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Richard Perle Is An Israeli Spy (Corrected Title)

by re-repost Thursday, Feb. 06, 2003 at 3:54 AM

Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the Israeli Embassy





"Richard Perle----One of Bush's foreign policy advisors, he is the

chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. A very likely Israeli

government agent, Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's

office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught

him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the

Israeli Embassy."

http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=52480&group=webcast

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Make Your Fucking Mind Up

by Dumb Person Hater Thursday, Feb. 06, 2003 at 3:58 AM

You antisemitic mother fucker. I hope Justin Fashanu bums you while eating garlic.

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"Anti Semitic"?

by Christian Thursday, Feb. 06, 2003 at 4:40 AM

Oh gee, there's the "A" word again ("anti-Semitic").

What exactly does it mean?

(I always thought it meant that you wanted to put Jews into gas ovens.)

Are you saying this article isn't true? And therefore the author is anti-Semitic for posting it? (why would that be?)

Or are you saying it IS true, and the author is "anti-Semitic" for posting it? (why would that be?)

Which is it, and why would that be "anti-Semitic"? Would an article claiming that there's a German spy in the Bush administration ( whether true or not) elicit a similiar slur from you?





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When I coached Forest

by Brian Clough Thursday, Feb. 06, 2003 at 4:44 AM

We had a German centre forward, lovely lad he was too. But what I think the poster was saying is, the article is not true and has been removed from UK Indy.

This site is becoming as racist as the Australian ones'.

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IS RICHARD PERLE AN ISRAELI SPY?

by Patriot Thursday, Feb. 06, 2003 at 7:06 AM

Well, actually, I just checked on the Indy UK site, and the article IS still posted.

It's called: "Israeli advisors, who are they"

Not that that would necessarily mean much, but it certainly does show a on-going, non-stop campaign of slurs and misinformation with any topic dealing with Israel.

NOW back to the original article. IS THIS TRUE? IS RICHARD PERLE AN ISRAELI SPY??? WAS HE FIRED FOR PASSING SECRET INFORMATION TO THE ISAELIS IN THE 70'S???

(any history buffs out there?)

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Mr.

by Jim McMIchael Friday, Mar. 14, 2003 at 1:45 AM
jamesmcmichael@hotmail.com

"Anti-semitic" is an absurd charge. A traitor is a traitor, and that is what the whole zionist group of thugs driving this country at present are: traitors to the American people. Anti-zionist is NOT anti-semitic (as most Israelis are not even Semites); give name-calling a rest. Political correctness aside, gangsters should not be allowed to deflect criticism of a corrupt agenda (using Americans/American money to fight a zionist proxy war) by name-calling. If opposing the wholesale destruction of American constitutional government by a gang of zionist spies/thugs is "anti-semitic", so be it . . .

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"Anti-semitic" ??

by Jim McMIchael Friday, Mar. 14, 2003 at 1:48 AM
jamesmcmichael@hotmail.com

"Anti-semitic" is an absurd charge. A traitor is a traitor, and that is what the whole zionist group of thugs driving this country at present are: traitors to the American people. Anti-zionist is NOT anti-semitic (as most Israelis are not even Semites); give name-calling a rest. Political correctness aside, gangsters should not be allowed to deflect criticism of a corrupt agenda (using Americans/American money to fight a zionist proxy war) by name-calling. If opposing the wholesale destruction of American constitutional government by a gang of zionist spies/thugs is "anti-semitic", so be it . . .

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Shahin

by Shahin S. Saturday, Mar. 15, 2003 at 7:25 PM

Anti-Zionist is anti-Semetic because if u do not like Zionists you do not like Jews and their acclaim to their father land, Israel. This site is anti-Semetic and is trying everything to bash the Jews. It is clear that your bigotry is your jealousy of the Jews.

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anti-zionist not anti-semitic

by irpy Saturday, Mar. 15, 2003 at 7:35 PM

as a jew who once lived in israel, I know that being against zionism is not about being against jews.

I also see a lot of anti-jewish posts on this wire by people who are either overt racists or by people who lump all jews with either Israel or with a few fucked up people.

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It is interesting...

by Diogenes Sunday, Mar. 16, 2003 at 4:24 AM

... you can only keep the lid on the truth so long. All of the main NeoCon Chickenhawks have names like: Perle, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and Fleischer. Perle and Wolfowitz hold dual Citizenship Israeli and American. It is an interesting quirk of U.S. Law that this is the only country in which you can legally be a dual Citizen.

Zionism is a political movement which has nothing to do with the practice of Judaism. Zionist attempts to do so have fallen flat on their dishonest face - as attested to by Orthodox Jews protesting Israeli War Crimes in the Occupied Territories.

The Motto of the Mossad is: "By Way of Deception Thou Shalt do War". Hmmm????

By the way Perle was fired because he was caught on tape discussing Classified Information with a representative of the Israeli Embassy.

Israeli War Crimes with the Zionist Government of Israel using Judaism as a fig leaf to hide behind is generating real Anti-Semitism.

Criticism of Inhumane behavior by the IDF under the auspices of the Israeli government and defended by those whose loyalty is first to Israel and Second to their homeland of birth is not Anti-Semitism, Anti-Jewish, or any other slander the apologists for Israeli CRIMES would like to pin on it. It is opposition to crimes commited by people who also happen to be Jews. Being Jewish is not an excuse for murder and mayhem. More people are awakening to this. The game is playing out and is destined to backfire to the detriment of all good JEWS (not Zionists who deserve every bit of the backlash).

I defy any of you Apologists for Israeli Criminality to cite to me the passage in Torah that supports your beliefs.

There are now over 1,000 IDF members in jail for refusing duty in the Occupied Territories.

An interesting article written by a Jew: http://www.rense.com/general35/poawer.htm

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Erratum

by Diogeness Sunday, Mar. 16, 2003 at 4:33 AM

The second sentence in the second paragraph should read: ..."Zionist attempts to prove so...."

There are Talmudi References frequent used but there is nothing in Torah that supports Zionist claims to the land they have stolen.

Also in Racist Israel Sephardim (Jews of Arab descent) are treated as second class citizens.

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why is everything that questions wrong doing by Jews anti-semite

by Omar Sunday, Mar. 16, 2003 at 7:53 AM
nd4weed3@hotmail.com

is it because they are the self proclaimed "chosen people". Or is it because (unfortunately) their ancestors were tortured, maimed and raped by the nazis so therefore NOW when they are doing it no one should question them. Im not an anti semite but u can bet your ass Ill fucking question you when you try to insult my intelligence. This war on Iraq is to weaken a regional rival for Israel, create instability in the region especially for Iran and Syria; two countries openly hostile to Israel, Oil, domination of the region, weakening the Palestinian cause by taking pressure off it, setting in a Pro-US puppet government in Iraq and last but not least ensuring that Israel turns out to be the most powerful and therefore most important "friend" in the region. If this bullshit administration really wants to target states that are a threat to the US why not go after one that is openly hostile and has the power to deliver weapons of mass destruction A.K.A nuclear weapons, namely North Korea. Does this administration really think that its fooling people when it says that it is going after Iraq because of its weapons of mass destruction. Israel has a atleast 200 nuclear war heads. Why isnt the US going after Israel? Is it because of the pressure the Jewish community in this country puts on American policy makers ( many of whom happen to be Jewish). You bet your ass it is. Every person of Jewish origin anywhere in the world is a citizen of the state of Israel. I guess you could say their just being patriotic. Oh and if some clown wants to write to me (im talking of the people who disagree) please make it intellectually stimulating otherwise to whatever you say my answer is "your mum". Last but not least remember (and I cant remember who said this) but fighting a war for peace is like fucking to preserve ones virginity. Increase the Peace.

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If Bush hates Palestinians, then why -

by MadMaxim Sunday, Mar. 16, 2003 at 8:00 AM

New Palestinian PM May Meet With Bush

55 minutes ago

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON - Once he is sworn in, the new Palestinian prime minister may be invited to the White House to meet with President Bush (news - web sites) as the administration accelerates its drive for a Middle East settlement and a Palestinian state.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&ncid=716&e=3&u=/ap/20030315/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_mideast

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ill believe it when i see it

by Omar Sunday, Mar. 16, 2003 at 8:03 AM

Ill believe it when I see the Palestinian PM in the white house. Wonder how long that poor guy is gonna last with that Butcher in power in Israel.

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HUMAN

by Robert Pladl Monday, Mar. 17, 2003 at 12:33 AM

ABSOLUTELY! He also had connections to Jonathan Pollard (Israeli Spy) and was the author of a the plan for Benyamin Netanyahu that sugested the U.S. should be cooerced into invading Iraq and that Irael could use the veil of this activity to transfer the Palestinian people (eliminate). He thought that it would take eight days of intense action to accomplish this. This foreign agent is now the architect of the Bush administrations Middle East policy.

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and what a wet day

by Weather man Monday, Mar. 17, 2003 at 4:15 AM

Talk about Perle, dear Lord. Hand me the towel, I want to throw in the ring.

Has anyone read the March, 17 2003, New Yorker article on honest Perle and his wheel'n-deal'n ways?

Khashoggi was one of the middlemen between Oliver North., ... the mullahs in Iran., ...known as the Iran-Contra scandal"

"Khashoggi is still brokering. In January of this year, he arranged a private lunch, in France, to bring together Harb Saleh al-Zuhair, a Saudi industrialist whose family fortune includes extensive holdings in construction, electronics, and engineering companies throughout the Middle East, and Richard N. Perle, chairman of the Defense Policy Board...."



Seymour Hersh's article linked for your reading pleasure.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/

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Dont u mean the Jew Yorker

by Omar Tuesday, Mar. 18, 2003 at 6:16 AM

And what is the Saudi pushing for? Bombing Israel? Your article states itself that the man was never convicted of any wrong doing (kashoggi)? WHat does that tell you? In America it means YOU R INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. In Israel it means because you have a muslim name your guilty. The man was involved in the Iran_contra affair (claimed by the article) and is walking around free??? So was Oliver North and many in the Reagan administration? How come you didnt ask if Reagan's still getting his pension? Funny how the jews have a knack of complaining about racism and discrimination and then turining around and doing the same thing. Is it any wonder that they have a reputation for being two faced and dishonest.

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????????

by ???????? Tuesday, Mar. 18, 2003 at 9:12 AM

????????????????????????????????????????????????

????????????????????????????????????????????????

??????????OMAR?????????????????????????????????

?????????????????????????????OMAR??????????????

?????????????OMAR??????????????????????????????

????????????????????????????????????????????????

?????????????????????OMAR??????????????????????

????????????????????????????????????????????????

????????????????????????????????????????????????

????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Holy Shit!

by where to start Wednesday, Mar. 19, 2003 at 5:32 AM

Man you people feed on rumor-mongering, misinformation and lies.

Jim writes that "Anti-zionist is NOT anti-semitic (as most Israelis are not even Semites)."

This is a common-claim made by anti-Semites esp. of the Nation of Islam Variety. Namely that Jews are not Semites but Europeans (or in their parlance, "so-callled Jews"). Learn a little history Jim. Jews were forced out of their homeland by an imperialist power (Rome). Israel is their home. Why anyone who supports national liberation struggles would ot support Jews in their struggle is very strange. And to most Jews it seems anti-Semitic.

Diogenes claims that Israelis are the only people who can hold dual citizenship in the US but this is untrue. Swiss and Egyptians (to name two) can both hold dual citizenship. In fact, the asshole who was convicted of selling fake id's to the 9-11 hijackers was a dual Egyptian-US citizen!

Lastly, Omar writes, "Or is it because (unfortunately) their ancestors were tortured, maimed and raped by the nazis so therefore NOW when they are doing it no one should question them.."

Persecution of the Jews is not restricted to Nazis. The Jews have been persecuted in every country because they were a minority, because they were blamed for the death of Jesus, the plague, communism, capitalism, industrialization, control of US foreign policy and..well, I think you get the picture.

Then there is the little issue of Israel's Arab neighbors failing to recognize her right to exist and declaring war on her. But I'm sure you would prefer to ignore that.

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I never said that Israel does not have the right to exist

by Omar Thursday, Mar. 20, 2003 at 6:36 AM

Dear where to start,

I would like to think that your an intellectual. Its funny how you seem to think that everything that is being said here is a lie. OK you tell me then why is this war being waged and please dont compare him to Hitler because that is bullshit. Also please tell me where I am incorrect. Last but not least it so easy for u to assume that I dont believe in the existence of Israel, which I do; i dont agree with the way it came into existance but I do believe that the people living there are a part of that land due to the passage of time. But that in no way means that I dont believe that the Palestinians get the short end of the stick every time. It also does not mean that I dont see the double standards where suicide bombers are termed as terrorist but an organized army that kills and maims innocent people in FAR greater numbers is not. The Israelis should stop building their settlements and give the Palestinians a seperate homeland where they can live according to their religion and way of life as is the right of every human being. Funny how u can remember attrocites commited against you 50 years ago but are blind when the same thing is being done by your people right NOW UNDER UR NOSES. Do U or the jews of Israel believe in the existence of a Palestinian homeland? To quote this guy who was on the Oprah Winfrey show today "Israel won the war in 6 days and has been in the 7th day since".

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Baffling

by Omar Thursday, Mar. 20, 2003 at 6:53 AM

Also correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that you were stating in some way that because of the past it is ok to look the other way with regards to Palestinian attrocities. Why am I forced to keep making this point that Jewish people cry everytime something happens that effects them but it is perfectly ok for them to do the same things to other people. Is it me or is their a serious flaw in the thinking of some jewish people.

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last point

by Omar Thursday, Mar. 20, 2003 at 7:22 AM

death of Jesus: DUH!!!

the plague: Which plague are u talking about. The one in the time of the pharoahs or the bubonic plague in Europe;

communism: Winston Churchill on a trip to the Soviet Union after the second world war stated that the Communist government was filled with "jews of the worst kind". Karl Marx was a jew.

capitalism: ????

industrialization: ????

control of US foreign policy ??? Jews were persecuted for taking control of US Foreign Policy ... THATS NEWS TO ME... WHEN?

and..well, I think you get the picture: I DONT.



And what does all of this have to do with the fact that Richard Perle and the other chicken hawks are pushing for war and this is in Israels favor :P THE US IS NOT ISRAEL

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Org.

by ASIA2020 Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 5:58 PM
asia_2020@hotmail.com

I completely agree with nd4weed3@hotmail.com >

and would like to add that, it is the murderous 2 Israeli agents, Richard Perle (Chairman of Pentagon Defense Advisory Board) and Paul Wolfowitz (U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary) along with U.S. VP Dick Cheney ( representing Big Oil) and Washington hawk Donald Rumsfeld - branded as the top "Neo Conservative" has being planning this war from 1991. They had only the control of the Pentagon during Clinton Era and were very frustrated due to the loss of the White House in 1992 and cursed Clinton for the loss of eight years

Their main aims are :

- To eliminate all threats to Israel and use the U.S. military might and money to create a permenant mini Jewish "super power " in the middle east. that is powerful enough to survive as it is and oppose if necessary to possible future liberal (Democrats) U.S. Administration

- To control all the oil resources in the Gulf region including the oil fields in the Caspian Sea. To attain this their priority is to nullify all the Iraqi oil contracts made with Russia & France and to install the likes of people like gangster Chalabi in post Saddam Iraq so that the total control of Iraqi oil will be vested with U.S. Big Oil and sizable profits will flow to the State of Israel in military hardware and financial aid.

- To eliminate by "any means" the emergence of any potential rival to the United States. The possible rival nations identified are United Europe (specially Germany & France), Russia, China & Japan. In this respect splitting Europe and creating disharmony is one of the recommendations by Richard Perle - "admittance to NATO is used in case of former East European countries and heavy financial assistance to U.K., Turkey and military assistance to combat terrorism in case of Spain."

- The current U.S. Administration is far more dangerous to the world than Adolf Hitler ever was with this alliance of Neo Cons, Zionists, Big Oil and a stupid puppet ( proven alcoholic) President who thinks he is a born again savior of the Christian world.

They do not care a damn about American public, the allies and International Comminity. ( Bush's refusal to ratify "Kyoto" is just one example. They are satisfied if the State of Israel, Big Industry specially Big Oil is protected thereby protecting their personal interests.

- They admit that they (Israelis ) are the actual owners of the wealth and resources of USA and the Amercan public ( a collection of dicarded cults and peasants from Europe, descendents of the Italian mafia, escaped Nazis, negro slaves, Latin American & Asian halfbreeds) are just working for them to generate wealth and in maintaining their interests. The Wall Street is property of Israel. The "stupid - second class" public ( Americans) can be pacified with doses of crude entertainment (NBA NFL WWF etc.) fast food and Hollywood soap opera.

- It is the humble duty of the American public and the International Community to remove the current U.S. Administration from power as soon as possible. Otherwise the world is going to be in deep shit !!!

- We feel that Powell is a fair substitute to lead the only remaining super power in this world. He should resign right now and announce his intent to run against Bush in 2004

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fools

by Fucking Plato Sunday, Mar. 23, 2003 at 8:32 AM

Good God what a bunch of fools.

A) A Semite is a Hebrew, Arab, Babylonian, Aramean, Ethiopian...basically any of a number of tribes in the Middle/Near East and Northern Africa. It does not mean "Jew." Not all Jewish people are, by racial extraction, of the Semitic tribes. Any fucking dictionary would tell you fools this. Please buy one.

B) The location of Israel was planned by the British and American governments (or the UN if you feel like believing in the power of that entity) after WW2, not the Zionists, and it was probably so placed to give a better handhold on oil reserves. The petroleum lobby was pretty huge back then too.

C) Calling the country Israel was probably supposed to be a selling point for American and European Jews, although even back then it created controversy. Many Jewish people felt it was blasphemous for the UN (or US) to set up a state that was supposed to be set up only after the coming of the Messiah. (It's a little like offering the Christians a homeland called Christland (or Christworld – I like that one too…).) Unfortunately, many perfectly reasonable, pacifist, well-educated Jewish Americans have confused the HOLY State of Israel-To-Come with the secular state that exists.

D) Omar, I don't think you're an anti-Semite specifically but you are one holy hell of a bigot. Please shut the fuck up, get your head out of your ass and buy a decent spell-checker for your word processing software. You're making those of us who are pro-Semitic (in the above sense) and anti-Zionist (in common sense) look like neo-nazis by association. Please shut up.

Your friend,

Shut the Fuck up.

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I can see why your name is "shut the fuck up"

by Omar Sunday, Mar. 23, 2003 at 11:55 PM

Hey Shut the fuck up,

do u ever get the feeling like your the soldier who wrote home saying that the whole company was out of step except him. What makes u such an expert Pluto? The state of Israel was created by the British and American governments eh? Is that why Jewish people carried out terrorist attacks (YES TERRORIST attacks) against the British to push them out (seems its ok if jews do it but bad when muslims do it). Also Jewish people must be nuts when they claim that this land has been theirs throughout history not to mention numerous historical facts and archaelogical finds that prove the point that it was at one time (thousands of years ago) inhabited by people of Jewish origin. Looks like sticking ones head up their ass is an art that you have mastered. Ill pass thank you very much. If U want a glass of water to wash down your foot let me know. Ill get you one.

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there it is again

by Omar Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 12:05 AM

What an art form this has begun,

im a bigot and ur not...lol... your precious. Why is it that freedom of speech is guaranteed by the constitution of this nation but NOT against the Jews.... ok... Zionists. Why is it that everytime they are questioned your a Nazi, or anti semite. Get past this name calling you shit stabber and come up with something original.. ;). Its so childish. Go and pull the wool over someones elses eyes. Im certainly not saying gas the Jews I am saying they should do the right thing. The sooner MOTHERFUCKERS like u understand that questioning people of Jewish origin for what they are doing wrong and holding them accountable for what they do is not the same as saying or acting in a way to rid them off the planet the sooner we can start talking about things that are the real problems. Think U can pull your head out of YOUR ass long enough to understand that, Also I am saying hold people who are responsible for these violations accountable not the whole race.

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Final point

by Omar Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 12:08 AM

The state was created by the Americans and British UNDER PRESSURE FROM ZIONIST ELEMENTS IN THEIR SOCIETY, like American Foreign Policy is now being dictated by them. Weapons of mass destruction my ass

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GOD HAVE MERCY ON US

by Mr Concerned Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 5:29 AM

All you folks have forgoten who is the owner of this earth. Anyone who is ashamed of him or his chosen people better look out. For my family and me we hold you blind spirts acountable for the lifting of God's grace from this country. When you are watching mine and your children taking there last breath dying from some Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical agent remember you turned your back on his people. You probably even protested with the Palistinian terriost in our streets to not remove the Iraqi terrior factories.

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Its not an international crime when americans are killed

by and Daniel Pearl was a spy too Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 5:47 AM

Daniel Pearl was also a zionist spy. let this pearl get the same treatment eh boys?

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dear little omar

by pluto the dog Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 7:45 AM

Dear dear little Omar. I will speak very slowly this time so that you will not misconstrue or misunderstand.

I am very much *opposed* to the manner in which the state of Israel has conducted itself both domestically and abroad. When I said I was "pro-Semite (in the above sense)" I meant I was pro Hebrew AND Arab. I assumed you would review what I had written above and understand what I meant. I see now that I was wrong to make that assumption. I will try to be more direct in the future. I was, by the way, writing that not just for your benefit, but for the benefit of the man who called you out on being a member of the Nation. I felt he was being foolish as well.

For the record, I do not call you a bigot because you dislike Israel, but because you perpetually refer to the Jews as a single body with one goal -- wealth and world domination. To treat a group of people as though they were a single unit, not a group of individuals, is prejudice, and when that is coupled with an intense dislike for that group, we call it bigotry. Definitions of those terms are also included in that dictionary you have been meaning to buy.

Finally, the state of Israel was not set up until the UN vote for partition in 1948, when the British mandate ended. The UN played an enormous part in the situation ("Situation" in this context means “placement.”) of Israel, and the American and British voices in the UN were very powerful -- some felt that the UN was simply a means of giving American policy an international veneer. This is why I made the statement regarding the American and British involvement in the creation of Israel. I hope that this is clearer now.

I do *not* think that you are stupid Omar, but I do think you are a self-righteous, bigoted, and ultimately, extraordinarily ignorant person. I wish you the best in your efforts to reach adulthood you dear, precious, little boy. You are our future, and I love you with all my heart.

Your friend,

Pluto

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You cant teach an old dog new tricks....

by Omar Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 8:33 PM

I hate to tell you this since Ur an expert but your not *speaking*.

What does this line tell you "The sooner MOTHERFUCKERS like u understand that questioning people of Jewish origin for what they are doing wrong and holding them accountable for what they do is not the same as saying or acting in a way to rid them off the planet the sooner we can start talking about things that are the real problems" No where have I stated it should be the race. I *assumed* U would understand I meant only the people doing wrong. Oh gee like u I guess I must have been wrong in assuming that too :P Ill try *speaking* a little slow for you too.

I looked up the word Jew in the dictionary. The translation was NOT in terms of race as u have stated above. A lot you know.

So you were around when Israel came in to being. There is no need to show off.

who cares about the technical shit of how the state of Israel came into being. I say mit again that it came into being because of the pressure placed on American and British administrations by Zionist elements in their society. The question is not how it came into being but what it is doing wrong.

When I say I am not anti semetic it means I am not anti semetic and yes I do know that arabs are semites too. I use the word *anti semetic* not for *experts* like you but for the *ordinary people* out there who are familiar with the term but not *technically*

Your right I am the future.

You should have done something about this problem when u had the chance in the past. I guess u were too busy acting in mickey mouse movies.

I also dont think your that stupid but I do think you are convinced your an intellectual. Ive got news for u. To be an intellectual you have got to do more than fire off statistics. You have got to stick to the subject.

Im sure Ill enjoy your reply

Omar





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My debating strategy

by pluto the dog Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 9:03 PM

I just love being a condescending halfwit. It's a strategy I use whenever I'm getting my ass kicked in an argument.

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Pluto for President......

by Omar Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 12:05 AM

I take it back,

your an *expert* and your so stupid u could be president of the United States. I dont know about the condescending but u are a halfwit. getting ur ass kicked in an argument... lol... Man I have never met u but I honestly think with a head as big as urs, with all that hot air, it must be one hell of a trick with U sticking your head up your ass. And from what I am reading uve got it mastered...

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Don't trust them

by Hitler Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 9:10 PM
@toast-them.com 202-2334567 231 grove street

I read something on Zionism and their history. God, the Jews have got to be the biggest criminals, traitors, two face and hypocrites on earth. There are overwhelming evidence in that article in such detailed that they were behind both WorldWars, and since I didn't finish yet and will soon continue, I'm getting to the part where its going to lay out again overwhelming evidence that they were also behind the September 11 attack which has now brought us to war in Iraq.

I always thought that they were foul. If you read this article you'd be shock as I am and there's even a paragraph, a short one at that, that will convince you that Hitler was not all the world made him out to be.

Anti- Semitic my ass, thats what they always cry when you try to prove their dirty little background.

I personally never liked them, I onced quit a job because i found out the whole place was resided by them. I hate the way they're treating the Palestinians and I surely wouldn't fight that bullshit war in Iraq because I know dam well it was masterminded by those Israeli Spies Wolfowitz, Perle, Ari Fleischer and others in the Bush government. Poor Bush he is stupid, he isn't really running the show, its those Jew thugs

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spy

by steve Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 9:14 PM

Glad to see you are still alive, Bush can come for you next! Then the rest of us can and will party!

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anti semetic

by Scottie Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 9:27 PM

Anti-semetic means being against jews.

Possible evidence of anti sematism.

A) someone who says THE JEWS (as opposed to a specific israeli government) did bad thing X therefore we must do Y

B) someone who draws a connection between a person and israel and then them and the USA and then assumes that it must be a bad relationship

anti sematism is a branch of racism - and you dont have to put them in gas chambers to be guilty of it. most of the germans in germany who were anti semetic never actually put a jew in a gas chamber there are always other minority groups out there that are willing to do that for you. Hamas for example

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lEFT

by Scottie Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 9:32 PM

Indymedia is also in on this war of words. the jews use antisematism as their stick to beat people (basically it jsut means "you hate me irationally")

and people here on indymedia use zionism as a stick to beat the jews as in "you want to establish a state (irrationally)... bad bad people!"

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I hate Sandniggers!

by Scottie Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 9:34 PM

I just can't wait until Israel wipes those Palestinians off the face of the Earth!

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biased or namecalling

by Carl Wolfstein Wednesday, Apr. 16, 2003 at 9:25 AM

Please define Bias? I simply failed to understand the meaning of antisemitic. I see Arabs and Jews are being the family of Semites, their ancestors descended from Sem. However, I see name-calling and not rebuttals with facts. Nevertheless is factual exposition of facts antisemitic if they happen to paint Israel in a negative light ? Then if telling a untrue tales that paint Israel in a positive light be pro-semitic? However one is telling a matter not factual. Is it right, just not to be antisemitic? I ask this question, was Richard Perle passing classified info to Israel? And is this treason to the USA? Yes or No May be he was being pro-semitic but was stealing information to a foreign government it is immoral. Please comment... Carl W

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ariparrot

by terrist Wednesday, Apr. 16, 2003 at 10:42 AM

ariparrot...
ariparrot.jpg, image/jpeg, 300x420

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tax jewish noses

by Omar Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 2:45 PM

why didnt hitler finish the job, eh scottie?

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Omar

by Scottie Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 5:28 PM

You dont jsut kill 10 million odd people in 5 minutes.. Well at least not when hitler was around.

What are you trying to suggest with that question?

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Scottie

by Eric Friday, May. 02, 2003 at 7:19 PM

Shove it up your ass.

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Scottie

by Omar Tuesday, May. 06, 2003 at 3:11 PM

How long does it take to kill 10 million people scottie? Why dont u ask ur buddies in Israel? Im sure, with all their experience they will have a pretty good idea ;) What am I trying to say with that question? Im trying to say ur an idiot.

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Omar

by Scottie Tuesday, May. 06, 2003 at 9:56 PM

Well who is your hero? Stalin? how long did it take for him to kill 10 million people? a year or two? Still even he couldnt do it in five minutes.

There is no point asking the israelis because the Israelis cant be very good because at the rate they are going ot will take tends of thousands of years to kill 10 million (if the palistinians keep up their interfada that long).

Your answer has no point and draws a analogy that makes no sense.

In 2000 there were over 15000 murders in the USA

At this rate US will kill 10 million of its own people in a few hundred years. So I expect you can find a better answer from one of your own friends.

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Scottie

by Eric Tuesday, May. 06, 2003 at 10:45 PM

Shove it up your ass.

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Scottie

by Omar Wednesday, May. 07, 2003 at 12:58 AM

calling u an idiot is an insult to stupid people. Your a buffoon... ur worse... ur almost human... your conversational skills and intellectual ability would embaress a five year old. I think your ass still needs to catch up with evolution. You fucking buffoon, Stalin is not my hero hes YOUR hero. Wipe out the palestinians??? the only reason the israelis cant do it is because the only way of wiping them out en mass would mean using weapons of mass destruction, which would harm their own big noses. Short of that they have done everything u fucking idiot. Now go snort some of that cocaine and leave the intellectual stuff to other people. oh yeah and shove it up your ass...

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omar

by daveman Wednesday, May. 07, 2003 at 2:31 AM

You need Anger Management classes...

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daveman

by Scottie Wednesday, May. 07, 2003 at 10:29 PM

You need to blow me...

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Hysterics

by Scottie Thursday, May. 08, 2003 at 12:34 AM

[your bout of hysterics has been edited]

"Wipe out the palestinians??? the only reason the israelis cant do it is because the only way of wiping them out en mass would mean using weapons of mass destruction, which would harm their own big noses."

- Gas and some bio weapons are localized weapons you can gas a town and the town next door will be ok.. That is why people like sadam can do it..

the kill zone for most individual WMD, while quite large relitive to normal weapons, is only a small area compared to the size of a country.

"Short of that they have done everything"

- they havent used suicide bombers.

"Now go snort some of that cocaine and leave the intellectual stuff to other people. oh yeah and shove it up your ass..."

- talk about intelectual stuff.. I am sooo impressed...

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Scottie the hypocrite

by Ted Thursday, May. 08, 2003 at 12:37 AM

"You need to blow me."

Now, that's REAL intellectual stuff. I am sooo impressed. NOT.

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Sccottie

by daveman Thursday, May. 08, 2003 at 1:44 AM

Blow what? It's too small!!

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I am a man, damnit

by Scottie Thursday, May. 08, 2003 at 4:56 PM

I'm every bit the man you are, even if my erect penis only measures 1".

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Scottie

by d.m. Friday, May. 09, 2003 at 1:06 AM

How do you know I'm a man?

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Ted

by Scottie Friday, May. 09, 2003 at 5:56 AM

Did you really think that I said that?

That was "the new X" (or possibly someone coppying him) faking my name.

I thought that everyone was able to tell the difference between that person and daveman, me and the other people that he copies.

If I have to repeat myself.. you can tell his posts by the fact that he tends to write somthing off topic insulting someone I would not insult and usually only about one like (he needs to save his time to post all his other fake posts)

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Scottie

by Ted Friday, May. 09, 2003 at 10:27 AM

You aren't fooling anyone but yourself.

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New X

by Ted Saturday, May. 10, 2003 at 5:14 PM

blow me you faker.

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Ted

by Scottie Saturday, May. 10, 2003 at 5:16 PM

Blow ME, you head queen.

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Scottie

by The New X Sunday, May. 11, 2003 at 6:05 AM

Can I have some of that action?

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The New X

by Scottie Thursday, May. 15, 2003 at 3:55 PM

Sure, as long as you're a KOBE member.

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Scottie

by The New X Friday, May. 16, 2003 at 11:27 PM

I sure am.

I hope my comunist buddies not gang rape me for that...

I prefer it one at a time.

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Scottie and Daveman sitting on a tree... K.I.S.S.I.N.G

by Omar Monday, May. 19, 2003 at 12:57 AM

What was the topic again?

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Sorry, Omar...

by daveman Monday, May. 19, 2003 at 9:55 AM

...you've been bamboozled.

This is my first post in this thread.

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Dear Dave

by Omar Monday, May. 19, 2003 at 10:12 PM

Man has it occured to u that there could be another daveman.... hmmmmmmmm?

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Dear Omar

by daveman Monday, May. 19, 2003 at 10:13 PM

Given the annoying habit of some IndyMedia yo-yos of posting under other peoples' names, no, I doubt there's another daveman.

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davemoron

by Dr. Sigmund Fruit Tuesday, May. 20, 2003 at 1:58 PM

Oh no! The "fake guy" is hiding in daveman's closet!

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Dave

by Omar Tuesday, May. 20, 2003 at 2:50 PM

You have to be the stupidest jew alive today

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I'm not a Jew...

by daveman Tuesday, May. 20, 2003 at 3:24 PM

...but I AM stupid.

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Omar

by Scottie Tuesday, May. 20, 2003 at 9:21 PM

What is this facination of yours with homosexuality?

you should ask your local freudian psycologist

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No, I'm not a Jew...

by daveman Tuesday, May. 20, 2003 at 9:26 PM

...nor am I stupid.

For instance, I can spot a Jew-hater when I see one.

*coughOMARcough*

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I support you, daveman

by KOBE SBM Wednesday, May. 21, 2003 at 10:28 AM
kobehq@yahoo.com

I can spot a Muslim-hater when I see one.

*coughDAVEMANcough*

www.kobehq.com

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thought u would be used to it...

by OMAR Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 5:30 AM

Choke on my nuts daveman

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Omar

by daveman Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 10:08 AM

What, no denial of being a Jew-hater?

Hmmm...

And it's interesting you use "jew" as an insult.

More proof of your Jew-hatred.

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There is more to the world than Jew hatred.

by Binky Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 10:21 AM

Isn't it interesting how every political issue, in the eyes of the Zionist, comes down to whether someone likes Jews or hate Jews. Given that African Americans, Latinos, and countless other groups suffer far more racism than Jews within the US, why is it that Jews consider the issue of "Jew Hatred" to be the fundamental issue of importance. It is obvious that many Jews do not like Catholics or Muslims. Visiting the KOBE website or the JDL provides ample evidence of this claim. I have had many conversations with Jews were Jews openly state that they hate Arabs and Muslims. Jewish producers in Hollywood regularly defame and libel the Catholic Church and Catholics. Jewish producers in Hollywood regularly depict Latinos as drug dealers but never expose the drug dealing (visa vi Extacy) gangs of Israelis operating in the US. If there was some objective means of measuring the hate within Jewish culture towards non-jews and measuring the hate in non-Jewish culture towards Jews, I believe that we would find that Jews are more likely to hate non-Jews than non-Jews are likely to hate Jews.

The fact that Zionists see the world in terms of a dichotomy between Jews and Non-Jews is enough to set up the red flags.

The issue of anti-Semitism in the US no longer deserves as much attention as it receives. There is no grand conspiracy against Jews. The fact that Jews are, on the average, doing very well in the US, is all of the proof you need. There is an active process to keep African Americans and Latinos down. Until that is addressed, I find the Zionist cries of "Jew Hatred" to be nothing more than an attempt to draw attention to a privilaged class of people that need our help much less than Latinos and Blacks need our help.

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Binky

by daveman Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 11:19 AM

"...drug dealing (visa vi Extacy) gangs of Israelis operating in the US."

Got proof?

Additionally do you have any proof of the other instances of Jewish hatred for non-Jews?

I can understand an animosity towards Arabs and Muslims. After all, the Quran calls for the destruction of Jews. I think that if Jews don't just roll over and accept that it's pretty understandable by anyone with two neurons to rub together.

"There is no grand conspiracy against Jews."

Not in the US, certainly. The Middle East, however...this is where anti-Jew conspiracy is local government and religious policy.

I would like to point out that there is no grand conspiracy BY Jews, either, but that goes against the la-imc party line and is therefore unacceptable. Oh, well.

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Proof for Daveman

by Binky Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 11:50 AM

"Most of the labs are believed to be run by Dutch organized-crime groups, but the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration says much of the trafficking is controlled by Israeli crime syndicates. Also reportedly involved are Russian, Yugoslav, Dominican, and Dutch drug groups."

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Bush Admirer, do you hate Nazis?

by Binky Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 11:52 AM

if you hate Nazis, does that make you a "German-Hater?"

I hate Nazis, does that make me a "German-Hater" or just an anti-Fascist? Since Zionists are fascists, as I an anti-Fascist I must hate Zionists. This has nothing to do with Jews.

However, I have encountered a very large number of Jews in my life that openly hate Arabs and Muslims. Why don't you address that fact?

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Well said

by Omar Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 6:11 PM

Binky, your addition to this website is the best intellectual reading I have had in these pages. Daveman I dont confess to hating the jews and to loving them. As individuals some of the best people I have met are of jewish origin but when it comes to them collectively they can be quiet malicious. Coming back to YOU the only sign ull get from me is the middle finger. Spin on it. No denial of being a jew hater???? what on God's earth makes a faggot like u think that I need to deny or confirm anything to you, U ass stuffing sausage jockey. *coughMYNUTScough*

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Daveman U motherfucker

by Omar Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 6:15 PM

Fucking faggot,

where does the Quran call for the destruction of the jews? Its motherfuckers like u that misquote the quran and muslims and mislead people. Come on clever boy, lets hear ur sources?

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well omar

by fresca Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 8:08 PM

There are these gems

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216

(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:

Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4

(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)



But, you know, other than that....

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Well, if Fresca wants to inspect religion...

by @ Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 8:51 PM

Let us consider how the God of the Jews is documented in the Torah and in the Old Testiment to be exactly like a Mafia god father, playing a scam against the Egyptians and intentionally causing the Pharaoh to resist God's will.

When God sent Moshe before that Pharaoh, he declared to Moshe that he would "harden the Pharaoh's heart," guarenteeing that the Pharaoh would resist Moshe's demands. Specifically, God forced the Pharaoh to say no to Moshe. The price the Egyptians paid was the murder of the first born of every Egyptian family (clearly an act of genocide). Thus, the God of the Jews designed a game in which the Egyptians could not win and in which innocent children would be killed.

To this day, Jews the world over celebrate the murder of the first born of all Egyptians and call it Passover. If that is not a resentful and crass outlook on the world, I don't know what else possibly could.

Backup for these claims can be found here:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/hardened.html

Ex.4:21

And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Ex.7:3

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Ex.7:13

And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Ex.9:12

And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

Ex.10:1

And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

Ex.10:20

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

Ex.10:27

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.

Ex.11:10

And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.

Ex.14:4

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD.

Ex.14:8

And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel

Ex.14:17

I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour.

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The Jealous God of Christians and Jews

by @ Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 9:02 PM

If I told you Frank was a jealous man, you would consider this to be a negative statement about Frank. Anyone that is jealous is not only far from perfect, but likely to be petty. Yet, the God of the Christians and the God of the Jews has declared himself, many times, to be a jealous God. Since we're playing the "pissing contest between Gods", please address how it is that you worship such a defective and petty entity as your God?

"Ex 20:5 ....................a jealous God.. punishing those who hate him

Ex 34:14 ..................Name is Jealous (34:5-14 context ... note that verse 14 is asummary statement for other attributes)

Num 25:11 ................ God is zealous for His honor

Deut 4:24 .................. a consuming fire, a jealous God

Duet 32:16-21 .......... made jealous by worship of foreign gods

Josh 24:19 ................ He is a Holy and jealous God

I Kings 14:22 ............ jealous anger stirred up by evil

Ezek 16:38-42 ........... jealous anger deployed

Ezek 23:25 ................. jealous anger directed at Israel

Joel 2:18 .................... jealous for His land

Nahum 1:2 ................. jealous and avenging God

2 Cor 11:2 .................. a Godly jealousy of one promised to Christ

"

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Thank God I'm an Atheist.

by @ Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 9:05 PM

Next thing you know, Fresca will be comparing the length of God's penis to that of Allah's.

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News flash for @

by Bush Admirer Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 10:24 PM

Here's the real deal @

There is no God and there is no Allah.

Religion is all bullshit.

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Finally, Bush Admirer and I agree on something.

by @ Sunday, Jun. 08, 2003 at 10:43 PM

Yes, I do believe religion is bull shit. However, I also believe that others can choose to believe in whatever bull shit they wish too. I don't find one bull shit anymore sweet smelling than another. Stop judging others for the bull shit they were born into.

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Commentary

by daveman Monday, Jun. 09, 2003 at 10:03 AM

@, Passover does not celebrate the death of the Eguptian first born...it celebrates the fact that the Hebrew households were PASSED OVER...hence the name. Duh.

Omar, no, you don't have to prove anything to me. I'll just continue to know that you hate Jews. Oh, I must decline your offer of homosexual activity...but thanks for the offer. However, I'm very hetero and very monogamous. Perhaps you ought to try it.

Fresca, thanks for the Koran verses. My 'net time is limited lately.

Binky, do you have a credible source for that information? Info from a bunch of reefer heads is kinda suspect to me.

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I see no difference.

by @ Monday, Jun. 09, 2003 at 10:48 AM

If you celebrate the cup being half full or half empty, you celebrate the same state of the cup.

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I don't see the cup being...

by daveman Monday, Jun. 09, 2003 at 11:45 AM

...half full or half empty.

I see it being twice as big as it needs to be.

You have an interesting take on holidays, though. I suppose you think Christmas celbrates all the people who weren't born on the day Christ was? Or Thanksgiving celebrates all the reasons for not giving thanks? Or Veteran's Day honors all the people who didn't serve their country? Or Arbor Day celebrates clearcutting?

Must be weird around your house during the holidays.

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Dear Fresca

by Omar Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 2:43 AM

You have taken the Koran so wonderfully out of conext. All of the sources that U are claiming need to be looked into detail and as part of a whole to understand what they mean. If U take a sentence such as an "eye for an eye and a tooth for tooth" which is from the bible and translate that as the bible says it is ok to break someones eyes and teeth then U would be telling only half the truth which is a lie

To comeback to the gems that U are quoting, and they are gems (if u have tranlated them correctly from the Koran) what the reader needs to realise is that the Koran was sent to the muslims over an extended period of time 1400 years ago when they were PERSECUTED very maliciously by the jews, christians and idol worshippers. These verses were sent to the muslims so that would know how to protect themselves against people who were PERSECUTING AND KILLING them.

For U to correclty quote the koran PRINT THE WHOLE paragraph so that we know what comes before and after what U have quoted (look at the example about the bible before)

If U are looking for quotes from the Koran perhaps these will better show U how tolerant Islam is

"verily, they who believe (muslims) and they who follow the jewish religion and the christians, and the sabeites- whoever of these believeth in God and the last day, and doeth that which is right, shall have their reward with their Lord: fear shall not come upon them, neither shall they be grieved"



If we are talking about religious intolerance we only need to look aththe crusades as clear examples of christian tolerance where the targets were unarmed mena nd women in Jerusalem and countless jews.

For Jewish tolerance we only need to see present day Israel



A lot of the quotes that U have taken from the Koran are very irrelevant to what I had said earlier. Perhaps Ur trying to be clever? try a little harder.

P.S daveman your just an idiot and certainly not worth my time

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Thanks Omar.

by @ Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 3:13 AM

I've read the Bible and the Koran. I am an atheist, so I think I am an impartial reader. I was impressed by the kindness of Allah as presented in the Koran. I'd also like to point out that you are correct, historical context is essential in understanding any text.

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Omar

by daveman Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 8:36 AM

It doesn't matter how I interpret or misinterpret the Koran. My opinions of people will not be swayed by their religious texts. The Muslims I've met have been, without exception, warm, caring, friendly people, very family-oriented, with a deep and rightly-deserved sense of honor and history.

The people whose interpretations do matter, though, are the kind who would use the Koran to justify their killing of infidels in general and Jews in particular. Any killing in the name of any God is abhorrent to me; the God I worship does not condone such behaviour. The punishment of non-believers is God's province, not man's. Unfortunately, not everyone believes this...or the world would be much more peaceful.

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More inaccurate history by Bush Admirer

by @ Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 11:00 AM

"The Moors persecuted the Christians and ruled Spain with an iron hand. When they were finally forced out of Spain, the Christians decided not to tear down the huge and important Mosque. Instead they built a Christian church right in the middle of it. They so hated the Muslims that they preferred to desecrate the Mosque."

This is untrue. The Christians of Andalusia lived in much better conditions than the Christians of other parts of Europe at that time. While the Moors occupied Southern Spain, the dark ages had set upon the rest of Europe. Southern Spain became one of the few parts of Europe that florished. The Moor occupation of Southern Spain introduced many advancements in mathematics discovered by the Arabs at earlier times. In addition to scientific and mathematical advancement brought by the Arabs to Europe, Southern Spain, through the Moores, introduced the tradition of romantic poetry that later spread to other parts of Europe. Have preserved the writings of Socrates and other Greek philosophers, the Moors reintroduced to Europe these works which later played a role in the enlightenment of Europe and a break from the oppression of the Catholic Church.

While I am sure that Spaniards did not like being occupied by a foreign power, it is clear that the Moors were not racist like the Israelis and sought to integrate Spaniards into their culture rather than destroy them.

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wht's all this...

by fuck bush admirer Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 12:52 PM

...got to do with perle being a traitor/israeli spy? tht is the issue at issue.

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The beauty of tolerance...

by Omar Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 1:29 PM

Let me start by saying that Im in shock. Daveman actually said something good about muslim people. Usually when people post their messages due to, ignorance, lack of time, self defence or impatience people will say things that can be taken as intolerant by other people. Most of the people who have posted messages on this thing seem to be intelligent people and I am sure if we discussed these topics face to face reasoning would prevail.

We all believe in the same God (muslims, christians and jews). Dont U think that a God that can be so kind to us will ever command us to do wrong to others (do not confuse with self defence; that is legal in any sense) Amazing that we are all arguing and cursing each other as if God is the monopoly of one and not the other. God is there for the whole of humanity. He is everyones God.

God commands all muslims that your religion is for U to practice and the religion of others is theirs to practice (except for idol worship whih is abhorrent to God). My religion for me, your religion for U.

Islam has guaranteed rights to minorities for the last 1400 years. Cardoba in Spain was the finest city in Europe when the moors ruled Spain. It was the beacon of technology, education and religious tolerance. The rest of Europe was caught in the dark ages; a term fashioned by historians during the rennaisance period The seeds of the rennaisance were planted a few hundred years ago in BAGHDAD before the birth of Leonardo Di Vinci.

The moors were intolerant???? What are ur sources Bush Admirer.

The prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) once said that an uneducated man can never be a muslim. I so agree because education is supposed to open the mind. The opposite of being educated is being ignorant, not knowing. Dont let ignorance be the stick by which U judge ur muslim neighbors

May Allahs Blessing be on U all and may He guide us all to do what is right

Peace be upon U all

Omar

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that is....

by Omar Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 3:29 PM

if that was the real Daveman :D

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sure

by fresca Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 3:39 PM

"Islam has guaranteed rights to minorities for the last 1400 years. "

ask any homosexual in Saudi Arabia. They simply love to tell all about the guaranteed rights they have lavished on them.

Or the fine "guaranteed free" slaves of the Sudan.

The women under the Taliban were also fairly drunk with all the guaranteed freedom that they had bestowed upon them.

You're absolutely right, freedom and tolerance is definetly the order of the day in strict Islamic societies. That's why they have all advanced so far and so prosperously.

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fresca fuck off

by fresca fuck off Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 4:51 PM

what's,once more,all your drivel got to do with perle the israeli spy and the rest of them nazionists in the gov?

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nothing jackass

by fresca Tuesday, Jun. 10, 2003 at 6:25 PM

"what's,once more,all your drivel got to do with perle the israeli spy and the rest of them nazionists in the gov?"

And neither do most of the other posts on this thread because it's a ridiculous assertion and has been roundly ignored even by your own flock of mindless shills.

So get your head outa your ass. Read ALL the posts and stop wearing your challenged intellect on your sleeve.

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Fresca Fresca Fresca....

by Omar Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 12:18 AM

You can take an ass to the water but U cant make it drink. For ur ignorant ass please let me explain that there is a difference in the teachings of Islam AND MUSLIMS WHO CARRY OUT ATROCIOUS ACTS. There are 15 murders in the US every second. Im not calling every american a murderer am I. try and understand the difference. If a muslim does something wrong it does not mean that the religion is wrong that individual is wrong.

As for homosexuality it is something that is against Islam and agains the law. There are others things that are against the law as well. like pre-marital sex. Sitting on your fat ass on a couch in your trailer u will never understand unless u try to understand.

We have our own laws and we are very proud of them. We dont have homosexuality and we dont have pre marital sex thats why the family as a unit is strong. Because of these laws Islamic countries have the lowest rate of STDs and AIDS, crime is amongst the lowest in the world and so on and so forth.

The taliban were an exception thats why the muslim world supported the attack on them. Pakistan was used for bases and diplomatic ties were broken by every muslim country once 9-11 took place/

How convenient for U that when u compare the muslim world U compare it with the the industrialized countries of the West. Try comparing them to christian countries in Africa where huge human rights infringements are taking place.

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You need to go make a tent or sometning...

by Ignatius Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 12:32 AM

Jeez, did you just compare the U.S. and the West in general to African countries, be they Christian, Muslim, or Crustacean? Don't be more of an idiot than you can help. We all may as well be in different galaxies for all we have to do with one another.

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Unbelievable

by fresca Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 4:00 AM

Let me just paste a tidbit from some of Omar's explanation of the wonderful world of Islamic law and satehood...

"If a muslim does something wrong it does not mean that the religion is wrong that individual is wrong.

As for homosexuality it is something that is against Islam and agains the law. There are others things that are against the law as well. like pre-marital sex. Sitting on your fat ass on a couch in your trailer u will never understand unless u try to understand.

"



I don't even know what to say anymore.

I guess you're right Omar, Islam as a blueprint for a society is beyond reproach.

That's why Islamic states are soooo advanced.

My apologies.

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Why are Americans so fucking stupid....

by Omar Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 12:19 PM

Dear Fools,

let me start with Ignatius. Please read the whole argument, try and understand it and then paste ur comment. It is obvious that U havent read the comments made by Fresca that I was replying to, maybe then U would understand the point I was making. If U cant understand it go to MTV.com. they have a chat site that will be more up to ur intellectual level. go make a tent??? if Fresca's to be believed U should go take it up the ass.

My dear fresca. What am I going to do with ur trailer park ass. I dont know if U have airconditioning in your trailer but if U do turn up the power so that ur brain cell doesnt succumb to all this "thinking" that ur doing. Most of Western Europe is atheist so please do not count them as christians. I know I have lived there. Do U know anything about anything. I bet U cant even name 5 islamic countries and U ARE A FUCKING EXPERT on Islam and our society. I bet U havent been out of Kentucky or Missouri or whichever little hick town ur from and U know about how advanced Islamic Societies are? Do u even have a GED? Woman if U have all this agression cuz some man dumped u or cheated on you or treats u like shit know that there are real men out there who are treating their women with a lot more respect than U have probably ever gotten. Dont be so angry. theres probably a cure for ur disease. Pity ull probably have to work 3 jobs and sell ur trailer park to afford it.

The Koran states "verily for the intelligent there are signs" and for those that Allah almighty wishes to misguide "it is like a veil before their eyes" so that they cannot see right from wrong. The bible says the same thing. which one are U fresca?

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there is a reason why no one can stand u people

by Omar Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 12:34 PM

its cuz ur all so ignorant and so arrogant. Can there be a worse combination. How can u get it into some dim wits thick skull that he/she is stupid and they are wrong.... look at where u people get ur information from.... a biased fucking media. I wonder how many of U have read books that offer a NEUTRAL point of view, or in Fresca's case do u know what a book is?

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Omar

by fresca Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 12:46 PM

You're simply an idiot who seems to know even less about Islam as a culture then any of the trailer park denizens which you so often seem to refer to.

Now I understand you're just some kid going through growing pains and not all that bright, but you'll excuse me if I say that I'm not al that swayed by your feeble attempts to explain and glorify your "religion".

You need to do ALOT of research and some actual thinking before tackling a subject like this. In the meantime just try and refrain from murdering any gays or women and thus propelling yourself even further back down the evolutionary ladder than you currently find yourself.

I believe Thomas Friedman said it best..

"As the rest of the world was making microchips, the arab world was beginning to make potato chips"

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tch tch tch Fresca

by Omar Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 2:11 PM

Oh my God. Can U believe this woman? im a muslim, i follow my religion I have visited a lot of these countries and this COW knows more about my culture, my way of life and my religion than me. DO U SEE WHY I SAY YOUR STUPID.

One journalist from the New York Times, although he is a lot more balanced than most reporters is hardly an expert on Islamic society. And if U have read what he writes about u might try understanding some of the stuff he says.

pls also site ur source when u quote him cuz the last thing I wanna do is take some trailer park trash's word for anything

If Ur looking for quotes try these on for size

Patriotism is the last refuge of SCOUNDRELS: Samuel Johnson

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

Albert Einstein

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism -- how passionately I hate them!

Albert Einstein

A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.

William James (1842-1910)

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right

Thomas Paine - Common Sense

Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot.

Anonymous

Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed. (this one reminded me of U)

Mark Twain (1835-1910)

America is the only nation in history which miraculously has gone directly from barbarism to degeneration without the usual intervention of civilization.

George Clemenceau

Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half.

Gore Vidal

I do not know the American gentleman, God forgive me for putting two such words together.

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)

The constitution gives every American the inalienable right to make a damn fool of himself.

John Ciardi

The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.

Rita Mae Brown

What the American public doesn't know is exactly what makes them the American public.

Dan Akroyd

chew on these

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:D

by Omar Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 3:16 PM

BIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATCH!!!!!!!!!!

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Ignatius

by Katalyst Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 3:38 PM

I used to dream

by Ignatius • Tuesday June 10, 2003 11:29 AM



I used to dream of tasting Tupac's semen. That dream died when he was murdered.

Please discuss your sick "dreams" elsewhere.

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well,...

by fresca Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 5:26 PM

"Oh my God. Can U believe this woman? im a muslim, i follow my religion I have visited a lot of these countries and this COW knows more about my culture, my way of life and my religion than me. "

...if the shoe fits....

BTW, I don't claim to be an expert on Islam, but I can certainly see it's glaring faults as a basis for societal law.

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I just came down with monkey pox.

by fresca Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 5:30 PM

I need to stop opening up to whatever prarie dog comes by.

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Omar

by daveman Wednesday, Jun. 11, 2003 at 8:22 PM

Perhaps you'll believe the words of the imams, Islamic scholars whose job is to interpret the Koran.

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=17183

"O God, strengthen Islam and Muslims,

humiliate infidelity and infidels, and destroy Islam's enemies, including

the vile Jews." He also asks God to protect the country of the custodian of

the two holy mosques and "to help the Palestinian brothers defeat the

usurper Jews, to shake the ground under them, to instill fear into their

hearts, and to make them prey for Muslims."

And something that scares the heck out of me and any sane human:

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP5999

[The Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Dr. Muhammad Sayyed Al-] Tantawi [the highest-ranking religious official in Egypt and one of the most prominent leaders in the Muslim world] continued, "The instruction that our master Khalifa [Caliph] Abu Bakr [the first successor to the Prophet] to Khaled Ibn Al-Waleed [one of the first Muslim commanders] when he called upon him to fight the enemy was: 'if they fight you with a sword fight them with a sword; if they fight you with a spear fight them with a spear.’ If Abu Bakr had lived today he would have said, 'if they fight you with an atomic bomb you must fight them with an atomic bomb.’"

Now, Omar, can you see why so many non-Muslims have a problem? Hatred is being preached from the mosques. Hatred and death.

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What about you Dad?

by Sy$teMF@iLuRe Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 7:32 AM

Does Jerry Falwell and Pat Roberts or Jimmy Swaggart speak for all Christians of America?

Do the Christian extremists that blow up abortion clinics and hate homosexuals speak for all christians of America?

I'm sure people could find things that these guys said to be inflammatory......does this mean that all christians are extremists?

Can we find exerpts in the Bible to be inflammatory if taken out of context?

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No, they don't.

by daveman Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 7:50 AM

But most imams are appointed by their governments, are they not?

That would lend an air of "officialness" to their hatred, would it not?

"...destroy...the vile Jews" is pretty inflammatory...and you don't have to look hard to find numerous examples of this.

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That would depend.

by systemfailure Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 7:57 AM

Most religious leaders of Mosques are appointed by thier government.

Depends on what country you are referring to.

I think when Jerry Falwell says that all homosexuals are going to burn in Hell is pretty inflammatory.

I think when the church of the world creator advocates the killing of jews and blacks is pretty inflammatory.

Do they speak for all of us?

No.

The "officialness" is all in your mind/

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Interesting dichotomy.

by daveman Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 8:06 AM

1. I disagree with most positions put forth on la-imc. Therefore I am paid by the government to do so.

2. An imam appointed by his government preaches hate. Therefore, it is his own personal opinion.

You can't have it both ways.

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????????????????????????????????????

by systemfailure Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 8:21 AM

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????

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Just plain wrong

by fresca Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 11:24 AM

"Most religious leaders of Mosques are appointed by thier government.

Depends on what country you are referring to.

I think when Jerry Falwell says that all homosexuals are going to burn in Hell is pretty inflammatory.

I think when the church of the world creator advocates the killing of jews and blacks is pretty inflammatory.

Do they speak for all of us?

No.

The "officialness" is all in your mind/"

In Islamic states, these are most assuredly "official" legislature.

I can't seem to recall Falwell executing any gays.

You can codemn certain individuals from all other religions for heinous behavior (and you should) but Islam is the only religion today that is actively used as a model for state law.

It's obviously not all bad nut there are a few key points which renders it rather useless, I think, for running a country or society. Official hatred of ANY group is one of them.

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look at your sources.....

by Omar Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 12:09 PM

The website u have printed links to states that it the so called IMRA (Independent Media Review Analysis) has been "Awarded credentials by the Government of Israel as a news organization". Which Israel? The same Israel that soooooooooo loves muslims. Open Ur eyes man. Just because something is called Independent doesnt make it independent or honest for that matter. get ur sources from a more balanced media. These are all bastards that try to lead people with innocent sounding names

Let me tell you an interesting fact about Islam. Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion. That Islam was spread by the sword is a JOKE. We are not using any swords today plus what a joke? Christians accusing mulims of spreading the religion with the sword? The pot calling the kettle black? How is it U people are so hypocritical? WHy is u people say one thing and practice another?

im afraid Im getting really bored with this subject because u people are not using logic. Why are u people concentrating on afghanistan when u look at muslim countries. WHy dont u look at countries like Turkey and Malaysia? Because its not convenient or because the only arguments u have stick with these countries

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Horse shit

by Omar Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 12:15 PM

which muslim countries are u talkng about? Now u people are experts on the governmental affairs of 50 different muslim countries. Mullahs are appointed by the governments. Please name all the countries that do that. Just to let u know there are thousands upo thousands of mosques in the every muslim country. YOu guys are taking pot shots in the dark and I am very sorry to tell u you people sound extremely idiotic to me. GO do some research before U open ur mouths. Its like the blind leading the blind. And look at different sources if u want a balanced view. Most of American media is trash. Go to the bbc or aussie channels or whatever but go to different sources. OPEN UR MINDS.

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i remember

by Omar Friday, Jun. 13, 2003 at 12:18 PM

reading or hearing somewhere that Jerry Fallwells mother made out with a horse in an outhouse

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