www.ccir.net/webcgibin/index.cgi

Bigots in California celebrate deaths of Mexican immigrants.

More than a dozen Mexicans perished in the desert this week due to the get-tough border policies implemented by Clinton and continued by Bush. In response, Anti-Mexican bigots in California blamed the victims, celebrated their deaths, and took the occasion to threaten future militia violence. See and respond to their comments on this board:

www.ccir.net/webcgibin/index.cgi

Because border enforcement has been tightened in urban areas under the get-tough policy initiated under the Clinton administration, Mexican migrant workers have been driven to cross the border in more remote areas. As a result, more than a dozen Mexicans perished in the desert just this week alone.

In response, Anti-Mexican bigots in California celebrated and took the occasion to threaten future militia violence.

Here are a couple of the reactions of the anti-Mexican bigots at the California Coalition for Immigration Reform (CCIR) website:



> I have not one iota of sympathy

> Posted by Dwight D on 05/24/01 - 09:45:29

> IP: 63.205.137.160 Browser: Mozilla/4.0

> (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 95; DigExt)

>

> I have not one iota of sympathy for those who

> die while illegally invading our borders. They

> get what they deserve. Maybe they should have

> waited for their "survival kits." But there's

> one ingrediant missing from those kits. The

> kits should include a remedy for gunshot

> wounds...



> Where did I say I was "afraid"?

> Posted by Ronald J. Brown on 05/24/01 -

> 16:20:43

> IP: 64.160.234.55 Browser: Mozilla/4.0

> (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0)

>

> I'm armed better than any of them will be.

> Can you say "50 caliber semi-automatic"?

> Can you say "two to five mile range"?

> Can you say "armor piercing"?

> It's legal too. Imagine that...



You can add your own comments on the CCIR board at the following address:

Oh yes! Of course they are bigots! Americans are tired of

illegal immigration, the person that posted this muck,

is trying to project that if you are against illegal immigration, you are a BIGOT!

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS A CRIME! This poster (humanbeing)

or whatever his name is probably has relatives in Latin

America he wishes to bring over ILLEGALLY.

DON'T BUY INTO THIS LIE! CCIR IS A AMERICAN PATRIOTIC

GROUP.

WOULD MEXICO HELP US IF WE WERE CROSSING THE DESERT?

THEY EVICTED OUR ELDERLY THAT BUILT HOMES IN MEXICO WITH

THEIR LIFE SAVING, AND WITH THEIR ARMY!

You did us a favor by proving how stupid the supporters of CCIR are.

To: matt mattdw@iprimus.com.au>

Subject: la censors story and COMMENT!

Cc: declan McCullagh declan@well.com>



la indy censors COMMENT! (english)

by matt o'dwyer 1:28pm Fri May 25 '01 (Modified on 1:33pm Fri May 25 '01)

mattdw@iprimus.com.au



Comment pulled,angry denunciation left.

repost attempt gets DB error message.

Is the EFF helping indymedia?



Bush in Los Angeles ALERT!

by Jamie Murray 12:20am Thu May 24 '01

CounterCoupLA@aol.com



California tells Bush and Davis RATE CAPS NOW, the energy scam must stop! Protest at Bush

appearance in Century City, Tuesday, May 29th.

Protest Bush's Energy Plan

Demand that Bush implement wholesale energy price caps

now!



When: Tuesday May 29th

Time: 11:30AM to 2:00 PM

Where: Century Plaza Hotel

(World Affairs Council Luncheon)

2025 Avenue of the Stars

Century City, CA 90067



Join Global Exchange and the Coalition for Clean Affordable Energy for a spirited protest as

George Bush gives a lunch time address hosted by the Los Angeles World Affairs Council.



The goal is to make this a big protest. We will demand that Bush ask the Federal Energy

Regulatory Commission (FERC) to implement wholesale energy price caps immediately!! For

more info: www.powertothepeople.org



Help make this protest! Show up, bring signs and props, wear costumes etc...



We are coordinating actions at Camp Pendleton, in Los Angeles, and in Fresno - everywhere

Bush will be making stops on his California visit.



www.powertothepeople.org or www.actionla...



add your comments







DISCLAIMER

by elbop 8:13am Thu May 24 '01

phone: 626-796-5805 elbop@loop.com



WHAT A FUCKING IDIOT.

the post above (the one that says things I WILL NOT REPEAT even to ID it)



If this is not removed, I am worried for the safety of all of us planning to go to the Hotel on Tuesday.



I address agents of the State here, who are monitoring this site:



THE POST IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ANYONE BUT THE SICK IGNORAMOUS WHO POSTED IT.



TO USE THIS AS A JUSTIFICATION TO SQUELCH ANY FREE SPEECH ACTIVITIES HERE IN LA WOULD BE A DISASTER!



I suspect it has been posted in a deliberate attempt to provide exactly sush a rationale for supression of our Free Speech rights on Tuesday and around the entire upcoming tour of the Shrub through our region.



I stand in total dissasscociation from this sickeningly stupidpiece of trash.



peace, struggle and upfront honest committment to nonviolence!



elbop



www.actionla.org





missing comment reposted and soon to be spammed...



To: matt mattdw@iprimus.com.au>

Subject: lost angels



Off the pig!

by proffr@fuckmicrosoft.com

4:16pm Thu May 24 '01

Cyberterrorist and nacotrafficker offers 15 feet of pure white snow for the head of george walker bush.COD.asap



add your own comments





la indy also censors stories (english)

by manny boy 1:33pm Fri May 25 '01





To: matt mattdw@iprimus.com.au>

Subject: julia letter



Who wrote JR (english)

by myself

1:37pm Thu May 24 '01

address: www.fuckmicrosoft.com mattdw@iprimus.com

Read the letter and post at LA please,Icouldnt get it up!

Dear julia roberts



Im writing to ask you for 2 million dollars to help save the forests where



orang outangs live.The entire amount will be used specifically for that fight.



Also please warn tom cruise and john travolta they are in great dane.



Monies are being raised in cyberspace(and anyplace)to take them away



from the facist scientologist crowd.Thanks for your time,matt taylor



on behalf of soft drill.6/59 baynton st.kyneton.3444 ph 0417 531 548



ps,I need an extra mill for clean water softdrillingTIA

I have a feeling that Viola/Barbara/Rose is actually Gloria Matta Tuchman, the "Hispanic" nut case who bleaches her hair blonde and refuses to speak anything but English. She sees that the whites are controlling this country through internalized racism, and instead of working to change the racist power structure, instead of stopping to think about the justness of some laws, she sells out her own heritage by becoming more racist than most whites so as to gain acceptance from the white racists, power, and fame.

I wonder how many times Gloria Matta Tuchman has been told by the racists she chooses to socialize with, "You're not like most Mexicans."

CCIR does not tolerate religous discussion especially if it means that they are wrong.

From my experience they some of the most fanatical racist

xenophobes I have ever seen.

For the record I have known nazi skinheads.

The CCIR xenophobic anti -immigrationist's are just as bad or worse then Nazi skinheads.

Don't let their lie of being patriots mask the fact that they

are hateful fearful bigots.

This is America! Not Mexico yet! And we have certain right

in the United States, and one of them is freedom of Speech!

I am not a recent immigrant, but my family was left here in

the Southwest after the Americans won the War with Mexico.

I am very lucky to have been born an American with ancestors

from way back! If you don't like freedom of speech, go

back where you came from and change you Country, don't change our Country. Illegal immigration is a crime.

Greeting! You are very welcome honey! :)

Whatever was posted that was deleted was not from me.

Whatever was posted that was deleted was not from me.

That is your problem, race, race, race, American patriots

are of every race, not only white. And if Mecha is so cool

why did they not give a damn about one of their own RAZA?

www.mayorno.com

Check out Mecha's intolerence!

How chickens*#t!

To say this of one of our own. A good guy too!

Now I know they are bigots of the highest order:

Here is the post they banned nme for:

God ha spoken to me and he has said that you are wrong to hate your brothers. The Mexican people are my creation just as you are.

He who spoke death threats Ronlad J. Brown will have to give an accounting of his heart and his motives when the day comes.

So give up the fear and hatred and pray for unity and peace and work for a classless racism free open society without arbitrary borders.

You are out of line preaching religion there, not because

people there don't believe in God, but because we have

immigration laws in the United States and we have a right

to enforce our laws. We are a Sovereign Nation!

Post at a religious board if you want to preach religion.

IF my religion influences my opinion on immigration than I can express how it influences my views.

What's the matter aren't you "patriotic" enough to allow people the freedom of speech. Or are you just afraid of the truth.

I personally don't care if you post religious subjects,

but it is not my board, so why blame me? I do know that

the subject of that board is immigration, does religion

play a part in that subject? If that is true, why are so

many illegal immigrants committing so many crimes here in

the U.S.? Because they are holy? Why don't you preach

your religious views to the murderers,gang-bangers,thiefs and

child molesters that enter illegally into our Country.

That is, if you are so concerned about God.

What I like best about the CCIR bloc is that they always try to explain how the recent Asian/Latino migration is threatening to ruin this country and also how it is much different from the immigration of the last century. In their illogical arguments about the inability of Mexicans to assimilate into this country, the CCIR bloc never realize that they are using the same arguments that were used against Germans by Benjamin Franklin, the Dutch by Madison, and the Irish by English. And its also hilarious to see their "we're only against illegal immigration" argument. As if this statement absolves them of any racism based on the fact that they state their opposition against a crime. I've been to their meetings before and all it is is a bunch of middle aged "white" people fearful that the life they once knew is disappearing. And what is that life? The great '50's, when queers stayed in the closet, progressives were thrown into jail, those darkies and wetbacks stayed in the bad side of town and the orientals did not exist. Their halcyon world is one when segregation and discrimation ruled.

CCIR and I are against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, I personally

do not give a damn what race enters the United States as

long as they do it LEGALLY! What gives people south of the

border more rights to enter this Country? They are ruining

legal immigration for the entire world the way they break

our laws! And that is not fair to other people waiting to

enter legally. Thanks to their MASS illegal immigration,

I wonder how many good law-abiding new immigrants will not

be able to enter the U.S. thanks to these recent millions

of law-breakers? Are Mexicans more special than the rest

of the world? People in other parts of the world that would

like to legally enter the U.S. are even far worse off than

Mexicans or others sneaking over, and another thing..

Mexicans and Central Americans are also ruining their reputations in the eyes of Americans by breaking these laws.

But of course they could care less, as long as they grab

whatever they want correct? I do know that Barbara Coe has

said over and over that she does not care what color a person is as long as they enter legally. And I believe her!

Her friends and supporter are of all colors and races.

Including blacks,hispanics, Asians, and Coe herself is a

100% Native American. So stop with the same old B.S.

And if you want racism check this out: http://www.mayorno.com and click on "Mecha's idea of Tolerance."

Wow! Don't Chicano's love their people!

I was born in the 50's, and yes, I admit there were problems, but not like you are seeing today!

Have you seen L.A.10 most wanted? Take a good look.

In the 50's I lived in Los Angeles in a brand new home

and guess what? We were Latinos! The neighborhood was

clean and great and diverse! All ethnic groups living together! Didn't know that huh? And there were NO drugs,

or rapes, in my neighborhood, or kidnappings, and illegal immigration was UNHEARD Of! And another thing, EVERYONE in

that neighborhood spoke ENGLISH! My Grandparents and my

Parents spoke Spanish and ENGLISH, everyone of them!

I don't know of ONE person in my neighborhood that didn't

speak English. Like I have said for years, California

was a PARADISE! And this coming from a Latino women.

I can see why CCIR and all the Middle aged people complain,

We have every right to complain!

We look at all these illegals here and get sick at all the

problems they brought here with them.

Too bad this site has chosen to exhibit but one of my hundreds of posts at CCIR, and has isolated this particualar one completely from the context in which it was offered. Many other posts I have written are of a much more developed, concise, and detailed, as to my various stated positions. They are also much more consequential to the overall debate.

The post, as offered here, really has very little to offer either side of the debate, except to point out that I am a gun owner, know how to safely and effectively use them, and can foresee circumstances under which their defencsive use can arise, and be entirely justified.

No doubt can exist that, because the subject matter references to firearms, and their legal and legitimate ownership and application, this particular post was highlighted primarily for it's potentially inflamatory value, and to otherwise color the facts.

The fact is, I am a legal and responsible American citizen gun owner, though I'm not fanatically interested or absorbed by my interest in guns. I have many, many interests, guns being but one of them, and certainly not at the top of my list.

Out of hundreds of posts, there may be perhaps but two or three I have made that even reference firearms at all. Never is any illegal or non-defensive use of firearms advocated or even suggested. The contents of my various posts bear that out completely, and I challenge anyone to show otherwise.

When quotes are offered up out of context, as a microscopic piece of a much larger conversation, as this one obviously was, you, the reader, can be assured that whoever is offering it up to you as such, only has your further misinformation, and resulting manipulation of your perceptions and opinions in mind.

I would suggest instead that anyone interested please visit the board from which these excerpts were extracted, and read the contect in which that statement was made, and also read as many of my posts as you like, to see for yourselves that nowhere do I advocate ANY illegal act, nor do I advocate racism, or initiating violence towards anyone who has not done so first.

My core beliefs are that ALL people are equal, that race is a non-issue in the immigration debate, except to those who make it so for themselves and their own advantage, that different groups of people have different shared culture and value systems, that sovereign nations are both neccessary and desireable as a result of those differences, that each group has the inalienable right to live securely, and unmolested, within their own sovereign territory, and that each group has the right to exclude anyone they so wish, and for whatever reasons they hold to be sufficient under their own culture, values system, and laws which they themselves are entitled to create, and which reflect those values.

No government or nation has the right to prevent the legitimate and lawful departure of it's citizens from within it's jurisdiction. No nation has the right to encourage, or actively assist, it's own citizens, or those of a third country, in the systematic violation of the laws and sovereignty of a neighboring nation.

I believe in the right of effective self defense, both as an individual, and as a nation of individuals. No defensive action I have advocated was suggested to take place except within American territorial jurisdiction.

As you can see, I use my real name in all my posts to ishow my seriousness and my responsibilty in taking full ownership of everything and anything that I might offer up in the ongoing debate. So far, I have not seen another, in opposition, having the courage, or willing to take responsibility and full ownership for their own stated positions.

I do not hide or cower behind a phony nickname. I think this alone should say something of my basic integrity. Wouldn't you agree?

Too bad this site has chosen to exhibit but one of my hundreds of posts at CCIR, and has isolated this particualar one completely from the context in which it was offered. Many other posts I have written are of a much more developed, concise, and detailed, as to my various stated positions. They are also much more consequential to the overall debate.

The post, as offered here, really has very little to offer either side of the debate, except to point out that I am a gun owner, know how to safely and effectively use them, and can foresee circumstances under which their defencsive use can arise, and be entirely justified.

No doubt can exist that, because the subject matter references to firearms, and their legal and legitimate ownership and application, this particular post was highlighted primarily for it's potentially inflamatory value, and to otherwise color the facts.

The fact is, I am a legal and responsible American citizen gun owner, though I'm not fanatically interested or absorbed by my interest in guns. I have many, many interests, guns being but one of them, and certainly not at the top of my list.

Out of hundreds of posts, there may be perhaps but two or three I have made that even reference firearms at all. Never is any illegal or non-defensive use of firearms advocated or even suggested. The contents of my various posts bear that out completely, and I challenge anyone to show otherwise.

When quotes are offered up out of context, as a microscopic piece of a much larger conversation, as this one obviously was, you, the reader, can be assured that whoever is offering it up to you as such, only has your further misinformation, and resulting manipulation of your perceptions and opinions in mind.

I would suggest instead that anyone interested please visit the board from which these excerpts were extracted, and read the contect in which that statement was made, and also read as many of my posts as you like, to see for yourselves that nowhere do I advocate ANY illegal act, nor do I advocate racism, or initiating violence towards anyone who has not done so first.

My core beliefs are that ALL people are equal, that race is a non-issue in the immigration debate, except to those who make it so for themselves and their own advantage, that different groups of people have different shared culture and value systems, that sovereign nations are both neccessary and desireable as a result of those differences, that each group has the inalienable right to live securely, and unmolested, within their own sovereign territory, and that each group has the right to exclude anyone they so wish, and for whatever reasons they hold to be sufficient under their own culture, values system, and laws which they themselves are entitled to create, and which reflect those values.

No government or nation has the right to prevent the legitimate and lawful departure of it's citizens from within it's jurisdiction. No nation has the right to encourage, or actively assist, it's own citizens, or those of a third country, in the systematic violation of the laws and sovereignty of a neighboring nation.

I believe in the right of effective self defense, both as an individual, and as a nation of individuals. No defensive action I have advocated was suggested to take place except within American territorial jurisdiction.

As you can see, I use my real name in all my posts to ishow my seriousness and my responsibilty in taking full ownership of everything and anything that I might offer up in the ongoing debate. So far, I have not seen another, in opposition, having the courage, or willing to take responsibility and full ownership for their own stated positions.

I do not hide or cower behind a phony nickname. I think this alone should say something of my basic integrity. Wouldn't you agree?

Of course your comment was printed out of context, illegal

alien supporters do this Most of the time. This is also what

the Nazi's did. But they don't have a leg to stand on due

to supporting an illegal act which is what illegal immigration is all about! Americans are banding together to

fight for our Country and that is what CCIR, the VCT (Voices

of CITIZENS (all colors) Together, and other similiar groups

are all about. TRUE AMERICANS WAKE UP!

www.americanpatrol.com

www.ccir.net

Join us!

www.mayorno.com

Some of the posts here are intentionally inflamatory. At first, this can be seen as unfortunate, but upon consideration, we can see some usefulness such open discussion provides.

My simple response to the "immigration" treatise: how many non-immigrants survive on this continent. The next phase of civilization's development will honestly and plainly talk about the genocide which occurred during European's "Manifest Destiny". The First People's did not live in a Utopia prior to European colonialization, but this is no excuse for the destruction they faced.

We must move forward to see one another as first human, and realize that together as a race there are many challenges facing us from environmental to economic. A plea for change, tolerance, and patience to move onward as one.

Do a little web search on the phrase or a similar configuration of terms, and you'll soon be back preaching from your CCIR pulpit in no time.

Next time avoid the religious rhetoric and instead quote the Blessed Anglo Founding Fathers or the Great Almighty Dollar, and then you will be safely within the range of CCIR religious tolerance.

They wast their precious time on earth worrying about things that don't matter!

FYI

thanks for the info

To: matt mattdw@iprimus.com.au>

Subject: la voz de aztlan

Organization: Aztlan Internet Services

address: 13987 Summit Drive

Whittier, CA 90602 US

Admin contact: Carreon, Hector

email: Impacto@MAIL.SERVE.COM

phone: 562 6934545

fax:

Tech contact: Hostmaster, HOSTEX

email: hostmaster@HOSTEX.NET

phone:

fax: - +370-2-732657

Nameservers: ns1.hostex.net

ns3.hostex.net

This crowd are nazis.Not neo-nazis,real live brownshits.

I am all for tolerance and goodwill, but, we do have immigration laws in this Country that many feel should be

respected, and I am one of these persons that feels we should repect these just laws. I personally would never

think of entering another Country without entering legally.

Would I stuff one ton of drugs or

24 illegal immigrants in back of a truck and set out to Mexico or Canada?

Absolutely not! I have too much respect for myself and for

Mexico or Canada to pull that type of stupidity for the sake of making

big bucks! Not only would I be endangering the lives of innocent people, but I would not have much respect for

my own life. When Americans object to this type of lawlessness, for some strange reason we are regarded as

racists! How absurd.

Once again illegal aliens and their supporters show Americans what Mexico and other communist Governments are

all about. The CCIR site have been shut down by someone

using this site.

We in the United States are now seeing what Mexico and

their Communist supporters are all about. DO YOU WANT THIS

IN THIS COUNTRY, WELL YOU ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET IT,

AS LONG AS THESE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CONTINUE TO INVADE THIS

COUNTRY, and continue having their communist POCHOS!

Americans join CCIR in support of the United States, or

you will have no Country in the future.

DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS!

I'm not convinced that this Rose person is a woman, man, or human. I'm not

convinced that this person has a job, considering that he/she/it seems to have

all the time in the world to post jibberish on the imc and respond to every

comment. CCIR are a bunch of puros pendejos who can't deal with change.

No matter, those 50 year olds and their vendida/o supporters will be dying

pretty soon and we can forget about them like they forgot about the murder

and genocide of indigenous people, the original Mexican settlers of the

Southwest US, and so on. If Americans think they have a right to sovereign

borders then they need to tell their coke-dealing president, government, and

corporate institutions to stop crossing their own borders into other countries

where their capital and military ruin foreign economies and societies. If these

idiots want to get religious, then they need to understand that America is

the beast, referred to ages ago in Judeo-Christian tradition, referring to the

Roman Empire back then, and America now. CCIR will die an embarrising death.

There's nothing more pathetic than tired old racists of any color, but of course when

you are such a racist against even your own people you lose your color and turn

into a ghost or spook.

Don't blame us Mexicans. Blame your devil-worshipping ancestors who murdered

Mexicans and indigenous people years ago and now your bad karma is coming back.

I think your children can deal with it (they love latinos and latino culture). But what

about YOU. Your whiteness is an anachronism.

For Mexicans, Latinos, and most importantly INDIGENOUS PEOPLE (the real native

people, not the poseurs from europe)...

WE WILL BE HERE FOREVER, even after your society and people fade away and

become part of us...

SO GET OVER IT...

--in the name of ometeotl

So many fools to choose from.

*Rose,* your sheer idiocy speaks for itself.

On the other hand the *kill these Aztlan people* post would have won the prize for sheer mindlessness, if it had been the last word.

But then the Aztlan moron at the end here almost makes their argument for them!

Really a three-way tie, I suppose, so *congratulations* to all of you.

You don't have to be a racist to be a Nazi fuck. Your mindless nationalism gives you credentials enough. You spew your right wing rhetoric when we get your attention. You've mistaken the IMC for the Republican Convention.

I could give a Rat's ass what you jerks think. We and our

ancestors Made this Country great and now you little assholes feel that just because your asshole parents sneaked

in that you are now HOTSHIT! Don't forget where you came

from. Without the U.S. you would still be licking donkey

ass! And enjoying it! UP YOURS!

There will be a WAR you know? Our people (Underground)

are getting ready. Are you?

Maybe you should choose the sign that say the road to

MEXICO?

FUCK YOU ROSE... GET THE FUCK OUT OF OUR SITE

The CCIR website and discussion group is alive and well, and continues to be dedicated to speaking out on both facts and principles that surround U.S. sovereignty and immigration issues.

Reports of the death of the website and discussion group, through "flooding" and other internet sabotage, have been greatly exagerated. If you do not believe it, go visit CCIR, and see the lie for your self.

CCIR advocates the right of ALL nations to exist as sovereign and democratic entities. The people of ANY sovereign nation have the inalienable right to determine, by and for themselves, democratically, their own internal national laws and policies, including the right to establish policies controlling immigration, or not, as they may see fit.

Long live national sovereignty, democracy, and self-determination.

Long live CCIR in defending both.

After all, like us nice folks at CCIR, Hitler believed in ABSOLUTE National Sovereignty above all else. Works out swell doesn't it?

So what if the author of Prop 187 was paid for two years from the neo-Nazi foundation called the Pioneer Fund...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

**Alan Nelson of FAIR, co-author of Prop 187, was paid with the neo-Nazi Pioneer Fund money while he wrote it.**

> Alan Nelson. Nelson is one of the authors of

> Prop. 187 and was a driving force behind the

> measure. During the almost two-year "lead-up"

> to passage of the measure, Nelson was occupied

> almost full-time on work connected to the

> initiative. The question is, who paid him

> during this time? - an organization calling

> itself FAIR (Federation for American

> Immigration Reform). And where did FAIR get its

> income? - from the Pioneer Fund!11 To say under

> such circumstances, then, that the Pioneer Fund

> did not help bankroll Prop. 187 is disingenuous

> at best, and somewhat deceitful at worst. It's

> precisely this kind of dissembling and

> duplicity that contributes so greatly to the

> murky and even sinister aura which surrounds

> the activities of the Fund.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

excertps from a reprt written By S. R. Shearer:

THE PIONEER FUND:

THE NAZI CONNECTION

The Pioneer Fund was established as a charitable trust on February 27, 1937 in New York City. Harry H. Laughlin, Frederick Osborn and textile magnate Wickliffe Draper were the principle founders.1 The Fund's stated purpose was to "improve the character of the American people" by encouraging the procreation of descendants of "white persons" and to provide aid in conducting research on "race betterment with special reference to the people of the United States."2 The current president of the Pioneer Fund is a shadowy figure named Harry F. Weyher, a financier and corporate lawyer who eschews interviews and runs the Fund without pay or staff from his offices in New York; he is assisted in his work by four other "Trustees" - one of whom has been Tom Ellis, a close associate of Pat Robertson and Tim LaHaye in the Council on National Policy (CNP), the principle coordinating agency in bringing together various members of the religious right with the business right and the political right. All serve without pay and staff.

The Pioneer Fund has assets of about -million and gives away most of its -million in annual income to a dozen or more scholars from Northern Ireland to California who study IQ and genetics. The Pioneer Fund supported a significant portion of the research cited in the recent best-selling book on race and intelligence, The Bell Curve, by Richard J. Herrnstein, a Harvard University psychologist who died in September 1994, and Charles Murray, a political scientist at the American Enterprise Institute. In the billion dollar world of philanthropy, the money doled out by the Pioneer Fund may seem paltry. But the numbers don't tell the real story of the Fund's influence. "The Pioneer Fund has been able to direct its resources like a laser-beam," says one critic, Barry Mehler, a historian at Ferris State University who has been gathering information on it since the 1970s. "I credit the Fund for being a major factor in the present resurgence of the biological-determinism movement - a factor that is far out of proportion to the amount of funds it has."3

All of the men connected to the estab-lishment of the Fund were admirers of Adolf Hitler. They believed unequivocally in white superiority and held that it (i.e., white supremacy) derived from "the evolutionary process." They were motivated to establish the Fund by what they considered to be the overwhelming "success" of the Nazi eugenics policy6 - a startling defamation, but one which is easily documented. Take Harry Laughlin, the Fund's most energetic early personality, for example: in May 1936, Dr. Carl Schneider, a professor of "racial hygiene" at the University of Heidelberg and dean of the school's faculty of medicine (and who, incidentally, also served as a "scientific adviser" for the extermination of handicapped people in Germany) offered Laughlin an honorary degree of "Doctor of Medicine." Laughlin was deeply moved; he enthusiastically replied, "I stand ready to accept this very high honor. Its bestowal will give me particular gratification ... To me this honor will be ... valued because it comes from a nation which for many centuries nurtured the human seed stock which later founded my own country and thus gave basic character to our present lives and institutions."7

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The previous response t omypost only seeks to call into question a single entity, one of many, that support various organization, possibly including F.A.I.R. and C.C.I.R.

The person posting this bellythunder drivel fails time and again to plainly and openly state his own position, in opposition to what I have offered up very clearly myself, as being opposed to both the sovereignty of ALL nations, and the right of citizen inhabitants of such sovereign nations to democratically govern their own internal affairs, including the establishment of immigration policies, according to their own values and national priorities.

While he points to Hitler and the Nazis as being nationalists, rabidly supporting sovereignty for Germany and it's citizens, he fails to make the critical distinction, that I support the sovereignty of ALL nations, whereas Nazi Germany, and imperial Japan obviously did not.

That IS a rather critical distinction, to say the least.

Choosing to intentionally ignore such important distinctions, and failing to clearly state his own position, his motivation to smear, misdirect, and otherwise misinform the readers of his posts, is a clear indication of what this is really all about. It is about ulterior motives and agendas, and about discrediting those who would dare stand in the way, even to the extent of lying to, or otherwise attmepting to deceive his readers, rather than by allowing the reader to judge what was said BY what was actually said, instead of by what he would have you believe was said.

I believe he vastly underestimates the abilty of his audience to see right through that smokescreen. As a serious reader, one ought to feel justifiably abused and insulted by such attempted manipulations.

Chingado! You all got some issues. No wonder your children are killing

each other in the suburbs.

I only represent the invisible people that you ignore or persecute as

criminals and immigrants, despite the fact that myself and my people

clean your houses, mow your lawns, watch your children, cook your food

serve your every need and buy your shit, etc.

You are some selfish motherfuckers, Americans left and right.

If my consciousness of the history of the Americas makes me a "nazi"

then you all need to go back and read your history (europe, WWII)

because obviously you didn't learn shit. And I do not represent the

middle class cointepro at Voz de Miedra.

The generous, informed people of the IMC already know who CCIR is and

what they're really about. The impunity of these xenophobes is a sin and

will garnish its own final judgement.

El avaro es capaz de todo lo malo The avaricious person is capable of everything evil....

Cade quien construye su propio destino... Each person builds his own destiny...

The fact that FAIR, Prop 187 and today's anti-immigration movement was spawned by white supremecists and funded by the neo-Nazi Pioneer Fund is not a problem?

How about the fact that many of these same crypto-nazis remain in the leadership of this movement you follow? It doesn't bother you that the propaganda emanating from FAIR is carried out by an insular and discredited clique of race-superiority theorists in pseudo-academia and funded by a silent cadre of neo-fascists at the Pioneer Fund who have maintained a continuity of purpose directly traceable to the Third Reich and documented in several in-depth studies of right wing Foundation giving?

If you are so thoroughly committed to the party line that you can't see even just a hint of a problem there, that's really sad.

To you who have Hispanics roots and are renegade of it:

you think you was rigth when you wrote those all things about inmigrant or mexicans ,no, you wrong and in this way betray your gente , and the same way that you did it ,like that you 'll betrayed by those who you sympatise (white people) and may be you don't know, but that people discrimine and segregate you too you sympatize with them, but they dont sympatize you.

that's messed up how they are going to kill la raza. They come to the U.S.A because of the American dream and they risk their lives everyday and because of what?? to get critized and belittled by others. How are people going to celebrate the killings of these Mexicans??? Who do they think they are? It pisses me off that people can be so ignorant. All of my friends are Mexican and I have Mexicans in my family. This is not a joke. I don't think that it is fair that Americans can go to Mexico and come back without any problems but Mexicans can't do the same.... Americans don't need green cards so why should Mexicans need them... I think that people need to quit being assholes.. becuause paybackz are a bitch and u always get it back in return.. If it wasn't for Mexicans we wouldn't be eating all the foods we have now.. because noone else would do the jobs they do for the little bit of money so people should be grateful...

Kate,

Americans don’t need green cards because we are citizens. Green cards are for non -citizens. It’s a permit to stay in US to work and live. It should be obvious that citizens with passports or proof of citizenship don’t need it. A little research please.

US citizens can go in and out of Mexico freely because very few Americans stay in Mexico and work illegally. By the way, on Mexico’s southern border, where many Central Americans cross over illegally to take jobs in Mexico, the Mexican government has deployed its Army. Yes, unlike the US, Mexico uses its Army to police its borders.

There is a legal way for Mexicans to enter the US just as there is for Irish, Egyptian and everyone else. However, these are harder to get. One problem with illegal workers is that it restricts the number of legal workers and immigrants permitted into the US.

Your statement on low cost labor is the key issue. I prefer to call it exploitative labor. It is not try however, that Americans won't do this work. We just won't - or can't afford to - do this work for the exploitative wages that illegals get. In NYC where the sanitation department is a tight civil service union, only legal residents can apply and application for garbage men positions was so high that a lottery to merely apply was held. Its the same work - picking up garbage that illegals may be doing elsewhere but the wages are not exploitative. So, Americans will do this work but not for the exploitative wages of illegals.

For this reason Progressives should strongly oppose illegal immigration. These I-Is are ‘allowed’ in because of big business influence – they want the cheap exploitative wages. Stop illegal immigration, open a sane and liberal immigration and guest worker policy and stop this wage exploitative. By the way, an indication of business’ role in encouraging illegals is the fact that companies that hire illegals rarely get a strong punishment.

I freely admit that these arguments about non-exploitative wages collapse if you, Kate, are arguing for free, open and unfettered immigration rules on a moral basis – in other words totally open borders. There is a strong moral argument for this. However, the reality of it is harsh. Jimmie Carter, a big supporter of the Carribean Initiative indicated that the US could empty the carribean in a week. To do so would mean the American people, including you Kate, accepting a radically changed lifestyle. I’m still pondering this.

I was once an immigrant. We come to the US for a better life. Not all of us are bad people. There is so much suffering in different parts of Mexico. Small children suffer from starvation or from cold weather. It is cold hearted to actually wish gun shot wounds on someone. May you realize your stupidity and cod heartedness

I am a third generation 'Mexican-American' and am frankly embarrassed by the liberalism and arrognace of mexicans in this state. WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS!!!!! Can't you see what's happening? Do you really want this state or any other state to become Mexico. That is the main reason why people leave Mexico, becuase it's not. If we don't do somethign soon we will inherit all of Mexico's problems. Problems like corruption, immense poverty and the rest. Everyone who is here is allowed to stay but that's it. NO MORE ILLEGALS!!!!!! Mexicans who have been here need to do something about it. Don't use racism or bigotry as an excuse to defend yourselves. We are all Americans and need to unite agaisnt illegal immigration to protect the legacy of America.

Chingado! You all got some issues. No wonder your children are killing each other in the suburbs.

Look around, Pedro. Most street gangs are made up of browns and blacks.

I only represent the invisible people that you ignore or persecute as criminals and immigrants, despite the fact that myself and my people clean your houses, mow your lawns, watch your children, cook your food serve your every need and buy your shit, etc.

You're not doing us any favors. Illegals also costs US taxpayers 68 billion a year in welfare and law enforcement, and the money illegals make (15 billion per year) is sent back to relatives in mexico.

You are some selfish motherfuckers, Americans left and right.

The flea calls the dog selfish. What a laff. It's not OUR fault your country of origin is a shithole.

Even more pathetic is mexico itself is rich in oil and other natural resources. What a shame its population is poor and ignorant and all its natural wealth is nationalized, which is what the nazimedia clowns want for America.

Rather than overthrowing your own corrupt SOCIALIST government, you sneak over here and try to duplicate the same turd-world slums you ran away from. Why? You refuse to learn English but have the cohones to demand free everything.

Deportation is the answer.

Want to bet? We have made quite sure that the governments from these shit hole countries have stayed that way to satisfy our corporate employers. If they try to reform we send in the dogs.

Poor little fool.

Everywhere American corporations go they improve the lives of thousands, even millions of people. It's not the fault of the corporates that some countries suffer under lousy, corrupt political systems.

>> It's not the fault of the corporates that some countries suffer under lousy, corrupt political systems.
Tell that to the death squads we set up in El Salvador, Honduras, Chile, Argentina, Columbia etc. Have you been smoking your old socks or are you really that stupid? After reading your posts it must be the latter.

Thanks for showing to the rest of the world how ignorant some people are when it comes to illegal immigrants.

Americans need Mexicans as much as Mexicans need Americans. Mexicans are not the only immigrants in the States. Thats what makes this country so unique, cause we are all immigrants......yes even you!!

We don't come here to take your jobs neither, we come here to take the jobs that you don't want, and that we with honor take them. Remember, that we all have the right to live, not as Mexicans or Americans but as Humans!!

SEndy ...22

Thanks for showing to the rest of the world how ignorant some people are when it comes to illegal immigrants.

Americans need Mexicans as much as Mexicans need Americans. Mexicans are not the only immigrants in the States. Thats what makes this country so unique, cause we are all immigrants......yes even you!!

We don't come here to take your jobs neither, we come here to take the jobs that you don't want, and that we with honor take them. Remember, that we all have the right to live, not as Mexicans or Americans but as Humans!!

SEndy ...22

Thanks for showing to the rest of the world how ignorant some people are when it comes to illegal immigrants.

---If it's "ignorant" to defend one's borders from invaders with no legal right to be here, then hell yes, I'm "ignorant."

Americans need Mexicans as much as Mexicans need Americans.

----The USA would survive if all Mexicans disappeared overnight. And if all Americans vanished, I doubt Mexico could do anything useful with the country left behind, except expand the territory of Power Rangers pinatas and piss in the streets.

Mexicans are not the only immigrants in the States.

----No, but they make up the largest population of illegals, which drain this country.

Thats what makes this country so unique, cause we are all immigrants......yes even you!!

---Wrong. I was born in the USA, which means automatic citizenship. My forefathers came here legally, through Ellis Island. They also learned to speak English and dropped their old country ways as fast as possible. Unlike Mexcians.

We don't come here to take your jobs neither, we come here to take the jobs that you don't want, and that we with honor take them.

----How long is this nonsensical argument going to continue? We have something called the free market here. If there were no illegals, legal immigrants would take those jobs, and if there were NO more immigrants, the pay of those jobs would go up until someone else took them. I'd gladly pay for a head of lettuce if it meant not losing 68 billion a year to foreign criminals.

Remember, that we all have the right to live, not as Mexicans or Americans but as Humans!!

---Yes, but yno one has the right to live on someone else's land and use their resources without permission and paying just compensation.

---INVADERS ARE NEVER WELCOME, EXCEPT BY PARASITE LIBERALS LOOKING TO KEEP THE WELFARE STATE HUGE.