as a response to a provocation, and it did not proceed in the manner of a calculated initiative. Israel reasoned that Hassan Nasrallah, leader of Hezbollah, had broken the rules, and it wanted to exploit his mistake in order to impose new ones. If the Lebanese army and international forces do indeed take control of southern Lebanon, as ordained by Security Council Resolution 1701, then it can claim to have achieved this goal.

Nasrallah saw himself as the new Saladin. He had often boasted to the Arab states that they don't understand Israel - that they fear it needlessly, because the Israel of today is not that of forty years ago. As he put it in a long interview for Lebanese TV on August 27, neither he nor his advisers ever imagined that the July 12 action would lead to war. Yet once war began, he again broke the rules by unleashing some 4000 rockets.

Nasrallah made military decisions as if he were a state, but he is not. He stored weapons in Lebanon, then embroiled it in war, without authorization by the Lebanese people and without accountability to anyone. (No one calls on him to resign.) He exploited the prerogatives of statehood while avoiding its responsibilities. As guerrillas, he and his colleagues hid from Israel. But heads of state like Bashar Assad or Fuad Siniora do not have the luxury of hiding: they must answer to the world for their countries' actions. By hijacking Lebanon, Nasrallah managed to rouse the ire of both the Arab leaders and the West.

Hezbollah also compromised its suppliers. Every rocket that was launched, especially those that struck deep into Israel, cast a shadow toward Iran and Syria. What responsible nation gives high-grade weaponry to an organization that is not a nation and that is accountable to no one? Consider Iran, in particular. The US is seeking to curb its nuclear ambitions by imposing sanctions through the UN, and here Iran is caught supplying weapons to Hezbollah! The Americans can now ask in the Security Council: How can a nation that supplies guerrillas be permitted to make the Bomb? Danny Rubenstein (Haaretz August 31) points out that Iran also financed Hezbollah's huge underground bunker complex in southern Lebanon. All this expenditure was not undertaken for the sake of capturing two soldiers. He speculates that it was part of an overall plan for reprisal against Israel, in case the US were to attack Iran. By using these resources prematurely, Nasrallah exposed and compromised the Iranian strategy.

Nasrallah has managed to shape, for the first time, an Israeli-American-Arab-European front. We note another "first," by the way: Israel has invited Europe to take part in implementing the cease-fire agreement. Until now it had confined itself to bilateral relations with the US. The change is further evidence, if any were needed, of the decline in American influence.

If there is a State Commission of Inquiry, it will quickly discover that the essential problem was not military. The army never planned to defeat Hezbollah on the battlefield. In Yediot Aharonot (August 25, 2006), pundits Nahum Barnea and Shimon Schiffer invented a defense that Chief of Staff Halutz could reasonably make before the Commission. In the spirit of Clausewitz ("War is the continuation of politics by other means"), their Halutz explains that the army was merely a means for getting the international community to establish a new order in Lebanon. They have him say, for example: "I figured that we had to hit the Lebanese infrastructure. If two big power stations went up in smoke, the French would hasten to Beirut. The international community would quickly act."

Barnea and Schiffer present their Halutz as cool, calm and careful about definition of goals: "I objected to defining our goal as the return of the kidnapped soldiers. One must not set a goal one cannot achieve. Instead, we defined the objective as the creation of conditions for return of the soldiers. We spoke of weakening Hezbollah, not eliminating it, not disbanding it, not stamping it out. These words were used by government ministers, not by the army."

Halutz - the real one now - believed air power would suffice to accomplish these vague and limited goals. There was no intention of conquering Lebanon. The tardy use of ground forces, among which most of the army's losses occurred, was merely intended as a catalyst to spur the international community into doing what it in fact did.

If all this is so, there was no "big failure." Why then is the country under a cloud?

Because there was a big failure. Israel's deep weakness was exposed. A country that has aroused great hatred among its neighbors for decades can hardly afford, it thinks, to have its weakness exposed. It needs "power of deterrence." But deterrence requires more than perceptible destructive force; it also requires perceptible willingness to use it. Israel proved itself willing to use part of its destructive force: it bombed like mad. As the weeks went on, however, and the rockets kept falling on Galilee, there was no perceptible effect on Hezbollah's ability to disrupt Israeli life. Clearly air power would not suffice.

The more Israel stuck to the air, the more evident was its weakness. Helicopters and jets could kill while keeping above harm's way, but forces on the ground would be another story. With this appeared the great soft underbelly of Israel's army: its fear of battlefield losses. Ground forces, this vital part of its destructive force, it was not willing to use. And when finally it made a show of use, as a ploy, in a manner ill planned and worse executed, the Emperor turned out to be scantily dressed indeed.

No wonder, then, that Israelis are under a cloud. In their reluctance to risk death, they proved incapable of stopping a small guerrilla organization that instills the virtues of martyrdom. In this dangerous neighborhood, that does not look good.

The reluctance to risk death derives from an irreversible breakdown in the Israeli Jewish collective. Into this the Commission will not inquire. To it we now turn.

ISRAELI society has undergone a major change in certain key values. It has moved from Zionism to what is called post-Zionism. The establishment of a Jewish state was formerly the first priority. That is, the Jewish collective came first. This is no longer the case. Today, individual self-realization is first.

One can trace the breakdown of the collective, in part, to the poisonous victory of 1967, which eventually polarized the society. But we would also stress the Economic Stabilization Plan of 1985. Before this Israel had been, for Jews at least, a more or less egalitarian state. In the 1950's, the uppermost fifth earned three times more than the lowermost. Today, as a result of measures adopted in the Plan, the uppermost fifth earns 21 times more. Where gaps are so big, one cannot expect solidarity.

Throughout the economy, publicly owned companies were sold to private investors (often for much less than their worth). Organized labor was washed overboard by personal contracts, personnel companies and migrant workers. Protective tariffs were reduced or eliminated. Labor-intensive industries were ushered out to the third world, while high-tech was ushered in. Israel, in short, was chained to the global economy. (For more on this topic, see Challenge 98, "The Breaking of Organized Labor in Israel.")

The change is epitomized in the kibbutz as an institution. Strictly speaking, hardly any kibbutzim remain. Most have been privatized. People earn different salaries in various enterprises carved out of the original kibbutz. A kibbutz high-school teacher, Rina Barkai, sees no decline among kibbutzniks in willingness to serve, but notes a drop in the willingness to take on command roles and enter the career army. "The reason is the feeling that a person's self-actualization does not have to take place within military service." (In Ya'ir Sheleg, "The Bereavement Map has Changed," Haaretz August 27, 2006.)

The change of direction was not publicized. In 1985, no leader stood up and announced, "Friends, until now the principles that guided us were the sanctity of the army and social solidarity. You were first a soldier and then a citizen. As of today, you are first a citizen and afterwards a soldier." But this change is behind the fact that Israel has lost its battlefield deterrence.

It is also why the decision to call up the reserves took so long. When many reservists, officers and plain soldiers alike, are self-realizing at the rate of 15,000 NIS monthly (ca. $3500), or even more, the state cannot afford to compensate them for time spent in the army. Moreover, the motivation to leave their lucrative work for the battlefield is minimal. Today, when an Israeli youth seeks employment in a commercial company and the interviewer asks if he's in the reserves, he finds himself in the awkward position of a mother asked if she has children to care for: a positive reply may cost him the job.

There is also much talk about the scarcity of Tel Avivians among the troops in Lebanon. Tel Aviv is known as a "bubble," supposedly oblivious to the "hard realities" faced by the rest of Israel. According to Dr. Yagil Levy, an expert on the country's "map" of bereavement, Tel Aviv merely symbolizes the processes that mainstream Israeli society is undergoing. In the first Lebanon War (1982), half the fatalities were secular Ashkenazis (Jews of European descent). In this new war their proportion has dwindled to a quarter, while that of Mizrahis (Jews of Middle Eastern and African descent), Soviet immigrants and Ethiopian immigrants has risen. (In Sheleg, op. cit., Haaretz August 27.)

People have other things to do than create a state. If after fifty years they still have to expend their lives in doing so, with no end in sight, they may begin to wonder - with Meron Benvenisti in this issue - whether the enterprise is worth it.

War exposes a society's character, and this society has now been exposed in its nakedness. There was the government's failure to take care of its citizens in the north (not a little reminiscent of the US government's failure during Hurricane Katrina). Should we have been surprised? If Israel deserts its poor during peacetime, will it not do the same in war? The well-to-do northerners fled. The poor awaited the rockets in ill-equipped shelters, when they had them. Most of the "rescue forces" were sent by philanthropists, who financed part of the evacuation to hotels and campgrounds in securer places. Any illusion that the state would care for the weak went up with the smoke of the Katyushas.

We may locate the nub of the lapse on the occasion, soon after March elections, when Peretz asked Olmert for the Finance Ministry. Olmert replied, "I'll give you Defense." Why? Because in the Israel of 2006, the Finance Ministry is more important. Almost every IDF general or Shin Bet officer is connected to some capitalist who, after the officer has doffed his uniform, will appoint him as a CEO. It was no great shock to learn, therefore, that on July 12, in the fateful hours between the capture of the soldiers and the decision to bomb Beirut, Army Chief Dan Halutz found time to sell investments.

The great lapse, then, is a function of the fact that Israel is caught between two worlds. Still guided by the Zionist model, it refuses to resolve the conflicts with its neighbors. But guided by post-Zionism, it refuses to maintain the welfare state, which aimed for the kind of Jewish solidarity that was needed to wage those conflicts.

The wishful thinking here during recent years has been that the era of warfare is over and that now we can indulge in unilateral solutions: the withdrawal from Lebanon (2000), the disengagement from Gaza (2005), and the "convergence" or "realignment" that did not and will not take place in the West Bank in 2006. But unilateralism labors beneath the false assumption that the active side can live in affluence while the passive sinks into poverty. A real Investigative Commission should ask why the State of Israel, and the West in general, encourages the Arab world to remain economically backward. Why do they cheer for the dictators of Egypt and Saudi Arabia? And for the moguls of Lebanon, including Fuad Siniora? These corrupt regimes, by cultivating gaps, create a hothouse for groups such as Hezbollah. Even if the Lebanese army and the international forces manage to restrain the latter, the problems that nourish it will remain.

If there's a single ray of light from this war, it is that it has sharpened the alternatives before which Israel stands. Unilateral solutions, based on military superiority, are no longer viable. In the end, the country will have to decide on a direction. A peace treaty with Syria and Lebanon will not solve the conflict at its root. The question of questions, on which Israel has stumbled time and again, remains that of the Palestinians. Nor is this just a matter of occupied territory. It is a matter of long-term economic occupation and the effects thereof. The per capita GDP in Israel today is $24,600. In the West Bank it is $1000, in Gaza $600.

In Egypt it is $3900, in Jordan $4700. These countries are nominally at peace with Israel, but their populations have become increasingly hostile to it and the West. A lasting solution can hardly be expected from within the Middle East, which swings between corrupt dictators and religious fundamentalism. As long as the gaps remain so large, no peace can hold. A solution depends on the demise of the global system that maintains these gaps and its replacement by a system that can vanquish them.


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you are correct

by no kidding, there, chum Wednesday, Sep. 06, 2006 at 6:35 PM

>What responsible nation gives high-grade weaponry to an organization that is not a nation and that is accountable to no one?<
This would support the thesis that the United States Tax payer should insist on a halt to all aid to Israel.
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