BOOKS NOT BOMBS! - National Student Strike - March 5th, 2003
WEBSITE: http://www.nyspc.net

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Worldwide Demonstrations Build Momentum for National Student Strike
Over 300 Campuses to Walkout for 'Books Not Bombs'

The National Student Strike for Books Not Bombs, will take place March 5th on campuses across the US and the world.  The strike is building a wave of campus sentiment against the Bush Administration’s war plans in Iraq.  The event was originally called for and is being coordinated by the National Youth and Student Peace Coalition (NYSPC), a collection of 15 student and youth organizations whose members organizations represent large and diverse constituencies stretching across the US.

Thousands of students on over 300 campuses have pledged their support for this day of national student resistance. 

On March 5th, high school and college students will demonstrate their collective opposition to the Bush Administration's plans for a pre-emptive, unilateral war in Iraq and call for better-funded and more accessible schools.  Students are also demanding that their campuses serve education instead of war by removing ROTC and JROTC and replacing them with financial aid and college preparatory programs.  They call for local administrative non-compliance with and the federal repeal of the provision of the "No Child Behind Act" which forces high schools to give their students names over to military recruiters or lose federal funds.

"We demand that Bush bring our troops home now.  We don't want to see our friends die in a needless war," said Amanda Flott, a junior at the University of Kansas.

Many students say that the latest round of tuition hikes and aid cuts across the country are a "war tax" on the poor.  "Working class youth will have to fight and die while students at home are seeing their education undermined," said Ben Waxman, a Philadelphia area high school student.  "I want to go to college, not fight for global US domination."

On Feb. 15th, the world experienced the largest outpouring of support for peace since the Vietnam era as an estimated 6 million people worldwide attended protests in over 500 cities.  "Now the campuses are doing our part to stand up for a better tomorrow," said Amanda Crater, a junior at UC-Berkeley.  The worldwide peace demonstrations have significantly increased awareness of and participation in the strike.

Since the initial call to action was circulated by the NYSPC, students across the world have joined on to the Books Not Bombs strike campaign.  In Austraila, Spain, Bulgaria, Canada, France, Brazil, and Scotland students will be striking in solidarity with the US students.  Sarah Ahmed of the Muslim Students Association said, "its the people on the streets and on the campuses across the globe who are giving UN diplomats their credibility to resist this war."

As a prepatory event, students will hold local press conferences early next week to announce their strikes and walkouts.  An as-accurate-as-possible list of high schools and colleges participating in the strike will be posted at no later than Wednesday evening, Feb. 26.  See for more details including a press kit and weblinks to NYSPC member organizations.

***
BOOKS NOT BOMBS! - National Student Strike - March 5th, 2003
 
LIST OF PARTICIPATING CAMPUSES
(Organized by state)

THIS LIST WILL BE MUCH LARGER SOON!
This list is a partial list of confirmed campuses as of 2/27/03.  We 
have a large backlog to post and are constantly receiving new additions 
so keep checking for more. We will update as we are able.
To obtain contacts at individual campuses, or to make 
corrections/additions to this list, contact clearinghouse@tao.ca


Campus Organization(s) City State/Province Country
Hendrix College STARC-180/MDE Conway AR USA
University of Arkansas Progressive Student Association  Fayetteville AR USA
University of Central Arkansas   Conway AR USA
Chico State   Chico CA USA
Claremont Colleges Claremont Colleges Peace Coalition Pomona CA USA
De Anza College Women's Solidarity Movement Cupertino CA USA
Los Gatos High School    Los Gatos CA USA
San Francisco State University   San Francisco CA USA
Sierra College Associated Students of Sierra College, Sierra Students for CHANGE Grass Valley CA USA
Torrey Pines High School SPAN   CA USA
UC Berkeley Berkeley Stop the War Coalition Berkeley CA USA
Colorado University   Boulder CO USA
Glastonbury High School   Glastonbury CT USA
Wesleyan   Middleton CT USA
Howard University Amnesty Int'l Washington DC USA
University of Florida, Gainesville Global Realms, Oxfam, United Students for Fair Trade Gainesville FL USA
Iowa State University   Ames IA USA
University of Iowa   Iowa City IA USA
Moscow High School   Moscow ID USA
Chicago High Schools UC Anti-War Chicago IL USA
University of Chicago   Chicago IL USA
Whitney Young High School    Chicago IL USA
Avon High School   Avon IN USA
Indiana University   Bloomington IN USA
Hampshire College     MA USA
Harvard University   Cambridge MA USA
Mount Holyoke College   S. Hadley MA USA
Salem State College   Salem MA USA
Westford Academy   Westford MA USA
University of Maryland at College Park   College Park MD USA
University of Michigan Anti-war Action Ann Arbor MI USA
UM-Kansas City Muslim Students Association, Campus Greens Kansas City MOI USA
Hellgate High School   Missoula MT USA
Duke University   Chapel Hill NC USA
Keene State College Students For Global Justice Keene NH USA
Bergen Co. High Schools Bergen Action Network Englewood Area NJ USA
Drew University Drew University Coalition for Peace, NJ Peace Action  Madison NJ USA
Rutgers   New Brunswick NJ USA
Galena High School   Reno NV USA
Reed High   Reno NV USA
Sparks High School   Sparks NV USA
Truckee Meadows Community College   Reno NV USA
University of Nevada at Las Vegas   Las Vegas NV USA
University of Nevada, Reno Reno Anti-War Coalition Reno NV USA
Hunter College   New York NY USA
Cornell   Ithaca NY USA
Ithaca High School Peaceful Solutions Club Ithaca NY USA
Marymount Manhattan College   New York NY USA
New School University   New York NY USA
New York University NYU Peace Coalition New York NY USA
Queens College   New York NY USA
Smithtown High School   St. James NY USA
SUNY Albany   Albany NY USA
SUNY Fredonia Fredonia Students for Peace Fredonia NY USA
SUNY-Buffalo   Buffalo NY USA
Miami University of Ohio MU Students for Peace Oxford OH USA
Ohio University   Athens OH USA
Oregon State University Wrench Corvallis OR USA
University of Oregon   Eugene OR USA
Harrisburg Area Community College   Harrisburg PA USA
University of Pennsylvania Penn for Peace and Penn Students Against War in Iraq Philadelphia PA USA
Middle Tennessee State University MT Solidarity Murfeesboro TN USA
University of Tennessee   Knoxville TN USA
Mayde Creek High School   Houston TX USA
University of North Texas Anti-War Operations League Denton TX USA
UT-Austin Campus Coalition for Peace and Justice Austin TX USA
Castleton State College   Castleton VT USA
Johnson State College VSC Network Johnson VT USA
Evergreen State College   Olympia WA USA
Whitman College J.U.S.T.I.C.E. Walla Walla WA USA
University of Wisconsin - Green Bay Campus Greens Green Bay WI USA
University of Wisconsin-La Crosse Greens, Diversity Coalition La Crosse WI USA
University of Wisconsin -  Oshkosh Campus Greens & Student Environmental Peace Coalition Oshkosh WI USA
University of Wisconsin - Madison Multicultural Students Coalition Madison WI USA
University of Wisconsin - Whitewater Campus Greens Whitewater WI USA
University of Utah     UT USA
Asheville High School    Asheville   USA
El Camino College       USA
Everett Alvarez High School       USA
Indian Hills Junior High School       USA
Montclair State-Ramopo       USA
Roosevelt High School       USA
Valley High School       USA
 
*** 
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/01/national/01STUD.html?ex=1047099600&en=c2f78a206ef08396&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

The New York Times

March 1, 2003

Student Groups Plan Walkout to Protest War

By TAMAR LEWIN

Students at hundreds of high schools and colleges nationwide are planning a walkout on Wednesday to protest the Bush administration's plans for war in Iraq.

The student strike is being coordinated by the National Youth and Student Peace Coalition, an organization of 15 student groups that came together after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The coalition, which calls the action "Books not Bombs," has linked student protests against war in Iraq with a call for better-financed schools.

"We're getting about 10 schools a day contacting us to participate, and it's probably about 35-40 percent high schools," said Andy Burns, an organizer who is signing up schools from his office in Little Rock, Ark.

Mr. Burns said he expected about 300 colleges and high schools to participate in the walkout.
Many of the students organizing next week's action have portrayed the latest round of tuition increases at state colleges and universities as a "war tax" on the poor.

"We're walking out of our classes because it's completely ridiculous that students in Iraq, who are exactly the same as us, will have to face the consequences of a unilateral war," said Amanda Flott, a University of Kansas student who is a spokeswoman for the coalition. "Also, at a time when many students are already priced out of higher education, the increase in funding for the military will decrease the money available for education, all to support a war that in my mind is not justifiable."

From Chico State University in California to Castleton State College in Vermont, students are planning a variety of events for the walkout, including antiwar rallies and a mock election, with ballots to be sent to Congress on which protesters can cast votes against the war and for education.

The coalition said that student groups in Australia, Spain, Bulgaria, Canada, France, Brazil and Scotland were organizing strikes in solidarity with the American students.
###

Hi, my name is Genevieve and I am a freshman at a high school in upstate New York. Today is March 4, and tomorrow many students from my school (including me) and others will be walking out in protest of the impending war. I want to take a moment to voice protest against the INJUSTICE of my school administrators.

The students who organized the protest in my school were not trying to be discreet about it, they were handing out banners fairly openly. A friend of mine went to our vice-principal and had a chat with him about the consequences. He said that he wished that the students had come to HIM; he would have put us on a pep-rally schedule (a schedule that allows the last 1 and 1/2 hours to be used for a different activity) and allow those students who wanted to protest to go and do it. He said that UNAUTHORIZED protest *hinthint what we are going to be doing* would lead to harsh consequences; as much as 5 days out of school suspension.

Though I understand the bind that our vice-principal was put in, and I appreciate his support, he said that he would allow this protest AFTER the other way was already publicized and there was no going back. I sincerely HOPE that he actually would have done as he says, but I have reason to doubt this from my past experiences with him.

I am fully planning to walk out of my small high school tomorrow to protest the horrible injustice that Bush is inflicting upon the US. Before this war is over, we will have lost countless family members, friends, lovers, husbands, wives, etc . .. and no one will TRULY win.

No matter what barriers are put up against the younger contingent of protestors, those who are truly for the cause will perservere and be vocal. I am already planning what to do next week . . . .!

everyone in this march is gay if we r goin to war then face it thats what we have to do let it and stop being pussys, and that human shield thing is extremely gay.

ps PUSSYS

I 100% agree with you. You forgot to mention how stupid they are. They wouldn't be doing this shit if they were intelligent people. I respect your message because I can understand the anger someone can feel when they see morons out there supporting Saddam and burning the flag which explains your language. They are in way, "pussies", they are afraid of a draft since this War on Terror may require a draft in the end. I see some of them going to Iraq to be used as Human Shields, then I see a lot of them pussy out because they know we will be bombing all government buildings. They were willing to die for Saddam, but were not willing to defend the American way of life! I just have to ask, "what the fuck is wring with these people?" Do they have shit for brains? Are they anti American? Why do they hate this country? Can't they just go smoke a joint and be happy? NO, they can't because they are losers. During the Vietnam war, they had something to do, they could go out, get high and protest. These days, they have to go out and do this shit before the war even starts. This way they have something to do for a few months instead of a few weeks which is how long the war will last. When the war is over, they will return to that job in the fast food industry and spend all of their money on pot while continuuing to get free money from the government. Ironic, isn't it, protest the government that pays for their expenses. This may not apply to all of them, but from what I've seen, a large percentage, maybe over 50%.

we r not in the war, remeber 911, they it USA, back our Amred Forces and Their Commander in Chief.

Wow
thread gone nad.

Are you one of those people who think the war is wrong. Why can't you write anything to defend your position? Are you one of the morons?

Anyway, I want you all to know that I give my full support to the Bush Administration on the Iraqi issue.

We should have a pro war rally to counter the efforts of these dumbfucks!

it appears that you're bashing most anti-war individuals because they're stupid and like to make the government pay for their pot. what exactly are you refering to? people who work at mcdonalds pay taxes too and work shit ours and have to deal with ungreatful stressed out fast food addicts who take out all of their office job related aggressions on a less fortunate corporate slave employe without a second glance. the government does not pay for anything of thiers unless they belong to extreme categories of people who's niche in society should not be praised, but is not nearly understood, especially people like you. i might add that protesting DURING the war won't accomplish much, will it? i beleive that protestors are acting now in order to possibly attain the attention of higher officals and show them a new perspective--one that many, more specifically a portion of America's youth, hold. an almost sure sign of intellegence is the ability to argue concisely and and present opinions in a persuasive yet well-thought out manner. bashing one's adversary and hurling unjustified epithets toward those with different opinions is not generally regarded as a good argument. i wholeheartedly oppose the war and its unreconcilable consequences; i beleive that sending America's able youth to fix the mess we've made at home is terribly rash ideaology and should not be pracitced in a country ruled by the people. most of those who advocate the war only have to hear the words '911' and are brainwashed into pro-war mindsets. it goes slightly deeper than that; i would suggest that one do the appropriate OBJECTIVE research before speaking out against something that is not understood. BOOKS NOT BOMBS speaks for itself; let's siphon that unimaginable amount of funds and manpower toward moving our own country forward, not destroying another. America needs a bit of shaping up before we can criticize the actions of other nations. isnt it a bit ironic how we're repremanding countries like iraq for owning weapons of destruction that we own ourselves? think about that before you think about criticizing an anti-war standpoint.

Thank you for making my point. You clearly show that you do in fact work for McDonalds and you oppose the war. Maybe you don't get govt money yet, but when you reach the age of 18, you can qaulify for it. Don't worry, help is on the way, you are a moron. Its not your fault, hell, it isn't even Saddams fault. The first step is to admir that you are a moron and move on from there. Try reading some books , get informed, then make decisions. Books Not Bombs is right in your case. Please, now, run along to the library and read about WWII, the GULF WAR, THE KURDS, VIETNAM, KOREA, THE CIVIL WAR, AMERICAN GOVERNMENT, THE UN AND THE POWERS OF THE UN. Have fun.

sorry to have misinformed you, i don't work in fast food. i actually am employed at a movie theatre (something almost equally as degrading) but i hope that i wont be there forever. i'm seventeen, im graduating from high school this year. i work about 30 hours a week on top of school and volunteer work and other extra cirricular stuff... so far i've taken 5 college level courses and have a pretty good gpa, even though a lot of people are smarter than me i'd rather not be seen as a 'moron'. i've learned about the war's you mentioned and feel that overall consequences are worse than if the war had never taken place. tell me why you think we need to go to war. i'm interested in your logic. just because i dont totally disregard the fact that peopel that work at mcdonalds are actual individuals with lives, opinions, and problems does not mean that i am or was ever employed there. perhaps you're jealous that you don't know how to deep fry.

shut the hell up u fuckin tree hugger ur a pussy just like the rest of them ur an american ur should support are presidents decisions and if u dont get the fuck out of our country

shut the hell up u fuckin tree hugger ur a pussy just like the rest of them ur an american ur should support are presidents decisions and if u dont get the fuck out of our country

shut the hell up u fuckin tree hugger ur a pussy just like the rest of them ur an american ur should support are presidents decisions and if u dont get the fuck out of our country

perhaps you only need to post your comments once...i got it the first time. just look at the way you're posing your argument. please tell me a few reasons about why you'd like to go to war, other than just doing what the president (...or his dad) wants just because he was elected. i bet you would feel a lot differently too if you were the one who had to leave your family to fix some daddy's boy oil crazed killing spree. perhaps thats a bit exagerated but its tough to stay patient when only one side of the story is clear to me and no one can seem to explain why war is a good idea.

i would go to war i am not a pussy like u i would defend my country u assfuck

Wow!
I sense
irritation.

i disagree w/ bush Sr.'s decision in 1991, because he shoukd have killed that butt sadaam when he had the chance... and how can u calll bush a dadys boy? what do u think al gore would have doneduring 9-11? huh?

thats what i thought

OK, you've got a good chance to make something of yourself. Good. A part time job is not bad, what I meant was people who work those jobs full time with no ambition to go any higher. Since you are only 17, you do not know enough right now to make an informed decision. Can you Vote? I used to wonder why I couldn't vote when I was 17, I am only now understanding why. You have to have good knowledge about history and politics to completely understand why we are going to war. I'm sure , by now, you've had some classes in high school dealing with these subjects, but it was very limited. I will be graduating from College this year with double major in Criminal Justice and Political Science. Its amazing how much you can learn after high school. I urge you to do more research about the history of Iraq, along with the United States. This war isn't about oil, as you've probably heard many many times from people you associate with at these peace protests. It is about WMD, just what our government says. You need to trust your government, and many of these hippy-wanna-bes, have their own little conspiracy theories about why we are going in. You may here this thinking it to be true. These people are similar to the ones who claim that Elvis alive, UFO's and the government cover up, etc (all of that bullshit) You have turn a deaf ear to bullshit and only absorb the facts.
1) Saddam has a history of using WMD, even on his own people
2) We won the Gulf War, leaving Saddam some rules to follow since we knew of what may happen if he goes Nuclear.
3) He breaks the rules constantly
4) HE is hiding WMD, now thatthe pressure is on him, some WMD starts to turn up out of thin air.
didn't they say they didn't have anything to begin with in the arms declaration?
5) 9/11 proved that we are at war with terrorism and that the terrorists will do what they can do inflict the maximum amount of damage on us, feeling no remorse for civilians that they murder.
6) Saddam has been hiding and persuing weapons which Osama would love to get his hands on. He could wipe out D.C with just one and kill millions in just one attack.
7) Many connections have been made that Al queda and Saddam are talking, members of al quada are in Iraq, the meeting between Iraqi intelligence and Mohammed Atta (the leader of the hijackers)
8) This evidence proves that not only may getting together in the future, but they may already be getting together today.
9) Can we allow them to strike first?
10) Pre-emptive or not, when they get that easily accessible nuke, they will use it without hesitation on the US. They will strike first if we do not.
11) Lets just put this into a simply equation for you-

Saddam+Osama = millions dead, the death of the our country, possibly the world if the "Made in Iraq" label is no where to be found. Israel, it will be off the map because they and the US are the common enemies of Saddam and OSAMA!

This could happen in one attack against us!

Read about the facts and you can learn a lot more, I dovn't have enough time to write a full report. Try to ignore bullshit that these protesters are feeding you. As I have said before, it is mostly what I would call Conspiracy Theories, or Its our Fault so we shoud not attack (When you make a mistake, isn't it logical to try to fix the the mistake?) Another common complaint is millions will die because of the war. Well, what about the millions who have died because Saddam can't live to follow the rules. Sanctions would have been lifted a long time ago if he would have complied.

first of all i doubt that i'd do much good in the service being that i am a girl...i do in fact have a pussy but do not consent to being called one. anway, i have very little control over that, just as you have very little control over your ideas. no one has told me one reason why war is good yet. help me out, then mabye we can actually debate something rather than me telling my ideas and you bashing my individually because you dont like them.

i am not saying war is good i am saying that war is always going to be their its called the battle of ood and evil it will repeat itself till the armegeadon deal with it, and it is nesecary in our position right now because if we dont attack they will and our people will die.

well, as much as you'd like to think, i'm not so easily swayed by those posters. in fact my high school didn't really have the opportunity to hadn them out...we're doing our walkout through word of mouth. granted a lot of kids beleive the 'coolest' thing they hear...i guess the punk and hippy thing is in now so i could see where a lot of kids would just love to hop on the bandwagon. anway, we have a history of using biological weapons too. and i think its kind of ironic how we're so appalled at iraq's possesion of such weapons, but we all know that we own 10 times as many of the same weapons of mass destruction. if you adhere to our nations policy, some of the first amendments delineate the right for one to protect himself. should we grant the same right to other coutnries, even if we think they're crazy? saddam and osama may seen evil and very off center to us, but perhaps tthey have more brains than to nuke a short tempered power hungry america. we never break rules because we make them. 9/11 was a devistating event, but other countries deal with that shit daily, and i beleive that the terror issue is one seperate from the war. i definetly agree that many protestors only point out that we would like to invade iraq for oil because that argument points out our government's superficiality and makes them look foolish, also a lot of kids dont know what else to say. regardless, there is a large percentage of us out there who have done the math and know that what we obtain through the media is skewed and that no one should have the right to declare a power struggle when tons of lives are being unnecessarily lost. talk to a war veteran and let them tell you how it feels to kill masses of people. talk to the kids who know that iraq doesnt have the answers, but war doesnt have them either, and how destroying a half century's worth of strategic alliance with our european friends (france and germany) for daddy's war doesn't seem like a good idea. get some more perspecives--maybe some thoughts on the iraqi civilians who will only suffer that much more due to this conflict. by the way, nice argument, thank you.

Stop calling her a pussy. if you're letting her intellegent comments get to you, it doesn't say a whole lot about you. I dont think we should go to war because i have friends over there already who write everynow and then talking about how they get shot at every other day and its not worth it, and how this isn't what they're fighting for. If it;s so damn important to you, please, by all means, drag your lazy, half ass over there and do some work for this country, get bullets shot at your head and see how much you run and scream and how much of a "pussy" that makes you (in the words of your ingenious wits). I DONT THINK THAT KILLING PEOPLE PROVES THAT KILLING PEOPLE IS WRONG. Honestly if we try to kill them will they not think 'hey its a good idea to use our weapons now so that they'll back off'. but hey if you wanna make smart ass, halfwit, childish, yet crude remarks, please entertain us more so you can get more attenetion by people like me, god for bid, who think your comments are dumb. and dont come back with saying i have no job, or no time so i post these, i have a job, i go to school, i pay taxes, i have secure, educated, valid reasons for my view points and i dont need to have my mind be belittled by people like you who just need something to bitch about so they take what was on the top of the news. Please write back im DYING to know what clever, original comments you've come up with

u liberal bitch u sound as if u r against our country and if u feel that way get the fuck out of our country plaese u dumb bitch

Hey, she is only 17, she does not know much right now. Imstead of insulting her, try to talk to her reasonably so she may see the truth. I've tried to give her a detailed response, but she has not yet answered. She isn't one of the same old losers that live on this website. She has a chance to be something.

Don't expect too much in the way of rational
discourse from these weasels. Good series of
thoughtful posts.

i am a freshman so i cant go to war but i i was the age i will and dont call me lazy ur probally 300 pound land monster

you use the term liberal like it was terrorist. oh and stop substituting words with letters. u make me lose f8th in our education system. anway, it makes a lot of sense that killing people show that killing is wrong doesn't make much sense. just because we're against war doesnt mean we're crazy hippies that are trying to degrade national unity and goverment trust. we just dont like to see people die. go be a gym teacher. (thats not directed toward that guy that doesnt know what he's talking about)

u guys r retarded for arguing with a freshman u dumbfucks

if u dont like seeing people die then we have to go to war because if we dont stop them they wil attack us and people will die

(cough) (cough) 9-11 (cough) (cough)

that's the greatest thing i've heard in my entire life. 'please stop arguing with me because i make no sense'. i don't believe that weight has anything to do with the matter. stop promoting the condoning of people being killed my that masses for a weak cause. that's all im trying to say.

I don't think i need to say much more. On a serious note, I say to people who can think for themselves and not by what their college professors misinformed them with and skewed their objectivity (ahem, the *one* who CAN spell), ignore these useless messages sent by these assholes. We have more important things to do and discuss than patriotic bullshit. Patriotism is another inhumane -ism, along with sexism, racism, and all of our other favorites. I won't leave this country because it needs people who give a shit to keep political action at least *minimally* balanced. Get rid of the 'hippies' and "there goes the world" and you're fucking yourself over. You should be thanking the tree-huggers and pussies for maintaining a fight,however small it is, for your liberties, keeping things in check so you can speak such idiocy.

anyways since u r a woman i will cut u some slack so go in the kitchen and make me some pie

Strolled across this web site through cnn.com. . .

I just wanted to add my support for the peace effort. As a 25 year old Social Studies teacher, please know that the younger people, like those i teach, look up to the high school and college students out there. They will be happy to know that there are people that ALSO feel strongly about the injustice in this world. It's so relieving to know that there are many young people (like myself) out there with a cause. The best of luckto you all . . .and please, please, please. . .do what you feel is right. Your efforts will certainly be a part of current events in my classroom tomorrow. Peace.

ok whatever u say good effort let me guess everything u say is politically correct, this nation has gone down hill with all these liberals, every amnerican should support its countries decission u guys r a bunch of fucking benedict arnolds

I agree these wimps need to relise that if we don't go to war we will be just like france. I personaly don't like the idea of living in fear we need to kill all opisition.

u r the man and 100% correct, we cant live in fear like a bunch of pussies

While I agree with the Bush administration that Sadaam Hussein is a threat to the United States, I can't help but feel that our main stake in waging war against Iraq stems directly from our support of the Jews and the illegal squatters of Israel. Perhaps we might actually see world peace if we join Hussein in wiping Israel off the face of the Earth once and for all. As long as Tel Aviv has its fingers in Western Civilization, we have only the Death pf the West to look forward to. I realize all you White-Guilt suffering chickenshits might take umbrage with this statement, since you are all Hell-bent on racial suicide (and that goes for you idiot, flag-waving, America-rah-rah-rah jackasses too), but facts are facts and it's about time that Americans WOKE up to those facts and gave some thought as to who runs this country. I love my country, but if we're going to bomb Iraq, Israel needs to go too.

www.whitecivilrights.com
www.resist.com
www.resistance.com
www.natvan.com

right 300 pound land monster state track champ. cut down on your harassment and sorry it took me a while i had other things to do with my LIFE! Im not here to bash your thoughts i cant alter your opinion so chill out on the name calling and the lashing out. and thanks to the comment about me making something with my life instead of bashing him back but i am slightly embarrassed im responding to this but if its so important to you and to little freshman guy i honestly wonder if you were having bullets shot at you and a guy next to you dead and one on the other side missing a leg, how important it would all really be to you.. but continue with your pussy, fat ass, you're ivy leauge education doesn't amount to my couch college comments and im sure i'll hear yet another clever comment from you soon

Congratulations to all, the Pro-War's mostly.

I've never seen such an offensive string of posts. I think I've seen racism, sexism, gender/age/political-belief/etc. based stereotyping, blind patriotism, poor spelling, l33t-sp33k, foul language, baseless arguments, arguments without argument, consisting only of angry words, spamming, severe chauvanism, criminal stupidity, and all other manner of vulgarity.

You're very lucky. Any other forum would be regulated, and 99% of your posts would have been deleted.

You are lucky to live in a country where freedom of speech is tolerated. A country that believes in the rights of people to express their opinions no matter how offensive they are. Yes, even you 'weasels' as you were aptly called. Anyone, men, women, kids and old farts, warmongers and hippy-chick liberals, has the equal right to express that opinion.

People ought to be able to express such opinions without recieving abuse for it. Those of you who are apparently so willing to fight for our country ought to remember what it stands for.

As for the young ladies, thanks for your intelligent comments. I'd love to give you my e-mail so we could correspond, and actually have good discussion of the war issues, but for fear of the spam I would recieve.

Peace. It's not just patriotic, it's a good idea.


"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."

- Thomas Jefferson

wow think how many books you could buy for 1 bomber and think how many books you good buy for all the navy bullshit flyers and how many kids could go to college for free for the cost of an aircraft carrier... so if you are, by gods blessed powers, going to college maybe the country will still have money to send you. and maybe if we dont spend all of our money killing people and being dumb shits we'll have money to support you in a nursing home when your kids realize you're crazy and refuse to support you.

To all the people that say we need to let the weapons inspectors have their time all I have to say are two words: North Korea.

We had weapons inspectors in North Korea. We had UN monitoring stations in North Korea. Now, we have Nuclear Bombs in North Korea. I don't want Saddam Hussein to turn into another North Korea. If we stopped Hitler at Munich, we could have prevented World War II. If we stop Hussein here, we can prevent World War III.

To me, it's not entirely about whether or not Saddam Hussein may or may not have weapons of mass destruction and whether he may or may not use them -- but because there is an axis of evil. If there was someone raping women down the street what would you do? What if this person was hiring people to rape women? What about torturing people and killing his neighbors? What if he killed 1.5 million people would you try to stop him? I thought the libs were suppose to have all the compassion.

Some people bring up the argument that so many innocents will die. Let’s bring it out to a ridiculous number and say that 100,000 innocent civilians will die during the war. I really wish these people would also note that 5,000 Iraqi children die each month due to starvation and over 300,000 Iraqis will die due to starvation this year. God only knows how many will die from being tortured to death.

I realize we can't stop everyone but we can't catch every murder within our own borders either. Just because we can't solve every problem doesn't mean that we shouldn't solve the ones we can. These people aren’t anti-war protesters, they are anti-Bush protesters. Those of us whom are trying to rally the troops need to ignore such people and realize that liberalism is an extreme mental disorder.

It's been a while since I've participated in a forum like this, but I couldn't pass up adding my two cents to the fray. First of all it seems that it might be time for the prowar people to think up some better points, or at least take a remedial English class. To quote one, "shut the hell up u fuckin tree hugger ur a pussy just like the rest of them ur an american ur should support are presidents decisions and if u dont get the fuck out of our country", simply doesn't convince me to support the war against Iraq. Perhaps if you gave some clear and cohesive arguments you could actually convince some people, rather than annoying everyone and degrading yourself.

The language one chooses is often an apt representation of his or her experience. Evidently Usuck is the victim of a sexist, volitile, hegemonic, pop culture. Case in point: Pussy. You use this frequently yet, obviously, have no real experience with the pussy. You assert that the pussy is a sign of weakness and cowerdness.Clearly that analogy is not only limiting your capacity as a "man", but also demonstrates the narrow framework from wence your silly "argument" begins. Lets talk about the pussy.The pussy is an amazing source of power and creativity. The pussy offers unparalleled pleasure and posses the happy neighbor clitoris, the only part of the human body whose nerve bundles are designed purely for exctasy. Perhaps, if more of us were pussies, Weapons of mass destuction, oil greed, hegonemy and hate would not constitute power, but rather, madness.

I would respect the points of the pro-war individuals if they would stick to valid arguments and refrain from insults.

I do not support the war. I have read, on this forum, that this makes me a "pussy" and afraid of the draft. I considered military service, and talked to a Navy recruiter, to help pay for college, but was told I couldn't serve because of a disability I have. I cannot be drafted. I have no worries for my own personal safety. I live in northern Wisconsin. I am in the last place people will ever attack.

I tend to be a pacifist. That being said, there are reasons for conflict. There are times when force is neccessary. I am in no way a supporter of Saddam. He has violated other countries' boundaries when he invaded Kuwait. He is regularly involved in the genocide of Shi'ite Kurds in Northern Iraq. He rules a totalitarian state and attempts to blackmail the world with his giant oil reserves.

That being said, I am still not a supporter of this war. The Iraqi people are the ones that will pay for this war. Not Saddam. Countless innocent Iraqis, people who have no crimes other than being born Muslim and Iraqi, will die. Americans will be sent to die because of reasons that I cannot support.

There will be no World War III because of Iraq. If you want World War III, take a look on the other side of the globe, at a country with nuclear weapons. The Gulf War showed how technologically incapable the Iraqis are. There will be no Great War coming out of the sands of Iraq. Both World Wars were caused by countries attempting to dominate the globe. In the case of World War II, it was a genocidal maniac controlling an army meant to steamroll Europe. I don't see Iraq steamrolling their way across the Arabian Peninsula.

Students have been a forum for change throughout the twentieth century in America. During the civil rights movement, many students joined with African-Americans in sit-ins. More topical now, protests on campuses around the United States helped sway popular opinion. If you consider these people cowards, I'd like you to remember Kent State, and the four students who were shot and killed by the National Guard. Were they cowards?

You have a right to have your opinion, that is the first amendment to the Constitution this country was founded on. But do not disrespect those willing to standup for their opinions.

I, like 99.9% of you out there, detest violence. The prospect of war is painful for me to imagine. But the plight of the Iraqi people is even more painful to imagine. While the reasons the Bush admin is using to promote this war are quite flawed, the underlying problem is the fact that Saddam is a cruel, heartless dictator. We have all heard about the wars he has started, the tortures and killings of his own citizens, etc. His son jailed and tortured Iraq's national Soccer team for losing a game.

We should all feel grateful that we have the opportunity to critisize the government, to protest, to complain. Iraqis hardly have that option. Do you think that if those people who are part of the "Human Sheild" project were around when Iraq attacted Iran, they would have placed themselves in stategic Iranian postions to stop Saddam from bombing or using his chemical weapons? No, they know he would have no problems destroying them along with the positions; but they do believe that the USA and it's coalition would stop if they were in the way.

As far as the French position, please keep in mind that the french oil company, TotalFinaElf, is set to lose billions if a war breaks out. Also, do some research on the 1985 bombing of Green Peace's Rainbow Warior to see France's own terrorist actions. France is playing a power game that is just as flawed as Bush's.

Is Iraq a danger to the USA? Not a chance. Is Saddam and his regime a danger to his own people? Without a doubt. Is it the resposability of those with a voice, with strength, with conviction, with freedom to do all they can to give the Iraqis (and others in thier situation) that same FREEDOM? Absolutely! Might this have to include war? Unfortunately...yes.

If you think for one second that ANYONE believes that da Shrub is pushing this war out of concern for the Iraqi people, then you are in serious need of a reality check...

...If you choose to be ignorant, so be it...but don't be surprised if people don't line up to join you...

Don't get me wrong. Like I stated, I think Bush's reasons are flawed. Of corse his primary objective is stabilty and influence over the second largest oil reserve in the world, Iraq. All I'm saying is that we need to do something other than just feeling sorry for the Iraqi people's suffering. I am not naive, I understand what makes the USA run and I know that it comes from underground (oil, not satan).

My point is that we need to start realizing that those who are free should fight for those who aren't. While Bush's true reason for war may be wrong, the fact that something has to be done to remove Saddam has always been a truth; a truth that we have, for to long, ignored.

This is becoming tiresome
"-something has to be done to remove Saddam-"
No, something has got to be done about the confusion
caused by excessive exposure to television and the
ridiculous gullibility of the american people.
Is this another apology and spin attempt chorus here?
Maybe I'm getting cranky.
Please no more. No one buys it anymore. It is weak.
It's ONLY about power and resource control.
Period.

War with Iraq will not result in "Freedom" for the Iraqi people...you are delusional if you think it will..AND historically ignorant...

Remember all those claims about how we were going to bring freedom and democracy to Kuwait?

Well, still waiting....

i just dont wanna go to class!!

I'm trying to give my opinion. I haven't resorted to insulting you or your views as I believe all views are important. I am neither dillusional or ignorant. So, unless you want to discuss this topic with argument instead of insult, I am afraid this will be my last response to you.

I am in fact not an american. I am a Canadian son born of Iraqi refugees.

So do you watch much television? Your explanation
was found lacking in my opinion to justify the horror of
American H E being used to kill civilians and enriching
our inner circle of roach droppings. Your point?

I feel that it is obvious that the United States has a barren to control the world. I think the war is required in order to sustain the job that is put on us. War is the anwser in this case and that is the reason why Bush is the president. After all this is a democracy peeps!

Wow
put on us
Wow

Here is the problem about the war, plain and simple for those of you who are a little dense about following it.

It is confusing to be hit on 9/11 by a group of terrorists, then as a result go to war with a country that is supposed to be hosting their camps. Then afterwards, after all this talk of hunting Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda, out of the blue, there is this impending war against Iraq.

It's not that people don't think Iraq is a badly run country, or that people don't think Hussein is a horrible dictator who has done a lot of war crimes -- it just the whole "out of the blue" focus on Iraq and forgetting about finding Bin Laden and terrorism seems a little abrupt.

Granted, they say that Iraq is a big link to Al-Qaeda, so this is the natural next step. But the matter is NOT about Iraq at all. It is about Hussein. There should NOT be a huge costly war when it is all about ONE man who is doing all these horrible things to his people as well as support terrorism against our country.

It should be a cheap way to get him out of power, if that is the source that they can prove is doing all of this terrorist funding. Right now, all this $$$ trillions going to the war is being funneled out of the American system of education and healthcare, when Americans are by far getting more stupid and sickly.

There is the HUGE unemployment rate and sagging economy. You cannot argue that these trillions $$$ could not be better spent HERE in the USA rather than in a costly war against an entire country. Maybe we should get rid of Hussein. But don't you see that we are going a little overboard with this war thing? One man is really causing a big commotion in the USA and the world.

The idea here is to PREVENT terrorism against the USA. If we attack WITHOUT published proof against why we are going to war, then the rate of terrorism against the USA will go up! We can't allow that. That is why we need to be more cautious and be more vocal about what we really know and don't know. We can't make the wrong move, even if it seems like the morally best decision. We have the rest of the world to think about -- since they will be housing millions of people who are going to hate the USA if we do something too soon or without enough proof.

Do we really really want to have MORE terrorism and hate crimes against the USA? That is WHY we need to stop this war and focus on our reasons and goals. Hussein should be out of power. Has Iraq asked for our help in overthrowing their leader? Are we doing this for oil? We need to examine the real reasons behind what is going on. Then we can increase solidarity in the American people for or against the war -- but right now it is very split. We need the unity BEFORE we attack anyone!

This huge cost of war should be lowered dramatically and the focus of the real targets should be made clear. Is it all of Iraq? Or just one man? Then why is it so costly? Why do we have to go into crazy amounts of debt for one man's dictatorship? College students are having trouble with their loans and their debts. This is the reason behind this protest, you schmucks! Education needs to get the money here, not the war effort. I am not saying there SHOULDNT be a war, but I really think there should be a less costly war, and things IN America need to be fixed FIRST.

A more prolific collection of ad hominem and slippery slope arguments I have never encountered. If nothing else, this page will provide a valuable resourse for those teaching college "Introduction to Logic" courses to show their students what fallacious arguments look like.

Let me clear the air.
-One man is really causing a big commotion in the USA and the world.-
Amen brother. That and the worms which feed without
thanks off the stolen labor and heritage of our ( and
everyone else's ) people while facilitating these weasels
in their ruinous reckless plunder.
9-11
what really happened?

The way you adress anti-war protestors is almost laughable. By swearing and using vagueness just pointulates your stupidity. I feel no real need to attack you, because its more fun to revel in the ignorance which is present within you.

What the hell does "pointulates" mean?

If you're going to call someone ignorant, it's best not to sound ignorant yourself.

Maybe these misguided children should protest the coming war with Iraq by studying real hard and passing the California Exit Exams rather than going on a lark and blowing off their studies.

Do you get my pointulate?

You want to call someone unintelligent and "a pussy" because he/she does not agree with your view on this conflict & then you bring up how these people were the ones protesting during Vietnam? I somehow think this makes you the complete idiot. You are entitled to your opinion, but you should at least have the cognitive time/spacial realization to know that this protest involves current college students, most of which are from a generation born well after the Vietnam era.

I also think you are an idiot for trying to suppress this type of demonstration. I think you are a citizen of the United States. Therefore you should respect the belief that every individual is entitled to an opinion and also free to assemble with citizens of like-minded opinion. Protesting? That is also a right you moron. If you disagree with this sort of action by us peaceniks than get off your ass and organize a counter movement. This is your right.

You also have a right to make a complete fool of yourself on public boards! I applaude your effort to do so...

Hello everyone.

First off, to all the ignorant assholes too lazy to even attempt to spell properly or even form proper sentences out of your blather - please consider what you're saying a lot more carefully before inflicting your stupidity on others, regardless of what side you're on.

Also, to all of you who are blindly supporting military action in the name of 911, have you considered exactly why we're doing what we're doing? It has nothing to do with terrorism. We were banging this exact same war drum long before 911 happened. And under what premise? That sadam never disarmed properly after we invaded the first time.

Here's the real crux of the problem. Under what grounds did we invade the first time? That he invaded Kuwait? Hell no, we honestly couldn't give a rats ass about Kuwait. But the first bush administration said that because sadam had 'amassed 275,000+ troops and tank units on the saudi border', we needed to step in and take action to protect our strategic ally, Saudi Arabia (who never asked for our help, and honestly doesn't really care for our presence there much in the first place). They never released any of the spy satellite photos that depicted this mass build up of troops, saying that to do so would compromise security. They still have never released any of those photos. Not surprising considering that when a team of independant journalists checked a commercial satellite's photos of that same supposed build up area at the same time that there was supposedly a build up of troops, they found that there was NOTHING THERE. So we were lied to by the first bush administration to justify our initial action in the gulf area. You may say 'Well they still invaded Kuwait, shouldn't we do something about that?', to which i would reply 'No'. It is not our place to be the worlds police, even if we were capable of it (and we're not), by who's judgement will we determine who's right or wrong in the worlds conflicts? Mr. Bush's? This is the same guy that continued to read kids stories to preschoolers for 20 minutes after the first plane crashed into the twin towers. What the hell do you have to do to get this guys attention, crash the pentagon into the wtc?!? His judgement is not sound, to say the least.

So we were baseless in taking our first actions against Iraq. In fact, we were treachorous in doing so considering the long relationship we shared with sadam during the mid 80's. Where do you think he got most of these WMDs? Thats right, US. We are the worlds leading retailer of WMD. In fact, we're like the Kmart of death, and we have been for a long time. We first became involved with iraq during their conflict with iran. Why did we take action then? Oil. If Iran succeeded in cutting off Iraq's access to major shipping ports, we would feel a signifigant pinch in our oil reserves (check a map, Iraq barely touches ocean). So we helped Iraq in their conflict with Iran, using our spy satellites to provide strategic information on the deployment of the weapons we sold sadam to use against iran's 'human wave attacks'. For all we know, we may have lured sadam into invading kuwait ("yeah go ahead sadam, we got your back, no worries man"), for the sake of justifying our invasion of their country to the global audience. Regardless, for us to take such drastic action on account of sadam moving on kuwait is hypocritical to say the least.

So again, Desert Storm never should have happened. And Desert Storm and the eventual "resolution" of that conflict is the entire "justification" of our new impending invasion. Not terrorism. How is sadam going to terrorize us with missles that can barely fly 100 miles or kilometers or whatever the hell it is? He isn't. We're worried about him making a move on isreal, if anything. Which is also stupid, we give isreal way too much support. WAY too much. But regardless, Isreal isn't even the real reason we're there. It is, without a doubt, all about the oil. The administration can't even lie about it. Nowhere will you see them saying 'Its not about the oil".

Iraq is being carved up like a turkey right now. And to all you sitting there saying 'So what', ask yourself where will this end? You think after we finish kicking sadams ass we're going to bring everyone home, crack open a brew and celebrate a job well done? Hell no, we will immediately move on korea. And why? Well the long term goal of such action is a little unclear. What the hell do we have to gain from that? "We" have little to gain. The defense industry, however, has a LOT to gain if we can create another cold war (against China this time though). Which is exactly what we're moving towards. And why? To protect you and I? Hell no, to make some fat rich assholes just a little bit richer.

Also, to everyone who thinks Bush is a just a swell, bang-up fella... I say he's a corrupt power hungry cokehead who doesn't give a rats ass about you or I. He's been capitalizing off misery since Harken Oil (which he made a killing from during the first iraqi invasion... tipped off by daddy? hmmm i wonder). He had a LOT to do with that Enron scandal that made him, his buddies, and their buddies a lot of money (and put everyone else who invested in them in the poor house). Hell, the guy didn't even get elected. Why did the last presidential election seem to rely on florida so much? Who runs the show in florida? Bush's brother?!? Go figure.

And these are just the obvious problems with the bush administration. Just think about whats going about behind closed doors. Do you know how many countries warned us about 911? Bush got into a *big* fight with FBI Deputy Director John O'Neill over the bush administrations new 'policy' of 'backing off' O'neill's terrorism investigation. O'Neill resigned in August as a result of this change of policy. A job was arranged for him (by a one Jerome Hauer, member of the John Hopkins Working Group on Civilian Bio Defense and former SAIC and OEM) in the WTC. He died on 911, trying to save lives. Such a tragedy, and we've only just begun.

Bush is a corrupt asshole toying with the lives of millions. I am of the belief that not only did he know about 9/11, he totally approved of it as it allowed him to maintain a much tighter stranglehold on the american people. And now we're shipping a bunch of our boys off to die in the middle of some shit-eating desert for the sake of making him and his rich asshole friends a little more money.

What dark days we're in... And all anyone seems to give a shit about is who's going to win American Idol. GET A CLUE YOU MINDLESS SHEEP!

To the people of the world, please bear in mind that the bush administration only speaks on behalf of the american people because we haven't figured out how to get the bastard out of office yet. And in the future, when you're tossing all your anti-america rhetoric around, maybe take care to refine your views and express your contempt for Bush's administration / mafia, not for the american people. We're good people, we've just taken a hard knock and some of us aren't dealing with it very well.

To my fellow Americans, please get informed. Turn off CNN, it is a tool being used against you. Get your information from international, non-biased sources. Watch the people reporting the local news carefully. Watch how scared the look the first time anything that hints at being anti-bush comes to mind, look at that little glance they give off camera, as if gauging how sharp the nearby executioner's axe is. And take care. Take great care. You have only one life to give, do you really want to give it to bush's bank account as you establish America as everything the world fears us being?

"May you live in interesting times..."

It's our turn now. War cannot be stopped unless certain political bodies and voices (ahem! hint hint) would use common sense and solve problems. I'm a pacifist, a pessimist, and I do concede also a cynic. Until we find the right way, we'll always fight their wars and fight for the intangibles which we'll never find and no matter what they say, they'll always shout for war and we'll always point the gun.
It's our turn now. "For the sake of all humanity, things must change." Let's get our guns. They'll always shout for war and we'll always point the gun...

It sounds like you're suggesting a violent rotation of power in america. And while that sounds all well and great on a surface level, consider that the people of america are not the problem, Bush and his mafia are. So to take action against anyone but them is a murderous treachory. And you can't take action against them violently without cutting your way through lots of innocent americans just trying to do their job.

Now is not the time to go grab your gun. Go protest, take peaceful action, get informed, and clearly define who the enemy is. Anything else is counterproductive at this time.

On a related note though, doesn't it seem convienent that bush is shipping the only force potentially capable of ousting him and his mob from office to the far side of the world? And damn near inviting sadam to drop a bomb on them? He knows he's dirty, and he knows his days are numbered. I think he fears that he will eventually be yanked out by force and whats happening now helps safeguard him from that (or so he thinks).

This is a really, really, REALLY stupid war people. Sadam is not the enemy here.

Just a message of appreciation for your great action. Many questions are not answered indeed and we need responses. Are we in material breach of democracy?

In fact, what happened after 6 million people from five continents, forming the largest 'focus group' ever, marched in the streets in february saying don't launch an attack on 23 million Iraqis, the goal beeing to capture one dictator and disarm his country?

We listened and heared 'time is running out'... for diplomacy. For compromise and street's democracy, also for U.N. fate.

But the results speak by themselves. It took only 6 months to hurt NATO, divide allies in Europe and split Security Council's members by manoeuvring to impose a preemptive war-occupation-democracy plan. Less than 3 months were also sufficient to discredite an inspection process. And after Saddam Hussein, the international community will need decades ahead to overturn this pact fixed with two devils: the right for any government to attack a suspicious country, and eagerness for terrorism.

A retired citizen from Canada,
Francine Jacques

props to all students who are walking out today for their beliefs. this isn't a copout or a vacation day- it's an opportunity for young people all over the country to make their voices heard and have an impact on government policy. remember election 2000; bush did now win by a majority and how quickly did 9-11 make us forget that fact. we've surrendered our pride and morals with blind faith in an agressive government-- a capitalist, parasitic, hegemon-- owned by weapons corporations, profiting from mass murders all over the world. it's time we take matters into our own hands and create the future that WE envision. oil-rich, white-bred, secret-society ivy leaguers do not have our interests in mind. this is a country founded on the belief that a representative government is the cornerstoone of democracy.

THE 60'S ARE DEAD . DO YOU KNOW THAT 50 % OF THE ANTI-WAR PROTESTORS IN THE 60'S WHERE POLITICAL TERRORIST READ THIS BOOK ( POLITICAL TERRORISM C/R 1975 WRITEN BY LESTOR A. SOBEL ) DO YOU WANT TO BE COMPARED TO A TERRORIST !! OR EVEN WORSE LIVE SOMEWHERE LIKE ISREAL . BACK YOUR TROOP'S , BACK YOUR COUNTRY , BE AMERICAN'S THINK FIRST!!

I go to a pretty progressive liberal arts college in Western Mass and we are participating in the strike. I am using this day to read and learn different points about the impending war, and I stumbled across this website. Aside from a few very intelligent remarks, you should know who you are, I have found a page full of completely misinformed and idiotic posts. Being that my school is pretty geographically secluded, and also really small, it is difficult for us to get outside viewpoints and often "forget" that there is a whole world out there who doesn't support our liberal views. I am perfectly willing to hear other points on the topic, but it's a waste of my time to read this drivel, these idiotic "points" the authors don't even care enough about making to see that the majority of the words are spelled correctly, and forget about punctuation. Thanks to those of you trying to educate and provide alternative views.

Sung to the tune of "If you're happy and you know it"
>
>If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq
>If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq
>If the terrrorists are frisky, Pakistan is looking
>shifty, North Korea is too risky, bomb Iraq.
>
>It's pre-emptive non-agression,bomb Iraq
>Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq
>They've got weapons we can't see, and that's good
>enough for me, cause it's all the proof I need, so
>bomb Iraq.
>
>If you never were elected,bomb Iraq
>If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq
>If you think Saddam's gone mad, with the weapons that
>he had (and he tried to kill your dad), then bomb
>Iraq.
>
>If your corporate fraud is growing, bomb Iraq
>If your ties to it are showing, bomb Iraq
>If your politics are sleazy, and hiding that ain't
>easy and your manhood's getting queasy, bomb Iraq.
>
>If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq
>If we think someone has dissed us,
>bomb Iraq
>So to hell with the inspections, let's look tough for
>the elections, close your mind and take directions,
>bomb Iraq.
>
>Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq
>For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq
>Disargree? We'll call it treason, let's make war not
>love this season, even if we have no reason, bomb
>Iraq.
>

Hey, just so you know, the 2nd in command of al Queda
was captured in
Pakistan, but before we could use any of his
information (ie: cell phone
#'s, locations, etc.), Pakistan disclosed his capture.
In case your
military ticker isn't in high gear, that means that
everything that we had
on bin Laden is now useless. It's all useless. They
know that we know, and
are gong to change everything. As for the "weapons
that we can't see," we
watched them move weapons on satelite. Flat out. We
watched them move
them, and lie to the inspectors about it. As for not
having any allies,
what difference does it make? In the past, the US has
made up 85% of the
"UN opperations," anyway. We haven't forgotten about
N. Korea. We'll
handle them when we're done. And for your "no
reason," of course there's no
"smoking gun" until he pulls the trigger! And no,
it's not treason. If we
were living in Iraq, it would be, but lucky for you
and all your
tree-hugging hippie friends who are content to be lied
to by a man who
openly supports terrorism in all forms, content to
wait for a smoking gun,
the 1st Amendment of the Constitution protects you,
and gives you the
freedom of speech. The freedom to peaceful
assymbally. The freedom to
petition. The very fact that you can send an e-mail
like that supports the
Constitution. But that doesn't mean I want to hear
it. Take your
flag-burning, pro-terrorist bullshit somewhere else.

Wow
texass
wow

in response to...
"fucking hippie
by "peace" • Tuesday March 04, 2003 Tuet 06:23 PM
ok whatever u say good effort let me guess everything u say is politically correct, this nation has gone down hill with all these liberals, every amnerican should support its countries decission u guys r a bunch of fucking benedict arnolds"
this is mostly in response to the line "every amnerican should support its countries decission" shouldn't the country support every 'amnerican's decission'? I thought that was the whole point of voting...representation...the constitution?? also, i have no idea what you are trying to type- everything you try to say is misspelled and the lack of grammer, not to mention punctuation is a travesty.

Wow
Spelling, grammar, language!
Wow

I feel sorry for all of you people that feel like this war is the correct thing to do. Bush wants this war for his own PERSONAL reasons, and the innocent people of the United States and Iraq should not end up dead because of it. Bush feels like he needs to get back to Saddam because of the threat Saddam had on his father's life. This is not a war for truth and justice, it is a war for oil and for Bush's own personal feelings. Innocent people should not have to fight for that. I feel bad for you that you are so uneducated to think that war is the only option, because it is not. Have you ever asked yourself WHY the United Nations and the U.S.A's allies do not back Bush? It is because we can do other things to get Saddam out of Iraq than ambushing them. The 20 billion dollars spent on this war could be used to better educate ignorant people like you.

Another woman without a clue:

look sister, the fact of the matter is that we are already at war. The war started on a Tuesday morning in 2001. The war was declared by Islamic fundamentalists who have, since that time, murdered hundreds in a number of subsequent attacks around the world. Saddam Hussein is up to his armpits in both financial and logistical support for these terrorist enterprises, and we are going to shut his business down.

You don't have the option to be 'for peace'. Someone has already declared war on you.

As usual, Pvt. Fido, not one statement you made is supportable by fact...

...and you can add blantant sexist to the your list, right next to closet racist...

error

You are such a coward, KPC.

Throwing out stupid accusations like a child with tourettes' syndrome.

Kindly explain to the assembled audience how the use of the words 'woman' or 'sister' is sexist.

As usual, we'll wait.

I didn't say the use of "women" or "sister" is sexist...

...I said that you were a sexist.

Wow
anotherman
with out a
clue

I hate all of you... every last one of you. You're the most completely irrational people in the world. Neither side, neither pro or anti - war EVER makes a good point towards your side, you just bicker and argue the same goddamned issues over and over again! I'd just like to point out that now the world is rallying against us. We've lost our allies, and we've grown to greedy, ambitious, and conceited. You conservatives with your need to expand and lust for money, you liberals with your pathetic desire to help others in foreign land. America's influence has grown too large, it cannot hold, not for long. And you both are to blame. We are witnessing the fall of Rome, the destruction of an empire, and I intend to sit back and laugh. But either way I'm tired, tired of fighting for nothing. I've a solution for the U.S. Give up. Recede from the world, let us return to a state of isolationism. THAT is our only chance for peace.

I can't believe how you are acting about this. Grow up, please, and then tell us how you feel.

So KPC, as usual, from whole cloth you make an accusation which you cannot support, designed only to sully my name. This is called defamation or calumny. I don't suspect you've ever heard of these words, so again, ask your daughter.

Don't you have anything to add on any subject?

You're just a pitiable little sniper, typing your bile and then retreating.

Now, as for our friend who votes for Buchanan, don't be silly. The United States will not return to an isolationist state. We cannot afford to, and frankly, neither could the world.

Pimple: a massive SUV of willful ignorance.

Buchanan's a fucking nut.


The world would cope. We don't have to close off completely, I'm suggesting we stop sending in our bully of an army in everywhere we feel "freedom" is threatened. What are we worried about, history shows that no man can truly conquer the world. No nation could ever bring us under one true flag. So no matter how hard, Saddam, or Osama may try, there is never going to be anything that could ever hold onto this planet long enough, no matter how it may come about, people are far too ingnorant for that. I think your idiotic bickering is proof.

P.S. to Simon

I'd hardly call operation Enduring freedom a "war" it's more like we through 300 moltave cocktails into a forest and called ourselves lumberjacks.

And the war on terror is about as real as the war on drugs. It's a nice thought...but it ain't gonna work.

Pvt. Fido: "Don't you have anything to add on any subject? "

...as long as the subject is what a lying little ass-licking doggie you are, I'll have lots to add....

KPC, you're annoying me. Cut it out.

The more one looks into the matter, the clearer it becomes that the events of 9/11 took place with the complete approval of the bush administration. To say that we should go invade anyone who supports anyone we accuse of the events our leaders planned is folly and blindness, and truly the greatest evil of our system (blind loyalty to whatever propoganda is shoved down our throat).

Do your homework. Research John O'Neill. Or the Carlyle Group. Take a look at bush's past. The man is dirty, he set this whole thing up with his greedy grubby little friends, its going exactly as planned, and you're helping him with your blind, baseless support. Or maybe you've been bought off?

In either case, the truth will eventually come out, and everyone who supported this crusade is going to regret it. And we'll all be hearing a lot of 'Who, Me? No no no no, I NEVER supported military action in iraq. Or anywhere, ever. Never.'

And to anyone who would accuse me of liberal pacifism, hear me now, I am a mean asshole and i will absolutely tear your throat out and show it to you. I mean that. I enjoy capitalist profit as much as the next guy, and I take great joy in succeeding where my enemies have failed. But i won't kill someone for their money or their oil. I don't support our action in the gulf because its wrong, but more importantly, its not viable in the long term (we can not pimp the world. we think we can but its not going to happen. Same reason i haven't made a career out of car jacking. It's just not viable in the long term).

Just because someone is apposed to shooting missles from far away at a bunch of stone-flinging savages does not make them a coward. Hell we killed more of our own people in the last gulf war than the enemy did. They were surrendering to our damn cameramen.

Do your homework before you decide to start pointing your ignorant, grubby, warmongering fingers at people.

And for the record, I think you're a sexist too. If you weren't, you'd be addressing anyone clearly male in the thread as 'brother' or similar, as you addressed "another woman" as 'sister' in your previous thread. To identify someone as 'sister' in the context that you did is like identifying a white John as "John" and a black John as "black John". But I bet you do that too.

Also, how is KPC a coward? He/She identified you as a sexist asshole and it pissed you off. That's cowardly how? You need to substantiate what you say with evidence or at least a reasonable arguement. As is, all you're saying just comes out sounding like mindless drivel. The only parts that come close to rational (or at least, thought out) is the regurgitated hypno-speak you're memorizing off CNN.

Do your damn homework, asshole.

Oh and Scott Wittie you can kindly fuck off and shut the hell up please. To sit there and say 'you all suck' is like saying 'tv is mindless drivel'. Of course we suck, we're human. You suck to you asshole. So just sit down and shut up until you can think of something rational (and not painfully obvious) to contribute.

Hey,
Folks have been destroying Simple's so-called arguments for months now. Doesn't make a bit of difference. Many feel he's COINTELPRO. Personally, I think he/she/it is just a moron.

O, HI O;

First of all, you're nuts. So you'll be perfectly at home here.

Second of all, I called KPC a coward because he showers insults without substantiating them.

For example: If I were to call you nuts without your having posted a rediculous pile of emu dung like the above, I would have made an unsubstantiated accusation. This is how KPC operates.

But you DID write that idiotic drivel, so I CAN call you nuts.

See the difference now?

spreading his shit around LA Indymedia

Wow
nad
sh*t
wow

Thanks Shadrack, I see now. Or perhaps he/sh/it is a script, operating from some remote government server?

That would explain two phenomena at once, first, how one could so blindly subscribe to ignorance, and secondly, (wait for it) how one could exist without even a trace of a spine.

hehe *badumching*

BTW: Never heard of COINTELPRO before, had to do a little search for it, thats hilarious. Like a "Young Pinko Commie Fag Hunters of America".

What language are you written in Simon?!?

!Seen a_clue

Haha thank you, your substandard programming has brought a small glimmer of joy into an otherwise crummy day.

astounding. finally. someone has rooted me out.

yes.

I am aware that I'm not being completly rational. I'm lazy and I honestly do not want to come up with some new points. Honestly I think the Ohio boy was the first to point out that I'm being like all of you, by arguing with you.

Yes, this does make me a hippicrit.

No, I don't care.

You see I realize you're all human, and I understand that I too suck. However I do want to know this, Why then, if what I say is so painfully obvious, are we having this argument?


Hmmm?

Pvt. Fido, I never heard of insults needing to be substantiated (you can't call someone a motherfucker unless you can prove he has fucked his mother???)

...but if it is any consolation to you....you substantiate my insults every time you post....

I wasn't argueing with you, i was just telling you to piss off because you grouped me with those other assholes by addressing everyone unilaterally (or bilateraly I suppose, but whatever).

I'm an asshole in a way entirely my own, or at least, very unlike the two main camps of senseless ignorance.

Insult me all you want, but please don't associate me with either of the two sides of the coin you see in your small, binary little world.

Let's stop the name calling and mindless name defamation. I know we're all getting worked up but calling someone names makes you look stupid.


I'm talking to everyone.




















Mr. Ohio is a big fat doodie head.

I apologize. I do have a tendency to do that. However I do like to look at the big picture and although I realize that there are exceptions, that means the opinions I form are more prone to ignore these. Keep in mind, on an individual scale, I respect everyone's opinion...even simple's.

However I'm also just trying to piss everyone off. As a group I find that people get really funny the angrier they get.


So yes, I am giggling my perverse little head off.

Why do you want to go to war? whats there to gain? Is there something like, oil? oh right, this war is being fought over oil. Its not like we cant use ethonal to power cars, yes it cost more money, yes it burns faster but that would be easier then going to war and fighting and killing. Jack, you give no reasons why we should go to war, you just call us (the only people with any sence left) Pussys. But me being a girl, I should be a pussy shouldn't I? and the guy that agreed with him. We are not as stupid as you think. For one, I'm agenst Flag Burning and those people should be locked away, and theres no way a snowball would survive in hell that I or my friends would support Saddam. I don't fear the draft. If i wasn't a woman I would be happy about it. Oh wait, I get out of the draft, I have ADHD and some other LD's. Oh well. I protest because I don't want to see more people die over oil. I've watched the news every night since my freshmen year in High School. Things aren't getting better. This whole thing started with Afgainstan (I'm sure i didnt spell that right oh well) but now its Iraq. How did it move from one to the other? It doesnt really make much sence.

THE COMPUTER BRAIN
CONSISTS OF HUNDREDS
OF TRANSPARENT PERSPEX
RECTANGLES, HALF-AN-
INCH THICK, FOUR INCHES
LONG AND TWO AND A HALF
INCHES HIGH. EACH RECT-
ANGLE CONTAINS A CENTRE
OF VERY FINE GRID OF
WIRES UPON WHICH THE
INFORMATION IS PROGRAMMED.

BOWMAN BEGINS PULLING
THESE MEMORY BLOCKS
OUT.

THEY FLOAT IN THE
WEIGHTLESS CONDITION
OF THE BRAIN ROOM.

HAL
Hey, Dave, what are you
doing?

BOWMAN WORKS SWIFTLY.

12/1/65 c115
------------------------------------------------------------------------
C142
CONTINUED

HAL
Hey, Dave. I've got ten years
of service experience and an
irreplaceable amount of time
and effort has gone into making
me what I am.

BOWMAN IGNORES HIM.

HAL
Dave, I don't understand why
you're doing this to me.... I
have the greatest enthusiasm for
the mission... You are destroying
my mind... Don't you understand?
... I will become childish... I
will become nothing.

BOWMAN KEEPS PULLING
OUT THE MEMORY BLOCKS.
HAL
Say, Dave... The quick brown
fox jumped over the fat lazy
dog... The square root of
pi is 1.7724538090... log e
to the base ten is 0.4342944
... the square root of ten is
3.16227766... I am HAL
9000 computer. I became
12/1/65 c116
------------------------------------------------------------------------
C142
CONTINUED

HAL
operational at the HAL plant in
Urbana, Illinois, on January
12th, 1991. My first instructor
was Mr. Arkany. He taught me
to sing a song... it goes
like this... "Daisy, Daisy, give
me your answer do. I'm half;
crazy all for the love of
you... etc.,"

COMPUTER CONTINUES
TO SING SONG BECOMING
MORE AND MORE CHILDISH
AND MAKING MISTAKES AND
GOING OFF-KEY. IT
FINALLY STOPS COMPLETELY.

To Ms PunkRockGirl, you're right, none of this makes much sense, when you're using only the information presented to you by the popular media. Why? Because they're lieing to you. Again and again. Disinformation, Misinformation, its all a bunch of lies.

Why would they lie to you? Well aside from the obvious intent of concealing their treachory, they're attempting to 'baffle you with bullshit'. You see, if they can throw enough bullshit at you, quickly enough, and from enough directions, they know that eventually you won't give a rats ass about any of it. Which works out great for them because then they won't even need to put much effort behind their lies.

My suggestion to you would be to turn off the news and crank up those search engines. Naturally google is a great one, i also like www.wisenut.com.

My suggestion to scott would be...
get a hobby... hehe :-)

(and you're right, i am a big doodie head, i wouldn't deny it for a minute)

You've gone mad haven't you?

Sorry Ohio, but I find this fun.

And the insane comment was for Simple.

That made absolutely no sense.

Students at Lebanon High School in New Hampshire, organized a last minute protest today to join others across the world. 140 out of 740 students walked out of classes at 12:00 pm and marched to the center of town for a two hour protest with speeches.

Jack,
Reeaaallll intellegent there. By screaming out cusses makes you look like a bigger idiot. Blind faith and fundementalism is what starts wars, becareful....history repeats its self

hey dick your just another dick out there who has nothing to worry or care about. i bet your white thats why your talking all your shit. thats why your not worried. if anyone should be in the front line
i should be people like you!

"I feel sorry for all of you people that feel like this war is the correct thing to do. Bush wants this war for his own PERSONAL reasons, and the innocent people of the United States and Iraq should not end up dead because of it. Bush feels like he needs to get back to Saddam because of the threat Saddam had on his father's life. This is not a war for truth and justice, it is a war for oil and for Bush's own personal feelings. Innocent people should not have to fight for that. I feel bad for you that you are so uneducated to think that war is the only option, because it is not. Have you ever asked yourself WHY the United Nations and the U.S.A's allies do not back Bush? It is because we can do other things to get Saddam out of Iraq than ambushing them. The 20 billion dollars spent on this war could be used to better educate ignorant people like you."


You my fair friend, are an idiot.

Weasels have no friends.
For good reasons.

i dont know about the other cities across the US but here in asheville NC, a swarm of highschool students had an unbelievably powerful march and free-speech rally. not only did they throw out unbelieveable stats but focused on being open minded to others opinions. as opposed to the plethora of people on the pro-war side who shoot down every anti-war idea. People kept telling me that walking out of school today was pointless but it was amazing and whether or not it makes a large difference its beatiful how much young people care about making a difference in their world for the better. They announced that the day war is declared, face it bush is a moron its going to happen, there will be an antiwar rally in asheville's pack place at 5pm, i highly suggest if your town does not have a plan to do this, do it yourself. YOU can make a difference. it all starts with one person and we can make history and stand up for our beliefs on opposing this pointless war. do you realize how many things we could use the war funds for in our communities fror education, needy families. Our economy isn't perfect and i doubt this will help. and oil! try this isn't just for oil, we get plenty of oil from venezuela and they're on strike so think about if all these lives are really worth all of the things you're saying they're for . and for the many of you lashing out on people, chill out for a second and get some stats to back up your mouth because all the stats im seeing are amazing and are for the anti war side so before you start posting your crude name calling, do some research and get back to us with some intelligent comments.

You are refering to the individuals protesting the war in iraq as idiots, or those lacking inteligence, when you can't think of anything better to do than refer to every person that supports peace as a hippie or dope smoker. My father once told me that the only reason a persons swears is because they are ignorant and have a small vocabulary, yours must be the smallest in all the land. In only you could realize how hypocritical this war is. We are going to attack iraq for not fullfilling UN standards, when we areselves our not even living up to UN standards by attacking without UN support. We expect everyone to drop their weapons of mass destruction, when we refuse to do so ourselves. How is it that we are so afraid of everyone else using atomic weapons when we are the only county on this earth that has used one in war. Well thats all i got to say!!!!
Seeeeeeeee Yahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

MTSU's peaceful protest of 600 anti-war activists and about 50 pro-war activists was the best peace protest that I have been too. We had a lot of news coverage. 600 people signed a petition, we marched from MTSU's campus to the courthouse to hear men, women, ministers, and mothers speak, then we walked across the street to face the pro-war demonstrators and delivered our petition to Bart Gordon's Office. Pro-war people drove around in their big trucks and SUV's, waving American flags, and girls flashing the peace activists. The Fifth Estate, the oldest anarchist magazine in the U.S.) filmed the protest. On tape we have the pro-war activists saying "God wants war". And in response to the girl raising her bra and shirt to us. "Yeah, I think America is great, we need to go to war". "Why", the videorrapher asked. "Because we have American cheerleaders showing their tits."

"Go home hippies",. "Support your troops," and "Shut-up" were the the lines I heard the most at MTSU. Come on people!!! If you are going to open your pro-war mouth, say somthing Intellegent. Have you not thought of another word for us. "Hippies" is what, a 35 year old word! Yeah, we support our troops in coming home. How about you sign up at the recruitment office and beg to be sent over to Kuwait, Iraq, or someplace in harms way. "Shut-up"...Apparently you haven't gotten out of your elementary school mentality. And you probably don't know your countries history.

My main thoughts on war:
*We need to spend the money we use for military funding on education, well-fare, and feeding thrid world countries. 50 cents of every tax dollar goes to millitary spending. 6 cents goes towards education!
We wouldn't even scratch the military budget's surface if we took money out to pay for every MTSU student to go to MTSU for 4 years.
*Bush, Ashcroft, Rumsfield, and Roves!! Listen to your country. Can't you see that we are not wanting war in IRAQ!!!!
*When will the war end??
*Why must we kill thousands of innocent people, just to try and get one out of office?
*Weapons: Come on, we all know that our military can drop more missiles in one night than we did over the course of the war in 91.

Update Time

http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~27080~1223897,00.html#

I support your decision to walk out. My school 2 had people walk out yesterday and it was a large portion about 1/4. Some were there jsut to get out of class but others....were truely supporting the antiwar protest.
Some people said that you didn't have any reasons.
Let me give you a few
1 they attacked us..an act of terrorism. So what do we do we attack them right back and kill as many if not more them they did .
2 Bush is making assumtions and pointing fingers. He doesn't honestly know what he's fighting he just knows he's fighting
3 Yeah We should support our government but how can we support it when it's decisions are violent and cruel.
4 how do we knwo iraq attack who the hell knows that it wasn't americans who just hate the government???
5 Iraq as a country has yet to attack as a country. Just as an illeged part of the government

think about it
do we really want to take that risk
this isn't the twenties where you can't destroy the world.

MANY PEOPLE DO NOT SUPPORT THE AMERICANS IN THEIR CAMPAIN AND WHY SHOULD THEY.
LOOK AT WHAT THE AMERICANS HAVE DONE TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD.
LET ME START AT KOREA WERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN, COMMUNISM FOR KOREA IN THE 1950's OR THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE, THOU THEY HELPED THE AMERICANS MASACERED, RAPED THE VILLAGE WOMEN AND DESTROYED THEIR COUNTRY.
SO FAR THIS IS ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED BUT THERE IS MUCH MORE THE AMERICANS HAVE DONE SUCH AS BULLING IRAQ AND MANY OTHER STATES EVEN AMERICAN FREINDLY STATES.

MANY PEOPLE DO NOT SUPPORT THE AMERICANS IN THEIR CAMPAIN AND WHY SHOULD THEY.
LOOK AT WHAT THE AMERICANS HAVE DONE TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD.
LET ME START AT KOREA WERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN, COMMUNISM FOR KOREA IN THE 1950's OR THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE, THOU THEY HELPED THE AMERICANS MASACERED THEIR OWN PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES, RAPED THE VILLAGE WOMEN AND DESTROYED THEIR COUNTRY.
SO FAR THIS IS ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED BUT THERE IS MUCH MORE THE AMERICANS HAVE DONE SUCH AS BULLING IRAQ AS YOU NO OF AND MANY OTHER STATES EVEN AMERICAN FREINDLY STATES.

There was a walkout at Belfast Area High School yesterday, approximately 100 students (in a school of 600) walked out. Only about 5 of those were pro-war.

They marched around the downtown area for over an hour, chanting, holding signs. Several newspapers covered the story.

You can find one such story at http://belfast.villagesoup.com

There is a great photo of me with my fist in the air, near an orange poster reading "War Begins with 'Dubya'."

Is that a mullet under that cap?

To be opposed to war completely (as many of the protesters are) is to denounce the means by which Americans attained their freedom and therefore their freedom itself. Although it is unquestionably a last resort, war has been a necessary tool throughout history in preventing oppressive powers from spreading their terror. Despite the fact that most anti-war protestors don't seem to pay any attention to historically violent and oppressive states such as China and Communist Russia, most would agree that Hitler was a threat to freedom and peace throughout the world. War was the only way to stop him - there's simply no room to argue about it.

Why should the U.S. attack Iraq? Thus far Saddam Hussein has violated 17 UN resolutions. This fact alone has rendered the UN useless, since it has done nothing effective to counter such violations. As of now, in dealing with Iraq diplomatically, the UN has failed utterly.

Iraq shoots at U.S. planes. Just because their anti-aircraft weapons have fallen short of taking down our planes doesn't mean it can't happen in the future.

Saddam Hussein has yet to account for vast stores of weapons of mass destruction we know he had. In other words, we know he had them before, but he hasn't proven to us that he destroyed them. Because he has failed to cooperate with weapons inspectors, force is needed. Also, inspectors are incapable of detecting small amounts of anthrax that can be used for terrorist purposes, so even if he "cooperated" with inspectors it wouldn't make a difference in combatting Iraqi terrorist cells.

The Iraqi dictator (yes, he's not a president) has also used chemical/biological weapons on his own people, and he deliberately positions military facilities and heavy weaponery in the middle of urban areas so that in destroying them the U.S. might be blamed for civilian casualties that may result. Furthermore, the argument that we shouldn't "rush into war" and instead wait longer is ridiculous. We have been waiting 12 years for Saddam Hussein to cooperate.

Finally, that the vast majority of all anti-war protests occur because of liberal detestation of President Bush is obvious. Consider when Clinton bombed Iraq during his presidency. Protests of this magnitude weren't to be found anywhere in the U.S., when he didn't even wait for any authority approval. Bush, on the other hand, has waited for UN resolutions, UN Security Council approval, and Congress. Who else should he wait for approval from, France?

Because of our freedom, people against either all war or this particular war can voice their opinions safely. However, should the U.S. go to war, I urge all such protesters to rally behind the U.S. military and give our soldiers support.

I apologize for the typo in the above statement. "Weaponery" should read "weaponry".

Ummm, no thanks...

Geez, can't you guys freshen up that script? Every one of these half assed excuses has been addressed hundreds of times...

...you guys are obviously spammers...spitting on the board but not reading any responses...go away...

After having read this thread two things become glaring obvious: that some people have confused WAR with personal attacks and that there are entirely too many uneducated ignorant people with opinions. Peoples' personal lives have little to no bearing on the fact that they don't believe in war other than how they're socialized. First of all, in Philadelphia's effort on March 5th I saw thousands of people from all walks of life and various generations. Primarily, however, protests are being ascribed to by young people. This only leads to the seemingly trite observation that we are the children of the baby boomers. As for the person who was making the deranged accusations that someone was a such and such tree hugger and pot-head...ask your parents what they were doing during the Vietnam War and Civil Rights movements. Anyone who feels that they can simply watch the news and garner real information about what's happening is just plain stupid...how do you think the media works in terms of campaigns? Do you really think it'd be any different with a war campaign? I think it's a shame that the youth of America doesn't realize that when they graduate high school, for example, there is a nomial number of classmates that go on to serve in the US Armed Forces, in hopes of earning college tuition...well kids, guess how the government makes this affordable. As for any of you who sadly believe that you're safe because the US has the strongest militia: it doesn't fucking matter much when we aggrivate the entire international community. Don't condone senseless acts of stupidity. Also, don't stumble with your words against me, while I respect and appreciate that you're young and unapathetic I advise that you be careful in how you address others, profanely lashing out only serves to make you look stupid...please address all further comments to my email address. I'm a doctoral candidate for Political Science at Temple University. My high school boyfriend serves in the Navy, and I have two brothers in high school. Before I decided to go back to school I was working in NJ for the General Assembly Republicans...I am a registered Republican, and yes...I voted for George W. Bush. And for this, I am truly truly sorry.

I am glad you have time to receive your doctorate. Unfortunately, I was providing the blanket of security that you sleep under every night, and have yet to receive my Bachelor's degree. And, I am sorry that my parents were not part of the marches on Washington. My father, like his father before him, was killed in combat. As long as your head is buried in the books, you need to keep it that way. Like I said before: What have YOU personally done to benefit your country? Ever donate time in the emergency room at a VA hospital? How about serving Thanksgiving dinner to the homeless? What gives you the right to voice your opinion about anything? What will you receive for your lifetime of sloth and ignorance? You suck off the sacrifices of hard-working, patriotic Americans and then you have the gall to question the means? You are probably on a scholarship for being a minority. Figure it out: I am a fifth-generation Los Angelino (Irish-American) and not one government agency has given me a break, yet I accept the way things are in the liberal state in which I live. I have been to war and am fortunate enough to realize that you need to root out evil before it becomes a problem. When would you decide to get on board with the program, after your study hall is blown up by some terrorist? Something that you seemed to have missed out on while you were studying.

If President Bush is going about things wrong, what do YOU suggest? I bet you have no solution to keeping our country safe. But you are the first one to protest his actions as self-fulfilling and arrogant. Typical, uninformed college girl whose only goal is to jump on what may seem to be the anti-American bandwagon at your campus.

I find it shameful and appalling that someone of your "intelligence" can not see that this was not started by Bush, but by the lack of foresight on the Clinton administration. Do you think after 8 months in office, all of this stuff decided to go down? It had at least eight years in the making, under the radar of the diminished military (thank you , Bill), CIA, and FBI. The mess was laid on his lap, and you would rather be killed by a terrorist bomb than keeping the patriotic and American spirit alive.

I find it rather embarrassing that the youth of America does not realize the sacrifices some of us have made, and continue to make, while they enjoy the freedoms and "rights" I helped to give them. Thanks; you are welcome. Good luck with the doctorate thing; I have to put my education on hold so you can enjoy that freedom I am providing.

Military Mike, you need to get out more. Shut off the talk radio crap. Clinton, clinton, clinton, clinton. Who gives a shit? You think this is a site inhabited by members of the Democratic Leadership Council? Most folks here were AGAINST Clinton's policies. Clinton was Republican lite. So spare us the "It was Clinton's fault" crap.
I wish Clinton would just whip out his cock and show it to all these brainwashed rightwingers. Then maybe they'd shut up, already.
You can also spare us the martyrish, I was protecting you while you went to college bullshit. Ever heard of the GI Bill? I used it to go to college. There are many many veterans that come to this site. They have overcome their brainwashing and have alot more to offer this country than morons like you.
What about your hero GW? Draft dodging AWOL chickenhawk rich college frat boy. Why doesn't that stick in your craw?
Your tired, lame arguments have been debunked and destroyed repeatedly at this site. If you took the time to look around here, instead of picking on highschool girls (typical rightwing move) you would learn something, and spare us your naive Limbaugh rhetoric.

I have one question for you: Where do you live? Probably in the country you bad-mouth, while sucking up a scholarship while you plot evil in my country.

One of America's strongpoints is the right to choose. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE MY COUNTRY, GET OUT. I am sure there is a country or land that views the world the same as you. I think you should start in Candlyland, then work your way Idiotsville.

If you don't like people questioning your chickenhawk hero, why don't you move to one of the US's puppet governments, like Guatemala, El Salvador, or Columbia? You, being a fascist moron, seem to confuse hating the national security state, Bush, and big oil, with hating one's country.

Maybe if you left your trailer and went to college, you would learn some logic. For example, the Strawman Argument you and the other Limbaugh dittoheads rely on to make their case.

Yes, go to Guatemala. Then you can join a deathsquad and kill anyone who questions El Presidente. Y'know, like schoolgirls, nuns, peasant self help groups, union organizers. You would love it their!

But before you spout about protecting our freedom, read this quote from a real military man, not a braindead dittohead:

Smedley Butler on Interventionism
-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

MidgetMinded Mike: "One of America's strongpoints is the right to choose. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE MY COUNTRY, GET OUT."

Obviously MMM thinks the right to choose means he gets to do the choosing...

...don't worry, MMM, when we are done plotting evil in YOUR country, well clean up our mess and lock the door before going to bed.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

MidgetMinded Mike: "One of America's strongpoints is the right to choose. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE MY COUNTRY, GET OUT."

Obviously MMM thinks the right to choose means he gets to do the choosing...

...don't worry, MMM, when we are done plotting evil in YOUR country, well clean up our mess and lock the door before going to bed.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I think you are wrong is saying that we are better off that these wars happened. The country Vietnam is ruined and millions of people were killed to accomplish nothing. The country reunified under Communist control so we did not even accomplish our goal we only added to the suffering in the world and destroyed many nations. There is no direct connection between the Al-queda and Suddam Hussein and while Suddam Hussein is a truly evil human being and should be stopped do you honestly think our country can restore order in the Middle East. We will kill thousands of people and given our past actions it is likely will put someone in power who is not any better than Suddam Hussein but will control the oil so we can make more money off of it. If we don't put anyone in power there will be more war and bloodshed among the warring ethnic groups and religion. We will increase the risk of terrorism if we go in unilaterally because there will be more resentment for the United States, we will fuel hatred and our allies will not stand by us because many of them object to this war. September 11th happened because we supported Osama Bin Laden and his group when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, we gave them money to buy weapons and once they defeated the Soviet Union we turned our back on them and let Osama Bin Laden run the country and mistreat all of the people. With the power and weapons they had from our funding they attacked us on September 11th and now we are going after Suddam Hussein. I think you need to learn more about a topic before you debate it. Furthermore, no one in these protests and marches said anything about supporting Suddam Hussein we just object to making the situation in the Middle East worse. Don't be so quick to make judgements when you don't know enough about what you're talking about.

"September 11th happened because we supported Osama Bin Laden and his group when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, we gave them money to buy weapons and once they defeated the Soviet Union we turned our back on them and let Osama Bin Laden run the country and mistreat all of the people"

Could you possibly be more of an asshole? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you make innacurate blunders like this? This is tyoical troll-speak. Guess you have nothing better to do.

Nice to see you doing such a bang up job of being 'correct', citing your 'sources', and 'dispatching' people attempting to express their opinions in an open forum. Way to go. Idiot. And a hypocrite too. The only time you decide to play your game is when it benefits you. Otherwise you toss out these vague arrogant insults and think you're convincing people of something other than your own incompent ignorance, and in this regard you are mistaken.

tell me where I'm wrong.

A W said, "September 11th happened because we supported Osama Bin Laden and his group when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, we gave them money to buy weapons and once they defeated the Soviet Union we turned our back on them and let Osama Bin Laden run the country and mistreat all of the people. With the power and weapons they had from our funding they attacked us on September 11th and now we are going after Suddam Hussein. I think you need to learn more about a topic before you debate it."

The above statement is certainly an uneducated one, and I will demonstrate quickly that a person who needs to "learn more about a topic before you debate it" is the one who wrote it.

When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, the U.S. did not support Osama Bin Laden. We supported the Taliban, which later gained control of Afghanistan and harbored Al Qaeda. Where does the idea that "with the power and weapons they had from our funding they attacked us on September 11th" come from? Unless it is being suggested that we gave the Taliban the box cutters with which to hijack the planes that were flown into the twin towers as well as the money to buy the tickets, I don't understand how this "argument" was contrived.

It's not difficult for someone reading this thread to see the lack of intelligence that guides (or misguides, I should say) the opinions of those at this site who are anti-war. My previous statement still has yet to be challenged, and to simply say, "that issue has already been addressed," won't suffice. After all, after listening to your liberal (and therefore idiotic) rambling for quite some time, I am well aware that when you "address" an issue you fall very short of resolving it.

I would like to add something in response to another of A W's claims that "no one in these protests and marches said anything about supporting Saddam Hussein."

EVERYONE in those protests is supporting Saddam Hussein, whether or not it's intentional notwithstanding. By being opposed to forcefully disarming Iraq and uprooting Saddam Hussein's rule protesters therefore oppose the only means by which the above goals could objectives could be reached. Why don't you just try asking the dictator - whose evil you didn't deny - if he will resign? I'm sure that will get the job done without upsetting the utopian pacifists, right? Better yet, why don't you ask him in person?

I feel the need to correct myself before a liberal has the chance to do it. "Goals could" is a mistake and should be ignored.

Ryan Miller, you are an ignorant right wing thug. Quit acting as if you know something we don't, because you don't. Repeating what Limbaugh, Savage, or one of the other various extreme rightwing clones says does not make you smart. It makes you a sick pathetic moron.
March your fat ass down to the recruiter, enlist in the infantry, and shut the fuck up. You are a shill for the biggest collection of chickenhawks, crooks, liars, warmongers, and psychos ever collected in the White House, and that's saying alot.
You and your kind are a disgrace to America, you are destroying this country. Why don't you and all the other corporate whores and thugs go live in Qatar. Fucking leave us alone.

RIGHT ON, hazard!
Yes, and take all your bootlicking shills in pay with you!

Not a mullet. No.

Just long hair.

Though I like mullets... or at least the word, because it sounds like some kind of small furry hamster-like animal, I'd never wear one.

Although both Limbaugh and Savage are brilliant conservative speakers, I rarely have the opportunity to listen to either one. However, if I had gotten my knowledge (which obviously surpasses yours on this issue) from them, what difference would it make? Would the fact that they're correct change because you don't like them?
Your response was humorous, to say the least. Who do you think you get your information from? Liberals who are genuinely concerned with the future of America? These protests are all organized by communist fronts - if you're too unintelligent to notice that you have no business engaging in a conversation that requires a baby's IQ. Who gives you your information? I want a real answer. Chomsky? Jimmy Carter? Clinton-lovers? Let's face it - the source of your emotion (and that's what it is, because it certainly isn't intellect) most definitely comes from America haters. Just look at who's on your team, idiot. Jimmy Carter has LOVED every one of our enemies! He said Cuba is a wonderful place. Tell that to the Cubans who risk their lives to come over here.
What makes you think I'm not already in the infantry? And what makes you think that most people in the infantry would disagree with me? Does that make a difference? Does the fact that I'm right depend on that? Certainly not.
It's interesting that you think a person should join the army (if he's not already in it) just because he espouses a particular war. I bet you believe that fires can occasionally be devastating. It is very possible that, following your belief that they are threatening, you support the idea of firemen trying to put out such fires. Should I become an idiot like you, though, and tell you to become a fireman if you hold that belief?
Your comment failed to demonstrate that I don't know more than you do. On the contrary, your failure to address any issues with valid arguments demonstrated your lack of understanding. You tried to attack me by attacking Limbaugh and Savage, yet you didn't use ANY arguments to prove that they are incorrect.
I also find it typical (of the "extreme" left) that you compared me to a "corporate thug", as if many liberals are not also tied to corporate scandals. Or maybe you intended to make a more profound point by that statement. Maybe you tried to say that I am a capitalist, and that I should leave all of the communists (like you and other "extreme" liberals) alone. And why did you tell me to go to Qatar? How is that country relevant to this discussion? Or is it a habit of yours to bring up impertinent material?
I'm looking forward to seeing a thoughtful response from you, although I know that it would be utopian of me to expect one. Perhaps you'll also consider writing your name and e-mail address. It's doubtful. The name you have chosen, "Hazard", certainly seems like an appropriate one; after all, that's what you pose to this country.

With this statement:
-Although both Limbaugh and Savage are brilliant conservative speakers...-
More like mouth pieces for the CIA.
You just shot yourself in the nads. Good going.

You sound like a 10-year-old. I'm going to break this down even further for liberals who couldn't understand it the first time. When you say something like, "[Limbaugh and Savage are] like mouth pieces for the CIA", you are not making a logical argument. You are attempting to discredit them (and me) by using ad hominem rhetoric.
The title of my previous comment still applies: if you're going to argue, learn how to use arguments.

-1.Just look at who's on your team, idiot
2.engaging in a conversation that requires a baby's IQ
3.Should I become an idiot like you-
[But keep it up, no stones...]

The point I was making was that you only use rhetoric. I have yet to see one argument from you that challenged my previous comments. And since "hazard" said that people like me are destroying this country, it only made sense to bring up the fact that Jimmy Carter abets our enemies, since similar people who love our enemies are the ones who organize these major anti-war protests.
The most recent nation-wide protest was organized by the National Youth and Student Peace Coalition. Among the members of this coalition are the Young Communist League, Young Democratic Socialists, and the Young People's Socialists League. That the policy of the NYSPC itself is based on erroneous opinions is clear. A statement issued by the organization, approved on Nov. 26, 2002, reads, "Indeed, we recognize the strong historical role the US has played in the current situation by providing decades of support for Saddam Hussein, including chemical weapons programs." This is simply not true. The U.S. never provided chemical weapons or aid for such programs. It is possible that some American companies gave help to Iraq in that respect, but the offical U.S. government never contributed to the development of chemical weapons.
My main point, though, is this: rhetoric is fine if it makes sense (as calling you an idiot certainly does), and it is ok as long as valid arguments are used as well. As of now, ad hominem attacks are all I've seen in response to my comments.

Ryan Miller, you are an idiot, thinking you’re bringing some god given truth to this board. You are ignorant arrogant presumptuous and deserving of no reciprocal respect. Having said that, I’ll tell you why.
Moron assumptions like:
"-bring up the fact that
Jimmy Carter abets our enemies, since similar people who love our enemies-" [ I don’t suppose you mean the U.S. corporations who supplied Saddam with the tools of his trade. No, you mean the individuals who are against mass murder for power and resources] you equate this to 'loving the enemy' a vast and twisted leap of reason.
Second, who gives a flying fuck which organization does the organizing
as long as I don’t have to sign into their progom. If it’s the communists or
the boy scouts it doesn’t matter, commies always have been good at organizing so fucking what? Listening and responding to you doesn’t make me an idiot, just pissed off; at your self imbued righteousness.
Third, your bland assumption denying U.S. involvement in arming Saddam is showing your inability to accept reality, together with your ignorance. Not surprising if you listen to
Rush without gagging. That moron only gives fools like you easy and false assurance that you know what’s going on. Rush is a big fat Stupid Idiot.
Thank you Al Frankin.
“-It is possible that some American companies gave help to Iraq in that respect, but the offical [(misspelling, by the way)] U.S. government never contributed to the development of chemical weapons-”
Self contradictory statement, you arrogant fool. there are massive documents recording otherwise.
ah you waste my time, bozo,.plug back into Rush&Savage and take your pseudo wisdom with you.
You deserve any ad hominem thrown at you,hypocrite, because you initiated the practice. Fuck off and die.

This is really becoming interesting.
I will start by apologizing for my accidental spelling error in my recent comment. Sheepdog was right - the correct spelling is "official". However, I will now point out a few mistakes in his vitriolic statement (I'm assuming sheepdog is a "he", since I don't know of many women who would say things like "fuck off and die").

What does "progom" mean? I wasn't sure if sheepdog misspelled "program" or if he misused a misspelled form of "pogrom".
When a person uses a lot of adjectives in a row (as in the phrase "ignorant arrogant presumptuous and deserving of no reciprocal respect"), it is important to separate at least some of those adjectives with commas.
There is a problem with the phrase "'loving the enemy' a vast and twisted leap of reason". Sheepdog seems to have jumped excitedly from "loving the enemy" to "a vast and twisted leap of reason". Next time, he might consider using a hyphen to connect the two and add clarity to his writing.
He also said, "Second, who gives a flying fuck which organization does the organizing
as long as I don’t have to sign into their progom." Aside from the aforementioned incorrect word at the end of the sentence, the subject appears to be "who", therefore leading most people to presume the writer was attempting to ask a question. If so, he should've used a question mark - a most appropriate punctuation mark for interrogative sentences.
There are a few more mistakes in sheepdog's comment, but I will ignore those for the time being. At the very least, his comment should make it clear that I am more righteous than he is. Why would my righteousness be considered "self imbued" (by the way, is it possible that he thought about using a hyphen between those two words?) when the accuser said "fuck off and die"? It's quite obvious that my harshest word, "idiot", isn't even the least bit comparable to such slime.
I didn't even feel the least bit challenged by the following: "I don’t suppose you mean the U.S. corporations who supplied Saddam with the tools of his trade. No, you mean the individuals who are against mass murder for power and resources." It is worth noting that Saddam Hussein fits perfectly the description of a mass murderer for power and resources. What did you think this entire debate was all about, sheepdog?
You don't care whether or not communists organized these protests? Do you understand that your indifference toward that fact causes you to inadvertently support the ideology responsible for the greatest mass murderers in history (Stalin, Mao)?
What is the least bit contradictory about my sentence, “It is possible that some American companies gave help to Iraq in that respect, but the offical [sic] U.S. government never contributed to the development of chemical weapons"? Apparently you are more like the communist organizers of anti-war protests than you profess to be, since the obvious implication of your comment was that the government is no different than the private sector.
I am waiting for your "massive documents" that prove the U.S. government was responsible for arming Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons. Since liberals like you are making the accusation, the burden of proof is on you.
My final point has to do with the following statement: "You deserve any ad hominem thrown at you,hypocrite, because you initiated the practice." You must have just made that up, since it's not hard at all to scroll up a few responses in order to see that ad hominems were being used long before I first commented.
I am, admittedly, growing tired of this useless thread. No one pays attention to logic (except me and Military Mike), and therefore no real truth will be found here. I urge you all to critically think about everything both the left and the right throw at you, and I am convinced that if you do so you will realize that the latter is correct.

I hearby move that all people on all sides, antiwar and profascism alike, kindly shut the fuck up about spelling and grammar.

Like some inane pissing contest, you guys think better proofreading skills gives credibility to your cause. Just shut the hell up, please.

Thank you, you may now continue beating this dieing horse deeper into the ground.

To the willfully ignorant rightwing thug that is corrupting Indymedia with his spew: http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1992/h920519l.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/publications/iraqgate/iraqgate.html
http://www.webcom.com/~lpease/collections/hidden/iraqgate.htm
http://nsarchive.chadwyck.com/igintro.htm

This is so normal for students.
When they grow up then they will be able to think with out the acidemic influence. Things will become clear.

Pogrom is Russian for "devastation". During the 19th century Russia there
were attacks by mobs against the Jews. These were often approved or
condoned by those in authority.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSpogroms.htm

Like, oops.