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by about Iraq and petroleum
Saturday, Jan. 17, 2004 at 3:49 PM
some neo-con lies about Iraq debunked
Neocon LIE #1) "The war with Iraq is legal"
The invasion and ongoing occupation of Iraq is not and never was legal according to UN and international law. No weapons of mass destruction were found nor was there any evidence of these weapons. Neo-cons lied to the american public about weapons because they (Halliburton, Cheney, Bush, etc..) wanted the oil under Iraq. The UN weapons inspectors were removed from Iraq before any evidence was found, Bush was eager to attack because he was running out of lies.
Neocon LIE #2) "The war with Iraq is moral based on defense after 9/11"
The "attacks" of 9/11 were known by FBI/CIA intelligence and could likely be a strategic move between the Bush/Cheney cabal and Saudi Royal Family (connex with Bin Laden) to justify the invasion of Afganistan and Iraq, so more Iraqi oil could be exported by Halliburton/Betchel. Cheney still gets deffered compensation from Halliburton in millions/yr. Can anyone imagine an invasion and occupation of this magnitude without the 9/11 tragedy?
Neocon LIE #3) "The death toll in Afganistan and Iraq is less than 9/11"
The current estimate of Iraqi civilians dead is above 7,000, this does not include the people not accounted for, and the people who will die from cancer due to depleted uranium in the Iraqi environment. This does not trivialize the loss of American soldiers (mostly lower income people of color snatched away on theri eighteenth birthday) in Iraq and also the civilians killed in the known attack on the WTC. since the FBI/CIA had info about 9/11beforehand and failed to act, we find the comparison made between lives lost irrelevent.
We also seem to forget that 50,000+ people die every year on America's roads and freeways while consuming the products of the petroleum industry which is why we are in Iraq in the first place. Why are this many casualties ignored and accepted as "normal" by the neocon media?
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by Gomez Adams
Saturday, Jan. 17, 2004 at 5:00 PM
You say that the war is not legal according to the UN and international law. . .
If Saddam's regime is legal under the UN and international law. . . and deposing him isn't. . .
then the UN and international law has the same moral authority as Castro's Cuba.
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by ;pkj;lkh
Saturday, Jan. 17, 2004 at 5:51 PM
They say a lot of things.
Most of them aren't true.
But they think that if they repeat them often enough, they become true.
Reality and the Left are only nodding aquaintances.
nonanarchist
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by why war
Saturday, Jan. 17, 2004 at 6:21 PM
Could it be that the war was because of Saddam's propensity for irrational violence, his huge cash flow (which permitted him to buy weapons and expertise from anywhere on the globe, but especially from France , Russia , and other nations with less moral qualms than the US), and the fact that the time to attack him was opportune, because once he had nuclear weapons, he would be too much of a wild card and destabilizing influence?
Whether or not he had the weapons, he had the money to buy the engineers and physicists and the materials. And the inspections never worked like they should.
I think the Bush people should have said that they were not sure if he had the WMD, but they were sure that he had the ability to produce them, the intent to use them, and the money to buy them. And those reasons (in addition to his being a brutal dictator and murderer of hundreds of thousands or more) would be enough for me to justify the war. And I think if you decipher the sometimes cryptic pronouncements of Secretary Powell, he never said that we are sure he has nuclear weapons and that he has the ability to use them on short notice. Powell always qualified what he said by saying "we have intelligence that indicates this is his intent..." or "that this is possible in the near future..."
Metaphorically it was like the Nazis in Norway and their heavy water operation . The Allies had to take it out. The Nazis did not yet have an atom bomb, but they were sure trying to make one, and the heavy water moderator was a very dangerous sign that they were getting close.
So strategically- it was right to get rid of Saddam, before he got any further. Waiting longer, or allowing continued inspections, was an invitation to disaster.
I wonder if you have ever spoken to any Iraquis (a lot of them live in LA) about what life under Saddam was like - they hated him. Even people who benefited financially .....or got for example student scholarships from the regime - they all hated him and feared him. He and his regime had the whole country terrified. Maybe if you spoke to a few Iraquis you would have a different perspective on events.
In some places in the USA with large Iraqui populations(New York, Dearborn Michigan) when Saddam was captured the Iraquis were celebrating in the streets. It was pretty festive. The other Arabs may hate them for it because among the other Arabs it is fashionable to hate the USA - but to many Iraquis George Bush is a liberator and he always will be.
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by neocons chupa
Saturday, Jan. 17, 2004 at 11:16 PM
The spooks are in full effect whenever the truth is unraveled on the IMC. I suspect fetid and his ilk are at it again.
Let's see: 1.) Sorry to update you slow-thinkers, but the U.S. still hasn't found any WMD's in Iraq, so what would Saddam be threatening us with in the first place, his bad breath? 2.) The Iraqi military has been in shambles since the first Gulf War, when he could have been taken out by the popular uprising that occurred by the Iraqi people at the war's end, which was snuffed out by bu(ll)sh(it) I's calling of a cease fire. Cease fire my ass, tell that to the Iraqi's that lived in the no-fly zones that were bombed throughout the Clinton era. 3.) Slow-thinkers suffer from historical amnesia; the only people who sold Saddam WMD's were US you crackheads! And then he disposed of them after the first Gulf War as verified by Scott Ritter and the other UN weapons inspectors. If any WMD's are found, it will be in October, right before the election, because we'll plant them there. Joseph Wilson's wife was going to expose what seemed like a CIA plot to do this before she was outted by the white house, which is an impeachable offense by the way. 4.) How many other dictatorships and oppressive regimes are there in the world that we don't even bother with? For starters, look at the labels on your shirts and tennis shoes and you'll find the name of one of them which has favored-nation trading status. 5.) Saddam didn't have to be removed with a military invasion if we let the Iraqi people handle their own business (as mentioned above), but after the first Gulf War, we crippled them so hard with the sanctions, a popular uprising became impossible. bu(ll)sh(it) I let Saddam stay in power. his son and the oil baron vice president planned this attack as soon as they got into office, excuse me, stole the executive office, so they could immediately tend to their greedy interests in taking over Iraq's oil. Former treasurer O'Neill has confirmed this recently, which was something progressives have been stating for years now.
We could have found other means to depose Saddam as well without an invasion. In 1973, the CIA helped the Chilean military depose a democratically-elected president by the name of Salvador Allende and then put in Pinochet, a Latin American Saddam who still lives depite murdering thousands of civilians. But it wasn't in the bu(ll)sh(it) adminstrations interest to do this I guess. Pick up a copy of the documentary "Uncovered" where you will see that even former CIA agents admit that the invasion of Iraq wasn't necessary. I figured the fake- ass hispanic above would realize this. 6.) The republicans perpetuate so many lies its amazing that many call themselves christians, but just goes to show how empty the religious right is in this country. Pick up the new books by Al Franken, Robert Sheer, and Bob Connasen and get a clue.
As for the old, "well the Iraqis are happy he's gone." No shit, tell me something I don't know. But Iraqi's aren't stupid like Americans who depend on corporate news for their information. They know their own history unlike the morons above and they know that the US has been dicking them around for years. Never trust a bush is a common proverb for Iraqis too, so yeah they're happy Saddam is gone, but they know they don't have to be greatful to the US for this since the US only does things out of its own capitalist imperialist interest, not out of altruism. The occupation has gotten so bad that now some Iraqi's are even daring to wish for the days of Hussein. What did you do to help the Iraqi people during a decade of sanctions? Did you pressure the UN to lift the sanctions so the Iraqi people could get some sustenance and build up the strength to topple their dictator? Or did you just masturbate to the testimony in Clinton impeachment hearings? When Clinton lied, a young woman got semen on her dress. bu(ll)sh(it) has lied and people have died.
Get off the crack and get a clue.
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by blimey
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 12:48 AM
Actually, prominent neocon hawks have admitted that the Iraq war was in fact illegal. See the UK Guardian.
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by l;klkjh
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 5:42 AM
...when people adopt a superior moral and intellectual stance when they are obviously not equipped to do so?
It's especially funny when they consider AL Franken a good source.
Hee hee!
nonanarchist
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by Gomez
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 6:25 AM
1. WMD's have been found in Iraq. The Danes found some the other day.
Moreover, Kay's team found secret weapons labs and equipment needed to make WMD's. These were not disclosed to Blix, as required by the Almighty UN. Why on earth not?
2. The Iraqi military in a shambles? Funny, I recall before the war being told how thousands of Americans would come home in body bags. The Iraq military is a lion or a lamb depending on which day of the week it is, apparently.
3. The US never sold Iraq WMD's. You're probably confused by the fact that that many countries, including the US and France, sold Iraq dual use technologies, which the SOB used to make WMD's.
Or your being deceptive. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
4. Yes, the US doesn't run an empire, as you've stated. We haven't invaded every country we disagree with. We try to find other ways to engage them, and to bring them around to the decent way of doing things.
We tried that with Saddam too. For 13 years we gave him chances to bring his regime in compliance with respectable nations. He not only refused, he was defiant. Now he's gone. I won't cry.
5. You're criticizing Bush for not taking out Saddam in 1991 -- but now you'll criticize him for taking him out in 2003.
The US had no mandate for taking out Saddam in 1991. If we had supported the uprising, now we'd be hearing the same criticism we hear about US backing a coup in Chile!
There is only one string of logic that runs through your comment, hatred for the US. Hatred so blinding, you can't even see the good we've done.
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by ;lklhlkjh
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 8:00 AM
His political philosophy doesn't encourage independent thought...just blind parrotings of the Bush-hatred du jour.
Makes me wonder...if Bush is not re-elected ( I know, purely hypothetical), what are the Bush haters going to do? Where will all that vitriol go? Who will be their next target of hatred?
Or will they simply implode?
nonanarchist
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by nonrepublican
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 12:12 PM
;lk;lj;lj@stoopid.com
ann_coulter_scary.jpgjbcn8q.jpg, image/jpeg, 250x308
nonanarchists favorite jerk off pic. jerry likes coulter.
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by liars & the lying liars
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 12:14 PM
';kl;k';k@Immadipshitlunatic.com
268658.jpgavrzua.jpg, image/jpeg, 168x200
error
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by nonauthentic
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 12:18 PM
wackotroll@;ljklkj;.com
bushimage.gif, image/png, 600x547
error
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by lkjhjhghjg
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 3:14 PM
Don't know what you're talki...wait a minute!
Don't tell you you've fallen for that silliness of Hex's -- IP analysis, 5,000 posts, confirmed by tarot cards.
What a tool!
Say...are you Hex's little brother, by any chance?
You soak up bandwidth for no discernible purpose just like he does.
nonanarchist
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by Hex anon w/ encryption
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 4:18 PM
israeli_army_restraint.jpg, image/jpeg, 800x527
notice how the troll - who isn't wanted here at all - is the only one who whines about bandwidth, in the days of broadband no less..
he's also the only one whining about the "baby killer pictures" - truth hurting as it does...
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by ;lkkljhkjl
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 4:40 PM
...is when you bozos post picture after picture, it drives up the bandwidth costs of your web host.
George Soros will be mightily displeased.
And if he shuts you down, where will I go to laugh and point?
BTW, Hex: Am I still "Jerry" this week, or have you analyzed a few more thousand posts and determined to an absolute certainty that I'm somebody else?
If it sounds like I'm making fun of you, it's only because I am.
nonanarchist
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by you post more nonsense than anyone ever!
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 7:02 PM
hemp.gif9i7eev.gif, image/png, 215x275
When you going to learn jerry.
Quit posting as several people you skitzo.
Your the only one wasting bandwith dipshit.
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by ;ljl;kj is not worthy
Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004 at 7:10 PM
resident.jpghvuq2f.jpg, image/jpeg, 360x288
Funny how you have convinced yourself you belong on indymedia jerry. You have pointed out that you know the names of people here at indymedia. Yeah you and your skitzo posts are so important huh. indymedia was designed for trolls like you. Your the dumbest person ever. Your a blast to fuck with tho. Your such a sitting duck. Did your daddy beat you up? where you bullied in school? Is that why you keep coming back? You just need some attention? Your truly a sicko. I bet you have kiddie porn on your computer. cept they are nekkid dead arab boys cause thats what gets you off huh predictable loser?
Your sick jerry.
jerry is nonanarchist, fresca, bushadmirer, coco, and many many others.
If you ever see his posts ignore them he is a dumbfucker. He does not even work. But supports republican lies. You fit right in hypocrit.
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by ';lk';lkj;lkh
Monday, Jan. 19, 2004 at 7:03 PM
You truly are, Skippy.
You don't like what I have to say?
Too bad, so sad. Waaah.
You just keep thinking that us trolls are just one person...if that helps you deal with your fear, that's fine by me.
Oh, BTW...it's your buddy Hex that has all the pictures of dead Arab boys...not me.
The funniest bit is you calling me dumb...all the while completely butchering the English language.
I repeat: What a dork!
nonanarchist
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by nonbozo
Monday, Jan. 19, 2004 at 9:44 PM
Well, John Stewart Mill or dickman or nonanarchist. You may know how to type but you still can't use your brain pan. But you have Bush Admirer on your side- big whoopie. I know I'm impressed. Not.
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by ;lkkljh
Monday, Jan. 19, 2004 at 10:33 PM
Well, boo hoo.
Words fail me. I am crushed with disappointment. My life is meaningless. I am filled with unreasoning hatred. Comparisons between Bush and Hitler suddenly make sense. My entire political philosophy will fit on a piece of cardboard nailed to a stick. I believe chanting, singing, and drums are potent forces for social change. I think breaking windows is a Constitutionally-protected form of self-expression. Setting SUVs on fire will benefit the environment. I believe Tom Tomorrow is the untimate in political discourse, and will post his strips in any thread, relevant or not. Jews control the media and the world, except IndyMedia, the last bastion of truth. My posting Tom Tomorrow strips can only benefit mankind. All the people who disagree with me are either mentally ill, incredibly uneducated, or government agents, because of course my viewpoint is the only sane one possible. But there is only one person who disagrees with me, and he uses many different names to post his racist, fascist, hate-filled rants where he calls me "Skippy". CAPS LOCK And Random CapiTaliZation make my arguments More Compelling...along With The Use of MULTIPLE Exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!! similarly i also dont need to use capitalization punctuation or even corect speeling I will attempt to turn any and every thread to the topic of the EEEEEvil JOOOOS' occupation of the poor, misunderstood, and hopelessy oppressed noble Palestinian Peace-Loving folk, and will endless post pictures of dead children. I believe suicide bombing busloads of innocent children is a legitmate expression of anger and resistance...but they're not innocent, are they? Giant KKKorporations (note subtle use of "KKK") want to kill every last human being on the planet. AmeriKKKA (there it is again! Aren't I clever?) is responsible for all evil that has ever occurred in history, past, present, and future...unless there was/is/will be a Democrat in office. I frimly belive that there will be someday a revolution in AmeriKKKa, but I have no idea how it will work, or who will lead it, or how to get it started...and I constantly belittle the Mr. and Mrs. Average Stupid AmeriKKKan Sheep, who I will somehow have to sway to my side in order to seize power. I believe in free speech for me, but not for that one person who disagrees with me. Any criticism of my opinions is automatically fascist censorship...and racist, too. A liberal call for a boycott is righteous; a conservative call for a boycott is oppression. Dictators are my friends. The UN, and especially France, should have final say over AmeriKKKa's foreign and domestic policy. Saddam was a victim of imeprialism. North Korea is a Worker's Paradise. KKKapitalism is inherently evil; wealth should be confiscated and distributed evenly. I don't need oil; I ride the bus! Noam Chomsky is the smartest man who ever lived. I have a "Che" T-shirt. I have a "Free Mumia" T-shirt. I think Dennis Kucinich is the only man who can save AmeriKKKa. Bush is Hitler. Jews are Hitler. Anyone who disagrees with me is Hitler. It's all about the oil! No WMD! Bush lied, people died! We support our troops when they kill their officers! Lesbians against Bush! Legalize pot!
Holy crap! I'm turning into a progressive!
non-nonanarchist
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by Skippy
Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2004 at 7:42 AM
we have a pinhead's pinhole vission of the world. Talk about clueless. But it the same old story of a stupid prog with a big paint brush, swinging wildly, while we laugh at him. It's a good thing they will never put him in combat. He'd fall into a hole.
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by ;lkj;lkjhlkjh
Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2004 at 5:16 PM
...I have seen on IMC.
Every. Single. One.
Singularly, they're silly enough.
But when you see them all together like that, it REALLY makes you "progressives" look like you're totally disconnected from reality. Coincidence? I think not.
You don't like it? Not my problem.
Like I say, I'm just here to laugh and point.
Thanks for providing so much entertainment, IMC.
And I'd also like to thank my cyberstalker wanna-be, Skippy, who has certainly raised the bar for you other libbies and annies.
You're going to have to put a lot more effort into it if you wanna beat Skippy for EV.
nonanarchist
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by Barney
Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2004 at 7:34 PM
You never once mentioned the word "Solidarity",
C'mon Bro!! Solidarity with the "workers, the lesbians, the Palestinians" and all that..
No need to cancel your subscription to the National Review just yet. ;-)
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by ;lkjkjh
Wednesday, Jan. 21, 2004 at 3:04 AM
KNEW I left out something...
Thanks, Barney.
*Ahem*
Solidarity with all oppressed peoples! Palestinians, lesbians, Native Americans, Jews...oops, no, not Jews...uh, Arabs (unless they're being oppressed by other Arabs), Democrats, and Sherman Austin!
Workers of the world, unite! Join the Revolution! No war but class war! Look for the Union label!
non-nonanarchist
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