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Don't waste your time with anti-working class primitivists.
Their politics are based on an extremely individualistic version of anarchism. They don't care about working class issues and spew ideas about the need to reduce the human population by whatever means works. They don't like to talk about this when asked and usually avoid the question.

Green Anarchy is a primitivist organization that hates technology, but they will undoubtedly use transportation for their tour ( i doubt they are walking around the country). Ask them how they arrived in your town and then talk to them about technology. i am critical of technology in general, but i understand that it has to be controlled very carefully. GA wants to get rid of most of it.

For a real discussion of anarchist ideas based human social values of solidarity and working class interests, please visit some websites:

www.infoshop.org
www.akpress.org
www.ainfos.ca
www.radio4all.net (search for 'renewing the anarchist tradition' to see a social ecology perspective)


social anarchist

What the fuck?

Why don't you not waste your time bashing other anarchists. Your generalizations are absurd. Most every green anarchist I know is social, not individualistic. I am a green anarchist and am very concerned with both social and environmental issues.

If you want to have the argument over the pros and cons of technology and civilization we can have it, but you cant discredit the anti tech position by saying that anyone who is anti tech is somehow full of shit if they use a car or the internet.

In order to overthrow this system we necessairly will have to use some of the tools of the oppressor. Rest assured that once this foul system crubles I will be the first one smashing my computer. I dont like them anymore than I like cars and I dont like cars much more than I like tumors.

By the way, why dont you post your name so I know who you are!!!!!

From Jeff (A proud Green Anarchist)

This supposed debate between "reds" & "greens" is a false argument. They both seek to end certain types of alienation due to alienated labor, or the alienation created within Western Civilization. And to brand yourself as an elite by calling yourself a social anarchist is more crap. As if primitivism is against cooperation. This dichotomy into two different ideological camps are doomed not by their ideas, but by their rigidity to stay within the confines of any ideology. Critical thought is necessary for the subversion of this alienating society to a truly liberated society, not a superior ideology. To argue on either side of this ideological fence is a waste of time since both sides seem to want more to win the argument, than to challenge themselves in a critical way. Ideologies are the death of ideas, don't let the dead control the living. People aren't ideas, they are PEOPLE!

in solidarity,
Yohualli

Yohualli,

Have you bothered to read any of the rhetoric coming out of Green Anarchy? If you had, you may notice that most of what they are saying is factually incorrect and very much opposed to a class analysis of the issues. Many of the GA people are adament believers in the works of Zerzan, a person who advocates a hunter-gatherer society without technology. Zerzan advocates the need to reduce the human population in order to do this (but he won't say how). Zerzan distorts the history of anarchism and it's socialist roots, distorts anarchism's history with the labor movement and class struggle. Zerzan is far from an anarchist, but more of a libertarian individualist primitivist.

I would suggest that readers take a close look at Murray Bookchin's work on the subject:

http://www.spunk.org/library/writers/bookchin/sp001512/

This isn't about being elitist which is a nonsense argument, this is about being critical of the distortians and hijacking of a social movement (anarchism) that is equally concerned with the environment as well as human suffering. (ohh, and just to set that ridiculous argument to rest, by the same token, isn't calling yourself a Green Anarchist elitist too?).

Social Anarchist

Yes, I have read GA rhetoric, and I know that there are some odd assumptions and notions but I'm not going to say that it's all crap, 'cause it's not. And to say that they have "hijacked" anarchism is really funny. As if anarchism only belongs to those who adhere to what you specifically want. If you are really interested in a liberated society you wouldn't leave certain ideas out of the scene, but look at them critically and not make generalizing statements. To say anarchism, is so and so, is to be authoritarian because you are therefore any deviation from the norm of what anarchism. Of course certain outshoots do seem to be more interested in personal self-interest than others, but what can you do?

And is Murray Bookchin your own person Zerzan? And saying that you come off as an elitist by saying your a "social anarchist" I feel is cogent. Why else would you throw out that term out there? You throw it out there as a means to seperate yourself from those who call themselves "green anarchist" in a sort of, "i'm a better anarchist than them, i'm a SOCIAL anarchist." I'm not bad mouthing your "critique" of green anarchists but of how you come off.

And yes calling yourself a Green Anarchist can be somewhat construed as elitist.

What I'm warning against is the so called discourse out there which is more about "my ideas are better than yours" than to create some pro-active discussion. This battle of ideologies. Which IS what it is. I myself like delving into all sorts of ideas from anarchist, to marxist, to situationist, to communialist, to whatever. Cross culturation of ideas, like genes create a stronger theory.

in response to your comment "anarchist", i would say that you got all your definitions of the word "primitive" wrong. of course, we are not primitive, that being obvious. we who came up with the green anarchy tour all grew up in civilization. civilization and technology, that taking strong part in what we consider oppressive in all forms. we are primitivist. we desire the ENTIRE destruction of technology, along with civilization. yes we will be traveling in an automobile, have musical equipment, videos, and many other different sort of technological devices. that we will admit. but we are using them as a weapon. a weapon against what we hate. what we despise. of course in this world of shit they do exist and we will use them as weapon against what is destroying mother earth. if you cant see that the world is being destroyed, then i would hate to know what you do see. a suggestion... next time you decide to be critical, know your definitions of the words you use.
email me if youd like as all others.
savage