And after she won the NASDAQ-100 Open in April, Serena Williams -- the reigning French Open champion -- smiled mischievously, mustered a cartoonish French accent and said, "We want to make clothes. We don't want the war."

The backlash in France was immediate. A number of Paris boutiques removed clothing endorsed by Williams and a French firm canceled plans to design blouses with her.

Now, if the French don't want to do business with Serena, that's their business. But where are all the folks who were wetting their beds a few weeks ago over an "assault on democracy" because some people were boycotting the Dixie Chicks for being anti-American?

Where IS your brain? It appears to be MIA.

back to the top

Are you people for real? This is not news. Miss. Williams insulted a whole other country of people. The Dixie Chicks said that as a fellow Texan Mr. Bush insulted her. French people taking offense and boycotting is not violating Serena’s first amendment rights! Bush, on the other hand, is one man, one that the Dixie Chicks probably didn’t even vote for. If Americans can call Clinton a disgrace for having sex. Americans can also call Boy George a disgrace for stealing the government, destroying the economy, starting an illegal war, ruining diplomatic relations, and ripping up the constitution. When will you people wake up?

I'd let her tongue my ass though.

Ms. Williams is unfortunately representative of many high-level athletes: uneducated, childishly self-centered, frankly unsporty.

She needs to take lessons from Mr. Lance Amstrong. The modesty and true sportsmanship displayed during his victories made his name untouchable in France.

Patriotism, what a fig leaf.

So if companys express their free speech rights and boycott the Dixie Chicks, then it's taking away their livelyhood and it's an assault on democracy. But if companys express their free speech rights and affects Serena Williams livelihood, it's not an assault on democracy, in fact it's OK. So what applies to one doesn't always apply to the other. It just depends on which side of the political fence you're on. If you attack conservatives or their ideas, it's OK. If you attack liberals and their ideas, then it's an assault on democracy. We get it now. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

...it's Double Standard Days at IndyMedia!

“So if companys express their free speech rights and boycott the Dixie Chicks, then it's taking away their livelyhood and it's an assault on democracy. But if companys express their free speech rights and affects Serena Williams livelihood, it's not an assault on democracy, in fact it's OK. So what applies to one doesn't always apply to the other. It just depends on which side of the political fence you're on. If you attack conservatives or their ideas, it's OK. If you attack liberals and their ideas, then it's an assault on democracy. We get it now. Thanks for clearing that up for us…. it's Double Standard Days at IndyMedia!”

Gosh, you’re absolutely right. I never thought of it that way. Liberals sure do have double standards. The French boycotting an American athlete who insults French people is the same as American (corporations) censoring an artist who insults American Bush supporters. Free speech is censorship. And the first amendment applies only if you happn to be in France. I gotta ask: Do you have a learning disability?

The point is that both Serena Williams and the Dixie Chicks can say whatever they want in a democratic society. But if you insult a whole country of people, don’t be surprised if they don’t like you anymore and boycott you. The Dixie Chicks didn’t insult a whole country of people unless they were also insulting THEMSELVES – THEY ARE AMERICANS TOO. So it is stupid to compare the two incidents because one was an American insulting all French people in general. The other was an American insulting an American. There are 20 million Americans in this country. One does not represent the other 19,999,999. There is no double standard.

I think there are about 290 million in America.
FWIW.

>Gosh, you’re absolutely right. I never thought of it that way. Liberals sure do have double standards. The French boycotting an American athlete who insults French people is the same as American (corporations) censoring an artist who insults American Bush supporters. Free speech is censorship. And the first amendment applies only if you happn to be in France. I gotta ask: Do you have a learning disability?

>The point is that both Serena Williams and the Dixie Chicks can say whatever they want in a democratic society. But if you insult a whole country of people, don’t be surprised if they don’t like you anymore and boycott you. The Dixie Chicks didn’t insult a whole country of people unless they were also insulting THEMSELVES – THEY ARE AMERICANS TOO. So it is stupid to compare the two incidents because one was an American insulting all French people in general. The other was an American insulting an American. There are 20 million Americans in this country. One does not represent the other 19,999,999. There is no double standard.

Both of these comments are from people who are stupid as damn rocks.

We were told that the Dixie Chicks (aka Three French Hens) were being punished unfairly by corporations for exercising their right to free speech, that their comments should not effect their careers nor should change how they are treated by corporations who disliked their message. So now Serena Williams exercises her free speech, French companies pull away from her in the same manner in which American corporations pulled back from the Dixie Chicks, yet no one is outraged. No one is marching in the streets and complaining about how her comments should not change how she is treated by corporations and complaining about it having happened. It's a double standard.

According to what we were told by the left, it shouldn't matter if it was a leader who was insulted or a whole nation. The point of the left was they exercised their right to free speech. Companys certainly have no right to use those things they said while exercising their rights of free speech to damage their careers or effect their income. That only indimidates them so that they feel afraid to speak out. The message through the Dixie Chicks is that performers better not speak out against the president. That means the message through Serena Williams is that performers better not speak out against soverign countries.

Now you can bend it and twist it and try to reshape it anyway you want to try and do, but the message is crystal clear. If conservatives are ridiculed, then it's free speech. If liberals are ridiculed, then it's an assault on democracy. And that you feel it necessary to have to deny that these two examples are parallel is further evidence that you find it necessary to cover your back.

"So if companys express their free speech rights and boycott the Dixie Chicks... Both of these comments are from people who are stupid as damn rocks...No one is marching in the streets and complaining about how her comments should not change how she is treated by corporations and complaining about it having happened. It's a double standard."

I certainly hope I survive being called as "stupid as damn rocks" by someone who can't even spell "companies". I give, you win. as you wrote, censorship equals free speech. And Americans should all hop in planes to France to march in the streets and demand that French companies, oh I'm sorry, companys, stop boycotting good American athletes that insult French people.

What did scarecrow say again...

>I certainly hope I survive being called as "stupid as damn rocks" by someone who can't even spell "companies".

Don't worry so much about spelling. Learn to comprehend the content, son.

>as you wrote, censorship equals free speech

I never said that. And aren't you supposed to begin a sentence with a capital letter? (as you wrote...) There. So you're not perfect either, right??

>I give, you win.

It's not a matter of that. It's a matter of staying consistent. They both spoke their minds. They both got shafted by corporations for having done so. It's either OK for corps to do that or it isn't. Decide.

Please email me if you need another blowjob.

www.kobehq.com

>>as you wrote, censorship equals free speech

"I never said that."

Yes you did.

"So if companys express their free speech rights and boycott the Dixie Chicks..."

A company "boycotting" the Dixie Chicks, i.e. not playing or selling their records, is censoring them, son.

"And aren't you supposed to begin a sentence with a capital letter? (as you wrote...) There. So you're not perfect either, right??"

No one's talking about perfection. You couldn't even accidentily spell "companies" correctly. You spelled it wrong every single time and then called me stupid as rocks. I didn't start flinging the mudd, son. You did.

>>I give, you win.

"It's not a matter of that. It's a matter of staying consistent."

Actually, brigg, everything is not always so black and white. This is why we have courts and trials and people to interpret laws because it's not the same for every situation. Serena William's comments were blatantly prejudical and bigoted. The Dixie Chicks' comments were not. Serena Williams is being boycotted by the ethnic group that her comments were directed towards. The Dixie Chicks are being censored within their own country for talking about the president. In a democratic society, people are not censored for talking about their government. In a fascist government they are. Hitler's Germany was a fascists government. Is that the kind of society you want to live in?

You couldn't even accidentally spell "accidentily" (in-)correctly.

Idiots like you trip me out.

Go back and get your GED, take a few remedial spelling classes, and then come back. Maybe then, we'll put some stock in what you have to say.

. “Serena William's comments were blatantly prejudical (sic) and bigoted.”

How so? How were they – prejudicial? Perhaps you meant that it was a prejudiced statement, rather than prejudicial, but given polls of French opinions I don’t think the statement that the French would rather make clothes than war is unreasonable.
Similarly, a bigot is “a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who thinks that anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong.”

Do you think that Serene’s statements were ‘unreasonable” and that the French would rather have the war than the clothes?

I would venture that her statements were political, just like the Dixie Chicks'.

Of course a radio station that stops playing a song because of listener demand/wishes is censoring in a literal sense. But how is that different from a station playing songs because listeners ask for them?

People are free to listen to what they want to. They are free to ask radio stations to pull songs they find objectionable and radio stations are free to respond to these requests or not. Similarly “Paris boutiques” (Oh, these are business entities just like radio stations, aren’t they? I thought you were talking about the French People boycotting but the posting just seems to mention French Corporations.) have the right to respond to their customers and pull labels that are wanted. Floor space and air time are of limited quantity in both industries.

>Yes you did.

Then it should be real easy for you to copy and paste where I wrote it. Good luck.

The rest of red's comments are not worth consideration.

>People are free to listen to what they want to. They are free to ask radio stations to pull songs they find objectionable and radio stations are free to respond to these requests or not. Similarly “Paris boutiques” (Oh, these are business entities just like radio stations, aren’t they? I thought you were talking about the French People boycotting but the posting just seems to mention French Corporations.) have the right to respond to their customers and pull labels that are wanted. Floor space and air time are of limited quantity in both industries.

Exactly. We conservatives have no problem with corporations making a business decision to boycott the Dixie Chicks based upon their comments just like we have no problem with French corporations making a decision to boycott Serena Williams based upon her comments. With Freedom of Speech comes responsibility. The Chicks and Williams exercised their right of Free Speech. The corporations exercised their Freedom of Speech when they boycotted these two, which they have every right to do

Once again, the lefts problem. To them, one is OK and one isn't. If you insult the leader of your own country, then it's not OK for corporations to boycott. If you insult people of another country, then it's OK for corporations boycott. Reasonable people will not view this in any other way. It's a double standard.

Thanks for letting me do your thinking for you.

We hate Muslims. Join us.

All of you tell the one in charge inside your head that I will answer your questions only when you answer mine. See previous postings for numerous ignored points and questions and notice your words quoted at least two times showing where you have insisted that free speech equals censorship. Next go to m-w.com (Webster's dictionary), look up prejudical and bigoted, and post all of their definitions. When you do all of this, then I will address the nonsensical stream of consciousness of your last post(s).

Game? Didn't think so.

If you hate Arabs, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, and Koreans, come to Computers N.L.A. for a purely Aryan shopping experience. No funny accents at our shop. Just red blooded Americans.

FYI it's spelled prejudicial. And Dictionary.com is better than m-w.com.

FYI, there should be a comma after "FYI."

But I have no business correcting anybody.

>All of you tell the one in charge inside your head
Hate to break it to you skippy, but we’re all different people.
>that I will answer your questions only when you answer mine.

Okay. I will try to answer every question you’ve asked in this thread. Ready? Okay, here goes:
>Are you people for real?
Yes, we are.
>When will you people wake up?
I can’t speak for the rest, but I usually wake up around 6:15 AM EST. About an hour later on weekends.
>What did scarecrow say again...
It was, “If I only had a brain” I think.
>Hitler's Germany was a fascists government. Is that the kind of society you want to live in?
Umm. No.
That’s it. That’s the answer to every question you’ve asked in this thread. Pretty devoid of content, I’d say. But I tried to humor you.
So now you can see why no one has taken you seriously. You’re an idiot.
>See previous postings for numerous ignored points and questions
Well, not sure about the points you’ve made. But as for the questions, we’ve addressed those I think.
>and notice your words quoted at least two times showing where you have insisted that free speech equals censorship.
I found the quotes of briggs words you made, but couldn’t find where he insisted that “free speech equals censorship”. Would like to see that though.
>Next go to m-w.com (Webster's dictionary), look up prejudical and bigoted, and post all of their definitions.
Okay. I went to: http://www.m-w.com/

And entered prejudical. This is what I got.
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the Dictionary search box to the right.

Suggestions for prejudical:


1. prejudicial


2. prejudiced


3. prejudicially


4. periodical


5. periodicals


6. periodically


7. prejudices


8. prejudice


9. perissodactyl


10. Prajadhipok
One entry found for bigot.

Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1661
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb

>When you do all of this, then I will address the nonsensical stream of consciousness of your last post(s).



Get fucking busy, pal.

"Serena William's comments were blatantly prejudical and bigoted. The Dixie Chicks' comments were not. "

I was very insulted by the comments made by the Dixie Chicks. I think they were blatantly prejudicial towards me and my Government. They were against my heritage and my culture as an American. They were the comments of bigots. And I won't be buying any more of their crappy music. I'll change the channel if it is being played on the station I'm listening too. I refuse to stand for such nonesense.

>>See previous postings for numerous ignored points and questions

"Well, not sure about the points you’ve made.."

Oh well. Sorry, no dice.

red: Serena William's comments were blatantly prejudical and bigoted. The Dixie Chicks' comments were not.

"I was very insulted by the comments made by the Dixie Chicks."

What about the Dixie Chicks' comments offended you personally?

"I think they were blatantly prejudicial towards me and my Government. They were against my heritage and my culture as an American."

Then they were prejudicial towards the Dixie Chicks, their government, and their heritage and culture as well because they are Americans too.

"They were the comments of bigots."

You don't know what a bigot is.

"And I won't be buying any more of their crappy music."

Suit yourself. But millions of other Americans disagree. They have made the Dixie Chicks' album # 1 on the country music charts for weeks.

I'm much too simpleminded to understand your post. I'm a conservative.

As listed above Webster says a bigot is "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices"

Seeing how quickly the Dixie Chicks folded their tent and apoligized they don't qualify as obstinate and hence are not bigot.

they are waffle queens

And you are a HEAD queen.

They said that the were embarrased that the President is from Texas. It just so happens that I am from Texas, and I am VERY proud of the President. Their comment insinuates that they are ashamed that the President and our government has taken action to avenge the deaths of thousands from 9-11. I had two good friends who were murdered in that attack. Their comment insinuates they are dissatisfied that our government has taken action to liberate two nations since 9-11. As an American, I personally am very proud of this fact, and disgusted by the insinuations by the Dixie Chicks. I'm from the South, and personally, I am ashamed that they call themselves the "Dixie" Chicks. The stand for none of the ideals or values that we hold in the South, or as Americans. While they do have freedom of speech, they practiced no responsibility in using it. I am therefore going to utilize my right to not purchase anymore of their music or listen to them. I could care less if the entire rest of the world is doing it. If they all jumped off a building, I certainly wouldn't follow them. And I believe the Dixie Chicks are feeling the heat from their irresponsible comments and it serves them right.

"They said that the (sic) were embarrased that the President is from Texas. It just so happens that I am from Texas, and I am VERY proud of the President."

Looks like two different opinions from two different Texans. What's more American than that?

"Their comment insinuates that they are ashamed that the President and our government has taken action to avenge the deaths of thousands from 9-11."

It is my understanding that families not only didn't ask the president to "avenge" their loved ones' deaths, but are offended and emotionally troubled by the fact that thousands of people have been murdered in the name of their loved ones. Since you are so concerned about the 9-11 victims, why not respect their wishes?

"I had two good friends who were murdered in that attack."

I'm really sorry to hear that. Who were they, may I ask? What did they do?

"Their comment insinuates they are dissatisfied that our government has taken action to liberate two nations since 9-11."

The Dixie Chicks' comments could have insinuated any number of things. They didn't say a thing about 9-11 or what action the government has taken. And I thought you said action was taken to avenge 9-11 victims. How can you liberate people that you are taking out revenge on? I think like brigg you should be consistent.

"As an American, I personally am very proud of this fact, and disgusted by the insinuations by the Dixie Chicks."

See above.

"I'm from the South, and personally, I am ashamed that they call themselves the "Dixie" Chicks. The (sic) stand for none of the ideals or values that we hold in the South, or as Americans."

What are these ideals and values?

If it's the later, sign me up. Nothing like getting the best of both worlds.

Bwahahahahahahah

"why not respect their wishes? "

I firmly believe we are. As well as the wishes of the majority of Americans. I know that the government is obeying MY wishes.

"Who were they, may I ask? What did they do?"

Are you calling me a liar? What business is this of yours? I don't post my personal information, or those of my friends and family on the internet. So no, you may not ask. To do so is rude and vulgar. Post your name, home/work address/phone numbers and maybe I'll consider it. Until you do, mind your own business.

The Dixie Chicks comments were disgusting and unnecessary. No one gives a crap about their political opinions. They are singers, nothing more. And if you don't believe their comments insinuate exactly the things I've laid out for you, then you are brain dead. Tell us all why they have been receiving so much heat for their irresponsible comments then? This out to be good.

And I never said we were taking revenge on the Iraqi people. We were taking revenge on the Iraqi regime for the attrocities it has committed against it's people and for the threaten posture it had taken against the USA.

Anyway, that war is over. We won. Mission accomplished. Get over it.

"What are these ideals and values?"

You too ignorant to understand them, even if I took the time out of my busy schedule to try and teach you. I'm pretty much wasting my time even corresponding with an ignoramous like you. So forget it. Go live in the south for a while and maybe you'll learn our values and ideals. I doubt it though. Someone who grew up in socialist California, carrying protest signs, chanting hate and foul mouthed slurs against his (or her) country couldn't even BEGIN to fathom what it means to be a Southerner.

You and the Dixie Chicks are one and the same. Sick, appeasing sycophants.

Sounds like Bush Admirer, brigg, Eric, fresca, daveman and
yourself. What a crew.

And I to mine. Those individuals you mention, are patriots in my book. They'd give their lives for American values and freedoms.

Would you?

Just what we need, to equate small minded, racist, bigotry with patriotism. Better to shoot a freeper than to suffer his damage to America.

...the values espoused by la-imc regulars would make America a much better place.

You know, these values:

--You have the right to your opinion, as long as it agrees with mine.

--Jews are evil, terrorists aren't.

--It's better to let a genocidal madman remain in power, slaughtering his people, than to fight a war to remove him.

--Hollywood actors have a better grasp on foreign policy than do elected officials.

--Abortion (the killing of innocents) is good; the death penalty (the killing of the guilty) is bad.

--Any elected official with which we do not agree is, by definition, Hitler.

--We support our troops when they shoot their officers.

--Despite all the deaths attributable to Commuism, it's a good idea.

--Despite the dearth of successful anarchist societies, it's a good idea.

--Capitalism, despite providing the highest standard of living for its adherents, is an awful idea.

--Any military action is unjustifiable.

--Who needs oil? I ride the bus...even though the bus requires oil.

--People who drive SUVs are inherently evil.

--Advocating armed insurrection and the shooting of police officers is support of the Constitution.

Did I forget anything?

..my personal fave

Any and all catastrophes are clearly the result of nefarious shadow government skullduggery.

..an American, bud.

Not only are you a sick liar, but a coward. You know good and well that the 9-11 family members have repeatedly spoken out against the actions being done in the name of their loved ones. You spit on these people's graves by ignoring their families' wishes. Stop being a pathetic little coward and hiding your hate behind these victims. And you don't know the first thing about Southern or American values and ideals. That's why you can't name any just like you can't name one good thing that's happened in this country since Bush became president. Care to prove I'm wrong? I didn't think so..

"That's why you can't name any just like you can't name one good thing that's happened in this country since Bush became president. Care to prove I'm wrong? I didn't think so.."


..amongst other things, the Angels won the World Series so shut up whiner.

" ..amongst other things, [none of which I actually name]..."

"You know good and well that the 9-11 family members have repeatedly spoken out against the actions being done in the name of their loved ones."

I certainly do not know any such of a thing. Feel free to state your sources though.

"You spit on these people's graves by ignoring their families' wishes."

The only thing I spit on, is you.

"Stop being a pathetic little coward and hiding your hate behind these victims."

My hate is for treacherous, traitors scum such as yourself.

"And you don't know the first thing about Southern or American values and ideals. That's why you can't name any"

Answer my question then, scumbag.

"just like you can't name one good thing that's happened in this country since Bush became president."

My taxes got lowered and I got a refund. They tell me, I'm getting one this year too.

"Care to prove I'm wrong?"

It's too easy. I need to be challenged.

"I didn't think so.."

You mean, you actually think?

sorry i do this all the time
its all i got

>>You know good and well that the 9-11 family members have repeatedly spoken out against the actions being done in the name of their loved ones.

"I certainly do not know any such of a thing. Feel free to state your sources though."

Sure. Jeremy Glick <http://www.dailyillini.com/apr03/apr11/news/stories/news_story08.shtml>, representative for Sept. 11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, whose father died in the attack is well known. Because you care so much about those victims, you support them, right? Didn't think so, hypocrite.

>>And you don't know the first thing about Southern or American values and ideals. That's why you can't name any"

"Answer my question then..."

Answered. I'll get your full treatise now on the history and current practice of Southern and American values and ideals, thanks.

>>just like you can't name one good thing that's happened in this country since Bush became president.

"My taxes got lowered and I got a refund. They tell me, I'm getting one this year too."

Talk about funny. Wages have decreased, standard of living costs increased, sales taxes increased, and social services (the thing that taxes pay for) wiped out. And you are happy about that little bit of sofa change of your own money that you have been permitted to keep.

>>Care to prove I'm wrong?

"It's too easy..."

Then you'll have no problem doing it. Or, would you care to stop now or continue to make a fool of yourself? Keep gong, huh? Oh well, suit yourself.

"keep on gong" should be "keep on going". OK, proceed with the show.

"" ..amongst other things, [none of which I actually name]..."

When a statement starts with "amongst other things", generally that's how it works.

Any thinking person that reads the article that you've posted as substance for your argument, can clearly see that Glick has an anti-American, anti-government, political agenda much the same as you:



Glick said the government used the Sept. 11 attacks as a reason to attack Iraq, and the "U.S. ruling class" approved the training of Middle Eastern soldiers. He also openly criticized President George W. Bush's war plans and said only elite Americans would benefit from the war.



Who are these "elite Americans" and exactly how do they benifit from the war? Why won't the rest of America benefit for the exact same reasons? What about the Iraqi people; won't they benefit from the ousting of the Iraqi regime?

Glick is a farce. He represents a minute, marginalized minority. And so do you.

"Answered."

Not. Wrong question. Try this one, bud.

"Those individuals you mention, are patriots in my book. They'd give their lives for American values and freedoms. Would you?"

"I'll get your full treatise now on the history and current practice of Southern and American values and ideals, thanks. "

Okay, sounds good. Would love to read what a twisted sycophant from California believes he knows about Southern idieals. I'm sure it would be good for a laugh.

"Wages have decreased,"

Mine have gone up.

"standard of living costs increased,"

I haven't noticed. Seems about the same to me.

"sales taxes increased,"

Not where I live. Actually, they've gone down.

"and social services (the thing that taxes pay for) wiped out."

What are you babbling about? What social services? You mean welfare programs? Awwww too bad. Finding it harder to get that monthly check and block of cheese eh? This isn't a socialist country. Social services should have been minimized or done away with years ago.

"And you are happy about that little bit of sofa change of your own money that you have been permitted to keep."

Hey, actions speak louder than words. Seems to me I remember a younger Bill Clinton telling me about how, should he get elected, he was going to lower my taxes. I never saw a penny of that money.

But I'm getting checks back from GWB! Keeps me out of the welfare lines and I can buy lots of cheese!

'even funnier'

your statement "...the 9-11 family members..." is quite wrong. You need to drop the 'the' to make it accurate. Perhaps you could qualify further with 'some', 'a few', or whatever. The use of "the'" indicates that all of the 9-11 family members have spoken out. This is of course patently false. In anycase you are playing fast and loose with the English language and it discredits your arguments.

"Any...person that reads the article that you've posted as substance for your argument,"

Which argument?

"...can clearly see that Glick has an anti-American, anti-government, political agenda much the same as you:"

Define anti-American and anti-government.

"...Who are these "elite Americans" and exactly how do they benifit from the war? Why won't the rest of America benefit for the exact same reasons? What about the Iraqi people; won't they benefit from the ousting of the Iraqi regime?"

If you're so concerned, why don't you e-mail Glick or his organization? I'm sure they'd be happy to explain his position and where he got his information.

"Glick is a farce. He represents a minute, marginalized minority..."

He represents the minority of 9-11 victims. Ignoring that has already destroyed your case, bud.

"Not. Wrong question. Try this..."

'Those individuals you mention, are patriots in my book. They'd give their lives for American values and freedoms. Would you?'

You didn't ask ME that question. That "Sick, appeasing sycophants" comment was made by some other guy. Besides, how could I answer the question when you won't answer the INITIAL one: "What are Southern and American values and ideals?" Don't think people haven't noticed that you dodged that question at least 3 times already. It only makes you look like a fool.

"Okay, sounds good. Would love to read what a twisted sycophant from California believes he knows about Southern idieals. I'm sure it would be good for a laugh."

Please read and comprehend. It's so boring repeating myself:

>>I'll get **YOUR** full treatise now on the history and current practice of Southern and American values and ideals, thanks.

"[obvious lies and self acknowledged ignorance of economic trends]...What are you babbling about?"

Sorry. Am I using to many big words for you?

"...What social services? You mean welfare programs? ...Social services should have been minimized or done away with years ago."

You mean public libraries, public schools, public colleges, public universities, public job training, public museums, public parks, public beaches, public pools, public recreational facilities, public garbage collection, public sewage treatment, public fire fighters, public disaster relief, public battered women's shelters, public animal shelters, public streets, public highways, public stop lights, public buses, public rail, public clinics, public television, public radio, public telephone books, public grants/scholarships, public loans to buy homes, not to mention social secuirity and medical care for the elderly should have been done away with years ago?

>>And you are happy about that little bit of sofa change of your own money that you have been permitted to keep.

"...But I'm getting checks back from GWB!"

Good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Whoever's having a conversation with the goober writing this crap above, don't even bother. He's obviously some liberal. Who gives a shit what he thinks or any of them for that matter. If this asshole was on fire I wouldn't spit on him to provide relief. Liberals are stupid, they are there to be taken advantage of, and to do our bidding. End of story.

your statement "...the 9-11 family members..." is quite wrong. You need to drop the 'the' to make it accurate. "Perhaps you could qualify further with 'some', 'a few', or whatever. The use of "the'" indicates that all of the 9-11 family members have spoken out. This is of course patently false. In anycase you are playing fast and loose with the English language and it discredits your arguments."

The statement of "the 9-11 family members" is not "quite wrong." If I had said the French have spoken out against war it would not be "quite wrong" just because not every French person has spoken out. But if you can find credable sources where family members have spoken out in favor, I will gladly change my wording. Good luck.

"credable" should be "credible". OK, proceed with the show.

The dickhead chix suck...literally.
Let them move to a chateau in Iraq.

Way to go, "Kobe power." Whenever we asinine conservatives have nothing intelligent to say, we can always resort to the trusty "love it or leave it." It has served us well. Great job!!!

Almost as funny as sheepdogs dick in my ass!

Your anti-psychotic medications are ready.

I don't know about anyone else, but I get all of my political and social idealogy from Serena Williams and the Dixie Chicks.

tell some men! two trailer park girls go 'round the outside!!!

May I drink your menstrual blood?

"Any...person that reads the article that you've posted as substance for your argument,"

Which argument?

"...can clearly see that Glick has an anti-American, anti-government, political agenda much the same as you:"

Define anti-American and anti-government.

"...Who are these "elite Americans" and exactly how do they benifit from the war? Why won't the rest of America benefit for the exact same reasons? What about the Iraqi people; won't they benefit from the ousting of the Iraqi regime?"

If you're so concerned, why don't you e-mail Glick or his organization? I'm sure they'd be happy to explain his position and where he got his information.

"Glick is a farce. He represents a minute, marginalized minority..."

He represents the minority of 9-11 victims. Ignoring that has already destroyed your case, bud.

"Not. Wrong question. Try this..."

'Those individuals you mention, are patriots in my book. They'd give their lives for American values and freedoms. Would you?'

You didn't ask ME that question. That "Sick, appeasing sycophants" comment was made by some other guy. Besides, how could I answer the question when you won't answer the INITIAL one: "What are Southern and American values and ideals?" Don't think people haven't noticed that you dodged that question at least 3 times already. It only makes you look like a fool.

"Okay, sounds good. Would love to read what a twisted sycophant from California believes he knows about Southern idieals. I'm sure it would be good for a laugh."

Please read and comprehend. It's so boring repeating myself:

>>I'll get **YOUR** full treatise now on the history and current practice of Southern and American values and ideals, thanks.

"[obvious lies and self acknowledged ignorance of economic trends]...What are you babbling about?"

Sorry. Am I using to many big words for you?

"...What social services? You mean welfare programs? ...Social services should have been minimized or done away with years ago."

You mean public libraries, public schools, public colleges, public universities, public job training, public museums, public parks, public beaches, public pools, public recreational facilities, public garbage collection, public sewage treatment, public fire fighters, public disaster relief, public battered women's shelters, public animal shelters, public streets, public highways, public stop lights, public buses, public rail, public clinics, public television, public radio, public telephone books, public grants/scholarships, public loans to buy homes, not to mention social secuirity and medical care for the elderly should have been done away with years ago?

>>And you are happy about that little bit of sofa change of your own money that you have been permitted to keep.

"...But I'm getting checks back from GWB!"

Good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts.

You're being ignored for being stupid.

That's never stopped any of us liberals before.

...you can't answer any of the questions. Pretending to be me just makes you an even bigger fool. But don't worry. We all knew you weren't going to answer the repost anyway.

Why don't you tell all the dear readers exactly who the "we" you refer to are? It certainly can't be the readership, because it wasn't ME posing as you. It was another one of "them". That means at least one person, other than myself, thinks you're an idiot! That means there are at least two of us and only one of you. You're out-gunned by 100%!

"Which argument? "

"It is my understanding that families not only didn't ask the president to "avenge" their loved ones' deaths, but are offended and emotionally troubled by the fact that thousands of people have been murdered in the name of their loved ones."

"Define anti-American and anti-government. "

Get a dictionary and look them up yourself. Here:

http://www.m-w.com/

"why don't you e-mail Glick or his organization? I'm sure they'd be happy to explain his position and where he got his information."

You brought him up, not me. I could give two squirts about his "hate America first" appeasement organization. I merely pointed out that he presented himself as being contrary to American ideals and values in that article. I have no interest in a group that is so marginalized and insignificant.

"He represents the minority of 9-11 victims."

You obviously live in fantasy land. Buy an alarm clock, set it to right now, and WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!

"You didn't ask ME that question. That "Sick, appeasing sycophants" comment was made by some other guy."

Oh, well, how was I to know the difference between him and you. Neither of you choose to post consistently under his own moniker. You're like terrorist cell implementing guerrilla warefare tactics. Cowards in my book.

So I'm asking you now. Would you be willing to give your life for your country?

"Besides, how could I answer the question when you won't answer the INITIAL one:"

I answered the question, with a question. You refuse to answer because, should you answer truthfully, your true colors are revealed. You hate America and wouldn't piss on it if it were on fire. You're a chickenshit little insignificant pissant fifth columnist.

"What are Southern and American values and ideals?"

Like I said, you wouldn't understand, and it's not worth my time to wirte a thesis to explain something to someone who doesn't really give a shit about what I'm saying.

But I'll give you some examples. Where I live now, in a small Southern Georgia town, everyone knows each other and when you pass others driving down the road, everyone waves at each other. The community is tight and friendly. The churches are packed on Sunday. We have picnics together after church and social gatherings on the weekends. When someone gets pulled over for speeding here, the police seldom even write them a ticket. There's almost no crime. People don't make lots of money here, but it doesnt cost that much to live on. You can get everything you need at the Wal-Mart and it's pretty cheap. The adults take responsibility for all the children in the community, so when someone sees a child acting irresponsibly, they immediately discipline the child and inform it's parents. It takes a community to raise a child these days. We cherish God, our Country, our friends and neighbors, and families. We don't sit around cursing and bad mouthing our government. We're thankful for what we have and don't want or need anything more. We believe our government has our best interests in mind, and when we start to doubt it, we go to the polls and vote. We don't pitch a bib fit or whine when things don't go our way. We believe abortion is murder. We like to hunt and fish so believe in the right to bare arms. We're ready to fight and die for what we believe in. And we won't lay down and let our way of life be destroyed.

And on and on. I could go on all day, but Southern values are more of a spiritual thing than can be put into words. And I doubt you'd know much about that. But if your interested, you should come live in the South for a while. You might find you like it.

"Don't think people haven't noticed that you dodged that question at least 3 times already. It only makes you look like a fool."

Like I care what you think of me.

"I'll get **YOUR** full treatise now on the history and current practice of Southern and American values and ideals, thanks."

You impetuous little ant, you've gotten it.

"You mean public libraries, public schools, public colleges, public universities, public job training, public museums, public parks, public beaches, public pools, public recreational facilities, public garbage collection, public sewage treatment, public fire fighters, public disaster relief, public battered women's shelters, public animal shelters, public streets, public highways, public stop lights, public buses, public rail, public clinics, public television, public radio, public telephone books, public grants/scholarships, public loans to buy homes, not to mention social secuirity and medical care for the elderly should have been done away with years ago?"

Oh, were those the ones you were referring to when you said:

"and social services (the thing that taxes pay for) wiped out."

Methinks you exaggerate. Those so called "social services" have been anything but "wiped out". You're full of bunk.

"Good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts."

Like I said, I'm happy about it. Don't EVER remember getting any money back under a Democratic President. NEVER. Not one penny.

Actions. ACTIONS my friend.

They truly speak louder than words.

Way to go. Whenever we asinine conservatives have no valid argument, we can always just sit there and call someone a "turd." It really helps demonstrate how simpleminded we are. Great job!!!!!

>>>Which argument?

>>It is my understanding that families not only didn't ask the president to "avenge" their loved ones' deaths, but are offended and emotionally troubled by the fact that thousands of people have been murdered in the name of their loved ones.

If that's the argument, then my article confirms it. It is your job to prove it wrong. I'm still waiting for you or someone else to provide credible sources saying pro-war Sept 11th families exist.

Main Entry: an·ti-Amer·i·can
Pronunciation: -&-'mer-&-k&n, -'m&r-, -'mar-, -i-k&n
Function: adjective
Date: 1773
: opposed or hostile to the people or the government policies of the U.S.

Idiot. If that's what YOU mean by anti-American, then you're talking about yourself. At least half of all Americans are liberal and you oppose them. The Clinton administration was one of if not the most popular in American history. And you oppose them. And for some reason you are against Californians. You have been nothing but hostile toward the Americans posting on this server, even though it is your rights and the rights of people like you that many posters here are trying to protect. If you really want to get technical, this current administration is not even American because the majority of Americans did not vote for Bush (the majority did vote for Clinton though). So bud, you're the anti-American here.

Anti-government had no definition. But the government created the internet, just like it impliments and maintains social services, so I obviously am not anti-government.

"You brought him up..."

And you wanted more information about him. I'm not your mama. You want to know more, stop being a lazy bastard and go find out.

"...I merely pointed out that he presented himself as being contrary to American ideals and values in that article..."

You still haven't said what these American ideals and values are, for the 5th time. Admit it, you don't have a clue about what your talking about.

"I have no interest in a group that is so marginalized and insignificant."

Then you have no interest in the Sept 11th families. Can you say hypocrite?

>>He represents the minority of 9-11 victims.

You obviously live in fantasy land. Buy an alarm clock, set it to right now, and WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!

Funny. I was going to say the same thing to you.

"...You're like terrorist cell implementing guerrilla warefare tactics..."

You really need to get some help.

"So I'm asking you now. Would you be willing to give your life for your country?"

Sure, whatever. Does that make you feel better now? I didn't think it would.

>>Besides, how could I answer the question when you won't answer the INITIAL one:

"I answered the question, with a question..."

Which means you didn't answer the question at all. Do you ever get tired of being insane?

"...You refuse to answer because, should you answer truthfully, your true colors are revealed. You hate America and wouldn't piss on it if it were on fire. You're a chickenshit little insignificant pissant fifth columnist."

I guess you don't.

"...And on and on. I could go on all day, but Southern values are more of a spiritual thing than can be put into words. And I doubt you'd know much about that...."

I think that most of that is really great, honest. And I probably would enjoy living in a place like that. I visit the South often to see my family (because I was born there). But there are also places like the one you descibed in California. There are also some like that in the North. And most heavily populated places in the South are not at all like that. So the truth is you live in a fantasy world. Most Americans don't live like that. So why do you think you know more of what it means to be an American than most Americans who live in big cities?

>>Don't think people haven't noticed that you dodged that question at least 3 times already. It only makes you look like a fool.

"Like I care what you think of me."

Of course you care. That's why you keep posting here on a LIBERAL server. You could always go away and only post on conservative sites (you have plenty to choose from). But you love us so much you keep talking to us.

>>I'll get **YOUR** full treatise now on the history and current practice of Southern and American values and ideals, thanks.

"You impetuous little ant, you've gotten it."

You impetuous little ant, you haven't explained "American" values and ideals.

"...Methinks you exaggerate. Those so called "social services" have been anything but "wiped out"..."

You got me there. But they are all being eliminated, underfunded or privatized.

"...Like I said, I'm happy about it."

Like I said, good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts.

An Idiot: "Southern values are more of a spiritual thing than can be put into words."

...yeah...I imagine there are lots of things that you have trouble putting into words....

...maybe I can help, what southern values were you refering to...was it incest, beastiality or "truck love"?

How can you be so blind, deaf and dumb? Your moniker should be Helen Keller.

I won't bother restating your arguments, as they are a waste of time. But here are my responses:

Perhaps you missed all the polls before the war, stating that the vast majority of Americans favored going into Iraq? I suppose it is possible that you live under a rock...

http://www.back-to-iraq.com/archives/000272.php

Clinton wast the 6th worst President of all time. He's #36 out of 42! And one of 3 to have ever been impeached. If you think he was good, you're an idiot.

Here's a CSPAN poll for ya:

http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/viewer/41.asp

Try looking up "antigovernment" and not "anti-government".

And I certainly don't have adverse feelings towards the government, so I can't possibly be anti-American. And the only people that I'm opposed to are the ones that desire to undermine our way of life. Many of whom are too stupid to even know that they're doing it.

People like you.

You're a fifth column leftist guerrilla on a psyop campaign. Or maybe your just a tool of some sort of clandestine socialist group, and you just don't realize it. Either way, you're one of the many dilemmas of a free society. It's a shame, really.

The CIA wrote extensively on the subject of guerrilla warefare and psyops. And I've read and learned all about it. Read about psyops and guerrilla warefare tactics here (pay particular attention to the sections on "armed propaganda"):

http://www.infoguerre.com/fichiers/CIA-Psyops-In-Guerrilla-Warefare.pdf

See you don't understand American ideals and values and they can't be explained in words to the satisfaction of someone like you. Soemone that really doesn't desire to listen or to know. Someone that doesn't care about his neighbors opionions, as he is simply egocentric, self-centered, and just plain selfish.

Every time I've asked you if "you would give your life for America" you've avoided the question. But you were too stupid to realize that this was in fact, the answer you sought. Within that question is the answer to your question "What are American ideals and values."

So allow me to elaborate:

American ideals and values can fundamentally be factored down to a willingness ... nay .... an eagerness... to stand alongside Americans, your friends and neighbors, to confront any enemy head on before this said enemy can devour or extinguish all of our commonalities.

To be willing to give one's life for our common way of life. To hold up the lives of those around you, higher than your own. To resist the enemy with every ounce of strength and to fight until death the treacherous beast that seeks to enslave both you and I.

This is what the Minute Men did during the Revolutionary war. This is what the Soldiers of WW1 and WW2 did, and this is what our soldiers have done in Afghanistan and Iraq as of late.

The difference between you and I is that we can't agree on exactly who the enemy is.

You ... you're like the paranoid towns-people of Salem Mass. 1692, pointing at your neighbor and screeching "STONE THE HERETIC!!!" You think the enemy is me and my "ilk".

I, on the other hand, don't consider you the enemy at all.

You're simply a necessary consequesce of freedom.

Without your marginalized position, without people like you, there'd be no need for people like me. You contrast me. You're an excellent foil!

For you see, without evil, good loses all meaning.

So I need you. America needs you. We need the flag burners and the America haters so we can periodically be reminded of why we exist as a nation. What our objective as a nation is. So we can shake our heads and say "tsk tsk tsk, what have we become" only to see all of the Flags hoisted up on poles in front of the houses of friends and neighbors on our drives home from work.

We need you to show us just how marginalized and insignificant you truly are.

So no matter what. No matter how many flags you burn or how many times you spit in the faces of the patriots that shed tears over their fallen comrades, and declares that they love America beyond a reasonable doubt, no matter how much you resent those of us like myself, thost that hoist the flag high in their front yards, those that served our country in it's military and in it's government, those of us who, when the Kim Jung Ils come or the Husseins come, or the Hitlers come, and they lay their cold hands of death about your necks, seeping the last breaths of air from your emptying lungs, chilling your bodies whilst you bleat about your freedom of speech that you being deprived...

Just before you go limp and lifeless, it will be us...your American neighbors...that decapitate the beasts that are our common enemies, and pull you from the brink of death (yet again)...

only to have you spit in our faces one more time.

You stated: "And I certainly don't have adverse feelings towards the government, so I can't possibly be anti-American. And the only people that I'm opposed to are the ones that desire to undermine our way of life. Many of whom are too stupid to even know that they're doing it. "

Please explain the connection between support of the government and support of the people. Following your misapplication of logic, German opponents to Hitler were anti-German, Chinese opponents to Maoism are anti-Chinese, and the Nicaraguan Contras were anti-Latino.

Now, you claim that we want to destroy your way of life. Bingo! I certaintly do. Your way of life is destroying my way of life. Your way of life leaves many Americans in poverty, causes the deaths of innocent children in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, polutes the planet I have to live on, and denies me the right to participate fully as an adult in the determination of my own destiny. Given the choice between protecting your way of life while living as a slave or destroying your way of life as the path to liberation, I would gladly destroy your way of life.

Socialists, anarchists, and progressives are NOT stupid stooges being used by "others." We are people that have decided to NOT be used by others. Personally, I look forward to the day when we confiscate your property, redistribute it to the exploited, and give you the choice of living responsibly among equals or starving.

Fuck the FReepers and fuck the fascists. Yes, this is war and we are enemies.

No war but the class war!

You are the enemy to which I refer. Fortuantely, you're a marginalized minority.

But should you ever become a significant threat, you will be promptly decapitated.

An anarchist. How pathetic.

Should you ever come to confiscate MY PROPERTY, and I certainly hope that you do in fact come, I'll have a little surprise waiting for you.

SO BRING IT YOU LITTLE BITCH!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Fuck the left!

Go ahead, pig, make my day.

I hold American ideals dear too. Especially the 2nd and 4th Amendments. So just c'mon over to my house and try to confiscate it you socialist piece of anarchist shit.

I'll fuck up your whole day.

I think the Second Amendment is not sufficient. I'd be more than happy to kick a fascist's ass.

"Now, you claim that we want to destroy your way of life. Bingo! I certaintly do."

Aren't these anarchists soooo cute folks?? These are the people that are crashing planes into our buildings. These are the people blowing up bombs in Saudi Arabia. These are the people that want us dead.

Aren't they just the cutest little things you've ever seen??

Better a commie than a parasite.

Funny.

But YOUR freedom ends where MINE begins. That's why you're a marginalized little insignificant bitch. That's why Americans chortle at the hippies and the liberals and the socialists and the anarchists.

But others of us guffaw.

This anarchist has a job. Keep on spewing your fascist hate. I'll be back after I work. Meanwhile, I will be plotting the usurpation of your property and your exile to Antarctica.

An anarchist that works for the man!

Yeah, get your bitch ass to work. You're late! Sell your labor to me you bitch! YOU"RE MY SLAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"ren't these anarchists soooo cute folks?? These are the people that are crashing planes into our buildings. These are the people blowing up bombs in Saudi Arabia. These are the people that want us dead."

WHAT? I thought that it was fundamentalist Muslims who flew the planes into the WTC. Get your dosage of anti-psychotic medications increased pronto before you hurt somebody.

Because you ignored most of my last message. I will ignore most of yours...

"Perhaps you missed all the polls before the war, stating that the vast majority of Americans favored going into Iraq?"

For the 6th time, I said family members of 9-11 victims, not the overall population. If fighting these illegal wars is so noble, you'd think the 9-11 families would support them. They don't and you can't find any credible evidence that says they do. Face it, baby killer, you are wrong.

"Try looking up "antigovernment" and not "anti-government"."

I did.

"And I certainly don't have adverse feelings towards the government,"

You are adverse to any liberal in government; therefore you are adverse towards the government.

"...so I can't possibly be anti-American."

Wrong. The definition said opposed or "hostile to the people OR the government..." You are hostile to over half of the American population that voted for Gore or Nader, that is MOST Americans. You are anti-American.

"Clinton wast the 6th worst President of all time. He's #36 out of 42!"

I don't know what the criteria was for that poll because it sure could not have been EMPLOYMENT. Clinton was the best. And your boy George, the worst.

http://www.twu.com/pdfs/January2003/Ja03p8.pdf

"So I need you..."

Duh. Without me you would realize you are an exploited idiot nobody. I don't, however, need you though. So who's the pathetic loser here?

"... only to have you spit in our faces one more time."

Hate to break it to you...no, actually I love to break it to you; Bush and the republican right are the ones spitting in your faces, son, not me.

http://www.legion.org/pub_relations/2003_releases/pr_nr_031703_budgetcuts.htm
http://signonsandiego.com/news/education/20030216-9999_1m16fedcuts.html
http://www.vetsforjustice.com/index.htm
http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=141

You can't answer my questions or comprehend my answers. So now I think it is time to ignore you. Besides, I have given your life enough meaning already. Go find another liberal to fall in love with.

U have no right to write that she is a N**** she's not........she is a great tennis player and u suck!!!
She has more money now than u will when u are 90!!!!
bye ass hole!!!!!!!!

"U have no right to write..."

Really? And I thought that the United States was a free country!!!! MORON.

We hate niggers. Join us.

Kobe, That in-breeding never turns out well does it?

I'm not surprised you can't understand. We use a gallon of words to express a spoonful of thought just to cloud the issue. I'm a liberal.

There are many good things that have happened but what I consider good and what you consider good may not be the same. But let me give you one that you will understand. One of my favorite things that has happened is, it has pissed off a whole bunch of bitter, moaning democrat liberals who are going to have a huge political wedgy for 4 more years! This is fun isn't it?

I have sprayed my monitor several times now upon reading the foolish impeachment ideas from these Liberal idiots. Now, the most ridiculous catch phrase I hear is "Bush lied. Soldiers Died", BWAHAHA. Lets make up some new ones:

"Liberals rebuked. Patriots puked."
"Protesters were lame. Liberals were shamed."
"Bush is the boss. Gore lost"

You stupid cracker.