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LA Anti-War Protest: at least 20,000

by 000 Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 4:09 PM

At least 20,000 demonstrate in Los Angeles against the Bush Administration and their plans for war.

Los Angeles, Ca. January 11, 2003.

Probably the largest demonstration in Los Angeles since the Vietnam war era, thousands marched for peace and against the Bush Adminstration's policies of agression and war.

Estimates of the crowd vary, but it is clear that at least 20,000 people were present. Other estimates range as high as 40-50,000. The march was spirited and full of people of all ages and different political backgrounds. There were no reports of police violence against the crowd as of yet.

Speakers ranged from activists to actors with a message of peace and against war in Iraq. There was strong and vocal outrage against the Bush Administrations attack on civil liberties; from INS detainments, the PATRIOT Act, and FBI surviellance to the continued lies fed to the mainstream press by the US State Department and the erosion of a real discourse on the issues of war and imperialism.

With this many in the streets in Los Angeles prior to the start of a war, and the massive demonstrations expected next week in San Francisco and Washington D.C., the message is clear: if the Bush Adminstration starts a war with Iraq, hundreds of thousands of people will resist. The illegitimate president Bush can expect a nonstop antiwar movement against his administration.

000
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a great time!

by volunteer Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 5:32 PM

The demo was AWESOME! All the great energy, people, speakers, and organizations really made it happen. Big ups to all the people who got off their asses and joined the festivities. Everyone had fun, except the unlucky ones who were being called up by cel phone, from the marches, getting the real-time play by play.

Now more than ever, we need to rebuild the local indymedia network/s to organize against war.
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Report from the March

by p-b Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 5:42 PM

It was a gorgeous and perfect day for the march. Just cool enough to keep from getting hot and warm enough to march at your own pace.

Great signs everywhere! "The only Bush I trust is my own" "Behind every Bush is a Terrorist" "Peace is patriotic" "Dump Bush Not Bombs" And many many more. There were signs in Spanish, English, Arabic, Hebrew and Korean.

There were lots of people of every color, age, religion, education (go high school protest deed!) There were dogs for peace, bus riders for peace, electricians for peace, dancers for peace, and musicians for peace.

Babies in strollers, and toddlers holding parents hands, and little kids with homemade signs. Marchers came on foot, in wheelchairs, on bicycles and skateboards. Lots of folk said they took the new Rapid transit buses for the first tiem and said as this is a war about oil, they'd be taking the buses alot more often. A group who had come in from the valley had parked at the North Hollywood metro stop and taken the subway in.

One way to say NO to the madness of this war is to use the mass transit, and get rid of your gas guzzler. If you're driving an SUV or a tricked out heavy duty pick up, its time to get yourself a car that gets better mileage. Think of ot this way, every gallon of gas you save is a gallon taken away from George W. Bush and friends.

There were some amazing puppets and costumes! Loved George W. Bush and Cheney a la Dr. Strangelove on the missile covered with corporate logos. Accompanying the missile was a stunning Miss Statue of Liberty harlot draped in the American corporations logo flag. An incredible tank sculpture was made out of cardboard. There was a 20' missile balloon that makes you realise just how firghtening the real thing falling out of the sky is. Blue balloons of the planet with green continents floated above the heads of many.

But for all of the variety and diversity in the crowd, the overall message was clear.

NO WAR IN IRAQ
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LA TIMES MISCOUNTS

by peter jazwinski Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 5:55 PM

The LA TIMES can't even count. Here's what they said immediately after the demonstration. "Organizers put the turnout at 20,000. But police offered a much smaller estimate of 3,000. "

Why can't the LA TIMES just give an estimate instead of playing the 2 sides off each other? Did anyone from the Times even attend this rally? I walked the entire length of the march and there were 10s of thousands. I guess that's why nobody reads the Times anymore. Grow a spine.

This rally amazing in its size, its diverse ethnicity and its incredible sense of peace and understanding. There is hope.
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Peter

by Bush Admirer Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 6:32 PM

>>> The LA TIMES can't even count. Here's what they said immediately after the demonstration. "Organizers put the turnout at 20,000. But police offered a much smaller estimate of 3,000. "

Peter - it would seem to me that the Times is helping your cause. Fewer whackos is better than more whackos. It's going to be embarrassing regardless. But try to keep a low profile.

>>> This rally amazing in its size.

Whoa! That's really an embarrassment for the left.
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Mainstream Radio (980 AM) estimated between 20 - 30,000

by Hali Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 6:49 PM

On the way home, I heard a reporter for AM 980 estimate 20 to 30 thousand.
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LA Times

by p-b Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 6:50 PM

A senior editor of the LA Times was at the march but we'll probably have to wait till tomorrow's paper for articles.
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LAPD

by ok Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 6:58 PM

LAPD has just publicly embarassed itself with a such a ridiculously low number published in a major newspaper. There is NOOO way there were only 3,000 people there. It was more people than the Hollywood Bowl holds and that's over 15,000.

The LAPD probably reported a typo... that's what they'll be saying in the LA Times corrections columns two days from now. (If I were Bratton at the LAPD, I'd be thinking about firing the moron who submitted the estimates. They were WAY off.)

LAPD: if they can't guess simple crowd figures then its no wonder they're in such bad shape.
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Bush Worshiper

by x Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:02 PM

Hey, not bad Mr. B.A. You've come a long way from the October protests, when claimed everyone at the protests were "smelly hippies"

Now, you just stick to the standard line about "whackos"

These whackos are your neighbors, your countrymen. Today, the vast majority of Americans oppose a unilateral war. The vast majority of Americans believe Bush hasn't made the case, hasn't shown the evidence.

You're in the minority.

If anything, you're the whacko. But you're probably a paid agent of some sort -- hard to imagine why anyone would spend as much time as you do on these boards if they weren't getting paid. Whatever.
==========
============


"...72 percent of respondents, including 60 percent of Republicans, said the president has not provided enough evidence to justify starting a war with Iraq."

"If the United States should launch an attack, 68 percent of Americans want it to be only
with the support of the international community. Only 26 percent said they were willing
to support war if the United States acted alone."

source: http://dc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=43360&group=webcast
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could it be the first war prevented by peace movement

by x Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:08 PM

hey folks, you know, what with the U.K. now asking for more time to let inspectors do their thing and a possible war late in 2003, it's quite possible that the Peace movement might be able to prevent this war

Who knows what the U.K. message is about. It could just as easily be propaganda to keep Iraq off guard. But I kind of doubt it. It speaks volumes. Remember, Tony Poodle Blair was pounding the table only a few months ago, speaking before the U.K. parliament about the "dossier" they produced, proving Iraq was a serious threat. But what the major media seems remise to realize is that if the U.K. is now calling for more time for the inspectors to actually find something, it's a blatant admission by the U.K. government that the case laid out in the "dossier" is actually more hot air than facts.

The momentum is turning against these war mongering folks
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cont....

by x Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:13 PM

A few more thoughts.

My prediction: There will be over 500,000 protestors in DC next Saturday, and over 150,000 in San Francisco. There's going to be huge momentum in the aftermath.
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X

by Bush Admirer Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:24 PM

X...
hanoi_jane_-_target.jpgjfpmn0.jpg, image/jpeg, 553x675

>>> Hey, not bad Mr. B.A. You've come a long way from the October protests, when claimed everyone at the protests were "smelly hippies"

I don't think that's an exact quote X. I wasn't there. I didn't smell them. I wouldn't claim they smelled bad if I hadn't actually gotten a whif. Please produce the posting where I said that.

>>> Now, you just stick to the standard line about "whackos" These whackos are your neighbors, your countrymen. Today, the vast majority of Americans oppose a unilateral war. The vast majority of Americans believe Bush hasn't made the case, hasn't shown the evidence.

I don't support a unilateral war. I never did. Nor do I think Bush supports or has ever planned a war against Iraq. As I've posted here before, I think Bush is the master of brinksmanship. This is about getting Saddam to blink. The fact that the inspectors are back proves that Saddam is blinking.

>>> You're in the minority. If anything, you're the whacko. But you're probably a paid agent of some sort -- hard to imagine why anyone would spend as much time as you do on these boards if they weren't getting paid. Whatever.

That's funny. I don't spend much time on these boards. Just check a couple of them twice a day.

We've had draft dodgers and anti-war protestors for decades. They've never been popular.
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Ever declining

by JK Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:26 PM

Hmm, CNN.com cites the police estimate at "2000". Read their crummy article at http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/01/11/anti.war.rally/index.html
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Simple Truth

by George Thompson Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:39 PM

Mr. X.

What an approriate title. Sooner than you or your beloved "W" realize, you'll both be "X's"!

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numbers

by x Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:42 PM

put pressure on the LA Times.
put pressure on CNN

Some protestors in the big march in DC broke away and went straight to the Washington Post office building, demanding they cover the march with accuracy. That was partly why the Post came out and said there were 100,000 people (even though there were likely three times as many, it was a minor victory; the associated press had their heads so far up their ass they only reported 10,000 people, to which the much publicized NPR and NY Times stories of the same count (FAIR didn't report that the NYT and NPR simply did "rip and read" journalism).

And as for a response to Bush Worshiper.... Here you go: _____________________

There's nothing to say to you. We're not here to change your mind. We're here to speak to the millions of Americans that haven't made up their minds. Bush Worshiper types will become irrelevant
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to George Thompson

by x Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:45 PM

George, you got it wrong...

Bush Admirer posted that comment entitled "X" (the one with the picture of his bathroom at his office :-)
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Simple Truth

by George Thompson Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:51 PM

My mistake! You get the picture, though!
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Simple Truth

by George Thompson Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 7:56 PM

God, I must be tired after the rally! Poor choice of terms on my part stating "you get the picture". George Worhshipper is a dinasoaur. You said it best the first time!
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to George Thompson

by x Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 8:22 PM

no problemo :-)

--peace
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L.A. representing!

by kevski Sunday, Jan. 12, 2003 at 8:45 PM

I am so proud of my hometown of Los Angeles right now!
Finally we proved to the rest of the city and hopefully to the nation that we can mobilize (by foot) and make our voices heard peacefully.

The march was an amazing experience!


keep on keepin on

p e a c e

kevski
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Just imagine...

by cass71898 Monday, Jan. 13, 2003 at 2:29 PM

If this many people actually got out into the streets, imagine how many more feel the same way that we do. It felt so good to be out there yesterday, I brought my whole family, even my mother. The groundswell of energy was incredible, we need to keep this up.
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Stopping Action

by Bobby Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 1:31 PM

Why protest when we are at war already, sounds pretty dumb to me. Our men and woman across seas need our support here. We don't need to waste our time fighting something that is already happening. Its ridiculous, and very embarrassing to the rest of the nation....especially us that have loved ones fighting with great bravery and respect for our nation. our Freedom and the officials that run such a powerful country....you all need to focus your time somewhere else, somewhere where you will be doing something benefitual to our countrie and not hindering it......
We don't need anymore tree huggers!
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Dear Marchers

by Terry Brown Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 4:39 PM
idareyou@shaw.ca

Dear Marchers against the war in Iraq

I understand we have the right to free speech and assembly; I myself lost many of my own family who died so that we could have this right. We have for the last two-generation lived off the blood of our fore fathers. I hear your concerns for the innocent people that might die in the coming conflict. But in the same breath I wish that each one of you could have lived through the bombing of the Curds with chemical weapons that killed tens of thousands of woman and children, who did this deed, Sadam, for ten years and hundreds of thousands of life lost and families destroyed in Iran because of the war raged on them by who, Sadam. And have we forgotten of the rape and torture of the Kuwaiti people, or the picture and story’s of the Iraq soldiers smashing babies against the walls in the nurseries in Kuwait hospitals? Who ordered this butchery? Sadam

Did you know what happens to people in Iraq that would dare to march against these obscene acts? You would all be dead. Do you think that these soldiers go home to tell their families what great deeds that they did? So with that in mind and if these were your families and friends that were butchered, raped and shoot and smashed against walls, would you still march to save this butcher!

The thing that sadness me the most is how that Sadam by using the very tactics that our own government have used over the years to control the publics option on things that they feel are a threat to them self’s has now worked against them. Well I for one believe that this man, Sadam if not stopped now, will achieve even more danger to the world then you can ever imagine. He claims to be a Muslim, but from what I can understand of this man, his god is Stalin. He hates the free world for it endangers his very being, but has learned to use it to protect and support the very man that is bent on nothing short of its destruction.

So the next time you march, look at your children and your wife’s and daughters, as well as your neighbours. For if this man gets his way, you’ll never see them again!

I pray that I have not offended anybody but have made you think just a little deeper. Don’t get lost in the claim that this war is over oil, or against Muslims. True Muslims are not butchers!

Terry Brown.
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oh please

by f7i9 Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 4:47 PM

to Bobby -
you say: "Our men and woman across seas need our support here. We don't need to waste our time fighting something that is already happening. Its ridiculous, and very embarrassing to the rest of the nation....especially us that have loved ones fighting with great bravery and respect for our nation."

your family members who are in the US military would be a lot better off here at home.



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Think and Question

by Leticia Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 9:59 PM
aquasax65@yahoo.com

Terry:
This is totally understandable. I come from a country ruled by separation and dictatorship, and boy did we wish someone would liberate us!
But the thing is, that Bush and his government do not give a damn about liberation. If that would have been the case, the American people would have been for it. This war is one of principle only. The principle of expanding the "American empire", of getting to the goodies, of playing world police, of planting their seeds. If it would be for liberation, then why did the US keep the Cold War going for so long? Why wasn't the Berlin Wall torn down sooner with the help of the US, why wasn't Mao the mass murderer and rapist brought down, why didn't they help Tibet, why didn't they put an end to the slaughter in Kosovo? Believe me: this is a war for their own interests, to make them richer. Because it works like this: the rich get richer through war, the poor are f***ed, and gotta pay for it.
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Pssst, Morticia....

by MadMaxim Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 10:23 PM


Americans Express Strong Support for War:

60% Strongly approve

15% Approve - but not strongly

5% Dissaprove - but not strongly

15% Strongly disapprove

5% no opinion.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030321.asp
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Objection Your Honor - Irrelevant.

by Diogenes Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 10:30 PM

A majority of Germans supported Hitler. Does that mean the Holocaust was moral and honorable?
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Your Honor, the numbers are relevant...

by MadMaxim Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 10:42 PM

...because they directly refute an statement made by Morticia:

["If that would have been the case, the American people would have been for it."]


Overruled.
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Exception!

by Diogenes Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 10:46 PM

The referenced statistics have no actual bearing on the point of ethics under discussion; as such they have no substantive value and should be suppressed. The Jury should give them NO Weight Whatsoever in coming to a conclusion.
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And So we see...

by MadMaxim Saturday, Mar. 22, 2003 at 11:24 PM

...why Mr. Shakespeare suggested that all Lawyers be driven into the sea.

What’s next? Define “IS”? (Oh wait, that one’s been used)

Anyways:
Why don’t you ask the Iraqi soldiers I’m watching on cnn – who are, literally, dancing in the street, as they are surrendering (this is a bit bizarre…).if _they think the greater good IS being served?


(I know, I know, the Iraqi Information Minister says all news media are evil liars)


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Ms

by Susan Basko Sunday, Mar. 23, 2003 at 12:15 AM
suebasko@hotmail.com

Congratulations on all of you in Los Angeles who are protesting Iraq war. You should all register to vote, so that you can vote President Bush out in the next election. I am surprised at, nationally, how violent the police have been at the protests-- there are reports of people being hit with clubs!! And do not be surprised at the underestimation of the crowds by the media-- this has been going on forever! I cannot tell you how many times I have been at a protest with many thousands of people, to hear major media sources report there were a few hundred. And to organizers: You may be followed or threatened. It may become obvious your phone is tapped or your mail is slowed down. You may subtly lose jobs or opportunities. You may find your group infiltrated by someone who is spying on you for the government. You can expect this. Do not let it stop you. You are fighting for what is good! God loves you!
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That's encouraging

by Bud Friday, Mar. 28, 2003 at 10:07 PM
bud@telus.net Vancouver, Canada

So 50,000 genetic defectives got off their asses long enough to show the rest of us that the biggest threat
to freedom comes from within. But the good news is that 50,000 is only 3% of the population of LA. That leaves
97% of the pop. who haven't subscribed to the Whacko agenda.
Bud
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Goo News

by Bud Saturday, Mar. 29, 2003 at 9:18 AM
bud@telus.net

The good news is that I'm committed in a Canadian state mental ward. I'm only allowed out of my straightjacket long enough to type my asinine drivel.
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-->Susan Basco

by Bush Admirer Saturday, Mar. 29, 2003 at 9:23 AM

-->Susan Basco...
sharpton_btn.gifnspubj.gif, image/png, 247x239

That's a laugh Susan.

GWB's popularity is soaring.

What we need to do in the next election is get rid of losers like Tom Daschle who are opposing the tax cut.

Beside, who would the Democrats run? I think Sharpton is their strongest candidate.
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War Protestors don't forgot to close their bank accounts

by 1mercy2003 Sunday, Mar. 30, 2003 at 1:01 AM



War Protestors forgot to withdraw money from bank accounts!
If you have not remembered to withdraw your money from bank accounts as a war protest, do it now also cooperation enagements should be curtailed/boycott as well as notified them why. Those of the auto companies/gas producers are very important to discontinue. Stop using your creidt cards and halt any support of global cooporations.
--Cause work stoppage or any thing else you can think of to stop this travistry...

If you are among the millions who have tried to make a differance by summiting a report such as can be found @http://www.grid.unep.ch/activities/sustainable/tigris/marshlands/mesopotamia.pdf or signed a petition for the U.N. to lift its starvation santions against IraQ since the 1900's: You are well aware that it is Blair/Bush-United Nations who, against our protests, have been starving IraQ's children/citizens and has caused the deaths of 400,000 children under five years old, this year, as Blair admitted today on American television. One only has to surf the web to find hundreds of documents which support IraQ's past/present/future without the conflicts that have plagued this nation/Blair-Bush distortion of thier own acts of terror.
--The gall of the these men to be demanding, by their military attack upon this country, that the people of IraQ accept their food, [genticly altered/unfit for human consumtion which every other country offered it has refused], for oil under penalty of death, is insane. Bush/Blair actions are in the wake of world news reports yesterday of the bombing of civilian's at market's in IraQ, Blair/Bush should see how montorous their actions are.
--One only needs to investigate the areas north/south to see how everything from the water supplies
to ancient sites of IraQ are threatened as additionally detorating tactics are applied by Blair/Bush-U.N.
--Those of us who have also witnessed our loved ones suffering and starvations in the counties calling themselves a coilation know all to well how medical care/daily needs such as housing/food are withheld from the needy.
--The corporation responsible for these acts must be boycotted, and finanical engagement must be curtailed, your dollars must be withdrawn from banks world wide as some on this site have already stated...ACT TODAY!

Since Cheney/Bush companies will finacially benifit @http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PRT.jsp?articleid=6008
from this war: The truth is this food for oil has been turned down because those countries doing Iraq business pay for their oil with the Euro dollars... U.S. can not afford Euro dollars cause that would mean they would have to back our U.S. dollars with real american money.

Bush/Blair decided to do it with U.S./Iraq
lives!

Perhaps you don't realize people out here in the real world were sending help. U.S./U.N. sanctions prevented U.S. companies/private citizens any type of contact... It is against the law...

Bush has a surplus of geneticly altered food which no one wants or can consume, so U.S. is demanding that Iraq accept this unfit comodity in place of the Euros dollars Iraq has requested Iraq recieve for Iraq oil resoures.

Umm does that help clear it up for you?

Bush/Blair are bartering with bullets, global companies have crossed the line...

Bush refused to use Euros dollars even though there is no law against it, cause we don't have the U.S. dollars to back efforts. The global world banks have already beaten us in this war, our price is being paid in Iraq/American citizen lose of life.

All the countries sitting back watching this would love nothing better than to see us both beat each other to the death...
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Iraq War Protestors Close Bank Accounts

by 1mercy2003 Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:44 AM

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=125&row=1
on World Bank

http://www.afrocentricnews.com/html/food.htm
on genetic foods

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/harvest/
on genetic foods

http://www.biotech-info.net/PBS_HoF.html
on genetic foods
even britts won't let this food into their country...



You miss the POINT and your words are proof that you/U.S. action is placing money above life...
%52 of the world bank IS controled by U.S. treasury-
Protestors around the world are calling for and are choosing a boycott of U.S.--

YOUR words cut you to the QUICK

-- seen by...

Us all, who hear the echos of granddad's (Bush/Bayer) Hilter support, exile and DEATH...


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Bush Admirer's Words Cut them to Quick

by 1mercy2003 Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:54 AM

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=125&row=1
on World Bank

http://www.afrocentricnews.com/html/food.htm
on genetic foods

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/harvest/
on genetic foods

http://www.biotech-info.net/PBS_HoF.html
on genetic foods
even britts won't let this food into their country...



You miss the POINT and your words are proof that you/U.S. action is placing money above life...
Though %52 of the world bank IS controled by U.S. treasury-
Protestors around the world are calling for and choosing a boycott of U.S.--
Your words cut you to the QUICK

-- seen by...

ALL, who hear the echos of granddad's (Bush/Bayer) Hilter support, exile and DEATH...


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Bank accounts? Are you kiddin'?

by Bud Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 1:42 PM
bud@telus.net Vancouver Canada

You gotta' have a job to have a bank account. These protesting lunatics are a collection of welfare bums,
junkies, parolees, drunks, misfits, medicated mental cases, and malcontents who, because of thier flawed
genetics, wouldn't fit in any social structure.

Bud
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Bud

by Bush Admirer Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 1:52 PM

Way to go, Bud. Whenever we conservatives don't have anything intelligent to say, we can always resort to generalizations and juvenile name-calling.

BTW, have you EVER said ANYTHING intelligent in your life?
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I just did

by Bud Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:29 PM

It wasn't general, it was specific and I 'was' calling it by it's name. And if you open your eyes and take a close look at these oddities (name calling), you can't conclude anything else. By the way, 50,000 of these parading
in a city the size of LA represents one half of one percent or 1 in 200 of the population which also coincides
with the figure the State gives which fits the description in the previous post.. LA's cream of the crop.
And yes, I have expressed the occaisional intelligent thought. You just read one. But if you give a starving man
a gourmet' meal, he won't be able to digest it and therefore rejects it.
Bud
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Bud

by Bush Admirer Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:44 PM

Well, if that tripe is your definition of an intelligent thought, one can conclude that you have no education beyond high school.

BTW, you might try giving that starving brain of yours a "gourmet meal."
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Juvenile, very juvenile

by Bush Admirer (the real one) Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 3:57 PM

It's flattering to know that I have a fan club. They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

However, since you've been, ahem, borrowing my handle, I've had to revise my opinion as to your age. Initially I thought you were about 16. After reading your more recent posts I'm revising my estimate to 14.
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Stop it!

by Bush Admirer (the real one) Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 4:05 PM

I just love letting people know how much they get to me. Whomever's doing this must be one of those wicked Palestinians.
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What?

by Bud Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 4:08 PM

Look, I don't care WHO the fuck Bush Admirer REALLY is. Both of y'all retards can fuck off!
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Bud

by Bush Admirer Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 4:32 PM

Hi Bud

I'm the original Bush Admirer and I agree wholeheartedly with your posts. You'e on target.

What's happening here is that we have a juvenile heckler who is using my handle and others. Indymedia needs a bit of adult supervision and this kid needs a trip to the woodshed.
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Go away!

by Bud Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 4:36 PM

I thought I told y'all turds to fuck off! Leave me alone!
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It's not me

by Bud Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:38 PM

Go away!
by Bud • Sunday March 30, 2003 Sunt 04:36 PM

I thought I told y'all turds to fuck off! Leave me alone!
================================================
The above is not my post!
Bud
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God Bless You Maam

by Justin Fahsanu Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:44 PM

I love you your Madge. I once went to the Palace and fucked one of your corgis.
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Re; What? Not mine

by Bud Monday, Mar. 31, 2003 at 7:45 PM

What?
by Bud • Sunday March 30, 2003 Sunt 04:08 PM

Look, I don't care WHO the fuck Bush Admirer REALLY is. Both of y'all retards can fuck off!
=========================================================================
The above is NOT my post. Maybe it's one of the 'protesters' reffered to earlier.
Bud
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Testomoans

by 1mercy2003 Tuesday, Apr. 01, 2003 at 12:37 AM

Bud:

http://www.grid.unep.ch/activities/sustainable/tigris/marshlands/mesopotamia.pdf

Did ever hear about the writing on the wall...?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4473578,00.html

It began being record more than 8,000 years ago near a place now called Nasiriyah and ends with moans the likes you both boast to the ancient of days
Daniel 7:00 to 8:00
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Info of cause for global anti war protestors to close accounts

by chris star Sunday, Apr. 06, 2003 at 12:39 AM

THE GW BUSH GANG: IG Farben 2001 by Robert Lederman

"What my cabinet shows is that I am not afraid to surround myself with strong and competent people...a good executive is one that understands how to recruit people and how to delegate authority and responsibility." - GW Bush

As promised GW Bush has recruited competent and experienced advisors. Despite their seeming diversity however they have a common denominator. The America they reflect is the oil, pharmaceutical, armament, Wall Street and eugenics interests long associated with the Bush family.

Seventy years ago a similar configuration of oil, pharmaceutical, chemical, military supply and eugenics interests were organized by Wall Street into IG Farben/Standard Oil, Hitler's industrial powerhouse. To grasp the real significance of what GW Bush's cabinet has been brought together to accomplish it is essential to understand the history of IG Farben, its relationship with American corporations and how together they applied modern technology to the task of eugenics or scientific racism.

According to former US Justice Dept. Nazi War Crimes prosecutor John Loftus, who is today the director of the Florida Holocaust Museum, "The Bush family fortune came from the Third Reich" - Sarasota Herald-Tribune 11/11/2000

Along with the Rockefellers ( Standard Oil, Chase Manhattan Bank ), Mellons ( Gulf Oil, Alcoa Aluminum ), DuPonts ( DuPont Chemicals ), General Motors and Henry Ford, banks and shipping companies operated by the Bush family were crucial players in setting up the industrial power behind the Third Reich. These companies poured hundreds of millions of dollars into IG Farben and provided it with technology for tactically, essential synthetic materials, while withholding the same materials and patents from the US government.

The Rockefeller family, long aligned with the Bushes, owned Standard Oil. Through a stock transfer they became half owners of Germany's IG Farben with Farben likewise owning almost half of Standard Oil. According to the Encyclopedia Brittanica, IG Farben built and operated more than 40 concentration camps in Nazi-occupied Europe, including Auschwitz.

At their slave labor/factory/death camps chemicals, weapons, drugs, synthetic fuels and other materials vital to the Nazi war effort were manufactured. In addition, eugenicists like Dr. Josef Mengele used the human subjects in the camps for experiments the data from which are today the basis for many drugs marketed by the pharmaceutical industry, not too surprising in light of the fact that more Americans die from prescription drugs than from any other single cause.

At the end of WWII the allies split up IG Farben into companies that are now the top pharmaceutical concerns on earth among them Bayer, Hoescht, BASF, the Agfa-Gevaert Group and Cassella AG. Many of Wall Streets favorite pharmaceutical/chemical companies behind the proliferation of genetically-altered foods, transgenic animals, human cloning, dangerous psychiatric drugs, deadly vaccines and pesticides, such as Aventis, are subsidiaries of these same companies.

War provides the necessary medium in which this witches brew of oil, eugenics, pharmaceuticals, munitions and Wall Street investing can reach maximum growth. Likewise, war is also the essential frame of reference for the newly formed GW Bush administration.

The high-profile minorities who are working as Bush advisors have been hand-picked, funded and carefully cultivated by right wing think tanks and conservative foundations with a white supremacist philosophy in order to provide cover for their anti-poor, anti-minority eugenics agenda.

For those who scoff at the validity of comparing the Bush administration to the Nazis and IG Farben please note the following. I'm not suggesting that GW Bush is a literal Nazi nor am I implying that everyone who is an oil or pharmaceutical company executive automatically deserves to be linked to IG Farben. That the Bush wealth and prominence in American politics is derived from Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker's support of Hitler is a historical fact. If the connection ended in 1945 with the destruction of Nazi Germany that might have been the end of it, it didn't end there however.

Not only has the eugenics agenda continued but many of the top Nazis who were advancing it during WWII were brought to the US after the war and installed in academia, the media, government research institutions and the CIA by the same American officials who worked with the Bush family to build up Nazi Germany in the first place. Their ideas formed the basis for much of the agenda promoted by this nation's most influential right-wing think tanks-the same think tanks that are the sponsors of GW Bush and virtually every one of his appointees.

Why is it significant that many of Bush's staff and cabinet appointees are former pharmaceutical company executives as was GW's father, former President George Bush? These corporations are voraciously patenting the earth's life forms-its plants, bacteria, viruses, animals and even human genetic lineages. Reproduction of plants, animals and humans may eventually be totally controlled by these corporations, genetically-altered, recombined into chimeric life forms and exploited for profit.

The Human Genome Project, as it admits on the very first page of its website, is derived from the eugenics movement in the US and Nazi Germany during the first half of the 20th century. The Eugenics Records Office at Cold Springs Harbor NY, where American eugenics started, was built by the Harriman family, the Bushes' Wall Street business partners in funding Hitler. This is the new frontier of colonialism in the 21st century, the total domination and exploitation of the earth and everything on it, the New World Order both former President Bush and Adolf Hitler so frequently called for.

While my writings focus on the Republican aspect of this agenda there is no question that many Democrats are participants and that none of these things could be accomplished without the full "bipartisan support" we hear about each and every day.

Some of the men and women who do the thinking for GW Bush:

• Vice President, Dick Cheney, arguably the real President-elect, was one of papa Bush's top advisors. His company, Haliburton, is one of the nation's largest recipients of government contracts, supplying military equipment, oil services and infrastructure. Cheney epitomizes corporate-welfare and like most of Bush's appointees is a multi-millionaire who will receive huge financial benefits from the administrations' policies and any wars it manages to get the US into.

• Secretary of Labor Linda Chavez, who is outspokenly anti-union - was a research fellow at the CIA's Manhattan Institute during 1993 and 1994 and has received almost $200,000 in grants from the John M. Olin Foundation, a notorious right-wing fund derived from a family business in munitions and chemicals with roots in white supremacy. Despite her Hispanic surname she is an outspoken advocate for the English First Movement. Chavez is president of the Center for Equal Opportunity, based in Washington, D.C. an organization dedicated to eliminating affirmative action. On their website Chavez quotes Charles Murray, author of The Bell Curve, a classic of modern racial eugenics which has become the "bible" for the anti-welfare anti-affirmative action movement.

• Secretary of Health and Human Services, Wisconsin Gov. Tommy G. Thompson, is known for his controversial welfare reforms, based in large part on two books by Charles Murray, Losing Ground and The Bell Curve. Murray was a consultant for the Wisconsin welfare reform program. Thompson's protege, Jason Turner, was later brought to NYC where he has run Mayor Giuliani's characteristically brutal welfare elimination program. Turner became notorious for quoting the motto on the gates over Auschwitz, "Arbeit Macht Frei" or "work shall make you free." He is frequently a guest with Charles Murray in panel discussions at the CIA's Manhattan Institute and other Bush-connected think tanks. Murray wrote The Bell Curve while a fellow at the Manhattan Institute where his pseudo-scientific research on the genetic inferiority of African Americans was primarily financed by the Pioneer Fund. Since 1937 the Pioneer Fund has promoted eugenics and the ideology of white racial superiority.

• Secretary of Energy, Spencer Abraham, who served as Vice President Dan Quale's chief of staff, spent years trying to abolish the very agency he will now head. His legislative positions include being against higher fuel efficiency standards for cars, being against government regulations for industry and support for opening up national parklands to oil drilling. He is a recipient of oil company contributions totaling more than $221,000 according to the NY Times. The American Petroleum Institute has said it looks forward to working with Abraham. Abraham helped found the conservative law group the Federalist Society which specializes in eliminating social programs, affirmative action, welfare and bilingual education. The society is funded by the John M. Olin Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, the Bradley Foundation, and the Lilly Endowment, America's leading far right think tanks. Among its most prominent members are Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Thomas whose questionable election ruling gave Bush his illegitimate Presidency. Spokespersons for the Federalist Society include Bell Curve author Charles Murray, Manhattan Institute fellow Abigail Thernstrom, and Dinesh daSouza of the American Enterprise Institute.

• Secretary of Education, Rod Paige, the latest African American Bush appointee, is a conservative public schools administrator in Texas and decades-long crony of the Bush family who supports vouchers, tying teacher pay directly to test scores and school privatization, all of which will negatively impact African American students by destroying public education.

• Secretary of Defense, Donald H. Rumsfeld was Secretary of Defense under President Ford. Rumsfeld like Powell, Cheney, Rice and numerous other Bush administration officials is a salesman for the Star Wars Missile Defense Shield. He served four terms in the US Congress where he voted against Medicare, anti-poverty programs like Headstart, food stamps and various healthcare proposals. Rumsfeld, who formerly headed Searle Pharmaceuticals, is part of the drug company axis within the Bush administration. Former President Bush was director of Eli Lilly, OMB head Mitchell E. Daniels was also senior executive of Eli Lilly and AG John Ashcroft is known as a lobbyist for pharmaceutical companies.

• Dr. Gail R. Wilensky, one of numerous John M. Olin grant recipients attached to Bush, is the principal author of GW's Medicare plan. Wilensky serves on the boards of eight health care companies in which she owns more than $12 million in stock.

• Secretary of State, Colin Powell is a lifelong operative of the CIA/military-industrial complex. While working for the Pentagon he earned his present stature by helping cover up the Mai Lai massacre, the contra/arms-cocaine deal and Gulf War Syndrome. Powell's reputation as a hero derives from presiding over a war in which US troops were used as guinea pigs for drug companies' experimental vaccines so that they could "safely" fight George Bush's friend Sadamn Hussein who had been supplied with chemical and biological weapons by the Bush administration. Unlike most of GW's appointees of color, Powell proudly admits he owes his career to affirmative action yet willingly joins an administration that considers ending affirmative action a top priority.

• Secretary of the Treasury, Paul H. O'Neill is the chairman of Alcoa Aluminum, one of the world's worst polluters and a leading corporate supporter of Nazi Germany and eugenics. O'Neill owns 1.6 million shares of Alcoa, worth more than $50 million. During WWII Alcoa negotiated a deal with the Nazis and IG Farben to supply Germany's war machine rather than the US military with aluminum. "If America loses this war," said then Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes on June 26, 1941, "it can thank the Aluminum Corporation of America ( ALCOA )." Alcoa produces hundreds of millions of tons of fluoride. This highly toxic waste byproduct of aluminum has been linked in thousands of medical studies to cancer and other degenerative diseases. In the 1950's Alcoa arranged to have it added to our nation's drinking water rather than disposed of as toxic waste. During WWII in IG Farben's slave labor camps Nazi scientists discovered that by adding fluoride to the drinking water they could make prisoners more submissive to authority. O'Neill is a fellow at the RAND Corporation and American Enterprise Institute, two more extreme right-wing think tanks.

• Attorney General John Ashcroft is a self-styled moral crusader as strongly anti-abortion as he is enthusiastic about the death penalty. Last year, Ashcroft received an honorary degree from Bob Jones University. He is closely aligned with the Christian Coalition, Pat Robertson and Southern heritage groups which admire the Confederacy and defend the institution of slavery as practiced in the South. He is known among lobbyists as an advocate for drug companies and the automotive industry and for preventing consumers from suing HMO's. The furor over Ashcroft's anti-abortion views is being played out exactly as planned by Team Bush. Not only will the Bush administration never make abortions illegal, if anything the eugenics agenda that underlies the Bush family history guarantees that abortion, sterilization and other technologies intended to limit population, including war, chemical exposure, pesticide use in urban areas, genetically-altered foods and vaccines, will proceed at an unprecedented level. The Bush gang were delighted to see Democrats, women's rights advocates and the left focusing on Ashcroft while virtually ignoring the other Bush appointees.

• Secretary of Commerce Donald L. Evans is an insider in the Texas "oil mafia" and is GW's closest friend and confidant. He's also friend, confidant and contributor to one of America's biggest recipients of government contacts, Halliburton's Dick Cheney.

• Office of Management and Budget Director Mitchell E. Daniels Jr., was senior executive of the Eli Lilly drug company and was previously the president of the arch-conservative Hudson Institute. Daniels, who advocates strict enforcement of laws against casual drug users, was busted for drugs in 1970.

Bush and eugenics links:
http://www.padrak.com/alt/BUSHBOOK_INDEX.html
http://www.geocities.com/alanjpakula/triplecrown.html
http://www.shorejournal.com/elkhorn/
http://www.bartcop.com/nazigop.htm

Past articles by Robert Lederman about West Nile Virus, Bush, Giuliani, Manhattan Institute and Eugenics can be found at:
http://Baltech.org/lederman/spray/

Robert Lederman, President of A.R.T.I.S.T.
(Artists Response To Illegal State Tactics)
ARTISTpres@aol.com
(718) 743-3722

Please forward and post widely - Thanks!

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morons

by Abe Thursday, Apr. 10, 2003 at 7:03 PM

You morons need to find somethig better to do with your time. Support our troops and the leader of the free nation which gives you idiots the right to protest.
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Get a Clue

by FUCK OFF, ABE Thursday, Apr. 10, 2003 at 7:21 PM

Get a Clue...
ksign__abe.gif, image/gif, 466x640

error
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No leader & No freedom

by 1mercy2003 Friday, Apr. 11, 2003 at 9:59 AM

Which leader and which in U.S. troops ever fought for freedom? U.S. is a Republic and always has been.

U.S. has enslaves Iraq with "food of oil" since U.S. needs and those of world include housing-clothing-ect...

Smack - try driving up your local pump with a "american as pie" in hand, see how fast 'mobile' says move along..."We don't accept food for oil" why should one of the oil richest nation, especially since the Bush family has been paid not pump their oil since 1970's?
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lies of demonstration

by 1mercy2003 Thursday, Apr. 17, 2003 at 4:29 AM

oppressed not impressed by 1mercy2003 Apparently not everyone one thought that the "historic" demsontration around a toppled statue of Saddam the other day by newly "liberated" Iraqi's was a little suspect.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm



If you get the chance, do a little searching on this topic on your own. There's a number of good articles around the web, this just happened to be the one to link to.


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if a word that's cause 4 war

by 1mercy2003 Sunday, Apr. 20, 2003 at 5:32 PM

"truths" that you find to be
self evident - is in itself, nuetrality.

Nuetrality would be to live without the confines of death-
or
live within the confines of death.
But is not both for that is not an either or option.

So when you say, yet all I hear from others, is Yadda Yadda stupid, moron etc.

Isn't that an oximoron.

[because, who ever said, Moores are not intelligent, this is where our education began, Maurentana].

What people are hearing you say, "is that only YOU have the right to exercise, "truths" that you find to be self evident.

When we, the people who tell,

[tell,=(tell me why)>[the me is you]>(people are those who tell you why),]

it is not to discount, all the good points you often state nor to insist you accept ours.

It is just say that, the If you throw in there, can't justify an action.

An if is not - "truths" that you find to be self evident".

We did not say, IF every man is created equal. The constitution says that, "each man IS created equal". The constitution did not say that each man must believe in the same thing, with the except of the, "truths" that you find to be self evident", that all man are created equal.

While it is true, that U.S. does not treat each man as equal, each individual is protected by those words.

You are asking us to rationalize IF this protection should protest us from death.

Your argument is now, that man does not only have the right to be equal, but is additionally protecting themselves from,
what they,
MAYBE,
BELIEVE,
MIGHT,
happen in some future,
distant time,
And all of this is-
base on the past.

This sounds specious... These action are making it impossible to live in the present. Hence forth, you find DEATH as an option.

To act on the If?>>>
[death, suicide, murder, war,] is exercising or expunging, others rights to be those of, "truths" that you find to be self evident ---

The action to take anothers life is to find:

Those other individuals without the right to find, "truths" that you find to be self evident, CAUSE, they are dead.

Wherefore, you have betrayed the "truths" that you find to be self evident, which were meant to protect, "all men who are created equal".


close bank accounts/boycott all global world co's
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The Pentagon speaks about the protests

by daveman Monday, Apr. 21, 2003 at 5:38 AM

http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/cat_global_news.html

Decapitation Attack On Peace Movement Succeeds
(2003-03-23) -- U.S. officials don't know when, or how it happened, but intelligence in the field indicates that an apparent 'decapitation attack' on the peace movement succeeded.

"The anti-Bush protestors are wandering about in clusters, shouting a variety of unrelated messages," said an unnamed Pentagon source. "It's clear that there is no cohesive leadership. The protestors look bedraggled and confused. We don't know when the decapitation attack happened, or who did it. Frankly, we've just been ignoring them and moving on to our objectives."

A spokesman for protestors in San Francisco rejected the Pentagon assertion.

"We're focused and determined to stop this war for oil and let the Iraqi people run their own democracy," the spokesman said. "And we must seek justice for gays and do a re-count of the 2000 presidential election ballots and let women choose abortions and Bush is worse than Saddam and we still haven't captured bin Laden and what about North Korean nukes and world opinion is against us and get Israel out of Palestine and force the U.S. to obey Jacques Chirac and Kofi Annan, and...did I leave anything out? But anyway, that's our purpose and we will never waver...and, remember, all these protests are spontaneous. The next one is scheduled for tomorrow night at seven."

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Scrappleface.com eh?

by systemfailure Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 1:55 AM

Theres a valid news source.
What a jackass (OHHH NOOO profanity......i guess i lose)
unnamed news source?
bullshit web reference?
who looks stupid now
neocon.
ps
you are a disgrace to the founding forefathers
and a traitor to the constitution
.......getting angry at people demostrating thier first amendment rights..
shame on you...
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HA HA HA HA!

by daveman Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 2:00 AM

You idiot.

I know it's humor; something with which you have only a pasing acquaintance.

I was just looking through the ScrappleFace archives, found the article, ans posted it for laughs.

Who looks stupid now?

And where am I?
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kinda wierd?

by systemfailure Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 2:47 AM

the last resort of an argument to avoid the previous premises.....
is to say it was satire.......
kinda funny thought......
you didnt mention that in your post?
who looks stupid now........
hahhahahahha
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Telethon for People With No Sense of Humor

by daveman Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 2:58 AM

You can be the Poster Child.

And the more you try to make me look silly by posting humor which you didn't get, the sillier you look.

Who looks stupid now?
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Yeah your right (winger)

by systemfailure Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 3:07 AM

can you point out the statements in your post
that showed you were trying to make a joke?
I didnt see any..........
It looked to me like you were trying to convince someone
that "lefties" were "decapitated"
cuz
the pentagon said so............
ps
thats a pretty good assesment of you neocons
is all else fails
say
"i was just kidding"
dumbass (i guess i lost again for using profanity)
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I keep throwin' 'em...

by daveman Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 3:38 AM

...and you keep missin' 'em.

Perhaps I was banking too heavily on your ability to spot sarcasm without a big neon sign saying SARCASM pointing to it.

Next time I'll take into account your failings, which are evinced by your unintentional flailings trying to make me look silly.

INSERT PHOTO OF SYSTEMFAILURE
"Won't you help this boy? He was born without a sense of humor. Your generous gift will open the world of laughter to him.

"Please give. So many are depending on you to give the gift of humor."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SARCASM ALERT!
SARCASM ALERT!
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ignoramus

by systemfailure Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 3:45 AM

can you show me in the post
THE BIG SIGN SHOWING SARCASM?
didnt think so
what
a
loser
(typical fascist)
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Poor thing...

by daveman Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 3:56 AM

...I didn't know, at the time, that you needed a sarcasm sign.

I'm going to put jars at the grocery stores in town to collect money for your telethon.
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thanks for admitting defeat .......brainwashed program

by systemfailure Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 4:10 AM

way not to addrress the issues.........
wow
If you only had knowledge of the history of the people leading up the the revolution.......
you might have a fucking clue?
drive a ford ranger?
geez your dumb.....
ps
dont they still have qualifying tests to get into the military?
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Geez, it's like arguing...

by daveman Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 5:13 AM

...with a brick wall.

How are "...the history of the people leading up the the revolution....... " and what I drive "addrress[ing] the issues"?

This is why I'd rather make fun of you people. You can't debate, you change the subject, and make ridiculous personal accusations.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

Note: The preceeding sentence is NOT sarcasm.
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scoreboard

by Darwin Tuesday, Apr. 22, 2003 at 8:41 AM

daveman-1
EVOLUTION-0
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international unions protest

by 1mercy2003 Tuesday, Apr. 29, 2003 at 8:58 PM

Certainty there are numerous independant dealers on the web for just about any product anyone would want or need, right down to (B's) chocolate:). For those boycotting global world co's the ranks of labor becoming aware:

Here are some statements from labor reflecting anti war views --

As a result, six international unions, and numerous central labor councils and local union have taken these positions. And new Labor Against the War committees are being established.


The growing opposition among workers

Labor?s voice against the war on Iraq


GEORGE W. Bush?s war on Iraq is bad for workers--at home and abroad. That?s the conclusion being reached by a growing number of working people--both individually, and together, through their unions and organizations.

At the January 18 antiwar protest in Washington D.C., some 2,000 unionists--among them, members of New York?s health care union 1199, who traveled on 25 buses to get there--marched together behind the banner "Labor Against the War." Another national protest a few months before was led by a drill team from the West Coast dockworkers? union, the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU).

If anyone needed any proof of how willing Bush was to use the "war on terrorism" as an excuse to attack workers, the administration--claiming that locked-out ILWU members were a "threat to national security"--last year used the anti-labor Taft-Hartley Act to force a rotten contract down the throats of the dockworkers.

More and more unions are recognizing the threat of Bush?s war on workers at home, as well as his wars abroad. So far, six international unions and dozens of locals and labor councils have passed resolutions opposing an attack on Iraq. Labor activists came together from different unions to form antiwar committees in numerous cities.

On January 11, some 100 unionists--elected officials, staff members and rank and filers, representing the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), Teamsters, ILWU, United Auto Workers, AFSCME and others--came together in Chicago to form a national antiwar organization called U.S. Labor Against the War (USLAW).

This is a tremendous step forward--especially considering the AFL-CIO?s pro-war position after September 11, as well the federation?s long history of backing U.S. military adventures abroad, which earned it the nickname "AFL-CIA."

At a meeting the night before the USLAW founding conference, Bill Davis, chief steward for International Association of Machinists Local 701 at UPS in Chicago and former national coordinator of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, explained that there is a different tradition in American labor--opposition to war.

"Working-class veterans comprised the movement during the Depression of the 1930s that marched on Washington," Davis said. "And they didn?t just demand for themselves, they demanded for the entire class--housing, food and the basic things that are guaranteed us as human beings. The back home movement after World War II, the veterans? antiwar movement during and after the Vietnam War--these are all legacies of veterans and the working class, and they?re something that we should be proud of."

Past wars have shown that it is workers who pay the price for Washington?s military adventures--with their lives on the battlefield, and with their living standards and civil liberties at home. And the concessions don?t disappear when the war is over either.

The February 15 antiwar protest in New York City is a huge opportunity to show workers? opposition to this war. Several unions--including 1199, SEIU, the Transport Workers Union, the Professional Staff Congress and the United Auto Workers--have promised to mobilize thousands of members.

Actions like these will give other workers around the country the confidence to stand up against Bush?s war on Iraq--a war that will be paid for on the backs of working people.

"The Iraqi people aren?t our enemy"

Michael Letwin is former president of UAW Local 2325/Association of Legal Aid Attorneys, co-convenor of New York City Labor Against the War (NYCLAW) and a founding member of USLAW. He talked to Socialist Worker about labor?s growing involvement in the antiwar movement.

-------------------------------


CAN YOU describe the growing labor opposition to the war?

THERE?S A huge increase in labor antiwar activity reflected in a number of different ways. Labor bodies in this country that represent 5 million workers have adopted antiwar positions. That?s a huge change from right after September 11, when committees like NYCLAW and those in the Bay Area and Washington, D.C., were really out there by ourselves.

Rank-and-file working people are overwhelmingly opposed to the war in Iraq. As a result, six international unions, and numerous central labor councils and local union have taken these positions. And new Labor Against the War committees are being established.

Since September 11, this has been an essential way of bringing people together across union lines to speak out--and to create space for others to speak out.

WHAT HAVE you found to be the sentiment about the war on Iraq?

IT?S HARD to find anyone in labor who supports the war. There are a number of reasons why. One, Vietnam vets in the workforce have played a critical role to conveying working-class opposition to the war, because almost all Vietnam vets are working class, and many are active in their unions.

Beyond that, Vietnam has a strong resonance among working-class people of all ages, and if Iraq looks and smells like Vietnam, people figure that this isn?t a good place for their sons and daughters in uniform.

They can see the war at home is directly hitting them--huge budget cuts at the state, federal and municipal level, all directed against services for working people. And people see that union busting has been escalated under the pretext of September 11, including attacks on longshore workers, airline workers, federal government workers.

Working people--especially immigrant workers--have been directly and harshly affected by the post-September attack on civil liberties and immigrant rights. When you put this all together, what you have is not homogenous opposition to the war, but nonetheless, all these factors contribute to a very high level of antiwar sentiment within the working class.

All of this--antiwar committees, resolutions, rank-and-file opposition--created the groundwork for U.S. Labor Against the War, which is an important development in terms of reflecting all this sentiment and organizing.

HOW DO we link the war at home with the war abroad?

IT?S EXTREMELY important to say that the people of Iraq are not our enemies. But above all, we must connect the war to issues that hit people most directly and immediately. That involves talking about American casualties--who will be working class and disproportionately people of color, because that?s the rank and file of the U.S. military.

We must also show that we will pay for this war with more terrorist attacks on the U.S., with our dollars, with our blood, with our rights, with our unions--with everything that people have fought so hard to win over many decades of struggle.

We have to make clear that it?s not Iraq that is the enemy of working people in the country. It?s our own government--just as, during Vietnam, Martin Luther King pointed out that this government is the biggest purveyor of violence in the world.

WHY IS labor?s participation so important?

LABOR HAS an unparalleled power to end the war because it?s working people in uniform who fight the war; it?s working people at home who run the economy as a whole. Were it possible to mobilize workers to oppose the war by taking direct action and resistance at those points of production and those points of warfare, then the war could not go forward.

We?re nowhere near that now, but we can move in that direction by mobilizing increasingly large numbers and by beginning to raise the question of direct labor action against the war. Eventually, we can emulate the GI resistance during Vietnam and the British railway workers? recent refusal to load war materials.


These articles tell war protestors they are not alone in finding ways to:

break ties with global world co's
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international union protest

by cam Saturday, Jun. 07, 2003 at 12:46 PM

If you get any more info on this post it. Very worthwhile most people are to out there to care but they soon find themselves left out in the cold
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Never gonna happen, my friend.

by KOBE SBM Saturday, Jun. 07, 2003 at 3:27 PM

"Labor" as you refer to it, is actually the unions. Fortunately for us who are living in the 21st Century, the old school idea of labor unions is losing ground. The AFL-CIO is actually a big gang which is extorting money and resources from the ACTUAL labor force. The ever increasing demand of the unions are killing large corporations financially, and in the long run they are actually killing themselves. It is very easy to "bust" the unions. Bankruptcy, re-organization, the creation of "open shops", etc. Read this article: http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_3387.shtml and understand why Unions are passe.

Boldly stated, the position of the labor unionist is "less work and more pay". That position is utter BULLSHIT. It allows the lazy to be compensated for their sloth, and prevents the employers from easily getting rid of them. That mentality will NOT be allowed to persist into this century. I have walked into the manufacturing shops of certain Aerospace manufacturing companies to see workers playing cards on the assembly lines because there were no parts being manufactured. For their "presence" which is mandated by the union, they are paid full wages. HUH???

Time will transform these big shops which are the targets of union pundits into smaller, more efficient shops with part-time or contract workers who will actually WORK. Organized labor will NEVER have sway over national policy, and they will immediately be dissolved if they ever try ti interfere with military operations of any kind.

Wake up, Neo.
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Oil contracts expose Bechtel

by jen jones Monday, Jun. 09, 2003 at 8:43 AM

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
JUNE 5, 2003
10:53 AM
CONTACT: Public Citizen
202-588-7742
New Report Exposes Contractor Bechtel as Threat to Iraqi Environment, Human Rights and Basic Services;
U.S. Taxpayers Blindly Funding Post-War Corporate Profiteering and Cronyism, Public Interest Groups Say
SAN FRANCISCO, CA - June 5 - Bechtel Group Inc., one of the lead contractors in the reconstruction of Iraq, has a 100-year history of capitalizing on environmentally unsustainable technologies and reaping immense profits at the expense of societies and the environment, said a report released today by Public Citizen, Global Exchange and CorpWatch. Its release was timed to coincide with a day of direct actions around the country to protest Bechtel’s presence in Iraq, the report concludes that the Bush administration must be stopped from doling out contracts to undeserving firms with which it has close ties, including Bechtel and Halliburton.
The report, Bechtel: Profiting from Destruction, provides case studies from Bechtel’s history of operations in the water, nuclear, energy and public works sectors. It documents a track record by Bechtel of environmental destruction, disregard for human rights and financial mismanagement of projects that has affected communities all over the world and does not bode well for the people of Iraq.
"If environmental and consumer protection violations had been taken into account, Bechtel would not have been awarded such an important contract in Iraq," said Sara Grusky, senior organizer with Public Citizen. "The American people are funding this contract through their tax dollars but are being denied the right to see what their money is supporting."
On April 17, Bechtel was awarded $34.6 million of an 18-month Iraq reconstruction contract worth up to $680 million, including the rehabilitation, reconstruction and expansion covering all key elements of Iraq’s infrastructure, including electrical grids, water and wastewater systems. The contract was part of a limited bidding process that forbade public review and was kept secret even from Congress.
"This contract is about profit-making, not humanitarian efforts," said Maria Elena Martinez, executive director of CorpWatch. "The Iraqi people are in desperate straits thanks to the U.S. government, and now a U.S. company stands to make hundreds of millions of dollars. It exemplifies the typical revolving door between big business and government - in this case, Bechtel’s board members and our high-ranking government officials."
A historical look at Bechtel’s wrongdoings includes:
• In Papua New Guinea, Bechtel partnered in constructing the world’s largest gold mine in 1970. The mine daily dumps hundreds of thousands of tons of toxic waste from the mining operations directly into local rivers. In 2000, a waste dump accident resulted in four deaths.
• Environmental and human rights groups have charged that Bechtel, in a partnership with Shell called InterGen, circumvented U.S. environmental laws by building a power plant on the Mexican border for the sole purpose of exporting energy to the United States. The La Rosita InterGen plant located in Mexicali, Baja Calif., and partly owned by Bechtel, was the subject of a May 6, 2003, court ruling that found that the U.S. Department of Energy and Bureau of Land Management had acted illegally in granting permits to InterGen to build this power plant.
• In Cochabamba, Bolivia, in 1999, Aguas del Tunari, a subsidiary of Bechtel, provoked protests that shut down the city when it privatized the city’s water system, then implemented massive price hikes that left many people unable to afford water. The United Nations has formally declared water to be a human right - Bechtel violated this international resolution when it deprived people of their right to water. The outcry forced the Bolivian government to cancel Bechtel’s contract; Bechtel is now suing the country in a World Bank court for $25 million in lost profits.
• At nuclear power plants in Palisades, Mich.; Humboldt Bay, Calif.; Three Mile Island, Penn.; San Onofre, Calif., and Davis-Besse, Ohio, Bechtel was involved in some of the U.S. commercial nuclear industry’s more notable mishaps.
• In Nevada, Bechtel was awarded the management contract for a proposed nuclear waste repository at Yucca Mountain, a site considered sacred by the Western Shoshone people and part of a decades-long land dispute between the United States government and the Native Americans. On these same lands, Bechtel manages a Nevada test site and counterterrorism facility where nuclear, biological and chemical weapons construction and testing are carried out. The operation of the facility and its environmental and health effects have prompted ongoing protests from Native Americans, environmental and disarmament advocates.
• In Boston, Bechtel’s mismana
T.C.
Sun, Jun 8, 9:42 AM • In Boston, Bechtel’s mismanagement and cost overruns have been unprecedented. Bechtel designed and manages the Boston Central Artery tunnel project, also known as "the Big Dig." This federally funded project is the most costly civil engineering undertaking in U.S. history; estimated at $2.5 billion in 1985, it reached $14.6 billion in 2003.

· In San Francisco in 2002, the Board of Supervisors phased out a contract with Bechtel for the management of the upgrade of the city’s water systems before its completion date. Bechtel was charged with doing unnecessary and overpriced work and charging the city for tens of thousands of dollars’ worth of personal expenses.

The report also documents Bechtel’s history in Iraq, where the company was pushing for an oil pipeline deal in the 1980s at the same time that Saddam Hussein was committing his worst atrocities against the Iraqi people. Bechtel was named by Hussein’s government as one of the U.S. companies that provided it with materials that could be used to make weaponry.

"Bechtel has demonstrated brazen moral corruption by first contributing to the development of Iraq’s weapons, then pushing for a war against Iraq, and finally profiting from the tragedy and destruction wrought by that war," said Andrea Buffa, peace campaign coordinator at Global Exchange. "It is a textbook example of what war profiteering looks like. This report answers the question – ‘What's wrong with Bechtel?’ "

The report’s recommendations include:

• Implementing a democratic reconstruction in Iraq, led by the Iraqi people with the help of international institutions like the United Nations.

• Opening up and making transparent the bidding process for U.S. government contracts in Iraq and elsewhere.

• Companies bidding for U.S. government contracts should have satisfactory records of integrity and business ethics.

[boycott global world co's]
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Look to God, not Man

by Ron Ginther Wednesday, Jan. 31, 2007 at 7:24 AM

Who is illegitimate? He was clearly
God's choice, and God put him in as
our President. If you have a
problem with President Bush,, take it up with Almighty God.

No President can save us. Only
God can. He can use a leader
who will humble himself enough to
pray for guidance. Are we willing to
humble ourselves, to seek God, and
actually turn to Jesus Christ who is
God's mediator for us human beings?
If you are looking to any man,
he will fail you. Look to God, and
then you will not be disappointed.
Best wishes, Ron Ginther
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"God put him in as our President."

by oh, really? Wednesday, Jan. 31, 2007 at 3:43 PM

Wasn't it the Supreme Court?
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"kill the fuckers " or something

by Good One Wednesday, Jan. 31, 2007 at 5:05 PM

Just what's needed to provoke a suitable repression.
The answer is a national shutdown. Then we can starve the fuckers out and put them on trial.
Anyone advocating violence is usually a spook.
Or an idiot, or both.
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