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Another G.I. Killed in Iraq

by peace dove Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 2:02 PM

If you haven't seen the classic film, "Battle of Algiers"... then go rent it. It's about the Algerian struggle to free themselves of French colonial rule. In the film there's a scene that is remarkably like the following report from Baghdad. Every day occupation troops are being shot and killed in Iraq.... welcome to Algeria... welcome to Vietnam.

U.S. Soldier Shot Shopping in Baghdad-Witnesses

Fri June 27, 2003

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier was shot in the head while buying digital video discs at a shop in Baghdad on Friday, the shop owner and other witnesses said.

The U.S. military had no immediate comment on the report. It was not clear from witness accounts whether his wound was fatal.

The shop owner, who refused to give his name, said the soldier had come into the DVD shop in the Kazimiyah neighborhood in the northwest of the city at around 11 a.m. and picked up two discs.

"He took out dollars from his pocket and as I looked at the money I heard a bang. He froze and then fell backwards," the owner told Reuters Television. "Two other soldiers came in, picked him up and took him away."

Other witnesses corroborated the owner's version. One said he saw a young man shooting the soldier at close quarters in the lower head.

Two U.S. soldiers were killed and 10 wounded in a spate of attacks on Thursday as armed resistance to American and British military occupation appeared to be rising.

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Another young person killed

by Meyer London Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 3:14 PM

Well, it is nothing to get overly excited about - after all, he was, er, fighting for freedom, wasn't he? Or was that looking of weapons of mass destruction? Or making sure that gass-guzzlers in the US were provided with cheap fuel? Well, whatever. Anyway, he must have known what he was getting himself into when he signed on the dotted line; there is no doubt in my mind that military recruiters go out of their way to make sure that potential enlistees, especially high school students, know that they are putting themselves in very serious danger of being killed or terribly wounded if they decide to "serve in the military."

And it is not like it is a major tragedy, like some future yuppie getting killed when his sports car goes off the road after he has a few drinks too many at an Ivy League frat party. This guy was undoubtedly one of the masses, perhaps from the inner city or some dreary suburb that the affluent abandoned around 1965. Hundreds of thousands of guys like him got killed in both world wars and in Korea, but how many people really remember them? And the country got rich anyway, so they obviously were not essential.This has been the lot of the lower classes throughout history, and anyone who objects is obviously a hopeless utopian, an immature neurotic who needs reality therapy, or a dangerous communist or anarchist who should have been brought in for questioning by the authorities long ago.

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That's One Less...

by PaperClip Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 5:07 PM

That's one less imperialist occupier to deal with tomorrow. Keep bleeding the USA & UK occupation armies to death, one pin prick at a time...

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Provacteur...

by Diogenes Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 5:15 PM

...posting above by "Paperclip". Disinfo.

An amusing sidelight revealed in the choice of name is that Operation Paperclip was the program to bring NAZI Scientists into the United States after WWII.

For more do a Google on "Operation Paperclip".

Report this post as:

Yeah, right

by haha Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 5:22 PM

Everything has a secret, hidden meaning. Even this. Care to venture?

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Everyone makes...

by Diogenes Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 5:24 PM

...a "Freudian Slip" from time to time.

I have made a lot money off of people who can't control their "Tells".

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I'd love to hear that story Dio.

by Eric Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 5:39 PM

Maybe sometime you could elaborate on that further when you get the chance.

I think it's terrible that this soldier was executed, shot in the back of the head, by a coward. That's not how an American should die. Not one.

That boy was over there doing what he believed to be right. Liberating the very criminal that killed him. It's tragic.

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Just because it amuses me to answer:

by Diogenes Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 5:53 PM

"Tells" are Poker slang for mannerisms or behaviors that reveal what your opponent is up to.

A good Pro can read most people like a book.

As a friend of mine once put it" If you are going to be playing in this game you should be able to tell, Twenty Minutes after sitting down, what the guy sitting across from you had for Breakfast yesterday."

They can show up in all sorts of forms:

Sweating

a knitted eyebrow

a "secret" smirk.

Lots of little things that added together "tell" you what your opponent is up to.

The way an opponent places their Bet out can tell a lot.

Is their hand shaking?

Did they do it in the same way they usually do when they have a good or bad hand?

My favorite personal story was sitting in a moderate stakes Draw Poker Game and the man sitting across from me and I both decided to get into a betting War on a Cold Bluff. Since I wasn't sure I decided to call and draw 3 cards. I checked into him and as he put out his bet a smirk like a little kid pulling a fast one flashed momentarily across his face. Since I had drawn 3 Cards and made a "Bluff Catcher" of a hand (a "Bluff Catcher" is slang for a weak hand having only one value - to catch a "Bluff"). I called. He threw his Cards down in disgust, I scooped the Pot.

It drove him so buggy that a week later we were both in a Tournament and he asked me why I had called. I replied: "I thought you were bluffing". Which drove him spinnier because it did not answer how I knew he was bluffing.

Tells are just that - things - changes in behavior that reveal what your opponent is up to.

A good player will intentionally give a false tell to catch the unwary intermediate player.

Oh well so much for Poker Clinic Time.

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Soldier killed by coward

by Meyer London Saturday, Jun. 28, 2003 at 6:34 PM

Well, I am not sure that act, which probably involved a good deal of personal danger, was more cowardly than dropping bombs on people from high altitude bombers or firing cruise missles at them from many miles away.

By the way, the colonial militia who harassed the British Army on its trek from Lexington to Boston hid behind trees ("like Indians," said the British with contempt) and shot their adversaries, probably in the back for the most part. These militia men are now honored as heroes in secondary school textbooks. I have a feeling that guys like the one who shot the soldier are going to be similarly honored in Iraqi textbooks a few years from now.

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Does Bush care?

by Ruth Sunday, Jun. 29, 2003 at 3:02 AM

And will the soldier's family vote for Bush? Awol Bush sent the young man to his death.

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The New X

by The New X Sunday, Jun. 29, 2003 at 11:29 AM

ur bickering is meaningless and sucks.

at least use some swear words u fucking dumbasses

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The difference, Meyer...

by Eric Sunday, Jun. 29, 2003 at 9:14 PM

The difference, Meyer, in the treacherous actions you describe lie in the intents of the perpetrators. Granted, there is a degree of relativism here, and I certainly see your point.

But had someone asked that slain American soldier why he was in Iraq, I feel confident he'd have replied that he was there to liberate the Iraqi people. No cause is nobler.

If you asked the Arab that killed him why he killed him, what do you suppose HIS reply would be?

Putting a bullet in the back of a man's head is a bit more personal than strategically dropping bombs on palaces and military targets. I think you're just obfuscating.

And we all know why the British troops came to America. They came to enforce the British strangle-hold on the American colonies to make them forcible submit to rule without representation. Basically, to impose involentary servitude.

They got their asses kicked because they were stupid. Marching through fields in red uniforms with big white bulls-eyes on the front, well that just begs for what they got. I bet the Brits learned a lot from the "Colonial insurrection".

And the outcome of history is the truest meter of divinity.

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If you asked the Arab ...

by Meyer London Monday, Jun. 30, 2003 at 8:10 PM

He almost certainly would have said that he was trying to free Iraq from foreign invaders. And I am not so sure what the American soldier would have said; there is a good chance that he would have said he was there because he was ordered to go there and that he was a little confused about the exact causes of the invasion.

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The New X

by The New X Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 10:10 AM

see, Americans think of the Iraqis as poorly educated, simple village folk - much like their own suburban folk.

they seem to think that simply because the iraqis dont like saddam, they would welcome US occupation of their country.

iraqis do not like saddam. they do not like america either. right now, whether one would like to see it this way or not, America is literally ruling the Iraqis.

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RE: Eric's version of events

by Brian OConnor Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 2:23 PM

Eric: 'But had someone asked that slain American soldier why he was in Iraq, I feel confident he'd have replied that he was there to liberate the Iraqi people. No cause is nobler'

Tell that to his family while you sit behind your computer screen. Yeah, liberate the Iraqis from their oil and culture.

Eric: 'And we all know why the British troops came to America. They came to enforce the British strangle-hold on the American colonies to make them forcible submit to rule without representation. Basically, to impose involentary servitude.

They got their asses kicked because they were stupid. Marching through fields in red uniforms with big white bulls-eyes on the front, well that just begs for what they got. I bet the Brits learned a lot from the "Colonial insurrection". '

This fool wouldn't know history if it smacked him in the ass! The British fielded a professional regular army, during a time when professional soldiers fought each other on the field of battle. The American Revolution was one of the first organized guerrilla wars and helped to put an end to 'gentleman's wars'. However, it also meant increased civilian deaths during wars.

I won't even address the rest of Eric'c BS.

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I don't claim to be a historian.

by Eric Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 2:45 PM

Historians twist the truth and bias the facts. I tell it like it is.

All I said was that the Brits certainly must have learned a lot from the Revolutionary War. Why is that BS? The USA learned a lot from Vietnam, so what?

And as far as a war being "gentlemanly", the whole concept is ludicrous. I personally would NEVER have dressed up in a red-coat and marched over to the enemy lines with my single shot musket. Those guys were idiots.

Now you do have a valid point (increased civilian casualties). It's an unfortunate consequence of the natural evolution of battle. The best thing a civilian can do when there's a war being fought is to get out of the way.

And I'm certain that that American soldier's family supported their son and his actions in Iraq. It wasn't their choice. It was his choice. He wasn't forced, he volunteered, and that commands respect.

Now as for what the Iraqi (if in fact this killer was Iraqi)

was thinking when he pulled HIS trigger, I'd bet a coca cola that his motivations were religious in nature. I bet he thoroughly believed he was doing what all good muslim's should be doing, and jihading against the wicked heretic western ers.

It's also interesting to note that the majority of the Iraqis do NOT share this postion. This can be witnessed by the relatively SCARCE oposition that our troops have encountered. That's a fact, Jack.

Bottom line, if a foreign nation invaded the USA it would be a different story. The citizenry here would fight tooth and nail to repel invaders.

Over there, our soldiers are essentially being welcomed with open arms, except for a few insignificant pockets of resistance.

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Full of it

by Brian OConnor Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 2:56 PM

You parrot the company line well, Eric.

"Resistance is scattered and due only to Ba'ath party loyalists." What a load of BS! The Iraqis, like most of the world, now HATE the United States. The entire population holds these foreign occupiers in contempt.

Eric, have you talked to any of the families of the dead soldiers? Has anyone in YOUR family been killed? I didn't think so! You speak out your ass when you speak for others. Try to keep a cork in it!

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Calm down Brian.

by Eric Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 3:13 PM

It's sort of incongruent of you to sit there and tell me how full of BS I am in one breath, and then to speak for "most" of the world AND the "entire" population of Iraqis in the next breathe. Don't you think so?

"You speak out your ass when you speak for others."

Funny.

And I don't think the resistance is just "Ba'ath party loyalists". I think there are quite a few non-Iraqi Anti-American Islamic fundamentalists that crossed the borders, integrate themselves into the Iraqis, and are now just trying to stir up political turmoil for the USA.

Not being very effective either, I might add.

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Unsubstantiated Alegation

by debate coach Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 3:23 PM

"The Iraqis, like most of the world, now HATE the United States. The entire population holds these foreign occupiers in contempt. "

Unsubstantiated Allegation.



For more on logic, try reading "Logic for Dummys"

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I was aware of the irony...

by Brian OConnor Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 3:28 PM

...but speaking for a group's mindset is different than attributing words to the family of a fallen soldier. One could certainly understand why Iraqis would resent the US occupation of their territory, especially in light of the water, electrical and food shortages. Furthermore. one could gleen from the protests around the world that much of the world is indeed pissed at the US. What support do you have to say that the family of the fallen soldier supported this illegal conflict? Or, like I said before, are you just talking out your ass?

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Debate Coach

by Brian OConnor Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 3:34 PM

You want substantiation that they hate the US? Go make a visit there. See what kind of reception you get. Oh yeah: I base my conclusion that Iraqis hate us directly upon statements seen and read in the media. Also, if their actions are any indication of their sentiments, my conclusion is accurate.

Eric, you have no basis to conclude that dead soldiers' families support the conflict. Try backing-up your mouth with testimonials from the widows and orphans.

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really?

by debate coach Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 3:35 PM

>>BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier was shot in the head while buying digital video discs at a shop in Baghdad on Friday, the shop owner and other witnesses said
unsubstantiated allegation.

try reading Logic for Dummies:

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Unsubstantiated Allegation

by debate coach Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 3:54 PM

" Oh yeah: I base my conclusion that Iraqis hate us directly upon statements seen and read in the media. "

Unsubstantiated Allegation.



For more on logic, try reading "Logic for Dummys".

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don't believe the hype

by debate coach Tuesday, Jul. 01, 2003 at 3:58 PM

>>>The shop owner, who refused to give his name, said the soldier had come into the DVD shop in the Kazimiyah neighborhood in the northwest of the city at around 11 a.m. and picked up two discs.
unsubstantiated allegation.

try reading Logic for Dummies.

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