an american marine threw a few gernades into the 101 calvary base. thats fucken sweet, i guess not all troops are bad

Most assholes that would post something like that don't subscribe to the view and are usually agent provocateurs out to smear.

True activists know and subscribe to the understanding that injustice to any is injustice to all.

FUCK THE TROOPS! any one who volintarily joins the armed forces and puts a gun in their hand deserves to die. they all knew what they were getting themselves into and new that at anytime (especially with bush in power) we could go to war. its these people who go into third world countries and take advantage of their people, rape the women, and kill the innocent. fuck these blood hungry jocks. i dont support our troops at all

How about saying "Support our Conscientious objectors," encouraging naive kids who joined the forces and do not agree with this action to object?

I was at the protest at the federal building in Westwood, CA 2 days ago, with a sign that said


"We support out TROOPS, but NOT this WAR."

and "Blind Patriotism is UnAmerican"

May I also add that blind peace activisim is WAR. and HATE.

A lot of different organizations were represented there, and I received a lot of flyers and papers, but the only flyer that I received THREE of was one titled "SUPPORT our TROOPS? NO WAY!"

Was that you who gave me the same thing 3 times? Because when I got home and read it, I saw that it just promotes hate against people who don't deserve it. So, please email me, because I want to give you your hate literature back. I don't want it, and it has no place at a peace demonstration. Don't do that again.

I know what I stand for. Supporting our troops does not mean supporting the war machine. It does not mean supporting policy. If you think it's that black and white, you're as bad as the people who think you don't have a right to protest the war.

Yes, there are some troops that deserve what's coming to them. BUT we should pity them I think. They've been trained and encouraged to be murderous unthinking monsters. And some soldiers are "forced" into it for lack of options, many are poor, minorities, etc.

Why should we support troops who are murdering innocent people in Iraq? Why support these butcherers that bomb innocent civilians and machine gun children? Are the soldiers not responsible for their actions?

Are you suggesting that because you join the military, you are exempt from being held accountable for murder? I don't accept that. Indeed, it is exactly what the military wants civilians to believe. It is exactly what takes the responsibility of killing away from "our" troops.

If you join, you are responsible for the predictable consequences of your actions. Saying that you were taking orders is no excuse.

Don't support the troops. They are accountable for murder and terrorism (by the State Deptartments own definition).

You know, alot of the people fighting out there are from the reserves. The army uses mass amounts of money advertising to young people, asking them to join. Many people join in order to get enough money for college or whatever. I'm sure there are people who don't believe in killing, yet due to circumstances of poverty have joined for the extra cash.

PITY THE TROOPS!

poor guys

betrayed by the government's bastardness

and the ignorance of the american people

Please let me see some information about soldiers machine gunning children.

As far as them being mindless murderers that is so far out that you do your cause more damage that good.

Again, has anyone thought about the starving people of Iraq that will be free soon. Those that have been imprisoned for no reason, Those that have had thier family members taken away never to be seen again. These are not propaganda statements from the US government, these are statements from exiled Iraq citizens.

Think about that when you spew your vile diatribe.

dude, don't put the troops down. that's just so stupid and wrong.

when most of them go in to the service, they DON'T know what they're getting into, what it means to kill, what they will REALLY be fighting for. They're just fucking kids for christ sake. that's exactly WHY they get them young. most of them are poor, part of capitalism's exploited classes, and the fucking military makes it look like this is a way out--shit, can you blame them, when many of them are facing a future of street life crime, dead-end fast food jobs, jail, or this?

you fucking suck for putting them down. read your history, see how much rebellion there has been in the military. they're not fucking troglodytes who can't figure shit out once they get some real information--especially those who already know from experience what it means to be part of the working class. that's exactly why we've got to be cool with them--they're the ones with the weapons, but the greatest weapon of all, flipping their minds, doesn't cost a penny, and is one of the key things we will need to win this.

Liberate Iraq...Kill Saddam.

The guys knew it sucked al around me when I was in.
The media and wrongly directed public sentiment tore
the Vets from the people at home. We should have joined
forces and won.
Support our countrymen, bring them back!

Simple Questions by Jon • Saturday March 22, 2003 Satt 10:11 PM

Why should we support troops who are murdering innocent people in Iraq? Why support these butcherers that bomb innocent civilians and machine gun children?

Why are you supporting Saddam Hussein and his regime, a tyrant responsible for the deaths of over 1.2 million Iraqis, Kurds, Iranians and Kuwaitis? Why are we reading an increasing flood of reports from Iraqi expatriates who utterly renounce the despot? Why is the Eunuch Nations opposed to enforcing 18 previous resolutions? Are you suggesting we leave such a monster in power? Are you suggesting that all of these things are equal? Are you suggesting that Saddam and his regime not be held responsible for their actions? Are you you really such a pathetic excuse for a human being?

Amanda, I would assume that being named Amanda you are a women. Can you really say you would rather live in a country where you have little or no rights and you are no where near equal to a man. If so I am sure we can get a collection together to buy you a ticket to one of many other countries in the region.

Jon, great post, right on the point.

Dear,
You need to educate yourself on this subject. I can help you with that.

Saddam is the polar opposite of "just" and "dignified." I would truly like to know how you came up with that notion.

Honestly. E-mail me and we can talk about it- Thx.

A moron comment, All the time dancing ever so
lightly around the heart of the real problem.
Lies for enrichment.
Theft for enrichment.
Murder for enrichment.
Treason for enrichment.
It forms a pattern yes?
An Investigation by the people for various crimes is comming
We must put certain individuals into cages for our common
safety. This is if we decide to have mercy.
Your days are indeed numbered so look around.
Decide which side you are on, now.
Collectives are everywhere and you
are the subject of discussion in growing numbers. This has always
been our country and we are remembering this.

...for a lot of reasons. After more years in uniform than I care to admit to I can honestly say I never met a man who joined to committ atrocities.

Most of the guys, and gals, who join do so because they desire to serve - to be of value to the people and country they love.

Are they mistaken? Unfortunately yes. If I knew now what I knew when I raised my right hand to take the Oath I would never have done it.

However I have walked in those Moccassins. And I can tell you that the vast majority of those men believe in protecting children not killing them. Their trust and honor has been betrayed. While those who do committ crimes should be brought to the Bar for those crimes most are their because they believe it is their duty. That their desire to serve has been perverted into an evil war by sick and twisted people does not mean they are. Judge them for what they are. Mostly honorable people.

One can oppose this war, and the actions our loyal Citizen-Soldiers have been led into, but one does not have to hate.

I would like to apologize to everyone on this board. My name is being falsely used and I did not make post: "I hate the US forces and hope they are all killed. Sadam is a just and dignified leader."

I have posted elsewhere on this board that I am for peace and that I do not wish harm to anyone (including the person who is abusing my name and especially the troops- I want them home safe and alive!)

I am truly sorry that this kind of abuse happens. i am sorry to all of those who were offended by the comment.

Peace be with you,
Amanda

Fucking dumb americans

"we are defending ourselves from future attack"

hahahahah
fucking dumb americans

take communism
divide it by terrorism
and you get uneducated middle class fucking dumbass americans and their paranoia led by old fools who have dry constipated shit that stinks like a motherfucker.

they didnt fuckin learn from vietnam. vietnam was just a civil conflict. they mistook it for a worldwide communist conspiracy. domino theory? what bullshit. communist vietnam later invaded its neighbour to put down a communist uprising.

for god's sake America

the world is not out to get you

they hate your guts for obvious and justifiable reasons
but they have better things to do than bomb you: like enjoying their lives for example. also, they like to make fun of you a lot because americans are so stereotypical and predictable. heheh i always laugh when i see someone driving down the street with an american flag taped to their car holding up dumbass american signs saying "support our troops". such typical meaningless idiotic behaviour. i believe americans refer to it as "patriotism"? well in other countries, patriotism means standing up for the principles that the country is based on. also the world feels sorry for you because to be so blunt... the average jimbob american isn't very bright at all. also, even though its the 21st century, americans still live in houses made of wood.

so let me break it down for you

all you have to worry about at this point is a certain organization called al-qaeda

they actually dont have better things to do than bomb you

so leave saddam alone
and go for osama and his cronies

once you get osama, if you get osama, it would probably be wise to stop funding brutal dictatorships and opposition groups (i.e. mujahideen during soviet invasion of aghanistan) all around the world. so that then people like Osama and (ok let's just say) Saddam won't, in the future, come around and bite you in your ass. then withdraw ur troops from saudi arabia.

like 7up, its "always a better choice"

oh yeah and one more thing

please, give up 60" TVs. instead, buy 52" TVs and put the money you save into your education system because really, you americans are quite fucking dumb. i haven't yet figured out if its ur mental capacity, considering most of you descended from third class peasants, or if its just your poor education system.

either way
i wish you only the best america
in theory, your country is based on some good ideas. why don;t u try to actually make ur country a "land of justice and beacon light of hope and peace". if you are interested in taking that path, let me know, i will be more than willing to help you morally and financially.

lastly, peace
p.s. even tho i make fun of you. i still love you guys. americans are very friendly people. just that they are not very bright. hell... theyre fucking dumbasses.

The New X by The New X • Sunday March 23, 2003 Sunt 10:33 PM One word for you X - "Prozac". Actually more but you get the point. For such an amazingly cosmopolitan individual such as yourself to lecture anybody on intelligence with such a limited vocabulary is priceless. For right now I guess only time will tell though.

fucking dumbass.

It is absolutely appalling the amount of hate coming from the so-called peace movement. And the trouble is, the hate is directed towards America. I see only wishy-washy condemnations of Saddam, except when I see outright support. Some of the reactions I see can be summed up as, "Support peace or I'll kill you!" Does anyone besides me see the lunacy in this?

I truly do not understand how the left can be so terribly, terribly misguided. It must be absolutely awful to hate your country and yourself so much.

But what really annoys me is the fact that so many people villify the very system that lets them do it. How hypocritical is that? The Constitution...which I swore to God to protect from all enemies, foreign and domestic...lets them do it, but their arrogance and self-righteousness blinds them to their hypocrisy.

Yes, I serve the United States in the Air Force. My service helps guarantee your right to crap on America. (BTW, you're welcome.) I am not a baby-killer; I don't rape and pillage. This isn't the 13th century, people. Grow up, do a little research (someplace with a little better grasp of reality than indymedia), and think hard about your position.

Dave

It seems you have fallen for a common bait tactic.
the post from our snotty European friend was agiprop
spam to draw in a dialogue.
We are the people, this is our will and our right to
dissent.
What's the problem?

To airforce guy

"But what really annoys me is the fact that so many people villify the very system that lets them do it. How hypocritical is that? The Constitution...which I swore to God to protect from all enemies, foreign and domestic...lets them do it, but their arrogance and self-righteousness blinds them to their hypocrisy"


what goes around comes around. americans supported saddam and osama back when they were fighting other people. they now come back to bite u in ur ass.

perhaps that is a message to America stop funding terrorists and brutal dictators around the world.

WHISKEY JACK , was my Call Sign in Viet Nam. I fought in a Paratroop infantry Company with the First Calvary Division.

I survived three major battles with the NVA at Hoa Hoi, at Kim Son and finally on LZ Bird. This, in a time period of seven months. I was re-assigned to lead a LRRP/Ranger team on missions for Division HQ and HQ Company LRRP.

I led six man patrols on seven day missions deep into enemy held territory and in all of this, I lost many comrades and brothers.

I never saw one American soldier kill a child or for that matter an unarmed civillian. In fact many times soldiers were killed trying to avoid killing civillians and that was a major difference between us and our enemy, who killed anyone they thought was not in line with them, and us.

Once, a man under my command gave me the impression he was going to rape young villager and I threatened to shoot him on the spot . He relented and saved his life.

At hue (pronounced "way")the NVA slaughtered over 5,000 civillians and dumped them in mass graves.
I saw with my eyes the large numbers of peaceful civillians tortured and murdered by the NVA/VC but those truths were left behind by Mi Ly and the terrible incident there in which over one hundred civillians were murdered by out forces.

For the most part, the men I fought with were fighting to free the people of Vietnam from what we saw as a life under communism. Today they live that life but communism is on the wane everywhere.

If Vietnam obscures your vision because we never achieved victory then look to Korea. Is there a difference between the lives lived by the South Koreans and the North Koreans. Which people live in freedom and some level of creature comfort. Would you like to live under the regime of the North Koren dictator?

Are you all blind as to the truth about American reasons for this current conflict.?

Yesterday nine marines, nine valiant young American heros, died taking the fake surrender of "iraqi troops" . If they were their to murder people believe me, those Iraqi that killed them would have been long dead before thay got the oppourtunity to spring their ambush.

The iraqi soldiers, in a seperate incident, executed American prisoners. Can you see the difference?

The war protestors of the Vietnam war era gave strength and sustanince to the NVA and caused the continuation and eventually the loss of that war. By doing so they were killing American soldiers in the field. I still morn their senseless loss. That being they died for nothing and never did free the Vietnameese from communism.

At the end of the war not one protest was heard when the NVA slaughtered some 1 million in Vietnam and the Kimer Rouge murdered as many as 8 million in Cambodia. I wondered if the protestors were against killing or just against SOME KILLING. They surley killed millions in Vietnam and Cambodia.

On June 11 2003 the First Calvary Division Reunion will be held at Kelleen Texas. If you need to know the truth about why men and women serve their country come down and talk to those that did. If you think soldiers join the service to kill and mame innocent civillians than come talk to those that fought in war and did so trying to SAVE LIVES.

Listen to idiots talk about something they never expierienced and you have become a sheep to propaganda and fictional thought.

I am Mike McCoy
US Army Airborne Ranger
Forever

Then get them the HELL back here.
Full medical, dental and education.

When the job is done and the people of Iraq are free of the terrorist they will come home and this Ranger will be their to cheer them on.

For those who faught for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know>

Your shit is weak.

Yea, I noticed how your strong counter argument just dismanteled every point I made. It's a miracle of debate the way you expertly crushed my post. My god you're elequent!

glad they trained you so well.
Also if your accounts are accurate your
tour was honorable if misguided.
Wasted lives and unless you are TERRIBLY ignorant of the
'war' in Viet Nam, you would know it was another CIA contrived conflict, which served to kill a group of folk
and reap huge profits for all the usual suspects.
Passing that.
Korea.
Another little CIA instigated event that made a lot of money. Got another group of people killed.
See a pattern developing here?

To Air Force Guy - been there and done that. Because the Government misuses the loyalty and honor of good young men and women does make those men and women evil. If you look you will see that knowledge reflected in the behavior of the majority of the Peace Movement. Many of us are Veterans. Many have seen the true horror of war first hand - not the sanitized commercials which are represented as the “Nightly News”. If you are listening to AFARTS - then know you are being given exactly what the PsyOps people want you to have. The alleged “Hate” you see is Outrage at what our government is doing in our name. It is not “hatred of America” is opposition to policies that are contrary to the best interests of this country and which benefit a privileged few.

To our dear Airborne Ranger here is a logic problem for you:
If you have two Evils opposing each other which one is Right?

Yes the Communists were a rather foul lot - War turns some men into animals - for example Lieutenant Calley - and all the other Lieutenant Calley’s that were never prosecuted - and you know they existed. Vietnam was a war waged not to save the South Vietnamese from the Evil North Vietnamese Communists (the government of the South was every bit as brutal and even more corrupt). The War existed because Vietnam sat athwart some very valuable mineral and petroleum resources. The Gulf of Tonkin Attack was a Fraud. It was a Civil War which we had no business fighting in. I do not dispute your bravery or sacrifices but just for a moment consider that you may have been deceived and misused. Then start doing some reading. Dig into how our POWs were betrayed by their own government. Read how our brave brothers were betrayed by a government that would not keep it’s word.

“The iraqi soldiers, in a separate incident, executed American prisoners. Can you see the difference? “

How about the VC prisoners who were executed by U.S. forces. You know damn well it happened. So don’t give me the holier than thou shit.

“The war protesters of the Vietnam war era gave strength and sustanince to the NVA and caused the continuation and eventually the loss of that war. By doing so they were killing American soldiers in the field. I still morn their senseless loss. That being they died for nothing and never did free the Vietnameese from communism. “

The objective of the Protesters then and now was the same: Bring an unjust war to an end. Your point is irrelevant as we had no business being there in the first place. It was a war sold by fraud and dishonestly conducted - to the detriment of our fighting men.

“At the end of the war not one protest was heard when the NVA slaughtered some 1 million in Vietnam and the Kimer Rouge murdered as many as 8 million in Cambodia. I wondered if the protesters were against killing or just against SOME KILLING. They surley killed millions in Vietnam and Cambodia.”
Nor have their ever been any protests by the apologists for American Foreign Policy when a “Loyal Ally” slaughtered their citizens. Your point is irrelevant so far as U.S. Policy is concerned. One Evil does not Justify another.

“On June 11 2003 the First Calvary Division Reunion will be held at Kelleen Texas. If you need to know the truth about why men and women serve their country come down and talk to those that did. If you think soldiers join the service to kill and mame innocent civillians than come talk to those that fought in war and did so trying to SAVE LIVES.”

Yes they joined to defend their country not to die in some God Forsaken Desert for Exxon, BP, or Unocal. This War is about Imperial Conquest not American Interests.

GOT AGENT ORANGE?

CIA Contrived? Look man, if you lived through the "Cold War" everything was contrived but that did not mean the communists were not taking over the PEOPLE of Vietnam.

Many say Pearl Harbor was "contrived" to get us into WWII and, so what if thats true?

Had the USA stayed out, today billions would be part of the third reich. If hitler had been allowed to control Europe the USA would eventually fall.

We can't keep punishing the Iraqi people with sanctions, and if lifted Saddam will develop Nukes and all sorts of WMD's and if you think he will not ues them think again.


Inthe days of Vietnam the stopping of the spread of communism was a national security piority and of course the government conspired to start a war to stop it.

Same same Korea... One war failed...the protestors can take credit for that, so the point is:

Where communism was stopped the people prosper . Where the communists won the people live in a form of hell you have no realistic concept of. I saw their work mister. They are and encourage all forms of control of the people by starvation, torture murder and on and on.

Given a choice would you live in Vietnam-North Korea- or South Korea?
Which country can you vote in?
Which one allows protest?
Which has a free press?
Which has secret trials and torture and murder without any limits? Which country has little or no starving people?

Where the protestors when the Kimer Rouge murdered millions who wanted freedom instead of communist rule?

Wanna know something Dog. They killed everyone with an education so they could "re-educate" the remaining people to communist thought.

Can you honestly believe we as a nation of free people can stand by and let this kind of crap go on forever?

Do you support Saddams form of government?
Do you not believe the Iraqi deserve freedom?
Do you not see Saddam is a terrorist and if given the chance WILL help export terror to the USA?

I guess I'm weak but one thing is sure. I'll pick up a gun again rather than be cow towed by terrorists or any other enemy of my homeland and if I could I would join the fight against Saddam and all the dictators of the world. You have NO IDEA how good you have it.

Well I don't see my country as evil so the Two evil bullshit is your problem.

Are you a Viet Nam Veteran?
Tell me about it!

As for the US policy bullcrap you mean to say that the protestors should only defend life when the USA is at war and forget the rest of the world? Do you call yourself humane becuse the US is not doing the killing or are you a racist because the people being murdered are brown skinned and you only want to save white life. Which is it:?

Did US troops ever kill POW's? Yep, but in no way was that the norm and what a neat way for you to defend the murder of American soldiers just yesterday.

It was the protestors who caused the deaths of millions in Viet Nam and Cambodia. Many more than ever died in the conflict.

“Where communism was stopped the people prosper . Where the communists won the people live in a form of hell you have no realistic concept of. I saw their work mister. They are and encourage all forms of control of the people by starvation, torture murder and on and on.”

I am not defending communism so don’t try to divert the debate with a Straw Man. I won’t bite - on that hollow pointless argument. Communism killed over 100 Million People in the Twentieth Century. There is no debate.

“Given a choice would you live in Vietnam-North Korea- or South Korea? “

More of the usual crap emanating from someone without an argument - diversionary tactic having no bearing on whether current U.S. Actions are Just or Not.

“Which country can you vote in?” Read “VoteScam” and then get back to me. Many elections in this country are so crooked that they give at best a fig leaf to “Representative Government”. In the last election cycle 5 Republican representatives were elected by identical vote counts of 18,181 - all were serviced by the same Electronic Voting Machine Company - a Bush Supporter.

“Which one allows protest?” Our Constitution prohibits the government from interfering so it is done covertly. Ever heard of COINTELPRO asshole.

“Which has a free press?”

With the homogeneity of opinion represented by a Media conglomerate controlled really by only 3 companies. Free Press - it is barely breathing and repeats the Government Corporate Line ad nauseam. Again do your fucking homework.


Which has secret trials and torture and murder without any limits?

Read the “Patriot Act”, “Homeland Security Act”, and the draft for the second Patriot Act (not yet passed thank God). All were passed under the Bush Junta. All are aimed at creating a totalitarian state which would allow all your favorite activities - like killing anyone who disagrees with you.

Which country has little or no starving people? This is through no thanks to the government and everything to the spirit of American industry and charity.

Where the protestors when the Kimer Rouge murdered millions who wanted freedom instead of communist rule?

And your point? Would you like it here too?

GOT AGENT ORANGE?

911 - WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

I've made it completely clear that I am a brainwashed moron who's been used by his Uncle Sam.

You do not support communism but you would and do support Saddam's form of government which is OK Right?

YOU called the US Imperialistic. So which conqured country do we rule today lets see.

Is it Japan?
Don't think so.
How bout Germany?
Nope
How bout Communist Russia?
Na
Italy?
Nope
South Korea?
Don't think so?

Which country that we freed from domination do we rule today?

France?
Yea right.
Spain?
Sure
Germany?
No again.
England?
Who is Blair?
What is the Parliment?
Just where is this US Imperialism except in your head. Show me Diogenes.
Your dismissal of my posts as non-arguments shows how illogical your spiel is.
You can not answer because of one simple fact. Your counter arguments cannot sustain your points. You see the defeat of the Nazi, the Communist, The terrorists, Saddam and his murdering friends, as imperialism.

I see it as freedom for me and BILLIONS of others.

The fact that you posted in my name shows that you are a dim witted coward and a complete idiot. You can use any phony name you like and I can't find you to show you what a moron I can really be. So, at least post in some other name you coward looser.

Excuse me Jack but I think you need to correct your prescription - that’s the bottom of Shot glass you are looking at (or through).

“You do not support communism but you would and do support Saddam's form of government which is OK Right?”

You have been hanging out at un-Free Rezpublik too long - you are not used to hearing the other side of the argument since it is CENSORED at “Free” Rezpublik and other Pro-War Hate Sites.
You are too used to telling each other and having unchallenged that opposition to an illegal War of Conquest by the Bush Junta is in American Interests and that opposing an ILLEGAL War is somehow un-American and support of Saddam.
That old PsyOps PR line doesn’t fly here. I know you may find it difficult to conceive but one can both despise the evil of Saddam and the evil perpetrated by the Bush Junta.

imperialism, noun.
1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of one country over other countries and colonies.
Ex. The active imperialism of today is communist (Newsweek).
2. an imperial system of government.
3. the act or fact of dominating another nation's economic, political, and even military structure without actually taking governmental control.
4. support of imperial interests.

Lets See:

Ever hear of :

The Philippines?
Guam?
Cuba?
The United Fruit Company?
Tampico?
The School of the Americas?

Notice Definition 3 above: 3. the act or fact of dominating another nation's economic, political, and even military structure without actually taking governmental control.

You have no case.

History does support my side of the argument but is to some degree irrelevant as what is under discussion is this particular military excursion.

It was sold by lies and deception and now a lot of people are going to die because George Bush is an incompetent crook.

“You see the defeat of the Nazi, the Communist, The terrorists, Saddam and his murdering friends, as imperialism.”

That statement bespeaks so much ignorance that it stands self evidently ludicrous. Jack you need to remove those blinders and stop the self-justifying self-congratulation. The actions of the U.S. Government and the wishes of peace and freedom for others are not one in the same. Our government has supported brutal Dictators wherever and whenever it supported the U.S. Eastern Elite’s PERSONAL interests. The school of the America’s has trained it’s Death Squads. Government of the People, by the People, and for the People is a great ideal. However, it is unfortunately not reality at this point in time.

Started out making some sense but now he's another Eric.
He's not misled. He is just our new camper.
This one will not be convinced any more than our other campers can be.
It's a job.

Where would you rather live WJ? Guatemala or El Salvador. Haiti or Nicaragua.

What's that Orwell line about patriots having all this knowledge about the atrocities that other nation's commit but are curiously blind to the atrocities their own commits?

Ignoramouses like WJ are an impedement to democracy, and, frankly, make me want to puke blood.

Nobody is more dimwitted than I. I allowed myself to be used like toilet paper and I'm STILL in denial!

I'm not trying to whitewash the US and all it's foreign policy. The fact is, above, I freely admit the US has conspired to start wars to further it's own interests. Viet Nam being one Korea being another and perhaps even turning a blind eye to the "sneak" attack at Pearl.

I do not hang around anything or anyone who advocates censorship. To the contrary, you are trying to convince me that Protest is no longer allowed in the US but I have been seeing it everyday and much of it violent. I get it, stop violence through violence, thats the thing you accuse me of.

I'm telling you that nothing is perfect and men are men so governments will make mistakes. The defeat of Saddam can only bring hope and freedom to the Iraqi people. Moreover it can stop the asshole Saddam or his sons, both ruthless murders from gaining more power and becoming more of a threat to the USA.

You do not deny that the above mentioned countries are indeed free because of the USA and somehow I do not see that we control Cuba, El Salvador or Haiti. Bottom line you have no logical answer for our "failure" to take over the countries I mentioned if indeed we are imperialists.

You complain about the Patriot Act and I say if you are not a terrorist what is your fear. I do not see mass arrests and secret trials taking place by the millions. You are free to critisize the government and do so everyday.
Where is this tyranny you claim? Who do you know that has been tried in secret and executed by the USA under this act. Have you informed the "corporate" press and have thay refused to take up the story?

Pol Pot Executed millions and not in secret. So did Joe Statin, Adolph Hitler, Charmain Mou and Ho Che Minh.

Yes we did our share and thats wrong but in the overalll you must seek balance. The weight of freedom and liberty produced by America to the USA and the rest of the world is indeed large much larger than any of the Above mentioned tyrants.

In short, you sill have no idea whatsoever about the true nature of opression you seem to think we in this country are opressed and jailed in secret and murdered by torture and killed for our political beliefs.

That is so far from truth as to be almost unworthy of a response. How long do you think people like Daniel Elsberg would have lived in Nazi Germany or in Iraq today.?

I'm all for protesting government in a peaceful respectful manner and in one that will not be aiding and abetting the enemy to the point where it causes American combat casualties.

I do respect your opinions and in fact I think we must be always watchful of government that is why I will never be anti private owmership.

The Declaration of Independance makes it clear that when the tyranny of any government becomes so opressive as to insult the conscience the people have the right (and duty) to overthrough that form of government by force of arms if necessary.

I feel we are ar from that point in history, vary far. Still, if you feel it is your duty than all you can do is try to destroy our system.

Out of concern for our society, I'm writing you a prescription for every psychoactive medication on the market.

The answer is ANYONE OF THEM over North Korea or Vietnam. Thats a FACT.

Free medical advice is worth just what you pay for it. But thanks for the offer. Now quit posting in my mame you turd.

I think you have stopped just before that last whiskey. I agree about US did over state the actual reality of Bay of Tonkin Events to get the ball rolling in Viet Nam. Find the conclusions wacked out.

finally people are getting to the bottom line.

why is it ok for the US to support terrorism and brutality when it serves its interests?

saddam is a murderer. he should be punished
likewise, senior bush and reagan should be punished too.

they supplied a known bastard with weapons making themselves bastards too.

bastards = put behind bars.

when will the US stop supporting tyranny, terrorism and war around the world?

Most of them are black, so it's either this way or the crack.

The New X:

"what goes around comes around. americans supported saddam and osama back when they were fighting other people. they now come back to bite u in ur ass. " And that pertains the anti-war crowd's hypocrisy how, exactly? The US has supported some pretty bad characters over the years...but only because they were fighting guys who were even worse. The lesser of two evils, if you will.

Diogenes: No, I don't listen to AFARTS. Little too cheerleader-y for me. I much prefer Fox News. "It is not “hatred of America” is opposition to policies that are contrary to the best interests of this country and which benefit a privileged few. " And how is protecting all Americans from the threat of terrorism benefitting the priveliged few? Yes, ALL Americans are priveliged...to live in a country with the highest level of personal freedom in the entire world.

"How about the VC prisoners who were executed by U.S. forces. You know damn well it happened. So don’t give me the holier than thou shit. " Isolated incidents and aberrances. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying it's not a corporate mentality ...as it is in Iraq.

"I am not defending communism so don’t try to divert the debate with a Straw Man. I won’t bite - on that hollow pointless argument. Communism killed over 100 Million People in the Twentieth Century. There is no debate." And Saddam has killed over 1 million of his own people...and that is no straw man; it's here and now and completely germaine. And you know what? Even though you don't support the war, he'd like to kill you, too.

"All are aimed at creating a totalitarian state which would allow all your favorite activities - like killing anyone who disagrees with you. " Do you know anyone who has "disappeared"? Didn't think so.

And finally, New X again: "they supplied a known bastard with weapons making themselves bastards too. " Don't tell me you still believe the leftie lie that the US supplied Iraq with the goodies. Do a little research; France, Germany, and Russia have been awfully free with the chemistry sets.

Whisky Jack, Diogenes, and all other veterans here: This AF E-6 snaps to and renders a crisp salute in recognition of and gratitude a dn respect for your service to our country. God bless you.

For some others here, "Dude, you suck!" is not rational and intelligent debate.

Dave

WJ, I too was at LZ Bird, fortunately I was deployed there after the battle as a replacement for C/6/16th FA, the 155 mm battery.

The carnage is burnt into my memory, and although I may not agree with the present administration's decisions, I stand behind our troops and I always will.

Yank

I may not agree with the Hitler administration's decisions, but I stand behind our Wehrmacht as it rages across Europe conquering and slaughtering everywhere it goes, and I always will.

P.S. - at least the Nazis stuck to THEIR OWN SIDE OF THE PLANET

eat it up, useful idiots

amen! marines are trained killers. sorry if stupid poor folks think this is a ticket to an education but wake up, you're murderers and cannon fodder. go AWAL like mr.bush.

amen! marines are trained killers. sorry if stupid poor folks think this is a ticket to an education but wake up, you're murderers and cannon fodder. go AWAL like mr.bush.