Doesn't the death of 58 arabs count if Israel isn't involved?

Just wondering.

It's obviously a plot by the US/UK/CIA/Zionazis to discredit the poor misunderstood Arabs, who want only to party like it's 1199.

that the richest and most technologically advanced nation on the planet cannot control, make safe, and pacify another sovereiogn nation through invasion, cluster bombs, DU weapons, corrupt corporations designing a corrupt puppet regime, and $2 billion a month.

The psychopath bush does not care about such issues though, the lies will continue and more will die. How many Iraquis is anyones guess, as is the number of American soldiers sacrificing so the rich can get richer and the idiot president can continue his death spiral.

"that the richest and most technologically advanced nation on the planet cannot control, make safe, and pacify another sovereiogn nation through invasion, cluster bombs, DU weapons, corrupt corporations designing a corrupt puppet regime, and $2 billion a month. "

Beyond the ill-informed hysteria of that post, I must ask...so why are they killing each other?

if you eliminate the police, the water and power and allow the desperate inhabitants to run lose in say, Los Angles I wonder what would happen?

"if you eliminate the police, the water and power and allow the desperate inhabitants to run lose in say, Los Angles I wonder what would happen?"

Pandemonium for sure, but I doubt you'd see well organized cases of mass murder committed by one church against another church because they prayed differently.

Besides, the water and power has been back up in most of iraq for quite some time now.

The quotes are from fresca's comment.

"Pandemonium for sure, but I doubt you'd see well organized cases of mass murder committed by one church against another church because they prayed differently."

I don't know that it's been entirely proven who's guilty for the bombing of the Muslim church or temple, whatever it's called; and, it would not really surprise me if the US G.W. Bush administration had a hand or role in the bombing against the UN the other week. After all, G.W. Bush, et al, have long made it entirely clear that they don't want the UN getting in the way of the scheme for imperialistic conquest and domination; therefore, they're always at least suspect for all serious crimes committed against [any] Iraqis. It's also been reported that the G.W. Bush team was aware that there was going to be a hit against the UN, days prior to when this happened; yet, they didn't do anything to prevent the hit from being carried out; as they also knew that attacks were planned aginst the US, beginning months prior to 9/11/01, and did nothing to prevent these from happening, yet, worse, they aided the perpetrators, and knowingly so.

We still don't really know if OBL and the Taliban actually had anything to with the 9/11/01 attacks against the US. Their guilty has not been [proven], but it's been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the G.W. Bush administration had been warned that attacks were being plotted, and at least one of the several warnings mentionned the use of airplanes as missiles; and, not a single Afghani was included among those who flew the planes into the WTC towers, or the plane that hit the pentagon (if indeed there was a plane in that case), or the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.

The G.W. Bush team is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, but the case has not been proven against OBL and the Taliban, regarding the attacks of 9/11/01, not even to the point that we could morally justify a claim of beyond reasonable doubt. There isn't sufficient evidence against OBL and the Taliban for us to be able to morally justify such a claim; not without some real evidence, which is something we have more than enough of in the case of the G.W. Bush team.

Given that the G.W. Bush team is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, not only for acting against the US's consitution and bill of rights, international law, and human rights, but also with respect to their foreknowledge of the 9/11/01 attacks, and doing absolutely nothing to help prevent those attacks, then it's reasonable to say and to believe that this group can and should be considered suspect, in every case where the team's schemes could benefit.

They're not in Iraq to liberate the people of anything, except of the lives, rights and natural resources. No other claim has been able to withstand even rather minor scrutiny.

"Besides, the water and power has been back up in most of iraq for quite some time now."

I don't know where you get your news from, but a number of alternative media websites don't report mass restoration of water and electricity happening, yet. Many Iraqis remain without these essential resources and utilities, as well as security.

Sure, there are days when they all get some electricity, but the system remains very unstable, and hospitals continue to lack essential supplies. Of course, Paul Bremmer and his crew are not short of electricity and their basic needs; not while they're in their living quarters anyway.

Even US troops in Iraq suffer from lack of supplies.

NOT EVEN AL JAZEERA IS AS FULL OF RABID SPITTLE AS KPFK

"...that the richest and most technologically advanced nation on the planet cannot control, make safe, and pacify another sovereiogn nation through invasion, cluster bombs, DU weapons, corrupt corporations designing a corrupt puppet regime, and $2 billion a month."

Apparently not. So what makes you think that the UN could do it? Or an internal revolution?

Whether you admit it or not, we're the best chance the Iraqis have for peace and self-determination.

And I know you're not going to admit it; if Bush said the sun rises in the east, you'd be on the streets yelling it rises in the west.

The bush lying team used faulty info to invade another nation and create massive destabilization in one of the most reactive cultures on the planet and now HE is whining to the UN. Not me.

As far as the UN goes I hope they are smart enough to force some accounatbility on the bush regime, but given the fact that our nations current [pretend] leadership has absolutely no dignity at all I am sure they will use everything from food to weapons to force the UN into an already compromised position created by those very same inept and corrupt corporate fascists.

As far as where the sun rises I am perfectly familiar with that knowledge. I do have doubts that Georgie boy has any intelligence whatsoever except what his handlers want him to know. And so the death spiral continues...

When will you choose sanity over these misconcieved foibles. Is that beyond you and your moralist quips?

"I don't know that it's been entirely proven who's guilty for the bombing of the Muslim church or temple, whatever it's called; and, it would not really surprise me if the US G.W. Bush administration had a hand or role in the bombing against the UN the other week."

How typical. I knew it wouldn't be long before the conspiracy lunatics blamed us for the UN bombing. As far as the Mosque bombing goes, your'e right..we don't know exactly what group of barbarians did it but even the Shiites who were targeted make no bones about the fact that it was certainly the work of rival islamic groups, almost certainly foriegn.

"We still don't really know if OBL and the Taliban actually had anything to with the 9/11/01 attacks against the US."

Really? You're kidding right? If not than you are simply lying. The wealth of evidence including the MANY confessions and boastings from OBL and his savage muslim lackeys sorta put this one to bed.

"not a single Afghani was included among those who flew the planes into the WTC towers, or the plane that hit the pentagon (if indeed there was a plane in that case), or the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. "

so what's your point? The Taliban decided to give support and refuge to the person and group who was proven, by their many own admissions to have committed 9-11. I know it just kills you to have to accept that some of your heroes in the stonage Islamic world could have committed such an act, but considering they commit these atrocities on an almost daily basis globaly, your apologies and worship of them is very bizzarre.

"I don't know where you get your news from, but a number of alternative media websites don't report mass restoration of water and electricity happening, yet. Many Iraqis remain without these essential resources and utilities, as well as security. "

Hmmm...imagine that, "alternative news sourses (on the internet I presume) say that things are still awful in Iraq. And of course you believe all that since they are preaching to the choir. These "news sources" would report anything anti-american as long as they thought they could sell people like you on it.

Here's the bottom line. Since 9-11 we've been in a war (finally, thank God) with these barbaric Islamic fundamentalists. This bombing is a perfect illustration of why.

""...that the richest and most technologically advanced nation on the planet cannot control, make safe, and pacify another sovereiogn nation through invasion, cluster bombs, DU weapons, corrupt corporations designing a corrupt puppet regime, and $2 billion a month."

Apparently not. So what makes you think that the UN could do it? Or an internal revolution? "

The US CAN control make safe and pacify a nation through the use if weaponry and different tactics. And it can do it very cheaply.

the problem is it would also involve alot of people (civilians etc) dying.

The current method is the "we dont want to kill the iraqis" and the "lets build up iraqi infrastructure" method If the US had neither of those objectives it would be easy.

Who else in history has fought so vastly below their potential in order to save the lives of their enemies?

Here is something to set conspiratorial minds a thinking. An Iraqui friend of mine told me that way back when in 1991 (apparently before a lot of people on this board matriculated) immediately after the first Iraq War, that the retreating Iraqui conscripts who got incinerated in what became known as "the Highway of Death" between Iraq and Kuwait.......anyway these 20,000 or so retreating draftees , who had been left behind in Kuwait as cannon fodder to meet the expected sea borne attack of the US marines ----- well, these guys were all draftees. They hated Saddam. They were en route back to Bagdhad to dump him. They thought they might get some US support, since the US had told the Shiites and the Kurds to rise up against Saddam. The Republican Guard divisions had been withdrawn to Iraq several days before and were guarding Saddam or putting down rebellions in the North and South. The draftees knew they would be ejected from Kuwait but they did not want to go back to Iraq and have to live under Saddam anymore. So they planned to dump him.

They were taking all the loot they could carry with them and they had a lot of very nice stolen cars. However most of the serious loot, ie the bullion from the bank vaults, works of art, etc had all been stolen by Saddam long before. These draftees sort of got the crumbs from the table....that is how wars have always been conducted by Arab tribes by the way...but I am digressing

The Saudis made a deal with Colin Powell to keep Saddam in power. An odious deal was foisted on Bush Sr --- it must have choked like swallowing a chicken bone. But that was the Saudi price for being part of the "coalition." Saddam was to stay in power, to continue to be a counterweight to the mad mullahs in Tehran. Also the Turks were not eaer to see Iraq break up, nor were or other so-called "allies" in the Arab world. Seeing Iraq break up into its natural constituencies might toll the bell for their own patched together countries to disintigrate....

So according to my Iraqui friend, the US air force, acting at the behest of the Saudis, bombed the retreating conscripts with a lot of incendiary bombs. There were not a lot of survivors. The biggest threat to Saddam was his military rebelling against him. And that threat of internal overthrow was crushed, apparently with the complicity of the US State department and the Saudi royal family.'

Think about it, what military necessity was involved in incinerating 20,000 retreating Iraqui soldiers who were NOT part of the Republican guard? If the US military really wanted to recover what they were stealing, would it not have made more sense to cut off their retreat - either with the threat of air attack, or with an armored column - and demand that they surrender?

Whether or not this is true, certainly a lot of Iraquis believe in this conspiratorial stuff - and this sounds much more credible than a lot of the stuff that passes for fact that Iraquis whisper about.

Parmenides: So what exactly what would you have preferred to a US-led coalition invading Iraq? What else besides the UN having a hand? You Lefty shill. When will you choose sanity over your rabid America-hate?

Scottie: "Who else in history has fought so vastly below their potential in order to save the lives of their enemies?"

Exactly. And I'll answer you, even, though the Looney Left won't believe me:

Israel.

Oh, by the way, General Bar: You and Parmenides misspell "Iraqi" exactly the same way. Interesting.

The story as I understand it goes something like this

After the bombing the two suspects, both Saudis, were able to find, in the confusion and chaos that is Iraq today, an internet cafe in Najaf to email the success of the mission, with the subject line "mission accomplished the dog is dead" While in this cafe other patrons oversaw what they were typing and confined them until Iraqi police showed up, who then handed them over to US forces.

I like how critics of the American occupation, and its "made up" lack of security. By pointing out two places UN headquarters and the Inam Ali mosque that "declined" American protection.

"Its all America's fault they should have not listen to us or the Iraqis"

It gets better, what does the UN do after its incompetence is shown out for the world to see. Ask for American protection, or cut back help for the Iraqis? You guessed it!

Why does anyone give a rat’s ass what this debating society thinks?

...you tell us, you're the one posting a response, asswipe....