I am very much in favor of freedom of expression, but I am concerned that I see the same right-wing provocateurs and ideologues attempt to subvert and transform all posts into unhealthy discussions or trivial american boosterism.

This issue is a delicate one but I do feel it needs to be brought up for mature discussion. I do not even know if it is possible to block posters. At SFIMC there seems to be a waiting period and so I assume some cybereditor is reviewing material. Do we need that here in LA?

I think the fact that young people who access this site seeking alternative voices needs to be considered. If the commentary borad is filled with vile innuendo, violent imagery, porn, and verbal violence than LAIMC risk becoming nothing more than another trite chatroom and leaves all attempts at organinizing an anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-cop alternative news outlet lost. The ideologues who have contaminated this site and who continue to attack any poster with an alternative view to Pentagon propaganda seem to me to be the instigators. Their aim seems to be the destruction of the site.

I have been an activist for peace and liberty for quite awhile now, and actually communicate with conservatives fairly well, but the waste of space that can be attributed to right wing ideologues for no reason other than to (seemingly) crash the site shows only their lack of integrity and their maliciousness.

I think we need to discuss this. I think, too, I have made my own desires for limits known.

I feel a purge coming on.

This is just the type of innuendo I refer to above. FYI shills, I will not play your games or respond to infantile provocations. I welcome mature discussion and genuine reponses.

"...if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings ... would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority
had no function, and they would sweep it away."
....Emma Goldman

to understand the "debate" & issues we need all angles and viewpoints.

If you stop believing in free speach then who is its advocate?
If you really want you can ban people for petty insults as long as you take people with all opinions with it.

I agree with both of you...it just sux tha this site goes down from bring overloaded by insults and violent speech (if that is why it goes down.)

I write out of frustration rather than procalmation though. I certainly do not have any power to stop people from posting, to ban, or to squelch...but I do think a dialogue is necessary...

Grow up, there is no such place as this Utopia you describe!

Parmenides you are such a laughable character.

As if the left had anything of substance to present.

The left is a joke Parmenides. There is no content, no substance, and no intelligence on the left.

I can understand why you would want to block out the right. Truth keeps boring in on you. Truth is so incredibly difficult to defend against. Truth tends to back you into a corner. So why not ban truth from this forum? That's what you are proposing.

I do feel your pain Parmenides. It is the pain of being caught on the wrong side of the issues. It is the pain of learning that you are not one of the good guys. It's tough pill to swallow.

The solution, of course, is to come on over to our side. Become a good guy. Vote Republican. Listen to Rush. Get with the program. Straighten out your life.

Bush Admirer is on the right hand of god.
Sheepdog is on the left hand.
Let's hope he doesn't clap.

...I did not know you were on speaking terms with the truth.

Go Figure?

Here all along I was under the impression that you were a shameless Bullhorn for every daily Fax put out by the RNC's PR firm. It seems to very little contact with reality. So, all of that Alice in Wonderland Spin was based on facts? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Stop it BA - you really must do Vegas.

...on a more serious note. I have a push pull on banning and blocking the Shills.

The major problem is who decides who is a shill and who is not?

The moment you begin limiting free speech for whatever good reason you open the door to arbitrary value judgements as to whose voice should be allowed and whose should not.

If someone is being overtly disruptive i.e., such incidents as we have had in the past where an individual was not taking part in the debate but merely posting Spam that is not in my mind Censorship. They are not being stopped from posting because of their opinions but because they are actively trying to prevent other people from expressing their opinions.

Someone like a BA or davemoron actually provides a useful service in that they present the other side of the debate - however distorted the rationale may be.

Also they are loads of fun. I love watching their hysterics when someone dismembers their arguments. ROFL!!

But after the BA, fresca, daveman or liar w/o honor
gets beaten into a toothless pulp repeatedly, the nitwits
are still patting themselves on the back at their victory
and back for more.
Kinda like a rolly polly punching clown.

First of all, banning anyone can't be done unless that person is almost completely computer illiterate so that answers the question right there.
But more importantly, why would I want to ban any of you shills in the first place? You're all so amusing and harmless.
Sheep, dio/para and a few others have formed a confederacy of dunces to be sure but that only helps bring a bit more levity to the inanity indymedia was designed for to begin with.
I vote no! Let these shills stay. I delight in training them.

Right wing arguments must be shut down.

Reading one or two will not necessarily harm one.

But constant exposure may destroy the revolution.

..fear us.

The Revolution cannot withstand the onslaught of Truth.

Nor, even, a good old "neener, neener!"

Stop the spread of Communism! Give a revolutionary a wedgie today!

...those with alternate views interesting.

Especially considering it's the Left, mostly, who are so vocal and adamant about the preservation and use of their rights to freedom of expression.

"You have the right to freedom of speech, except where such right disagrees with mine, which, of course, takes precedent over your rights anyway."

Sound familiar, people? This is the refrain from the Left these days. You know, the people who say "Listen to me!" but mean "Agree with me or your'e oppressing me!" The people who don't think that boycotts are legitmate expression, unless they're against the Left's perceived "enemies".

Hypocrisy? You bet.

All opinions created here at IMF are produced to validate a fellow americans point of view.
We may not always (or ever) agree to others points of view, but the constitution gives us this right to protect us from tyranny.
Factions will alway be produced by people that take opposite sides on almost any view.
Banning anothers view because it is not popular only creates fascism.

In the Federalist Papers #10 --it is written that,
there are only two ways to control a faction:
one, to remove its causes and the second to control its effects.
The first is impossible. There are only two ways to remove the causes of a faction: destroy liberty or give every citizen the same opinions, passions, and interests.
Destroying liberty is a "cure worse then the disease itself,"
and the second is impracticable.
The causes of factions are thus part of the nature of man and we must deal with their effects and accept their existence. The government created by the Constitution controls the damage caused by such factions.

Well said.

of course not, thats stupid, no banning or any crap like that. This is a good healthy forum and lets keep it that way. I have really good exchanges with the same folks that put up insults. I dont care. If you want to take away from the substance of debates then start banning, because the same people you want to ban are pretty sharp. dont even think about it. peace

Just ask the Gestapo over at SF IMC. Wander over to indybay.org and post a right wing opinion and watch how long it lasts on the forum.

But for Christ's sake, you remember what it was like before
they instituted the editorial program, a truck load of
garbage in every thread consisting of disgusting porn
racist and sexist spam.

I think you're exaggerating. It did get out of hand from time to time, but no more so than it does around here.

Now, it's nothing more than a bunch of mindless liberal tripe, channelled in "right" (left) direction by Big Brother "nessie".

The forum is a waste of a mouse click. And so will be this one should it evolve into the same massive totalitarian anarchist controlled mindfuck.

What you have with SF IMC is the exact opposite of 'Open Publishing."

Nessie and his thought police have turned SF IMC into a propoganda outlet. There is no free speech at SF IMC.

About a month ago after being accused of being some kind of Government operative. Then having some brain dead nutcase post hate filled crap under my moniker I felt that I could use a break from this site, that the pre-war tension was getting to some of the posters. So here we are one month later and still the duplicity goes on if the hate is directed to the right it is protected speech if it is directed to the left it is dangerous poison that should not be read.

Is our views that dangerous or is your beliefs so flimsy it can not stand up the debate. And as far as the over the top insults there is plenty of infractions on both sides but no one wants to constrain any posters except the Right wing ones.

If you want to look at hate filled crap, read fresca
or Bush Admirer posts.
And I recall the smear campain began right after the last comment you made.

Speaking only for myself, I only give as good as I get. So quit whining coward.
If by "hatefilled" you mean posts that vehemently disagree with you then yes, I'm guilty. But that's the extent of it.
You're such a sore loser.

But after the BA, fresca, daveman or liar w/o honor
gets beaten into a toothless pulp repeatedly, the nitwits
are still patting themselves on the back at their victory
and back for more.
Kinda like a rolly polly punching clown

I agree there is a lot of hate filed crap FROM BOTH SIDES but the only ones that seem to warrant any action from the masters is the ones from the right. Is this fair? Is this proper?

I applaud your memory so lets let every one in on the facts the last time I was here mymicz Posted a somewhat incoherent post using bad grammar and poor spelling that was ignored for about 2-3 hours in a desperate plea for someone to acknowledge his existence. He replied to his own post with a comment along the lines of, “What no bites here fishy fishy.” (Not an exact quote but close) to with I Gave the response of “ it looks like no one else is as impressed with you as you are with your self.”

You then accused me of being a government spy. And some one started posting crap in my name.

Now I may have taken a cheap shot at mymicz but was very mild compared to some of the shots you take at others, I said it then and will say it now. His replying to his own post was a pathetic plea for attention.

That does not change the point under discussion that there is a discrepancy in the demand for civility among posters to this discussion board.

I asked if you were the supervisor.
'You know, of BA and Simple Simon'.
Then you didn't answer my question and we started to
recieve a shit load of animal porn directed only at the
" lefties" to discredit us.
Yeah I do remember.
Are you the supervisor?

No not the supervisor not an associate not involved with them in any way. And had nothing to do with any porn.
Is that the answer you were looking for? Or do you live in a world that any one where any one with views to the right of you must be a government agent. I am willing to believe that you are an honest person secure in your beliefs but it would seem that you are unable to extend the same to others. What color is the sky in your world?

The sky is anywhere between blue or gray.
No, I don't really accept everything fed to me and neither should anyone else.
I'm not against different viewpoints because they force me to dig into things. Upon this facet of my warped personality I am only happy to ingest more information as
patterns show themselves.
I am against vicious abuse, lies and cruelty in the form of
racist or sexist (male or female type) hatred.
I am sure of the purpose of certain entities who are camped
here to act as spin control or barometers for the current set of lies being hung out on the flag pole.
I believe I recognize your posts bo matter what nick you use and I have conversed with you a number of times. You are, in my opinion, intelligent enough not to try to bullshit me
on this matter. All view points are welcome as a method of
finding a path to the truth. I just don't like to see anyone pissing into the dialogue. You know what I mean.

My opinion only:
What exactly is the point of having a message board if all your going to get is praise for your ideas?
If one with racist remarks post why not take the opportunity to show her the error in her reason.
P.S.
Diogenese= two parts
part a:
Cynic (in the sense of the school of Aristotle, not the druken your an idiot kind of way)
part b: Humist... (look it up... no I don't want ot be snotty it just takes a while to explain)

I wouldn't get too worked up over a message board in which maybe a total of 10 people comment on a consistent basis. In the grand sceme of things, this place isn't that important.

As the original poster I think most of us can agree that racist posts, porn, and sexist bullcrap is not appropriate for these dialogues. I must say I am kind of heartened to observe this from the above 'conversation'. And even more so, if right wingers want to engage in mature and philosophical debate on the death of capitalism I am all for it.

The etiology of this debate, on the issues of censorship, is very revealing though. While I did make the comment that I felt right wing ideologues were trying to destroy the site, I will and I do stand corrected. It would seem that the glitches were due to technical stuff rather than an overburdening of the server. It is kind of funny to see all the conservatives playing the "It wasn't me....It was him!" game, so much like a bunch of sixth graders, as regards to posting irrelevant provocations and insults. The prevarications, the mindless mendacious justifications for the souring of the American experiment into a corporate death state are easy to refute, and that in my opinion, is the praxis of this website.

The right-wingers must also agree that federal provocateurs are monitoring this site and actively engaged in surveillance and probably disinformation (psyops), to ignore this phenomenon is to ignore the past 55 years of an out-of-control security state.

And, lastly, aside from the last few posts there was active and meaningful dialogue going on about the shaping of this 'conversation' that I think we should continue and perhaps revisit from time to time. In the pre-WW1 flying days, German and British pilots were playfully throw bottles and other jetsam at each other. In August of 1914 (?) of course that changed into a brutal slaughter. Of course in our modern world no such levity is allowed to exist on the corporate killing grounds, everything is done with cold logic of a machine..."a gaze blank and pitiless as the sun."

My opinion in the end is of no great consequence but I hope it has sparked a little bit of consciousness in all of us. We are, after all, all citizens of the same nation. Banter is ok, death threats, racism and sexism

Banter is ok, death threats, racism and sexism is not.

"The right-wingers must also agree that federal provocateurs are monitoring this site and actively engaged in surveillance and probably disinformation (psyops), to ignore this phenomenon is to ignore the past 55 years of an out-of-control security state."

To believe in this phenomonon is a manifestation of the overblown sense of this dump's importance.

You will now see this post as proof of your theory; if it were untrue, why would I ridicule it?

But if it were true, why would I lend it credence in your eyes by ridiculing it?

"Banter is ok, death threats, racism and sexism is not."

I heartily agree.

mek= methyl ethel keytone?
M.L.D.= monkey laughing drugs? more laundered dollars?
my little dog? many lights divine? Molybdenum?
Humist?
Don't know what it is. Neither does the dictionary.
Neither does any search engine.
Did you mean humanist? Or does Diogenes rate an entirely
new word to describe him?
Is my dictionary ( Webster Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language ) too small, search engines with too little
horse powe?!? Don't make me go CRAZY!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAsobHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh! Sorry.

Bend over, you assclown.

Oh dear, now you want to "put it to me" after I've
done this huge list of perversions to you?
Sorry, just get the 76 cents I've left for you on the
motel room dresser and get out.

Blow me, you head queen.

You can't make me.
p.s. your strap on, I believe is the reason you are having
so much trouble walking and the reason you can't find it.

cracker ass cracker, what the hell, i can write whatever i want, and if it affects you then you take your computer screen too seriously. Im as left as they come, but ive got a strong right arm.

If you are into racism than you are a troglodyte...not a leftist. Go back under your rocks.

If you're a racist, we welcome you to our site:

www.kobehq.com

Or ours - as long as you hate them damn hebrews.

www.palsolidarity.org

Don't ask us about those missing Rachel Corey photos. Er, I mean, what missing Rachel Corey photos?

If you want to see all Muslims wiped off the face of the Earth, please visit:

www.adl.org

If you really think im racist then your dum.

Let's see now......
I have in front of me
The Crowd Management and Civil Disobedience Guidelines
as published by
the California Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST)
March 2003
and it states.......on page 17
under the subheading reading
"Information Guide--Protester tactic--Trends--Techniques"
at the top of the right hand column it states

"Use of Internet planning, coordination, and control (Independent Media)"

A humist is a a student of David Hume. although David Hume was a a philosopher that came about several hundred years after Diogenese, the root of his philosophy could be attributed to just about ever student of philos since Plato. I apologies.

Sorry forgot to answer your first question.

Diogenes live in the 4 th century BC

David Hume lived in the 18 th century AD.

thats about 2200 years apart.

Ha thanks pal.
Okay the post was at most 15 lines I'm convinced you could have read it in its entirety before commenting
The point was...
When One uses the handle "Diogenese" One should really have an idea of what they are speaking about.
That thus implies, as the greatest philosophical minds of today are unable to prove we exist (be careful before quoting Decartes [see Hume {And for all those out there willing to read more then the first 2 lines of a 15 line post see also Wittgenstein}]), that one should carry a certain amount of relativity when One is speaking, especially when One uses the handle Diogenese.
.
.
.
Once again just my opinion.

"Use of Internet planning, coordination, and control (Independent Media)"

That's a far cry from The Man coming in here to post disinformation, as those with rightist politics are frequently accused of doing.

Do you honestly think that anone changes their opinions based on what they read on the Internet? Only if they wanted to change their mind. Everybody else only looks for information confirming their original beliefs.

People come to Indymedia to get their suspicions confirmed, to get angry, to have a few laughs, to insult people for no reason.

Many people here get upset because others refuse to change their minds, no matter how "reasonable" or "convincing" the information they present. I'm guilty of that, too. The trouble is, we all have different ideas of what's reasonable and convincing. Then this disagreement devolves into insults, and then the obligatory filth (is it in the bylaws, or something?) from cowardly impersonators shows up. That gets just plain boring, soaks up bandwidth, and doesn't help Indymedia's reputation one whit.

We all debate (well, argue, actually) like we think the other guy will change his mind. That ain't gonna happen. The solution? I dunno. Perhaps just a calm presentation of the point, and an acceptance of the other guy's side. And enough of the "You disagree with me? You're an idiot!" nonsense.

IMHO.

I'm not saying that I have direct evidence of disinformation
regarding intellegence agencies and postings on Indymedia
the POST booklet was designed to show viewers
>>>>> that they ARE monitoring Indymedia....
WHy would they need to montior it?
And the government would NEVER resort to posting irrelevancies
or other things to discredit a writers opinion.
Everhear of COINTEL PRO?
I know its "just a stupid left wing conspiracy theory"
BUT
Similar measures were used in the 1960s as part of a secret FBI program known as "COINTELPRO."
COINTELPRO was later exposed and officially ended. But the evidence shows that it actually persisted and that clandestine operations to discredit and disrupt opposition movements have become an institutional feature of national and local government in the US.

well dave man
its nice to be able to speak for ALL visitors of Indymedia
but you are wrong.
You could say most, some , or a few,
but all?
Are you a mind reader?
Never learned anything from Indymedia?
Not one thing?
What a shame.
-In the Southwest, paid informers infiltrate the church services, Bible classes and support networks of clergy and lay workers giving sanctuary to refugees from El Salvador and Guatamala.

-In Alabama, elderly Black people attempting for the first time to exercise their right to vote are interrogated by FBI agents and hauled before federal grand juries hundreds of miles from their homes.

-In New England, a former CIA case officer cites examples from his own past work to warn college students of efforts by undercover operatives to misdirect and discredit protests against South African and US racism.

-In the San Francisco Bay Area, activists planning anti-nuclear civil disobedience learn that their meetings have been infiltrated by the US Navy.

-In Detroit, Seattle, and Philadelphia, in Cambridge, MA, Berkeley,CA., Phoenix, AR., and Washington, DC., churches and organizations opposing US policies in Central America report obviously political break-ins in which important papers are stolen or damaged, while money and valuables are left untouched. License plates on a car spotted fleeing one such office have been traced to the US National Security Agency.

-In Puerto Rico, Texas and Massachusetts, labor leaders, community organizers, writers and editors who advocate Puerto Rican independence are branded by the FBI as "terrorists," brutally rounded-up in the middle of the night, held incommunicado for days and then jailed under new preventive detention laws.

You need to take your old Vet buddies out for a round of Budweisers.

If the Feds are actually monitoring this crap-hole, they're probably busting a gut from laughing at you idiotic liberals so hard.

When this place was conceived, the obvious subject of "paradox" was never part of the equation. They wanted a place where they could openly reinforce their beliefs and stroke their own egos (as liberals need to be able to do) and be able to plan events, yet with it on the web, it's there for everyone to read, including law enforcement. So while you have this new and wonderous mechanism to use to get out the word, it can also be used by those to whom you are opposed.

Could this site be monitered? Sure. Could they use it to track down those who post on here? Sure. But why would you want to post anything on here that you're not willing to say and/or defend in public? I wouldn't. Either you believe in what you are saying and are willing to do what it takes to make it come to fruitiation or you're not. So you got nothing to worry about.

Ban them, hell we need to see what the spin
being sprayed at us will be.
We are ‘irrelevant’ and therefore obscure. HaHa
Then why so much man hours devoted to disruption?

Okay, who here has changed their minds because of information presented at Indymedia?

Anyone?

Anyone?

You're right though...it's presumptuous of me to speak for everyone here. Let me revise my statement...

"The vast majority of [p]eople come to Indymedia to get their suspicions confirmed, to get angry, to have a few laughs, to insult people for no reason."

Happy now?

No, I haven't learned anything at Indymedia...as cutting edge as you seem to think it is, it's just a rehash of stuff I've heard elsewhere before. Nothing to see here, folks...move along.

I have no doubt that there are some COINTELPRO-type operations going on. I dispute that there are any here, other than the protest activity monitoring. (BTW, if you guys wanted to keep that stuff secret, you probably shouldn't post it on the internet.)

I have.

Before IMC I just thought liberals were misguided. Now, I think they're ignoramuses.

spread em thin

Plain and simple. I think it was Simon that said this is the best form of free entertainment on the internet.

"We are ‘irrelevant’ and therefore obscure. HaHa
Then why so much man hours devoted to disruption?"

Uh...just because we think it's fun?

Seriously, though...I can't speak for everyone (as has been pointed out to me), but I'm not here for any other reason than to have fun. It gets kinda slow at work sometimes, so what say we head over to Indymedia and toss a rock into the hornet's nest? Yay!

You may think all of us who disagree with the leftist propaganda presented here are paid government agents if you like....whatever gets you through the day. You can have your little "rebel" fantasies and think our opposition somehow lends credence to your position.

You go right ahead.

I will be one to defend you, Caveman...I know you are not one of the paid shills...

...you're just too fuckin' stupid for anyone to pay you for what you shit around here...

You and the liar w/o honor are both geting your paycheck from uncle sugar. 24/7, with a month off paid.

Can you get fired from the Air Force for being an idiot....

...or do they just promote you?

So come on, come clean, there are benefits to sucking up, aren't there? Promotions, work detail relief? Come on troops, don't blow smoke up my ass.

KFC: I don't tell you how to collect unemployment and drink beer; don't tell me how to do my job.

Sheepdip:
Nope. I don't log my time. As long as my assigned duties are complete (and those have nothing to do with Indymedia, no matter what your fevered imagination may tell you), my time is my own.

Like I said, I come here for the fun of it. It's a target-rich environment.

Caveman: "don't tell me how to do my job. "

What the fuck are you talking about? You don't have a goddamn job! You're a fuckin' parasite.

I, on the other hand make loads of money doing a job I love, get the opportunity to travel the world and still find time to piss on dipshits like you.

"I, on the other hand make loads of money doing a job I love, get the opportunity to travel the world and still find time to piss on dipshits like you."

Me too.

Caveman: "don't tell me how to do my job. "

What the fuck are you talking about? You don't have a goddamn job! You're a fuckin' parasite.

I, on the other hand make loads of money doing a job I love, get the opportunity to travel the world and still find time to piss on dipshits like you.

I am an asshatted clown who loves making an idiot out of myself.

>I, on the other hand make loads of money doing a job I love....

If you're not clearing $300K/month, you're making pocket change compared to me.

This place is a boatload of laughs. But it does get a bit cryptic at times. Hey sheepburger, wanna explain this one:

"You and the liar w/o honor are both geting your paycheck from uncle sugar. 24/7, with a month off paid."

Who exactly is the dishonorable liar? Those voices in your head must be getting louder. Get back on those meds.

I did not post the above comment.

Is your name really Eric? Mine is. I'll tell you what, since I don't want to share it with you, I'll concede it too you. From now on, you're Eric. I'll post under a different name. Maybe many, many different names.
So there. You win.

i make a million dollars an hour flying from country to country all day. My penis is really massive too. My dad can beat up your dad. blah blah blah. are you kidding me?

that anyone posting bullcrap on IMC makes 300k monthly. SSI doesn't pay that well.

Hate to dissapoint you, but like the commercial says, I made my money the old fashioned way, I inherited it.

and choose to spend your days trolling an internet web forum? That's pretty pathetic. You should be glad someone died and left you a landfall, because your imagination sure isn't going to earn you a penny.

Sounds like a waste of perfectly good cash to me.

"so you make 300k monthly and choose to spend your days trolling an internet web forum?"

I never said that but if you want to believe it go right ahead. Your imigination being the same as the truth hasn't stopped you before.

What color is the sky in your little world? In the REAL world, it's blue.

It's only blue because someone in the past had pointed out a particular shade to you and told you that the particular shade you are looking at is called "blue". If they had told you it was called "orange", you would have said the sky was orange. It's blue because you were told it was blue.

Think outside the box.

Tell me, what color is the sky in YOUR world? You don't seem to be living in the real world.

I don't care what you think or even IF you think. I can afford not to.

Next.

Let me know if you decide to come back down to Earth. Your shemale boyfriend misses you.

blue and orange are merely names for specific frequencies of light in the visible spectrum. Regardless of of what you "call" them, their boundaries are still very specifically defined.

See, this sort of liberal blather about "thinking outside the box" is exactly what I so frequently harp on you bozos about. You call take "day" and rename it "night" and think you should be given special status for your brilliance, when in reality it's idiocy. Or more specifically, liberalist dementia.

I am a conservative, you idiot.

you don't know the difference between blue and orange, and you call me an idiot.

Call yourself whatever you like. Your thought patterns mimick that of a liberal, what with all that "thinking outside the box" malarky. Unlike you, I call a spade a spade, I don't try to rename it.

And you, Mr $pade, are a liberal.

And you, Eric, are an imbecile.

imbecile must equate to genius, what with all that "thinking outside the box" you do. Thanks for the compliment.

I think your an imbecile too.

"I think your an imbecile too."

It's YOU'RE, you dolt. AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! And you think you're a genius! AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I appreciate it. Really I do. But it was you who called me a genius. I merely stated that I thought you are an imbecile (in the denotative sense, not "out of the box").

While we're on the subject, perhaps you could explain the difference between "who" and "whom" for me. I've always had trouble with that one. Oh yes, and comma usage is another thing I have trouble with (not to mention, ending sentences with prepositions. Is that okay these days?). Perhaps my new found pedagogue can take time out of his (or her) busy schedule to "school" me.

Please master.

Enroll in a remedial grammar course, you ignoramus. I've got better things to do than teaching children.

This wasn't my post:
so you make 300k monthly
by Sheepdog • Wednesday April 30, 2003 12:02 PM

and choose to spend your days trolling an internet web forum? That's pretty
pathetic. You should be glad someone died and left you a landfall, because your
imagination sure isn't going to earn you a penny.

Sounds like a waste of perfectly good cash to me
***
however much money you make, it never effects your
worth, only your wealth.

I did not post the above comment.

Me neither.

Wasn't me.

Hmmmm.......
Nothing youve read here changed your mind?
If you read your comment at the top of the
postings monday april 28th

YOU say"
"The right-wingers must also agree that federal provocateurs are monitoring this site and actively engaged in surveillance and probably disinformation (psyops), to ignore this phenomenon is to ignore the past 55 years of an out-of-control security state."
==To believe in this phenomonon is a manifestation of the overblown sense of this dump's importance.==
You will now see this post as proof of your theory; if it were untrue, why would I ridicule it?
==But if it were true, why would I lend it credence in your eyes by ridiculing it?==

THEN LATER IN THE POSTINGS YOU SAY WED april 30th
(you change now ,not to deny my posting of the site being monitored)
That's a far cry from The Man coming in here to post disinformation, as those with rightist politics are frequently accused of doing.

THEN YOU SAY LATER IN THE POSTINGS wed april 30th
==I have no doubt that there are some COINTELPRO-type operations going on.==
I dispute that there are any here, ==other than the protest activity monitoring==. (BTW, if you guys wanted to keep that stuff secret, you probably shouldn't post it on the internet.)

YOU CHANGED YOUR VIEW FROM
ESSENTIALLY..
NO POLICE/GOVERMENT AGENCIES MONITOR THIS SITE CUZ ITS A "RAG"
TO
WELL, THEY PROBABLY MONITOR IT, BUT THEY DONT POST "DISINFORMATION"
TO
I HAVE NO DOUBT THERE ARE SOME -COINTEL PRO TYPE OPERATIONS GOING ON HERE
HOW did you come to this conclusion?
Somthing you read on Indymedia?
Somthing you LEARNED ON indymedia?

You didn't see me.

Nobody saw me.

You can't prove anything.

What difference does it make if this forum is being monitored? Do you have something to hide? Are you in violation of your probabtion?? Are you an illegal immigrant or is your VISA expired? For Christ's sake, are you just a paronoid delusional? Who fucking cares!

The above four posts are mine. I'm mentally unstable.

I know it was a fascist right wing TROLL
attempting his own
COINTEL PRO
operation.................

I'm a member of KOBE. Who is KOBE? Well, we're a fascist cabal who want to see Muslims exterminated from the face of the Earth.

and just like Sgt. Shultz, I know nothing.

and I didn't post this either.

Instead of being a TROLL........

WHy you go home...

and finish fucking your mother?

Because my mommy doesn't love me anymore.

KKKOBE FASCIST,she never did.

Unfortunately I am unable to comment on the preceding statements as my comments might compromise the ignorance which protects our lives.... Boy, oh boy if that didn't sound egotistical.
...
just my opinion

Perhaps I did learn a little something (apart from the extent of the paranoia around here, that is).

Sure, I expect the local PDs monitor for protest activity. I have no problem with that, either. But when I said, "I have no doubt that there are some COINTELPRO-type operations going on", I meant in the whole country, not Indymedia. I never said "going on here", as your own C&P of my comments shows.

If this were truly the ploice state you people claim, Indymedia wouldn't be trolled or disinformed, it would be shut down. There are only a limited number of Feds, and far more dangerous nutcases out there than the foks at Indymedia, their little revolutionary fantasies notwithstanding.

I also learned something else: you spent an awful lot of time working hard to prove a very minor point...which I concede to you.

But did I change my whole political viewpoint? No.

Thanks for admitting defeat.
The "minor point" (that you seem to think)
Was proving you to be a hypocrite.

Big deal.

You call me a hypocrite?

Again, big deal.

What have YOU learned form Indymedia? What opinions of yours have changed?

How do you justify this mutual-admiration society?

Yes, we do monitor this website. We know everything about every one of you. And systemfailure, we just put a check-mark by your name.

Do you honestly think that anone changes their opinions based on what they read on the Internet? Only if they wanted to change their mind. .

We all debate (well, argue, actually) like we think the other guy will change his mind. That ain't gonna happen.

You wrote it....not me.

and
Yes, I have changed a few viewpoints on different issues by reading different posts here on
Indymedia.
ps
Have you seen your dog, Goliath, around lately?

Then come and get me.
I am very capable of defending myself
unarmed
and
armed.
And I will stand up for my constitutional rights.
Until death.

Wow. You changed your mind.

There's a cookie in the mail for you.

Was is something radical? Did you agree with, for instance, Bush Admirer?

I expect you merely exchanged one shade of gray for another.

error

If it was for the invention of keyboards the poor leftist on this sight would have no way of expressing their sick and stupid ideas. Crayons only go so far, and nobody would be able to read their rants!

war good, peace bad.
hate good, love bad.
pollution good, recycling bad.
rich people good, poor people bad.

may I borrow your crayons?

Daveman, I am constantly running into your lame arguments on this site
that consist of nothing but put-downs and misinformation
that NEVER CONTAIN FACTS AND NEVER PROVE A POINT
except that you are constantly putting your fascist foot in your mouth.

Anyone with a brain knows you are full of shit.
.....and to top it off, you are igonorant to the fact
that you are a stupid, racist, fascist, ignorant moron,
who disregards all fact and world history . (Just like Bush)

TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU PROVE YOURSELF TO BE
AGAINST THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

But since many Americans, like yourself, are sadly enough
TOO BRAINWASHED,
too ignorant of the history of this planet,
and too frightened to voice or hear the truth,
to commit the "thought crimes" against our
lying-ass, corrupt , terrorist, greedy, bullshit corporate U.S. Government
(as well as the U.K. , Turkish, and Israeli Govts).
I am glad you continue your factless, ignorant rhetoric
so that those like you
can also be shut down,
or better yet (and hopefully)

educated, on what is REALLY happening.

PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND.

Or are you one of the very few corporate benefactor's of this Bullshit???
(THAT would explain EVERYTHING)

Your "fuck you's" and fake zionistic anti-seminist accusations aren't working.

In the name of the Constitution and America,
which Bullshit Bush OBVIOUSLY dosn't give a fuck about,

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!

AND STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!

EDUCATE YOURSELF WITH HISTORY
AND DEFEND OUR SACRED CONSTITUTION.........while you still can.
(before it is against the so-called "law" to do so.

before these governments destroy the Constitution
(ie. the Patriot Act, more economic and land wars, etc.)

Our Country is dying. And the govt is killing others while doing so.
And you are supporting it.

Don't get so uptight.
We've examined the same evidence you have.
We reached a different conclusion.
We just don't agree that what you're saying is going on.
Are you able to handle that in a mature manner?
Given your rant, it doesn't appear so.

Sometimes I think the world has gone completely mad.
And then I think, "Aw, who cares?"
And then I think, "Hey, what's for supper?"

Calm down, dude. Relax. Take a deep breath. It's just the Internet.

Of all the things you so rabidly accuse me of, none are true. Your accusations are based merely upon my disagreement with the Leftie party line and not on actual fact. I don't swear in my posts, unless I'm quoting someone. I'm not a racist, zionist, stupid, or any of the other baseless insults hurled at me.

Do I care if you believe me? As much as I care what you think of me.

None.

I am a staunch supporter of our Constitution...you know, the document that gives you the right to say things like "Anyone with a brain knows you are full of shit..." and gives me the right to say things like, "Then how would you know it, lacking the necessary brain?"

You know, the Constitution that I swore to God to protect with my life. And since I'm pretty fond of my life, I must take that oath pretty seriously. Wonderful document. But you know, there's nothing in there that says your right to express yourself requires me to agree with you.

Maybe you need to read it again, before you sling around such labels as "traitor".

Now: I come here to la-imc to have fun, mostly. I make serious commentary where necessary, but mostly I like to point out the ridiculous things I see. This amuses me, and therefore is worth putting up with the name-calling and profanity I get.

Your insults are meaningless to me. You cannot hurt my feelings and you will not change my mind with brilliant arguments such as "you are igonorant to the fact that you are a stupid, racist, fascist, ignorant moron, who disregards all fact and world history."

I am none of that. I disagree with you, and you can't handle it. Well, too bad. Grown-ups disagree. Get used to it. To accept disagreement is a sign of maturity. To stamp your feet and call people names because you don't get your way is childish.

One more thing...Use of Caps Lock and multiple exclamation points doesn't make you any more right.

Will you be attending the KKK rally tonight?

It's moronic posts like yours that will be the death of Indymedia.

Fine with me. I just figured that since you already paid your dues, you'd be coming to every rally. I'll toast a marshmallow at the cross burning for you!

...why are you under the impression I'm racist?

Islamophobes are racists.

When the Lefties run out of arguments sticking a label on someone makes them feel better.

Oh, you mean like calling an anti-war protestor a "commie?" You conservatives are nothing if not hilarious!

strawman tactics just don't cut it around here. But we've got our eyes on you.

Please C&P comments of mine that show me as Islamophobic.