Are "anarcho"-capitalists really Anarchists?

In a word, no. While "anarcho"-capitalists obviously try to associate themselves with the anarchist tradition by using the word "anarcho", their ideas are distinctly at odds with those associated with anarchism. Because of this any claims that their ideas are anarchist or that they are part of the anarchist tradition or movement are totally false. They are merely trying to exploit the movement for capitalist gain.

"Anarcho"-capitalists claim to be anarchists because they say that they oppose government. As such, they use a dictionary definition of anarchism. However, this fails to appreciate that anarchism is a POLITICAL THEORY, not a dictionary definition. As dictionaries are rarely politically sophisticated things, this means that they fail to recognize that anarchism is more than just opposition to government, it is also marked a opposition to capitalism (i.e. exploitation and private property). Thus, opposition to government is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being an anarchist. One also needs to be opposed to exploitation and capitalist private property. As "anarcho"-capitalists do not consider interest, rent and profits (i.e. capitalism) to be exploitative nor oppose capitalist property rights, they are not anarchists.

So, in what ways do "anarcho"-capitalists differ from anarchists? There are three main ones:

First, unlike both Individualist and Social anarchists, "anarcho"-capitalists support capitalism (a "pure" free market type of capitalism). This means that they reject totally the ideas of anarchists with regards to property and economic analysis. For example, like all supporters of capitalists they consider rent, profit and interest as valid incomes. In contrast, all Anarchists consider these as exploitation and agree with the Individualist Anarchist, Benjamin Tucker when argued that:

"Whomever contributes to production is alone entitled. What has no rights that who is bound to respect. What is a thing. Who is a person. Things have no claims; they exist only to be claimed. The possession of a right cannot be predicted of dead material, but only a living person." [quoted by Wm. Gary Kline, The Individualist Anarchists, p. 73]

And this, we must note, is the fundamental critique of the capitalist theory that capital is productive. In and of themselves, fixed costs do not create value. Rather value is creation depends on how investments are developed and used once in place. Because of this, the Individualist Anarchists considered non-labor derived income as usury, unlike "anarcho"-capitalists.

Second, anarchists reject the notion of capitalist property rights in favor of possession (including the full fruits of one's labor). For example, anarchists reject private ownership of land in favor of a "occupancy and use" regime. In this anarchists argue that "property is theft".

These ideas are an essential part of anarchist politics, and they cannot be removed without seriously damaging the rest of the foolish anarchist theory. This can be seen from Tucker's comments that "Liberty insists. . . [on] the abolition of the State and the abolition of usury; on no more government of man by man, and no more exploitation of man by man." . He indicates that anarchism has specific economic and political ideas, that it opposes capitalism along with the state. Therefore anarchism was never purely a "political" concept, but always combined an opposition to oppression with an opposition to exploitation. The social anarchists made exactly the same point. Which means that when Tucker argued that "Liberty insists on Socialism. . . - true Socialism, Anarchistic Socialism: the prevalence on earth of Liberty, Equality, and Solidarity" [Instead of a Book, p. 363] he knew exactly what he was saying and meant it.

This combination of the political and economic is essential as they mutually reinforce each other. Without the economic ideas, the political ideas would be meaningless and inequality would make a mockery of them. As Kline notes, the Individualist Anarchists' "proposals were designed to establish true equality of opportunity . . . and they expected this would result in a society without great wealth or poverty. In the absence of monopolistic factors which would distort competition, they expected a society largely of self-employed workmen with no significant disparity of wealth between any of them since all would be required to live at their own expense and not at the expense of exploited fellow human beings."

Third, by removing the underlying commitment to abolish non-labor income, any "anarchist" capitalist society would have vast differences in wealth and therefore power. Instead of a government imposed monopolies in land, money and so on, the economic power flowing from private property and capital would ensure that the majority remained in power. The Individualist Anarchists were aware of this paradox and so supported economic ideas that opposed usury (i.e. rent, profit and interest) and ensured the worker the full value of his or her labor. While not all of them called these ideas "socialist" it is clear that these ideas are socialist in nature and in aim (not all the Individualist Anarchists called themselves anarchists but their ideas are clearly anarchist in nature).

Last, Because "anarcho"-capitalists embrace capitalism and reject socialism, they cannot be considered anarchists or part of the anarchist tradition.

You have been studying DeVoy too long. Please check in at Headquarters with your latest data.

"For example, like all supporters of capitalists they consider rent, profit and interest as valid incomes. In contrast, all Anarchists consider these as exploitation..."

Interesting. So in order to prevent starving to death, the true anarchist will have to grow his own food or barter...everything else is "exploitation".

"... the anarchist tradition."

WHAT anarchist tradition? When asked to give an example of an anarchist society, anarchists typically hold up this one little enclave in Spain from the '30s....that lasted only a few years.

There has NEVER been a successful, long-term, large-scale anarchistic society that offers its members the same opportunities as a capitalist society.

And there never will be.

Not all forms of capitalism are hierarchical in nature. Specifically, the elimination of employment in favor of the support of worker's collectives where the workers OWN the means of production yet sell their wares on the market IS NOT exploitive. Such collectives can self manage in a non-hierarchical fashion.

It is my personal opinion that the issues underlying a just society have nothing to do with the capitalism/socialsm distinction. The important issues have everything to do with the ethical system that guides individuals in their economic decisions combined with the question of whether or not there exists hierarchy. In my estimation, hierarchy is unethical because it violates the Kantian principle that one should never use another as a means to one's own ends. Hierarchy subverts the sovereignty of the individual that finds herself in a position of subserviance.

All economic systems can be reduced to the same principles. This includes both communist and capitalist systems. What matters is the basis of the decisions that are made in the exchange of goods and the relationship between the worker and the means of production. So long as the worker owns the means of production and a just ethics guides the individual's economic choices, an anarcho-capitalist system, based on these principles, becomes communist. Moreover, it becomes anarcho-communist as the individual voluntarily practices socialism. Voltantary socialism is called "a gift economy" and that is what I support.

It mystifies me why a group of mentally ill individuals engaged in online hate activities against Arabs, Muslims, and Anarchists; engaged in online terrorism; and engaged in reporting anarchists to the police, would come to this newswire to pontificate on a philosophy they have no understanding of.

Studies prove that authoritarians view ideological questions in black and white. In a word, they are "retarded." It is no surprise that KOBE is unable to understand deep concepts.

There is one major contradiction in the thinking of these people that is blatant: the fact that doing away with minimum wages, public schools, public hospitals, minimum safety standards for workers on the job, unemployment benefits and public sanitation and fire fighting services would provoke such vast social unrest that only a very strong, authoritarian state would be able to keep these people in power. The kind of state which existed in Chile under Pinochet, and which was lauded by many "free market" enthusiasts.

Some of the people who preach this stuff are simply naive followers, who don't realize what kind of "liberty" this program would bring for the vast majority of the population. Others are cynics, eager to use the traditional American buzz word of "liberty" to defend unspeakable horrors. After all, it has already been used to defend slavery, child labor, slum housing, contract labor and peonage. Why not trot it out again, especially if there are billionaires and right-wing think tanks actually willing to pay you for preaching this rot?

I agree that anarcho-capitalism if not embedded in a culture of giving and caring would become despotic. However, communism becomes despotic in the absence of such a culture as well. Think about it.

An article appeared on this IMC this morning. It was plagiarized by KOBE.

Check out this article:

http://boston.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=17165&group=webcast

Now check out this article:

http://www.joe-linux.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=40

The "KOBE KENOBI" article has been plagiarized from several sources without attribution. In light of the following claim, this is ironic:

KOBE KENOBI: "I know quite a lot about anarchism"

He goes on to claim: "Since Mr. DeVoy is neither embraced by other anarchists (his websites and written material do not appear in any anarchist resource, and Mr. DeVoy himself is considered "off center" by most everyone who reads his material), nor is he well versed on any subject."

Addressed to "KOBE KENOBI," (aka anonymous coward):

Actually, I do receive support from many anarchists. I am too modest to place fan mail on my Stop Fascism website. I prefer to display the hate mail.

As for "well versed" on many subjects, false. I am well versed on many subjects and anyone what has spoken with me knows this.

As for considered "off center," since when have anarchists been "on center?"

Your goals are really transparent. First you attempts silly smears filled with libel and defamation. When that does not work, you plaigerize articles targeting anarcho-capitalism in your effort to build up to smearing Rational Anarchism. What you fail to understand is that I am neither dependent upon or concerned about whether anyone "follows" my ideology. I am against the concept of leaders and do not seek to be a leader. I am also against the concept of followers and have no intention of following anyone.

Given that you have invested two years of your life into trying to shut me down and given that you have failed, don't you think its time to seek some smaller goal within your abilities? Perhaps something like getting a job?

KOBE KENOBI did not claim to author the article. It was found here:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secF1.html

The article does not mention you anywhere. It doesnt imply anything directed towards you at all. Perhaps, the fact that you are a walking oxymoron has something to do with the fact that you get NO support from other activists in the form of links, listing on ANY anarchist resource anywhere on the internet, and the lack of support by the general anarchist community?

Mr DeVoy, you are an "anarcho" hypocrite. Your constant waffling and paranoid conspiracy theories have become the bane of your existence. You are not well versed in any subject, as evidenced by the fact that you are forced to rescind much of what you write (due to gross inaccuracies), and the rest of your work is mostly personal opinion...well written, but still speculation at best.

All personal attacks aside, you do not consider the consequences of your actions. You claim to be an anarchist ("anarcho" capitalist, or otherwise), yet you endorse a political candidate for President in 2004 on your home page? The very foundation of anarchy is the concept of NO government. As such, the endorsement of a political candidate is hypocritical.

It would be easier for you if KOBE was comprised of uneducated morons, but such is not the case. Since you cannot debate or argue a valid position for anarchy, you resort to your tired old "KOBE is out to get me" act. What....dont you have a valid excuse for your hypocrisy? Please address these issues:

1.) In anarcho-capitalism there would be no National Insurance, no Social Security, no National Health Service and not even anything corresponding to General Relief.

2.) With no taxation, how would the infrastructures such as telecommunications, transportation and foreign trade be supported?

3.) If you find a way to answer number 1 and 2, can you do so without implying some sort of heirarchial structure which is managed by a "leader" and executed by "subordinates"?

Try to find any of what I have just written on the internet (you wont). They are very pertinent questions, and I do not believe that you are intellectually capable of answering them without resorting to something having to do with your persecution complex by KOBE. Do you dare try to debate on an intellectual level? I dont think youre up to it.

Signing an article with your name and not attibuting it to the actual source is plagiarism.

There is no contradiction in my political philosophy. The problem lies with your limited intelligence.

I have seen you publish this crap before and it is always followed by an attack on me. Look up Pavlov's dog.

Now, Ned Lyle, how could someone have such an empty life that he spends all of his time online harassing people? You are the canonical definition of a loser.

Ned Lyle is the owner of Computers NLA. He doesnt have anything to do with me. I have nothing to do with Computers NLA, and your response has nothing to do with my post. Try to get with the program. DeVoy....or is it too challenging for you?

He just admitted that the article wasnt his, and he posted a link to it. I think you both are stupid, but KOBE is much less so than you are. I can see why nobody likes you. At least the KOBE seem to have some substance, even though I disgree with the way they communicate it.

Everybody else already knows it, except anarchists. Stephen DeVoy is not even a good anarchist! FAILED once again, like everything else he does. He resorts to "Ned Lyle" quips, even though it has already been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the little store in Harbor City was a webhost and nothing more. The technical information was produced, and people have physically been in the store.

Now, that he is challenged to argue on an intellectual level, he cant hang. This is to be expected from DeVoy. It explains his string of failures to a tee.

I have written plenty supporting my anarchist position. Your assumptions about human nature are informed by your abnormal psychology (e.g. you are a psycho). If all of humanity were psychotic, as you are, anarchy would have no chance. Fortunately, most people are not psychotic.

Anarchism is based on the belief that humans are, by nature, good. I agree with that proposition. Those that are not good are either suffering from a mental ailment (e.g. KOBE SBM), have received a bad education, or are the product of an abusive system.

Anarchism is simply the belief that hierarchies violate the dignity of human beings. Is this idea so threatening to you that you spend all of your time, online, harassing, libeling, and defaming anyone that believes it? You are out of your fucking mind!

Ned Lyle is a member of KOBE. He not only hosted your website FOR FREE, but he sent an unsolicited email to me intentionally providing me with false information about KOBE SBM's identity. Email sent to Ned Lyle has repeatedly been answered by Ned Lyle.

I believe Ned Lyle is a member of KOBE. I will handle him as a member of KOBE.

Also, there is no way KOBE SBM is a system administrator for an aerospace company. He would already have been fired for his behavior AND he would not have the time to be online harassing people all day long. Ned Lyle, on the other hand, would have the time to be online all day long harassing people.

Ned Lyle demonstrates his love for hierarchy by choosing the email address SARGE@COMPNLA.COM.

Ned Lyle IS a KOBE. In fact, it is likely that Ned Lyle is KOBE SBM.

Now, getting back to KOBE KENOBI, he didn't write the piece he posted, therefore he has demonstrated ABSOLUTELY NO understanding of anarchism. Since KOBE KENOBI is a member of an organization that libels, defames, smears, makes death threats, and forges articles, why on Earth would you assume that you have some right to engage in an intellectual debate with me? Debates are for civil participants. You are a fucking animal. Why would I waste my time debating a fucking animal?

Email sent to Ned Lyle has been repeatedly answered by KOBE SBM.

I don't buy the "he forwarded it to me" bullshit. The email was directed to Ned Lyle informing Ned Lyle of a matter and Ned Lyle should have replied, not KOBE SBM.

KOBE SBM = Ned Lyle

KOBE SBM is a racist, cyber stalker, and psycho.

Therefore,

Ned Lyle is a racist, cyber stalker, and psycho.

1. At that time, I was the administrator of their webserver, and I intercepted you e-mails by filtering "DeVoy". Remember, since I ran the webserver, I had access to ALL e-mail accounts on it, including those of the other sites which were on the server.

2. I was sitting right at the server when I sent those e-mails. Check the IP. Its the same today as it was then (the same as compnla.com).

3. I became aware that you were sending the e-mails when you sent them to sarge@compnla.com because he said "what the hell is this shit?". Id say that's a pretty normal reaction to your accusations that he was "running a hate site". I was the one running the site, and administering the server, NOT him.

4. How does two e-mails become "repeated responses"? You concluded that sarge@compnla.com belonged to Dave Young, when it was Ned Lyle's (just as it is today). Regardless, I had access to ALL of the e-mail accounts on the server.

As of this date, you still refuse to look at the facts, which are open shut in support of what I am saying, and pursue your foolish harassment of that little store which I dont even consult for anymore. BWAHAHAHAHA! This is LOS ANGELES indymedia, and people who have read your shit and became curious (not many) actually went into the store to check it out. Open shut, case closed....for them at least.

Back to the discussion at hand...give me...give US a valid argument in support of anarchism in ANY form, and show us examples of a successful anarchist society anytime in history (even implied prehistoric times). We're waiting, Stephen DeVoy........

ever hear of native amercans, indigenous mexicans and EVERY other hunter gatherer society? what about the paris commune? and what about your lovely communist utopias like russia, china and north korea, get a clue you useless leftist.



"There has NEVER been a successful, long-term, large-scale anarchistic society that offers its members the same opportunities as a capitalist society.

And there never will be."

Seeing him in person is really quite disgusting. He tends to "waddle", rocking from side to side when idle. He has a nice voice, but he doesnt articulate as well in person as he does in his writing. He is sort of soft-spoken, but awkward. Its hard to describe.

DeVoy? I have actually come within three feet of you. I listened, and m the one who complained about your body odor. It wasnt strong, but it was definitely detectable. Your black jeans are not very clean. Im the one who discovered Nick's heroin addiction. Ask him about it. I have absolute proof. Because he seems like a nice guy and he doesnt have a quarrel with KOBE, we will probably leave him alone. Ask him about his addiction. Even under the influence, he is better adjusted than you are.

time to re-up again you ati-pycho pill!!!

The Armed Services do not allow one to re-up after 40 years of age, and you would do well do serve at least a year. Perhaps you could be a cook? Or a pleasure woman.....nah! Im still waiting for DeVoy to argue a valid point for anarchy. Ill even accept a valid point on just about anything he writes.

You see, after listening to him in person, I am thoroughly convinced that Stephen DeVoy is a classic case of the "conceited kid who never grew up". Im willing to bet that he is an only child too. I could be wrong.

OK, KENOBI, I dare you to show up on Saturday and introduce yourself as KOBE KENOBI. I bet you do not have the guts to do that. Any refusal will be intepreted as cowardice.

Stand before me on Saturday and demonstrate exactly how brave a KOBE is. Introduce yourself. I don't guarentee that there will be no reprecussions. Thus, only cowardice would be your reason for refusal.

I challenge you.

The only thing I have positively to say about you is that you are not nearly as arrogant in person as you are in your writing. I was surprised at how soft spoken you are. Not necessarily wimpy, but perhaps unsure. I really dont like it here in Cambridge, but watching you like I have has given me some insight into your behavior.

Perhaps I will even shake your hand on Saturday and see if you have a clammy handshake. As far as identifying myself as a KOBE, well I dont think Im ready for that just yet. I have been careful to keep a distance for the most part. You might be good with faces. Nick sure isnt, and I have discovered much more than I care to know about him.

Unless you introduce yourself as KOBE KENOBI, I will forever consider you to be a coward. You have one opportunity - this Saturday.

I find it amazing that someone could actually see me in person and continue to buy into this KOBE bullshit. Everyone I know thinks you guys are the most psychologically twisted losers on the planet. I agree with them.

I will not introduce myself as KOBE KENOBI. I will shake your hand, and I will not introduce myself at all. I suggest that you dont react impulsively. At least the police have been called off, havent they? We are more interested in your Modus Operandi. Very clever of you not to drive to Harvard Square.

"Anarchism is based on the belief that humans are, by nature, good."

Yes, the vast majority are. However, there are some who are not...and they must be taken into account. If you don't allow for them, they will have their way with you. And you won't like it.

"ever hear of native amercans, indigenous mexicans and EVERY other hunter gatherer society?"

Yes, I have. What leads you to think they weren't heirarchical in nature? SOMEbody's got to make the decisions.. Human nature, and all that.

"and what about your lovely communist utopias like russia, china and north korea, get a clue you useless leftist."

You think THEY were non-heirarchical? You seem to be rather clue-deprived yourself. And don't call me a leftist; I don't have to take that from you. ;-)

KOBE SBM asks valid questions:

"1.) In anarcho-capitalism there would be no National Insurance, no Social Security, no National Health Service and not even anything corresponding to General Relief.

2.) With no taxation, how would the infrastructures such as telecommunications, transportation and foreign trade be supported?

3.) If you find a way to answer number 1 and 2, can you do so without implying some sort of heirarchial structure which is managed by a "leader" and executed by "subordinates"?

How about it, Steve? How you gonna keep the public stuff going on without a heirarchy? Are people going to feed the old people and fill potholes out of the goodness of their hearts?

We have information on exactly who contacted the police with a fake complaint about the display of signs. We have his full name. We know where he works. We also know about his political connections. Additionally, we have his photograph.

He was identified by a reporter that works in Cambridge. This reporter is monitoring the situation in Harvard Square. He has contacted other reporters.

We also have the sympathy and support of the vast majority of people in Cambridge, including members of the city government.

KOBE KENOBI, any funny stuff and your career is terminated.

There was more than one complaint, and my name is not Vince. If you have somebody on the inside, then there is no way you can determine who I am. If you have a contact inside, then he will be outed and others will see to it that he loses his job.

It comes down to this: You are an outspoken, self-proclaimed anarchist. As such, you are inherently the enemy of government, law enforcement, business, and anything depending on a hierarchy to survive. Therefore, any support from such entities should be considered COINTELPRO, or subterfuge. You are the bad guy, DeVoy. There is no other way to look at it.

Go ahead. Try something and watch it backfire on you.

Im stuck being Ned Lyle of Computers NLA. I WANNA BE VINCE!!! What the fuck is going on here? I wish I was out there, I would just go up and kick DeVoy in the balls. Or at least "accidentally" knock his garbage over. Why are you trying to reason with him? He is a fucking MORON, not worth the effort.

Important post for you at the Secured Forum. Laterz.

In case you didn't realize, all of the homeless people in Harvard Square support us. We are also supported by the punks, professors, students, and many shop owners. These people report to us on their observations.

Two people have spoken to a cop so far. One is Vince and the other is a young white male with a baseball cap and two female friends. In each case, the information was reported to us. There is also another guy suspected of being a KOBE. He knows I suspect him. Let's call it a form of facial signals intentionally sent to him. He also hangs around with cops.

What I told you about the reporters is true. We have also been approached by the ACLU. Several lawyers have dropped by to give me their business cards.

As for KOBE SBM's suggestion of "kicking me", I am perfectly capable of defending myself. I also have several friends that would help me. I have already assisted one member of the RCP in defending himself against a guy with a 2x4 in Harvard Square. I'm not a coward.

We are always armed with cameras. (Remember, that's a keyword from a conversation).

I am far more observant than you realize. I also play dumb (like "Columbo" and for the same reasons). However, I am as sharp as a tack.

If I identify you as a KOBE, you can expect the following:

(1) I will execute a citizens arrest upon you. The arrest will be photographed and subject to audio recording.

(2) I will press charges against you for stalking.

(3) I will use the case to obtain information about your connections to other members of the harassment operation.

(4) I have the names and telephone numbers of a large number of people in the media who have contacted me and asked me to call them should anything interesting happen with regards to KOBE.

Another thing you forget, and KOBE SBM has missed the boat on this, is that blood is thicker than water. Some of my connections are not casual connections.

Looking forward to "meeting" you.

This entire thread has been saved as evidence of stalking.

Now you can answer the questions that have been asked of you.

If you can.

Given the choice between spending my time debate real people in real life on the street and communicating with an anonymous coward, I choose the former.

Your questions and statements lack depth. You are unworthy of my time.

...you have no idea how your anarchist society would provide public services without a heirarchy.

And also for admitting there never has been a long-term, large-scale successful anarchist society.

But then again, I already know all that.

BTW: What is the basis for your accusation of "coward"? Surely you can take time out of your busy street life to answer that one little question, can't you, Steve?

REPOSTED FROM ABOVE (to get the thread back on track)



It would be easier for you if KOBE was comprised of uneducated morons, but such is not the case. Since you cannot debate or argue a valid position for anarchy, you resort to your tired old "KOBE is out to get me" act. What....dont you have a valid excuse for your hypocrisy? Please address these issues:

1.) In anarcho-capitalism there would be no National Insurance, no Social Security, no National Health Service and not even anything corresponding to General Relief.

2.) With no taxation, how would the infrastructures such as telecommunications, transportation and foreign trade be supported?

3.) If you find a way to answer number 1 and 2, can you do so without implying some sort of heirarchial structure which is managed by a "leader" and executed by "subordinates"?

Try to find any of what I have just written on the internet (you wont). They are very pertinent questions, and I do not believe that you are intellectually capable of answering them without resorting to something having to do with your persecution complex by KOBE. Do you dare try to debate on an intellectual level? I dont think youre up to it.

He looks for either a smile, or an amused expression. He smiles very little, and Nick acts as sort of a "balance". I have seen a couple of other people hanging arouund, but they just seem to chat with Nick, say hi to DeVoy and go to do something else. I am most interested in how he expects to identify me as a KOBE unless I am carrying a card or waving a KOBE flag! I think I will report this to the Cambridge Police Department and then provoke an attempted "citizen's arrest" from DeVoy. I will charge him with assault.

I saw your post at the secure forum, but it doesnt really contain anything we dont already know. Dont let DeVoy bluff his way around. Who gives a fuck about his so-called reporter friends? FUCK DEVOY. You better be glad Im not the one who got this one. I just couldnt hold back like you are doing. Id walk right up to him and BLAM. RIGHT IN THE FACE.

I will travel to Harvard Square during the next few days to discreetly observe DeVoy and personally record his psychopathic behavior. I will approach him, shake his hand and wait to see if he elects to perform a citizen's arrest - as he claims. If not, then I will announce to all that he is nothing less than a coward. If he does, then I will take necessary measures to adequately defend myself, using only the minimum amount of force to ensure that DeVoy breaks off the attack. Afterwards, I will file a civil suit against DeVoy in federal court for certain unspecified damages and begin a thorough discovery process that will result in a complete expose on criminal DeVoy. I will publish this discovery here on IMC as well as other media outlets. This flim-flam man posing as pseudo-anarchist DeVoy must be eliminated.

OPERATION SWORDFISH has begun!

> He doesnt have anything to do with me. I have nothing to do with Computers NLA



Liar - I have evidence that proves it



> I will file a civil suit against DeVoy in federal court for certain unspecified damages and begin a thorough discovery process that will result in a complete expose on criminal DeVoy. I will publish this discovery here on IMC as well as other media outlets.



This has already begun for the post I cited.

I have more evidence now too

There's nothing to discover on DeVoy - people know who and where he is, YOU'RE the one who has yet to be exposed, and compnla as a business is taking the fall - on three fronts now.

There is a complete KOBE Dossier on him in Special Ops for review. Hes not a threat at all, so we dont need to wasnt any time on him...we think he is probably retarded.

> a complete KOBE Dossier on him

what a joke !

name - unknown

location - unknown

IP - unknown

capabilities - unknown

dirt on kobe - unknown

date entered conflict - unknown

status of situation - unknown

that's some "complete" dossier you have !

hey - does it explain how I chain proxies too ?

- unknown -

REPOSTED FROM ABOVE (to get the thread back on track)



It would be easier for you if KOBE was comprised of uneducated morons, but such is not the case. Since you cannot debate or argue a valid position for anarchy, you resort to your tired old "KOBE is out to get me" act. What....dont you have a valid excuse for your hypocrisy? Please address these issues:

1.) In anarcho-capitalism there would be no National Insurance, no Social Security, no National Health Service and not even anything corresponding to General Relief.

2.) With no taxation, how would the infrastructures such as telecommunications, transportation and foreign trade be supported?

3.) If you find a way to answer number 1 and 2, can you do so without implying some sort of heirarchial structure which is managed by a "leader" and executed by "subordinates"?

Try to find any of what I have just written on the internet (you wont). They are very pertinent questions, and I do not believe that you are intellectually capable of answering them without resorting to something having to do with your persecution complex by KOBE. Do you dare try to debate on an intellectual level? I dont think youre up to it.

that's amusing

your stated purpose and agenda is to disrupt, distract and threaten abuse and discourage IMC patrons but now you wish to have a "discussion" that's "on track" - with DeVoy no less !

the last man in the world you should expect anything from

You notice he doesn't feel compelled to engage you...

insted you've got me to deal with - someone you can't claim you're smarter than (how do I chain proxies ?)

someone you can't play head games with and someone LGF trolls can't deal with either

aw too bad



you never had an interest in getting anything here on track before

kobe is the victim, now *I'm* the bad one, part 2

poor poor sweet innocent kobe

STILL waiting for proof that I'm ANYONE besides nonanarchist and the handles I've stated I've posted under.

Here's a hint: Just because you and the other imc idiots say so does not constitute proof.

FOIA documents - "does not constitute proof."

Photographs backed by live video - "does not constitute proof."

The soundtrack of an actual TV show of the crewmen themselves - "does not constitute proof", yet NSA propaganda does...

And it's IMC staff sitting there watching the IP's come up as you/kobe/duke post - "does not constitute proof."

The IP lists showing kobe sbm - kobe duke - fresca, etc - "does not constitute proof."

The LGF agenda you posted stating exactly this (spoofing, using false names to make it seem like there's more people) - "does not constitute proof."

And your admitted membership of LGF - which means you are officially a TROLL ON HERE - " does not constitute proof."



fresca blind 10

What is the LGF?

This Hex is such a goof! He is more stupid than Stephen DeVoy is.

a handful of people consumed with hate towards several groups including mexican's and muslims

originally they thought their popularity would cause them to naturally grow but reality shows no one is interested and in fact they had to "circle the wagons" to survive at all - by joining with "kobe" and cross-posting



they only get what little exposure they do by posting unwanted troll bait on IMC's. With an openly stated agenda of disrupting, distracting and otherwise interfering with IMC and all like-minded peoples and groups

basicly the same deal as kobe, except kobe is only the product of one mind (ned lyle) whereas LGF is the collective effort of a half-dozen haters.

what LGF is about is allowing "members" to blame thier own personality dysfunctions on others by blaming said people for whatever they please - with no proof of course - as gathering it would automaticly prove them wrong

so they depend on hiding facts and reality. their main agenda is to try to prevent other's from seeing the truth then filling the void with hate inspired lies in order to "turn" more people and increase "membership"

the way this is carried out is through word games (deny everything at any cost), time sinks (flood threads with BS and sound bites) and discrediting tactics (anyone who disagrees *must be stupid* - as above)

all of course without a shred of evidence - no need - since facts would expose the game and by trying to demand all proof from other's they shift the balance of effort so that people are tricked into proving things which *they then deny anyway*

(FOIA doc's etc)

simply a time sink game - facts don't even enter the picture - it's only a game of getting in the last lying word.

Very skilled in a very narrow area and completely retarded at everything else.

"FOIA documents - "does not constitute proof."

Photographs backed by live video - "does not constitute proof."

The soundtrack of an actual TV show of the crewmen themselves - "does not constitute proof", yet NSA propaganda does... "

That wan't me, you idiot. That was someone else (fresca, I think).

'"And it's IMC staff sitting there watching the IP's come up as you/kobe/duke post - "does not constitute proof."'

Somebody's lying, then.

From la-imc's privacy policy http://la.indymedia:

org/process/privacy.php

"The LA-IMC web server does not track the domains or IP addresses from which people visit and/or post to the sf.indymedia.org web site."

If la-imc is tracking IPs, they need to tell people...or I will.

'The LGF agenda you posted stating exactly this (spoofing, using false names to make it seem like there's more people) - "does not constitute proof."'

Kindly C&P my post where I stated this, please.

Good luck with that, by the way.

'And your admitted membership of LGF - which means you are officially a TROLL ON HERE - " does not constitute proof."'

LGF (www.littlegreenfootballs.com, interested) does not have membership. You do not have to register. Anyone may post there.

Me? OFICIALLY a troll? Cool! Is there a secret handshake?

So, no, I don't see any proof, Hex.

I am no one but me. You have not proven otherwise.

You have failed, Hex.

He's not even very good at what he was taught to do, but you're right - otherwise he's a total nutcase, mentally defective with a short attention span - so short in fact that he can't even remember what he did or said from only a few days ago !

Seems like yesterday

he was threatening to kill people, DeVoy, Davis, Cythia

he was stalking, abusing, lying about being with law enforcement, declaring "open season" and "anything goes" on whole groups of people

now to hear him whine you would think he is as pure as the driven snow, now kobe is the "victim" !

...about LGF.

It has a huge readersip; it doesn't require any tricks to boost site visits. As I write this, the Site Meter shows 716 users on line. la-imc certainly doesn't ge tthat kind of traffic.

The site owner, Charles, pulls news reports from all over the world. The focus of the blog is the danger of radical Islam. Comments are unmoderated and uncensored, unless a poster gets ridiculously hateful; then the owner reserves his right to delete posts and ban the poster. It's his blog on his dime, so he has that right.

You sound like you're trolled there yourself, and gotten your ass fact-checked. You have to back up what you say there, Hex; they won't take your word for it like you want them to do here.

As a matter of fact, it sounds like sour grapes, Hex.

Hey Fido -

Do you consider "haji" a racist term, or only when used in anger, disgust, or mean spiritedness?

Just wonderin'....

Their politics are definitely the same as KOBE. Time to investigate further. Thanks Hex.

with a long *and continuing history* of spamming IMC with his hate posts that get hidden

he himself posts on IMC to draw in suckers - that tells much about the "readership"

members in tactics like spamming, freepering and cross-posting, not members in the legal sense

members is a loose word for both kobe and LGF...



> matter of fact, it sounds like sour grapes

um - prove it !

sour grapes towards a hate site ?

that means I'm sour grapes toward kobe as well - so be it, call justice what you will..

I do consider it somewhat racist, and don't use it myself.

Like I said, I never heard it used in anger when other people used it.

But me, I get uncomfortable when Afican-Americans call each other the "n" word.

You mean, using your standards of proof?

Okay.

I heard from a guy who overheard half a telephone conversation who was saying his wife was told by her cousin (on her mother's side) that she saw an anonymous email from someone she never heard of about Hex getting his butt handed to him in LGF.

That should fulfill the Hex Standard of Proof.

In a parallel universe, one could...

- find the physical location of all of Ned Lyle's machines and destroy them.

Wait and see if KOBE goes down.

- find the physical location of all of LGF's machines and destroy them.

Wait and see if KOBE goes down.

Of course, I would only suggest that in a parallel universe and not in our universe.

is to play moderate for awhile until they become "accepted" then they start creating divisions - get people to attack eachother and other games

this is the "play nice" facet of dave's game - don't buy into it, once it's clear to everyone that he's *only* here to waste people's time he must play nice in order to re-build acceptance so he can start it all over again

blogs have been found where this exact aganda has been described - you would think with 700 people to talk to dave wouldn't need to spend his time here, that is until you realize there's only 4 or LGF'ers left (of the original group), so it's only natural he would be here in that light

nothing better to do

no one else to talk to where he belongs

his real kick is in conflict and childish name-calling games (has stated this openly)

the fact that he's here at all shows the "health" of LGF.

It might be nice to pop by, see what they're doing. They might be caught in the act of surfing LA IMC.

Fido: "I do consider it somewhat racist, and don't use it myself. Like I said, I never heard it used in anger when other people used it."

"Somewhat" racist? What the fuck kind of qualifier is that?

Oh, I get it...a little equivocator...so your buddies can use the term "Haji", as long as they don't use it "in anger", and you won't say a fuckin' word about it, huh?

...fuckin' typical.....

It might be nice to remind them that the real world exists.

Have Ned Lyle busted for his death threats, kobehq.com taken down and compnla audited

LGF hasn't done anything illegal enough (yet) to be busted..



prediction - if both kobe and LGF were gone, the spam and troll bait on IMC would go down by over 95 percent with only a few flakes/kooks left

It might be a good idea to organize a mass email drive to prompt various investigative agencies to investigate Ned Lyle.

...to LGF.

You can't have.

You're just blindly parroting the lies you read on IndyMedia.

"... there's only 4 or LGF'ers left (of the original group)..."

Got proof? Oh, I forgot...anything you say is by definition "true".

Take a look at any of the threads there...and see sometimes upwards of 250 posts, by dozens of obviously different posters. Just because they're all popsting in English doesn't mean they're the same guy.

As for the rest of your ridiculous post, it's nothing more than paranoid delusions.

Which, of course, deserve the ridicule they get.

I think he feels personally offended. Being exposed has a way of personally offending trolls.

Your pathetic attempts to paint me as a racist are...well, pathetic. You'll have to try harder.

I keep getting labeled racist, so I keep asking for racist comments of mine to be posted; no one ever comes through.

Believe what you want; I don't care.

Let's work this out. We'll start in the beginning. Please share with us your race.

Exposed?

Hardly.

Offended?

Yes. I get offended when people who are doing good work (exposing the dangers of radical Islam) are denigrated.

What has my race got to do with anything?

Start from the beginning, what race is your mother and what race is your father?

Why won't you tell us? It's not like we could identify you by knowing your race. I'll share mine with you, I'm a gringo.

I'm just curious why you have to know, and what bearing ti has on anything.

> personally offended

yes his reaction is exactly the same as dave, his words, vocabulary, style, knowledge of events both local and global and attitude about kobe/LGF

this is of course besides the IP's, the IMC confirmation, the things he's already admitted...

So I couldn't have ever been on LGF even though I "had my butt handed to me" and there's no membership - "anyone can post".

nice logic flow

We're waiting. Cooperation is essential. We are trying to determine whether or not you are a racist.

I have never denied the fact that I used to post as "daveman", and indeed told you so a couple of days ago.

So, don't get too proud of your brilliant detective work.

Besides, you got the IPs wong...AGAIN.

I told you what mine was, as reported by www.whatismyip.com. Totally different from what you said it was.

Why can't you admit you're wrong?

We need to know your race in order to ask you other questions about your attitude.

Oh, I get it.

If I say I'm white, I'm automatically a racist, is that it?

it's like sunlight to a vampire...

> good work - exposing the dangers of radical Islam

So "I'm glad Rachael is dead", and pictures of her as a pancake and so on, is "good"

"all muslims die" is "good"

interesting concept of good you have there !

No, nonanarchist, unlike you, I'm not a racist and do not assume that all liberal whites think whites are racist.

Now, tell us your race. Once you do, I will ask you some questions about your experiences. From that I will attempt to determine whether you are a racist.

nonanarchist is dave and dave is a member of little green footballs. Dave is also a KOBE. Therefore, the intersection of the set of KOBE members and the set of LGF members is non-nil. Time to investigate LGF.

The blog owner, Charles, is doing the work.

He is no more reponsible for the comments of his visitors than is la-imc.

If you hold LFG responsible for the sentiments you posted, then you have to hold la-imc responsilbe for sentiments like:

"We support our troops when they kill their officers."

and

"Vote from the rooftops."

Choose carefully, Hex. Beware hypocrisy.

LGF and KOBE are evil. IMC is good. LGF and KOBE would not permit views that are contrary to their own. IMC would. Therefore, LGF and KOBE, unlike IMC, is reponsible for the views posted on it. The same is true for the Free Republic where massive censorship of good ideas prevails and all that remains is the evil.

This is also like KOBE SBM's moronic argument that Computers NLA is a webhost JUST LIKE EARTHLINK.

My laugh over that comment still echos across the universe.

Wow...are you really that gullible?

Yes, nonanarchist is dave and dave is a VISITOR of LGF. There are no members.

However, I am not a KOBE. Hex has not proven that, because he can't.

Investigate LGF all you like. Do you need me to post the URL again?

What a laugh! There is nothing like a moral call from an immoral bigot and hate monger.

no words have less meaning.

"LGF and KOBE are evil. IMC is good. LGF and KOBE would not permit views that are contrary to their own. IMC would."

You have GOT to be kidding.

IMC is full of hate. la-imc doesn't delete comments (which is one reason I come here), but sf-imc and the main imc site regularly do.

It's funny how you just happened to show up, La Raza. I've never seen that handle here before.

If I were as paranoid as the regulars here, I'd say you were Hex using a different handle...

He talks about race but won't reveal his own. He is a member of a racist web forum. Given this, his only reason to be on IMC is as a troll.

Time to wash my hands.

Flush.

> If you hold LFG responsible

I don't - I hold the people who do the deeds responsible, besides LGF is not a NEWSWIRE and doesn't have the same standards as OPEN PUBLISHING of NEWS

hiding under charle's skirt isn't going to help you - you've been ID'ed as both kobe and LGF, with your name and IP pinned down.

charles or anyone else cannot erase what YOU'VE said and done

Someone PLEASE post comments of mine that prove me racist.

I'm DeVoy. You're not too bright. Not that I'm surprised. Anyone that holds your views cannot have an IQ that exceeds 120, which in my estimation is below my threshold for long and interesting conversations. Install an IQ booster and I'll spend some time discussing things with you. I find the homeless in Harvard Square to be much more enlightened than you are.

Ciao.

My IP is NOT the one you say it is.

But short of posting a screen shot proving it (you'd undoubtedly claim it was Photoshopped, anyway), there's no way I can prove it.

Conversely, there is no way you can prove I AM.

I'm not a KOBE.

What is so hard for you to accept?

The one with the funny hat that smokes and has dirty bare feet.

She is a cool chick, smelly, but cool!!!

"I am not a KOBE" said the spider



> I'd say you were Hex using a different handle...

through the eyes of a spoofer

No, I only post as myself, I have no need or desire to waste time posting as other confusing and watered down handles, though I see some people DO - even to spoof me

You are a racist because you find the term "haji", used by the military as they used jap, kraut, and gook in the past, to be only "somewhat' racist, and made equivicating excuses for those who use it.

Anyone who cannot see that the term is meant for nothing but denigration and dehumanization is a racist living in self-denial.

I wouldn't have guessed.

La Raza sounded intelligent, if overly concerned about race.

"Anyone that holds your views cannot have an IQ that exceeds 120..."

Wrong. 132.

"...which in my estimation is below my threshold for long and interesting conversations."

I don't think we could have long and interesting conversations, Stevie. I've tried, and all you do is reinvent your definition of anarchy, don't answer legitimate questions, and rant about KOBE.

Somehow, I don't hink I'm missing anything.

Have a nice life, Stevie.

Ooops, sorry, I mean "Fowl-American".

Sorry to disappoint you; I'm not racist.

I told you I don't use the word "haji".

Is there racism in the military?

Yes. But I'd say it's less than in society as a whole.

If you'd had the courage to serve, you'd know.

Now, gentlemen, I have some stuff to do.

We can resume this tomorrow.

132.

hahahhahahahhaaa

half that maybe

hahahhahaa

hey - why didn't you just say 155 ?

132 is quite low.

In any case, "Stevie" is the name that KOBE's use. No one else does.

You're a KOBE.

Deny it all you want. I couldn't care less. I'm convinced and that's what matters. On to LGF.

Any further posts in my name or any of my handles, until sunrise tomorrow, are fake.

I started a joke which started the whole world crying

But I didn't see that the joke was on me, oh no

I started to cry which started the whole world laughing

Oh If I'd only seen that the joke was on me.

I looked at the skies running my hands over my eyes

And I fell out of bed hurting my head from things that I said

'Till I finaly died which started the whole world living

Oh If I'd only seen that the joke was on me

I looked at the skies running my hands over my eyes

And I fell out of bed hurting my head from things that I said

'Till I finaly died which started the whole world living

Oh If I'd only seen that the joke was on me

Oh no that the joke was on me

Kobe may whither and die, but there will ALWAYS be proud Americans who will resist Anarchy in the USA.

"hey - why didn't you just say 155 ?"

Why lie? I have no need to puff myself up.

"132 is quite low."

Compared to what? Yours? Suuuuure.

"In any case, "Stevie" is the name that KOBE's use. No one else does."

Huh? Do KOBEs have the word "Stevie" copyrighted? Hardly. This is what you call "evidence"? Well, better rush right out to the district attourney! He'll want to prosecute immediately!

"You're a KOBE."

If it lessens your fear to lump all those who disagree with you under one banner, go right ahead. You won't be the first in imc to do so. Rahter pathetic, though. But whatever gets you through the night, Steve.

"Deny it all you want. I couldn't care less. I'm convinced and that's what matters."

Lovely arrogant attitude. "Damn the truth; full steam ahead!" Well, if you're convinced, you really do need to contact the DA. No jury would let me go free, if YOU'RE convinced! That's what matters, after all.

"On to LGF."

Go right ahead. But I warn you: Those are serious people there. You are WAY out of your league if you try to pull your "Captain Steve and His Electric Paranoia" act there.

This will be fun to watch.

Red, White and Blue: "Kobe may whither and die, but there will ALWAYS be proud Americans who will resist Anarchy in the USA."

Amen, brother. But it will not take any more resistance to prevent anarchy than it would be to prevent attacks by a child armed with cooked noodles.

Anarchy has no chance, because its deluded adherents have no plan, no strategy (Note to Stevie: Bumper stickers don't count as strategy), and no historical precedent. They can't even decide on a working definition of anarchy. There's Steve, who embraces Capitalism and has sworn to defend the Constitution, yet somehow considers himself an anarchist. Yeah, I know...must be some use of recreational chemicals involved to rationalize THAT one. A group of people dedicated to the idea of no heirarchy, coming together to take over an unwilling nation? More recreational chemicals.

Then there's anarchy's Golden Boy, Sherman Austin, who got his butt in a wringer because he never DREAMED his calls for the violent overthrow of the Constitution would have any consequences. (Your Honor, I forgot it was illegal...?)

If these are anarchy's finest, the Republic will stand forever.

As you have probably gathered, we are NOT terrorists. We are America-loving AMERICANS who are disgusted by sign-carring traitors such as anarchists, communists, and other seditionists. We arent even anti-Muslim, but we are definitely anti-Islamic FUNDAMENTALIST. We support our government and our President (whomever he may be at the moment).

Idiots like Stevie Dee are not only targets, but they are FUN targets because they actually think they have a valid political ideaology. Any argument they use is easily debunked, and we have fun debunking them. Not only that, their intelligence is obviously stunted. Besides Stephen DeVoy, most of them are uneducated (like Hex), and can be stomped on intellectually as well. Have fun, and KOBE likes what you are doing.

Fido: "Is there racisim in the military. Yes. But I'd say it's less than in society as a whole. "

Really? How widely is the term "haji" used in Iraq? How widely is it used in society as a whole?

I put it to you that if I asked your average soldier what it meant, he would know. If you asked you average citizen, he would not.

Why are you trying to defend racism?

"Really? How widely is the term "haji" used in Iraq? How widely is it used in society as a whole?"

You really are an idiot, aren't you?

There are other racist words than just "haji". That you're focussing on just this one proves you're interested only in condemning our military.

"How widely is the term "haji" used in Iraq?"

Beats me. I'm not in Iraq. I don't work with Army personnel. I've only heard the term used by Air Force personnel. So I don't know how much the word is used by Army folks in Iraq. You know everything...you tell me.

"I put it to you that if I asked your average soldier what it meant, he would know. If you asked you average citizen, he would not. "

Which proves...what, exactly? Most average citizens would not know the meanings of APC, MOS, MEP-012A, Harvest Falcon, Bright Star, M1A1, or a thousand other military terms and acronyms. Did you have a point with that question, other than the aformentioned condemnation of the military?

"Why are you trying to defend racism?"

Uh...I'm not. I thought I made that clear. Do I need to use smaller words?