Photos from Al Jazeera that US corporate media decided we shouldn’t see:

http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2003/3/3-23-23.htm

Story that includes quotes from interviews with captured US soldiers:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&e=3&u=/ap/20030323/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_prisoners

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God have mercy on the soul of George W. Bush for I do not.

Please, Lord, stop this war.

My God Sammie!
Have you no sanity? No humanity? Is your hatred of Bush so strong that you can't even spare a single word even mildly criticizing those who actually shot these prisoners? I am for peace and am working for peace but I am working for peace by all. Saddam must be condemned also. Your mindless, childish hatred and your coldness towards what Saddam does is a disservice.

It should be a Women POW I saw on Al-Jazeera TV. Where is she ?

I understand the right of every American citizen to voice opinions on the policies of this country. However, when those policies are put into action we must stand as one, united for that cause. It is ridiculous to say this about oil. This is about American security. The security of our way of life. Security for our next generation. The men and women of the United States Armed Forces are fighting a war today so that our children will not have to do so in 10-15 years when Iraq is again an elite power in this world. Action had to be taken now before the current Iraqi state rebuilds its army and has real power to inflict harm on the United States and others in the world.

Thier the ones who declare the war
Your the ones that fight thier cause
They pull the trigger on thier gun
We die -- they have fun

die for your government
believe in us

the government decides thier on the prowl
Cant have all these bodies lying around
they dont care who they kill
just as long as they get thier thrill

...who are so blind and self deluded that you think this war is about any interest of the American People.

I may feel empathy for my brothers still on duty, but they are there in harms way for the interests of small and venal men who have not the courage to wear a uniform to fight their own wars. A bunch of God Damned Cowards - and now Bushie is cutting the Veterans Budget by 15 BILLION dollars even while our men and women are in the field.

SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUFFOONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the absolute imbecile who said this is about 911 - Get a Fucking CLUE. Iraq had NO involvement in 911 which was an INSIDE JOB.

911 WHAT REALLY HAPPENED???????

Fucking dumb americans

"we are defending ourselves from future attack"

hahahahah
fucking dumb americans

take communism
divide it by terrorism
and you get uneducated middle class fucking dumbass americans and their paranoia led by old fools who have dry constipated shit that stinks like a motherfucker.

they didnt fuckin learn from vietnam. vietnam was just a civil conflict. they mistook it for a worldwide communist conspiracy. domino theory? what bullshit. communist vietnam later invaded its neighbour to put down a communist uprising.

for god's sake America

the world is not out to get you

they hate your guts for obvious and justifiable reasons
but they have better things to do than bomb you: like enjoying their lives for example. also, they like to make fun of you a lot because americans are so stereotypical and predictable. heheh i always laugh when i see someone driving down the street with an american flag taped to their car holding up dumbass american signs saying "support our troops". such typical meaningless idiotic behaviour. i believe americans refer to it as "patriotism"? well in other countries, patriotism means standing up for the principles that the country is based on. also the world feels sorry for you because to be so blunt... the average jimbob american isn't very bright at all. also, even though its the 21st century, americans still live in houses made of wood.

so let me break it down for you

all you have to worry about at this point is a certain organization called al-qaeda

they actually dont have better things to do than bomb you

so leave saddam alone
and go for osama and his cronies

once you get osama, if you get osama, it would probably be wise to stop funding brutal dictatorships and opposition groups (i.e. mujahideen during soviet invasion of aghanistan) all around the world. so that then people like Osama and (ok let's just say) Saddam won't, in the future, come around and bite you in your ass. then withdraw ur troops from saudi arabia.

like 7up, its "always a better choice"

oh yeah and one more thing

please, give up 60" TVs. instead, buy 52" TVs and put the money you save into your education system because really, you americans are quite fucking dumb. i haven't yet figured out if its ur mental capacity, considering most of you descended from third class peasants, or if its just your poor education system.

either way
i wish you only the best america
in theory, your country is based on some good ideas. why don;t u try to actually make ur country a "land of justice and beacon light of hope and peace". if you are interested in taking that path, let me know, i will be more than willing to help you morally and financially.

lastly, peace
p.s. even tho i make fun of you. i still love you guys. americans are very friendly people. just that they are not very bright. hell... theyre fucking dumbasses.

Thank you Mark. You are the voice of reason in this intellectual desert.

Thanks so much for your generalities and condescension.
Sure a lot of americans blow chunks. So do Europeans.
It's not that we're dumb, it's just that we're fed on
pure white sugar and pure white bread a pure white Jesus.
I think it's a European idea.

What a colossal load of Horse Shit. Warmed over propaganda. I have seen Winos who could lay out a better argument that that.

"Well he might, someday, maybe, possibly, have been a threat if somebody in a Western Nation would sell him the war materials to rebuild his war machine which was totally ripped apart already.

Saddam had no capability to attack the U.S., no apparent intention do so in the present, and no way to procure the weapons to do so unless our government allowed him to purchase them.

Your argument is vapid, vacuous, and without substance.

You must be very pleased with yourself, Diogenes.

All your advocating for fratricide, all your earnest prayers for American deaths, these have come to pass.

You are a low little animal, Diogenes, and not worth the rope to hang you.

I pray for no one's death. You are a sick puppy once again twisting my words into something that bears no resemblence to what you began with.

I celebrate nothing about this evil war for which you advocate. I value every life. You may, in your own bitter bile, wish to find meaning that is not there. After all you must justify for yourself the evil you advocate.

Lovely poem. The American government is a representaion of the American people. The people in government are put there "by the people".

To suggest the happenings of 9-11 were somehow pulled off by the U.S. government is insane. If you truly believe this, you my friend, are the dumbass. If you don't truly believe this you are just an arrogant elitist asshole.

Are you the guy with no arms or legs who goes skydiving?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Please clarify.

Bad poetry Mark. The myth that the people in Congress reflect the will of the American people may have been true at one time. That time is passed, and I cry for country.

In the last election 5 Republican Representatives were elected in 5 different Districts by the same identical vote counts of 18,181. Honestly Elected? Your odds are better at winning the lottery than the odds of those 5 districts electing “Representatives” by the same Identical Vote Counts. Did I mention all 5 Districts used Electronic Voting Machines all supplied by the same company? Did I mention that the owner of that company is a big Bush Donor and Supporter?

Do I think the government pulled off 911 as an Inside Job? Well yes. It has more evidence to support it than the preposterous Conspiracy Theory that 19 poorly educated Arabs (15 Saudi’s by the way - NO Iraqis), who could not competently fly a Cessna 180, suddenly acquired the flight skills of an experienced Jet Pilot and were able to put Jumbo Jets through tight maneuvers for 2 hours in the most heavily guarded Airspace in the world without One plane giving an alert or One interceptor being Scrambled to take them down. You simply betray ignorance or excessive childlike credulity. Which is it?

911 WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

You are delusional. That is a fact not an argument.

What would our government have to gain from this? What could we gain from killing thousands of our own citizens, millions of dollars in destruction, and crippling our economy, then blaming it on Bin laden?

If we did this ourselves, why not blame it Saddam? You need the tightening.

wow
HARD landing!

War is not some painless , bloodless video game. If more pictures like this were shown by mainstream media, half of those pro-war " good americans" would puke and demand an end to this madness. Support our troops.....bring them fucking home now and dismantle the war machine.

...you have no argument to tighten.

Instead casting aspersions why not try answering the questions with an honest look at the available information?

As to why?: Fake Terror The Road to Dictatorship: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/index.html

An interesting article: "Stranger Than Fiction": http://www.voxfux.com/features/stranger_than_fiction.htm

The most exhaustive information on the subject: http://cooperativeresearch.org/completetimeline/

The question is: 911 WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

Mark - You've managed to draw out Diogenes. Now his silly 9/11 conspiracy theories are laid bare for all to see. He's dumber than dirt. His real name has to be Michael Moore. No two people could be that dumb.

They certainly qualify.

...as those who will not see.

"When every other possibility is eliminated whatever left, however improbable, is the truth." Sherlock Holmes (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)

Diogenes, you DID advocate fratricide. Admit it. You rhapsodized at length to your little girlfriend Sheepdog about how proud you were of your dad and his unit getting rid of 3 American lieutenants. You suggested that the same thing should happen in the US Army if it attacked Iraq. You are a lying snake and you know it.

If you want, I'll gladly produce the relevant quotes.

wow
slug vs snake

bitter justice if you must.

all america's former allies now come back to bite america in its ass.

yes saddam and osama have turned on the US

perhaps its time for the US to stop funding terrorists and supporting brutal dictators around the globe

Any of you guys mastubate over these hot pix yet?

Diogenes, I feel sorry for you. With all your grandstanding, and educated quotes the best you can do is spill out the regurgitated thoughts of others. Have you no original thoughts. I feel sorry for how your life must be, how you must view the world and this country. You say you cry for country, but you must HATE the United States if you believe any of what I have read at the sites you referred us to in your recent post. I fear people like you. I fear the influence you may have over the weak minded that they may believe all the bullshit that comes out of your mouth.

Go fuck yourself!

wow
mark off
wow.

Just so there is no confusion about who said what.

There is always a solution for suicidal leadership.
by Diogenes • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 06:45 PM

Now mind you now this is just a story and I know nothing about it first hand mind you, but did you know that sometimes excessively gung-ho glory hounds have accidents?
And it seems to have a long pedigree. My Dad - A Scout-Sniper/Recon during "The Big One W W Two" mentioned once that they went through 3 Lieutenants before they got a keeper.
I wonder what happened to them?

REFUTE THIS.

...I do not hate my country - it is it's corrupt government I am not awfully fond of.

And it's paid agent apologists - like you.

You have no rebuttal - as is proven by resorting to personal attacks.

Ditto Simpleton.

A rather dishonest form of argument but sometimes it can trip the unwary.

He quotes without the disclaimers which went along with it. Namely that I clearly stated that:
A. My father did not approve of the Practice.
B. That as a Scout/Sniper Recon Squad Leader he was gone of Behind The Lines Missions when the "Fraggings" occurred.

He's just trying to get my goat. However I can milk that Goat to show just dishonest Psympleton is.

You're a damn liar, Diogenes.

THIS is the first time you said anything, anywhere about your dad being 'away' at the time of the murders.

What I reposted above was your initial post. After being taken to task for it by me, you posted some subsequent weaselings excusing your father's actions and trying to distance him from the act which you PROUDLY presented as a good example of what should by done by our troops today.

At NO TIME did you EVER say that your father 'disapproved of the practice'. Furthermore, HIS opinion isn't relative.

Anyone reading this CLEARLY sees that YOU APPROVE of this sort of behavior.

Of course, you could provide us all with the quotes which prove your point - if they only existed.

Check and Mate.

My, my, my Mr. Fed Up.
We sure do have a problem with anger.
You use a lot of violent words for a man of 'peace'. Oh well, we are all nicely shocked at you now.

"A women" certainly does have a point though. Murder by anyside is wrong. The top photo looks like an execuation to me. Executing these mechanics should not be done any more than Americans should execute vietnamese, Russians Poles, etc.

Sorry you can't seem to see that. Your moral void casts dicredit on the cause. You are clearly supporting Saddam's thugs while condemning Americas.

If you are a Baathist facist you can do this. If you are a GOP facsit you can condemn this murder and ignore the invasion. If you call for peace and ignore either one you are a damn hypocrite. You and Sammie seem like hypocrits. The poor 'women' you crudely and courageously 'yelled' at sounds like a true believer in peace.

It takes one side to have a war but two sides to have peace.

Fuck those Iraqi bastards! Fuck the whole fucking lot of them. I say fucking nuke that county. Kill the pricks and take every last fluid ounce of their oil.

It's one thing to kill your enemy in battle, but it's another thing to desecrate their bodies by using them as propaganda for their blood-thirsty Arab audience. It says volumes about the way these people think and live to have shown that footage on Arab television and call it news. Fuck those animals.

And for them to violate article 13 of the Geneva Convention so blatantly...you can tell they've been beating that one POW up...looks like they broke his nose. Then shoving a microphone in his face like that. Those Iraqi fuckers are nothing but animals. They don't deserve to live another day.

And their troops are putting up white flags to lure our marines in, and then gunning them down. They have no respect for the rules of war. Animals. Every fucking last one of them.


Nuke Baghdad.

DUDE

Thats what I'm talkin about nukeemall and let god sort them out.

I saw a great piece on CSPAN the other night, where they had interviews with several POWs from the Gulf War. Everyone should really check it out.

They all said essentially the same things, only in different words. It could be summarized with:

1. Iraqis have no regard for the articles of the Geneva Convention on the treatment of POWs

and

2. While each of those soldiers/POWs made the ultimate sacrifice for their country (losing their freedom), they all solemnly stated that they did not regret it and that they would gladly do it again.

Only after having a gun put to your temple and the trigger pulled, for your country and for freedom, can you claim to be a patriot.

Those soldiers are heros. And everyone of those POWs above are heros to me. I'd gladly trade my own life for theirs right now. May God be with them and bring them safely home, and may he grant President Bush the wisdom to utilize decisive force and end this war quickly.

DUDE thats wht I'm talkin about.

yea you , you fucken embecile saddam has everything to do with terrorist, by way of being a manufacturer of WMD . What's the matter you have no fucken common sense. FUCK YOU

How can anyone seeing dead soldiers lined up on the floor with bullet holes in their foreheads not think they were executed?
Where is the moral outrage from the Media, from the Hollywood bunch, Michael Moore, and all those that stress peace at all cost, and condemn the President for his actions. Are they in favor of the, thugs, rapist, murders and the like that head the Iraqi regime. In favor of these deranged animals, which cause unspeakable human suffering on their own people.
Where is the outrage for our Executed American soldiers, sent in to free the people of Iraq, from this kind of oppression? Where?

Why am I such a brainwashed moron?

I have read all of your statements/arguments. I wonder how many of you have friends or family members in the military? None of us WANTS to be in a war. We understand our duty and we are honored to defend our country. We would rather be home with our family and friends than defending people who do not want us there or being derided by our own countrymen. I, personally, do not want this war but it is not my choice. How many of you have signed up to fight for America? Muslims are not our ememies, people who misuse religion, ANY religion, are.
As far as September 11th, I LIVE in New York and I was on duty that day. I lost two people (that I know of) and almost lost several others. The sight or its aftermath ARE NOT debateable, it was and is devastating. September 11th should not be used for propaganda purposes or "conspiracy theories". The same "uneducated" people study law, medicine and other intellectual courses in "their" countries. They are from a group of people who are currently luring our troops into traps, so they obviously are not that STUPID!
I pray for all world leaders to use prudent judgement and the safety of all of our family and friends.

you are a pice of human garbage you hopefully will be pictured as the GI s are DEAD SHOT IN THE HEAD

Psympleton is a lying Dickhead. Ordinarily I would not take the time to counter one of his low blows, but I decided it would be useful to turn this one back against him.

In reply to his above LIE here are all the relevant Posts from our prior debate which I am sure he figured I would not be able to dig up. Sorry Psympleton but I frequently archive debates where there has been an interesting debate. (The advantage of having lots of Storage.)

So here are the posts in the order they came down. I have only included the ones under contention and relevant to showing Psymon to be the lying sack of shit that he is - of course I’m sure anyone who has been around for very long has already figured that out; but if you would like to verify the data here is the link to the original Thread in it’s entirety: http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/31516.php


Here is the text from Psymon’s Post from above so that everything is put in proper context:


“You're a damn liar, Diogenes.

THIS is the first time you said anything, anywhere about your dad being 'away' at the time of the murders.

What I reposted above was your initial post. After being taken to task for it by me, you posted some subsequent weaselings excusing your father's actions and trying to distance him from the act which you PROUDLY presented as a good example of what should by done by our troops today.

At NO TIME did you EVER say that your father 'disapproved of the practice'. Furthermore, HIS opinion isn't relative.

Anyone reading this CLEARLY sees that YOU APPROVE of this sort of behavior.

Of course, you could provide us all with the quotes which prove your point - if they only existed.”

----------------------------------------------------- Beginning of Excerpt-------------------------------------------------

There is always a solution for suicidal leadership.
by Diogenes • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 06:45 PM

Now mind you now this is just a story and I know nothing about it first hand mind you, but did you know that sometimes excessively gung-ho glory hounds have accidents?
And it seems to have a long pedigree. My Dad - A Scout-Sniper/Recon during "The Big One W W Two" mentioned once that they went through 3 Lieutenants before they got a keeper.
I wonder what happened to them?

add your comments

Simple
by Simple Simon • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 09:10 PM

So, you're saying you're the son of a murdering coward? I never would have guessed. Although, it's probably the only way I could see anyone of your lineage shooting anyone - in the back.

The airman's wet dream of fragging the bad lieutenants. It must have been a bitch shining and fueling those planes so the college boys could fly them and get all the chicks. But son, that shouldn't make you want to kill them.

You're more messed up than I thought.

add your comments

You dirty Son of a Bitch
by Diogenes • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 10:15 PM

I said he talked about it happening. He also specifically said he did not take part. He did not approve. But it did happen.
Further I think the 3 Purple Hearts, Legion of Merit, Two Bronze Stars WITH V's, and a raft of lesser decorations speak more to what he was about. Most of the time he was on detached duty behind lines running naked with his squad and away from the Platoon to which he was theoretically attached.
And even had he been involved I have no use for so-called leaders who will expend the lives of their men for their own advancement and glory. If they have accidents well, self defense comes in many forms.



add your comments

Footnote
by Diogenes • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 10:21 PM

You obviously have no clue as to what a Marine Scout/Sniper was or what they did. One shot, one kill.



add your comments

You aren't even warm.
by Diogenes • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 10:31 PM

My knowledge of aircraft is purely from a distance and from having friends who did work on them. Actually pilots are not that bad. From what I hear they generally treat their support crews decently. Of course turbines are delicate things and they can require an awful lot of maintenance and if a part "breaks" that you don't have on hand that pilot don't fly, and boy do they hate that.

add your comments

Diogenes,
by Sheepdog • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 10:37 PM

The Simple one uses low blows as part of its toolbag.
Some jerk called my dad an asshole for fighting the facsists
in WWII & Koria and I just concidered the source.
He got a 201 file covered with purple harts, clusters,
and citations that needed another page to hold them.
This kind of individual never fired a shot in anger, you can bet your life.



add your comments

Thanks Compadre
by Diogenes • Thursday February 27, 2003 Thut 10:47 PM

I guess I should not have let it affect me but I still look up to my Dad. What he did was not an easy job - he would not even talk about it much except when he was really loaded. But I picked up pieces from him and stuff my Uncles told me about what he did. There were men who did more than he did, but there weren't a lot of them.



add your comments

Simple
by Simple Simon • Friday February 28, 2003 Frit 08:49 AM

If you two girls are through playing kissy-face, can we get back to my kicking your asses?

Diogenes, you BRAGGED that your dad, a combat soldier, was in a unit that MURDERED three American military officers. You DID NOT say that your father didn't participate. If you don't beleive me, look at your post:

"Now mind you now this is just a story and I know nothing about it first hand mind you, but did you know that sometimes excessively gung-ho glory hounds have accidents?
And it seems to have a long pedigree. My Dad - A Scout-Sniper/Recon during "The Big One W W Two" mentioned once that they went through 3 Lieutenants before they got a keeper.
I wonder what happened to them?"

Furthermore, your father, whether he particpated or not, is an accessory after the fact for failing to report the murdering scumbags who did the deeds. So he is either a killer or a coward. Take your pick.

The question is, what was your point in posting this story in the first place? Are you suggesting that our soldiers should similarly execute their officers?

I, and others, have been excoriated by you and your fellow travellers for questioning your patriotism. You have repeatedly accused us of stupidity, and claimed we haven't grasped that people of good will could be against the coming conflict. Now you trot out tales of 'fraggings' after accusing the President of 'treason'.

Yep, you sound like a person of good will who is just opposed to the war on ideological grounds.

Again, the apple never falls far from the tree.

add your comments

Not so simple
by Diogenes • Friday February 28, 2003 Frit 09:18 AM

So be it. Since I know you to be a low blow artist the shock value works once and only once. Given that the closest you have probably ever been to a real Combat Zone was a John Wayne movie the shock value works even less.
Taken at a philosophical level - if you are in a real Combat Unit which is already taking serious casualties just from doing your job and then all of a sudden you get some clown who is more interested in Medals and Promotions, disregards the welfare of his men, well what do you expect from a group of Battle Hardened Combat Soldiers. Tea and Crumpets? Thank you's for the opportunity to die for your next ribbon? They want to accomplish their objective and live to tell about it. Their JOB is not winning medals for some asshole. There is enough of that if you just do your job well.
That does not mean I approve of the practice, but I can see the moral gray area - who is the bigger enemy? The opposition or the glory hound more interested in selfish personal interests? It is an interesting question.
With your attitude I think I would wear a flak jacket and keep a couple of the more popular guys in your Platoon next to you all the time IF you ever go into a real Combat Zone.

add your comments

There is a solution.
by Diogenes • Friday February 28, 2003 Frit 09:34 AM
Take care of your men and they WILL take care of you. If you as a leader exhibit good leadership and do not demand unnecessary risks your men will come to trust your judgement. Good Officers and Non Coms EARN the respect of their men. If you earn their respect they will do for you things that glory hound asshole we were speaking of, in theory, could never get from his men. They'll even die for you.

------------------------------------------------END OF EXCERPT--------------------------------------------------

As I think anyone can see from reading through the relevant posts that Psymon is a lying sack of shit.

I suspect he figured I would be unable to dig up the appropriate references to refute his post.

You’re getting sloppy Psymon. Desperation? Tired of getting your ass kicked whenever I feel like it?

Oh Well. Fuck you very much.

As a final note I want to dispatch one comment seperately:
“Anyone reading this CLEARLY sees that YOU APPROVE of this sort of behavior.”

No Psymon that is not apparent from the above thread. I understand why it happens - and I have not made up my mind one way or the other. I don’t like the idea of it, but I also do not like the idea of a leader willing to sacrifice his men’s lives for his own advancement. Thankfully I have never been in that situation so I never have had to decide firmly one way or another.

Hey everyone, lets go have a rally tormorrow in support of the Republican Guard because thats who we have been supporting in this war. I jerk off everytime I see one of those Republican Guard on TV. Its too bad they are getting their asses kicked by soldiers of freedom. Why can't we just keep this repressive regime. C'mon people follow me into the streets and others will follow. I love Saddam and want him to give it to me some time after he's done torturing some innocnet people. I wanna be his Monica. Can someone hand me a cigar? Also I want a foursome with Saddam, bin LAden, and Arafat who all are a bunch of homos.

what with all the battle-scarred ground-pounders all in one place. You'd think we'd all be on the same side, since at some point we've probably all fought next to one another on the battlefield. But I guess that's the price of freedom.

I've read through all of your garbage. I'll try to post my (unbiased) resolution of this inveterate repartee.

>>>Direct quotes<<<<<<<<<

Diogenes: "My Dad - A Scout-Sniper/Recon during "The Big One W W Two" mentioned once that they went through 3 Lieutenants before they got a keeper. "


The quote that started it all. Take note of the the keyword in that sentence. "They". This implied that Diogenes' father was involved in the warcrime of murdering his superior officers. That is what Simon keyed in on. However, it could have been unintedned by Diogenes, but it was very uncareful writing.

Diogenes, if you're going to accuse others of treason, you shouldn't appear to advocate it in your words.


Diogenes: "I said he talked about it happening. He also specifically said he did not take part. He did not approve. But it did happen. "

Regardless of whether or not he "took part" or "approved" he was guilty through association. He did nothing to prevent it. He knew about it and he reported nothing. That makes him a traitorous coward.
Regardless of the circumstances. Regardless of the opinions of the troops. Those officers may very possibly have been following orders themselves.

Anyone who has no experience with what this discussion has been about should see the movie "Hart's War" (2002) with Bruce Willis. That movie might shed some light on this discussion for you.

Far be it from me to sit in judgement of all of the most idiotic things I have ever seen in my 30 years of life. For some stupid reason I watch this bored to remind myself exactly why I am "proud to be an American".
Our military are over in that God Forsaken place for exactly the reasons you leave these obscene and well frankly uninformed messages. FREEDOM TO BE! FREEDOM TO SPEAK! FREEDOM TO WALK DOWN THE STREET AND PRAISE WHOMEVER AND WHATEVER THEY WANT! Under the rule of Saddam children and woman are tortured on a daily basis so thier male counterparts husbands, fathers,etc. Will do what he wants. He starves his people for power, he kills them for fun. OIL has nothing to do with my we are there. I am proud of those men and women fighting for the Liberation of IRAQ and believe it or not idiots they are PROUD of what they are doing, but nooooooooo You all have some pent up hostility for the goverment you helped elect, don't like it here shut up or get out! Of course unlike IRAQI people you have that right!

I've been wondering, if things get real messy around Baghdad, do U.S. troops have an escape hatch planned to get the heck out? I've heard lots of over confidence expressed that winning is certain , but no mention of how they will get our troops out of there if need be.

It seems like every Iraqui & their mother has Ak 47s' and hand grenades. How do the allied forces reckon to wage a war inside Baghdad city given the tactics Sadams' troops use, and assuming there are thugs with weapons down every dark alley.

There is no doubt that the Coalition Forces will win this war, but it will not be a walk in the park. If it comes down to fighting in the streets of Baghdad the Coalition Forces can sit out side with food and water. The people can chose trading weapons for food and water, while the Coalition picks off Saddams Thugs.

We will just smash each and every city with the one
thing the U.S. has in quantity; H.E.
As Bush Admirer says:
-So what's a few dead Iraqi kids...it should be obvious to everyone that Americans
are better, that our souls go to heaven while Iraqi kids end up disappearing or
worse. They deserve their fate. This is something our President understands but you
liberals refuse to believe. And guess what...you are next.-
He may be correct if we don't stop this. We ARE next.

You people drive me crazy! If you watch the news or maybe pick up a newspaper( I know you can read) Schools have been canceled and most children have left the city. ALSO Attacks are only being made on KNOWN military and regime targets. Get real people my God do you guys sit around on asses just to complain, and passalong half truths and mere hear-say?

It's a short drive for you.
Reading the Newspaper. Watching the television.
All in lock step for this war as a 'Free press' should
be. If you are cheerleading this slaughter, you don't even
need to pack, you are there now.

You damn right I'm there and have been since January!
No I am not a soldier, but I am an Air Force Nurse, I have in last few days gotten to witness what this war is all about and what the faces od death look like. We patch them up here in Germany and Let me tell you, they beg us to Release them so they can go back out and fight! So Sheepdog get your foot out of your mouth or ass not sure yet the difference and Support your country and Believe in the cause because these men in women over here do!

I'm still undecided about this war. Of course the allied & US troops are the ones to root for because they are my home team. I whole heartedly believe & agree it is a just cause...

On the other hand I have some empathy for the common man in Iraq(although none whatsoever for their militia). Let's say hundreds of thousands of people from Milwaukee, Des Moines, Fargo, Rapid City... marched into my hometown, Minneapolis, and totally trashed it out in the process because they thought Jeese Ventura had no business having been the governor...it would get alot of people here teed off. This is a rotten analogy but hopefully you get the point.

I do feel that somehow the coalition could have pulled off a much cleaner covert operation without having resorted to Yosemite Sam politics and claiming squaters rights in their yard.

Get your tongue out of Bush's ass.
Been there done that, sweetcheeks. It was crap then
it hasn't changed.
Patch em up but remember you oath. DO NOT CAUSE HARM.
The caduceus is not a badge for death.
If you are pulling for this war, you need a doctor for your
soul.

These same protesters that are protesting a war against Saddam would have protested a war against Hitler. There is no difference, they are both murderers that want to kill an entire race of people. If you want to protest the killing of innocent people then protest Saddam who has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people.

No one person wants war. But we're here, were proud of our men and women serving in Iraq. Barry thats kind of ridiculous I have not seen Jesse Ventura Kill anyone because they did't like there opinion. Saddam did does and will if he is not stopped, maybe its not our war Sheep dog, but let me tell you everyone deserves rights and freedoms, and if you need to throw insults to make yourself feel better so be it. And by the way, My soul is just fine, I believe in God and know he will take care of me. No one roots for the war they just root for our boys to come home, safe...

First of all Sheepdog, the oath says

"First do no harm" not "cause no harm".

Second of all, what are you trying to say to this nurse in Germany? Are you trying to say that she shouldn't patch up the boys too quickly or too well so as not to encourage them to rejoin their units?

Are you actually advocating that a military officer in the medical corps attempt to prevent our soldiers from returning to the field? This is advocation of sabotage.

Explain yourself you vile old scoundrel.

Yes you are there, and I want you to do the job.
Patch em up but don't tell me you support Bush because he
is the meat puppet that brought this on (with his ilk) and
couldn't care less about the serviceperson (he just cut your
benefits, you know) or he wouldn't have sent them into
this mess.
Yes bring those people home, stop swallowing the crap and
telling yourself it's chocolate pudding.

I would really like to know what you do for a living? You see I love my job, MONEY means nothing to me. I became a nurse because I wanted to help people. I joined the Air Force because I wanted to SERVE my country in a capacity in which I could HELP people. I swallow nothing, I chew then I spit out. People like you who know not what you are talking about, who have not or will not ever be standing in my shoes, should shut up. It totally makes me sick, that you people can not look past Ol' George W to see what the real issue is. People are starving, people are being tortured all in the name of one man running an evil empire..

I am a brainwashed moron who can't tell shit from Shinola.

One man running an evil empire? Wait, I've got it! George W. Bush!!! I do find it odd that Christi, being a military nurse in a time of war, has time to hang out on the internet posting asinine drivel.

Its a shame I'm fighting a battle of wits with an unarmed soldier. Grow up. How old are you 12? Anyway people,
Pray for our troops and God Bless you All!

You're no Rush Limbaugh.

Rush wouldn't criticize a woman kicking the crap out of sorry old Sheepdog.

Actually I am on a 2 day on 1 day off shift. We are given MSN here to comunicate with our families via MSN Messenger. So you see I do get time off.

I see, in addition to your other mental handicaps, you cannot read. The name is LUSH RIMBAUGH. And it's the other way around. Christi should quit before she shows just how low her IQ really is.

Oh, ha ha, I get it. Lush Rimbaugh. Not Rush Limbaugh. Ow! What a hoot.

You should take that act on the road, Shecky. Borscht Belt here you come!

Like I said before, having to throw insults to make ones self feel superior, is well how shall I say it........
chicken shit. See while he is on the computer picking fights his mommy is calling for him to take his bath and get ready for school like a big boy........So Sheepdog when you have something intelligent to say about whats going on in the world feel free.....bu-bye

Wow, what a thoughtless response. Thanks for living up to your expectations, Simpleton.

Stop it Lush, you're killing me.

Lush Rimbaugh! Wow that's funny. He he he.

Lush. He he he
Rimbaugh ha ha ha

Seriously, I'm doubled over laughing.

Oh, wait. I've just got to go drop a Sheepdog.

I can't tell my head from my ass. I'm just glad that I'm
Bush's favorite puppet. I am always happy to follow his orders, never having an independent thought of my own. Heil Bush!!!

Yes, Lush, my name suits me well, for I am but a simpleton. My parents had a premonition.

Like I said nothing intelligent, see your digging your own hole, you get on here acting like a complete and utter idiot and no one will ever take you seriously, that's really sad if you think about it. What a waste of the First Ammendment

You see, I really wouldn't know intelligence if it bit me on my fat ass. After all, I'm in the military. We are told what to think by our superiors.

Have some more pudding, I see that you like the flavor.
Use a big spoon.

I don't really care for pudding. I'd rather consume your baby batter, you sexy free thinker.

Is anyone here into scat? I really get off on it.

Kill all the Iraqi's- let "Allah" sort them out

Oh, how I love killing innocent civilians. I really get off on it. I also get off on having sex with their corpses.

Give me a hard-on

The ignorance of the people against this war is amazing. The words I read on this page are a disgrace. We are talking about people who believe in the fight, believe in the American people and our freedom. THAT is why we are soldiers. This war is because we are a free country. This war is because we are nearing a future of losing that freedom. And to make it a Presidential issue. Let us remember that it was Clinton who started this. Bush had no choice. And yes.............the oil...............well, lets think about that. Would you all care to walk your happy ass's around and live in homes with no heat or gas?
This war is SECURING our FUTURE. WE RELY ON THAT OIL. WE RELY ON OUR FREEDOM. Country after country out there is being taken over by governments that thrive on power. WE ARE HATED BECAUSE OF FREEDOM. Because the people of those countries want out and into ours. Their government is offended by that.
Take yourselves back into history people. If you want it like that........ if you'd rather live under a government like Iraq and the so many others like it. Than keep your ignorance and bitch about things you know little of.
Infact MOVE. See if you can stand it. But know this war is about the future America holds. Not just the present.

Fuck you sand niggers those are some gay ass fucking pictures. It's kind of funny that we have killed like a 1000 of you pussys and what have you killed like 15? Yeah we could show our pictures of your dead pussy coward soldiers but we dont because we are quite professionals and killing you doon coons is like stepping on an ant. For my closing statment i want to say that keep showing those fucking pictures because it is making a fire burn within me and other americans to exterminate the world of your pathetic jiberish talking gas station owning pussys.

im with american eagle ! you simpleton fucks! what the fuck are we supposed to do? just sit here bitching about peace when we just got shit on a year ago. if you sand loving towel heads dont like all this war then move to antartica, and if you dont like this freedom then come with me ill make you my slave !

Are all of you people nuts!!!!!!!! We have men and women that are being killed and all you can do is use foul language, (the sign of a demented and uneducated mind) and say how stupid each one of you are. Yes, the United (and I stress UNITED) States of America has made mistakes, after all it is run by humans, and we all make mistakes, but the biggest is to turn your back on your military, because they are out there dying for your right to show your studpid and hate filled comments, no matter who it is directed to. Your right about one thing though if this is what is growing up in this country then it is going to hell, because you all are taking it there just as fast as you can with no love of country, no love of your military and no love for yourselfs. It is truly discusting when a bunch of punks can say what they want about this country, but sure wouldn't want to live in some of the other countries that give all that LOVE to their citizens, especially at the end of a gun barrel. So go ahead you little demons, keep it up, and finally you will get your wish, this country wont be the Land of Free and the Home of the Brave, by the land of disolation and cowards.

Quick Scotty beam me outta' here! there's no intelligent life on this website! I've got the comments to prove it!

Brainwashed are the ones that fall into the leftist diatribe and believe that anything and everything that doesn't come out of a Democrats mouth is wrong.
Brainwashed are those that resort to foul language and name calling in order to make some sort of point.
Brainwashed are those that think that they are making a difference by bashing the United States, instead of actually trying to do something.
Brainwashed are those that think it’s perfectly fine to execute American soldiers, but don’t harm poor ole Saddam he still has a lot of killing years left in him.

If there is intelligent life out there, try this board in Washington D.C.
http://www.wmzq.com/YaBBse/
you might learn something. Warning: you have to have graduated the 6th grade!

For oil do you really think this is about Iraqi oil?
The US hasn't used or tried to buy Iraqi oil for 20 years, unlike the French, Russians and Germans.
It was found that the French have oil contracts with Saddam (in violation of UN resolutions) small wonder they didn't want the US and Britain to go in.
The Russians have been found to be selling munitions and night vision equipment ( also in violation of UN resolutions) and othe war devices to the Iraqi's.
The Germans well their the Germans.
It's not about oil for the US it's about kicking but on sadistic madman and his two sons who have been terrorizing the Iraqi people and the Middle East since 1979.
I can’t believe most of the comments on this board. Are so many of you really that addled in the brain, or do you just get pleasure in seeing how many people you can offend.

This was written in 1973 by Canadian radio personality Gordon Sinclair (1900-1984) DEJA VU??

"The Americans"

The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.
As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.
They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.
The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.
I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.
Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.
When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.
Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.
This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.

http://www.skfriends.com/gordon-sinclair-speech.htm
(download the version with music background)

Broadcast June 5, 1973
by Gordon Sinclair. Born: 1900; died: 1984

CFRB, Toronto, Ontario
ORIGINAL SCRIPT
COURTESY STANDARD BROADCASTING CORPORATION LTD.
(c) 1973 BY GORDON SINCLAIR



On June 5, 1973, Gordon Sinclair sat up in bed in Toronto and turned on his TV set. The United States had just pulled out of the Vietnamese War which had ended in a stalemate - a war fought daily on TV, over the radio and in the press. The aftermath of that war resulted in a world-wide sell-off of American investments, prices tumbled, the United States economy was in trouble. The war had also divided the American people, and at home and abroad it seemed everyone was lambasting the United States.

He turned on his radio, twisted the dial and turned it off. He picked up the morning paper. In print, he saw in headlines what he had found on TV and radio - the Americans were taking a verbal beating from nations around the world. Disgusted with what he saw and heard, he was outraged!

At 10:30, on his arrival at CFRB to prepare his two pre-noon broadcasts, he strode into his office and "dashed-off" two pages in 20 minutes for LET'S BE PERSONAL at 11:45 am, and then turned to writing his 11:50 newscast that was to follow. At 12:01 pm, the script for LET'S BE PERSONAL was dropped on the desk of his secretary who scanned the pages for a suitable heading and then wrote "Americans"" across the top and filed it away. The phones were already ringing.

Gordon Sinclair could not have written a book that could have had a greater impact in the world than his two-page script for THE AMERICANS. A book should have been written on the events that followed. But, no one at CFRB, including Sinclair himself, could have envisioned the reaction of the people of the United States - from presidents - state governors - Congress - the Senate - all media including TV, radio, newspapers, magazines - and from the "ordinary" American on the street. Nor, could have the Canadian government - stunned by the response to what has come to be regarded as one of Canada's greatest public relations feats in the history of our relations with the United States of America.

But, how did Sinclair's tribute to Americans reach them? It had been swept across the United States at the speed of a prairie fire by American radio stations - first, a station in Buffalo called and asked to be fed a tape copy of the broadcast with permission to use - both freely given. Nearby American stations obtained copies from Buffalo or called direct. By the time it reached the Washington, DC area, a station had superimposed Sinc's broadcast over an instrumental version of BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER, and was repeating it at fixed times several times-a-day.

Congressmen and Senators heard it. It was read several times into the Congressional Record. Assuming that it was on a phono (33 1/3 rpm), Americans started a search for a copy. CFRB was contacted. To satisfy the demand, CFRB started to make arrangements with AVCO, an American record company, to manufacture and distribute it as a "single".

As they were finalizing a contract that would see all royalties which would normally be due Gordon Sinclair be paid (at his request) to the American Red Cross. Word was received that an unauthorized record, using Sinclair's script but read by another broadcaster, was already flooding the US market. (Subsequently, on learning that this broadcaster had agreed to turn over his royalties to the Red Cross, no legal action was taken).

Sinclair's recording of his own work (to which Avco had added a stirring rendition of THE BATTLE HYMN OF THE REPUBLIC) did finally reach record stores, and sold hundreds of thousands of copies, but the potential numbers were depressed by the sale of the infringing record. Other record producers and performers (including Tex Ritter) obtained legal permission to make their own versions. In Ritter's case, because of the first-person style of the script, Tex preceded his performance with a proper credit to Sinclair as the author. The American Red Cross received millions of dollars in royalties, and Gordon Sinclair was present at a special ceremony acknowledging his donation.

Advertisers using print media contacted CFRB for permission to publish the text in a non-commercial manner; industrial plants asked for the right to print the script in leaflet form to handout to their employees.

Gordon Sinclair received invitations to attend and be honoured at many functions in the United States which, by number and due to family health problems at the time, he had to decline. However, CFRB newscaster Charles Doering, was flown to Washington to give a public reading of THE AMERICANS to the 28th National Convention of the United States Air Force Association, held September 18, 1974 at the Sheraton Park Hotel. His presentation was performed with the on-stage backing of the U.S. Air Force Concert Band, joined by the 100-voice Singing Sergeants in a special arrangement of The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

8 years after the first broadcast of THE AMERICANS, U.S. President Ronald Reagan made his first official visit to Canada. At the welcoming ceremonies on Parliament Hill, the new President praised "the Canadian journalist who wrote that (tribute)" to the United States when it needed a friend. Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau had Sinclair flown to Ottawa to be his guest at the reception that evening.

Sinc had a long and pleasant conversation with Mr. Reagan. The President told him that he had a copy of the record of THE AMERICANS at his California ranch home when he was governor of the state, and played it from time to time when things looked gloomy.

On the evening of May 15th, 1984, following a regular day's broadcasting, Gordon Sinclair suffered a heart attack. He died on May 17th. As the word of his illness spread throughout the United States, calls inquiring about his condition had been received from as far away as Texas. The editorial in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune of May 28th was typical of the reaction of the United States news media - A GOOD FRIEND PASSES ON.

U.S. President Ronald Reagan: "I know I speak for all Americans in saying the radio editorial Gordon wrote in 1973 praising the accomplishments of the United States was a wonderful inspiration. It was not only critics abroad who forgot this nation's many great achievements, but even critics here at home. Gordon Sinclair reminded us to take pride in our nation's fundamental values."

Those couldn't be the same backstabbing, no military to speak of (50k strong), non-supporting bastards we're dealing with now, could it?

wow
big loss
not.

Why should canada have a large military? They count on the U.S. to defend the continent. Where did most of the terrorist cross into the U.S.? Guess! Everyone looks at the "brown border" while these assholes just drop down the chimney from up top. Name the countries who sided with us. No, really I'll bet half the idiots out there can't do it. Notice a pattern? When we take iraq, let all the backstabbin' bastards pull up to our pumps. Chirac is already bitchin' because their afraid we will cut them out of business in iraq when we're finished. Hmmm...why would we even consider such a thing? Heard of any casualties, POWs or MIAs from france in iraq?

why, did we lose you?

It's very unfortunate that we are so dependent on Mid East oil for our standards of living, and continued fruition of the economy . That probably will not change in my lifetime , although I hope all the stops are pulled out in alternative energy technologies soon. I'd rather live in a friggin igloo with candles and warm clothes and eat a lot of raw whale blubber than succumb to any energy crisis and big corporate interests. Really, America should better unite and start conserving in order to minimize that dependence.

While I appreciate our troops going over to do business with all the bad guys in Iraq, I'm not certain it furthers our personal freedom here. Number 1, when you come home we need to wipe out the enemies which have infiltrated among our own. If that could be accomplished on our turf, weeding out every one who poses threats, maybe Americans can go back to being a little more footloose & fancy free again without being compromised on some of our rights.

Other than that, if you're there fighting, I hope you can get the regime to lay down their arms, and start talking about their feelings when you've got your cannons pointed up their nostrils when you arrive at whatever Baghdad has left for government capitol steps.

More dead yanks = Less killer tanks.

Protesters, your days are numbered. LA has new all Weather Anti-Protester Officers waiting for you now.

I am proud to be a dumb American. I am graduating from the 2nd ranked engineering college in the States, but I must be a complete fool; because I supporting this war. I respect the freedom of my brothers and sisters to speak their minds (freedom), but let us not forget that there are consequences of our freedom. Go out and be part of the anti-war rally, and say you support our troops, but don;t forget that if you are taped on CNN that Saddam has access to that tape, and is probably showing it to the POW's. These unfortunate brothers and sisters whom you say you support are tortured when they see that they dont even have the backing at home. In addition, these video's are shown to Arab countries, which gives them the impression the American people are against this war, when in actual fact the majority are for it. These things will not help us. I like you would love for Saddam to just go away, and let the Iraqi people be free, however, I am trying to be realistic. He will not go away. The Iraqi people can not rid themselves of him alone. Left alone, he will be a threat to us some time in the not so distant future. Bringing our troops home right now and leaving Saddam or his colleagues in power will not lead to a more peaceful world, but will only embolden a ruthless dictator and a multitude of finatic Muslims. Once again, I respect your feelings, but hope you will look beyond your passion. If you want to support our troops, do not become part of Saddams prpaganda machine.
P.S For those of you who support the action our government is taking, please don't use foul language in an attempt to get your point across. I feel your passion, but the use of such language only degrades your argument, and leads others to think you are an uneducated idiot.
God bless our troops, our leaders, and ourselves.
james

I am a brainwashed buffoon. Why? Because that's how Fuhrer Bush likes it.

I just thought I would say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and people should respect that.

i really can't help it. i'm compelled to repeat everything everyone says in my own words. it's a compulsion due, at least in part, by the fact that i have a small penis.

i had to go get a cup of coffee. now we can get back to our game of paddle ball. wait a minute let me check on something. yep. it's still small.

i do. the indymedia folks pay me minimum wage. If i had a bigger penis i might make more money.

but i make them look like they have big weiners.

i've got to go stroke my unusually small penis for a few minutes. Be here when I come back, okay? we can chat some more.

The New X
by The New X • Wednesday March 26, 2003 Wedt 11:12 PM



To Mia P,

I am disturbed and saddened by your comments. With regard to US support of Saddam's atrocities, you said "let the past be the past, focus on the FUTURE." If that is what you truly believe, then you must also forgive Saddam for his actions in the same way that you so eagerly forgave your fellow countrymen. If you believe that U.S. officials should be forgiven simply because they are American and therefore above the law, then you do not believe in justice. Else you hold a rather twisted view of justice.

As for the "FUTURE" statement and as to why human rights abuse and US support of it during Saddam's rule in the 1980s is even an issue, it is because as the United States goes to war to rid the world of a "brutal dictator" who is guilty of war crimes, it is still funding brutal regimes and dictators throughout the world. For example, the Turkish government, who is responsible for despicable atrocities against the Kurds (the Kurds being among the people groups you claim to be liberating), has been offered financial aid in the form of grants and loans in exchange for support of the US war. The Turkish government continues to discriminate and even persecute the Kurds. So in lieu of your argument about focusing on the FUTURE, it becomes obvious that the US government, in spite of your having forgiven them, has not learned its lesson about supporting brutal regimes around the world.

Saudi Arabia serves as yet another example of a brutal regime supported by the US.

Angola, a country which the US has welcomed with open arms into the "coalition of the willing", is currently ruled by a government that is guilty of the EXACT SAME repression of political dissidents that Saddam is. It is a shame that the US even associates with such a government.

Israel is a country that has repeatedly violated UN resolutions, and a country that frequently violates the Geneva convention (be aware that Rumsfield - representing the U.S. - recently condemned the Iraqis for violating the Geneva convention with regard to the treatment of US P.O.W.s. The US has never condemned Israel for its violation of the Geneva convention). In spite of these facts, the US not only provides financial aid, but also military aid to Israel - a country that discriminates heavily against its even its own Israeli-Arab population.

Meanwhile, as the CIA have said, as the FBI has said, and as British intelligence have said, there is no link whatsoever between Osama Bin Ladin and Saddam Hussein. Bush, by saying Al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein in the same sentence numerous times, has managed to convince 51% of Americans that Iraq was inherently responsible for the September 11th attacks. A significant number of Americans also believe that over half the number of hijackers were Iraqi, when in fact none of them were.

As for Bin Ladin's hostility towards the United States, please keep in mind the following: Osama Bin Ladin and the Saudi Arabian regime are at odds - Bin Ladin views the Saudi Regime as corrupt and wishes to overthrow the Saudi government. The U.S. supports the Saudi regime. In addition, the U.S. stations troops in Saudi Arabia who, admittedly fairly enough, Bin Laden and religious figures in the Middle East claim "desecrate" the Holy Land. Also keep in mind that the troops are there for no other reason than to protect the Saudi regime.

Some people have claimed Osama Bin Ladin is simply jealous of the American lifestyle and that is why he is hostile towards the US. By "American lifestyle," I assume they mean the standard of living and equality one can experience in America. Let it be known that Osama Bin Ladin was part of the Bin Ladin family, which owned Bin Ladin Construction, a highly successful, multi-million dollar construction company. Bin Ladin's own wealth was estimated to be somewhere between $100-300 million. Being a rich, prominent, MALE, in OIL RICH Saudi Arabia, one can expect nothing less than the MOST luxurious lifestyle IN THE WORLD. One can expect to be treated like a god. This is a lifestyle that Osama willingly gave up.

So the main points of my argument are:

1) Human Rights abuse should be condemned as those guilty of war crimes should be punished. EVEN if they are American. Being American does not make you above the law... unless you don't believe in justice.

2) The United States will be engaged in a hypocritical war for as long as it neglects to acknowledge its role in the murders of thousands under Saddam's rule during the 1980s.

3) The United States, in lieu of its founding principles, should immediately stop supporting brutal regimes - meaning cease all political, economic, moral and military to support to guilty states.

4) The link between Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein does not exist.

once again sincerely,

The New X

I'm a useful idiot with an ususually small penis. I will mock you all into submission.

Wow! You know how to copy and paste the same message over and over on multiple threads? I was never able to master that. It is beyond my mental capabilities. Wait a second. I'll get my third grade buddy to show me how. After that, I'll screw his tight little butthole.

The subject of this website is about war, POW's, opinions, and more. It is, by far, NOT a website to get your jolly's off and I think what some of the people are doing in here is inappropriate. Can't you find somewhere else to go and be STUPID!

I can't go anywhere else and be stupid.

To Mia P,

I am disturbed and saddened by your comments. With regard to US support of Saddam's atrocities, you said "let the past be the past, focus on the FUTURE." If that is what you truly believe, then you must also forgive Saddam for his actions in the same way that you so eagerly forgave your fellow countrymen. If you believe that U.S. officials should be forgiven simply because they are American and therefore above the law, then you do not believe in justice. Else you hold a rather twisted view of justice.

As for the "FUTURE" statement and as to why human rights abuse and US support of it during Saddam's rule in the 1980s is even an issue, it is because as the United States goes to war to rid the world of a "brutal dictator" who is guilty of war crimes, it is still funding brutal regimes and dictators throughout the world. For example, the Turkish government, who is responsible for despicable atrocities against the Kurds (the Kurds being among the people groups you claim to be liberating), has been offered financial aid in the form of grants and loans in exchange for support of the US war. The Turkish government continues to discriminate and even persecute the Kurds. So in lieu of your argument about focusing on the FUTURE, it becomes obvious that the US government, in spite of your having forgiven them, has not learned its lesson about supporting brutal regimes around the world.

Saudi Arabia serves as yet another example of a brutal regime supported by the US.

Angola, a country which the US has welcomed with open arms into the "coalition of the willing", is currently ruled by a government that is guilty of the EXACT SAME repression of political dissidents that Saddam is. It is a shame that the US even associates with such a government.

Israel is a country that has repeatedly violated UN resolutions, and a country that frequently violates the Geneva convention (be aware that Rumsfield - representing the U.S. - recently condemned the Iraqis for violating the Geneva convention with regard to the treatment of US P.O.W.s. The US has never condemned Israel for its violation of the Geneva convention). In spite of these facts, the US not only provides financial aid, but also military aid to Israel - a country that discriminates heavily against its even its own Israeli-Arab population.

Meanwhile, as the CIA have said, as the FBI has said, and as British intelligence have said, there is no link whatsoever between Osama Bin Ladin and Saddam Hussein. Bush, by saying Al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein in the same sentence numerous times, has managed to convince 51% of Americans that Iraq was inherently responsible for the September 11th attacks. A significant number of Americans also believe that over half the number of hijackers were Iraqi, when in fact none of them were.

As for Bin Ladin's hostility towards the United States, please keep in mind the following: Osama Bin Ladin and the Saudi Arabian regime are at odds - Bin Ladin views the Saudi Regime as corrupt and wishes to overthrow the Saudi government. The U.S. supports the Saudi regime. In addition, the U.S. stations troops in Saudi Arabia who, admittedly fairly enough, Bin Laden and religious figures in the Middle East claim "desecrate" the Holy Land. Also keep in mind that the troops are there for no other reason than to protect the Saudi regime.

Some people have claimed Osama Bin Ladin is simply jealous of the American lifestyle and that is why he is hostile towards the US. By "American lifestyle," I assume they mean the standard of living and equality one can experience in America. Let it be known that Osama Bin Ladin was part of the Bin Ladin family, which owned Bin Ladin Construction, a highly successful, multi-million dollar construction company. Bin Ladin's own wealth was estimated to be somewhere between $100-300 million. Being a rich, prominent, MALE, in OIL RICH Saudi Arabia, one can expect nothing less than the MOST luxurious lifestyle IN THE WORLD. One can expect to be treated like a god. This is a lifestyle that Osama willingly gave up.

So the main points of my argument are:

1) Human Rights abuse should be condemned as those guilty of war crimes should be punished. EVEN if they are American. Being American does not make you above the law... unless you don't believe in justice.

2) The United States will be engaged in a hypocritical war for as long as it neglects to acknowledge its role in the murders of thousands under Saddam's rule during the 1980s.

3) The United States, in lieu of its founding principles, should immediately stop supporting brutal regimes - meaning cease all political, economic, moral and military to support to guilty states.

4) The link between Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein does not exist.

once again sincerely,

The New X

Extra! Extra! Read all about it!

The New X is embarrased by breaking news story!

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/28/1048653833092.html

And now, for some old news. Simple Simon is STILL a simpleton.

If that is true, if they are helping the Iraqi Army, I will not protest against a fight against the people that killed my uncle.

If anything else comes out let me know Simon.

Hey Randy, if you want more propaganda, no, wait, FACTS, check out Fox News.

"If terrorists are found, it would be the first proof of a direct link between Saddam's regime and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the 11 September attacks on New York and Washington. "

Let us see what happens.

The New X

Fox News already told us what's gonna happen. No, I don't think that's suspicious. I have the mind of a child.

...your article proves nothing. First it is from one of the Pet "Journalists" allowed to accompany the Invasion Force and the minute they deviate from the "Party Line" they are on their way home and probably out of job. Hardly an unbiased report. Further it was couched in terms of "may", "possibly" - from the same government that brought you plagiarized Student papers, and forged "nuclear" documents whose intelligence reports the Weapons Inspectors described as "Trash". The report would appear to have no verifiable facts.
Credibility Level = <0.

And even if elements of Al-Qaeda were fighting against the Invasion Force it proves nothing about past connections or cooperation. Most of the Arab World opposes this Army of Conquest. It is drawing Iraqi Exiles back into Iraq to oppose the U.S. Forces of the Just Us Coalition.

My mommy says that you're a meanie.

To Diogenes,

The article is reliable for telling us that there are at least reports (false or not) of Al-Qaeda operatives fighting alongside Iraqis. Let us not jump to conclusions about whether the contents or true or not. Needless to say, I would be more convinced if I were to see the same report on the BBC.

The point remains, however, that the US considered Iraq to be a state sponsor of terrorism even during the time of their support of Saddam. It was PERHAPS because the respective terrorists Iraq sponsored did not pose a threat to the United States that the US government, in 1982, saw fit to remove Iraq from its state sponsors of terrorism list, in order to legalize their arms exports to Saddam.

yours truly,

The New X

ME iS STARTING to think the Iraq armed forces could be pretty much toast without air force power & will die if trapped in the hot dessert. The sand storms already is responsible for killing a number of their troops. My other thoughts are that there has been little mention in the news of how much of their equipment has been decimated with the 1000's of pinpoint bomb drops. It's starting to get extreme
...aint exactly like Spring Break in Corpus Christi as far as having any kind of a a nice welcoming comittee once the US got on their soil. The one Ace card is the (nearly seamless thus far) pinpoint bomb thing. The thing going against is they may not be winning ardent fans with it in or near Baghdad. I don't know if you can just go in shooting like Yosemite Sam and waltz into Baghdad but I could be wrong

...X that we should not jump to conclusions. I guess my main point would be that I don't trust the "Pool" reports very much and it would be wonderfully convenient for the Bush Junta if they could produce a few Al-Qaeda members fighting in Iraq to parade around. However, having said that Al-Qaeda, while not fond of Saddam, despises the U.S. more. So, it would not surprise me to find them fighting against U.S. Forces.

To ARY - I agree that the lack of Air Cover for Saddam's Regulars spells their eventual doom. In the end they will be slaughtered. I am actually surprised they have been as effective as the appear to have been so far. However, the elimination of the Regulars will not end the Guerilla fight. I would expect that there will continue to be Sniper attacks and Guerilla Raids for some time to come. It will become a War of Attrition wherein the Iraqi's will use their knowledge of their own country to their benefit and to the detriment of any occupying forces. In short a bloody mess for some time to come.

Rules of war???

Thank you for not resorting to expletives.
Yes, Turkey is brutal by your standards. However, it is the most democratic of any Muslim nation in the Middle East. We support them because we have a treaty (called NATO) that we signed and ratified when facing an even greater threat, the USSR. (Don't even start on that, Russia recently declassified its files showing that Stalin planned to invade Western Europe in 1953, but died before carrying it out.)
Because the world is a dangerous place, we need alliances to survive. Not all of our friends have the same culture as us, and so do not live up to your high standards. Utopia does not and cannot exist.
While I have my reservations and concerns about the Homeland Security Act, if any party, Republican or Democrat, were as evil as you portray the U.S. government, you would not have made it through half your posts. You would be hanging by your wrists in some damp, dark cell with jumper cables attached to your gonads while the "Evil Bushies" tortured the names of all your friends and like minded revolutionaries from you.
Enjoy your freedom of speech. Soldiers bought it with their blood.

No link between Saddam and Al-Queda?

You seem literate and well read. Tell me, what do you make of the Arab proverb (loosely translated), "My brother and I against my cousin, my cousin and I against a stranger (some versions replace "stranger" with "outsider" or "infidel", depending on which part of the Middle East in which you hear it.)

Hussein and Al-Queda both hate America. They are both Arabic. That's more than most organizations in the Middle East need to cooperate, even temporarily. IIs it really such a surprise?
If British intelligence is sticking its neck out with the usual "probably"s that intelligence organizations rarely make any statement without, could it be that they know something you don't?
Did you mean there is no evidence of linkage? I'm sure you mean that there is no evidence that you know of, at least that you consider logical to find persuasive.
How high is your security clearance? I mean, to make such a blanket statement, surely you have access to information that 71% of America does not have. Or perhaps you are omniscient. Proving a negative is so very difficult, but I'm sure you will find a way. I know you will, because the Left just cannot stand the thought of America winning a war outside our borders. You are so afraid that we have become Imperial, even though we have routinely rebuilt and given back every country we have beaten. We're even good losers, and have provided financial aid to Vietnam in exchange for help looking for MIAs.

It's good to see that with our differences the Military members of the UNITED States of America are STILL UNITED. We speak for and believe in Freedom of Speech.
It's sad to see that with everyone's comments little or now responses were posted regarding what the ACTUAL Military members had to say.
Long Live Freedom!

You really think that this shows a "link" between certain groups?

Yep....just like the French, Spanish, Italian and Romanians are all the same cuz they speak Romance languages.

You are one dumb asshole.

You know, anyone and everyone can come in here and spout off at the mouth about their opinions or feelings, but do you ever think about the American Troops. They have an opinion, but it does not even matter. What they are told to do, they do without hesitation. That is what they are trained to do. Do you ever wonder how many of them are over there fighting against there will. Probably more then you think. They have no choice. When they sign up to be in the Army, Marines, or Navy, they sign up to back up their country in everything they do. They never know what is coming. How would you like to be put in that situation. I think your opinions would not be so harsh if you were standing over there in the middle of the war. I think you would do what you are told and deal with the consequences later. What choice would you really have. NONE!!!!!

These liberals sit in home team's bleachers and root for the visitors.

Basically, they're idiots.

Looks like somebody has been watching too much Fox News...

The incoming highway the exiles planned on taking in was bombed out.

Word has it Vegas has Odds--Over or Under 30 days or something to that effect.. If I was a betting man I'd bet the house on the under. Actually, I am a betting man and have lost the house a few times but whats another house.

If Hussein was any kind of man he'd give it up for humanity. He's a dweeb hiding behind a puppet regime & peons in the villages after a week of assault & the US has only begun to strike. He's becoming encircled, and nearly toast. If it's a quick take over it may also go down in history more favorable.

The North of Iraq looks nice...I'd like to hike there someday when it's made safe to roam

Basically, I'm a nincompoop. Uuuuuuaaaaaahhhhhhhhh...I said POOP.

To all,

The point that I am trying to make is that the US government almost fully conforms to the principles laid down in the constitution - the principles regarding the equality of man, freedom of speech, freedom from fear etc - WITHIN its own borders. What most Americans don't realize is that within the arena of international politics, the US government is not as angelic as they would like to think. Since the US government has no obligation to extend the benefits afforded by the principles it was based on to other countries, it has partaken in many dubious and even devilish dealings.

Since it has no international obligations other than to those it has to agreed to uphold (i.e. geneva convention, Universal declaration of Human Rights etc), the US government, in a strict sense, cannot be condemned for much of its hypocritical international policies. In fact, the hypocrisy and double-dealings are done to ensure the security and well-being of Americans (albeit at the expense of some others).

(Although history has shown that the US government has been very selective as to when and where it should take into account its international obligations)

The very notion of US goverment policies being hypocritical in the first place, however, comes from the fact that the US government and American citizens praise their international policies as being done in the name of "freedom, democracy, justice etc" and all things supposedly American.

I suppose that one could argue that the American sentiment is reasonable. On the other hand though, it perhaps may simply be that the respective American sentiment lacks the four essential words:

"within our own borders."

Sincerely,

The New X

There is justice on Earth!! I´m glad at least a few killers, like the ones you show here, were stopped, and this was the only way to do it, or you think they wanted to work hand to hand with the Iraqi people?Where are you showing the children and civilians head or members blowed, from Iraq? If you support these suicides by the american troops, you should go yourself to Iraq and LIVE the implications of doing it. Do you allow any foreigner to intrud into your country with all those weappons? Why do many call it war, if it is only an advantageous invasion, given the allies coward attitud of launching missils and killing innocents, instead of body to body battles. when I open the website, I thought you had something interesting, and not these parochial point of views and presentation.

THIS IS HOW IDIOTS END.

There is justice on Earth!! I´m glad at least a few killers, like the ones you show here, were stopped, and this was the only way to do it, or you think they wanted to work hand to hand with the Iraqi people?Where are you showing the children and civilians head or members blowed, from Iraq? If you support these suicides by the american troops, you should go yourself to Iraq and LIVE the implications of doing it. Do you allow any foreigner to intrud into your country with all those weappons? Why do many call it war, if it is only an advantageous invasion, given the allies coward attitud of launching missils and killing innocents, instead of body to body battles. when I open the website, I thought you had something interesting, and not these parochial point of views and presentation.

In custody in Nasiriyah
U.S. Marines from the 2nd Battalion 8th Regiment keep an eye on two Iraqi military prisoners who surrendered March 29 after crossing U.S. lines in Nasiriyah in southern Iraq. 030329_war_06

Iraq owned up to their guilt today that it indeed was one of their missiles that hit the market place...
So they shot(isn't that what they do when they fire someone there) the guy in charge of surface to air missiles and are taking job apps for a replacement..

$.20/gallon sounds great to me!!

That IS a great price. I'd be willing to kill some Iraqis to get my gas that cheap. My SUV drinks gas like a fish.

This is for whoever put the picture of the Iraqi POW's in here as inhumane. I got your inhumane buddy. Those Iraqi's have got it made. It is the American POW's that have been treated inhumane. Do you support the fact that any one of those soldiers deserved what they were put through. Let alone point blank assasinations. Those two POW's in that picture are hurting so bad, NOT!! For god's sake, they are lieing on the ground alive with covers over there heads. They are not beaten up, tortured, or killed for that matter. The mother fucking Iraqi's that captured the unfortunate American's tortured them until they killed them. How the hell would you feel in that situation. Oh I forgot you probably support the sons of bitches. You are probably one of them. Those American Troops that were, and the key word is were, POW's are now dead. None of them deserved any of that. The way they were tortured and assasinated was inhumane. They were Army Maintenance people that took a wrong turn and look how they had to pay for that. On the other hand, look at what the American Troops do for you Iraqi bastards. Ya, sure we blow the hell out of them, but we stay away from the civilians when possible. If they are in harms way, then I don't know what to tell them. MOVE!!! They know the war in happening and if they choose to stay where they are they will pay the consequences. If any of them are hurt, the AMERICAN TROOPS take them and then the AMERICAN MEDICS take care of them. I think you need to look up the word inhumane. Get a LIFE!!

I just love trying to rationalize an illegal and immoral war. Nuke those Iraqi bastards! Kill 'em all!!

Nice to see that someone can take the name from an opinion and make it there own and say whatever it is they want. Just so people know, the Opinionated that belongs to me is Inhumane my ASS! Not the next one. I think someone has a tad too much time on their hands. Either grow up or go find somewhere else to play. Chat rooms sound like your ideal playground.

war is never pretty but freedom is...it is a shame that our world is in such a flux. we do not have strong leadership in any sector of our communities, and the confusion is amplified with liars and money grubbers and other mercenary sorts...we need a level playing field for countries to enjoy freedom as they wish. we as americans must give up the illusion we can contribute to the welfare of each nation and to bring home the unwanted. each country has to find their own sense of democracy as they see it without the extermination of elements they don't care to recognize

IF I COULD MEET YOUR DUMB ANTI WAR ASS I WOULD PUNCH YOU AS HARD AS I COULD IN THE FACE, AND WHEN YOU START TO PUNCH ME BACK I WOULD REMIND YOU OF YOUR IDEAH THAT FIGHTING BACK FOR YOURSELF IS STUPID, AND WHEN YOU AGREED WITH ME I WOULD PUNCH YOU AS HARD AS I COULD IN THE FACE AGAIN !!!
AND I WOULD REPEAT THESE STEPS UNTILL YOU FINALLY RELIZE THAT SOMETIMES FIGHTING BACK IS VERY NESCESARY................CRAZY TIM

Way to go, crazy tim. Whenever we asinine conservatives have no valid argument, we can always resort to physical violence. It really helps demonstrate how mentally unstable we are. Great job!

Tell them off! These conservatives are way over the line. Asinine is too good for them. I'm behind you all the way.

That was me. I'm so smart! I'll make fun of gays. That will get them to join me on the lunatic fringe rightwing!

Yet out your troopes and nuke them, before they nuke you.
Yeah that's going to happen if you elected (even when it's 50.0000001 something %) a frustrated son of an ex president who also come out of Texas, we in Europe think that Texas is the dummest state of America.

Yet out your troopes and nuke them, before they nuke you.
Yeah that's going to happen if you elected (even when it's 50.0000001 something %) a frustrated son of an ex president who also come out of Texas, we in Europe think that Texas is the dummest state of America.

Way to go, radioactive. Whenever we asinine liberals have no valid argument, we can always resort to ad homimen attacks. It really helps demonstrate how mentally unstable we are. Great job!

That was me. Aren't I clever? My mommy thinks so!

"...we in Europe think that Texas is the dummest state of America."

At least in Texas they don't leave their elderly relatives to die in the heat while they're on vacation.

Have to bury anybody lately, radioactive?

You buggers are foolish. Isn't this forum for discussion and not for quacks like you? You're all little frustrated bushes.

Thanks! I am KPC/Sheepdog/smashtheleft/ajoyousgay. I change my posting handles more often than I change my underwear.

You are a Fucking peace of shit. You were not there so who are you to say what the FUCK went on and how we should do are business. God I hate people like you. You are a waste of space and you take up good air.

From,
An American Soldier

US is Best Fag Boy!!!!!! Dont like it then leave!!! Just put your rainbow patch down you fag.

"New X "dared write "fucking dumb americans"

But that's only because my balls whapped his chin, knocking a tooth loose.

While we're on ths subject, who let this shitbag into the building? Was the bouncer asleep? Identify yourself, eurofag x. From which smelly country do you hail? Yeah, I'd be fucking embarassed too to admit it. The socialist eurotrash union is a fucking joke. I think Arkansas alone has a higher GDP.

You’re either from one or two places: a country on the side of the WW2 axis or one of the pussy countries that we should’ve let the nazis have. I hope to hell you’re not from England. The English deserve better than the likes of you.

The opinions of some eurotrash asshole who lives where there’s NO Bill of Rights doesn’t concern us., esp. since your opinion (as well as computer machine) could be revoked at any time by your mighty socialist government.

You’re a SERF, a slave, a child of the State not allowed to own a gun, who gives HALF his paycheck to the 'wise' government for a little security.

Fucking numbnuts eurotrash. You have to crane your pencil neck just to see the bottom of an American's boots BOY.

Fuck nazimedia. buncha goddamned iranian simps.

FUCK AMRICAN FUCK USA FUCK BOSH