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Gee, THESE people were wrong?

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:44 AM

From the Telegraph, notable predictions about the war.

Robert Fisk, The Independent, April 2: The Iraqi army's defences seem impenetrable.

Robert Fisk: Anyone who doubts that the Iraqi army is prepared to defend its capital should take the highway south of Baghdad. How, I kept asking myself, could the Americans batter their way through these defences? The Americans may say they are 'degrading' the country's defences, but there was little sign of that here Wednesday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/10/who10.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/10/ixnewstop.html

Haven't heard any retactions from Robert yet...
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What's your point?

by mediawatcher Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:24 AM

Impenetrable to ground defenses, but not to a ground defense aided by air bombardments that arbitrarily target civilians
and public and media institutions, including children's hospitals, open marketplaces, and suburban communities. You seem to forget that this is a punative invasion, so Fisk's only error is underestimating the impunity with which the coalition forces were willing to murder civilians.

On the contrary, the pro-war lobby was wrong because:
1.) Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction, and the coalition has yet to find anything but pesticides.
2.) Bin Laden has not come to the rescue, and there is still no evidence of the Al Qaeda-Hussein connection, BECAUSE THERE NEVER WAS ONE
3.) As the Halliburton contracts confirm, as well as the troops own establishments of Camp Exxon and Camp Mobile, the protection of oil fields in north and southern Iraq suggest, IT WAS ABOUT OIL (AND IMPERIALISM) ALL ALONG.

Daveman get a clue.



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Simple

by Simple Simon Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:37 AM

mediawatcher, you need to watch some other media.

Where are your millions of civilian casualties you buffoon? This operation was conducted in such a careful manner that it will surely be studied as the most surgically precise war in history. We were able to separate the wheat from the chaff with remarkably little colateral damage - this despite the fact that our opponent INTENTIONALLY endangered his own populace.

The weapons of mass destruction will be found. And you and the rest of the haters will deny the evidence.

So desperate are you to find a nefarious justification for this conflict, that you stoop to swimming in the fever-swamps of paranoia formerly only inhabited by Sheepdog and Diogenes. Let me see if I've got this right:

Bush crashed those planes into the WTC and the Pentagon (wait a minute, the Pentagon was bombed - I remember) so that he would have a justification to attack Afghanistan (to secure a petroleum pipeline) and then subsequently to attack Iraq (to secure oil wells). Close enough?

Grow up.
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Well Psymon you are...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:47 AM

...getting there: "Bush crashed those planes into the WTC and the Pentagon (wait a minute, the Pentagon was bombed - I remember) so that he would have a justification to attack Afghanistan (to secure a petroleum pipeline) and then subsequently to attack Iraq (to secure oil wells)."

Well you are beginning to catch on a little bit.

Notice Psymon's tactic here - he can't refute the central thesis of mediawatcher's post with facts so he resorts to charicature and parody. Not very effective but it is his only option. The truth, as always, is his enemy.

"The weapons of mass destruction will be found. And you and the rest of the haters will deny the evidence."

Just as soon as they are planted - and allowed to age a bit. It would be too obvious right now since no evidence has been found thusfar to immediately find it upon completing the immediate rape would be too suspicious.

Sure they'll find them - my guess is anywhere from 7 days to 6 weeks. Longer than 6 Weeks and it again starts to smell. They have got to get the timing right or trip over their shoelaces again.
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To mediawatcher

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:48 AM

Are you saying Fisk had no idea of the Air Force's capabilities? Wasn't he in Baghdad in '90 - '91? He had a front row seat! Don't be ridiculous.

"...that arbitrarily target civilians ". Huh? We're killing innocent people? Let's see: 600 cruise misslies, 600 bombing sorties every night for 3 weeks, and we've only killed 2,000 civilians? I WANT MY TAX MONEY BACK. We're doing a really crappy job killing civilians.

"Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction..." But he HAS to...we SOLD them to him!

"...still no evidence of the Al Qaeda-Hussein connection, BECAUSE THERE NEVER WAS ONE". Did Osama tell you that himself? How do you explain the chummy letter Saddam wrote to Bin Laden? Fan mail?

"...IT WAS ABOUT OIL (AND IMPERIALISM) ALL ALONG. " What size batteries does your crystal ball use?

"Fisk's only error is underestimating " the depths of his own hatred for America as well as his own stupidity.

Get your own clue.
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Diogenes, you are really...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:50 AM

...priceless. You hate Bush so much, if he said the sun rises in the east, you'd have an apopoplectic fit screaming it rises in the west.
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Bonzi

by knife Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:54 AM

Let Diogenes say what he will. He's self-deluted like they all are. It's his own downfall he's staging. When your enemy is getting ready to commit suicide, just get out of his way. This is too easy.
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And when his...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:57 AM

...ego implodes, it'll have a 50-meter kill radius.

BOOOM!
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wow

by wow Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:57 AM

wow
knife
dull
wow
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mom

by mom Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:00 AM

mom
help
wool
mom
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Notice that the attacks...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:05 AM

...of the shills are all ad-hominem. When they resort to personal attacks it means they have lost the debate.

Fini.
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HAHA

by laugh Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:10 AM

Debate? The debate's been over. We're just here to make fun of you.
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Clearly a demonstration...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:16 AM

...of your very childish and limited abilities. You are however right - the Pro-War side has as it's only remaining argument "might makes right". Winning a War does not make you right. Beating a 3rd rate Army with overwhelming force proves nothing.

The abscence of humanity in your sides posts reflect poorly upon your character.

I neither need nor seek your approval.
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I believe the Telegraph piece...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:18 AM

...speaks for itself.

"When they resort to personal attacks it means they have lost the debate. " Then you admit defeat in all the theads these are excerpted from:

"...faux patriot Brown Shirt Scum like yourself ..."

"...no more a Patriot than Benedict Arnold or Vidkun Quisling..."

"...the imbecile posting after me..."

"...the Shills..."

"...The Bush PR shills ..."

"...the usual brain dead un-Free Rezpublik assumptions..."

"...you are a walking insult to all your fellow morons..."

Or is it valid debate for you to insult people?

Careful, Diogenes...your double standard is showing.

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And I neither...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:24 AM

...care about your opinion of me, or think you are in any way relevant.

HA HA! You are so full of yourself!

*puffs chest out* "I neither need nor seek your approval."

HA HA! I didn't know they made Viagra for the ego...

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Gee Cave...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:27 AM

...can you get Wally to help with your homework next time?
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But you idiots are weasels

by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:27 AM

You're PAID to take this abuse, for christsake
Foolish one, you deserve no respect.
You are here to produce current spin to see if it
holds up.
Stop whining.
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Diogenes...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:31 AM

...that would have been funny if it were...

...well, funny.
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Oh Shucks...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:34 AM

...I am cut to the quick. (If you are wondering what that means Cave it's sarcasm - spelled s-a-r-c-a-s-m.) And no it is not related to spasm.
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Leave your spasms...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:35 AM

...out of this. EWWWW!
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One quick question...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:36 AM

Does your continual misspelling of my nickname in some way make you feel better about yourself?

Sophomoric.
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Funny thing is

by mymicz Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:37 AM

If Fisk was that wrong, why have we lost so many more men this time around than last time, that is if you don't count Gulf War illness. And I also agree, if you have to make fun of your opponent, instead of validly counterarguing, you're a scared little pussy face, and you too could some day be President. God, I can't wait to move to Europe, if only my 50th rate American education had prepared me for a real living wage job there. I'm assuming, all of you had the same 50th rate education. That's right, America, 50th of any civilised nation in Education, go U.S.A, way to be substandard.
People who are pro USA are pro shoddy shit for sure, that's why everything in my house that's good is French. We were the last country to have civil rights, the last country to be desegregated, not counting South Africa, the last civilised nation to abolish the death penalty, and the last in arts spending. We haven't outlawed killing retards like everyone else, hell we can't even smoke a doobie here but we can in England. What's so free about this fucking place, when I have to be affraid to fly just because I vocally don't like the President. I may not be able to see my family because being a peace activist is now un-patriotic, many are in jail without trial, some tortured, tell me what's better about Bush than Sadam, especially considering that the Bush's made Sadam who he is today.
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No...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:39 AM

...I just like accuracy. It would seem to be a much better fit. Much more reflective of your moral and ethical tenor.
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I'm not a...

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:54 AM

...I'm a baritone. You like accuracy? Get it right.

i think I'll get accurate, and start calling you Pompous Wacko. Sounds pretty accurate to me.
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Oh, yeah, YOU'RE FUNNY alright!

by anastasia Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:56 AM
anastasia0330@gci.net

Ok, first you said that if someone has to resort to mudslinging in a debate, then they've lost. So why the "pussy face" remark? Plus, the "retard" remark was incredibly un-PC as well. Your whole post, while somewhat hilarious, was completely hypocritical at best.

Also, another reason for the increased coalition casualties is this is much more of a ground war than an air war.

Your welcome.
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Logical Fallacy

by debate coach Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:56 AM

>No...
by Diogenes
...I just like accuracy.<

Unsubstantiated allegation.
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mymicz

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:58 AM

Man, if I could spare it, I'd spot you 50 bucks for airfare. Oh! But you're afraid to fly. Not because of terrorism, but because a President has made it safer to fly.

Right. Say "Hi!" to France for me. And tell 'em I said to shut up; we'll protect civilization.
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To ana and DC

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 10:59 AM

High fives!
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To Daveman

by anastasia Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:05 AM
anastasia0330@gci.net

Right back at you!-)
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Pompous...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:05 AM

...and self congratulatory that they are you have to laugh at their naive and childlike innocence. Kind of like a kid holding up his first Liquor Store.
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Is "Indy"media really independent

by Fox News Fan Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:11 AM

Do you really believe that you are on aan Independent Media web site? Take a look at the articles. Do you see a wide variety that would appeal to an Independent individual. Someone who votes independent. Sorry Hippies, but if your on this website constantly and never pay attention to the reliable corporate media then no wonder why you are out on the streets supporting terror. I guess it can't be your fault if you fail to keep yourselves informed. Here's an idea, go to a psychiatrist, get some Paraniod Schiznophrenic medication and become informed without your paranoid delusions. Do you think that this website is news. Hell, this is my comic relief. I had no idea that the world could have so many morons before I came here. Its funny, you don't report on anything besides peace protests and everything else comes right out of Al - Jazeera. To all those who are seriously reading this, all I ask is that you think about it. IF you have half a brain, you'll consider taking a look at Fox News.com . They have the most reliable information you could ask for. All of those who are hardcore liberal Democrats may not like this so just go to CNN. But what they all have in common is that they report the facts, and only the facts. They may have a lot of commentary, but it is all based on facts. Sure, you may be independent from money, no corporate sponsors, but you sure as fuck aren't politically independent. You are using the war as a political vehicle to further your lost cause. You couldn't give a fuck about the war. When Clinton bombed them without achieving any kind of objective, where were you? Clintons bombing was senseless, we never committed troops to the ground and never removed Saddam. Why do you waste your time? I'll be voting for Bush in the next election because I think he's the best guy for the job. He's done a great job with this war and when that flow of oil comes into our economy, I'm sure you jack asses won't be bitching about saving some gas money. Just try to shut up because all you are doing is making yourselves look stupid, OK?

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Diogenes

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:18 AM

Still not carin'!

HA HA!
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The above post

by Sheepdog Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:20 AM

Reminds me of a borg city/ship
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And this would...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:21 AM

...affect me how?
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Beats me.

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:22 AM

But you keep carrying on like I should care what you think.
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first post

by new here Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:24 AM

Hey, I made embarrassingly huge sums of money on the backs of the working class today. What did you do?
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Personally,

by daveman Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:26 AM

I wasted huge wodges of taxpayer cash making fun of people on Indymedia.

Yahoo!
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Read this

by JEFF Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:27 AM

Peace activits unpatriotic? Just listen to yourself. I encourage you to print out what you've written, stash it somewhere that you won't accidentally use it to roll up a "doobie", and read it in about ten years when you have children, or a wife, or at least somewhat of a broad awareness of what is going on in the world. I'll bet you think to yourself "Damn, I was stoned, and jeez, what a stupid thing to say". Think! Peace activists are not unpatriotic. You've got it all wrong. The President IS a peace activist. Saddam Hussein unfortuanately is not. So, do you suggest that we just sit here and wait until a man who if you've done your homework(which it is apparent that you haven't)would do us as much harm as possible if he could? Take that along with your doobies, and what appears to be a waste of a 50th rate education to France with you and do us all a favor....STAY THERE. Americans have no excuse to be uniformed. And you have only made yourself a prime example of what happens when someone who claims to be patriotic chooses to lash out with uninformed slander with a very adolescent and narrow point of view. If you were the true definition of an American and a patriot, then I wouldn't want to be one either.
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No way dude!!

by Sheepdog & Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:29 AM

>Think!

That requires effort. We never go there.
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As is common...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:33 AM

...Caveman, you miss the point. I merely enjoy demonstrating your dishonesty. It really is quite fun. Problem is it is so easy I am getting bored with you.

However there is a second element in my play.

And no, I never show all my cards.
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Supreme

by Dog Squeeze Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:35 AM

Rather be a Caveman instead of someone looking for the truth who is seaching for it up his own asshole.
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You definitely...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:38 AM

...chose and appropriate nickname.
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TLW

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:42 AM

Hi. I'm Diogenes. I've got to get in "The Last Word" because in my fragile, egg-shell, childlike mind, I actually believe that winning has nothing to do with engaging in intelligent debate, but rather ensuring that at the end of every conversation I am the last to post. Posting “The Last Word”, while having no foundation in reality (Why should I change now?), makes me feel really warm and fuzzy inside, like my opinion really matters.
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Jeff, What do you consider to be Patriotic

by Not Stoned, Just Informed Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:42 AM

First of all, oyu didn't respond to anything in my post. You read only to see if I agreed with your position or not. What, now marching around supporting Hussein is Patriotic? You may not want to believe it, but you are indirectly helping Saddam by marching against the war. To be honest, I couldn't give a shit about WMD, I wanted to see the Iraqi people freed from Saddam. Oil, its already being given back to the Iraqi people. This war accomplished something moron. What did the 98 bombing do when Saddam first kicked the inspectors out? Gee, let me think, after the bombing, Saddam was still in power, the inspectors never went back, and they continued to develop WMD which Saddam sees no reason not to use. Give me a fucking break. First of all, I know you get high, you can deny it, but you know its the truth. Maybe thats why you can't think right, why can't even make a point. You, like many others, have been brainwashed by this web site. I feel bad for you that you refuse to see the truth. I know you don't like Bush. Most hippies are liberal. Legalize pot? A conservative republican issue? You should try to admit that the only reason you are against the war is because you don't like Bush. I have friends who come from Iraq and we share the same opinions. They smiled when they saw the statue of Saddam fall and talked about going back to the homeland. Go back to your cave that you came out of or as you would like to call it, your parents basement.
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A Day In The Life

by ohboy Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:48 AM

Speaking of informed, I've read the "news" here at LA-IMC today and the postings from Sheepdog and Diogenes, and so just by merely knowing that the exact opposite of what they say is the actual truth, I pretty much know what happened today. Don't tell me you can't use these people to find out what really happened.
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Good Boy!

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:49 AM

Stay on that Spin. The WMD© scam got busted so we have got to stay with the current cover story to cover the theft of the Oil Wells and the return to selling Iraqi Oil for Federal Reserve Notes instead of Euros.

I have no doubt that the Iraqi people are pleased Saddam is gone. He was propped up entirely too long by the American Government. It is good to see one of our Washington Whores pet Dictators go down. Of course it was because he stopped playing ball and this was just an object lesson to other Clients of the Empire but what the hay? And we won't mention that he was a former business partner of the Bush Family will we?
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RightIsRight

by RightIsRight Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:51 AM

50th rate education?

And I supposed it's a vast right wing conspiracy that you could barely make it into community college.

Fellow realists, harken, what do I hear? "Glub blurb blag glub". The last gasping sounds of the far left as they sink hopelessly into the quicksand of irrelevance.

It is their WORST nightmare.

"Daddy pweeeeeeze wook at me!!! WOOK at me... I am doin' sumptin"

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Not Stoned, Just Idiotic

by Anastasia Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 11:51 AM

Well, before you start going off on someone, perhaps you should see what he was reading and posting a reply to in the first place. It was mimicz post he was replying to and he is extremely patriotic. Did you even read his post all the way through? Apparently not, because you would have read that Jeff is actually a HUGE supporter of Bush's. Plus, he doesn't smoke weed. He's in the USAF.

Stop getting your undies in a bunch and take a breath.
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RightisRight is right

by Anastasia Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:06 PM
anastasia0330@gci.net

I agree completely.

Mymicz is in some desperate need of attention.

Glibby Glok gook!
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Still no Replies that really mean anything

by A result not being informed Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:17 PM

Really, I don't know the whole history of the relationship between our country and Saddam. And I really don't care. What I do know is that we had a different kind of Foreign Policy back then morons. It was called the Cold War. I'm sorry, but we can't predict the future any better than all of you antiwar Saddam supporters. It doesn't matter what I say. If a nuke was found today in Baghdad, you would say that the US government planted it there. If we go to North Korea, you'll think its because we need to finish some job from the 50's or something. I don't know, I'm sure you'll find some stupid explanation about why we're really going to North Korea. How long did it take you to think the one up about Oil? We could drill the reserves in Alaska if we needed it that bad. So I go to a community college? OK, thats nice of you to say, but I'm afraid I have a little more education than any of you. Damn, you probably don't even believe anything that you read in textbooks. "Oh my god, this information looks like what they reported in the Corporate Media, it can't be true." My guess is that you probably don't know anything because you're so paranoid that you can't trust anything you read. I do know that if you are trusting media that comes from Government controlled media outlets then chances are that you are very misinformed. In fact, you're so brainwashed that its really disturbing. Before you say that I'm uneducated and never plan to go to Iraq. I must tell you that I graduate from a State University in a few months with the ROTC program. Soon, I will go to boot camp and become a 2nd LT. I then plan to volunteer for service in Iraq if we're still there. What are you guys doing with yourselves besides supporting terror?
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I'm curious

by c71898 Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:50 PM

"The weapons of mass destruction will be found. And you and the rest of the haters will deny the evidence."

If Saddam the terrible had these WMD, wouldn't he have used them by now? Why would he keep them stored? It just strikes me as odd.

And, i'd like to make an observation...

Daveman = Caveman.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:53 PM

I personally think that Saddam was killed on the first night of the war. His sons have been running the show ever since.

This would explain the lack of command and control in the Iraqi army.
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Here's fresca

by TO DIO AND MEDIA WATCHER Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:55 PM

"Notice Psymon's tactic here - he can't refute the central thesis of mediawatcher's post with facts so he resorts to charicature and parody. Not very effective but it is his only option. The truth, as always, is his enemy."

Alright Dio, I'll refute them , again, just like I walked all ove ryour sorry ass yesterday.. To wit:

1.) Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction"

Of course he does. My proof, you ask. Refer to any of a number of posts by your esteemed colleague in buffoonery, Diogenes. He'll be happy to inform you that WE allowed them to import BIO-TOXINS in the '80s. So. we know that WMD exist in IRAQ. We have ABSOLUTELY no evidence that ANY of this was ever destroyed. Therefore, simple logic tells us that they still exist. If something existed at some point and no eveidence of it not existing is present, we can safely assume it still exists. There. One down.

2.) Bin Laden has not come to the rescue,

Exactly. One of THE key leftist arguments for not going to war was the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that we would beset by imminent terrorist reprisals. Guess what? Bin Laden has not come to the rescue. Well put.

"As the Halliburton contracts confirm, as well as the troops own establishments of Camp Exxon and Camp Mobile, the protection of oil fields in north and southern Iraq suggest, IT WAS ABOUT OIL (AND IMPERIALISM) ALL ALONG."

Read the news son, Halliburton has withdrawn it's consideration for contracts . It's not in the running. Plain fact. To try and argue with that is assinine. It's amatter of public record. As far as the claim of "IMPERIALISM". I'll let that nonsense speak for itself. I cannot refute unsubstantiated opinions based on teenage emotion. There. All points have been refuted. I've responded intelligently and completely with no points averted. Now I supect I'll see some clever, badly made graphics posted (lol) and a post from Dio denyoing that I've resonded or refuted. No matter. I've already won.

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Same Thoughts as You

by Dear c71898 Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:57 PM

I keep asking myself the same question. Supposedly Saddam was loaded with these evil weapons (provided by us) and he is pledging to fight to the last to protect Baghdad.....and......and.....and....

Hmmmm......something is missing. Oh, yeah, those WMD that he had. Wonder why he did not use them in the war? I bet the answer to that is: BECAUSE SADDAM DID NOT HAVE ANY WMD. Duh.....
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Step right into this one

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:57 PM

"...of the shills are all ad-hominem. When they resort to personal attacks it means they have lost the debate."

Dio, ALL attacks directed towards the arguments of a crazy person are ad hominem. What else is there to attack. Notice a pattern of the responses you get?
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TO: Not stoned, just informed

by JEFF Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 12:59 PM

It appears that you did not read what I wrote. We seem to share many of the same opinions. The post that I made was in response to a post "funny thing is". Read it, then read what I wrote again. Maybe then it will make sense.

I am amazed at the conclusions you were able to jump to simply by reading what I wrote. Is it standard practice for you to fly off the handle in such a way. Your miscalculations are astonishing, try reading things all the way through next time. Thanks.
signed,
unstoned, Bush supporting, patriotic, service member, JEFF


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Fresca

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:00 PM
anastasia0330@gci.net

You are wonderful!!!!!

Well put!
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Thank you

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:01 PM

Thank you anastasia. I'll send you over a nice cold fresca.
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Thats Great

by thomas Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:10 PM

I dont know what school you go to, but every teacher that I have at my college told us that if were going to get arrested for something we believe in, now is the time. why dont you ask your history teacher, according to poles, most history teachers in this country disagree with the war.
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I don't know what school you go to either!

by Anastasia Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:15 PM

If you want to get arrested for something you believe in, be my guest. I still think you're wrong.

Besides that, I could give a shit less about what the "poles" (sic) say history teachers feel about the war.
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Now there's a shocker

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:16 PM

"most history teachers in this country disagree with the war"

Imagine that!

And I don't know why you feel the need to drag Poland into this thing.
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fresca

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:32 PM

Maybe my world is small, but I can honestly say that the only pro war people I know of are white and well off. Maybe Im on the wrong side of town, but I just dont see massive war support where I am.
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I don't know what to tell ya there thomas

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:35 PM

Got me. I guess you live in a pocket which doesn't reflect the fact that EVERY poll puts support of the war somewhere between 75 and 80 %. Certainly you realize that your experience is an anomoly.
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I guess i do live in a pocket

by Thomas Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:47 PM

Its a pretty a big pocket.
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I guess

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 1:57 PM

Well, it would seem that since you know the feelings of all the people in you rpocket, white, rich and otherwise, that most of the anti-war minority in this country live near you. Where is that anyway? silverlake?
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Sun rising

by Meyer London Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 2:26 PM

You actually think that Bushy boy knows whether the sun rises in the east or the west? That kind of hard studyn' stuff is only for girls and for males trying to work their way up from the lower classes - where Bush thinks they should stay.
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TROLL

by YES, Anti-war protesters are wrong! Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 2:41 PM

Hahahaha, you anti-war protesters are still at it! Even with Iraqi people rejoicing in the streets, even with Iraqis chasing out Al-Jazeera reporters because they leaned to much in favor of Saddam, and even with Iraqis with the help of Americans toppling statues of Saddam you mother- f u c k ing anti-war protesters just can't admit you lost. YOU LOSE! Even the Iraqis wanted this war, tch tch, just get over it pricks, go and boycott Macdonalds or complain about the 2000 elections again, pussies.

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TROLL

by YES, Anti-war protesters are wrong! Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 2:46 PM

BTW, about 80% of Americans now support this war. If you think about it, SOME anti-war protesters did admit that they were wrong and switched sides. Thank God the majority of Amerians are not conspiracy theory nuts and have some common sense. Perhaps the rest of you (16% now) pro-hussein lovers can get over the 2000 elections and the EXTREMELY successful war and admit that the anti-war movement was a complete failure.
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fresca

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 3:19 PM

Where'd you go? I've answered your please. Now respond.
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Yep, Right Lies in Numbers

by TO TROLL Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 3:21 PM

And...during WWII, about 80% of the Germans supported Hitler. That made him right, too.

Yep...I can see the logic of your statement. Cuz people support the Iraqi War, it makes it right. Good analysis, Lame Brain.
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TROLL

by To Pro-Hussein guy Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 3:25 PM

Uh, yeah, 99.99% of Americans are against murder, but maybe that makes them mindless sheep who believe in God. Huh? The difference is that we are more knowledgeable about this war, its not indiscriminate killing or imperialization. It's all for a purpose, a righteous one. The fact is you're against this war and you have a right to that because youre an American, if you were in Germany opposing Hitler, you'd be dead. But maybe you can't see the differences between Nazi-Germany and Democratic America.
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Not neccessarily

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 3:32 PM

"Cuz people support the Iraqi War, it makes it right"

No. That's not what makes it right. That 80% of the people realize it's right is incidental. But one thing is for sure, A handful of fucking idiots saying the war is wrong DOES NOT make it wrong.
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fresca

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 3:52 PM

Still waiting professor.
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fresca

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 4:12 PM

I'm watching him post on other threads but is curiously absent here. Not even a character attack. Count him out.
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Maybe...

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 4:30 PM

He realized your tripe didn't even warrant a response? It certainly doesn't. I taunt you only for my own amusement. In fact I would declare diogenes the 'winner' here for not stooping to your level. So fuck off and die already you murderous sack of shit.
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Gotcha

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 4:39 PM

POIO. You're too easy. I own you! LOL. I can just see you there fuming over your IMAC and pounding your fists on the desk, spilling your yoohoo.
I love you. Please don't ever leave.

And DIO, it's obvious you've read my trouncing of you so have a good night.
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Enough for one night

by Fresca is AWESOME! Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 4:45 PM

Well, keep these anti-war protestors in their place Fresca, I'm off to go to sleep.

THANK GOD FOR BUSH!
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Fresca is AWESOME......

by Stop the Bullshit Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:00 PM

"THANK GOD FOR BUSH!"

That is exactly what all of the liberated Iraqis think too.
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Oh

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:07 PM

Well i didn't believe it when our media showed it to us. And i didn't believe it when our leaders told us of it. And if i was standing in the midst of it, I still wouldn't believe it.

But now that you've told me, Stop the Bullshit, well... now i believe.

Phew, thanks for keeping me informed man.

Damn you are all such ignorant sacks of shit... you'd be cracking me up with your ignorance but we live in dark days largely because of your stupidity, and kids with no arms and legs are only funny in jokes, not in reality.
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Oh....

by Stop the Bullshit Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:18 PM

What ignorance do I show? All I'm saying is the truth. Maybe that is why there are images of Iraqis kissing the picture of George Bush. Pissed Off in Ohio, if you would actually read a paper maybe you would have seen it on the front page or something like that.
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Well if you have to ask...

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:27 PM

Here we go:

"What ignorance do I show?" - We're about to find out

"All I'm saying is the truth" <- ignorance #1 - Not that i disagree with your 'truth', but that you would state it in such absolute terms. You probably believe in 'good' and 'evil' too eh? And the very idea that there is a truth and you know it is fucking laughable.

"Maybe that is why there are images of Iraqis kissing the picture of George Bush." <- ignorance #2 - When the mob of pissed off soldiers with guns, tanks, air strikes, food and water tell you to kiss the picture, you don't ask many questions, you kiss the damn picture. It could be a picture of dog shit and you'd be frenching it if you thought they'd a) not kill you and b) feed you.

"if you would actually read a paper maybe you would have seen it on the front page or something like that" <- ignorance #3 - Ever see those novelty shops where you can have whatever you wanted printed on page one of a fairly authentic looking newspaper? Our media has about as much validity these days. Go find out who owns what. See why they'd lie to you for yourself.

I could go on for a while but I have things to do. Go get your learn on and stop being such a dumbass.
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There it is

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:28 PM

"And if i was standing in the midst of it, I still wouldn't believe it. "


There it is. In a nutshell. You don't see the irony do you POIO?
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Well...

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:35 PM

...You obviously missed it completely. Why would I possibly disbelieve what was occuring around me?

I don't need rooftop images of a couple dozen 'celebrators' to realize that the idea of people getting their groove on in the middle of the street, spontaneously, in the middle of fullscale US led invasion, is totally bullshit. Nor have i failed to notice the bush administrations inability to produce any credible weapons of mass destruction. Or any link between Iraq and 9/11. Also i have noticed everyone, everywhere, is fucking miserable over this damn war. Also I've noticed halfbaked propoganda stunts seem to be a speciality of the bush administration, (the angry mobs at the vote recounts, the clearchannel 'Lets go get our war on!' rallies, you brownshirt idiot assholes, plenty more).

So yes, even if i was standing in the middle of 150 people partying in a warzone I would still disbelieve it. Go figure.
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Points

by Scottie Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:55 PM

Diogenes & Co - If you will not accept evidence that is not "right wing conspiricy evidence" then you will only see "right wing conspiriacies - that is a obvious and we knew it already. Unless you can tell us the sort of proof that would convince you you are wrong then your comments are meaningless.
mymicz - the reason the US is substandard is the same people who protest agaisnt the war. I know I was tought by some of them. If you go to the countries that kick our ass like korea you will find teachers who DONT stop lessons to tell you why your parents are fighting an evil war.
Hey fancy that "most history teachers disagree with the war" is that the same history teachers who give us our 50th best education system? nice...
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Well...

by Stop the Bullshit Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 5:57 PM

Pissed Off in Ohio, I would like to know where you get your news. If all of the media is from the "novelty shop",then, once again, where do you get you news from? It seems that the only news you wish to believe is the news inside your head.

Also, you say " Also i have noticed everyone, everywhere, is fucking miserable over this damn war"
That is, everyone except the Iraqi people.
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The Shills Doth Protest too much...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 6:01 PM

I see conspicuously absent from the shill commentary any real shred of reason. As usual their stock in trade is name calling, School yard taunts and naught much else. It is the buzzing of flies feeding upon the corpses of the fallen.

Every supporter of every war from time immemorial has claimed for themselves the mantle of righteousness. Seldom has it been justly worn. This War, as with most, was the result of incompetence and petty venality. It was a war of aggression not even aimed at removing from the grasp of a foul dictator his war toys - largely garnered through the willing connivance of people named Bush and Rumsfeld. Nor was it done to protect his immediate neighbors (excepting Israel). It was conducted for the benefit of a few, very few, self styled elites - Plutocrats if you will, to further enrich themselves while feasting upon the blood of good men and women who would only wish to live free of fear and the tyrannical machinations of the War Planners - who never themselves fight.

The shills, eyes firmly clenched, and ears well stuffed, are busy trying to sell the PR line that this war was engaged in to “Liberate the Iraqi People”© (2003 The White House) while steadfastly ignoring that the succession of excuses, each discredited in it’s turn, which preceded it. I have no doubt that the tag line “Liberate the Iraqi People”© (2003 The White House) was well Focus Grouped before it was trotted out as the final excuse for this final solution.

As well the Shills would like to avoid the harsh truths that the U.S. Federal Government no longer pursues a course beneficial to the nation as a whole but is rather the tool of the aforementioned moral midgets who misconceive their personal interest as “best for all”. Shallow rationalizations by little men who would pervert, kill, and destroy in the name of Justice. Reality is of course that they know such is a lie. That is one reason the Psymon's and the fresca's protest so loudly their Patriotism and denigrate foully those who do not share their view. They are the fount of lies and well know it. No one protests their innocence more than a criminal rightly condemned.

As for some specifically humorous attempts to re-spin the case:

“1.) Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction"

Of course he does. My proof, you ask. Refer to any of a number of posts by your esteemed colleague in buffoonery, Diogenes. He'll be happy to inform you that WE allowed them to import BIO-TOXINS in the '80s. So. we know that WMD exist in IRAQ. We have ABSOLUTELY no evidence that ANY of this was ever destroyed. Therefore, simple logic tells us that they still exist. If something existed at some point and no eveidence of it not existing is present, we can safely assume it still exists. There. One down.”

Let us expose the logical flaws in this absurd little tirade:
Past existence, in the abscence of current evidence, proves nothing. At the time of the Bush Attack on Iraq there was no evidence of any SUBSTANTIAL amount of banned weapons. The evidence for which is the empty set. Much like your argument.
As for the contention that no evidence exists for the destruction of Saddam's WMDs© (2003 The White House) that is absolute balderdash as has been stated by the U.N. Weapons Inspection Team. There is a considerable body of evidence positively accounting for about 95% plus of Saddam’s known WMDs© (2003 The White House). Some of the ones "unaccounted for" were those blown up by U.S. E.O.D. Teams at the end of Gulf Massacre I. You are hanging on desperately to the lies you would like to believe to salve your conscience. To accept that there were no significant remaining stocks would mean that you would have to admit, shudder, that all of the dead and dying were put there unjustly. You are too much of a coward to accept that Bush Admirer.

“2.) Bin Laden has not come to the rescue,

Exactly. One of THE key leftist arguments for not going to war was the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that we would beset by imminent terrorist reprisals. Guess what? Bin Laden has not come to the rescue.”

This is nothing more than a “Straw Man” argument. Erect a phony figure and then destroy it.
The game is not over. It has barely begun. What repercussions we will suffer is an unknown. What is known is that despite the photo ops arguing otherwise the fighting continues and the Iraqi People are not greeting their glorious liberators with garlands.
Further, Bin Laden is/was a C.I.A. asset and his family still does business with the Bush Cabal. You need to adjust your medication.

To fresca (as much as it annoys me to take notice of your infantile ramblings this one was too good to pass up):

“And I don't know why you feel the need to drag Poland into this thing.”

It is really quite simple nitwit: The German Forces were in Tanks invading a country prepared to fight the Crimean War. The Noble Polish Cavalry even made a futile, but heroic, head on charge of the Invading Panzers. They were wiped out.
The Bush Rationale is not unlike Hitler’s rationale for invading Poland: Manufacture a provocation and then attack.


“Oh....
by Stop the Bullshit • Thursday April 10, 2003 08:18 PM
What ignorance do I show? All I'm saying is the truth. Maybe that is why there are images of Iraqis kissing the picture of George Bush. Pissed Off in Ohio, if you would actually read a paper maybe you would have seen it on the front page or something like that. “

Your ignorance - why absolute. The ass-kissers sucking Georgies face were INC plants flown in for the occasion.
As for the others of course they are grateful - that they aren’t being bombed anymore and are no longer watching their children sprout shrapnel marked “Made in the U.S.A.”. Get real - in any country that is invaded once it becomes apparent that the invaders have secured a military victory self preservation takes over. There were French who greeted the NAZI’s with Open arms who when the allies liberated them greeted them with open arms. In Iraq they are being greeted with Small Arms. I particularly like all the photos with Iraqi's giving a "Thumbs Up" - the Iraqi equivalent of The Finger.
As it stands current news reports indicate that the few isolated staged photo ops are the exception rather than the rule. It has been complete with doctored photos, rent-a-mobs (remember these people have no power food or water - offer them some water and a ration packet and they’ll dance a Hornpipe for you).

So far the only Bullshit that needs stopping is you.
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If you must know

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 6:09 PM

I monitor approximately 50 international satellite feeds, every major US tv network, several minor tv networks, any papers I can get my hands (or browser) on, a substantial network of friends and associates in the IRC network, and of course imc (thank you IMC admin, thank you so much).

So basically, I get my news, information and misinformation from just about everywhere. And I am completely capable of independantly deciding which of that news I care to believe and which i determine to be grade-A bullshit. Oddly enough the bullshit can be more informative than the actual reporting, once you learn to see what they're not showing you, and more importantly, figuring out or at least considering why they're not showing us the whole picture.

Case in point, how many wounded iraqi's have you seen on CNN? Answer: None. None at all. I wonder why... Why do they show our soldiers aiming their guns but not the people they're shooting? Why show the bombs but not the bombed?

In my opinion the most recent political stunts are evidence that the hometeam has been getting desperate and needed to drum up some support that clearchannel, fox, and cnn were unable to collectively provide without some 'good news' (aka 'fuel').
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Wow...

by Stop the Bullshit Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 6:26 PM

I guess all 50 international satellite feeds left out the Iraqis celebrating in the streets then.
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Rightio

by Scottie Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 6:37 PM

-- I see conspicuously absent from the shill commentary .. As usual their stock in trade is name calling.

HAHAHAHAHAHA "shill" hahaha

- Every supporter of every war from time immemorial has claimed for themselves the mantle of righteousness. Seldom has it been justly worn.

You dont have to be rightious - you just have to be better than the other guy.

-- the War Planners - who never themselves fight.

You know this tactic of putting your leader at the front of the battle field went out with the dark ages.. they kept finding that the leader would get killed and then there would be no one to organize the troups or call the retreat.. result.. massacare.

No one protests their innocence more than a criminal rightly condemned.

- how about someone wrongly condemed? I expect they might hold their own.

“1.) Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction"

- You are hanging on desperately to the lies you would like to believe to salve your conscience.

I dont know about them - but I dont need WMD's to justify a war with iraq.. he should have obeyed the ceasefire strictly (that is what ceasefires are for) and not played around with us. as a result we had a nice excuse to go about the real issue of liberating those iraqis.
I do however think that he had somthing.. at least until recently.

“2.) Bin Laden has not come to the rescue,

-- This is nothing more than a “Straw Man” argument.
-- Erect a phony figure and then destroy it.

Hmm I wish you would have called it a straw man argument when your liberal friends were proposing it.
Still I have difficulty with the concept that The government would do somthing as inefficient as aranging to bomb itself rather than just doing what it wants and showing you the finger.

-- The Bush Rationale is not unlike Hitler’s rationale for invading Poland: Manufacture a provocation and then attack.

Oh do I have a site for you

http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com/2003_04_06_michaeltotten_archive.html#200106644

this guy is writing out Dio's view of current events.. and it is SOOO funny
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Oh, STP...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 6:37 PM

...do you mean the INC members flown in on April 6th? Like the guy giving the big "1" to the Press Cameras? I don't know his name yet but he also shows up in the Photo of the Pet Iraqi's getting off the plane back on the 6th. Another one of those strange coincidences huh? Like the U.S. Troop Carrier with the cable attached to the Saddam Statue, and the "Miracle" of the Lt. carrying the WTC Flag "just by pure absolute random chance" being there to use the Flag to cover the statues head?

What an amazing run of coincidences.
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What took so long....

by Daisy Cutter Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 7:42 PM

for you to repost DIO? Did you have to look for your thesaurus or pull out some old philosophy books? Which was it?

Yes, I am resorting to personal attacks, as you do, as we all do. It's part of the game. We must use personal attacks for one simple reason....you (Diogenes) and crew of lefties that post here regularly, refuse to see the truth, even when it is right in front of you.

Iraqi citizens WELCOMING coalition troops, carrying pictures of Bush, tearing down Saddam statues, kissing troops. Great things are happening for these people. Do you not see this?

Wounded Iraqi soldiers being treated by U.S. medics while our POW's are being executed and beaten.

Wake the fuck up!

People like you say you want peace and harmony in the world, I do as well, the only thing is, you won't believe it if you ever see it.
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Dio

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 7:55 PM

Took you forever to be so wrong.
Quickly, as this is getting boring. You're logic is still nonsense as much as you're loathe to admit it.
Iraq had weapons. There's no evidence of their having been destroyed, except for Sadam telling us so (which you seem to take as gospel). Logically they are still there. That's enough right there. Forget all the EVIDENCE that there are WMD. I'm not even going to bother with that because you cannot entertain ideas that might disrupt your world view. This logic is enough. OF COURSE there are WMD.

And as far as Bin Laden goes. What's your point? That I've built a strawman? Hardly. I'm refuting the strawman that you seem to endorse. That this war will unleash Bin Ladens all over the world - EVENTUALLY. Well guess what son, they've been unleashed on us for over twenty years.

That's enough. You've either got it or you haven't. You'll never trust or believe in the world around you. I'm the fool for even arguing with you.
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I take it you are...

by Diogenes Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 7:58 PM

...are a member of the might makes right coterie?

What throngs? Other than a few staged Photo Ops to keep the "folks back home" in thrall to the 21" Peephole into Paradise I have seen nothing that would convince me of any widespread jubulation.

And I object to the lives of American Men and Women being expended to enrich a handful of already wealthy weasels.
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Good God!

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:02 PM

"I monitor approximately 50 international satellite feeds, every major US tv network, several minor tv networks, any papers I can get my hands (or browser) on, a substantial network of friends and associates in the IRC network, and of course imc (thank you IMC admin, thank you so much). "

Will you stop already with the bullshit? You are fucking nuts if you expect anyone (short of Dio) to believe that nonsense. Christ what an idiot.
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dick

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:03 PM

http://www.webcamsue.demon.nl/

and thanks to broadband and a room full of pc's, i can watch up to about 10 at once. And i do. Check out cspan1 right now, the house of reps is turning into WWF.
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ugh

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:10 PM

Fresca you are such an ass. Please though, carry on. Smacking you around is rather amusing.
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mmm hmmm

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:10 PM

well thanks for the link. I appreciate it.
I still question your claim of "monitoring" such a wealth of info simultaneously.
What is it you do that you have so much time to wacth so many pc's?
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Self Employed

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:20 PM

I primarily design and build websites for international ecom concerns. I also make high-end informational websites for technology vendors like automation industry, satellite technologies, and pretty much anyone else with the money to pay my fees.

I also do remote server configuration, maintence, and security diagnostics.

I very rarely do work for local merchants, although recent economic trends have dictated that I occasionally do work for people I meet face to face.

I also kick a substantial pile of ass at almost any FPS game.

I work out pretty much all day, every day, taking days off on sunday and thursday.

I have no employees or partners (aside from clients of course). Just me and my dog, taking care of business.

I would be happy to post links to some of my work unfortunately i fear immature dicks like "kobehq" would DOS 'em, and my clients don't necessarily share my political views so i see no reason to subject them to the repurcussions of such.
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Round and round again Ginny

by Jeff Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:24 PM

I'm curious, what is your take on Al Jazeera? Now, I do not have access to Al Jazeera but from "reports", not only the US news sources you listed but also from people inside Iraq, this news network has also been showing images that would seem to show that they are partial to their side. Would you agree? What does that make them? Just as awful and hurrendously full of bullshit as CNN?

Also, I find your contempt for the American people a bit unsettling. You have very little respect for our country and our culture. You have slandered not only the government, but US citizens as well. Again, you are entitiled to think and speak what you will but I must ask.....why do you live here????
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well

by fresca Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:27 PM

Some common ground.

all political squabbling aside I'm impressed.
I do much the same but am FAR behind you it would seem.

Got onto the computer boat very late after years of playing music.

Got a BSEE, moved to LA and turned my back on TRW and started making records.

Now, after a few years of freelance Flash design I'm starting into learning Perl, Java and XML.

I have to say, it's nice to type something here that's not an attack.
I'd like to see your work but I understand your reluctance.
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Whatis this? The dating game from Pissed off in Ohio?

by JEFF Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:28 PM

I think we can do without your resume'

It is my take that if most of your clients knew your political downfalls, they would take their buisness elsewhere. I know I would. Spare us the gloating and self indulgence. Thanks.
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Yes Jeff

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 8:49 PM

Many of my clients are big/med business and staunch republicans. So I generally don't mix politics and business. And he did ask what I did so I told him so get the hell over it already, we argue all day at least we can have some understanding of where we're coming from.

And before you criticize me for not standing next to the people who pay my bills, bear in mind that in all reality, I pay their bills with my technical abilities, in part if not damn near in full.

dammit the damn republican budget went through... greedy fuckers and their damn tax cuts.

fresca: fuck flash, that shit is so weak :-P
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Oh my goodness!

by MadMaxim Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:00 PM

POIO is a closet capitalist wage slave.

Well that just shatters my image of him.

What to do, what to do... .
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Hmm

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:14 PM

well, no... I always reserve the right to tell 'em to fuck off if they piss me off. And they do sometimes. I showed a client to the door just two days ago as it turns out. Thats one of the joys of self employment with a fairly broad spectrum of clients, you can command respect or leave, and in either case at least you don't have to deal with the stress (provided you don't mind going hungry for the sake of your sanity, something that has never bothered me). When you allow one employer a total monopoly on your income, that gives them far too much power over your day to day life. I have no intention of adopting that life style any time soon, I've been self employed for about 6 years now, sometimes happily, sometimes barely, but always on my terms. In retrospect I'd have it no other way.

And ohh madmaxim your view of me is sooooo important, lemme tell ya man, I'm all tore up. Really.
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Hmmm Sniff Sniff....

by MadMaxim Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:37 PM


...is that the stench of hypocrisy?

You rant and rave about the corporate machine. "Take to the streets boys and girls Follow Me!- Stop the Machine!"

You don’t agree with their politics – but you’ll,
"pay their bills with my [your] technical abilities" - and climb in bed with them and take their cash?

How sad.
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haha

by Pissed Off in Ohio Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:58 PM

Everybodies got to make a living. Despite what propoganda would tell you not everyone opposed to the war is some smelly jobless hippy looking for some justification behind waking up every day and finding it in whining about the system.

Some of us have much better things to be worrying about and yet still find the time to encourage our fellow community members to 'wake up' to whats going on around them. I prefer more constructive methods than 'shutting down the system' though, as i feel that is largly counterproductive, at least where i live (the cops just beat you senseless, drag you away and thats that).

You can stop cramming words down my mouth now too. Show me where i've ever encouraged anyone to 'shut down the system'. For that matter, i haven't attended or encouraged demonstrations since the onset of the war. For one it can potentially demoralize our troops, and two, it honestly accomplishes damn near nothing of political value. It could be argued that the only value behind demonstrations is that it provides a suitable forum to wake up and or educate the sheeple, but in many cases the people that need to be educated the most will already feel alienated by a demonstration anyways. So, I prefer social gatherings like barbeques, store lines, public transportation, venues where people gather anyways and don't necessarily share my views already.

And you're damn right I'll take their money. Just as much as I can get my hands on. I earn every penny too. I am so committed to doing my job right that it has been known to scare people a bit ("dude, settle down, its just a website...").

That statement aside, I'm really not greedy. I charge a fair price for my services but I don't gouge, thats a quick way to the poor house in this business, especially these days.

And whenever possible I always implement open source solutions. Fuck Microsoft. But enough about me.

What do you do madmaxim?

Maybe we should start a new thread and encourage people to post info about themselves beyond the repetitive "You suck!" -> "No you suck!", etc etc.
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yo PO'd Ohio

by FluxRostrum Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 7:32 AM
earth

If you are really in Ohio... check out my friend with very similar protest tactics... on steroids...

http://TheWalkForDemocracy.org

She's in Ohio now.
We share a similar work day as well.. except replace the dog w/a cat and 50 pc's w/2 and corporate clients w/ only locals ... peace.
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POIO

by daveman Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 7:40 AM

I like the no "You suck!" thread idea.

Go for it.
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I respect that, POID

by Anastasia Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 7:41 AM

I respect you for your views. I don't agree with them, for the most part, but I definitely see eye to eye with you on the demonstrations demoralizing the troops.

Maybe you should start a new thread. Might be refreshing for a change.
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The New X

by The New X Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 1:06 PM

all of you suck

ALL OF YOU!
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wow

by wow Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 1:34 PM

wow
a bomb
we all suck
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OneEyedMan

by KPC Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 1:59 PM

caveman: "You hate Bush so much, if he said the sun rises in the east, you'd have an apopoplectic fit screaming it rises in the west. "

Well, I wouldn't have a fit...but da Shrub is such a pathological liar that I would go outside at sunset to check before I took his word for it....
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Losers

by The Watcher Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 2:15 PM

Losers...
summit_of_losers.jpg, image/jpeg, 203x152

error
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Some say Parade?

by The Watcher Saturday, Apr. 12, 2003 at 2:18 PM

Some say Parade?...
losers_want_to_lead_parade.gif, image/png, 470x365

error
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