Los Angeles, March 4, 2006--In the only incident of the day, one well-known minutewoman leader finally got out of her cohort's vehicle when a day labor supporter blocked her videotaping from inside the vehicle. She shouted at the young man, then slapped and kicked him. She jumped back into the vehicle, and the pair drove off. For the rest of the morning, the minutemen stayed in their cars and trucks.

After several weekends of confrontations with pro-migrant supporters culminating in a boisterous standoff last weekend, the minutemen today steadfastly refused to engage either the supporters or the day laborers in Lake Forest.

Last weekend, Lake Forest day laborers had organized their friends and families to join their regular defenders against the minutemen. As evidenced by the minutemen's reluctance to get out of their vehicles this morning, last week's combined group had convinced the minutemen to keep their distance.

Robin Hvidston and Vince Estrada, key Orange County minuteman organizers, remained in their car in a driveway across from the day laborers on Jeronimo Road, apparently unwilling to face off against the thirty or so laborers and a handful of anti-minutemen protestors. They drove off by 9:30, apparently for lack of support.

For the rest of the morning, the anti-minutemen protestors amused themselves with spotting cruising minutemen, some identifiable and some unknown.

One minutemen stopped at the curb, rolling down his window to holler insults at the labor supporters. He was greeted with groups at both doors of his truck, ready to argue with him. After a few minutes of bickering, the minuteman quickly drove off when three day laborers approached.

Today's pro-migrant supporters kept their signs and bullhorns mostly tucked away. Numerous laborers were hired during the course of the morning.

Minutemen, dumped by San Juan Capistrano, turn to Lake Forest

Media sources are reporting that Jim Gilchrist's claim to his supporters of an invitation to the San Juan Capistrano Swallow's Day Parade was premature. After the minutemen were rejected from the Laguna Beach Patriots Day Parade, Gilchrist announced his organization had received an invitation from a member of the parade planning group in San Juan Capistrano. However, the OC Register and the LA Times now say that Gilchrist had merely applied, and that his application was rejected for participation in that parade, too. San Juan Capistrano parade organizers cited the "controversial, political message" of the minutemen as being "not consistent with the spirit of the community." Unlike his response to Laguna Beach, Gilchrist has said he will not sue the San Juan Capistrano Fiesta Association for participation.

Gilchrist added that he may apply to participate in the Fourth of July parade in Lake Forest.

The dateline on this shoudl read "Lake Forest," not "Los Angeles."

That's okay, we can say the article was typed up in Los Angeles ;-)

I wish I arrived early enough to video tape the slapping and driving off incident.

I did however get footage of another Minuteman who drove by and got really profane at the day labor supporter. It didn't seem like the supporter's day at all, but he was really in good spirits. It takes more than a slap and an F word to get to him.

Really Minutemen and SOS, if you've had enough from the opposing protest 8 days ago in Lake Forest, we understand. Take a break and let the day labor workers get work. No problem.

It was decided to stand down and let the DLs and Goons, crowd the streets. Ya gotta admit, without us, calling for a rally, you wouldn't have been there.

A few of our people did go there to catch any who failed to get the word, so they could be sent home.

Not scared, we just had more important things to do, family, fun, chores, and errands to run.

I hope you'll understand, and accept my apology, for not being there.

:)

BR

Hey the important thing is the day labor workers got work. And when I arrived, there was only 5 others. It's okay, we didn't mind. We had a chat about stuff.

As usual, lies and omissions are the order of the day for Les- LIE.

Omission : Naui, the weido, passive-aggressive basket case was threatening, and got slapped down. Then he spits all over a woman. Nice touch.

Lie : It was Naui that got slapped, not a minuteperson.

Better luck next time that they MM actually call an action. This was just people coming by to see what was up and like BR said, make sure no one was left uninformed.

PS. Puke on you Cliff May. "let them work", eh ? May YOUR job be next, elitist.

Watch out for illegal alien drivers.

My job? Anyone is welcome to come with for Apple One. They need more people. We need more labor. Have a nice day.

Well, you seem to get everything else wrong, so I guess you getting the city wrong is not out of the norm for you!!!!


DOOOOHHHHH!!!

I see Debbie's been bragging about her assault, since no one over here mentioned who she hit and kicked.

I'll bet $5 if I slapped and kicked a minuteman, I'd be spending some time in jail and they'd all be celebrating. So don't talk to me about who can take it, and who would go running to the cops for protection.

The statement below has several errors:

"Los Angeles, March 4, 2006--In the only incident of the day, one well-known minutewoman leader finally got out of her cohort's vehicle when a day labor supporter blocked her videotaping from inside the vehicle. She shouted at the young man, then slapped and kicked him. She jumped back into the vehicle, and the pair drove off. For the rest of the morning, the minutemen stayed in their cars and trucks."

As the author stated, she meant Lake Forest, but that is not the only error. If she is writing about the Lake Forest slapping incident, the woman did not get out of the car and slap the protester. Instead, she slapped him in the face from inside of her pick-up truck after he had blocked her view of day laborers, which he had every right to do as far as I'm concerned, although not from so close. But the woman did not get out of the truck and kick him and, contrary to what was said by another person, I did not see him spit on her, nor do I recall her reacting as if she had been spit on.

This was just another clownish side show and very unimportant in the larger scheme of things. What was more notable is that the Minutmen could not pull off a decent sized action anywhere in Orange County that day, apparently because they are a few short of the 240 million supporters that leader Jim Gilchrist claims they have.

John Earl

John Earl

yeah that's a BIG BIG lie, tax data and other documents show the numbers are vastly inflated and that most of the money comes from a half dozen wealthy sources - that they are nothing but puppets and fools serving the wishes of said "investors"

I think that error was my fault. I thought Debbie was on foot when she slapped Naui, so I said that to Leslie. Sorry 'bout that.

As for 240 million supporters, ha yeah right. Do that many people even know who Jim Gilchrist is, let alone decidedly support him?

I'm not sure if he has a habit of trying to think of something powerful to say or what. But he also got his numbers wrong at a Lake Forest city council meeting.

You weren't my only source. I arrived shortly after the incident and was told the same thing--about Debbie being out of the car and kicking--by more than one person, all witnesses.

But more importantly, the minutemen here are trying to turn Debbie's attack into acceptable behavior. Thus far, our day labor stand-offs have been fairly violence-free, and the police have handled whatever physical assault has occurred. Now, it seems, the Minutemen/SOSers want to defend the assault and lay the blame and shame on the person who was attacked. These are new rules, not particularly honorable ones, and not, as far as I know, in the regulation minuteman playbook. Nevertheless, I'm taking note that the anti-migrant forces are now supporting assaulting their adversaries.

They must be getting frustrated . . .

They're violating their own Minuteman SOP(Standard Operating Procedure) big time. I mean really big time. I'd like to see what Jim Gilchrist has to say about this. About the 1inch incident, Debbie's attack, BR yelling at people, things like that. Now if only we could get the press and media to do that. They're probably not that interested in the MM SOP as it pertains to Lake Forest.

Debbie was assaulted. Naui spit in her face.She decked him in self defence. Don't you get tired of being wrong every time?

Love it, good job, everyone. Every time racist scumbags show their faced, they need to be smacked down.

And a good time was had by all.

I didn't see the incident, but according to Naui, he didn't say he spit on her, just held a sign to block her camera from photographing workers. He was slapped, not "decked."

Yeah, Jammer CC! May some poor day worker take YOUR toilet-scrubbing job next -- or YOUR lawn trrimming job, or YOUR litter picking job, or YOUR below-minimum-wage construction job...

You know, all them high-paying jobs that so many white American males are all clammering and jostleing in position for.

I'm sorry, I just have to laugh. These poor day workers have so little, don't ask for much, and are willing to do the shit jobs that white males don't want to do -- and along comes some yahoo trying to pretend they're taking YOUR jobs.

It's too amusing.

> The beaner invasion is going to result in
> violence and the beaners are going to loose

Um, you might want to check the date on that. Mexicans have _already_ lost thanks to NAFTA and now CAFTA. Hell, Mexico god fucked in 1849 so you're kind of late in your wishful thinking.

Speaking of wishful thinking, he're praying for Pancho Villa tro return to kick from gringo ass -- and to clean up the Mexican government.

Hey Ugly Fudd, Naui AKA Nancy is on your side!!!
Nice to see you finally realize who the REAL Racists are!!!

Debbie Sattler aka OC Cute Girl, who is NOT Cute by any stretch btw, is Dave's (1-inch Group) girlfriend and he was driving the pickup truck at the time.

Dave claims that Naui "ran away" after Debbie slapped him but who pealed outta there in a display of burning rubber, Dave?.

Debbie, as a jew, you should be ashamed of your neo-nazi tendencies, you racist b*tch!

I'm not sure who 1sthandsource is, but it's not me.

My most recent job was a nice cushy desk seat in a mail room at a mortage company in Irvine. $12 per hour and I got some exercise walking around delivering the sorted mail. I got the position through Apple One, a temp work agency, after I displayed good English, date entry, and typing skills. Personally I'm not afraid of losing this type of work. It's there for Americans. Just show up and be available. I really had nothing to complain about in the first place personally.

One of the female Minuteman participants in Lake Forest complained that her two sons lost their jobs because of this issue. I tried to refer her to Apple One. English is still the main language around here. But I guess walking around a liquor store in Lake Forest and complaining works for her.

I thought about doing a day of day labor work just to see what it's like. But it may take up a job for a day from someone who needs it more than I do. My message has been "let them work." I think I should add "thank you day labor workers" to my message and call for employers to pay them good wages. If there's a time when the workers can enjoy life here on the same level as the rest of us, hopefully there can be a more fair distribution of all types of jobs among everyone. Not mandated really, I'm not a big fan of that. Just see how it goes and keep minds open with compassion and logic.

Who was there and knows all the save our state names? r u sure jammer

What do you mean? I arrived at like 9:15am or so, I remember aiming for 9am. I know some names but not all of them. I don't even remember BR's real name.

After reading the drivel you posted a few back Jammer, I'm surprised you can remember YOUR own real name.
The day laborers that come to my old neighborhood, where my father still lives, have used this community as an uncompensated fairgrounds on a daily basis. They expect the businesses, locals, and police to tolerate the imposition that anywhere from 100 - 200 people gather, eat, drink, pee, and poop while they bend every rule in the EDD book that the rest of us must abide by. For that, they give the neighborhood back no fees, but rather leftover trash, the smell of human effluent, and a flow of constant strangers who feel the neighborhood has gone badlands and anything goes now. They have also brought gang supervision to the area. amazing how there is little disgust at those overlords, but plenty for us Minutemen and SOS'ers that would like to see all laws enforced at sites like these. Might I ask if you'd rather the gangs stayed and we leave, or were you thinking they were only there to help illegal workers get jobs and send money to their families? When you live with it long enough, it starts to make you mad. Too many people in one area every day doing something that brings the neighborhood down and offers no value in any sense to compensate.
You want to thank the workers? Bring them all to your home, your neighborhood; After about a year or so, then you can lecture me...if you still want too. Until then, you just sound like another peripheral mouth that criticizes those who actually support the workers involuntarily, all the while not being required to do any actual support of them yourself.

Problem with gangs? Then make the work day labor workers do legitimate in every way and get them good wages so they can get homes and resources. To get them off the streets. They're already adding to our population and taking part in our economy. That should actually increase the need for more jobs and services to accomodate for the population. The fact that they are being employed can surely give them legitimate grounds for amnesty, if it comes to that. Ponder this I will. Let them work for good wages, you should. Be bitter, do not. Learn you shall.

Well there you go. Now the Minutemen who need jobs can go find one.

hmmmmmmm ... it looks like raggedy ann has an interesting life:

http://infoaboutdebsattler.blogspot.com/2003_11_01_infoaboutdebsattler_archive.html

http://infoaboutdebsattler.blogspot.com/

Okay that's getting too personal. A moderator please delete or hide that one. That's too private.

it's

1.) 3 years old
2.) no actual data, no details no pictures
3.) public information (court dockets)

haven't you ever seen the smoking gun website ?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/

what's the matter Cliff - have some skeletons in *your* closet too ?

so what's partially going on here is these people are airing their dirty laundry and now it's spread to here

looks like they have a history of how should I put it - being royal pains in the ass

the day labor situation is just another stage for them to play on, these criss-cross back & forth postings on here are something they *enjoy* doing

it's a lifestyle thing

P.S. - don't even try that rap on me - I never even heard of Becky or JA 2 weeks ago - they came here and I did some digging in the service of my sister pirate station FRSC

you guys all know eachother and have been doing it for years

the only thing we have in common is a few of us like to dig dirt

no crime in that - no matter how embarrassing your skeletons might be, you have only yourself to blame

I'm not the one who's made a life out of playing out dramatic soap opera style games for amusement, so I have no skeletons to speak of

the legal situation has already been addressed - you guys are staying just inside the law on what details are posted there - as noted by the blogger

The information has nothing to do with this issue and there's hardly any use for it. What's the point? Also, someone else who has a big role in the issue has this information and more but is holding back for certain reasons.

it appears the day laborers aren't the direct point of contention - they are merely in the cross-fire of a feud that has nothing to do with them

the emotionaly charged debates in multible threads were a tipoff

these people just want to be left alone to work jobs that most other people aren't even willing to do, next thing they know they've become extras in "as the world turns"

your flippy-floppy loyalities raised my curiosity as well, and while you conveniently characterized it as "gathering information on the enemy from the inside", some tend to see it as simply being a mole - a harsher label perhaps

I was already wondering how stedfast your loyality might be - whether you might change back as it suits you and with this new revelation of personal feuding being the foundation of the players in this drama, I wonder even more. It would be good to see a more established member or patron here vouch for your authenticity...


any takers ?

Hey jammster, don't put to much into an attack of this nature.
Take precessions, of course about personal security but if you show a
'don't fuck w/ me ' profile these cowards back off. Just inform your friends about what's going on and continue to be a clarion if a bit strident at times or off key . You'll get better if your heart is in it.

did i write precessions when I meant Precautions.?
Spank me.

> One of the female Minuteman participants in
> Lake Forest complained that her two sons lost
> their jobs because of this issue

What job did her sons do? Scrubbing toilets? Picking oranges and tomatoes? Laying bricks?

Seriously, it would be informative to find out what jobs she thinks her sons "lost" to illegal Mexicans.

I look at the car washing facilities around the Southland and I always wonder if all those guys have citizenship. It's a failing, I'll admit to. But I look at the hard physical labor it takes to quickly turn around a car that people are waiting for and I have to wonder if there's any white guys who would be willing to work so hard for whatever wages the car wash pays these workers.

> They expect the businesses, locals, and police to
> tolerate the imposition that anywhere from 100 - 200
> people gather, eat, drink, pee, and poop while they
> bend every rule in the EDD book that the rest of us
> must abide by. For that, they give the neighborhood
> back no fees, but rather leftover trash, the smell of
> human effluent, and a flow of constant strangers
> who feel the neighborhood has gone badlands and
> anything goes now.

These are all valid concerns. The solution, however, isn't to band neo-Nazis and other white supremacists together to spew hate on sidewalks, or to harass and terrorize the people.

The solution is to utilize one of these inexhaustable Christian churches (that _also_ don't give anything back to the community) and use churches as employment centers. Use their toilets, their offices, and allow "strangers" to drive to the church to pick up day workers.

At the same time, have the church collect a dollar from every temporary employer who utilizes the church's facilities -- which are tax exempt in the first place.

Point being, why not work together to solve hunger, poverty, and human misery, and why not put these otherwise useless tax exempt drains on human productivity to actual use?

Incidentally, putting work services centers inside of Christian churches or parking lots would go a long way toward stopping these scumbag Nazis in their tracks. The camera would love to videotape such scumbags picketing and protesting outside of Christian churches.

The San Gabriel Vally Tribune is reporting on yet another study into the demographics of the greater Los Angeles area -- which should get everybody howeling with renewed energy.

http://sgvtribune.com/news/ci_3576574

"Whites leaving county."

The "browning of America" is happening and it's unstopable. Whites are being out bred and as cities "brown up," whites continue the phenomena of "white flight" in an effort to "escape."

It's _this_ that the neo-Nazis and other unfortunate individuals are railing against. It's not about obeying the law, being fair, people crapping and pissing in the bushes along roads -- which are valid problems, undeniably.

It's about the unstopable supplanting of White America and the perception that pinkish skin hued humans are quickly going extinct -- the allele is being removed from the species through lack of competitive breeding.

As whites continue to be displaced and fall into the minority everywhere and there's no place left to "escape" to, count on seeing ever more violent "anti illegal immigration" extremism.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

Save Our state got some info of their opposition and it's in their site.

I'm not sure how SOS gets their info. I'm not telling them anything and I don't attend Green Party, Collectivo, or ANSWER meetings. I speak with some people like John Earl, but I don't relay information to others. Nor do I have any inside information on their plans nor am I interested. My interaction with him and others is a communicative one to find answers and reach understanding.

As for flip flopping loyalties, I have no loyaty or allegiance or Debbie, the Minutemen, SOS, or Gilchrist. I just complained about the posting of private information as a matter of privacy. But do what you want, whatever.

As for the jobs the two sons of one of the other female Minuteman persons, I'm not sure but I'll try to find out if I come across her again.

I mean I have no loyalty or allegiance to anyone on the Minuteman/SOS side.

If you guys don't want the my info and efforts concerning the Stormfront people in the Gilchrist campaign, fine. I've moved on to another site where my efforts and what I've undergone are being acknowledged more. I really wanted the public to know about this and I think they should if Gilchrist is going to run for office in my country.

It's not that big a deal - and it's just *my* observation - I carry no weight or authority 'round here..

It just seems like we've not been getting the whole story and the data you wished banished seems to be part of it

personally I prefer *more* data, more "dirt" being a dirt-digger myself

your call for moderation of the above seemed out of place compared to your once more stated role and abilities of being a dirt-digger like me

I don't know any of the players in this situation, and really it's none of my business

calls for sweeping data under the rug tend to perk my curiosity and grab my attention..

my agressive stance is simply "salting the data" to see what pops up

you appear to be doing us a service, it appears that some people here appreciate your efforts

I was inviting them to speak up - calling for a show of hands as it were

It's just the private info about Debbie that doesn't involve the issue that I found unnecessary. But i won't press it too much, I don't want to cause any arguments that will complicate things.

I spoke at length with John Earl about what i've seen in the campaign and it should be on his site soon. I actually named the two individuals on camera and if he chooses to include that, for the sake of our knowledge i'm okay with that. i'm not ripping into these two particular SF individuals. It's Gilchrist who made the mistake of having them in the campaign. And he does remember them from Laguna Beach.

I'm at a rehearsal, odd there's a computer in here. I'll be home tonight. take it easy folks.

I'm in the library now. Interesting, my friend has a Sociology teacher who has mentioned Gilchrist, criticizing him but being sensible rather than fanatical. I may speak in her class one day to describe my experiences.

Anyways I guess I won't press forth about posting that info about Debbie. I'll just let my feelings on that decide on my own actions. I just thought that info was too personal and didn't have any use for this issue. That's my input, I'll leave it at that. I'll take back my call for moderation.

The info I speak of invovling the Gilchrist campaign is about what happens in the campaign itself. I don't know about their work history or past issues with the law or courts nor am I concerned with that. Unless there's a substantial way to figure out their personalities from it. Sorry if I came off as a double standard kind of person, that's never my intention.

Okay, now we need moderation please. Obviously this is someone on the Minuteman side.

in Lake Forest anyway?

According to their web site, they were at Campo with Gilchrist and the Swift Boat guy who is writing his book.

I didn't know they were in Campo until afterwards. And I wouldn't be interested in driving down there anyways. I'm also not focused on the border itself. I'm just stating my experiences and supporting the workers in Lake Forest.

As for any Minuteman posting my personal info, I'd prefer it not happen. I was trying to prevent Debbie's info from being displayed here. But I can't just be authoritative here so there's only so much I can do. Oh well.

I turned off text messages for my number though.

Thank you moderator for deleting my cellphone number. I'm not sure if it was a Minuteman on a vendetta or 1inch or what. Maybe someone thought it was me who posted that blogspot with info or that I may have told people where whoever lives. But I have done nothing of the sort. Infact last Saturday I witnessed a prank phone call to a Minuteman participant. I was asked for the number but I didn't give it. Someone else had it and provided it. I can only do so much and they made their choice of actions. But it was not done in my hand. I swear by this.

So, whoever posted my number, no maps or photos of my home or whatever, okay?

> Thank you moderator for deleting my
> cellphone number.

It's informative and interesting to observe the variousns in these issues. The anti-hate activists are usually civilized, reasonable, informed.

The other major side -- the SOSMM / Aryan Nations et al. -- seem to employ inexcusible behavior -- including physical assaults.

I mean it's so easy to observe who holds the moral high ground.

Fred Lice:

Oh, you mean jobs in the meat packing industry, the construction industry, and the hospitality industry as well ? Shame on you , you welfare freak ! Tell your rap to the drywaller that is making HALF of what he used to because of the watering down of wages in the construction industry. Tell it to those that have spent years building their businesses, only to have this invasion, and its results ruin them. You sickening little elitist scum. The only high ground you have is on top of your balloon like head that is inflated with non-caring ego.

Cliffy:

You are nothing but a little elitist still living in the nest of your parents home. Anyone that takes you seriously right now has a screw loose. And you have the arrogance to talk trash about Gilchrist, a man over twice your age, with more accomplised than you may ever hope to. Amazing the level of pride you display.

It's the elitists who determine what corporate thuggery goes on in these squeezed societies like America which managed to pass NAFTA against the will of the majority, to fund the wholesale shipping of our manufacturing base over 'there' while their cronies in Mexico etc. crush the working class there with para military terror death squads who murder labor organizers

Not to worry, however, that also will come home to roost.
You stand or most likely sit back a eschew other societies where corruption rules, not seeing it right here in the boardrooms and congressional halls of bribery.
What do you do about it?
Attack the victim, including yourself..
Don't you know who's foot is on your neck?

"You are nothing but a little elitist still living in the nest of your parents home. Anyone that takes you seriously right now has a screw loose. And you have the arrogance to talk trash about Gilchrist, a man over twice your age, with more accomplised than you may ever hope to. Amazing the level of pride you display."

An elitist? Yeah right. I wish I could own a major corporation just so I could shut it down and distribute the money to all the cheated workers.

As for my parents "nest," I'm not the only one. There's a much older Minuteman guy who lives with his parents. And really, so what? Gilchrist is the one who seems to have a screw loose. I'm not being arrogant. I'm the one who does not need a comfort zone. If I see something wrong, I question it. I did that and got kicked out of the Gilchrist campaign. And not that I really look back, the more I was involved, the more I disagreed with to what degree they took their actions. As for what Gilchrist accomplished, I'll dismiss his time in Vietnam since I'm not immediately impressed with that. I'm not gonna be submissive just because someone is a veteran. I already made that clear regarding a Korean war veteran I encountered in Costa Mesa. Infact I could take offense to that since I'm Korean myself. And what other accomplishments? The Minuteman Project? It's all a big joke. Especially in Lake Forest. And I have a lot of pride in what I'm doing. I feel fine, thank you very much.

I'm the consequence of having white nationalists from Stormfront in your campaign for Congress.

I meant now that I look back

> Oh, you mean jobs in the meat packing industry,
> the construction industry, and the hospitality
> industry as well ?

Yeah, all them poor day workers are being driven to meat packing facilities and hospitals... Yeah, and they're also being driven to airports, electronics asembly lines, and software engineering day work, pulling down all those american white man jobs and snatching the food from the white man's mouthes.

Yep!

One of the things I've found is that there's _zero_ intelligent Republicans out there in the real world who exhibit an IQ greater than that of their mass murdering baby killing Fuhrer George W. Bush. And, it would seem, posts like that one kind of tends to prove it, huh?

Try some _reaon_ backed up by some falsifiable claims and references, would ya? If you want to claim that illegal brown people are hurting you and your children by taking jobs, kindly present some facts.

Thanks so much in advance for your prompt assistance.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

> like America which managed to pass NAFTA
> against the will of the majority, to fund the
> wholesale shipping of our manufacturing base
> over 'there' while their cronies in Mexico etc

Yep, here we have a fascist regime that ships American jobs overseas and has resulted in an 8 TRILLION dollar deficit -- when under Clinton we had a surplus -- and we have some 800,000 illegal brown people entering the United States taking jobs that whites don't want...

And yet the Republidiots among us say nothing about their Fuhrer's crimes and treason against us, instead focusing on the poor day workers -- some of whom are legal citizens.

Talk about a fucked sense of priorities.

This fascist terrorist regime invaded an innocent country and has murdered around a quarter of a million brown people -- who worship the "wrong" gods.

That's a massive injustice that makes illegal Mexican immigrants pale into virtual insignificance. The United States will never recover from this brutal Christofascist terrorist regime's crimes against humanity and treason against America -- and we have a dozen or so profoundly what-else individuals harassing people who are only trying to eat.

Injustice is the norm. Stupidity is also.

My opinions only an donly my opinions.

Don't even try to make me believe that both parties don't feed the same mouth.
Look at all of the bastards on "both" sides of the isle that were involved in BCCI...

> 8 TRILLION dollar deficit -- when under Clinton we had a surplus


Elmer - you're confusing the yearly trade deficit with the national debt

Clinton only reduced the debt 3.89 % but he gave us a positive trade deficit balance

the 8.2 trillion dollar figure is the national debt (total all years added up)


> Stupidity is also.


[cough]

I'm sure there are things like arrest records and those "look up info on anyone" sites that helped SOS get personal information on their rivals.

Also with regard to white fiight -- if the white folks didn't move, there wouldn't be a demographic shift. It's not like someone's forcing them to move.

From seeing the photo on this site, it is obvious SLAVE LABOR is being pushed. Look at those workers - that scene will make wages go down for all workers.

That is a scene of modern day slave labor - where an employer can drive in an pick up a slave for the day.

It is documented that employers have NOT paid these workers before. This is modern day slavery on the sidewalks of America. SHAMEFUL

The Minuteman folks will say stuff like how employers are slave traders or whatever, seemingly sounding sympathetic to the workers. But then they heckle, argue with, and even harrass the day labor workers all the same. I've seen it, been disgusted by it, video taped it, we know the deal. I'm open to amnesty but not so much advocating it. I talk about it though. But my primary focus is on how day labor workers are being treated while they're still here. Because no matter what happens, they're here for a while.

There's over 800,000 "illegal immigrants" coming into the US every year, and those who are coming from Mexico are coming because they have a hard time eating under the extremely corrupt Republican-like government there in Mexico.

Step #1 is to stop NAFTA and CAFTA dead.

Steo #2 is to foment a popular armed replacement of the massively corrupt government, and a redistribution of the wealth

Neither of that's going to happen -- so they're going to continue to head North, and walls won't stop any of them. Not when they're hungry.

And that's the thing. People keep saying they need to go back and start a revolution, as if we can just order them to do that just so our streets are a little less crowded or whatever. I'm thinking how can people even think about organizing such a far idea as a revolution in Mexico when they're having enough difficulties eating and being alive?

As for the trade agreements, perhaps we have to foot some responsibility even if it doesn't feel like we have to. We buy products. That keeps the business spinning. Even if it seems like the products are right there and we "don't have a choice" in what we buy, we ate it up. That's a factor to consider as well. The industry fed it to us, but hey we ate it.